Transcript/559: Noam Man's Land

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N-N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight

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Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

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Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray.

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I have great respect for Knowledgefight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.

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Knowledgefight Dan and Jordan, Knowledgefight.

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Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle Riddle

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Andy Enchanze, Andy Enchanze, stop it, Andy Enchanze, Andy Enchanze, it's time to pray.

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Andy Enchanze, you're on the air thanks for holding.

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Hello Alex, I'm a first time caller, I'm a huge fan.

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I love your world!

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Knowledgefight N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight.com

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I love you.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan.

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I'm Jordan.

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We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.

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Oh, indeed we are, Dan.

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Jordan.

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Dan!

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Jordan.

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We are also masters of crushing a bit after several weeks of practicing.

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But I don't like you drawing attention to it.

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I know, but you did such a great job!

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Well, thanks.

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It was a perfect line read.

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I don't appreciate positive feedback.

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Fair enough.

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Well, what do you appreciate, Dan? Because my question is, what is your bright spot this week?

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Well, my bright spot, Jordan, we talked about how we should probably inform the good people about this.

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And my bright spot is, after four and a half years, I've decided to take a vacation.

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Yes, yep, yep. For the first time in a very long time.

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I mean, it's debatable. I guess I've taken a few days off here and there.

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Indeed.

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Staycations, if you will.

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Sure, sure.

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I went to visit my parents for a holiday.

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Right.

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Not quite a vacation.

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Not quite.

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We went to Austin to do a live show.

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Sure, that's definitely not a vacation. That's a work trip.

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Yeah.

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We got to fucking write it off on our taxes, Dan. It was a work trip.

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I don't really know how to relax. I'm not really good at that.

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But finally, we've decided to take a vacation.

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Indeed.

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So you and I and your partner are actually going together next week.

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Of course.

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We will be going to Hawaii for a week.

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Ah, visiting your homeland.

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Exactly.

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Yes.

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A big part of this is I've been meaning to take a trip back to my childhood home.

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Definitely.

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In Honolulu and see some of the sights, like Aliyolani Elementary School and go down to Waikiki Beach.

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Oh, yeah.

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You know, kick around the old haunts.

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Oh, yeah.

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I didn't have any old haunts. I was a child.

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But I have a lot of sort of vague memories and snapshots in my head that I'd like to experience as an adult.

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I like to try and fill in some of those gaps.

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And so I'm very excited to take this trip and hope I don't freak out from lack of working.

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Nah, it's going to be great. It's going to be great.

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It's going to be great.

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Sometimes you're going to stay in your hotel late at night by yourself staring up at the ceiling thinking,

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what if I were working right now? Wouldn't that be better?

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I don't doubt that will be the case.

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But also this is relevant because the next three episodes we're going to have to prepare in advance.

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Of course.

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Of taking off for vacation.

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So hopefully the schedule of release won't be affected at all by it.

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But you'll notice that they will be maybe, hey, let's say something happens in the world.

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We may not be aware of it.

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We may not know because we're in the past.

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Trump might rise back to power.

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And be a real bummer.

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And we will not know.

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I don't know. I think if anything super crazy happens, we'll probably break into a recording studio somewhere and be like,

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hey, we got to put out two hours now.

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It's an emergency.

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What if we had gone on vacation on like January 4th?

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We'd have episodes coming out and we wouldn't be aware that the Capitol had been stormed.

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Sure.

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It'd be very strange. That's what I'm saying.

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That would be strange.

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We're going to have to pre-record a few.

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And thank you in advance for that.

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Oh, indeed. Absolutely.

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How about you, Jordan? What's your bright spot?

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My bright spot, Dan, is at my partner's school.

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As you know, my partner is a teacher at school to be unnamed.

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But basically, their new principal started at the beginning of this year, or the school year.

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So last year.

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And she has proven herself to be a giant racist piece of shit.

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Like really, really bad.

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Good thing you're not naming this school.

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Yeah, to the point where all of the BIPOC staff and students have essentially just gone on fucking revolt.

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Wow.

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This shit is unsustainable.

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And so today, these kids organized a fucking sit-in and then later on a walkout.

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And my partner sent me a little clip of it.

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And the BIPOC students leading this shit are absolutely astonishing.

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At a certain point, all these kids are chanting, protect our teachers, protect our teachers.

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And I'm like weeping my balls off.

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Like these kids are incredible.

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Great.

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Like truly incredible and that's my bright spot.

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That's very inspirational.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, good on them.

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Yeah.

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So Jordan, today we have an interesting situation to get into.

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Because as I mentioned, we're going to be pre-recording some episodes.

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And that's going to make it more difficult to be in the present day keeping up with Alex.

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Of course, of course.

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So it had been my plan to stay in the past, in 2003 probably, for those episodes.

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Sure.

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And so I didn't want to do a 2003 episode here today.

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Right.

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And so I was like, all right, present day, let's see what Alex is going into.

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Let's do this.

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Look, Alex has been on vacation.

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Why don't we coordinate?

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He needs to let us know.

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We always have in the past.

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He needs to let us know.

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Every time we're gone, he's gone.

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This is infuriating.

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Yeah.

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I don't accept this whatsoever.

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Owen Schroyer's been hosting all this week.

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And I, look, I understand that the situation with Israel-Palestine is a big deal.

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I do understand that.

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I don't care what Owen Schroyer has to say about it.

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Oh, absolutely not.

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I'm interested in the Infowars position and exactly how this is a false flag and what have you.

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But I'm only going to take it from Alex.

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I'm not going to listen to an hour and a half Owen Schroyer to get a sense of it.

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I really don't need to hear Owen say what amounts to none of this is real.

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It's all Palestine actually attacking themselves.

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And even if Israel was committing genocide, I support that.

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That's what they would say.

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That's what he said.

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I'm not interested in hearing any of that nonsense from Owen.

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But there is an update I need to give you about the present day.

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Okay.

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There is a certain psy-op expert that's been subtly sneaking his way back onto the show.

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Get the fuck out of here!

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They cannot quit him!

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Alex has been out of town and he's been showing up with Owen.

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Yeah, so Steve Pachetic is creeping back and he's just flattering the shit out of Owen.

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I watched their interview and he's like, oh, you're the best.

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Of course.

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God damn it.

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These idiots can be tricked in the same way all the time.

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I also noticed that when I was watching this interview, I noticed that Steve was reading a lot.

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He's clearly looking down at something.

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So when he's rattling off a lot of these details and stuff, a lot of it is probably prepared.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I feel like somehow we're thinking of this as a negative thing.

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But being a guest and being by far more prepared than anything that your host has ever done seems like a positive to me.

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I don't disagree and I support preparation.

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I just think that the way that Steve uses specifics and things like that is to create the impression of familiarity.

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Sure.

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He creates the impression of familiarity with the staff of various administrations and stuff like that in a way that it would be kind of not as impressive that he knows people's names if it's on a sheet of paper in front of him.

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True.

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So that kind of preparation kind of cuts through what he's trying to use his appearance and the way he's trying to present himself.

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And rattling off details gives him the appearance of having a recall that is astonishing.

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Yes.

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How can one man possibly pull all of these things off his ass?

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How can he be making up all of this?

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Exactly.

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And I don't know.

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There was an interesting thing too that for years Steve wouldn't appear on video.

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He would only be on the phone and there would be a picture of him from when he was much younger.

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Sure.

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With a weird mustache.

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Yeah, he should go back to that.

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Yeah, but I wonder if that was because back in those times he had a bunch of files in front of him and he didn't want to be on video.

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That's possible.

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I wonder about that and I never really thought about that because I never really watched too closely.

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But his eyes were definitely reading.

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I would also accept it wasn't until the pandemic that he insisted that some child in his neighborhood go set up Zoom for him so he can accurately...

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I don't know.

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I know that his wife is on tech detail.

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Oh, okay.

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If you do go to his YouTube channel you can see her pressing the start and stop buttons sometimes.

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That is very pretty and cute.

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It is.

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Unfortunately.

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It's unfortunately humanizing of a real weirdo.

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Yes, it's infuriating.

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Yeah.

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But it's very cute.

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So I guess what that leaves us with is possibly, I mean, I don't know.

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I don't know if Alex will be back in time for us to record anything in the present day before our trip.

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Right.

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So we may be getting back to Alex in the present day when we get back.

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Yeah.

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But it also put me in a bind of not really knowing exactly where to go for this episode.

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Luckily, I found something and we'll get to it after we say hello to some wonks.

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Nice.

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Nicely done.

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So first, Sheila B, the Garden Queen.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Sheila.

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Thank you.

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Next, Kimmy from Seattle.

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This is a shout out and a wonk title going to you.

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I appreciate you getting round the world into the show.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Kimmy.

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Next, Uncle Patches, CPA.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Uncle Patches.

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Thank you.

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Next, Branigan.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much.

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Next, Down With the Tyrant King Jared.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Next, Sasha.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Sasha.

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Thank you.

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Next, near free advertising for God's eternal wrath.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much.

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Et cetera.

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Now, Jordan.

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We had to do a little bit of business here and that is, you know, sometimes you gotta

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take it on the chin.

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Sure, sure.

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Sometimes, you know, you just gotta take that punch as it comes.

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Naturally.

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You realize that you have messed up.

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Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

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What is a plan but God laughing at you?

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That's true.

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Or something?

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How does that work?

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God laughs at man that makes plans?

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No, man plans while God laughs.

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That's what it is.

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Yeah.

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You got it.

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So anyway.

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What a shitty God who's gonna laugh at anybody for planning.

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No, but it's like that, hahaha, oh, I love this guy so much.

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Isn't it cute that he's planning?

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Yeah, maybe give him a better plan.

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It's paternal.

