Transcript/574: May 28-29, 2003

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N-N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight

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Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

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Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray.

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I have great respect for knowledgefight.

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Knowledgefight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.

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Knowledgefight.

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Dan and Jordan, Knowledgefight.

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Need money.

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Andy and Kansas.

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Stop it.

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Andy and Kansas.

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It's time to pray.

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Andy and Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding.

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Hello, Alex.

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I'm a first time caller, I'm a huge fan.

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I love your work.

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Knowledgefight.com.

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com. I love you. Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge

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Vite, I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes, like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a

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little bit about Alex Jones. Oh indeed we are, Dan.

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Dan. Jordan. Quick question. What's up? What's your bright spot? My bright spot

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today, Jordan, is a callback to a bright spot of days past. Okay. I was going to do

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laundry, I went down to the laundry room, and what should fly past me but a thing?

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I thought it was a bat. Right. It was pretty early in the morning, I was like

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maybe there's bats. Laundry rooms have bats, that's science. It's in a basement, you

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gotta go down a set of stairs. Just fact. And I thought like, oh, a bat. Yeah. And I looked

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and there were birds nesting underneath the staircase, and it was, you know, I

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remember seeing that like a year ago. Yeah. It was really delightful, and I don't

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know, it brought to mind feelings about the, you know, the pandemic waning, I

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guess, a little bit, or life returning to a little bit more of normalcy, and the birds are in on

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it too. Yeah, that is nice. Was it the same birds? No, it was in a

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different spot under the stairs, and it was clearly different birds. Sure, sure. I

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got to know these birds pretty well, and these were different birds. I was gonna say, it'd be nice if you had like a

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whole intergenerational thing starting in you in the laundry room. I don't think

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generations of birds last a year. I don't know how long birds live, but I think it's

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longer than a year. It could be. Yeah. So what's your bright spot? My bright spot, Dan, is a DJ

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Danarchy has made me and us and all of us something very cool. If you could,

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please. The maracas begin to shake, and they gradually shake faster and faster and faster until they get louder and louder and louder. Yeah, it sounded like our theme song.

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Hey, that's right! We finally have a theme song for the podcast that will be coming out next week. Oh wow, very exciting.

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The release date for your, is it all just gonna come in one? It's all gonna come in one giant

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shot. It's gonna show up. You'll be able to download it and listen to the whole

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thing, and then if there's a second season, we will let you know. Sure, we'll have a theme song now. Exactly. It seems almost like we're obligated. We'll see. I'm not. I didn't think so. I'll probably do it if you do it, but I am certainly not obligated. I am not good at

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acting or playing along with things. You were great. Thank you. You were great, Dan. I was fishing for compliments. I know, and you caught something beautiful. So, Jordan, today we are doing a little sneak snake episode. We're in the past.

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Okay. We're talking about May 28th and 29th, 2003. Okay. I was, I didn't know what to

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expect going back to this because time's a little confusing. Sure. And the last

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time we went back to the past, I found it to be a little bit stagnant, and I was a

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little bit worried. I was like, I don't feel like there's any progress about things

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that I know are actually important. Right, right, right, right, right. At this point. But today, we, business picks up a little bit. Okay. And I'm very

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excited about a couple of things that happened that have nothing to do with

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how important, like these important stories from 2003, nothing to do with

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them. That sounds right. But there's one caller in particular that blew my mind,

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and I spent a couple hours researching this call, and I'm very excited to talk

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about it. And we'll get to that. But before we do, Jordan, we gotta take a

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little moment to say thank you to some folks who have signed up, and our new

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wonks. Yay, that's a good idea. That was me vamping while I pulled up my sheet. So first,

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Nick fucking Gage, thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Nick fucking Gage. This, Nick also asked me to do the entire Steiner math

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promo. Okay, well. And I unfortunately could not do that. Oh. It was way too long. I was

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gonna say, I've got a clock up, but. Next, Nessa the Cryptid, thank you so much.

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You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Nessa. Next, Bad Uniball

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Parachutist Zero Sum, thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy

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wonk. Thank you. And now, it is time to get deep. Giving someone life is giving

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someone death. You could say that life is death. You could. It's true. So, Matty,

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happy birthday. Happy birthday. M-A-T-D-Y, Matty. Matty. Also, I apologize, I think it's

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Goral. Goral. It's, this is one of those names that has an O that is a slash

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through it. I don't know what to do with that letter. Is that an O? Is that Goral? Could be. I never

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remember with the slash. That's not one of the characters that I'm aware of how

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to pronounce. Yeah. There's a number of sort of non-English symbols, yeah, yeah,

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that I'm fine with. Totally. That one I don't know what to do with. I stare at it

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and I'm like, I do. Oh, the A with the like little spiral on top? No, I just, just get

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it out of here. I don't understand it. This one's from Torstein in Norway. Wanted to

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wish possibly Goral a happy birthday. Happy birthday. Also, Michael T, happy birthday. Anna wanted us to give you a

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shout out. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Next, D.W. Static. Also having a happy birthday. Happy birthday, D.W.

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Having a happy birthday. Also, Joseph sent a message. He's got a birthday, but instead of

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wishing a happy birthday to himself, he wanted to spread this to all the

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community of wonks and wish everyone else in the world, I guess even if it's not

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your birthday, happy, have the good feelings of someone wishing you a happy birthday. That's a good one. I like that. I like that. Very, very nice and

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communal. So thank you, I guess. That's right. That's why I think we should

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celebrate the way that the giver did, you know, with, what was that, Lois Lowry,

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alright? Everybody has the same birthday once a year. Everybody, same birthday, move

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on with the rest of the year. Just take care of it. This is birthday day. This is birthday. The end. I like it. Might be functional. Yeah, we'll see. So, Jordan, we're

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gonna get into business on this episode, but before we do, here's an out of context drop from

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today's episode. No grandchildren for you. Alex Jones is the grandchildren Nazi. Still no grandchildren. He's the grandchildren Nazi. No grandchildren for you. I know, but it's funny that we're in the

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present day on our last episode, talking about how there's no way for your next

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generation to grow into adults, and then we go back in time and there's still gonna be no grandchildren! It is something of a preoccupation for Alex.

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Seems like it. Yeah, but it's not being formulated in the same way that they will all not grow up.

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Well, it's good to know there's a lot of ways to get to the same destination, I suppose. So we start on May 28th, and I will say at the beginning of this episode, a little bit slow. I'm

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lying. It heats up fast. Okay. Got me very interested very quickly. Okay, okay. I'm for the death penalty, too. I believe that a serial killer or a whatever should be executed. I mean, that's an eye for an eye. That makes sense. It's something that needs to be done, but you have the big criminals running the government. How can you trust them to meet out the death penalty? So, death penalty moratorium considered in North Carolina, the blue-collar

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town known for its furniture factories, law and order conservatism, hardly seems the kind of place that would call for a moratorium on the death penalty, but people don't trust the government. So how can you trust the government to hand out the death sentences? I mean, certainly you're for the death penalty, most of you, so am I, but in Soviet Russia, would you be for Stalin handing out death sentences? No, that's illegitimate.

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Immediately, I was like, I am so fascinated. I got completely thrown for a curve ball here. Is this a nuanced take? It's not. It's something for Alex? No, it's something that's trying to have the appearance of a nuanced take that actually isn't. And honestly, I think this is the first time I've ever heard Alex give a definitive position on the death penalty. Yeah. Up till this point, I'd gathered from context clues that he didn't support the policy, given that many of his other ideas that

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appear to be based on principles have to do with the government not doing things to individuals. Right, right. The position he's putting forth is absolutely the definition of not having a position. There are a lot of reasons to be for or against the death penalty. Some can be based on an emotional appeal, you know, like people who commit certain crimes deserve death. Some can be based on a utilitarian calculation, where you determine that if you have a death penalty, there's actually a significant effect on crime rates, and you make a decision based on the death penalty.

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Sure. That would be a utilitarian analysis whether or not that is actually true. Right, right, right. Still, other positions can be based on ethics, where there's an intrinsic moral character dissenting someone to death, and that consideration guides your position. And then there are sets of political beliefs that could include a strong position regarding the relationship between the individual and the state, which would impact your views on the death penalty in obvious ways.

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Alex seems to only be operating on the most elementary level here. He's appealing to an emotional desire for an eye to be taken for an eye. This is really unimpressive stuff from him, and I once again regret that I gave him more credit than he deserves in terms of this position.

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The other cowardly thing Alex is doing here is that he's claiming that he's for the death penalty, but not when the government is corrupt. The level of corruptness of the government is a completely arbitrary and subjective measurement for Alex, so this actually means nothing.

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According to his feelings, the George W. Bush government, and obviously the Clinton one before it, they are too corrupt to responsibly hand out death sentences. But it would be impossible to formalize this into any meaningful scale that you could judge things on.

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Literally anyone could just counter his argument by saying that they believe that the Bush administration was not too corrupt to hand out death sentences, and Alex would have nowhere to go.

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He could rattle off instances of governmental corruption to try and build to a point, but that still doesn't handle the subjectivity of his assessment of which government is or isn't too corrupt to sentence people to die. It makes no sense.

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I didn't realize that it was in specific with the level of corruption of the government. I thought it was more of a blanket, like, you wouldn't trust the government to do that just because there's a good chance they are corrupt in some fashion or another, because they always have been.

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We'll get more into this.

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Really?

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Yes.

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Okay, well now that doesn't make any fucking sense.

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By presenting his position this way, Alex is effectively making it seem like he's taking a position when he's actually not. He's in favor of the death penalty, but only when it comes to some imaginary ideal government that could be in place.

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By planting his flag there, he can manage to not alienate either side of the debate while getting each to think that he's actually on their side, which is a bit weaselly.

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There's an additional problem here too, and that's that there's no reason why the logic Alex is using should apply exclusively to punishments involving the death penalty.

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If the proposition to the state imposing a death penalty has to do with the state being too corrupt to responsibly give out that sentence, then it should stand to reason that they're also too corrupt to responsibly incarcerate somebody.

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The reasoning that Alex is using entails a complete inability of the government to enforce any laws, because they lack the moral purity or authority to do so.

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The way he's presenting it, I understand where you're coming from, and I actually think that it does get closer to what the point should be. You're saying that by the very nature of it, the government is too corrupt to meet out the death penalty.

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Yes, and I think that that would be a position that you could call, I guess, functionally anti-death penalty. I think that that would have much less problems than what Alex is saying, because he's not saying that.

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He's saying that if there were somebody in charge who was cool, then the death penalty would be good, because murderers deserve to die.

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Yeah. No, I mean, if you wanted to get into it, like, what's the level of... I mean, yeah, Nazi war criminal. Maybe the death penalty's fine there, I guess. That's an argument.

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Whether or not you can trust the government to single out individuals is an obvious open and closed question from all of human history.

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The government can't do it without eventually abusing it and killing a bunch of people that they just want gone.

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I think what's going on is that you're giving more credence to what Alex is saying than it merits.

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Yes, I'm giving far more credence.

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You're reading into this and trying to find a way for it to work when it doesn't.

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No.

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We'll see more as we go along.

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I always thought that there would be a blanket opposition to the death penalty from Alex, because of the relationship between individual and state that is implied through all of his political beliefs.

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And I was surprised when he says that he's for the death penalty. I was also surprised when I heard this.

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Look, it's like drugs. I'm against drugs, okay? Other than caffeine. I didn't drink coffee.

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But I think illegal drugs are bad news, so are big pharmacological, over-the-counter, and prescription garbage.

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But at the same time, we're forced to decriminalize because the government ships the drugs in to create the crisis. The bigger the war on drugs gets, the more drugs, the more people in prison.

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That's a fact, people.

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That is not how I've heard Alex explain his opposition to drug laws at other points in his career that I've listened to.

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Every other time I've heard this discussed, the issue is that Alex is not in favor of drugs, but you have the right to take whatever you want.

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It was literally one of the main selling points of Ron Paul to people on the left, and one of the major tools Alex tried to use to insist that he wasn't a right-winger.

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He was cool. He thought drugs should be legal. You have the right. You're an individual. You're an adult. Freedom.

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Totally.

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He clearly doesn't actually believe that. His opposition to drug laws is purely a consideration of trying to break up the cartel of globalists who he believes ship in all the drugs.

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Legalization is in essence a strategic move against the globalists, not something that Alex supports because of the political belief that adults should be able to use drugs if they want to, which is the way that he presents it pretty regularly.

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This is super weird, man. I'm like five minutes into this episode and already Alex has explained two of his positions on things that I thought he was pretty rational about and shown that his positions are all wrong.

