View source for Transcript/865: Chatting with Anna Merlan

{{DEFAULTSORT:
    #_TRANSCRIPT_0865:Chatting with Anna Merlan
}}{{Transcript
    | title         = [[865: Chatting with Anna Merlan]]
    | caption       = [https://knowledgefight.libsyn.com/865-chatting-with-anna-merlan Listen to this episode on Libsyn]
    | episodeNumber = [[865: Chatting with Anna Merlan|865]]
    | length        = 01:10:16
}}

{{MessageBox
    | header     = Warning: Bot Generated Content
    | text       = This transcript was automatically generated by transcription software and likely contains many mistakes and misattributions. Please check the audio for definitive quotes, attribution, and context.
    | image      = rainbowbatch_avatar.png
    | imagewidth = 50px
    | id         = warning
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:00.000
    | text      = N-N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:12.960
    | text      = Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:19.600
    | text      = Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:21.399
    | text      = I have great respect for Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:23.920
    | text      = Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:24.920
    | text      = I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:29.359
    | text      = Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:30.359
    | text      = Dan and Jordan, Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:31.359
    | text      = Riddle her, riddle her, riddle her.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:32.359
    | text      = Need, need money.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:33.359
    | text      = Riddle her, riddle her, riddle her.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:34.359
    | text      = Andy in Kansas.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:35.359
    | text      = Andy in, Andy in.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:36.359
    | text      = Stop it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:37.359
    | text      = Andy in, Andy in Kansas.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:38.359
    | text      = Andy in, Andy in.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:39.359
    | text      = It's time to pray.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:40.359
    | text      = Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:41.359
    | text      = Thanks for holding.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:42.359
    | text      = Hello Alex, I'm a first time caller.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:43.359
    | text      = I'm a huge fan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:44.359
    | text      = I love your work.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:45.359
    | text      = Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:46.359
    | text      = N-N-N-N-N-Knowledgefight.com.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:47.359
    | text      = I love you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:59.799
    | text      = Hello everyone and welcome back to Knowledgefight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:02.119
    | text      = I am once again alone without my co-host Dan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:05.040
    | text      = Today, however, I am joined by renowned journalist Anna Merlin.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:10.439
    | text      = Thank you so much for your coming onto the show.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:12.480
    | text      = Thank you for having me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:13.480
    | text      = Did you kill Dan?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:15.040
    | text      = I, I did not kill Dan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:17.879
    | text      = Sometimes we've, we've decided that doing interviews separate allows us to actually
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:23.620
    | text      = listen to people as opposed to the two of us just talking to each other the whole time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:27.120
    | text      = It sounds like you killed Dan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:28.120
    | text      = It's okay though.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:29.120
    | text      = I'll, I can ask you about it later.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:30.719
    | text      = Maybe next time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:31.719
    | text      = Uh huh.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:32.719
    | text      = I can't.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:33.719
    | text      = You see, he's, he's the, I've, my, let me, let me put it this way, I've hitched my wagon
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:38.719
    | text      = to him.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:39.719
    | text      = I can't kill him.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:40.719
    | text      = True.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:41.719
    | text      = He can kill me at any time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:42.719
    | text      = Definitely.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:43.719
    | text      = That's true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:44.719
    | text      = I don't know about that, but I mean he could, well, you know, whatever.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:48.120
    | text      = Anyway, I'm just saying I'm rooting for you guys to fight to the death.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:52.959
    | text      = I think so long as we avoid volcanoes and the tops of which we should be good on that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:58.959
    | text      = front.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:59.959
    | text      = Famous last words.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:00.959
    | text      = Uh, yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:01.959
    | text      = So, uh, Anna, I, I mean, first off, you're currently a vice journalist.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:08.719
    | text      = Uh, you formerly worked for Jezebel.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:11.960
    | text      = You've, uh, I, I specifically reached out to talk about your book, uh, Republic of Lies,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:17.400
    | text      = which, uh, came out in about 2019.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:19.719
    | text      = 2019.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:20.719
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:21.719
    | text      = Like, um, April, I believe 2019.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:23.879
    | text      = So, you know, it became almost immediately irrelevant and then it became really irrelevant.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:30.719
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:31.719
    | text      = That's, I think that's one of the things that I found so interesting, uh, going back over
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:38.560
    | text      = is just, uh, well, I mean, I suppose the best place to start there is with the very opening.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:46.560
    | text      = You went on the conspiracy groups.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:48.599
    | text      = I did.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:49.599
    | text      = I did.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:50.599
    | text      = I was one of several journalists actually went on that cruise.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:53.120
    | text      = Um, the presence of journalists on that cruise went so poorly that they did not have another
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:58.639
    | text      = cruise for years and I heard that the next one, there was maybe going to be some kind
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:02.939
    | text      = of rule about not having journalists.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:04.460
    | text      = So we were very disruptive in a way that we did not intend to be.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:08.439
    | text      = Like really tried not to be, I want to stress that we really tried not to be, but, um, specifically
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:13.800
    | text      = my now friend Bronwyn Dickey, um, was there from Popular Mechanics.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:18.800
    | text      = A bunch of people on the cruise were very upset about the idea of Popular Mechanics
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:22.080
    | text      = being there because Popular Mechanics had written like a full book debunking 9-11 conspiracy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:27.439
    | text      = theories.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:28.439
    | text      = Um, and so, oh yeah, that seems silly, but now that I think about it, yeah, that makes
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:33.960
    | text      = perfect sense.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:34.960
    | text      = So they were, they were very concerned about Bronwyn being there.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:38.199
    | text      = That's concerned about me really, um, which was fine, but so it ended with, um, all of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:44.800
    | text      = the journalists.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:45.800
    | text      = It was me, Bronwyn, a photographer named Dina Latovski, who is also a good friend of it,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:50.039
    | text      = friend now and our friend Colin who was there, uh, blogging for his wife's blog.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:55.120
    | text      = Anyway, we all ended up getting kind of followed around the boat at various times by people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:00.719
    | text      = on the cruise, um, who were intent on proving various things about us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:05.080
    | text      = I still have like video and audio footage of this husband-wife team cornering me in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:11.599
    | text      = the boat computer lab and accusing me of being in the CIA, uh, and then telling me I wouldn't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:17.680
    | text      = necessarily know if I was in the CIA.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:19.639
    | text      = It was, it was a really, really long week.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:24.519
    | text      = I like that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:25.519
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:26.519
    | text      = I like that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:27.519