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Don't laugh at him.

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That's laughing at a homeless person.

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God is laughing at a houseless person and it's fucking offensive.

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Let's do it.

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I'm offended by God.

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Let's take God's house.

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I think we should.

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Anyway, my point is that we have a couple of April birthdays.

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I might have missed a couple of April birthdays.

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Don't worry about it.

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So uh, Katie, happy birthday back in April.

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Happy birthday.

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This is from your husband, Nodbard, he wants to wish you a happy birthday, I hope you had

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a great birthday.

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I do too.

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Also I fucked up on this one, Tanya, happy birthday back in April.

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Happy birthday Tanya.

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That's totally on me, I need to do a better job of managing inboxes.

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Nah, you're doing great.

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Now, not all is trouble because we also have a presentation.

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Hey, see, there we go.

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This is coming from Savannah.

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Savannah wanted me to give a shout out to their spouse Shoshana and wish Shoshana a

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happy birthday.

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So happy birthday.

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Happy birthday Shoshana.

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Hope you're having a great one out there.

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Perfect.

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Now Jordan, we couldn't do the past.

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We couldn't do the present.

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No.

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We can do the middle past?

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I felt like that might be too confusing.

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We had to do a bottle episode.

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We gotta do a bottle episode.

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Jim Baker still bums me out, I can't quite go back to that well.

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Project Camelot, I think she got kicked off YouTube and now is back to a membership model

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and so I don't know about the ethics of using-

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Once again.

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Yeah, I'm back to being on shaky ground.

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Sure, sure.

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And so that leaves us in a bit of a pickle.

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We need a bottle episode.

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Gotta do something.

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I was like, is there anything that I've been meaning to do-

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Review that bottle episode of Breaking Bad that everybody loves so much about the fly?

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Yeah.

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No.

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I have some thoughts.

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Okay.

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But no, that's not what we're doing here today.

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There is something that listeners have constantly been like, did you ever do that?

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And we hadn't.

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Oh.

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Welcome back my friends.

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The second hour of the broadcast.

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We're going to be joined by Noam Chomsky coming up here in just a couple minutes.

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Yeah, that's right.

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The Noam Chomsky interview.

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That's right.

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What are we doing?

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Yes.

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I feel so weird about this.

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In 2001, pre-9-11, Noam Chomsky appeared on InfoWars.

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Sure.

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The Alex Jones program.

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Noam Chomsky.

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The linguist.

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Not the very short, shows up in your house in the middle of the night, makes you cookies?

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Noam with a G.

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Yes.

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No.

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No.

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That is not-

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Okay.

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It is not Gnome Chomsky.

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All right.

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The noted intellectual.

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Okay.

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This actually is one of the more interesting interviews that I've ever heard on InfoWars.

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For a couple reasons.

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One, this is pre-9-11 Alex Jones.

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Sure.

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He doesn't have the cache of predicting 9-11 yet.

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I also think that he doesn't have nearly as much of the market share.

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He doesn't have as much notoriety.

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I don't think that people who might be invited to be on his show know much about him.

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True.

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So, you have that.

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I take it Gnome does not know that Alex is fighting the literal devil.

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I don't know if Alex knows that.

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We haven't established that.

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At what point he became aware that he was up against fields above.

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I think earliest days in his career, a lot of it was based around making big publicity

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stunts about trying to get the church, the Branch Davidians rebuilt.

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Sure.

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He had some notoriety on a regional basis from that, but if you look at the early parts

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of his career where he really hit the noss, as it were, in the fast and furious terms,

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that's got to be all around 9-11 conspiracies.

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This is before that.

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Also, another thing that's really weird is that they agree about a lot of stuff.

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Of course.

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Now, do they actually?

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No, of course they do.

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Alex and Gnome, best buds.

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They agree about a lot of the surface level of things, but when you get down to what their

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beliefs are based on, there's a little bit of difference, and this interview could have

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been amazing, and it could have been great, and it is not.

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It ends very poorly.

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Oh, no.

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Does it end in a fight?

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I'll let you decide.

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Okay.

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All right.

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So, Alex reads a little bit of a bio, and he's a professor of linguists, linguistics.

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And he's written books like Manufacturing, Consent, and Excellent Video, also titled

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Manufacturing Consent, and it goes into how they stage things, how they will have a supposed

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debate on television, but the people debating are actually on the same side.

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They're just debating the exact implementation by just a few degrees, giving you the psychological

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illusion there's really some type of difference, so that in your mind, you're going to fall

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in supposedly either phony camp being steered in the direction they wish.

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Now, that's how I put it.

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Chomsky does it in a little bit more sophisticated fashion.

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But they do this all the time.

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Manufacturing Consent is about the media, but it's not necessarily about staging events

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or false flags or that kind of stuff, the way Alex is kind of leading it and presenting

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that.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The general thesis of Chomsky's book, largely co-written by Edward Herman, is that the media

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engages in self-censoring of ideas that are opposed to the interests of the elite corporations

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in such a way that encourages acceptance of the policies being put in place by the government,

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which support those interests, often to the detriment of what's in the interest of normal

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people.

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It's more complicated than even what I'm presenting, but that's a large part of what Chomsky and

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Herman called the propaganda model.

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It doesn't rely on coercion to operate, rather it's a product of just market forces.

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There's a structural conflict of interest in how the media is organized that creates

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a disconnect between conveying all of the information that's relevant to the interests

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of the upper upper classes and those of everyone else.

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This is the general 30,000 foot view of the manufacturing concept.

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Yeah, if the media were capable of reporting correctly they would be reporting every single

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day that we should do everything we can to destroy their billionaire owners, otherwise

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their entire journalism is pointless.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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I don't think I would be qualified to give a full breakdown of the ideas in that text,

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but I can tell you that I'm also certain that Alex has not read it.

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The propaganda model includes five filters, which are theorized as being determinative

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about whether certain news is represented in the larger media.

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The first four are ownership, funding, sources, and flak.

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Alex could probably find agreement on those four, but he absolutely could not accept the

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fifth, which is anti-communism.

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Oh!

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Boom!

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We got a strikeout!

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Somehow it's a one-pitch strikeout!

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Oh, difficult!

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Anti-communism was the preferred media fear outlet in the time that the book was first

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published.

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During the Cold War the mass- Never went out of style, buddy.

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Never went out of style!

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During the Cold War the mass media wasn't going to give a serious chance to an outlet

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that went at odds with the prevailing narrative, which was to be afraid of the commies.

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In more recent times Chomsky has recontextualized this filter to update it to the times, where

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the war on terror is more relevant as a media filter after 9-11 than anti-communism.

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Yeah, of course.

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Alex could probably agree that large portions of the media have the same opinion on big

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issues like the war on terror, and that possibly it was meant to scare people into accepting

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policies they wouldn't maybe otherwise, but he absolutely could never accept that anti-communist

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fervor during the Cold War was in any way part of that.

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Yeah, totally.

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His entire personality and worldview is based on that.

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Everything that is built is crumbled if you accept that.

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Yeah, so I think that's kind of interesting, because I think what happens is that Alex

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has a predetermined set of beliefs, and he's just decided that Chomsky backs those up.

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Yeah, or at least enough of them that he can make it look like he supports all of them.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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So Alex talks, before getting into the actual interview, more about his, this is 2001, so

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this is where he's at in terms of the similarities between the left and the right.

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They're the same.

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Sure.

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Democrat, Republican.

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Sure, sure, sure.

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And I would argue that this is an indication to me that it's always been very surface level.

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It's like Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative.

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Liberals, Conservatives, you look at what they do at the top, they're all the same people.

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The political left has secret police that wear black uniforms and ski masks.

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The political right has police that wear black uniforms and ski masks around the world.

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They just have the police.

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Centralized government, and they tell you to be in the middle of that system.

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More semantical deceptions.

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I think what's strange here is that, like, I could hear somebody saying, like, the left

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and the right's the same, they all wear black ski masks.

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Sure.

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And it being a metaphor.

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Yeah.

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And from Alex, I don't think it is.

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No, it's absolutely direct.

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I think it's literal.

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If he does not believe that they actually have secret police, then I don't know what

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anything is real anymore.

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I don't know what's true or what's false.

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That man believes everyone has secret police and ski masks.

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He believes that, like, uh...

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That's my foundational belief system.

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He believes that small corporations even have SWAT teams and stuff at this point.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It's very strange.

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I don't even want to know what army he thinks AT&T has.

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Huge.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, I just...

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I come away from clips like that with a feeling that, like, I don't know how in-depth any

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of this assessment of, like, the similarities between left and right are.

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Sure.

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Because I do think you can make a decent argument that there are similarities.

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Obviously, there are entwined interests.

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There are similar priorities in some ways, but there are also huge fucking differences.

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Maybe.

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And I don't understand how Alex never really gives voice to those differences.

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Because the...

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Or ignores them.

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Because the differences make it look like the people that he actually supports are bad.

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Oh, yeah, that's right.

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It is hard to be like, well, okay, there's one difference between Democrats and Republicans.

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Democrats do want people to eat food.

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I was kind of maybe being facetious when I said I don't know why.

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I realized that I didn't even know that I was being facetious.

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I was like, oh, I kind of get it.

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Anyway, here comes Chomsky into the debate.

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It's not a debate.

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Just a conversation.

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And they do have some agreement.

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And this is a little bit longer clip, but that's because Chomsky speaks in full sentences.

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Ooh, no.

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Dangerous.

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Dangerous.

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Alex lets him speak in full sentences?

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Oh, yeah.

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So this is a...

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This is where he learned his lesson right here.

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Two and a half minute clip here.

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Okay.

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I would call it almost a matrix-like system where 98% of people don't even know the real

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parameters of power that surround them.