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I'm starting to question if there are any positions that he and I would agree on.

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Nope. Can't think of any.

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No. I don't think so.

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No. Even when you agree, he's wrong about it somehow.

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I hold out that last bit of hope that somehow the conversation about civil asset forfeiture won't somehow turn out to be like, his position on that is based in some kind of alien fear or something.

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I'm more like, we need to get way down on a base level of you guys in a room with a mediator just being like, who's got the best pizza? Just start there.

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No, that's even too murky.

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Can you even agree on it?

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The way we don't do it is, is this green?

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Is this green? Yes, that's a good point.

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No, nothing. Just pure is or is not.

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So Leo is saying about the execution thing, the death penalty, Alex talks a little bit more about his feelings and this is where it kind of gets into like, all right, I can kind of see what you're saying, but it's still incredibly stupid.

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Certainly for a state death penalty. But you need to have massive evidence to do it. There need to be strong rules in place. But no, there should not be a federal death penalty, ladies and gentlemen. It's unconstitutional. It's dangerous. You don't want a central government having that power.

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Here's an interesting statistic that I'd like Alex to chew on. Maybe you know the answer to this. I'm not sure if you do.

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How many people were executed by the federal government during the eight years that Obama was in office?

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Zero. Yup, zero. From 1958 to 2001, only four people were executed by the federal government, one of whom was Timothy McVeigh.

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Three of these came during George W. Bush's presidency, but none after March 2003. So at the point when Alex is complaining about federal executions, he's talking about something that won't happen again for over 17 years.

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And then Trump became president and 13 people were executed by the federal government. And I don't think I ever heard Alex bring it up as a problem.

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That's because we finally had a government that wasn't corrupt.

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Right?

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Exactly.

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See, this is kind of why I get the sense that this is, oh, if there's the right person in charge, I don't think this is actually a problem.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Because it became a giant issue during Trump's presidency.

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You would hope.

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The shift in tone from the previous decades to Trump's four years in office in terms of federal executions was stark. And the fact that it wasn't a major breaking point for Alex, if this is actually what his position is rooted in, that oh, it should only be states doing it, then that's, I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense and I don't trust it.

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It doesn't. That idea of the federal government shouldn't be able to, but state government should, that's so stupid. I can't even breathe.

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So there have been few federal executions for Trump for many years. But conversely, according to analysis from USA Facts, between 1977 and 2018, there were 1,490 executions carried out by states, during which period the federal government only carried out three.

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Alex's beloved state of Texas, quote, accounted for 37% of all executions in this period, or approximately 550.

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The states, particularly Texas, carry out the vast majority of executions, and Alex is saying that he's fine with that, which makes absolutely no sense based on what he's pretending to base his positions on earlier.

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If he doesn't believe the federal government should be able to sentence people to death because the government can be corrupt, it's absolutely idiotic to pretend that the same concern doesn't exist in slightly lower levels of governmental organization.

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Being opposed to the death penalty but only on the federal level is the very definition of a meaningless position.

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It only becomes more meaningless when you explicitly support state executions and you live in Texas, the state with the government that seems most interested in killing convicts.

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It's a downright farce when you also go on to support Donald Trump, the president who presided over 13 federal executions, a total reached in four years that surpasses the number of federal executions that have been carried out for the preceding 67 years combined.

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My point is that Alex's political beliefs are idiotic and they're not based on anything. But, at very least, this kind of brings things into focus.

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You know, at least you can kind of get a sense, because he's given us this little piece of information, it's just a states rights kind of argument that doesn't have anything to do with ethics, morality, or even opposition or support for the death penalty.

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Okay.

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It's meaningless.

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I mean, well, because here's a big problem. If you want to abolish the death penalty in Texas, in Alex's eyes, what it should do is secede, then it will be its own federal government and will no longer be able to perform executions.

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Wow. Yeah, and then I guess the state of Austin would have to choose...

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Exactly! They would have to hire their own executioner.

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But then Austin would have to secede.

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That is such a fucking stupid thing to say. It is beyond, I mean, wow.

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Yeah. It's interesting to me because he just hates the federal government. That's it.

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He just hates the federal government so much that he's willing to accept how many probably innocent people are being killed in the state of Texas by the government.

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Yeah, tons. Yeah.

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I don't understand this. One of the things that I find most remarkable about it is that I could have listened to hundreds and hundreds of hours of Alex's show and still have this be, oh, I had the baseline position that you had wrong.

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I had way too generous of an assumption because I've heard him talk about not being in favor of the death penalty. I just didn't realize that maybe it was rooted in something that's really stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:35.519)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's just, yeah, the only way to carry out the death penalty in Alex's eyes is if there is a, I suppose, philosopher king who's choosing each and every individual person based upon God's orders.

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And when we talk about philosophers, we're talking about Trump.

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Donald Trump. Donald that fucking Trump. Yep.

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So at this point, the process and policy of debatification is in place.

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Right.

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And Alex still is not addressing that or dealing with it in any way, which will end up being, I think, a gigantic thing he was wrong about.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:12.519)

Yeah.

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And here is another thing vis-a-vis the Iraq war that Alex is very wrong about.

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I want to take calls on a bunch of subjects today. They haven't found weapons of mass destruction, but don't worry. They're going to find some here pretty soon and say, see, we told you so I can see from what they're doing.

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That's the propaganda that they're setting up. That's the, uh, the play they're running on us right now.

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Now in 2021, looking back, I do not believe they did find.

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Yeah. You know, that's, that's Alex almost, uh, almost underestimating the government. That's Alex being like, well, you know, they wouldn't just straight up lie us into a war. Right?

Unknown Speaker (00:22:56.519)

Yeah. I mean, like if his, if his ideas were correct about how the globalists operate their level of control over everything, that's exactly what would have happened because he's writing that novel.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:08.519)

Yeah. Cause that would have been the way that they are like, see, we proved it because we set it up the whole time.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:13.519)

Instead of him really not grasping that they could just lie us into a war, which seems weird for a guy whose job is to turn lies into money.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:24.519)

Yeah. Well, it's that, that, that conversation though, about what, uh, what you need to do or how you should respond to the reality of the, the Iraq war and the lead up to it. Um, that lie isn't easily monetized. It's not, it's not super easily turned into, and that's why you need to buy my tapes.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:45.519)

Right, right, right. That's fair. That's fair. This is. Yeah. Yeah. The government is operating with complete impunity and lying to your faces about starting a war for this reason. Uh, buy my pills. No, that's like, let's do something about that.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:00.519)

To be fair, Alex isn't selling pills at this point, but what it is, uh, is, is kind of like, ah, here is the science fiction conspiracy intrigue spy novel that's going on. And if you read all my information, you'll be able to crack the code.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:16.519)

Right, right. And then we'll be able to transcend it. That's the, that's the sale that he's offering.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:21.519)

So I think that these two things, if you, if you were to listen to this episode, one of the things you would definitely take away from it is that this position on drugs and this position on the death penalty are things that Alex really wants to take calls about.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:35.519)

I think it's a slow news day for him. I think he's trying to solicit calls. Now at the same time, I don't know if I can get a sense that these are fictional versions of his positions.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:48.519)

Like, I don't think he's saying these things to try and antagonize people like someone might on a shitty call-in talk show.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:57.519)

Right, right, right, right.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:58.519)

It does seem like, oh, this, this makes sense that you could believe that. It's just stupider than I thought your positions were.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:04.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:05.519)

And so he takes calls and this one guy who calls in, he wants to sort of distinguish. When we're talking about drugs, we're talking about, like, not weed, right?

Unknown Speaker (00:25:15.519)

Sure. No, no, no, no. Those are...

Unknown Speaker (00:25:17.519)

And Alex is not chill.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:19.519)

I agree with you that cocaine, heroin, crack, methamphetamines, I do agree with you that all of those drugs are bad and all of those drugs that you'll notice are synthetically made by humans.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:30.519)

Now, marijuana I don't consider to be personally a drug and I think that's very important for people to understand that a lot of the drug laws, as they were put down as time passed, were not really made to stop the drugs but were made to...

Unknown Speaker (00:25:43.519)

Sir, let me, let me stop you. This whole line...

Unknown Speaker (00:25:45.519)

Yeah, stop him there.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:46.519)

And I agree with some of what you're going to say, but, what you've said, but look. Nightshade grows naturally, it'll kill you if you eat it, too much of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:55.519)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:56.519)

There are cyanide shows up naturally.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:59.519)

Good point.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:00.519)

And that'll kill you. So this line that marijuana isn't a drug is a joke.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:03.519)

It kind of feels like trolling.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:05.519)

You got me.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:06.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:07.519)

Well, with an argument that good, nothing I can say against that.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:11.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:12.519)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:13.519)

I feel like from Alex's branding that he wants to put forth about himself, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to be quibbling about whether or not weed's a drug when he's talking about being against drugs.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:25.519)

I think weed grows and it's, you know, it's not really that much of a drug. Oh yeah? Well, did you know poisons exist?

Unknown Speaker (00:26:31.519)

They grow.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:32.519)

Aha! Now everything's illegal.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:34.519)

Smash cut to close to the present day in Alex's smoking blunts on Joe Rogan's show.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:40.519)

Yes, exactly. You fucking hypocritical asshole.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:43.519)

Look, I like this tobacco.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:46.519)

Oh man.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:47.519)

What a jerk.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:48.519)

Yeah, he definitely cut him off before he said, you know, these drugs were illegalized because of, and then the answer to that was going to be criminalizing underrepresented groups in government, especially racism and poor men.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:00.519)

He does bring that up a little bit, this caller.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:02.519)

And Alex's like, ah, yeah, fine.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:04.519)

But he also, this caller brings up the death penalty and Alex's position on it.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:10.519)

And this caller has an interesting reason to be against the death penalty. He's coming from a utilitarian perspective.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:17.519)

He believes that the death penalty is not a deterrent.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:20.519)

I want to say, I guess another point is I see myself being against the death penalty more just because of the fact that I really don't see it as a detractor from violence.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:29.519)

Oh yes it is. It is an incredible deterrent. The death penalty is a good thing if it's done by the states or locally, not federally.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:39.519)

And now you can't believe anything this federal government hands down because of all the DNA fraud they've been involved in.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:45.519)

That's my point. We've got to get rid of the federal death penalty because this government can't be trusted.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:50.519)

I guess Alex got his wish.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:51.519)

I mean, from the moment he said those words, there were literally zero federal executions until his chosen God King Trump came into office and started wantonly killing people.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:00.519)

Yeah, I really wish he had gotten the death penalty abolished at the federal level.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:04.519)

Also, consistently, research has shown that there's no discernible deterrent effect in having a death penalty.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:10.519)

Statistically, violent crime and murder rates are lower in states that do not have death penalties.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:15.519)

And a 2018 study reported on death penalty info found that countries typically see reduction in murder rates after they abolish the death penalty.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:24.519)

The study looked at murder rates for ten years after eleven countries got rid of capital punishment, and they found that six of them had lower rates all ten years.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:33.519)

Four had one or two years above the baseline and then saw a downward trend underneath the previous level.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:39.519)

Only the country of Georgia had a higher murder rate after, and explaining exactly why that might be the case is beyond me or this study.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:46.519)

Anyway, the point here is that no credible data that would back up Alex's conjecture that the death penalty is a good deterrent for crime exists.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:54.519)

It's not a good deterrent, Dan. It's an incredible deterrent.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:57.519)

According to Alex.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:58.519)

It's almost like you can't believe how good a deterrent it is.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:01.519)

It feels like it would be, since you'd think that people would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew they might get killed for them.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:07.519)

But that feeling is not based in reality.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:10.519)

According to the CDC's numbers, the states with the three highest death rates from homicide in 2019 were Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:17.519)

All three of these states have active death penalties.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:20.519)

This shouldn't be the case if what Alex is saying is true, but it's not, because he's not living in the real world.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:25.519)

Yeah. Yeah, it seems like the death penalty exists almost to justify an emotional need in, I guess, voters.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:35.519)

Well, and I think that that's what you see when you hear Alex talking at the beginning.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:39.519)

His support for the death penalty comes out of the emotional appeal to people deserve to die.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:45.519)

And I think that that is the lowest level of reasoning that you can approach the situation from, other than, I guess, randomness.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:52.519)

That's the lowest level. Let's flip a coin.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:54.519)

I don't know, maybe.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:56.519)

Appealing to emotion of, like, I think that this person deserves to die because they committed this crime is not a well-thought-through position.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:05.519)

And obviously, you know, people's feelings are different about different crimes, and you'd get yourself in a lot of trouble if everything was organized that way.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:14.519)

That does seem to be what Alex is basing it on.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:17.519)

This caller has a slightly more evolved position than Alex, and Alex is telling them that they're wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:23.519)

Right. Yeah, no, I mean, it is that kind of feedback loop of, yes, it is the most base thing, the most base form of reasoning is that appeal to an emotion of this person did bad, bad happens to this person now.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:36.519)

You know, and that's why so many prosecutors and elected attorney positions are fucking running on those, like, look at how tough and look at how cruel I have been, because that appeals to that emotional base.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:50.519)

Law and order.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:53.519)

Yeah, it's how we get to where we are is they can exploit the lowest form of reasoning to only enact worse. God, that sucks.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:04.519)

Yeah, because I think the other thing, too, that is part and parcel with that is that the appeal to that emotion of this person deserves this because they did this crime is also an appeal to, like, your feelings of security and stability.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:18.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:19.519)

Because if you're the person who's hearing a politician be like, I'm tough on crime, really how it hits you and how you experience it isn't so much about, like, they deserve this.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:28.519)

It's I get the feeling that I will be safe from crime because this person is taking care of those things.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:35.519)

Yes, the bad people who get bad done to them.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:38.519)

Yeah, and I think that that security is an artificial emotional crutch that Alex is selling to.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:47.519)

You bet.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:48.519)

So these callers are not great.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:50.519)

Alex has another caller who's, hey, man, I got another idea about what we do about crime.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:56.519)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:57.519)

You know, America is the most technologically advanced nation on the planet, yet we still engage in barbarity and savagery.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:05.519)

You know, like I figure that you should take the criminals once it's been proven that the criminals committed these vile acts or whatever, put them on the island with their own kind and, you know, never let them off.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:20.519)

You know, that's an idea that's been tried before.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:23.519)

Where?