    | text      = I see the thing about it that I don't understand is, well, first off, I don't understand cruises
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:33.759
    | text      = at all, I can't, I don't understand the idea of not having an escape.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:37.639
    | text      = I can't recommend it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:38.920
    | text      = That boggles my mind.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:39.920
    | text      = It was, it was not good.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:43.720
    | text      = Then for them to go seems mad because they're conspiracy theorists are all climbing together
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:51.139
    | text      = on a boat at an easily, uh, isolatable circumstance.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:54.959
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:55.959
    | text      = I was surprised.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:56.959
    | text      = They can all be found.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:58.199
    | text      = I was really surprised.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:59.199
    | text      = Um, also two of them, a husband and husband and wife pair named Sean David Morton and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:04.399
    | text      = Melissa Morton were actually arrested coming off the boat, um, you know, for, um, financial
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:11.519
    | text      = fraud that they both eventually went to prison for.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:14.360
    | text      = So like on a number of levels, it just, it didn't seem like the best idea.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:19.720
    | text      = It was also very expensive and a lot of the both presenters and guests on the cruise were
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:25.120
    | text      = not in like great financial conditions.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:29.040
    | text      = So I don't know that it was really a good plan for any of them, but they seem to have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:32.800
    | text      = a nice time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:34.800
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:35.800
    | text      = Well, I mean, I think what I find fascinating about it is that it speaks to the level of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:41.519
    | text      = loneliness in the community for stuff.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:45.000
    | text      = I mean, if you're willing to go on a cruise, just that's, that's lonely.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:50.920
    | text      = I mean, a lot of the guests were actually there because they specifically wanted to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:55.120
    | text      = hear either from Andrew Wakefield, who's sort of the father of modern vaccine conspiracy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:59.199
    | text      = theories, or because they wanted to get an audience with Sean David Morton or, um, Winston
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:05.680
    | text      = shroud, who is another like self-styled financial expert.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:08.399
    | text      = Um, you know, both of these people were practicing what I would argue was redemption theory,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:14.240
    | text      = which is sort of a branch of like sovereign citizen financial, um, conspiracy theory stuff.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:18.879
    | text      = But a lot of folks on the boat were specifically wanting to be in their seminars, wanting to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:22.879
    | text      = take notes, wanting to like figure out how to get out of what, whatever financial situation
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:28.240
    | text      = they thought they were in or were undoubtedly in.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:31.399
    | text      = And so for a lot of people, I guess, spending like $2,000 to go on this cruise and hear
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:35.439
    | text      = from these people seemed like a wise financial choice.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:37.759
    | text      = And arguably, of course it was not.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:40.199
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:41.199
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:42.199
    | text      = Well, that's an interesting, that's an interesting different angle on it because that turns
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:45.920
    | text      = it from a, a like grouping of people who believe in conspiracies trying to connect with each
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:53.220
    | text      = other into more of a, like a self-help guru bilking people out of, out of money in the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:59.040
    | text      = same way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:00.040
    | text      = Yeah, it definitely felt, you know, like the rich dad, poor dad guy could be Sean dad Morton
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:06.560
    | text      = or Sean dad Morton.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:08.439
    | text      = There we go.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:09.439
    | text      = I've figured it out.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:10.439
    | text      = Well, I had never, I have never read rich dad, poor dad, despite my partner's relative
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:17.480
    | text      = has given him like five copies of the book.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:19.399
    | text      = And so we have had many copies of this book in our house that we immediately put somewhere
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:23.920
    | text      = else.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:24.920
    | text      = So I had not read it and I did not know what it was about until I listened to an episode
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:29.160
    | text      = of books could kill it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:30.639
    | text      = It sounds like the, the, the entire narrative, like the, the rich dad was not actually really
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:35.800
    | text      = closely involved with the author's life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:37.600
    | text      = Also, the author did file for bankruptcy at one point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:40.439
    | text      = I think like it's really, it's an incredible text.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:42.759
    | text      = Anyway, nothing to do with what we're doing here, but yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:45.720
    | text      = Well, I mean, arguably it's, it is, it's adjacent.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:50.399
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:51.399
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:52.399
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:53.399
    | text      = That's the, that's the interesting thing that I'm, I'm connecting with all of this you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:59.240
    | text      = the way that the, the cruise itself in 2015, 2016, but yeah, there's a typo in the book.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:07.560
    | text      = I tried to have fixed in the paperback version and it did not get fixed, but it was 2016.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:14.879
    | text      = That's the version.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:15.879
    | text      = I know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:16.879
    | text      = I'm sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:17.879
    | text      = So so yeah, but in, in this way I see the people on this boat, on this cruise with you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:26.319
    | text      = and they're there for this social gathering slash self-help financial guru.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:34.120
    | text      = And I have to think that there is one or two of those people who wound up at the Capitol
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:39.759
    | text      = on January 6th.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:40.759
    | text      = I have no idea.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:41.759
    | text      = There's this winding road.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:43.440
    | text      = I actually don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:45.440
    | text      = It's entirely possible.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:47.360
    | text      = Not to my knowledge.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:48.360
    | text      = Most of the folks on the boat at that time were not particularly political at the same
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:52.360
    | text      = time as I wrote.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:53.360
    | text      = Several of them were really excited about Donald Trump, so I don't know what ended up
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:57.240
    | text      = happening.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:58.240
    | text      = I haven't kept in touch with any of the attendees.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:01.279
    | text      = I have continued to follow obviously a number of the presenters and have had run ins with
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:08.799
    | text      = them at various times over the years.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:10.720
    | text      = Yeah, it's a really good question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:13.120
    | text      = I didn't think of that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:14.120
    | text      = I'm curious if any of them ended up going.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:15.639
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:16.639
    | text      = I have no idea.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:17.639
    | text      = On the one hand, maybe on the other hand, a lot of those folks were pretty much convinced
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:22.879
    | text      = that politics were sort of like a, you know, a ruse, an illusion, a veil through which
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:27.039
    | text      = we have to pierce to see the true workings of things.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:30.360
    | text      = So it's entirely possible that they just...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:33.240
    | text      = Tell me when they start sounding crazy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:34.639