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Phony paradigms and systems of phony left, right, with all the roads leading towards

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a centralized, highly controlled corporate bureaucracy.

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I agree with that.

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But I think the only thing I would add as a kind of a footnote is that the marginalization

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of the public that you're describing is quite purposeful and conscious, self-conscious.

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So especially through the 20th, actually it goes back to the founding of the country,

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but it's particularly in the 20th century, there has been a very self-conscious explicit

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effort.

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I mean, you don't have to make it, nothing speculative, because the leaders say so.

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Business leaders, intellectuals, academic social scientists and others say that it is

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important to keep the public out of things.

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It's important to ensure that the public remain what are called spectators, not participants.

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They're supposed to be directed to other concerns and not interfere with policy formation.

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That is a major phenomenon developed in the more democratic countries, in the United States

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and England particularly, through the 20th century.

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And the reason was very clear.

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By the early 20th century, it was becoming very difficult to control people by other

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means.

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The voting franchise was extending, labor unions were developing, women were demanding

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the vote.

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I mean, the countries, especially England and the United States, were simply becoming

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more democratic.

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And it was recognized early on that if you can't control people by worse or, you know,

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poverty or some other means, you are going to have to control them by what was quite

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openly called propaganda at the time.

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People don't like the term propaganda anymore, but that was used.

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That's where the US public relations is.

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It grows out of these experiences and this understanding and it is very explicit.

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Professor Chomsky, they developed, put out their papers that I've read from the Carnegie

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Endowment and others that mind control, behavioral modification is much cheaper and much more

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effective than tanks and guns.

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And it's the only thing you can do because in the more democratic countries, you can't

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control people with tanks and guns.

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I mean, maybe to some limited extent, but not very much.

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There's too much freedom.

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The one thing that I think is really key here is to notice where there is a salient agreement

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between the two and also the way that those two things are fully differently understood

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by the two parties.

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Oh, absolutely.

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They are not talking about the same thing whatsoever.

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No.

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No.

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I think that there is, you know, what Chomsky is bringing to the table is ideas about wanting

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to keep people disengaged from some public discourse and some decisions that could be

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detrimental to elite corporations' interests and in so much as that is in their interest,

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then, you know, not having all information fully disseminated works to those goals.

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Right.

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Bannon didn't invent muddying the waters, you know, like propaganda, especially the

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United States propaganda has been rocking that boat for a long time.

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Sure.

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What is early roots of advertising other than that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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What is social media influencers in our day?

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What are any kind of publicist?

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You know, like a lot of that stuff is just perception management.

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Your job is propaganda.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think that there is a real conversation that can be had and I think that, you know,

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I obviously wouldn't necessarily take this tack, but someone could say that if literally

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everybody was engaged in decision-making about every issue, it would be impossible for a

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society to function.

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Sure.

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And maybe to a limit, there is an argument that could be made for, you know, people being

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disengaged is more productive, is actually a better organizational model.

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Sure.

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I'm not advocating that, but I could see someone making that point and I could see Chomsky

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having an interesting conversation with them.

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Right.

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Alex, on the other hand, his beliefs veer so much into the vaccines are meant to make

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us dumb.

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They poison us in our food and all this, that even this point of agreement is a point of

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departure for the two of them.

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Yeah.

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And I find that very weird to look at.

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Yeah.

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And it does sound like Noam Chomsky is describing the phenomena of the government destroying

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the ability of the electorate to honestly engage with their actions.

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And Alex responded, so obviously you're talking about mind control.

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And I think that it, you know, I don't have a good enough glimpse of Alex at 2001, although

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based on, you know, the present day, I would guess that he means like someone putting a

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pendulum.

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No, he means mind control.

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He means legitimate mind control.

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You look into my spinning thing.

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Yeah, I think so.

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But I think that the way, you know, someone like his guest would interact with that is

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taking that as metaphor.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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If Alex was like, hey, so you're in agreement with me, they're putting computer chips inside

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everybody's brain to make them do what they tell them to and Noam would have gone, that

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is not what I'm saying at all.

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But I don't know if that's what Alex is saying back at this point.

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That's one of the parts that is kind of challenging about this is you can hear that from Alex

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even as metaphor, as flourish of speaking, as opposed to it being like, I have you under

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my control, lift your right arm.

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Right.

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And that, that does kind of point out one big issue though, is that all too often we

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just assume people are capable of metaphor.

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Well, it's interesting that he's talking to a linguist.

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Yeah.

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This is borderline the Turing test.

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That's what's going on.

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It's borderline Alex trying to fool a computer into thinking he's human.

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Chomsky is shockingly charitable with Alex and I think it's to his credit in hindsight.

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He's a good interviewee.

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So Alex talks about how Bush and Clinton, this is going to have to be, yeah, I guess

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it would be George W. Bush because he just got elected at this point.

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And Clinton had just been given the boot.

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Yeah.

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So Alex talks about how they're the same based on a very specific set of axes.

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Well take Bush and Clinton, they have the exact same policies on land grabbing, selling

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out sovereignty, deindustrialization, drugging the children, but you asked the average person,

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they have this, this, this cult-like following of their parties and can't admit it's really

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the same, what I call the same, it's really two corporate management teams bidding for

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control of the CEO job of the new world order.

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Well, I, maybe I'm naive, but I have more faith in the public than that.

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My feeling is that the general public is rather well aware of this and I think it shows up

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in the, there are, you know, there's a lot of public opinion study in the United States,

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mainly because business wants to keep its finger on the public pulse.

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They want to know what people are thinking.

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So we have a pretty trustworthy and very extensive polling industry.

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And what comes out of public attitudes, I think is kind of revealing though for the

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last 20 years or so, about 80% of the population, when they're asked, what do you think the

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country, you know, who runs the government or what does it do?

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The answer that they pick out of a set of choices is the government works for the few

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and the special interests, not the people.

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So Chomsky is coming at this with the perspective of like, all right, a lot of people are aware

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of this.

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Yeah.

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There's a different problem that needs to be addressed.

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And that'll come up a little bit later in the interview.

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Right.

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But Alex, his selected criteria upon which Clinton and Bush are the same is weird to

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me.

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It's very suspiciously specific.

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And unfairly articulated.

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No, no, no, no, no.

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They're both land grabbers.

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They both eat children and then they move on and the, wait, what, hold on.

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Did you say land grabbing, I assume is code for conservation.

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Either that or eminent domain.

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Yeah, that could be at this point too.

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At that point, I bet eminent domain was huge on Alex's mind.

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Yeah, that could be.

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That could be.

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And also, I don't know if Bush's early record with EPA stuff was necessarily all that good.

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Oh, not good.

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Not good.

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Drugging the children is the one that's like, okay, you're just talking about like, psychiatric

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meds or something?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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You're talking about Ritalin?

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I heard him talking about Ritalin because that was a huge-

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But it's not like Bush is putting people on Ritalin.

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No, Bush was cramming Ritalin down everybody's throats.

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You forgot the No Child Left Behind was, the parentheses was with Ritalin.

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I mean, obviously, I think that there's overprescription of meds.

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We've talked about that in the past.

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Sure.

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I just don't know exactly what he expects Clinton or Bush to do about it.

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Does he want to make it illegal to take the, like, I thought he's for drug legalization.

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Does he want more regulation on pharmaceutical industries?

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I think he wants you to go the exact opposite direction.

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If you're going to get your ADHD meds, you should go to the corner like everybody else

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does with their drugs.

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I think that's what he's trying to say.

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If it's not on the corner, it's not drugs, buddy.

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Every other night I go down, I get a fifth of whiskey on the corner.

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Absolutely.

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I know a guy, he's got a well-stocked coat.

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Where else do you think I get my Lamictal, Dan?

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I go down the street, guy opens his trench coat.

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Yeah.

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It's bizarre.

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And again, I think that really illustrates the sort of surface level and cherry-picked

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way in which Alex describes the similarity between the two.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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And I think I largely agree with Chomsky's analysis that this isn't, like, groundbreaking

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stuff.

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Yeah.

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The idea that people have an alienation from power.

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Sure, sure.

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Absolutely.

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A random person on the street, you think it's the government or our corporate overlords?

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And they'll be like, ah, I'm going to go with corporate overlords.

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Not surprising to anyone.

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So there's a shift in propaganda that Alex has been feeling over the last few years.

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And this is weird to hear in 2001, because he says this in much later years, too, that

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there's been a shift recently in the last few years.

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And that has been from keeping things secret about the globalists to throwing it in your

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face.

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Ooh.

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And Chomsky has brought up the idea of hopelessness, and that hopelessness is a response that people

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can have to the idea that the government isn't necessarily serving their interests.

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Sure.

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And that is a larger problem than actually some of the other things that Alex might bring

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up.

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Helplessness leads to hopelessness.

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Not hard.

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Sure.

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And Alex is suggesting that this shift in propaganda from hiding the globalists to throwing

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it in your face is a way of facilitating this hopelessness.

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There we go.

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And Chomsky does not go in for that.

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I've seen a shift in the propaganda in the last three years from denying all of this

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to throwing it in our face.

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Could be, but I think my own feeling is the roots go back farther.

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If you go back again to the better, you know, the early part of the 20s, like 1920s approximately,

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that's when this really takes off.

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Madison Avenue?

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Yeah, that's when the public relations industry really exploded.

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And it grew on the basis of the very sensible assumption that was pretty clearly articulated

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that we have to somehow make sure that the general public does not make use of the democratic

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opportunities that are available to them and leaves us to run the place as we've been doing.

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And the way to do it was you read a business leaders are saying, look, we have to induce

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what's called a philosophy of futility, actually use the phrase.

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We have to kind of direct people to superficial things like fashionable consumption.