Unknown Speaker (00:32:24.519)

And I certainly think that if someone is convicted, take these people and put them on an island, put the violent offenders together, let them enjoy their own type, their own type of hate.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:34.519)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:35.519)

What?

Unknown Speaker (00:32:36.519)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:37.519)

I was with this guy until he got the island idea.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:41.519)

I think we should send all of our criminals around the world to one island, perhaps a continent even, a big island, huge island, just send them all there, and I'm sure it'll never come back.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:54.519)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:55.519)

I feel like this guy had some points that, you know, like we have a barbaric system in place.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:01.519)

Right, I'm listening.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:02.519)

People should be, you know, given due process and make sure that they're guilty before being punished.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:07.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:08.519)

Yeah, I'm with you.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:09.519)

Send them to an island.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:10.519)

Oh, shit.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:11.519)

Oh, boy.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:12.519)

Here's what I think we should do.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:13.519)

Restart the state of Georgia.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:15.519)

See, I feel like that clip is a really good tell that Alex isn't coming in with any real position that has an application in the real world because in the modern day, the idea of creating a penal colony is stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:27.519)

If he just wants people to call in and discuss how they'd like to punish criminals, I guess that's fine, but it is not a productive use of time.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:35.519)

It does seem like everybody's having a little bit of a fantasy, like, here's how I would punish criminals.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:40.519)

All right, now you think the death penalty's a good idea.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:43.519)

What I would do is I would fill their room with cupcakes and then cover their hands in plastic bags and open their mouths real wide and they would eat one cupcake every day.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:53.519)

See, now that's interesting.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:55.519)

That's how you self-cry someone nuts.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:57.519)

You drive someone insane.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:58.519)

Now, this caller does not have an idea that that is quite as innovative as your approach to criminal justice, but this one would not.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:06.519)

I think the state should only have the power of death, and I think it's like no quarter, no half measures.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:11.519)

If somebody's vile and wicked enough, then you have to put them to death.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:16.519)

But when you put them in prison, all that does is create a situation where, oh, that's merciful, it's okay to put somebody in prison because they walked on the grass.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:23.519)

They put nonviolent people in prison, they come out hardened thugs, it's a historical fact.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:28.519)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:29.519)

I, too, feel like there are too many people in prison, but I strongly disagree with this entire conversation.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:35.519)

This is an unhinged position that would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:39.519)

So if I were talking to this guy as a guy who is, like, hosting a radio show where you're taking calls on a subject, I have a couple questions that I would start off with.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:48.519)

All right, let's start this way. Here's my job.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:51.519)

Okay, I think the death penalty should be for everything.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:55.519)

Well, where's the line on when someone's bad enough that you gotta kill them?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:00.519)

Uh, did they step on my grass?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:02.519)

Well, no, apparently he's not for that.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:05.519)

Oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:06.519)

But, like, what offense would qualify someone for the state to commit capital punishment?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:10.519)

All violent crimes.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:11.519)

So, okay, interesting. Like, what about assault? Like, what if I just came up to you and I punched you?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:19.519)

Well, you gotta die. That's vile.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:22.519)

I don't know, man. I feel like-

Unknown Speaker (00:35:25.519)

And hands should be chopped off for property theft. If we're gonna be brutal, I'm going for it, man.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:29.519)

No, no, because he's saying that the state should not have the power to do anything except kill.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.519)

What is this deal?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:37.519)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:38.519)

What is your idea?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:39.519)

This is a completely untenable way to organize society.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:43.519)

If you think that white-collar criminals have it easy now, imagine how they would do in that kind of situation.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:48.519)

Oh my god.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:49.519)

Where the punishment is death or nothing.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:52.519)

I guess maybe this caller has an unstated position about what states can do.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:58.519)

Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:59.519)

Maybe states can have a robust criminal justice system, but the federal government can just kill.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:04.519)

Only kill.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:05.519)

But then Alex would have to disagree with that, because he doesn't think the federal government should be able to kill.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:09.519)

What about a Hunger Games scenario?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:11.519)

If we're gonna get batty and just have the federal government with the right to kill or zero kill,

Unknown Speaker (00:36:17.519)

I say we have some fun with it.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:19.519)

This is the problem with people who think they can improve society with their terrible ideas.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:23.519)

They don't have fun.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:25.519)

You just want the government to kill people?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:27.519)

No, make it a show, man.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:29.519)

What about, now here, this is not very fun.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:31.519)

I admit this is a little in the weeds.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:33.519)

Alright, alright.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:34.519)

I would like to know what this person thinks about fines.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:36.519)

I would imagine this person has received a great many fines in his day.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:43.519)

Yeah. I think that these conversations are stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:48.519)

Sir, you can't be in my office anymore.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:50.519)

Sir, this is a hundred dollar fine.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:52.519)

I'm listening to this show and I'm blown away that Alex is articulating his opposition to the death penalty and drugs the way he is.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:01.519)

And then he takes these calls and they're idiotic.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:04.519)

Insane.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:05.519)

They're completely stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:06.519)

Absolutely, absolutely insane.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:08.519)

He gets another caller and this lady, I don't know what to, I can't make heads or tails of what she's talking about.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:14.519)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:15.519)

I think I can.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:16.519)

It's just a long story.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:17.519)

A long story about, from what I can tell, the details of it are that there were some police that showed up at her house because she has some acres of land.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:28.519)

Uh huh.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:29.519)

And there was maybe something suspicious going on on some of the acres of the land that she allows other people to use.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:35.519)

And they wanted to look into what was going on.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.519)

And so she let them in and they said, thank you for letting us look around.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:42.519)

And this is a giant conspiracy of some sort.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:44.519)

Oh.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:45.519)

She's under attack.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:46.519)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:47.519)

That escalated very quickly.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:48.519)

This turns into Alex screaming.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:50.519)

Okay, okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:52.519)

Intense stuff.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:53.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:54.519)

Like this.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:55.519)

So what happened next?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:56.519)

Well, you know, they were real nice and they said, you know, we appreciate your, you know, your cooperation.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:02.519)

Oh, they're trash.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.519)

That's what, you know, and I told the children, all the children were there and we had, see, I homeschooled my children.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:08.519)

And they called GCF on you.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:10.519)

They're real nice.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:11.519)

Oh, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:12.519)

But see, my children read better than their friends.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:14.519)

What did the child grabbing services do to you after your husband died?

Unknown Speaker (00:38:17.519)

Well.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:18.519)

By the way, the hospitals have tracking records of that.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:20.519)

They know when a woman's alone.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:21.519)

They attack like predators when you're weak.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:23.519)

They're child kidnapping trash.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:26.519)

That's a little bit of an extreme response to the story that this person is telling him.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:30.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:31.519)

So like she has 70 acres of land.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:34.519)

Her husband had passed away and she does say that she allows people to use like 30 acres of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:40.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:41.519)

And there's not really a good sense that she has an idea of what's going on.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:45.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:46.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:47.519)

Some law enforcement showed up and wanted to look around, like I said, because they had reason to believe that there was something suspicious there.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:52.519)

They didn't find anything and they thanked her for her cooperation and now we've done this.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:56.519)

I fully understand standing up for your rights and if this lady had chosen to let the police look around or told them to come back with a warrant, I think either is an appropriate choice to make in her situation.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:05.519)

It's one thing to be mindful of your rights and protect them.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:08.519)

It's another thing to do what Alex is doing, where he's trying to take some very benign details this caller is giving him and escalate the story into hospitals keeping track of when you're alone so they can kidnap your kids.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:20.519)

This is a sick person acting out at his audience, even back in 2003.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:24.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:25.519)

I see a bit less of this at this point in his career, but it's pretty clear that this behavior is still part of Alex's psyche, even back at this point.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:31.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:32.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:33.519)

It's gross.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:34.519)

That's great.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:35.519)

That's a great way to calm someone down who's just had a bit of a scary experience, not used to having cops show up at their place.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:41.519)

You know, to have somebody to bounce things off of, like, hey, DCFS is following you and they're going to steal your kids at any moment.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:48.519)

That's what I want to calm me down.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.519)

And steal your land.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:51.519)

And steal your land.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:52.519)

Apparently because this caller also brings up that one of the police that showed up knew her husband, her late husband.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:00.519)

He was taking her to the land back?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:02.519)

Alex takes this to be like, oh, he knew you had land.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:05.519)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:06.519)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:07.519)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:08.519)

There's no indications.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:09.519)

This is modern day witch burning, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:12.519)

They're trying to take moneyed and propertied women.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:15.519)

And honestly, she's lucky she survived.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:18.519)

You know, like you say, big bullies, you know, just go, oh, we have a right beer.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:22.519)

They come out and the only way that you know that they're the law is because they have their shiny badge and they have their gun.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:27.519)

No, they're only a step away.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:29.519)

They're now recruiting illegals, criminals, you name it.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:32.519)

And they've caught them in California.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:34.519)

They're only a step away from walking you to the back of your house, blowing the back of your head off,

Unknown Speaker (00:40:40.519)

and throwing down a bag of marijuana and taking your land and moving into it with their fat, stinking bellies.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:47.519)

Well, I want you to know, he would not take your 9-11, the road to tyranny tape.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:51.519)

I mean, it was just phenomenal.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:55.519)

She tried to give them the 9-11 road to tyranny tape.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:58.519)

They have a 90% wake up on that, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:01.519)

Yeah, I know.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:02.519)

Cowards.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.519)

Cowards.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:06.519)

Yep.

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So apparently the police were looking to squat on this land or something.

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I don't know.

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It was a very extreme turn.

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He takes a lot of time sort of yelling at this lady.

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Seems to have a really good time.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like he's having a cracking time.

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And it all leads inevitably exactly where it's supposed to go.

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I'm sorry, Don. I just am sick of it.

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God bless you, I am too.

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And listen, you don't know how many people out here you've woke up.

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I give your tapes away.

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Yeah, I want you to make 100 copies and I want you to tell the neighborhood story and say,

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we need you to make 100 copies and for them to make 100 copies, let's have 10,000 copies of my video in that area

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so people know what they're dealing with.

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Let's expose the criminals.

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Yeah, so the only solution, everything bottlenecks to promoting Alex's stuff.

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Yeah, see that takes me back.

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That's good old fashioned religion is what that is right there.

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Oh, yes it is.

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That's somebody telling you a story and you listening to them and you being part of them

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and you giving them the spirit of God and then at the end of it,

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my friend, what you need to do is evangelize.

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That is the way you pay for your sins.

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You can hear Alex sweating of excitement from the forehead.

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We need 100 tapes out of you.

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So Alex has a guest after this.

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He goes to break, comes back, he's got a guest.

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Very exciting guest.

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Let's now go to a special guest.

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I appreciate joining me on short notice.