    | text      = Yeah, I mean, honestly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:35.639
    | text      = So, you know, I mean, I see them, I see these folks periodically when I go to Conscious
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:40.480
    | text      = Life, which is a big new age festival in LA, it's an expo, and I usually go every couple
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:47.080
    | text      = of years to kind of like see what's up and, you know, see what the latest trends are.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:51.840
    | text      = See what's up.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:52.840
    | text      = Just see what's up.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:53.840
    | text      = See what the trends are.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:54.840
    | text      = You know, like one thing that I do a lot of actually is I will go to conferences or listen
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:02.080
    | text      = in on them online and stuff that like I often don't even end up writing about just to like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:05.879
    | text      = see what the haps are.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:09.120
    | text      = And so I do occasionally see some of the conspiracy attendees at Conscious Life, they do not remember
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:14.679
    | text      = me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:15.679
    | text      = I have not played as large a role in their lives as they have in mine.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:19.200
    | text      = Interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:20.200
    | text      = Yeah, no.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:21.200
    | text      = Okay.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:22.200
    | text      = So you're more of just like an amateur lurker at the, fascinating.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:27.879
    | text      = Totally.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:28.879
    | text      = I mean, I also think.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:30.879
    | text      = What do you take from it?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:32.879
    | text      = From the fact that they don't remember me?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:34.720
    | text      = Not just like the trends, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:37.279
    | text      = Not just the trends and the like.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:39.399
    | text      = Like there's, what do you take from being in that environment?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:43.000
    | text      = Like there's no sort of tactile, emotional feel you have when you're walking through
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:47.720
    | text      = these booths of lunatics.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:49.919
    | text      = Well, so unfortunately I really enjoy being there.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:53.000
    | text      = I actually have like a pretty good rapport with the guy who owns and runs Conscious Life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:58.519
    | text      = His name is Robert Quicksilver.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:59.840
    | text      = And for whatever reason, he seems to like me despite, yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:05.879
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:06.879
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:07.879
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:08.879
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:09.879
    | text      = And I like him.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:10.879
    | text      = I quite like talking to all of these folks, you know, despite the fact that I'm not here
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:19.679
    | text      = to sort of report in a way that they would enjoy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:23.240
    | text      = And I also don't know that they like me a lot personally.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:25.440
    | text      = Like I ran into some sort of QAnon characters the last time I was, or the time before last
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:31.600
    | text      = that I was at Conscious Life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:32.600
    | text      = And later they were talking about me on like a podcast and agreeing that I had a very dark
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:37.840
    | text      = energy and they didn't understand what my deal was.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:40.000
    | text      = And I was like, yeah, okay, fair.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:41.960
    | text      = Anyway, sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:42.960
    | text      = What do I take from being there?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:45.519
    | text      = So this last time, the last time I went was in February of this year, and I was really
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:49.799
    | text      = curious to see what effect COVID had had on the sort of broader new age and conspiracy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:58.080
    | text      = communities who all tend to come together at Conscious Life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:02.159
    | text      = And ultimately it has not had much effect in the same way that the broader world has
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:07.440
    | text      = kind of elected to forget the pandemic and move on as quickly as they can.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:12.600
    | text      = There's also not a lot of discussion about it at Conscious Life, except for Del Bigtree,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:17.080
    | text      = who's a big anti-vaccine figure who did like a keynote while I was there, who talked obviously
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:22.279
    | text      = a lot about vaccine mandates and lockdowns and the sort of need for political and legal
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:28.519
    | text      = revenge on the people who he believes inflicted the pandemic on us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:34.320
    | text      = Yeah, no, it was interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:36.320
    | text      = Also, you know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:37.320
    | text      = Playing the hits.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:38.320
    | text      = Sure, sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:39.320
    | text      = Playing the hits, playing the hits.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:40.320
    | text      = He's very popular.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:41.320
    | text      = I can totally see him running for office someday.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:45.440
    | text      = You know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:46.440
    | text      = So, yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:47.440
    | text      = But I mean, again, it's super interesting because I'm in that lecture.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:50.039
    | text      = There's several hundred people in the room.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:51.360
    | text      = I'm obviously like the only person wearing a mask, of course, as you might imagine.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:59.759
    | text      = And no, it's like nobody is...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:02.600
    | text      = Ironically revealing yourself by wearing a mask.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:05.679
    | text      = It's true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:06.679
    | text      = And ironically, like nobody had anything to say to me about it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:10.259
    | text      = You know, like there have been times past where I have covered whatever conspiracy events
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:14.679
    | text      = while wearing a mask and have gotten super duper harassed.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:17.080
    | text      = And so have my colleagues.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:18.080
    | text      = But in this particular space, it was just like, I don't know, they just weren't there
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:22.440
    | text      = to fuck with me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:23.440
    | text      = They were there to hear from Del Bictory.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:24.600
    | text      = So like...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:25.600
    | text      = Everyone's just fucking tired, man.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:28.299
    | text      = We're just fucking tired of COVID.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:30.080
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:31.080
    | text      = Whatever.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:32.080
    | text      = Wear your goddamn mask.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:33.080
    | text      = I don't care.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:34.080
    | text      = Yeah, it was great.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:35.080
    | text      = It's really nice.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:36.080
    | text      = I definitely prefer, you know, being able to do my job without getting harassed.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:41.960
    | text      = So no, it was great though.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:42.960
    | text      = I really appreciated everybody's willingness to, you know, not inflict their choices on
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:47.639
    | text      = me or vice versa.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:48.639
    | text      = You know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:49.639
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:50.639
    | text      = All right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:51.639
    | text      = Now I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of walking around this post-COVID world and how
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:02.799
    | text      = everybody, I mean, what you're describing I find interesting is that everybody's collective
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:09.919
    | text      = fictions are all kind of agreeing on, let's just put COVID behind us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:14.519
    | text      = Everybody's collective fictions are intact and have been reinforced in whatever way was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:19.639