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We have to regiment.

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Yeah, it's something, anything that doesn't bother us.

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Bread and circus.

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Yeah.

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It's just anything like that.

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I mean, that's true of leading intellectuals.

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I mean, takes a Walter Lippmann, who is the leading figure in the U.S. elite media in

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the 20th century, major public intellectual, he's the one who invented the phrase manufacturer

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of consent.

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We borrowed it from him and he thought it was necessary.

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It's necessary to manufacture consent in order to make sure that we, what he called the responsible

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men can run the affairs of the world without being bothered.

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And what he didn't say, but what is crucial is your point.

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The people, you become a responsible man if you're serving the interests of concentrated

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private power, otherwise you're not.

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So when Chomsky is talking about a position and an idea, he's able to bring up the people

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who are the proponents of the opposite of his idea there.

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He's able to engage with this in a much more thorough way, even in a matter of a minute

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than Alex is ever able to deal with any issue.

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Yeah, it's very strange to hear somebody talk on this show and then be like, wow, really

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smart.

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Really smart stuff.

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That's a full thought.

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Good work, man.

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Good work.

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Yeah.

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Somebody should make you famous.

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I don't even know what to respond with.

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It's just like, there's an interesting conversation that you could have with Chomsky about these

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issues.

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Yeah, I would like to talk to Noam Chomsky.

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I feel like that's what I'm learning from all of this is that somehow Alex fucking Jones

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gets to talk to Noam Chomsky and he doesn't get to listen to me shit-talk him while he's

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explaining the world to me.

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Well, and that is, life is unfair sometimes.

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It is unfair.

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It is.

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Yeah, this is one of the things that makes this kind of difficult to really even engage

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with too deeply as content from my end is that, yeah, I think I can see what Chomsky

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is saying.

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He's articulating positions clearly.

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I think rebutting things would, you know, there's some stuff that I maybe don't entirely

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agree with, but you know, it would be a matter of teasing out points to really get to the

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bottom of like, okay, well, you know, yes, there is an interest in media, in having people

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consumed with superficial things.

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Sure, of course.

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How much of that is intentional strategy driven by people who want people to be distracted

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from larger issues, and how much of that is actively, that is what people want, and there

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is a market for that, and you know, people are filling that market.

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What is the balance between the two?

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Yeah, I mean, it would be hard to argue that the best example of that very thing would

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be Trump's tweets.

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Like by constantly covering Trump's tweets, they almost ensured he would at least have

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a run, have a shot at becoming president.

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At the same time, if the public weren't so consumed and so interested with discovering

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more and more about his dumb fuck tweets, then they wouldn't be covering it, you know?

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Yeah, and to this question, particularly about what he's bringing up about the media and

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what Alex Yell's bread and circuses with, is there is a supply component and there's

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a demand component, and to ignore either I think is not the full picture, and I don't

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think that Chomsky's ignoring the demand picture, it's just not part of this conversation, and

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that would be the kind of way I would approach this, and I just, he makes points, and here

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are the points.

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See now, the problem Alex is, is he had a perfect opportunity to cut into Noam Chomsky

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and be like, actually, I think it goes further back than that to Rome with bread and circuses,

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Mr. Chomsky!

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You're not smart enough to figure out the echo on your phone, now are you?

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Or hey, Noam, could I tell you about Adam Weisshop and the Bavarian Illuminati?

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I'd like to tell you some fucked up ideas I have about the Illuminati, I don't know.

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Anyway, I think that Noam Chomsky is able to make points, and so it's a foreign concept

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on InfoWars.

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Sure, no, it's confusing.

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But he brings up the difference of opinion between the sort of elite corporations and

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the normal person who has a job, perhaps, in terms of free trade agreements.

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One of the major issues for the public, look at Bowles and it's understandable, are these

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international economic agreements, the things that are called free trade agreements.

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So that's not what they are.

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Those are very big issues for the public.

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People are very much worried about the trade deficit, because they know that's their job.

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China has a 40% tariff on us, we have a 2% on them.

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They call that free trade, you're not an isolationist, are you?

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No, I'm not.

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But this stuff is not even free trade.

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No, but that's what they say.

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That's what they say.

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Right, of course.

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Now, the point I'm trying to make is this, these are very big issues for the population.

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They're also big issues for the business world, but the population and the business world

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happens to be on opposite sides.

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Therefore, the issues do not arise in political campaigns.

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So like, for example, the free trade area of the Americas, which is an enormous agreement,

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very little, a lot of consequences.

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That has yet to be discussed in the media.

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It's been negotiated for three years.

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It finally broke through at the helmet of the Americas meeting in Quebec, there was

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such a furor over it, it had to be mentioned.

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But it's been under negotiation for a couple of years by corporate managers, by trade ministers

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of governments who are basically corporate representatives.

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The media know all about it, but they don't want the public to know.

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It did not come up in the political campaigns.

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The nature of these arrangements has yet to be made public.

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I mean, you can sort of figure it out if you do a research project, but these things are

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not made available to the public, and it's for a very clear reason.

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Our final segment with the professor with solutions coming up.

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So things still seem to be going fairly well between them.

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Yeah.

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This is stuff that Alex can get on board with.

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Totally.

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Now, maybe Alex would view this as the consequence of an elaborate shady conspiracy to put this

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trade deal in in order to enslave white men.

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Sure.

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Whereas Chomsky would look at it more as the result of business interests, those filters

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that are brought up in the propaganda model, things like ownership of conglomerates, the

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sources of news, the advertising revenues, things like that create a market environment

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where it's not in the best interest of the people who may profit from one of these arrangements

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to cover it too much.

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Right.

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If it's something that could be something that would be very unpopular with the normal

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voting public.

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Sure.

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One thing I am absolutely seeing that is mitigating what I would think is so much disagreement

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is that Chomsky is elucidating the conspiracies that are real that we all know about.

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You know, like we all know that billionaires and the government work together to fuck us

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over.

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That's a normal conspiracy.

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That's what they do.

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And it's not even like it's not even like their fault.

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They're just creations of the system that is propping them up.

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And then they continue to, you know, they do that whole thing.

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But since he's framing it in that conspiratorial, like these business interests and the government

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are all working together to fuck us over, that can be viewed by Alex in the same way

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that the metaphor could be viewed by Noam Chomsky.

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It's like, oh, you're absolutely right.

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There is a conspiracy of the Rothschilds and the government to fuck us over with NAFTA.

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Yeah.

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There's enough leeway to this that Alex can still find it useful.

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And the audience can still read into it what they want to read into it that fits the sort

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of Infowars narrative structure.

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Whereas it does not necessarily and it's a lot more boring than the way that Alex would

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put it.

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Yeah.

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But man, you can absolutely see it like in 2001 that that level of like because the government

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is so fucking corrupt and because Alex isn't outright saying he's fighting the devil.

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You can go on an Infowars show and say the government's fucking corrupt.

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And Alex is like, yeah, the government's fucking corrupt and everybody goes, yeah, the government's

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fucking corrupt.

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And then 20 years later, you're like, let's overthrow the government.

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And it's like, oh, no, wrong.

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Because they're working for the devil.

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Exactly.

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No bill.

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You messed up, guys.

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Shit.

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Yeah.

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And I think that this is in that real sweet spot of pre 9-11, but post 2000 election,

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where there is so much chaos and alienation in people.

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The result of the 2000 election was such a awful...

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I mean, it was literally stolen.

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It was a moment where scales fell from people's eyes in a lot of ways.

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Yeah.

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Across the aisle, perhaps, even.

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You can't think of...

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This is the way that our process is going through.

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This doesn't feel right.

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Are you telling me that our process has been derailed by Republican aides, fake dressing

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up as business people to get rid of...

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Wait, are you talking about Roger Stone?

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What are we doing?

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Is this our government?

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Is this how it works?

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Yeah.

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And you had that period before 9-11 where people were all over the map in terms of their

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beliefs about the administration.

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Totally.

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And I think that people galvanized a lot after 9-11 due to coming together after a national

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tragedy.

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But this exists in that space before that, where there's a lot of fertile ground for

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Alex to take advantage of in political disillusionment.

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And so I think that Noam, unfortunately, but I don't know, I don't think he knows too much

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about Alex and just thinks that he is kind of like an alternative news guy.

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And he says things like, you know, outlets like yours are important to...

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But I think that that is a perception that even I certainly had more of a feeling of

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four years ago.

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Sure, totally.

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Because there is a reality that people who are outside of the structures of advertising,

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those voices are important.

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And sometimes there is value in somebody who's, you know, maybe wrong sometimes, but willing

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to take a chance.

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Totally.

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I think those voices are valuable in the broad spectrum of media.

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Totally.

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I mean, to Chomsky's earlier point, like, if you recall the media immediately following

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that stolen election, like, they quickly were like, hey, you know what, we need to unite

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around our president and we need the country to come together.

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At no point in time were they like, hey, we can't have a stolen election.

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Like that just can't be a thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I guess that opens up another conversation of like, what would it have looked like if

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the media had called out the election?

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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But leaving that aside, I think that Chomsky has a similar tack to, you know, what I had

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perhaps before I knew as much about Alex as I do.

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And I think a lot of people, if they don't know all that much about him, which is just

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like, you're a guy who's on the outside.

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You're a fringe guy.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:48.000)

Sure.

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You broke into Bohemian Grove or whatever.

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Maybe I don't agree with you, but there's value in you existing in the media landscape.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:55.719)

And I don't agree with that now.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:57.480)

Disagree.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:58.480)

But you can kind of see that in the way that he's engaging with him.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:02.199)

Radio can be a very important, I mean, it's an extremely important instrument.

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There can be real involvement of interchange and that can be a highly important educational

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instrument.