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Right sponsor of this show.

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It's his water sponsor guy.

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Oh, there we go.

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It's the US distributor of Black Berkey water filters is his guest.

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I'm afraid that I just don't think it's going to get much better than the soap guy.

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No.

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It's just not.

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No, I have not yet heard another guest who is so clearly abusing Alex.

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Oh, just.

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Forcing him to set up limericks.

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Yeah, that, no, no, no.

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It's just too good.

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Marty Schachter is just the best.

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Then he even exists as beautiful.

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It really is.

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It makes me feel good.

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I don't want his soap and I'm sure he's an awful person,

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but in terms of somebody who has bullied their way onto Alex's show with money

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and forced him to broadcast limericks, pretty great.

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It's pretty great.

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Yeah, but I will say this is not limerick level,

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but it is still pretty funny that this is what's going on on Alex's show.

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And it's an amazing system.

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And they have an insane deal where I told you a pallet fell over a couple of days ago.

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A few of them got broke.

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Most of them got a few scratches.

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Those that have any real damage are being thrown away.

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Instead of $199 for the two filter Black Berkey Clear filter that does dozens of gallons a day,

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tens of thousands of gallons in its lifetime,

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only $149, $50 for the scratch and dent sale.

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And a lot of these don't even have a scratch on them.

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It's a great deal, folks.

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You need to get this.

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Oh my God, a pallet fell over.

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What kind of fucking used car salesman ass?

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We got a pallet fell over, so they're $50 cheaper.

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I thought that was pretty amazing.

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I was thrilled.

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Listen, hey, it fell off the back of a truck sale.

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You walk up, you take it, you give me cash, and you go away, no questions asked.

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Yeah.

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I thought that was, I mean, low rent is the term I would use for that sales pitch.

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Almost mint condition.

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Yeah.

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Lightly used.

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Yeah.

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You probably wouldn't even be able to tell if these fell off a pallet.

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You might actually suspect that we just have too many of them and we want to move them

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until we pretend that they fell.

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I can't believe you got so lucky that you got the one good one off the broken pallet.

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That's amazing.

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$50 off for you.

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Good job.

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Every month we have a guy pretend to knock over a pallet.

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Good find.

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So we head to the 29th, and Alex, not to outdo himself, has another guest in this episode

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that he teases at the beginning of the show.

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We have another guest coming on.

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In Alabama and Georgia and other states in the south, they're having massive military

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checkpoints for the last three years in a row.

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Now, I've caught some of these on video here in Texas, but now they're routing the highway

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off the road, the cars, into the National Guard armory.

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They are ransacking vehicles, literally foaming at the mouth.

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We have seen this over and over and over again, and we've got a guest coming on to talk about

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that coming up in about 30 minutes.

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This is what the National Seat Belt Use Initiative is all about that Bill Clinton funded with

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billions of dollars a year in 98.

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Yep.

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Seat belt click of our ticket is about getting cars to armories to ransack.

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Such a weird stretch of time for us specifically.

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So much seat belt related melodrama happening.

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It's a lot of seat belts now.

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In a very short period of time for us.

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Yeah.

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It's very weird.

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And it is weird.

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It's another sign of my witchcraft that in the present day, Alex was going down to McAllen,

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Texas, and doing the Seat Belt Snitch Act.

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They're not wearing their seat belts!

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Yeah.

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It does add a little bit of hilarity that these things are sort of coexisting in our

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show at the same time.

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Yeah.

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Bananas.

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So I don't want to spoil anything for you, but this collar doesn't actually have much

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to say.

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Oh.

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It doesn't prove a lot of this.

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Oh, no.

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So this next clip gets into something that's I think a little bit murky, and there's a

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lot of, there's probably a good bit of explanation that I need to, a lot of track on this one.

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Sure.

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But Alex starts talking as very confused, and it took a while to sort of disentangle

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some of these threads.

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I heard Joyce Riley talking about the report out of Brazil yesterday, so I went and got

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the actual document.

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We're posting it on Infowars.com right now.

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Of course, this has been out for years, but I think it's important to remind people of

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it.

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It reminded me when I heard her show yesterday morning.

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And I have the actual report put out by the National Security Agency and the CIA, Population

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and National Security, 30-page report where Dr. Kissinger and others talk about exterminating

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half of the third world's population through birth control, forced sterilization, and it's

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been going on since the mid-'70s, tens of billions of dollars of your tax money to do

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it.

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And my friends, it's just amazing.

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Here's the headline.

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Brazil launches inquiry into U.S. population activities.

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Billions sterilized to meet U.S. policy objectives.

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The U.S.-sponsored program that resulted in the sterilization of nearly half of Brazil's

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women has prompted a formal congressional inquiry sponsored by more than 165 legislators

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from every political party that is represented in the Brazilian legislature.

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The investigation has ignited after information about a secret U.S. National Security Council

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memorandum on American population control objectives in developing countries was published

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in the Journal of Brazil and other major newspapers in early May.

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Now, again, this goes back to the early 90s.

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We have the 30-page report directly off the Library of Congress.

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You can link through at Infowars.com and read it.

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So just listening to this, I started with a little bit of confusion because he's talking

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about a report out of Brazil.

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And so he said that we have this report.

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And so I was like, does he have the report itself?

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What is the report?

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And it didn't make sense to me because he claims he's read this thing and he's posting

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it.

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It's a 30-page report called Population and Homeland Security.

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So I'm starting to put the pieces together, but there's no such report.

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Sure.

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This is not a report out of Brazil, this is something else.

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This is this national security report.

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Right.

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I know what he's talking about.

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It doesn't match what he's saying.

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The report he's referring to is National Security Study Memorandum 200 from December 1974.

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The subtitle of the report is, quote, Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security

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and Overseas Interest.

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But the problem is that document's 123 pages long, not 30.

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I don't know what he's talking about.

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Maybe some report about that report?

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Yeah, and you would say like, oh, maybe he only read 30 pages of it, but he didn't read

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two pages of the 30 pages that he didn't read of the 124 pages, if that.

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I don't know what the specific report he's talking about is, but I do know that underneath

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it is this NSSM 200.

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Okay.

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And we've talked about it in the past, particularly in the endgame coverage and stuff, but to

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give a brief recap of it, this is not a plan to sterilize the world.

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That's a fake version of this document that Alex has imagined because it's really about

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providing foreign aid in the form of healthcare and reproductive assistance to people in less

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developed countries, and Alex is super against that.

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He's smart enough to know that he would look like an asshole if he spent his time passionately

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yelling about how evil it is to provide healthcare to people in developing countries, so what

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he does is attack the policies and proposals to do just that by pretending that they're

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actually plans to kill everyone, and he's a hero for telling you about the evil plot.

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If you actually go read NSSM 200 after having only heard Alex yell about it, one of the

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things you'll be surprised by is how much of the document is not about providing reproductive

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options to people in the developing world at all.

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In reality, it's about the implications of the post-World War II population growth that's

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been seen around the world, and how it could impact the general stability of the world,

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mostly as seen through the prism of US interests.

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Even as it relates to fertility, the document places equal importance on programs aimed

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at quote, improved healthcare and nutrition to reduce child mortality, education and improved

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social status for women, increased female employment, improved old age security, and

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assistance for the rural poor, as it does on issues surrounding birth control.

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The word sterilization is used two times in the document in the same paragraph, when it's

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listed as one of the short-term options that are available to provide improved fertility

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control for people in the developing world.

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This is a list of options, like oral contraception, IUD, and even teaching ovulation prediction

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and the rhythm method.

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And sterilization in this context that's being used is things like tubal ligation or vasectomies.

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So that's the thing.

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Sterilization is a word that's a bit loaded.

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On the one hand, coerced or pressured sterilization is definitely hugely unethical and unacceptable,

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and there is a history of it in the world, and I'm not minimizing that.

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On the other hand, there's a long and widespread history of people using voluntary sterilization

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as a method of birth control, and Brazil is a place with an interesting history on that

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front.

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There's a much larger picture here and a bigger story to unpack than what Alex is doing.

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He's pitching a made-up version of this document from the 70s, combining it with a recent headline

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he's read from Brazil, and declaring his work done.

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In reality, he's done nothing, and he's covering up what's actually going on under the surface.

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The actual news headline here that he has is about an investigation in Brazil into the

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history of sterilizations, which was said to have been prompted by reports about NSSM-200

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in Brazilian outlets.

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Instead of talking about the details of Brazilian sterilizations and what this actual news story

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is about, Alex just rattles off his normal talking points about the memo and he pats

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himself on the back.

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That was unsatisfying for me as a listener, so I decided to look a little bit deeper into

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the subject.

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For a little background on the situation that Alex is covering, it's important to understand

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the roots of family planning history in Brazil.

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As discussed by Jose Alves, professor of the National School of Statistical Sciences at

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the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics, titled, quote, The Context of Family Planning

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in Brazil, from the early days, there was a moratorium on any sort of birth control.

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Federal Decree 2029-1 from 1932, quote, established that doctors are forbidden from indulging

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in any practice whose aim is to prevent contraception or terminate gestation.

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In 1941, a law was passed making it a crime to even advertise processes or substances

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that would be meant to encourage reproductive choice.

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As you could probably imagine, this didn't stop the public demand for birth control options,

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and beginning in 1965, a group called Family Well-Being Civil Society started providing

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some family planning services.

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Though they were unable to meet demand, and even if they could, the ability to provide

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things like oral contraception was nearly impossible in the context of Brazil's laws.

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The country was playing from behind.

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And it didn't help that in 1964, Brazil was the locale of a U.S.-supported coup that led

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to the installation of a military dictatorship that lasted until 1985.

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Over the course of that period, opinions began to soften on family planning, with it becoming

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seen more as a matter of individual rights and health decision-making.

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By the time that the real progress was being made on the issue of reproductive rights,

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there were already a ton of people in Brazil who had opted for sterilization as a means

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of birth control, and many of them were women who already had kids and didn't want more.

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That predates the NSSM 200 memo that Alex is talking about.

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One of the primary drivers I've been able to find identified as contributing to a high

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number of sterilizations in the country has to do with the period just after the end of

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the military dictatorship.

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As the country went through the process of democratization, one of the moves that was

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made was to decentralize the medical system so there would be more local control and responsibility

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for the providing of health care to the public.

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This was a decision that cut in two directions, particularly in higher-poverty, less-developed

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areas of the country.

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As explained in an article from the journal Population and Development Review from March

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2004, quote, while efforts to improve and decentralize the administration of the public

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health care system undoubtedly led to progress in a number of larger municipalities, it is

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possible that decentralization actually fueled clientelism in smaller and poorer municipalities

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by providing an additional source of assets to be used for political purposes.

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Decentralization resulted in a two-tiered system in which the better-off segments of

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the population opted for private, managed health care, while low-income groups were

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left to depend on public services of uneven or poor quality in which preventative medicine

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as well as contraception had long been undervalued.

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It was in this context, as politics and health care provision became deeply entangled and

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the demand for contraception rose among low-income groups with few alternative options for birth

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control, that sterilization acquired importance in the clientelistic exchange of medical care

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for votes.

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This paper interviewed many doctors, politicians, and 281 women from the Northeast region of

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the country who had undergone sterilization to understand the dynamics that were at play.

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From the paper, quote, considering all our sterilized respondents, 71% said that they

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took the initiative of asking for the surgery, while 22% reported that the physician had

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suggested the procedure or had provided a medical indication for it.

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People want reproductive health care that they just didn't have access to.

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One doctor they spoke with explained the prevalence of sterilizations, the reason one of them

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is that there's a shortage of other options, and even if something like the pill was available,

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it's only available, quote, on an irregular basis, which prevents, which kind of makes

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it pointless.

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Yeah.

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In this climate, where there is a demand for birth control and no access to it, people

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who are in positions to provide some access pop up.

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The authors of the paper talked to another surgeon who explained, quote, in the region,

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there are a lot of physicians involved in politics.

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The mayor is a physician, the ex-mayor, too.

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The ex-state deputy elected by the region is a hospital owner and physician.

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Therefore, they either perform the operation themselves or they ask a friend a favor.

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All these mayors are friends of physicians.

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Essentially the way it would work is that because the state wouldn't reimburse the doctor

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for performing a tubal ligation, they would do it in conjunction with another procedure

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at the patient's request in order to game the bureaucracy.

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Sure.

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Of the 281 women they spoke to, 159 had personally asked a politician for a favor to get a tubal

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ligation, and 100 said that they, quote, returned the favor by voting for them.