    | text      = sort of politically and socially and financially useful by the pandemic.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:24.759
    | text      = So people who were there to peddle this idea of sort of perpetual sickness and promise,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:31.039
    | text      = you know, miraculous health cures were able to draw that from COVID.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:35.799
    | text      = People whose ideas about, you know, lockdowns and government overreach, you know, people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:40.840
    | text      = who just wanted to ignore the whole thing, whatever, whatever they needed to take from
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:44.840
    | text      = it, they did.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:45.840
    | text      = So that, yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:46.840
    | text      = It was interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:47.840
    | text      = It's always interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:48.840
    | text      = It's always interesting to see what people are talking about, what people are selling.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:51.000
    | text      = There's always a lot of products to protect you from EMF frequencies and stuff like that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:58.000
    | text      = So I was looking at that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:59.000
    | text      = You know, it's just, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:00.000
    | text      = It's just a good time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:01.639
    | text      = There's very good samosas.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:02.799
    | text      = There's an Indian like a restaurant that does catering every year and the samosas are incredible.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:09.799
    | text      = I brought my partner this year.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:11.080
    | text      = He actually ended up taking photos and publishing a photo essay on Vice because he was just
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:15.679
    | text      = wandering around the, he's a photographer and was just wandering around the exhibition
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:19.919
    | text      = hall and was like, holy shit, and ended up shooting like a really beautiful series of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:23.840
    | text      = photos.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:24.840
    | text      = So, you know, we all, it's a, it's a great time for the whole family.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:27.840
    | text      = But now, now I suppose then let's, let's bring it home.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:35.379
    | text      = What does conscious life do?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:37.080
    | text      = So arguably conscious life has always been a good way for certainly people like me to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:42.120
    | text      = take the temperature of what sort of quote unquote fringe things are entering the quote
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:48.559
    | text      = unquote mainstream.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:49.559
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:50.559
    | text      = And as you know, as well as anybody, like those terms don't mean anything anymore.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:55.240
    | text      = Post Trump, post pandemic, like there's all kinds of things that have contributed to sort
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:59.559
    | text      = of collapsing this idea of inside and outside fringe versus mainstream.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:05.399
    | text      = And you know, so going to events like conscious life always sort of helps me, helps remind
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:10.320
    | text      = me how little distinction those two things have, you know, where there will be relatively
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:15.799
    | text      = mainstream celebrities, celebrities at conscious life, and there'll be very fringe ideas and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:19.919
    | text      = they'll all be in the same room.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:21.360
    | text      = Like the last time I was there in 2020, Russell Brand was actually there because before he
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:28.080
    | text      = became a YouTube contrarian, so before he became a YouTube contrarian, he was interested
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:33.440
    | text      = in this idea of becoming maybe like a new age kind of motivational speaker.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:38.799
    | text      = And so he was kind of trying that out.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:40.360
    | text      = He was selling his workshop, I think costs like a hundred dollars to get into or something
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:46.240
    | text      = like extra over the ticket price.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:48.600
    | text      = So I went and sat in on that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:49.840
    | text      = That was super interesting to watch him trying to kind of like re, um, revamp his image,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:56.159
    | text      = you know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:57.159
    | text      = So it's also a good way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:58.159
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:59.159
    | text      = So you caught the proto Russell Brand, he was doing open mics before he started.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:03.879
    | text      = It was interesting too, because so Russell Brand has written a book about sobriety, like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:10.160
    | text      = talked about getting sober from his various addictions and sort of entering a more spiritually
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:14.960
    | text      = evolved place in his life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:18.920
    | text      = And then he became kind of a YouTube shouter, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:22.319
    | text      = And in between he was trying this other thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:25.680
    | text      = And then of course now he has been accused of this incredibly horrible series of sexual
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:30.799
    | text      = abuse allegations from, you know, kind of the height of his fame a few years ago, which
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:35.960
    | text      = has been super interesting to watch how he handles that on YouTube.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:39.759
    | text      = So yeah, I really, you know, I wish I could have seen into the future, uh, yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:44.759
    | text      = I mean, that is, that is one of the things that, uh, we've unfortunately run against
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:50.039
    | text      = is like, um, you know, we've gone back into the past with Alex.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:54.799
    | text      = We've seen Russell Brand come up and there's so many times now where you see figures from
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:59.680
    | text      = the present and you kind of, uh, you know, it's almost an inverse truism that Alex was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:06.079
    | text      = right thing is like, if it was on Alex's show, we should have fucking done something about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:11.000
    | text      = it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:12.000
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:13.000
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:14.000
    | text      = Like Alex is so wrong that he's created a flex point in the timeline where if we just
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:20.240
    | text      = did the opposite of everything he says, we'd be great.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:22.920
    | text      = There's a lot of foreshadowing, certainly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:24.839
    | text      = There's a lot of stuff where you're like, wow, but also, so I don't know how you feel
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:29.559
    | text      = about this, but I would sort of say that generally I feel like he really has lost his market
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:34.279
    | text      = share.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:35.279
    | text      = There are so many would be proto Alex Jones is out there competing for his space.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:39.880
    | text      = Um, a lot of them are willing to, for instance, like say more extreme things about, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:47.720
    | text      = the Jews or white nationalism or whatever, then he is willing to do or are smarter or
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:53.440
    | text      = are, you know, not banned from every social media platform.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:57.559
    | text      = So it's interesting to watch him sort of struggle to kind of regain his footing and then these
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:02.720
    | text      = new people who are essentially trying to do, you know, exactly what he's done and build
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:06.460
    | text      = the financial success that he's built because everything else aside, God, he's so rich.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:10.799
    | text      = He's so, so, so, so, so wealthy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:13.319
    | text      = Um, yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:15.759
    | text      = I don't know what I'm trying to say there, but it's always just interesting to think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:19.119
    | text      = about the ways that he both created this incredibly, uh, effective business model that everyone
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:25.740
    | text      = else is always trying to emulate and also sowed the seeds of his own destruction.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:33.160
    | text      = Well I don't know about his destruction.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:34.160
    | text      = That might be exaggerated.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:36.680