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And there are others.

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I mean.

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So it's not just sound bites.

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People have to actually espouse ideas.

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You know, these are not trivial issues.

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You have to really think them through the thing that I mentioned, for example, the international

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economic agreements.

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You have to think about them, you have to learn about them.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:26.559)

You can't just listen to a slogan and say, OK, that's what I think.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:30.199)

Well, these are unelected, unaccountable international boards controlled by the top 20 corporations

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and banks telling us they're going to run our lives.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:36.880)

I mean, that's a horrible idea, but most Americans don't know that.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:39.679)

That's essentially Alex responding to Noam Chomsky saying you can't use sound bites and

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catchphrases.

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With a sound bite.

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More or less.

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And a catchphrase.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:48.239)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:49.239)

Ah, man.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:50.239)

So you're telling me that Noam Chomsky told Alex Jones that he's important and Noam Chomsky

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won't even talk to me.

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That's just bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:59.239)

It's just bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:00.239)

It's unfair.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:01.239)

Noam Chomsky, I'm calling you out.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:03.920)

But again, again, if you don't know that much about Alex, you don't actually listen to his

Unknown Speaker (00:50:09.360)

show.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:10.360)

And like I said, I don't know too much about exactly what he was like in 2001.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:14.760)

But you see this in other eras of his career, too.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:18.099)

If you don't know all that much about him, you could get the sense that like, yeah, you're

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not just doing sound bites.

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You are getting into the issues.

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And that is a value of radio.

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I do agree with Chomsky on that.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:32.000)

Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:33.000)

But not Alex so much.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:34.679)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:35.679)

Absolutely not.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:36.679)

The two of them get along pretty well.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:39.119)

They both seem to hate consumerism.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:40.880)

Well, that's like these $150 Nike tennis shoes that are so ugly I wouldn't touch them if

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they were free.

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But the young people are just begging and have to have them or they're not human.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:51.679)

Yeah.

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And if you watch, I mean, I sometimes watch this television with my grandchildren.

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What they are subjected to is criminal.

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I mean, they're barraged by propaganda, teaching them from infancy that the only thing in life

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is getting those tennis shoes or those Pokemon cards or whatever it may be.

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And that is really a way to control people in a very ugly fashion.

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People have to learn how to escape from that.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:20.239)

It's a hard struggle.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:21.719)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:22.719)

Yeah.

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Consumerism is a toxic influence.

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And I don't know what's the answer to it.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:28.440)

It's an individual process.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:29.760)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:30.760)

Right?

Unknown Speaker (00:51:31.760)

I mean, it can't be like outlawing advertising.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:33.599)

No, that probably won't work.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:36.920)

I would say one solution would obviously be to scorch the skies and have an AI keep us

Unknown Speaker (00:51:44.079)

inside of egg sacks.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:46.280)

That would be one solution.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:47.760)

Certainly.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:48.760)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:49.760)

Although even then the AI has propaganda inside of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:52.440)

So, man, you're never going to escape.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:54.800)

No.

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I think the only way that this is productive as a conversation is addressing it as an individualistic

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pursuit of recognizing when those kinds of advertising tricks are being used.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:06.360)

Right.

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And being like, yeah, I don't actually want that as much as they are saying I want it.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:12.119)

Or maybe I do.

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Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:14.119)

You know, like advertising, I think that sometimes is dumb, but I actually do want what's being

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sold.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:20.760)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:21.760)

I don't like Taco Bell commercials, but I do want Taco Bell.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:24.440)

I just, all I want is, like, I'm so stoked when I find out something exists that I didn't

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know exists.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:31.079)

Like if all commercials were just like, hey, you need to wash your clothes, Tide.

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I'd be like, holy shit, I didn't know Tide was out there.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:38.519)

Yes, you did.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:39.760)

That's not the point.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:40.760)

That's not the point.

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Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:42.760)

I mean, that experience was exactly what I had at the beginning of April when I saw the

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commercial for Mortal Kombat.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:46.599)

Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:47.599)

It's like, what?

Unknown Speaker (00:52:48.599)

Okay, then we'll watch Mortal Kombat.

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I don't give a shit about your commercial.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:51.639)

The commercial is not going to convince me one way or another.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:53.599)

You're informing me this exists.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:54.599)

Just tell me.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:55.599)

That's all I needed to know.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:56.599)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:57.599)

But I think that people can do that.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:03.320)

They're very capable of doing that, and I think that that is what the message that Chomsky's

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bringing in many ways is, is thinking, is recognizing and being able to work around

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these things because you can't really stop them.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:19.039)

And the fact that you can't stop them is what feeds into helplessness.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:23.280)

You can't get rid of advertising.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:25.679)

You're not going to get rid of public relations firms.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:29.199)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:30.199)

That isn't going to happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:31.199)

Because, I mean, even think about it just from a structural, actual perspective.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:35.960)

How would that happen?

Unknown Speaker (00:53:38.260)

How could you do that?

Unknown Speaker (00:53:39.400)

You couldn't legislate away those kinds of...

Unknown Speaker (00:53:42.840)

I just don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:44.000)

It would be impossible.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:45.000)

Oh, ooh.

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Turn all the electricity off.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:47.840)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:48.840)

Then people would just make pamphlets again.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:50.119)

Ah, they couldn't do it without electricity to run their printers.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:54.679)

No, they'd just go back to the old cha-chunk.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:58.039)

Get rid of presses.

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Get rid of ink.

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Get rid of ink!

Unknown Speaker (00:54:01.840)

Wow, you're good.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:03.239)

So I think that the path away from helplessness that I'm hearing is self-motivated, self-driven,

Unknown Speaker (00:54:13.079)

and the ways that intellectuals and public speakers can be of help is helping people

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recognize that it is a path out of this conundrum as opposed to, and sure, there's institutional

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things you can do, like perhaps break up large media entities.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:28.719)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:29.719)

Certainly there's organization and things you can do on that front, but the idea of

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getting rid of the influence that is this negative consumerism is not likely.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:41.360)

No, that is, yeah, it's not going back in the box, Pandora.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:45.679)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:46.679)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:47.679)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:48.679)

This clip was really weird.

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I don't understand exactly what Alex is saying, but I have some thoughts on it.

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Take, say, these trade agreements that are coming along.

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One crucial part of them is to take what are called services and hand them over to private

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power.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:03.800)

Well, services are just about anything that people would care about.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:08.000)

You know, health, education, water, excuse me, I don't like anything that would be in

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the arena, in the public arena where people would not want to make decisions that has

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to be taken out of the public arena, put into private hands, unaccountable private hands,

Unknown Speaker (00:55:27.000)

and then, you know, what's left for the public is which kind of shoes I buy.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:31.820)

But these private corporations are taking on governmental power and take the lower Colorado

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river authority here in Texas, they're private, but they have SWAT teams and will arrest you.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:43.000)

And it's the ultimate tyranny and then they say, hey, we're a corporation, you can't see

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our records.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:48.920)

That's right.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:49.920)

You can't ask questions.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:51.280)

I think that what Alex is talking about is the lower Colorado river authority is like,

Unknown Speaker (00:55:59.159)

you know, like dams and like electric power plants.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:04.519)

I think he's talking about like guards around the area.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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I'm not entirely sure.

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I think that's what he, cause they have like private security.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:12.039)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:13.039)

But what Chomsky's bringing up is privatization, essentially, and Alex is opposed to that,

Unknown Speaker (00:56:18.860)

but he also hates big government.

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Whereas Chomsky's answer to this is public ownership and Alex would be staunchly opposed

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to that.

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He'd rather die than publicly own a business.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:29.320)

He doesn't have a coherent answer to this because on the one hand you have public businesses

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or private businesses, should you allow private business for necessities?

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Should you allow air to be privatized?

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Should you allow water to be privatized?

Unknown Speaker (00:56:51.000)

Alex should be opposed to that, but also opposed to the alternative.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:54.840)

It doesn't seem like Alex has a clear way out of his bullshit whenever cornered by Noam

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Chomsky.

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Someone who does have a position.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:05.039)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:06.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:07.039)

What you do is you wiggle and Alex tries to bring up the difference between a democracy

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and a republic.

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This is a classic right wing fun time.

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So Alex is bringing up the difference between a democracy and a republic to Noam, can I

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read that?

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What's the name again?

Unknown Speaker (00:57:25.559)

Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:26.559)

Noam Chomsky?

Unknown Speaker (00:57:27.559)

Oh, that's who I would do it.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:28.559)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:29.559)

I wouldn't do it against that other guy.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:31.019)

It doesn't go well.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:32.019)

Ah, that's not surprising.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:33.039)

And I would say that this is the turning point of the interview.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:36.360)

This is where things go like, Oh, we're on thin ice.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:39.079)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:40.079)

I hear Republicans, Democrats saying democracy, that's a semantical deception.

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The founding fathers said a democracy is horrible.

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It's two wolves and a sheet voting on what's for dinner.

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A republic has a rule of law, separation of powers, a bill of rights that you can't violate

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and the democracy 50% say, 51% say all the black people are killed or all the white people

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are killed.

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It's done or take that farm.

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It's done.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:02.119)

Uh, right there.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:03.119)

I mean, we hear this word democracy all the time.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:06.119)

Well, we're a Republican.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:07.119)

There's a big difference.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:08.119)

Uh, actually, I think the real issues are elsewhere.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:12.239)

I mean, the distinction between Republican democracy that you're describing was not really

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what concerned the founding fathers, what they were concerned about.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:20.280)

He reads a James Madison, the main Kramer, what he was concerned about, but he wanted

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to have a system in which power would lie in the hands of what he called the wealth

Unknown Speaker (00:58:30.360)

of the nation, uh, the more capable class of men.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:34.519)

Uh, and the reason was because the goal of government, this phrase is to protect the

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minority of the opulence against the majority.