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78 of those 100 even, quote, tried to obtain additional votes for their benefactors.

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It's a compelling snapshot here of this mutually beneficial yet inherently exploitative system

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that arose out of the inability of people to access reliable self-directive reproductive

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health care.

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It's always so fascinating to me how I can get curious about a subject that Alex is talking

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about, scratch the surface a little bit, and find that the exact solution to it is the

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thing that he opposes the most.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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It's wild.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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And again, nothing that I'm saying is meant to minimize or pretend that eugenic applications

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of sterilization have not been used many times in history.

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That's absolutely the truth.

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Oh, of course.

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It's just that there's a wider story that exists in terms of Brazilian history than

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Alex cares to even be curious about.

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The headline he's reporting on is about this investigation in Brazil, and it's nothing

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new.

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The Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry was opened in 1967 to explore accusations of mass

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sterilizations, and another was launched in 1983.

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There was a third opened in 1991, quote, to examine the spread of female sterilization

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in Brazil and identify persons or organizations responsible for its misuse.

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This was followed by a National Congress investigation in 1992 that was to examine, quote, the possible

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racist motivations behind the provision of sterilization, the role of international agencies

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and interests, the availability of alternative birth control methods to low-income women,

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and the politically motivated use of tubal ligations.

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The result was that, quote, in its final report, the Congressional CPI echoed the findings

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of the state's investigations by noting that pervasive poverty and the lack of reproductive

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health services contributed to women's dependence on sterilization as a birth control method.

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Shocking no one.

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Not really.

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Yeah.

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It's a matter that's widely discussed, and it's something that has been investigated

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and talked about in terms of Brazil for many years.

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And I'm fairly certain that Alex doesn't even know about the existence of these previous

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investigations.

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He just thinks that recently in Brazil someone found NSSM 200 and, like, the whole thing's

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blowing up and exploding now, which is just dumb.

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Alex provides his audience with a dumb but easy to understand story that leads them to

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accepting bad positions.

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If you're opposed to sterilization being used as a birth control method, then waging a crusade

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against widespread access to alternative birth control methods is exactly the wrong way to

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do it.

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Ah, or you could have a draconian crackdown and remove all rights from women.

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Huh.

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There are two ways to go.

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Yeah.

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There are two ways to go.

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I'm not saying that one is better than the other.

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Yeah.

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One of the things that I found really difficult was that, like, I don't know, like, and obviously

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I would never say that the use of sterilization or tubal ligation, and to a lesser extent

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vasectomies, but that wasn't as widely discussed in the sources that I was able to find.

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I wouldn't ever pretend to be naive enough to think that there wasn't any abuse of it,

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and even the system that that one paper that I found discussing the clientelism aspect

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of it in poorer, less-developed areas, like, that is intrinsically exploitative.

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Oh no, the power imbalance is fucked up.

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It would never happen like this if...

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Everyone had agency.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And the what is available to be offered is an unfair exchange.

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Yeah, of course.

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I wouldn't bet that there aren't instances of also abuse.

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Yeah, of course.

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It's people.

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It's just that the stories that you hear about sterilization campaigns being used as methods

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of genocide or eugenics are what Alex wants you to think every single birth control initiative

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ever has been.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And that's unfair, because I think it's a disservice to the campaigns that have happened

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or horrors.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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No.

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Yeah.

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It's difficult for Alex simply because you can't be for any kind of birth control.

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You just can't.

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There's no way for Alex to square being like, okay, it's okay for sterilizations if there's

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no other available birth control method.

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So it always has to be wrapped up in something else being a murder.

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That's the only way you can talk about birth control through his eyes, you know?

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But his politics don't allow for you to be able to dictate what someone can do with their

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own body.

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Like if you say, I want to-

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If that person's a woman, they do.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:16.179)

Fine, then let's make it vasectomies then.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:02:19.539)

Well, exactly.

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Yeah.

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It can't ever be someone's rational choice to engage in a birth control act.

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It always has to be some sort of a conspiracy where you're tricked into it.

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Yeah.

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If there's at one time a rational choice, then that means that there are other people

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who can make that same rational choice and then all of a sudden there are a lot of things

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that you have to recontextualize as maybe that's a rational choice too until it becomes

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reasonable to assume that some forms of birth control are rational actors.

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And then your whole argument about how everybody's trying to kill you is kind of gone.

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It hurts.

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Yeah.

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So this conversation is about birth control.

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It's about reproductive rights and health.

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But Alex takes this story about Brazil and you can see him pivot it because he doesn't

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know really what anything is about and he has a certain amount of talking points.

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And he makes it about vaccines because he also believes that they're trying to sterilize

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the third world through putting secret stuff in vaccines and stuff.

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And so he just takes this story and makes it about that because it works.

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This is the mindset.

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When you go ahead and take your vaccines, America, people wonder why the male sperm

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count is down by 76% as of 2000.

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I haven't seen the numbers in 2001 yet or 2002.

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They come out years after Europe's sperm count is down by a report.

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I know dozens of women that are friends of the family who are healthy, who don't use

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drugs, who are 30 years old, who cannot have children.

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Europe's population in some cities is off by 50%.

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Overall the next 30 years, Europe will lose about 40% of its population.

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Whole cities are ghost towns now in Germany and France and England.

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They're replacing them with immigrants from the third world.

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So you can see what the policy has done.

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It's not just in Africa and Latin America.

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So you go ahead and take your tetanus shot.

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You go ahead and give your daughter that tetanus shot and you wonder why she can't give you

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grandchildren 15, 20 years from now.

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Okay.

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No grandchildren for you.

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No grandchildren for you.

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It is still about vaccines that he's yelling no grandchildren for you.

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No grandchildren for you.

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Yep.

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Has anybody had any grandchildren?

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To get into a white fear there quite a bit, yeah, some people have grandkids.

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In the past 20 years, I have not heard of any new grandkids.

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Now, I mean, technically in the past two years I have had three combined nieces and nephews

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appear into this world.

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Yeah, so have I.

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But, but, who's grandchildren, oh God, this is so stupid, so stupid, so stupid.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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I don't want to speak too much about like not believing Alex because I feel like I do

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it too much.

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Yeah.

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But I wonder if these people that he knows who can't have kids are made up or like the

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lieutenant colonels he talks about all the time.

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I don't know.

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I got to tell my, I got to tell my family to start vaccinating their kids if they want

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them to stay at that baby.

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You know how some people are like, oh, I wish they could stay this age forever.

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Right.

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Guys, COVID vaccine now, three years old forever.

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I, I, Jordan, I just had a terrifying moment.

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What's that?

Unknown Speaker (01:05:44.699)

I have to make a correction.

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Oh no.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:46.699)

Um, I said that Alex makes things up.

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I have to, I forgot.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:50.460)

Folks, you've been listening to the show for four or five years, six years, some of you,

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some of you eight years, you live here in Austin and you know, I don't make stuff up.

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I post the documents on info wars.com for the five years we've had the website.

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We tell the truth here and I'm sorry if the truth is scary, but truth is stranger than

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fiction and you had better wake up.

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I mean the evil is spiraling out of control now is the time to stand up for America.

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We have got to do it now.

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We could not wait any longer.

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Certainly can't wait 18 more years.

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No, no, no, no, no, no.

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It's gotta be done now.

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Yeah.

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Gotta be done now.

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So I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry that I claimed that Alex made things up.

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I forgot that he said that he doesn't make things up.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:39.420)

No, I think he's got a good case for a libel.

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Yeah, probably.

Unknown Speaker (01:06:43.659)

So here's something that Alex is making up.

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Sure.

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The average doctor giving you the shot is mandated by the AMA.

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It's not a law, but he will try to bully you into it.

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How dare you question him.

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The AMA says it's good.

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It must be good.

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The AMA is a corporate body owned by the military industrial complex.

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What?

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That's compartmentalization.

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Only the people working at the vaccine plants at the higher levels, only a few hundred know

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what they're doing and they're all CIA.

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What?

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Many of them are Nazis, ladies and gentlemen, literally.

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We are under attack, ladies and gentlemen, and you've got to face the facts.

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All right.

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That escalated three levels very quickly.

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AMA, no.

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You thought it was doctors, bullshit.

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Military industrial complex.

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Sure.

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What's that?

Unknown Speaker (01:07:37.860)

No.

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You thought it was military industrial complex?

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300 people know the real truth.

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About vaccines.

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What's that?

Unknown Speaker (01:07:44.260)

You think it's just 300 people?

Unknown Speaker (01:07:45.260)

No.

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It's 300 Nazis.

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CIA Nazis.

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CIA Nazis.

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Literal Nazis.

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I just also like to see this in sort of relationship with Alex complaining about everyone calling

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him a Nazi.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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He calls everybody Nazis in the past.

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You are...

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Everybody.

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Seatbelts.

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Seatbelts are a problem.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:08.139)

Well, but that's because they are.

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That is true.

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Yeah.

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That's all right.

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And his history has borne out that he is taking it much more seriously in the present.

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It seems like it.

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Anyway, as we discuss on pretty much every 2003 episode, one of the things I'm most interested

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in is trying to figure out if Alex believes he's fighting the literal Christian devil.

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Yes.

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I'm still not sure.

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Damn it.

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Although this gets me a little closer.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:35.220)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:36.220)

Everything is just bonkers, ladies and gentlemen.

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We are under massive attack by what can only be described as pit of Hades satanic forces.

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Ooh.

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I mean, it just freaks me out every day to do this show.

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I cannot believe how insane things have gotten.

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That was getting so close to the I gotta quit.

Unknown Speaker (01:08:59.619)

That was.

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That was really close.

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But yeah.

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But it can be described as pit of hell forces.

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Yeah.

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That's good enough.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:08.819)

That's not quite there.

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Damn it.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:10.819)

It's close though.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:11.819)

That's not quite there.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:12.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:13.819)

And even though he said massive attack, the song is named Angel, not Devil.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:16.460)

True.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:17.460)

So we can't go that angle if we want.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:19.020)

Maybe he's a big fan of Tricky.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:21.579)

Could be.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:22.579)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:23.579)

Could be.

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Also, Teardrop.

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Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:26.579)

Yep.

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There was that one.

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Theme song from House.

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What was the...

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Didn't they do the entire sound trick for a Jet Li movie where he was...

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Jet Li.

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Jet Li.

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He was a dog.

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Jet Li was captured by a British gangster and he was raised as a...

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Probably.

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I would bet you a dollar...

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I think Morgan Freeman was in that one.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:47.220)

Why not?

Unknown Speaker (01:09:48.220)

I bet you a dollar they're on the Snatch soundtrack.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:49.220)

Oh, they're on the Snatch soundtrack, my friend.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:52.220)

Don't you dare say they're not.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:53.539)

Even if they're not, they are.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:54.739)

They are.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:55.739)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:56.739)

Spiritually, they are the Snatch soundtrack.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:58.579)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:59.579)

So Alex has this caller coming in to talk about seat belt stuff ending up in ransacking

Unknown Speaker (01:10:04.279)

at the armory.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:05.420)

We're about to go to Bill McFarlane, who's in Alabama, who has seen these massive military

Unknown Speaker (01:10:10.939)

checkpoints with the black helicopters the whole nine yards.

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We've gotten these on video in Texas, but they're intensifying it.

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It's been going on since before 9-1-1, and during the click-it-or-tick-it system, the

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Army directed people into the National Guard armory.

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That's coming up in just one moment.

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But first, ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you about HerbalHealer.com.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:33.800)

That sucks, but it's also like, all right, there's no passion behind it.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:39.140)

It's clearly paid programming or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:42.100)

It's clearly an ad.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:44.300)

I don't think that that's unethical.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:45.819)

I think it's a little bit disjointed somewhat, but whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:51.300)

It's how you would expect ads to work in a radio show.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:54.779)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:55.779)

And the reason that I'm playing it, even though it is more like, here's a topic we're going

Unknown Speaker (01:10:59.220)

to get into.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:00.220)

Before we get to that, I want to talk to you about a sponsor.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:03.180)

Like, I'm playing that because that's not how he does it in later times.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:08.140)

It's so eroded.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:09.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:10.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:11.140)

No, that's almost like a 1950s TV show where they would cut in with an actual actor from

Unknown Speaker (01:11:15.500)

the show and be like, I know we're having a grand time watching this thing going on,

Unknown Speaker (01:11:19.500)

but first let me tell you about Thompson's...

Unknown Speaker (01:11:21.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:22.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:23.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:24.859)

I also think that Alex's sales pitch is a little underwhelming.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:27.020)

Ancient knowledge that's been passed on.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:30.819)

They've got books for your region on naturally occurring treatments and cures.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:36.380)

They have...