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:37.680
    | text      = I mean there's a, there's a bit of, there's a bit of, to, to in my mind a bit of, you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:42.960
    | text      = know, he took a job opportunity just as much as he created an industry there.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:48.759
    | text      = He's a, he's a bullshit launder, you know, like he's, and he's a racism launderer and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:54.079
    | text      = he's, he's a kind of way for people to get from Fox News says Texas should be a little
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:01.140
    | text      = bit lower to like white people should be allowed to run everything for like he's, he's the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:07.160
    | text      = pipe.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:08.160
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:09.160
    | text      = And I think we watch now is that, you know, there's not as much distance you have to go
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:15.680
    | text      = between regular to white people should run.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:18.920
    | text      = There's not Alex's market shares, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:21.599
    | text      = There's not as much need for the pipeline.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:24.000
    | text      = There's not as much need for the pipeline.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:25.640
    | text      = Um, increasingly mainstream figures are much more willing to say things that would have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:29.400
    | text      = previously needed to be laundered through a series of waypoints and middlemen like Alex
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:33.799
    | text      = Jones.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:34.799
    | text      = And so now you can just have, you know, the politicians doing the racist dog whistles
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:39.519
    | text      = themselves or the antisemitic dog whistles or what have you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:43.000
    | text      = Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:45.519
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:46.519
    | text      = That is what happened.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:49.240
    | text      = That sucks.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:50.240
    | text      = It's not great.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:51.240
    | text      = It's not great.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:52.240
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:53.240
    | text      = I'm interested then.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:54.799
    | text      = See that's, that's kind of the thing now where I ask myself, what does it take for us to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:00.920
    | text      = go from like, uh, we all agree you can't say the N word and we know if you say the N word,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:08.880
    | text      = what to do.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:09.880
    | text      = We've got it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:10.880
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:11.880
    | text      = What is it going to take for just racist regular old dog whistles that mean the same thing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:17.839
    | text      = to the people saying them?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:19.359
    | text      = What is it going to take for those to have the same weight or is it just going to be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:24.319
    | text      = a, we're always allowed to say like a diet version of whatever slur we want and society
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:29.480
    | text      = will be like, ah, he's probably funny.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:30.799
    | text      = I mean, it's gotten a lot easier arguably to do that stuff in recent years too.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:35.480
    | text      = You know, as, as has been discussed ad nauseam, like there has been a return of a radically
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:42.039
    | text      = regressive viewpoint around things like gender, race, sexuality, uh, that is not just happening
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:50.359
    | text      = in the U S it's happening across the world.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:52.240
    | text      = This sort of return of far right populous leaders who are willing to, uh, pander to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:57.160
    | text      = that base and say those things much more openly and overtly is coming back.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:02.559
    | text      = Uh, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:03.559
    | text      = There's, there's just sort of no doubt that the rhetoric that is acceptable in sort of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:09.440
    | text      = quote unquote mainstream politics is getting more extreme, uh, all over the world.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:14.799
    | text      = And so this is the point where people don't like having me on panels because I always
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:21.000
    | text      = say that I'm not actually very optimistic about any of this.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:24.119
    | text      = Like I do think that we are just getting more politically extreme in the world.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:27.680
    | text      = Like we are just getting more polarized things seem to be getting worse.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:31.440
    | text      = Um, things that I thought were sort of settled in the U S like the rights of gay people,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:37.640
    | text      = for instance, like the idea that LGBT Americans are just generally deserve to be left the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:42.440
    | text      = fuck alone.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:43.440
    | text      = Even the idea of something as simple as same sex marriage being legal, you know, I am seeing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:47.960
    | text      = all of this stuff starting to come up for discussion again.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:51.160
    | text      = You know, as you are well aware, people like Alex Jones and others are laundering all of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:56.440
    | text      = this really, really intense concentrated panic around trans people specifically.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:01.200
    | text      = Um, these are all things that would have been relatively unusual even a few years ago and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:06.240
    | text      = they're coming back.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:07.240
    | text      = So this idea that we, that we always move in a direction towards sort of progress is,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:12.960
    | text      = is just sort of not true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:14.960
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:15.960
    | text      = I, I'm not super optimistic about it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:17.559
    | text      = I don't, I don't have any like solutions.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:19.799
    | text      = I have sort of things we can do on an individual level, but I never end up, um, feeling very
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:24.440
    | text      = optimistic about any of this.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:26.319
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:27.319
    | text      = I mean, there's nothing much to feel optimistic about, but that's fine.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:32.039
    | text      = I mean, I wonder about that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:34.599
    | text      = I wonder about our, our engagement with that, like the language is getting more extreme
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:41.000
    | text      = or the like when it speaks to my previous point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:46.160
    | text      = I don't think it's more extreme so much as it's more, you know, like people who, people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:54.079
    | text      = have been saying the exact same things about the Jews, uh, in mainstream society for my
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:00.839
    | text      = entire life.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:02.039
    | text      = Just using varying degrees of, that is true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:05.059
    | text      = Is that, would you disagree with that?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:06.480
    | text      = I don't disagree.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:07.480
    | text      = Have you read Mike Rothschild's new book called Jewish space losers?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:11.480
    | text      = Yeah, it was very good.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:13.880
    | text      = And again, I thought it was really effective as a way of talking about, you know, yeah,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:17.720
    | text      = how those dog whistles kind of wax and wane and how at times there are more overt ways
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:22.880
    | text      = of talking about this stuff.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:23.880
    | text      = And at times, um, it becomes more veiled, but it's sort of, it's sort of always there.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:28.599
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:29.599
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:30.599
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:31.599
    | text      = That's true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:32.599
    | text      = I mean, yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:33.599
    | text      = I'm thinking about this like as a, as a Jewish person who works in media, like when, when
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:40.940
    | text      = people are willing to say the sort of overt thing to me versus the sort of slightly more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:44.960
    | text      = veiled thing and yeah, it varies, but you know, there's, there's always been people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:49.920
    | text      = willing to say the overt version of the thing the entire time I've been working.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:54.160