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So the system was designed to try to ensure that the wealth of the nation would essentially

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be in control and that the general public would be fragmented and marginalized and so

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on.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:56.239)

Now you look over the course of time, middle class flourish here though, professor, pardon

Unknown Speaker (00:59:00.880)

the middle class flourish here, uh, 4% of the population would have the middle class

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flourish.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:06.639)

Well, that's, you know, that's not the middle, 4% of the population is in the middle class,

Unknown Speaker (00:59:11.360)

middle class.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:12.360)

It'll, but I think, look, so Alex is having trouble now because Noam has, uh, pointed

Unknown Speaker (00:59:18.039)

a finger at the founders in a way that Alex cannot handle.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:23.280)

Uh, um, yeah, so Alex rebuts that a middle class flourished here.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:30.239)

And he, because of right wing policies, Dan, and his evidence of it is that 4% of the population

Unknown Speaker (00:59:35.920)

of the world and we had half of the wealth.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:38.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:39.039)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:40.039)

And I think Chomsky doesn't understand what he said because he said 4% isn't the middle

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class.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:47.000)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:48.000)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:49.000)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:50.000)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:51.000)

And if he heard Alex saying 4% of our population had half of the wealth, then that would be

Unknown Speaker (00:59:53.659)

the response that would be given.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:55.480)

But I still think even if he had accurately heard what Alex said, I still think that what

Unknown Speaker (01:00:00.719)

he's saying is accurate.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:02.159)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:03.159)

The 4% that had all the wealth wasn't necessarily the middle class.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:06.440)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:07.440)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:08.440)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:09.440)

They were very much not the middle class, uh, on account of there were only 4% of them.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:12.880)

Uh, no, no, the 4% is 4% of the world's population.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:16.119)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:17.119)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:18.119)

That's the way that Alex is meaning that.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:19.119)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:20.119)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:21.119)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:22.119)

Um, so you leave the 4% aside.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:23.119)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:24.119)

And if he did have half the wealth, it wasn't like evenly distributed among the population.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:29.679)

There may have been a fairly comfortable, uh, middle class.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:34.079)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:35.079)

I would argue the, uh, slave population probably wasn't taken care of as well.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:42.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:43.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:44.039)

At that point.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:46.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:47.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:48.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:49.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:50.039)

Um, this, this issue with the founding fathers is the beginning of what is going to become

Unknown Speaker (01:00:55.639)

a tear in the fabric of friendship.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:57.639)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:58.639)

Um, we have, uh, this, this, uh, conversation, it ends up going to guns because of course

Unknown Speaker (01:01:05.639)

it does.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:06.639)

Oh no, it's not going to go to guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:07.639)

Almost immediately.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:08.639)

Almost immediately.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:09.639)

Of course it does.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:10.639)

I think, look, over the centuries, there's been a lot of struggles against this elitist

Unknown Speaker (01:01:14.800)

concept, and the options for public participation did increase substantially.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:22.039)

But was it elitist for them to say that we would all be armed and have the right to keep

Unknown Speaker (01:01:25.679)

and bear arms?

Unknown Speaker (01:01:26.679)

Well, you know, that's not what they meant back at that time.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:29.760)

What they meant is you read the second amendment, they said, in the context of raising malicious

Unknown Speaker (01:01:35.320)

people should have the right to bear arms.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:36.920)

Now that's, we're living in a different world, you know, we're not raising malicious.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:40.760)

The question whether people should have arms is a separate issue.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:43.719)

I mean, in fact, here, the United States is off spectrum of international society.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:49.400)

Uh oh, uh oh, uh oh, Gnome, Gnome.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:52.599)

Did you just say internationals are the way?

Unknown Speaker (01:01:56.440)

Gnome, Gnome.

Unknown Speaker (01:01:57.440)

Gnome!

Unknown Speaker (01:01:58.440)

Gnome!

Unknown Speaker (01:01:59.440)

Gnome, you have, Gnome, you have hit a very dangerous button, and you can't undo this

Unknown Speaker (01:02:07.880)

now.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:08.880)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:09.880)

You have just told Alex that his interpretation of the second amendment is wrong.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:11.760)

New world order.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:12.880)

New world order.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:13.880)

Oh no, turns out Gnome Chomsky's a shill.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:17.960)

The United States is off spectrum of international society.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:23.519)

Do you think people are hopeful, I mean, are you hopeful that folks are going to wake up

Unknown Speaker (01:02:27.079)

to this system?

Unknown Speaker (01:02:28.880)

I think people, again, like I said, maybe I'm naive, but I think that people more or

Unknown Speaker (01:02:33.719)

less understand it, and what they feel is helpless, and they have to be able to overcome

Unknown Speaker (01:02:38.559)

that feeling of helplessness, and there are ways of doing it.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:41.079)

You know, in the past, people have organized, they have struggled, they've achieved rights,

Unknown Speaker (01:02:46.000)

we have all kinds of rights and freedoms that didn't exist not long ago, and that's because

Unknown Speaker (01:02:52.000)

people were not willing to just sit back and take it, but to organize, learn, act, educate,

Unknown Speaker (01:02:59.920)

do things to change the world so that it's their concerns and needs.

Unknown Speaker (01:03:03.880)

We have the opportunity to do that, and we're very privileged, we live in a society where

Unknown Speaker (01:03:09.159)

people are not controlled by force, that's an extremely important privilege.

Unknown Speaker (01:03:12.679)

Well, Mr. Chomsky, I have to be honest with you, and I really appreciate you coming on,

Unknown Speaker (01:03:15.639)

I want to tell folks about some of your publications and let you get back to work, but right there,

Unknown Speaker (01:03:20.760)

it seemed like a group think hurting mechanism when you talked about the guns, and you said,

Unknown Speaker (01:03:27.440)

well, I think America, the US, is off from the main line of the rest of the world, as

Unknown Speaker (01:03:36.280)

if, oh, we're a little backwards if we still have guns, I mean, that's that whole group

Unknown Speaker (01:03:39.480)

think right there.

Unknown Speaker (01:03:40.679)

So Alex is trying to express this notion that, you know, you're trying to shame America about

Unknown Speaker (01:03:47.639)

guns based on the notion that the rest of the world is more civilized because they don't

Unknown Speaker (01:03:53.159)

have guns, and this is just anathema to Alex, he has decided that if you present that kind

Unknown Speaker (01:04:01.360)

of a position on his show, you're fucking chill, and Alex throws out, literally, a great

Unknown Speaker (01:04:09.559)

degree of agreement.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:10.559)

Oh yeah, no, it's all gone.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:12.559)

What guns!

Unknown Speaker (01:04:13.559)

What could have led to a second interview, probably could have led to a decent, I mean

Unknown Speaker (01:04:19.719)

eventually would fall apart, but there wasn't hostility here, there was someone who has

Unknown Speaker (01:04:26.159)

a different perspective on some of the similar themes that Alex talks about.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:31.559)

Yeah, no, I mean, the moment Noam said, we live in a country where you can't control

Unknown Speaker (01:04:38.039)

people by force, all I saw in my head was Alex pulling a gun and saying, you take that

Unknown Speaker (01:04:43.760)

back, and it's like, well!

Unknown Speaker (01:04:46.159)

Look, guns are not about force, they're about politeness.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:50.000)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:51.000)

So even that, when Alex is saying that, you know, like, hey, this is, you're trying to

Unknown Speaker (01:04:55.599)

pull out some groupthink, even that, Chomsky is pretty generous and measured with his response.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:02.280)

As if, oh, we're a little backwards that we still have guns, I mean, that's that whole

Unknown Speaker (01:05:05.159)

groupthink right there.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:06.880)

It could be, again, I don't think it's an obvious question, and I think we'd really

Unknown Speaker (01:05:11.440)

have to talk about it and think it's true, but if you want my opinion, I think they're

Unknown Speaker (01:05:15.079)

much too easy to get in the United States.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:17.159)

But England's crime rate just doubled three years after they took all the guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:20.559)

Well, see, the United States does not have a particularly high crime rate.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:26.000)

It's been sort of toward the high end of the spectrum of industrial societies, but not

Unknown Speaker (01:05:31.000)

out of range.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:32.300)

The one real difference between the United States and other countries is killings with

Unknown Speaker (01:05:36.880)

guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:37.880)

So, it seems like Chomsky is just ignoring Alex's obviously misrepresented stats about

Unknown Speaker (01:05:45.360)

Yeah, he's not taking the bait.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:46.920)

No, and he's framing the conversation where he believes it's more important, which is

Unknown Speaker (01:05:51.199)

deaths, gun deaths, which is out of pace with other industrialized countries.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:57.760)

Yeah, Alex isn't the first person to come at him with that bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:01.480)

Doesn't seem like it.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:02.480)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:03.480)

So, he might be the first, Alex might be the first person to come with this, though.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:08.320)

The one real difference between the United States and other countries is killings with

Unknown Speaker (01:06:12.880)

guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:13.880)

Not anymore.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:14.880)

Yeah, it's very high here as compared to other countries.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:18.239)

Look at The Economist no longer.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:19.760)

We're number 12.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:20.760)

England and Australia are number one and two now.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:24.800)

In deaths by guns?

Unknown Speaker (01:06:26.039)

Yes, now they are.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:27.320)

I don't think so.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:28.320)

London is now more dangerous.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:30.760)

Only the last three years.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:31.760)

It wasn't three years ago.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:32.760)

You're right, three years ago.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:34.119)

It's now worse than Washington, D.C., sir.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:38.400)

In deaths by guns?