Unknown Speaker (01:11:37.380)

It's ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:38.380)

I'm looking at their catalog here, folks.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:40.899)

This thing is a hundred pages long.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:44.659)

They've got natural remedies to get the parasites out of your body that most people have.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:51.220)

Apple cider vinegar plus formula one, super X.

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Super X.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:58.100)

Folks, it goes on and on.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:00.739)

Correspondence courses, it goes on and on and on.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:05.460)

Just get the free catalog or you're insane.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:08.020)

It doesn't feel like someone who's super familiar with a super X.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:15.819)

I like whenever you're doing an ad read and in the middle of it, you get mad that you

Unknown Speaker (01:12:20.100)

have to continue doing it.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:21.619)

It goes on and on.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:22.619)

It just goes on and on.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:23.619)

It's a hundred pages, this catalog.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:24.619)

It just goes on and on.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:25.939)

Just get the...

Unknown Speaker (01:12:26.939)

You're insane.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:28.899)

So this guy calls in or this guest, because this guy might as well be a fucking caller,

Unknown Speaker (01:12:34.340)

but he's a guest.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:35.500)

He's a bonafide guest who has some experience with the click it or ticket campaign, I guess.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:41.579)

That takes you to the armory.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:43.539)

I don't know if this guy actually, I mean, he definitely didn't say that he did.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:47.380)

Well, I would imagine that would be hard.

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So I was listening to the details of this guy's story and from everything I can tell,

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there was just like a traffic stop.

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Sure.

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And he didn't have to stop.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:00.340)

Oh.

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But other people did.

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Okay.

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And Alex makes it a little bit racial.

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Okay.

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We were allowed to pass through, although we drove very, very slowly after the stop.

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Yeah, they just randomly picked cars out.

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They randomly...

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They're saying they stopped the Volvo with the old people.

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They stopped the Volvo with a very old couple in it.

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And as we drove slowly past them...

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Those that don't know, they will have CIA FEMA operators, the type listeners you've

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seen in the road of tyranny in Kansas City, teaching a classroom of police that, quote,

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Christians, founding fathers are terrorists.

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So what if they have to die?

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We have the training manuals, constitutionalist, homeschoolers, if you look conservative, and

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we've seen these happen.

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If you've got a giant turbine on your head, you speed through.

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The FEMA directors on the ground will direct the young troops and the police to go after

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middle America.

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This is training them.

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That middle America was a little telling there.

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Middle America.

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Going after middle America.

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Also that clip is about a minute long, and it begins with this guy who's the caller saying

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that he went right through the checkpoint.

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I didn't hear the part where he said, I was wearing a giant turbine.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:14.100)

Well, I mean, that's assumed with all of those conversations, just because if you are driving

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through Austin, you know the only way to avoid the cops is by wearing...

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A turbine.

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This guy's not in Austin, to be fair.

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He's in Alabama.

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He's in Alabama.

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He's in Alabama.

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Traditionally, I have not seen turbines treated well in Alabama.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:34.979)

Well, you haven't been to a checkpoint.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:36.979)

You haven't been to a click at her ticket.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:39.779)

That's true.

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I have not had to click at her ticket in Alabama.

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This interview is the definition of why is this happening.

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I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:50.420)

You went to a checkpoint.

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You saw a couple of people get pulled over, and now, look, I mean...

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I had a small percentage chance of receiving a ticket, so Alex is going to turn this into

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a vast racial conspiracy to destroy white people.

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Mm-hmm.

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Basically.

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Yeah.

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That sounds about right.

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So there's another story that Alex is trying to make people scared about, and it has to

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do with fingerprint scans being used for school lunches, and we'll talk about that a tiny

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bit after he pretends to be very emotional about it.

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Sad.

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20 years ago, making some 1984 movie or brand-new world movie, you know, a PHX-1138 type film

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where the kids... imagine a future movie.

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Imagine if they'd have made America with a K with Chris Kristofferson and where the communists

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take over, and imagine the movie, the kids having to thumb scan to get food.

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You'd have been, oh, that'll never happen.

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Imagine that nightmare future, and now there are dozens of school districts that we know

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of in Texas that are doing it.

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It's happening in England to get library books, to get food.

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Oh man, I mean, come on!

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And simultaneously it's going in the driver's license facilities, the banks, the grocery

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stores people, from Kansas to New York to Texas.

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Come on.

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You want to fight these people, get my videos, make hundreds of copies, air them on Access

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TV, over and over again.

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The only way to solve these problems are to promote Alex's products.

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It just seems almost too easy.

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Yeah.

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It seems almost too easy to defeat the globalists.

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All roads lead to that bottleneck of the solution is free publicity for Infowars.

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It's really convenient for him.

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So this story about the fingerprinting, this wasn't mandatory.

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Students could choose to use a PIN number instead of their fingerprint if they wanted

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to, and from a 2005 article about this program, quote, about four percent of students have

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chosen that option, which is, they're right, they can choose that if they want.

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Apparently this is a really good system for school lunches for a couple of reasons.

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The first is that it streamlines overcrowded school lunch lines, which is a problem in

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many overcrowded schools.

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The second is that by making the transaction uniform in appearance, you completely eliminate

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the stigma that many kids feel if they're on lunch assistance programs.

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I haven't been in school in a while, but when I was, I do remember that the kids who got

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free lunch got picked on for being poor.

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And that system that you have there eliminates that possibility, which I think is a really

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good thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:15.939)

Yeah, it's a shitty system where you, just by being born, are made fun of.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:19.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.819)

In terms of privacy issues, there are definitely some things, but they were discussed and the

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positives outweighed the concerns, and the concerns were addressed.

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A copy of the student's fingerprint is connected to a unique identifier, but the stored data

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isn't the actual fingerprint.

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Also, quote, parents who do not want their child fingerprinted may obtain an opt-out

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form.

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Of course.

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Of course.

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So, none of this, uh, I don't know, I just don't care.

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I don't know why this is the most pressing issue in the world.

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Your argument to me can never be, can you imagine making a sci-fi film in the seventies

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and thinking, oh, they'll use their fingerprints to get lunches.

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That's nothing to me.

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Every time I use my fucking credit card, I tap it against a thing and it references a

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ridiculous amount of information about me in an instant and then comes back and they

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know it all.

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No one cares.

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The, the notion of creating a database of children's fingerprints, um, is a little bit

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fucked up.

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Sure.

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And that's not what they were doing.

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And secondarily, it was also fucked up, the idea, like, this is a concern that I think

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is very legitimate, is if you keep that all on file, that seems like something someone

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could hack.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.140)

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:37.140)

But that concern is also addressed in not storing the fingerprints, uh, but storing

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as like numerical identifiers.

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Perfect.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:44.899)

Um, and, and so they, you know, it's, it's not like these concerns weren't something

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that the people who put this, uh, system, uh, into place didn't think about.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:55.380)

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it does seem like all too often, many of the complaints that Alex brings towards

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any kind of system are things that you could just address and instead of being like ultimate

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flaws in the system, they're just like bugs that you can work out.

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The real complaints that he has or the ones that are based in reality are things that

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people are aware of and other people are conversing about in reasonable, rational tones, based

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in reality kind of way.

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Yeah.

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Um, the things that are nonsense that he's yelling about are all just things to be appeals

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to the emotions of the audience in order to bring them closer to that bottleneck that

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gets them to making a hundred copies of his movie.

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Jesus.

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And you got to do it, man, or else.

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I want you to get the videos and I want you to make a copy when you go to work in the

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morning and a copy.

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When you go to sleep at night, two copies a day, $2 a day and a $50 VCR.

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I want you to get the videos or 2595 order three or more of any of the nine films.

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They dropped down to 20.

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I want you to do it now.

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It's waking people up.

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We got to save this country.

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Do it now.

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Please make the call, get in the fight or it's over folks.

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Get in the fight by reproducing videos to give to people as free promotion or it's over

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this awful, man, for an initial investment of $50 and just $2 a day, you can make sure

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that Alex Jones will be richer than you can imagine.

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Can you, can you just open your heart?

Unknown Speaker (01:20:27.880)

This sales pitch is not compelling.

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Can you change it to saving America then it's going to work.

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If you don't make this $2 a day sacrifice, click it or ticket soldiers to your home,

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rip your children away from you, take them to a 70 acre high schoolers with submachine

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guns in gray uniforms and Daleks with guns wandering the streets.

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It's chaos for just $2 a day though.

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So Alex does talk a little bit about 9-11 stuff during this period, but not in any way

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that like, I feel like we're going to go ahead and cover this now, but one of the things

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that I find really fascinating is listening to how his tone is so different from the present.

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Like when he's asked direct questions like what happened with 9-11 now, he'll be like,

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you know what?

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I don't know.

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There's not a lot of questions in 2003.

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He's like, I know every certain, I know names.

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He made a movie about it, multiple movies, he should know about it.

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They should know everything about it.

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Yeah.

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It's like, I know everything.

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Look, we got them.

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Dead to rights.

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We have all the proof.

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Now in the present, he's like, yeah, I think I kind of forgot.

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It is interesting that he's in a place where it's like somehow he exists in a space where

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we've learned less in the intervening time from when he started.

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Yeah.

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We've somehow forgotten all the information.

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About what should be the most important thing for him to understand inside and out.

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Your entire career is based off of this thing.

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I find myself every now and again, remembering that in the present day, he doesn't answer

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direct questions about it and it gets really funny.

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It's one of the things that makes this very tolerable.

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Another thing that makes this tolerable, Jordan.

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Have we hit the caller that you're excited about?

Unknown Speaker (01:22:22.619)

Yes we have.

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Mike the fuck down.

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Okay.

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Grant in Minnesota.

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Grant, you're on the air worldwide.

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Speaking of out of control, I was recently just surrounded by the military on an unsigned

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search warrant looking for bombs and explosives.

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I was lured away from the court by activists on false charges.

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While I was there, I have Siberian tigers on my property.

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While I was there, the military surrounded the place as they were confiscating my tiger

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cub.

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The military were high-fiving each other and laughing.

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And the-

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Was this in the newspaper?

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No.

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We need to call the newspaper.

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That's very newsworthy.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:08.819)

No shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:09.819)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:10.819)

Well, are you, are you telling me that all that happened is we just missed out on Tiger

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King by 20 years because nobody was listening to Alex Jones' show?

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Is that what's really going on here?

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This is not Joe Exotic.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:24.020)

Yeah, but I was like, holy shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:29.300)

You can't get calls like this on regular shows.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:32.699)

No, you cannot.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:33.699)

You have to have a crazy show because you'll get crazy calls.

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You cannot get this call from Howard Stern.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:40.340)

And if you did, it would be an actor or something.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:41.819)

Yeah, it'd be bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:42.819)

You wouldn't trust it.

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There's something like about this that I just couldn't resist getting to the bottom of.

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I was like, I've already spent a bit of time preparing this episode.

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This is towards the end of May 29th, and I'm like, fuck it.

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Starting over.

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I don't care.

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It's time for you to save that tiger cub.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:58.500)

Exactly.

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You've got to save that tiger cub.

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So here, there's a caller on Alex's show who had a Siberian tiger taken away from him in

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a raid.

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That's gotta be in some newspaper somewhere, right?

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There's a red alert.

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That's gotta be something.

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For me, it's like, no way.

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I had absolutely no idea where to go with this, but I used some clues and I was able

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to find something that looked promising.

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So this caller says that he is in Minnesota.

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Honestly, how many Siberian tiger seizures could there possibly be in Minnesota every

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year?

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I don't know.

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So I found an article in the Albert Lee Tribune from January 2003 about a raid on a house

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where a female baby tiger was taken, quote, because the owners did not have a permit for

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possessing the wild animal.

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This seems like a winner.

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It seems close.

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It seems close.

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It's sounding right.

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The problem, though, is that the owner of this tiger is a 17-year-old kid who said that

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his 15-year-old sister is the pet's owner.

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I don't know.

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A what now?

Unknown Speaker (01:24:54.380)

I don't know much, but I don't believe that this caller is 17.

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No.

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Then I read this little nugget in the Tribune article, quote, PETA also emphasized the past

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record of the child's father, who has also lived in the house, saying it indicates the

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family's inability to provide appropriate care for the tiger.

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The father was barred from having a pet by the court in October 2001 as a penalty for

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a cruelty to animals conviction.

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However, the child said his father is not living at the residence anymore.