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:55.160
    | text      = No, I mean, I find it fascinating because I've read, uh, I've read many books, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:00.039
    | text      = uh, Rothschild's book, uh, I've read, uh, Charlotte's book and, and these are people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:06.740
    | text      = who are entering spaces that are, are like almost two things.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:13.039
    | text      = They're curated forms of the racism for the performer, for the, for the audience, uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:20.720
    | text      = you the, the journalist and, and at the same time, like these, uh, I don't know what these
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:31.539
    | text      = fictions, um, that, that are meant to kind of, uh, at the same time that they're, I want
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:41.079
    | text      = to try and explain in a way that makes sense because this is a difficult concept, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:47.640
    | text      = So when someone like Jeff Charlotte, uh, goes into an openly Nazi anti-Semitic space, uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:55.119
    | text      = you know, or, or Mike Rothschild or, or, uh, goes into these spaces, these are spaces where
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:01.059
    | text      = people are allowing them.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:02.440
    | text      = So they're obviously going to be like, Hey, we're not actually like kill all the Jews.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:07.359
    | text      = Not, that's not us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:09.559
    | text      = We're going to, we're the kind that can talk to you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:12.380
    | text      = That kind of thing, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:15.039
    | text      = But when you're not there, the racism isn't the same.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:18.920
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:19.920
    | text      = I mean, I wrote about that in my book because I went to a gathering held by the traditionalist
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:24.640
    | text      = worker party and a number of other racist groups that were, you know, trying to have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:28.759
    | text      = this whatever, um, partnership, they were trying to form an Alliance and it didn't work
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:33.240
    | text      = out obviously.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:34.240
    | text      = Cause it never does.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:35.240
    | text      = These guys are incredibly, they're incapable of working together just as a species, this
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:40.759
    | text      = particular group of guy, this particular type of guy, they just, they can't do it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:44.480
    | text      = Um, but yeah, obviously, you know, when I was there or when journalists were there in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:49.200
    | text      = general, they present one version of themselves and then in another setting, they are sort
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:54.440
    | text      = of overtly antisemitic and they think we can't see them, but of course we can.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:59.440
    | text      = So some of it is being kind of aware of the ruse that they're trying to pull, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:06.680
    | text      = And incorporating that into your reporting and being like, yes, this is how they act
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:11.819
    | text      = in front of us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:12.819
    | text      = And this is how they act when they think we're not listening.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:15.160
    | text      = Um, you know, like it's, but again, like journalists do fall for this all the time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:20.400
    | text      = There's plenty of coverage of people like Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannopoulos that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:23.680
    | text      = was like, well, he's so polite, you know, he has a suit on, he brushed his hair and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:28.039
    | text      = it's like, yeah, that none of that suggests that their rhetoric is any less extreme.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:32.680
    | text      = But yeah, I mean, you know, they always, they always talk about it in much more overt terms
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:38.039
    | text      = than they think we can here.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:40.480
    | text      = Well, and I, I find that to go even further beyond that, you know, I've spoken to people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:45.559
    | text      = who've gone undercover in these, in these areas and there's a different version of racism
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:51.799
    | text      = for online dating websites that they present, you know, this kind of puffed up over hyper-masculine
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:58.859
    | text      = version of racism that they'll present.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:01.359
    | text      = And so all of these different things to me showcase not so much a, uh, you know, Oh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:09.799
    | text      = this rhetoric is more or less extreme than it ever has.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:13.359
    | text      = So much as just, this is what we're doing in this time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:17.079
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:18.079
    | text      = What is the flavor that they're marketing in different places?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:20.799
    | text      = Yeah, watching, watching racists try to date, like watching white nationalist men try to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:26.400
    | text      = figure out how to find a woman who will be all the things that they want a woman to be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:32.119
    | text      = is it's sure as challenging or watching again, like, you know, there have been so many white
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:38.319
    | text      = women who have tried to become sort of racist influencers.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:41.559
    | text      = You can talk about people like Warren Southern who just find ironically that the sexism in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:47.400
    | text      = these spaces is so overwhelming they don't get to do what they want to do.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:51.480
    | text      = You know, it's sort of funny.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:53.039
    | text      = Um, yeah, sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:54.880
    | text      = Not really relevant.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:55.880
    | text      = It's just sort of funny.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:57.880
    | text      = I mean, it speaks to the fact that if your fundamental position is I hate women, you're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:03.960
    | text      = probably not going to get along with any of them in whatever context.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:09.319
    | text      = Your entire concept is I hate them for being the thing they are, that I'm not even defining
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:15.200
    | text      = clearly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:16.200
    | text      = It's fascinating, again, this particular group of guys, they're so homophobic and they're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:21.559
    | text      = so sexist and I'm just like, God, how do you, how do you end up having any friends?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:27.039
    | text      = How do you end up having a family?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:28.519
    | text      = Like, you know, it seems tricky.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:32.599
    | text      = I mean, but that's, that's why it again gets back to how do you get on that fucking boat?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:37.799
    | text      = How do you get on that cruise if you're, you have to be so lonely in a certain way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:43.920
    | text      = It has to be, yeah, so well, my sort of observation generally is the people that were literally
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:51.599
    | text      = on the cruise and the people who are metaphorically on the cruise, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:54.440
    | text      = The people who are in the deep end of the pool, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:56.799
    | text      = All of them end up there because some system of power, some part of society they feel has
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:05.299
    | text      = failed them.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:06.299
    | text      = You know, like all the financial conspiracy theorists I talked to had tax issues or finance
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:11.599
    | text      = financial issues, all the health conspiracy theorists have an issue where they believe
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:14.680
    | text      = that they have been harmed by mainstream medicine or the mainstream medical establishment.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:18.960
    | text      = You know, this is just really common is that these people have an origin story of some
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:25.319
    | text      = kind.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:26.319
    | text      = You know, Alex Jones is a bit of a mystery even as much as we know about him and about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:32.000
    | text      = his sort of like in glorious high school years and all of that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:36.799
    | text      = But I mean, all of these folks have something that they feel, you know, push them into the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:45.480
    | text      = position or the space that they're in now and it's always a matter of just kind of figuring
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:48.880
    | text      = out what it is.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:49.880