Unknown Speaker (01:06:39.639)

Yeah, I have about four different universities, three different governments.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:43.800)

Australian, Europe, statistical data.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:46.360)

It's all on Infowars.com right now, professor.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:49.800)

Okay, I'd take a look, but if that's the case, I'd look at the reasons, and I would suspect

Unknown Speaker (01:06:54.760)

that the reason is that there has been an increased availability of guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:59.400)

If there's going to be an increased availability, then there are going to be crimes using guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:03.679)

You're right, sir.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:04.960)

They outlawed the guns, and so now the criminals...

Unknown Speaker (01:07:07.760)

They've always had guns outlawed.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:09.280)

So now the criminals have a reason to bring them in because the black markets made it

Unknown Speaker (01:07:13.659)

very lucrative.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:14.659)

See, I don't think the guns were always outlawed, and even the police didn't have guns in England

Unknown Speaker (01:07:19.320)

until very recently.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:20.320)

Oh, people had guns over there?

Unknown Speaker (01:07:22.239)

No, look, in England, even the police were not armed with guns until fairly recently.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:28.360)

Professor Chomsky?

Unknown Speaker (01:07:29.519)

The police didn't have guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:31.039)

The people had handguns and rifles.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:32.800)

They just confiscated them three years ago.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:34.679)

No, that happened, and it was an effort to do that in Canada.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:38.360)

That's a different story.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:39.360)

I mean, look, this is a big issue, and we have to look into the details of it.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:43.360)

I really don't agree with you about the facts, but these are factual questions.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:48.199)

We could settle it.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:49.199)

I have the facts.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:50.199)

Well, I'd love to debate you on it.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:52.159)

Real quick, tell folks about some of your books and publications.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:54.559)

That is a we're done here.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:56.280)

Tell me about your publications.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:59.880)

If there's more availability of guns, then there's more gun deaths.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:05.440)

No!

Unknown Speaker (01:08:06.440)

I see, I think that there's a really, not bizarre at all, very foreign to info wars

Unknown Speaker (01:08:13.760)

situation going on where he's talking to a person who is staying on the one thing that

Unknown Speaker (01:08:20.760)

they were talking about, which is deaths by guns, Alex's fudging statistics, making stuff

Unknown Speaker (01:08:27.079)

up.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:28.079)

Yeah, you brought up a different issue.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:29.079)

Hey, tell people about your books.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:30.760)

I'm going to have to let you go.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:32.399)

But what Chomsky is doing is being overly charitable.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:37.039)

He's not saying, Alex, you're a fucking liar.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:39.720)

You're making stuff up.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:40.720)

He's saying, I would need to take a look at that.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:43.079)

And if that is the case, here is a potential explanation for why that could be the case.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:48.359)

And then Alex has taken that potential explanation that Chomsky has for his fictitious stats,

Unknown Speaker (01:08:55.359)

explanation for his fictitious stats.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:57.159)

Yeah, I think I would have said something along the lines of, if England and Australia

Unknown Speaker (01:09:03.159)

are one and two in gun deaths, I will eat a bowl of my own shit, you idiot.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:08.079)

I bet you a million dollars.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:09.079)

I will take that bet.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:10.359)

So Alex, what he's doing is he's talking about the Firearms Amendment Acts of 1997 in England,

Unknown Speaker (01:09:17.079)

which were passed in response to the Dunblane massacre, where a man in his 40s carried out

Unknown Speaker (01:09:21.199)

a mass shooting at a primary school.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:23.279)

The strategy that they employed was not to confiscate guns, but to ban future ownership

Unknown Speaker (01:09:27.359)

of most guns and let the valid licenses that were active lapse and not be renewed.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:32.640)

In response, a ton of people voluntarily turned in their guns, and Alex is pretending that's

Unknown Speaker (01:09:36.359)

a confiscation.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:37.840)

And it did make more guns illegal to own, but there's been some pretty strict rules

Unknown Speaker (01:09:43.920)

about guns in England predating this.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:46.560)

Like, Noam Chomsky's not far off.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:50.399)

Alex could get him on a technicality if he was saying that all guns have always been

Unknown Speaker (01:09:55.039)

illegal or whatever, but spiritually he's not off.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:59.920)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:00.920)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:01.920)

Cops shouldn't be armed.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:03.159)

Now that having happened, Alex decides, I think I'm going to hang up on this dick.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:11.079)

Really do appreciate you joining us.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:12.159)

I would just say this, one big part of controlling the thought process and the debate where the

Unknown Speaker (01:10:16.720)

rat thinks it has a choice, you can go forward, left, right or back, but it's still in there

Unknown Speaker (01:10:20.319)

system, is having people out there talking about this propaganda state in Madison Avenue

Unknown Speaker (01:10:26.840)

and only pointing out certain parts of it and misdirecting people back into the big

Unknown Speaker (01:10:30.800)

government paradigm.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:32.359)

And frankly, sir, you need to get the information on the guns, on the land grabbing, on all

Unknown Speaker (01:10:36.479)

of it, because I have it right here and I respect your work, but at the same time, just

Unknown Speaker (01:10:42.359)

here talking to you, I think some of it isn't as honest as it could be.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:45.479)

Well, you know, that's for people, others to decide when they look at it.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:49.920)

He is.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:50.920)

My audience is pretty well educated.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:51.920)

Thanks for joining us.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:52.920)

Say hi to David Rockefeller for me.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:55.439)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:56.439)

What a dick.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:57.439)

What a complete dick.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:58.439)

Yeah, now.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:59.439)

What a bizarre end to this interview.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:00.439)

Excuse me, sir.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:01.439)

I'm going to agree with you for about an hour, but it turns out that you disagree with me

Unknown Speaker (01:11:15.640)

on guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:16.640)

So you work for David Rockefeller, you lying piece of shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:19.479)

I hope you die.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:20.479)

I hope you die.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:21.479)

Click.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:22.479)

And something that I think is really admirable is the way that Chomsky responds to that.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:27.520)

Like Alex is basically calling him a liar and he's like, well, I guess people just figure

Unknown Speaker (01:11:31.399)

that out.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:32.399)

I'm not going to engage with your, your, your attempt to get me to fight with you or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:37.119)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:38.119)

I like that.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:39.239)

Excuse me, Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:40.600)

You realize I'm gnome Chomsky?

Unknown Speaker (01:11:43.760)

His pulse didn't even go up at all.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:46.640)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:47.640)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:48.640)

I think, I think you're controlled opposition and a real dick and a liar.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:52.000)

Uh, well, I understand your point of view.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:54.279)

I think, uh, people will be smart enough to look into it and see the difference here

Unknown Speaker (01:11:58.279)

and gnome Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:00.119)

You're wrong, buddy.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:01.119)

Say hi to David Rockefeller.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:03.180)

You busted.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:04.180)

So now that he's gone.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:05.840)

Now we get to talk shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:06.960)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:07.960)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:08.960)

There goes gnome Chomsky, ladies and gentlemen.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:11.420)

And I've read his books and now I'm more sure of it than ever.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:13.800)

He's a new world order shill up one side and down the other.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:17.560)

Oh, I never had guns in England.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:21.960)

They most certainly did.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:26.039)

Certainly gun ownership wasn't as prolific.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:28.079)

I mean, how many, I mean, you've seen the video that's been on nationwide of them cutting

Unknown Speaker (01:12:34.520)

the guns in half over there, confiscating the handguns, the rifles three years ago.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:38.880)

We've read the reports, the economist world net daily.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:41.239)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:42.239)

So I mean, just speak freely once he's gone.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:45.039)

I've read his books now.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:46.239)

I know for sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:47.239)

So wait, was the idea to get him in there and then find something to disagree with and

Unknown Speaker (01:12:53.600)

then declare him a shill?

Unknown Speaker (01:12:55.039)

I think it has to have been because he has to have like, if, if, if what Alex is saying

Unknown Speaker (01:12:59.399)

is true and he's read Chomsky's books and suspected that he was an NWO shill, then it

Unknown Speaker (01:13:05.560)

would have to be like, I'm just looking for a point of disagreement in order to make you

Unknown Speaker (01:13:09.199)

an enemy.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:10.199)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:11.199)

That's not, that's not cool.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:12.199)

I would have suggested that when he was talking about one of the books that you supposedly

Unknown Speaker (01:13:18.119)

read would be the time to say that, Hey, I think after having read your book, you're

Unknown Speaker (01:13:24.319)

a shill.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:25.319)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:26.319)

I don't like your position on anti-communist.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:27.319)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:28.319)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:29.319)

It'd be very simple.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:30.319)

All of my favorite people are anti-communist as hell.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:33.640)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:34.640)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:35.640)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:36.640)

I, I, I thought that this was really strange, um, Alex, I don't, I don't know what he was

Unknown Speaker (01:13:48.399)

doing.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:49.399)

I'm, I'm, I'm completely perplexed.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:53.399)

There's so much agreement.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:54.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:55.680)

Now, Alex would have to give up a lot of the sort of more fun elements of his conspiratorial

Unknown Speaker (01:14:01.319)

nonsense if he were to continue engaging with Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:05.439)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:06.439)

Because a lot of this stuff would fall apart.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:07.439)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.439)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:09.439)

A lot of it would.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:10.439)

And, and some of the, the more real, uh, sort of dynamics that Chomsky could bring to the

Unknown Speaker (01:14:14.560)

table are not necessarily as exciting or lucrative.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:20.359)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:21.359)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:22.359)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:23.359)

And maybe there isn't value in it for Alex to be an ally of Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:26.760)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:27.760)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:28.760)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:29.760)

No, I mean, it's hard for me to imagine that he did this interview as a trap in order to

Unknown Speaker (01:14:32.760)

create this moment at the end.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:34.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:35.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:36.680)