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I'm intentionally not using these people's names, because as I was getting into this,

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I had no idea if they are the people who are involved in talking to the house, but it was

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like how many raids resulting in the confiscation of a baby tiger went down in the first few

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months of 2003 in Minnesota?

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I can't imagine that the number's higher than one.

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And now we know that this is a family business.

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I found a follow-up article that includes some other bizarre details.

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Apparently that whole thing, the tiger seizure, was set in motion because the child, quote,

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had scratches and bite marks and was falling asleep in class.

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When asked what was up, he, quote, told a teacher that he lived with a tiger and it

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smelled bad.

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Police searched the house and found a malnourished 35 pound tiger cub as well as a bunch of urine

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and feces.

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Aww.

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Very sad.

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Poor tiger.

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I was completely obsessed with this story by this point, so I had to keep looking around.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:11.779)

Yeah.

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And this was the story of this person who's calling in to Alex's show.

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I can match the story to the caller.

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It was very exciting.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:19.939)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:20.939)

I can see.

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I can see.

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It's palpable.

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So I was able to find a list put out by PETA of all tiger cub related incidents in the

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United States, and guess what?

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This was not the tiger case that prompted this call to Alex's show.

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Wow.

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I was able to find Grant, this caller, on the list from PETA.

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So that means in the first five months of 2003, there were two tiger cub incidents in

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Minnesota.

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What are the fucking odds?

Unknown Speaker (01:26:44.939)

To be fair though, I do want to make this clear, the guy who was keeping the tiger cub

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at home with his kid, the story we just talked about, did buy his tiger from this caller.

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So there is a connection.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:55.659)

I knew that there had to be some kind of connection.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:02.100)

There's, you had to know there's a...

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Man, that's just awful.

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So this guy is named Grant, and he ran a business called Tiger Zone, and he's also pretty full

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of shit about how this didn't make any news outlets.

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The reason he's in trouble here is that in March 2003, one of his tigers, quote, bit

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a 16-year-old girl and grabbed and bit a pregnant woman on the wrist.

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Jesus Christ!

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Yeah.

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So Tiger Zone was a place where people could come and look at exotic animals.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:28.020)

Yeah, of course.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:29.479)

There had been reports of people being attacked by his cats in the past, but people had been

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reluctant to press charges until this incident, which led to the downfall of Tiger Zone and

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a police search of Grant's home where they found some guns.

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This would not be the end of Grant trying to hurt people with tigers.

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In 2005, he was arrested after a woman who was employed cleaning up after some of his

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tigers was attacked and seriously wounded.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:51.340)

Anyway, this guy is lying to Alex about the circumstances of his run-in with the police.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:55.220)

And yes, Jordan, you brought up Tiger King.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:57.859)

After the success of that documentary, Grant's nephew tried to kickstart a documentary about

Unknown Speaker (01:28:02.180)

this whole thing, but it apparently didn't take off.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:04.260)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:05.260)

And also, in the kickstarter, it says, this is not just because Tiger King happened.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:08.579)

Yeah, it sounds like that's exactly what you would say if it was just because Tiger King

Unknown Speaker (01:28:12.500)

happened.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:13.500)

I think that there's probably a very interesting story to what happened with this guy.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:17.659)

Because I did watch the trailer for his documentary, and I think that there's probably some experiences

Unknown Speaker (01:28:22.819)

of people who were involved that are worth hearing about.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:26.659)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:27.659)

Like, I don't know if it's this guy's daughter or who the person is, but there's someone

Unknown Speaker (01:28:31.699)

who's in the trailer talking very passionately about how hard it was to watch people take

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away these tigers that she knew and cared about as friends or pets, and how they were

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treating them very harshly.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:47.939)

I think that's a valuable thing to hear about, and people, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:53.960)

But this guy, he wasn't lured to court by false charges where the military, looking

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for bombs, took his tiger cub.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:03.060)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:04.060)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:05.060)

And I would say that the fact that he sold a tiger to this person who was keeping it

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in their house, and the tiger was peeing and shitting in the house, and recklessly around

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this child, it means that he's not necessarily doing due diligence and vetting who is able

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to adopt these animals.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:25.579)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:26.579)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:27.579)

And that to me is a red flag, along with the multiple people who were attacked by his animals.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:32.979)

Man, all kinds of shit's a red flag.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:34.819)

I mean, just like, hey, private exotic animal zoo is the biggest red flag I can think of.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:42.699)

I don't know if that's actually the case.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:44.859)

I mean, I can understand why you think that, and I think a lot of times it is.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:49.260)

But I don't want to stigmatize people who do actually take care of animals.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:53.260)

No, sure, that's awesome.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:54.779)

Yeah, but a lot of times in order to make enough money to provide care for some of these

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animals, you may need to have people be able to come look at them.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:04.300)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:05.300)

I think that there are people who do that responsibly and within the parameters of it's

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not nuts.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:11.779)

I agree, and I would say that it's probably more than the others.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:15.979)

I would say there are more people who do it responsibly than irresponsibly.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:19.819)

At the same time, still a red flag to me.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:23.140)

That's one of those industries where it's not, I mean, and it's not even like I think

Unknown Speaker (01:30:26.420)

it's evil or malicious or anything.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:28.699)

It's just like there should always be somebody, there should always be a neutral third party

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observer on the ground at all time being like, that's not okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:36.899)

Well there should be regulation.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:37.899)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:39.260)

That's what it is.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:40.260)

And there is.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:41.260)

It's one of those industries though where you can't even have, any self reporting is

Unknown Speaker (01:30:45.939)

just not possible.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:47.920)

There are regulations, but it probably needs to be better.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:51.020)

For reasons of human safety and the welfare of the animals themselves.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:56.380)

What that guy was doing to that fucking tiger and his kid just is fucking disgusting.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:01.979)

And again, just to be totally clear, that is not the caller.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:05.180)

Different guy.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:06.180)

Although the guy did sell the animal, which is, you know, you're implicated a tiny bit

Unknown Speaker (01:31:11.699)

for not being, like if you're fucking selling a tiger in Minnesota, you should do a lot

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of background work on who are you selling this to?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:21.020)

Can they possibly take care of a fucking Siberian tiger?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:26.260)

Are they a person who's going to put the tiger in their basement?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:29.220)

If so, you don't get a tiger.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:31.699)

Surprise!

Unknown Speaker (01:31:32.699)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:33.699)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:34.699)

So Alex talks to this guy and he's very excited about this story.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:36.500)

Oh, of course he is.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:37.500)

Because he thinks that there's no media coverage of it or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:42.899)

I think he thinks like, oh, I got a fresh lead here on some government abuse that's

Unknown Speaker (01:31:47.619)

going on.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:48.619)

Breaking news, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:49.619)

And so like this guy tells his story or his version of it and Alex just accepts it unquestioningly.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:54.699)

And I think like this is kind of bad.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:58.380)

So what exactly happened to you, sir?

Unknown Speaker (01:32:00.380)

And what developed?

Unknown Speaker (01:32:03.060)

Activists were, all the girls, they have to, all they have to do is say somebody got scratched

Unknown Speaker (01:32:07.779)

and they'll come in and, all somebody has to do is lie to the police.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:12.140)

And this girl lied in court five times on the stand, three times on the court.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:15.579)

So it was a endangered species grabber went and lied in court.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:19.779)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:20.779)

I know, I've seen those stories in the press.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:23.100)

And so what happened?

Unknown Speaker (01:32:24.100)

The troops hit you, it hit you hard.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:25.680)

So yeah, this 16 year old who got attacked by one of his cats just lied.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:32.899)

Yep, yep, she lied in court five times and in writing three times.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:37.920)

So the story was exactly the same every time.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:40.340)

And that's how you know she's lying.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:41.819)

Well, I mean, like, hey, you know, this is an interesting way to present a story to Alex

Unknown Speaker (01:32:49.420)

Jones.

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Police should not just accept immediately, oh, they're lying about what happened because

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maybe someone got attacked by a lion, or I'm sorry, a tiger.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:00.420)

I just, I think that it's unquestioningly accepting this guy's version of the story

Unknown Speaker (01:33:05.079)

only serves to use them as a prop to push your, the government's out of control and

Unknown Speaker (01:33:10.100)

want to take your tiger's narrative, which is silly.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:13.300)

Yeah, and there's a bit of a credibility gap.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:16.239)

There's a bit of a credibility gap, I would say.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:18.819)

I think also there's a, just an inherent issue with, I know that it's 2003 and Alex isn't

Unknown Speaker (01:33:25.420)

as, you know, gross a figure in the public consciousness as he is now at this point,

Unknown Speaker (01:33:31.439)

but this guy saw fit to call Alex and talk about this story and that, that's an indicator.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:37.739)

Yeah, that tells you what kind of reaction he's looking for at the very least.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:41.500)

Yeah, or where he would go to get the story out.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:44.300)

Where am I going to get a positive spin on this story because it won't be anybody legitimate.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:49.579)

Yeah, got to get those tigers.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:51.420)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:52.420)

Anyway, that was a fun little path of trying to figure out like, cause I had so many walls

Unknown Speaker (01:33:58.939)

I ran into trying to sort out what happened here and the issue is like, there were too

Unknown Speaker (01:34:05.260)

many kernels of information that I'm like, there's no possible way I can't figure out

Unknown Speaker (01:34:10.359)

who this guy is that I just had to keep pushing.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:13.319)

Look at how specific this has to be and there, it happened four times.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:17.340)

That's not possible.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:18.399)

That's not possible.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:19.399)

It can't.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:20.399)

No, it can't.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:21.399)

It's so weird.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:22.399)

Like there's not other, there aren't other years where multiple instances of, of tiger

Unknown Speaker (01:34:27.579)

incident like happened in Minnesota.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:30.140)

Look, I know that America has the most concentrated number of tigers just because of private ownership,

Unknown Speaker (01:34:37.020)

but not, not like, it's not like a Minnesota thing, right?

Unknown Speaker (01:34:41.779)

Like I'm looking over this list and like in 2000, the year 2000, this list from PETA,

Unknown Speaker (01:34:46.859)

there were two incidents regarding tigers in natural bridge of Virginia, but that's

Unknown Speaker (01:34:53.739)

because they both happened at the same zoo.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:56.060)

See there you go.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:57.300)

That makes sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:58.300)

It does.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:59.300)

Sort of.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:00.300)

It makes sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:01.300)

It's so nuts that there's two different separate stories in Minnesota.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:07.539)

I mean, granted, I guess the fact that he sold it makes them connected stories.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:11.140)

I mean, you know, but that, it does make sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:14.239)

If you've got a disreputable tiger zoo operator who is willing to sell cubs, you are going

Unknown Speaker (01:35:21.340)

to find out you have more than one incident about tigers in your, in your region very

Unknown Speaker (01:35:26.619)

soon.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:27.619)

That is, that is probably a truism.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:29.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:30.859)

So here Alex complains about how you'll be arrested for pissant stuff like in Germany.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:36.779)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:37.779)

If you don't open your mouth at the dentist, your parents will be arrested or something.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:40.939)

That a tiger will bite you.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:42.260)

And then Alex says something really fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:45.220)

Finding and arresting parents in Germany and England, if they refuse to open their mouths

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to the dentist, they are doing so in Ohio, in Pennsylvania, they take five year olds

Unknown Speaker (01:35:54.500)

and do genital checks.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:56.739)

They caught a lesbo ring doing it in one area.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:59.859)

You all heard about that.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:00.859)

A what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:01.859)

A what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:02.859)

A what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:03.859)

A what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:04.859)

A what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:05.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:06.859)

What is that?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:07.859)

That caught me a bit off guard.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:08.859)

For, to, for what purpose?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:16.060)

To whom?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:17.460)

And also who are they?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:18.779)

Also like even leaving aside whatever the reality of this story is, why are you articulating

Unknown Speaker (01:36:23.720)

it this way?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:24.720)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:25.720)

Why is that the way?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:26.720)

That doesn't make it.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:27.720)

Boo.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:28.720)

Boo.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:29.720)

So Alex has a hour plus interview with a guy named Michael Haga and I don't know who this

Unknown Speaker (01:36:35.140)

guy is.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:36.140)

He apparently wrote a book that I can't find even by googling the name of the book.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:40.579)

That's not good.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:41.579)

I don't know how to spell his last name.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:43.020)

That's not great.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:44.020)

Haga?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:45.020)

How do you spell that?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:46.020)

So many ways.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:47.020)

Could be any way.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:48.020)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:49.020)

I tried a number of different spellings.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:50.020)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:51.020)

EH?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:52.020)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:53.020)

And he, I tried to figure out just like what the bottom line about him was but I wasn't

Unknown Speaker (01:36:57.619)

really that interested so I don't really mind that I didn't figure it out because he's just

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kind of a guy who is the standard New World Order talking points.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:06.220)

Just kind of someone who's playing a game of boring ping pong with Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:09.380)

There's hitting the ball back and forth until...