    | text      = It's why I like asking people about like ask a lot of longitudinal questions of these folks
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:54.680
    | text      = like, okay, well, what were you doing 10 years ago?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:56.519
    | text      = Like how did you grow up?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:59.880
    | text      = And sometimes people don't have insights about themselves like that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:02.960
    | text      = They're like, you know, I grew up really normal and now I'm incredibly racist, but like that's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:06.660
    | text      = often not, it's often not true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:09.640
    | text      = Which is why you can also benefit a lot when you're writing profiles about people like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:12.960
    | text      = this from asking folks around them and people who knew them to kind of pinpoint what happened,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:17.559
    | text      = you know, rather than talking to them directly because they're often not very reliable or
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:22.799
    | text      = self-aware narrators.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:24.400
    | text      = Oh yeah, no, I, what was it?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:29.440
    | text      = The debutante.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:30.440
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:31.440
    | text      = John Ronson's thing about, what's her name?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:35.400
    | text      = I haven't really listened to it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:39.400
    | text      = The stories of the boyfriend or the like ex-husband when she was younger, he was just being like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:45.799
    | text      = you know, I don't remember her being that racist.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:48.920
    | text      = You know, I got these two fucking swastika tattoos covered up, but I don't remember her
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:54.920
    | text      = being racist for any reason.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:56.559
    | text      = And you're like, okay.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:57.559
    | text      = I got to listen to that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:58.559
    | text      = You're telling a very fun story.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:59.559
    | text      = God.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:00.559
    | text      = Talk about a guy who's had so much foreshadowing in his book.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:04.720
    | text      = When you read the version of Alex Jones that exists in John Ronson's book, Them, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:11.759
    | text      = back when he was still dating Kelly, back when he was first infiltrating Bohemian Grove,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:16.960
    | text      = God, it's so, so interesting to see sort of how he's depicted and who he appeared to be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:22.319
    | text      = at the time versus what he became.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:23.680
    | text      = And of course, Ronson has talked about this a lot, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:26.960
    | text      = You know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:27.960
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:28.960
    | text      = I think that's, again, one of the things that I'm struggling with and we're kind of struggling
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:35.079
    | text      = with is when we go back to those, even those early episodes, you know, when we go back
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:38.859
    | text      = to the Y2K episodes of Alex, where you think, oh, this is what he used to be and before
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:47.720
    | text      = he became what he become.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:51.400
    | text      = And the reality is he's really just as racist, just as full of shit.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:57.480
    | text      = It's just that the trappings around the conversation at the time were such that he could get away
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:03.160
    | text      = with people ignoring them.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:06.000
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:07.000
    | text      = He also seems a bit more, he's a bit more self-aware at that time in that he, so like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:13.200
    | text      = there's a thing I've written about in the past where he has like a Halloween episode
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:15.759
    | text      = from when he was still on public access TV, like way back in the day, where he is carving
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:19.559
    | text      = pumpkins and talking about black helicopters.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:22.279
    | text      = And it's funny.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:23.279
    | text      = It is legitimately very funny because it's so weird, it's so sort of incongruous that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:28.079
    | text      = he's doing this kind of wholesome activity while spouting this sort of insane rhetoric.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:31.680
    | text      = And it's tempting to be like, okay, he was aware of how he came across and he's playing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:36.599
    | text      = with this image, which is also how people treated his behavior for so long as like a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:42.559
    | text      = joke or a metaphor or like an act that he put on that he then shed behind the scenes.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:47.519
    | text      = But yeah, as you point out, as time goes on with the consistency of what he says and how
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:52.759
    | text      = he says it, you can be like, oh no, he really, he really does seem to mean it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:56.240
    | text      = He just had a slightly less genteel presentation as time went on or he didn't have a, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:03.240
    | text      = whatever mainstream platform or whatever.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:05.559
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:06.559
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:07.559
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:08.559
    | text      = I mean, we weren't, we all too often, we just weren't looking and with, you know, with Russell
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:13.239
    | text      = Brand, you know, there are so many things I've read recently where people just have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:18.739
    | text      = been like, well, you know what, in light of these recent allegations, I went back and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:22.079
    | text      = I watched Russell Brand specials and I think he admitted to all of these crimes.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:28.119
    | text      = But back then you could just do a special about it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:30.360
    | text      = You know, it's, it's.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:31.360
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:32.360
    | text      = Well, especially when it comes to sexual misconduct, there's so many things that in the early two
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:37.280
    | text      = thousands just kind of flew.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:40.599
    | text      = There were so many ways that you could talk about women or talk about your preferences
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:43.980
    | text      = for very young women, you know, and people, it did not seemingly raise the eyebrows that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:50.179
    | text      = it did now.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:51.179
    | text      = I mean, yeah, it's interesting to see what we are aware of that we didn't seemingly used
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:55.159
    | text      = to be as a society.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:57.559
    | text      = Oh, the, the shocking nature of like, I remember growing up and my parents being like uncomfortable
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:05.840
    | text      = with the Simpsons, you know, those first seasons where it was very, very good.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:10.719
    | text      = And, and then I go back and I'll watch like a movie from the night, like American pie
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:15.119
    | text      = or something.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:16.119
    | text      = It'll be like, are you shitting me?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:17.639
    | text      = This whole thing is sexual assault.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:19.280
    | text      = What is going on?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:20.280
    | text      = This is wild.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:21.280
    | text      = How is this allowed?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:22.280
    | text      = Also the very overt sort of homophobia and how often a joke about somebody being gay
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:26.679
    | text      = or being like effeminate is a major sort of plot point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:29.559
    | text      = Yeah, man, it is so interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:31.039
    | text      = Like the, how old are you?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:33.039
    | text      = I'm 37.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:34.039
    | text      = So yeah, the same period of time, the stuff that was sort of popular when we were in middle
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:39.079
    | text      = school and high school, it is incredible how poorly a lot of it has aged.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:45.239
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:46.239
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:47.239
    | text      = You know, it's crazy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:49.880
    | text      = Holds up.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:50.880