It just, it doesn't make sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:37.680)

No, it really doesn't.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:39.479)

It also doesn't feel angry enough for it to be like a visceral response on Alex's part

Unknown Speaker (01:14:44.359)

where he's just like, fuck it.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:45.680)

I'm just mad at this guy.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:47.119)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:48.119)

I mean, it kind of feels like if, if I were running it here would be my kind of a game

Unknown Speaker (01:14:56.119)

plan there, which is if you and Noam Chomsky have an awesome interview, then you get to

Unknown Speaker (01:15:02.720)

say Noam Chomsky is a fan of yours.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:05.159)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.159)

And that legitimizes you to a lot of people.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:08.720)

And it would help Alex's arguments of, you know, being above the left right paradigm.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:12.760)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:13.760)

If you get into a fight with Noam Chomsky, you got into a fight with Noam fucking Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:18.359)

A one-sided fight.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:19.520)

And a lot of people will be like, hell yeah, man.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:22.319)

So Alex really can't lose in this scenario.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:25.800)

I do think that the extreme right elements of Alex's audience, which is certainly more

Unknown Speaker (01:15:33.119)

of the keystone of it than anything, would not like the idea of being friends with Noam

Unknown Speaker (01:15:41.359)

Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:42.359)

Totally.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:43.359)

Totally.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:44.359)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:45.359)

It's, I honestly, I've listened to this interview a couple times and I don't really know exactly

Unknown Speaker (01:15:49.760)

what happened.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:50.760)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:51.760)

I'm not sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:52.760)

It makes no sense to me.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:54.000)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:55.000)

And maybe there was a decent chance that what we saw there with him being like, sir, you

Unknown Speaker (01:15:59.640)

know, I believe that this is a group think and, you know, I think that you're not being

Unknown Speaker (01:16:03.680)

as honest as maybe that's 2001 Angry Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:07.500)

Could be.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:08.500)

Could be.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:09.500)

You know, like maybe we're just judging it based on the bombastic performances of the

Unknown Speaker (01:16:13.520)

present.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:14.520)

Maybe that's how he was an angry dick back then.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:17.680)

How many years had he been doing this?

Unknown Speaker (01:16:19.640)

Not long.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:20.640)

Not too long.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:21.640)

He's inexperienced.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:22.640)

I mean, I wasn't, I didn't get mediocre at comedy for seven years.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:26.399)

So you can't imagine him being, you know, right out the gate, the bombastic disgusting

Unknown Speaker (01:16:33.640)

human being that we expect today.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:35.359)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:36.359)

And the years of substance abuse and globalists and hot tubs have certainly created the character

Unknown Speaker (01:16:45.300)

that he is.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:46.300)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:47.300)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.300)

Anyway, here's the last clip.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:49.300)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:50.300)

I had the spanking there at the end and I certainly enjoyed it.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:51.960)

Really?

Unknown Speaker (01:16:52.960)

Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:53.960)

Really?

Unknown Speaker (01:16:54.960)

I've got a cold order shell and I've got twice the brain you've got with both arms tied behind

Unknown Speaker (01:16:59.840)

my back.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:01.960)

Makes sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:02.960)

I tell you these people, it makes me want to puke.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:08.319)

Our founding fathers were elitists.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:10.600)

They wanted to protect the elite.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.439)

They were bad.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:13.439)

That might not have been the right thing for him to mock.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:17.800)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:19.119)

They owned humans.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:21.960)

So they definitely wanted to protect owning humans.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:27.039)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:28.439)

I think that if you take anything away from this, it's Alex's contention that he has more

Unknown Speaker (01:17:34.720)

brains with both hands tied behind his back.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:37.079)

Man.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:38.079)

A completely meaningless brag.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:41.720)

It really couldn't get more obviously incongruous for someone to say, look how smart I am.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:47.720)

I'm going to use a cliche that could not less apply to the very thing that I'm saying I'm

Unknown Speaker (01:17:53.880)

smart about.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:54.880)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:55.880)

I think that really kind of sums it up.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:57.479)

And honestly, strategically it even sums up what I look at.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:04.039)

There are very few times that I take a look at something that happened in Alex's past

Unknown Speaker (01:18:10.079)

and I'm just completely flummoxed.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.159)

And I really don't know why this happened the way it did.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:17.079)

It's confusing.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:20.640)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:21.640)

And I don't think I have any answers.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:23.760)

I would like to know how the Booker got Noam Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:28.880)

I think a lot of people are more gettable than we think.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:31.500)

That's probably true.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:32.500)

I think that a lot of folks that you might want to talk to, it would just be a matter

Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.600)

of a couple emails.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:37.600)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:38.600)

I mean, considering how much free time I could make at the drop of a hat, I imagine public

Unknown Speaker (01:18:45.720)

intellectuals are in a very similar spot.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:48.319)

Maybe a little bit less free time than you.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:50.000)

Maybe a little bit less free time than me, specifically.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:53.319)

The paragon of free time, Jordan.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:56.520)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:57.520)

I think about how differently history could have gone if Alex and Noam became buddies

Unknown Speaker (01:19:03.720)

instead of Steve Pacanich and Noam Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:10.439)

You're not going to get as many big swings from Noam Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:13.920)

I believe-

Unknown Speaker (01:19:14.920)

Why not?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:15.920)

Steve came into the fold in 2002.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:17.239)

This is 2001.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:18.239)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:19.239)

So this is pre-Steve Pacanich.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:20.239)

Hey, we got to get a new Noam Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:22.000)

Get Steve Pacanich in here.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:23.880)

Dude, if the infinite universes is real, there is a universe-

Unknown Speaker (01:19:28.159)

The multiverse theory.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:30.359)

Where Steve Pacanich is played by Noam Chomsky on the Alex Jones show.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:34.760)

How does that go?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:35.760)

Do you think Noam Chomsky gets crazier or Alex gets less crazy?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:39.720)

I mean, if you go solely based on this interview-

Unknown Speaker (01:19:42.279)

Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:43.279)

I think Alex gets less crazy.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:45.039)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:46.039)

Because to me, Chomsky seems immovable.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:48.000)

No, he's got a heart rate 120 over 80 all day, baby.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:53.880)

He does not seem to care too much and is willing to elucidate positions and clarify things

Unknown Speaker (01:20:00.279)

while discussing things with Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:02.720)

And I think that that would not...

Unknown Speaker (01:20:06.159)

He would disappear before he got crazier because of Alex, I think.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:09.840)

I think Alex believes that he is the waves that could wear away the rock, but instead

Unknown Speaker (01:20:14.920)

it is Noam Chomsky.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:16.159)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:17.159)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:18.159)

And to be honest, I think Steve was crazy when he showed up.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:19.600)

Oh no, of course.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:20.800)

I think Alex didn't make him more crazy.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:22.600)

Steve was crazy when he was working for the State Department.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:25.600)

Probably.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:26.600)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:27.600)

When he killed Aldo Morrow.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:28.600)

They were all probably like, this guy thinks he killed Aldo Morrow.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:33.039)

He did kill Aldo Morrow.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:35.840)

That's true.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:36.840)

So anyway, Jordan, we will be back.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:40.479)

This has been a long overdue checking this box off.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:44.359)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:45.359)

And I wish I had more to bring to it, but I honestly don't.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:48.119)

I think it's just an interesting glimpse of public intellectual...

Unknown Speaker (01:20:52.479)

It really is.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:53.479)

Having a conversation with Alex that it steps on a number of commonalities between where

Unknown Speaker (01:21:01.720)

sort of critical historical study overlaps with, you know, pseudo-conspiracy, you know,

Unknown Speaker (01:21:10.479)

and where there is distinction and where there's departure.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:13.479)

And I think you also get a really solid glimpse of, even in 2001, Alex is so sensitive about

Unknown Speaker (01:21:20.000)

guns.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:21.000)

Totally.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:22.000)

And it may be one of the only things that really means anything to him.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:24.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:25.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:26.680)

And to a certain extent, you know, so many men treat guns as an extension of toxic masculinity,

Unknown Speaker (01:21:34.760)

so maybe that's even more, like, at the deepest level.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:38.079)

It's just toxic masculinity.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:39.479)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:40.479)

You know?

Unknown Speaker (01:21:41.479)

Or property rights.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:42.479)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:43.479)

It could be a symbol of the idea of personal private property.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:47.359)

Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:48.359)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:49.359)

Totally true.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:50.359)

But it's strange.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:51.359)

It's strange that he had to make a fight out of essentially a decent point.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:56.239)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:57.239)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:58.239)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:59.239)

Anyway, we'll be back, Jordan.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:00.520)

But until then, we have a website.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:01.520)

We do have a website.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:02.520)

It's knowledgefight.com.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:03.520)

We are also on Twitter.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:04.640)

We are on Twitter.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:05.640)

It's at knowledgefight.com.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:06.640)

Go to bed.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:07.640)

We're also on Facebook.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:08.640)

We are on Facebook.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:09.640)

If you'd like to download the show, please go to iTunes and et cetera.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:12.920)

And if you could, please find a local charity or bail fund in your area to help out people

Unknown Speaker (01:22:17.119)

doing God's work.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:18.119)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:19.119)

We'll be back.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:20.119)

But until then, I'm Neo.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:21.119)

I'm Leo.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:22.119)

I'm Dizzy X. Clark.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:23.119)

I'm Daryl Rundis.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:24.119)

And now, here comes the sex robots.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:25.119)

In Kansas, you're on the air.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:26.279)

Thanks for holding.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:27.279)

Hello, Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:28.279)

I'm a first time caller.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:29.279)

I'm a huge fan.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:30.279)

I love your work.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:31.279)

I love you.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:32.279)

I love you, too.