Unknown Speaker (01:37:12.819)

I find it fitting that he didn't get enough traction from being on Alex's show to penetrate

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the consciousness to the point where he's even googleable so it makes more sense for

Unknown Speaker (01:37:22.560)

him to definitely not even penetrate onto our show.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:25.500)

True.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:26.500)

And I think that I probably would ignore his appearance because it's really boring until

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they end up taking calls.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:32.180)

Ooh.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:33.180)

Now you're talking.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:34.180)

Things do not go well.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:35.699)

Mr. Hager, I first started listening to you back around 1992, 1993 on the American Freedom

Unknown Speaker (01:37:42.180)

Network.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:43.180)

Uh huh.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:44.180)

And I listened to you religiously back then.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:45.579)

I was working in a bank myself handling the mutual funds and annuities and other insurance

Unknown Speaker (01:37:49.899)

products for the bank.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:52.420)

And I took your advice.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:53.420)

I got out of the market when I was setting, the Dow Jones was setting a 3300 and I bought

Unknown Speaker (01:37:58.939)

$415 gold and I'm still waiting for my gold to come back and the market's been to 11,

Unknown Speaker (01:38:04.420)

6 and back and forth.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:05.420)

I bought a few of your books and I put them up on my bookcase and they're right beside

Unknown Speaker (01:38:09.659)

my copies of The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:13.380)

So you said in that book that you're a little bit premature.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:16.819)

I guess you were about 7 or 8 years on the peak of the market.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:20.659)

I guess what I'm hearing you say today, Mr. Hager, with all due respect is anybody that

Unknown Speaker (01:38:25.619)

reads Alex Jones' Infowars.net or Infowars.com and stays abreast of the current mainstream

Unknown Speaker (01:38:34.899)

publications and stuff, I'm not hearing anything new out of you, Mr. Hager.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:38.659)

I'm still waiting for the $35,000 gold.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:43.140)

Have you been watching gold?

Unknown Speaker (01:38:44.539)

Yeah, I've been watching it.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:45.899)

I've been watching it for the last 9 years, you know.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:48.500)

Well, I haven't recommended it that far back.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:50.899)

Oh yeah, you were on American Freedom now.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:52.819)

I listened to you religiously back then and would call into your talk shows.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:55.819)

Well, it was...

Unknown Speaker (01:38:56.819)

Sir, didn't they start in 1995?

Unknown Speaker (01:38:59.539)

What the... me on... yeah, I wasn't even back on the air back then.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:04.579)

Oh yeah, you were.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:05.579)

American Freedom, Mr. Hager.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:06.579)

Well, sir, I believe that organization started in 95.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:09.140)

I'm not saying you're...

Unknown Speaker (01:39:10.140)

Well, they changed their name in 95.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:11.619)

They used to be something else.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:13.020)

I forget what it was, though.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:14.020)

Okay, well let me just tell you something.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:17.739)

The Davos, Switzerland people said they were going to plunge the dollar almost 4 years

Unknown Speaker (01:39:21.100)

ago.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:22.100)

That's a good talking point.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:23.100)

Yup.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:24.100)

Yeah, so this caller is not happy with Michael Hager.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:27.180)

I like it.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:28.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:29.180)

I like it.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:30.180)

I'm in.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:31.180)

And he is unflappable.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:32.180)

No, he does not seem to give a shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:34.539)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:35.539)

I listened to your show.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:36.539)

I know the things that you said.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:38.539)

Hey, buddy.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:39.539)

Hey.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:40.539)

Come on now.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:41.539)

Nice try.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:42.539)

You've been lying to me for 9 years.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:43.539)

I have several dollars worth of gold to prove it.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:46.619)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:47.899)

So they don't let him talk too much more and just sort of bicker about gold a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:53.340)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:54.800)

And then they address the question more like once he's gone.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:57.739)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:58.739)

Do a little bit of like, yeah, perhaps maybe I was a little bit early on things, but I

Unknown Speaker (01:40:04.319)

think as a whole if you look at the total thing, you know, whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:08.060)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:09.060)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:10.060)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:11.060)

I was like, okay, that's fun.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:12.060)

I like that.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:13.060)

I want the salty guy to stick around if you're going to have a little conversation.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:15.500)

Well, they unfortunately take another call.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:17.859)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:19.340)

Let's take a call.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:20.340)

Let's talk to John in New York.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:21.699)

John, last caller for Michael Haga.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:23.300)

Go ahead, sir.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:24.300)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:25.300)

Mr. Jones, protecting Mr. Haga as you did from the last caller was noble of you, but

Unknown Speaker (01:40:32.899)

we read his book.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:33.899)

I'm calling you from the economics department at Syracuse University up here in Syracuse,

Unknown Speaker (01:40:38.020)

New York.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:39.020)

Some of my students have read Mr. Haga's book and used it as a reference.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:43.979)

Mr. Haga needs, Mr. Haga needs to go back to read his book, Mr. Jones.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:50.260)

Oh, now that's a one, two punch that they were not expecting.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:55.899)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:56.899)

That is so funny.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:57.899)

Another caller.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:58.899)

That is so funny.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:59.899)

Like, fuck you, Michael Haga.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:00.899)

One more caller.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:01.899)

Hey, we're going to go, last caller for Michael Haga.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:04.260)

Fuck you.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:05.260)

Ah, well, that's going to be it for Michael Haga.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:07.020)

I'm sorry.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:08.020)

Calling you from the economics department at Syracuse University and Michael Haga can

Unknown Speaker (01:41:10.939)

go fuck himself.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:13.899)

So I wanted to play more of this caller, but there isn't much of it because it's just,

Unknown Speaker (01:41:19.380)

it just deteriorates into yelling.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:22.020)

Yeah, of course it does.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:23.020)

Alex just yells over him and doesn't allow any points to be made, creates a false version

Unknown Speaker (01:41:28.380)

of the things that he's saying in order to be like, I don't even know what that guy was

Unknown Speaker (01:41:31.619)

saying.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:32.619)

He's nuts.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:33.619)

That guy was nuts.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:34.619)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:35.619)

And maybe, just maybe, Alex is still being very nice to Michael Haga in this interview.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:43.539)

And everything.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:44.619)

But maybe some of that negative response has something to do with why we don't know who

Unknown Speaker (01:41:49.500)

he is.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:50.500)

That could have something to do with it.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:52.420)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:53.420)

Maybe the audience, not thrilled with the idea of this guy being on and Alex will take

Unknown Speaker (01:41:57.859)

note of that and not have him back on as much in the future.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:02.819)

Because I also, honestly, if I were Alex, I wouldn't have him on.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:06.100)

And not because, just strictly from the negative reaction, but like, he isn't bringing much

Unknown Speaker (01:42:12.560)

else to the table, you don't get from what Alex is saying, or anybody else he could have

Unknown Speaker (01:42:19.140)

on.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:20.140)

He's like, oh, the Federal Reserve is bad, oh my god, I can't get a hundred other people

Unknown Speaker (01:42:24.100)

to say that.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:25.100)

Totally, totally.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:26.100)

So the benefit of having him on is kind of dwarfed by clearly the negative phone calls.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:32.699)

And I thought that was pretty fun.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:34.060)

That's so fun.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:35.060)

The end of this episode, the 29th, just being this pile on Michael Haga and a caller who

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had his fucking tiger taken away.

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So good.

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What fun.

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What a good day.

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Yeah.

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What a good day.

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And he doesn't think it is!

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But it's a great day!

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You can't, like, you can't prepare for what you're gonna get.

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Alex Jones in 2003 is like a box of chocolates.

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That is so, I would almost imagine, like, if I was planning a show where I knew Alex

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was gonna have a gold guy on, I would have a giant button with an X on it for if an econ

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professor called.

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Just like a button I could run to, press, technical difficulties, just a thin line,

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just eeeeee!

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I agree with you, but from Michael Haga's presentation of himself, he's not like a super

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gold guy.

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He's not one of those guys who's like a lot of Alex's other, like people who are strictly

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gold people.

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He's not a Chapman.

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No.

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Yeah.

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He's certainly had some opinions about gold over the years.

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It's unclear.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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They didn't let that one caller speak as peacefully, and I think if they had I'd have a better sense.

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Or if this guy was Google-able at all.

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Right, right.

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Well, I imagine from what that guy said is he was invested in the Dow when it was up

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high and the guy was like, it's gonna collapse, you should put it all into gold, gold's going

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to skyrocket up to $3,000 an ounce or whatever it is.

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And then you'll be a billionaire.

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And the guy was like, the Dow is at 11,000 dick hole.

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Yeah.

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And gold is at fucking nothing!

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Yeah.

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Or it's up a little bit, but it didn't move nearly as much as, yeah, that's the sense

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that I got for sure.

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And that does seem like the kind of thing that people in the right wing space, especially.

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It happens to them a lot.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like Alex and Nigerian princes, right wingers and gold scams are always together.

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Yep.

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They walk hand in hand.

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Oh yeah.

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And we've come to the end of this adventure in 2003 and some of that stuff was fun.

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But I also think it's very valuable to recognize these little glimpses where Alex speaks a

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little bit more about his positions that we kind of got the sense were admirable, like

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his opposition to the death penalty or a preference for drug legalization.

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These things are things that you can agree with, I guess, in terms of like the end result

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of them.

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Sure.

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But you can't agree with how you get there.

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Yeah.

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And because you can't agree with how you get there, you actually can't agree on the end

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result.

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Because for me, I think the end result of opposition to death penalty execution is opposition

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to it, full stop.

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Right.

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For Alex, clearly that is not the case.

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Right.

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Because we can see that his opposition is based in a distrust of some people who are

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running the federal government.

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Yeah.

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And if those circumstances change, then he is now totally fine with executions and he's

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fine with executions on state level.

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So like there isn't actually agreement.

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He is for all intents and purposes, a pro death penalty person.

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Yeah.

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Just he has some, doesn't like Bush or Clinton.

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Yeah.

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I mean the thing that gets me about that though is that it's like because he's so malicious

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and so I suppose fungible in on, on just about anything like no matter what it is you agree

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with him on, he doesn't care about anything other than finding a way to give himself and

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white men more power.

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So even if you, you can't like agree with him on an issue and then come together or

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even work together or, or anything towards that, because if he's given any access, he's

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going to take whatever access he's given and funnel it towards the point of white male

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dominance.

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So even if, you know, it's like, there's not even an issue that you can talk to him about

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because his only issue beyond all the takes on, on the news of the day is like the end

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result of all of this should be white men running everything.

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Me specifically.

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Yeah.

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Like you even get that like from other other issues that he ends up covering during this

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time.

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He's complaining about these click it or ticket things and it's like, wow, they have these

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stops and they only, they only stop white people.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Why that's your, that's your concern.

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Yep.

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Sure.

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All right.

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Great.

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He was talking about immigration a little bit and like it is concerned about immigration

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rules.

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Like they're gonna, you know, it's like all of your jobs are going to be, you're going

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to make less.

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There's all of it does.

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There's ghost towns in Germany that they're bringing immigrants into to run.

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Like they're, he even said they're replacing, you know, it's like, Jesus Christ.

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Yeah.

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We get it.

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You're a white nationalist.

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All, all bottlenecks of his ideology go there or bottlenecks there and everything about

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action and specific things that can stop any of this is promote my shit.

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Yep.

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And then eventually of course, once he starts selling pills, there we go.

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Cash.

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Cash.

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Cash.

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Cash.

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The only solution to globalism is supplements.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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And bad documentaries.

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Anyway, Jordan, we'll be back, but until then we have a website.

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We do have a website.

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It's knowledgefight.com.

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Yep.

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We're also on Twitter.

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We are on Twitter.

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It's at knowledgefight.net.

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Go to bed Jordan.

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Yep.

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We're also on Facebook.

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We are on Facebook.

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If you download the site, you could please find a local charity or bail fund in your

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area to help out people doing God's work right now.

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We'll be back.

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But until then, I'm Neo.

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I'm Leo.

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I'm DZX Clark.

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I'm Daryl Rundis.

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No grandchildren for you.

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Andy in Kansas.

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You're on the air.

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Thanks for holding.

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Hello, Alex.

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I'm a first time caller.

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I'm a huge fan.

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I love your work.