    | text      = Air Bud.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:51.880
    | text      = Air Bud.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:52.880
    | text      = I've never seen Air Bud.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:53.880
    | text      = That dog can play basketball and there's nothing in the rules.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:57.400
    | text      = He just jumps right in the air.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:01.000
    | text      = He jumps in the air and he hits the ball with his nose and the ball goes in the basket.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:04.880
    | text      = He doesn't bite it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:05.880
    | text      = He doesn't ever bite the ball.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:08.400
    | text      = No, he's too good.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:10.239
    | text      = He's Air Bud.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:11.239
    | text      = Listen, man, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:12.480
    | text      = I haven't seen, I haven't seen Air Bud or Space Jam.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:15.920
    | text      = You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of reference points that I'm going to miss,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:18.440
    | text      = like, you know, good for that dog.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:22.159
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:23.159
    | text      = Hopefully, hopefully.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:24.159
    | text      = I mean, I think they're on, maybe they've made 15 air blank.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:27.880
    | text      = Have they?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:29.440
    | text      = He's done many sports.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:31.039
    | text      = I believe he's done judo.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:33.239
    | text      = I think that's possible.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:35.679
    | text      = Air Bud is like the earnest of our time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:37.639
    | text      = How long is this dog supposed to be at this point?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:40.239
    | text      = Not to be insensitive.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:42.920
    | text      = I want to say four months.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:45.000
    | text      = Okay.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:46.000
    | text      = I don't know how long dogs live.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:50.320
    | text      = So that actually comes back to that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:53.320
    | text      = Does it?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:54.960
    | text      = Everybody on the cruise has an origin story.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:59.360
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:00.840
    | text      = And I keep finding all of these origin stories.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:04.199
    | text      = And even in your, even in the book, you know, these origin stories come from a very real
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:09.360
    | text      = place, a kernel of reality that is, that's, I guess, kind of thrown them out of whack
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:16.320
    | text      = or broken their brain in some fashion, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:20.320
    | text      = You know, like, people talk about how, oh, the government and the financial people ruined
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:28.519
    | text      = all of my taxes.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:30.340
    | text      = But at the same time, there are people who have just lost their way because it's been
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:35.039
    | text      = seized or whatever.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:37.159
    | text      = It is a thing that can happen and does happen to people.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:42.119
    | text      = And I'm interested as to how we would react if it, if somebody who, the difference between
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:50.400
    | text      = somebody who'd really experienced this behaving this way and somebody who has not experienced
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:55.440
    | text      = it behaving this way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:56.440
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:57.440
    | text      = So this is something that comes up a lot when you write about conspiracy theories is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:00.079
    | text      = systems of power in the US and in other countries are genuinely unjust.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:05.039
    | text      = The government has committed outrages and cover-ups and, you know, human rights abuses
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:09.199
    | text      = that we didn't find out about until years later.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:11.400
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:12.400
    | text      = And I write about this in the book, conspiracies held by, for instance, black Americans tend
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:17.239
    | text      = to be rooted in actual stuff that has happened to black people over, you know, the last say
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:23.719
    | text      = 200 years.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:24.960
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:25.960
    | text      = So a lot of conspiracy theories that are specifically held in black communities, even if they are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:30.559
    | text      = not literally true, make a sort of logical sense, like the idea that the levies were
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:34.599
    | text      = purposely blown up during hurricane Katrina echoes an earlier disaster where levies were
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:41.880
    | text      = purposely blown up during the, I want to say it was 1911, great flood triggering, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:49.239
    | text      = one of the greatest sort of mass migrations in American history, right, of black people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:53.079
    | text      = who had to move to the North because they were literally in danger of drowning.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:58.440
    | text      = And some did.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:59.480
    | text      = And so whenever you're talking to somebody who is, again, in the deep end of the pool,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:06.239
    | text      = you know, it is very common for people to say to me, like, how can you possibly trust
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:10.320
    | text      = the government?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:11.579
    | text      = How can you possibly believe the FDA, this or that?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:14.519
    | text      = And you know, the answer is I don't necessarily, it's not inherently unreasonable to trust
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:20.519
    | text      = the government, to believe that you were being lied to about something consequential.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:25.559
    | text      = But at the same time, for some folks, conspiracism becomes a sort of reflexive default viewpoint
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:32.639
    | text      = rather than something where they're actually acting based on evidence.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:36.380
    | text      = You know, it can become, I never believe the official story, no matter what it is, no matter
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:41.840
    | text      = how much evidence there is to support it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:44.360
    | text      = And so it can become almost debilitating for people in a way because their level of distrust
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:51.780
    | text      = makes them completely unable to see anything other than fear and suspicion.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:57.639
    | text      = So, but yeah, I mean, there are plenty of people who have become conspiracy theorists
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:03.159
    | text      = because things have happened to them or their communities that are genuinely outrageous
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:07.099
    | text      = and are the subject or, you know, are caused by misconduct or state violence.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:14.300
    | text      = So yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:15.300
    | text      = Sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:16.300
    | text      = That's not a good answer.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:17.300
    | text      = No, I understand.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:18.300
    | text      = But I mean, I suppose, I suppose by my deeper question is, isn't it not, isn't it incumbent
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:27.559
    | text      = upon, let's say, the government to not do conspiracies first?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:34.800
    | text      = That would be good.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:35.800
    | text      = That would be nice.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:37.519
    | text      = You know what I mean?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:38.519
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:39.519
    | text      = Are we, are we ever capable, you know, like the, the conversation about conspiracy theories
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:43.820
    | text      = often revolves around debunking conspiracy theories or how to keep people from going
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:48.739
    | text      = down these pathways.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:50.519
    | text      = But are we ever even capable of avoiding them if we do, if we just have a government that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:56.119
    | text      = does do conspiracies?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:57.119
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:58.119
    | text      = It can be really frustrating to listen to this sort of conspiracy theory discourse and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:01.719
    | text      = have it be centered around people talking about needing to like to quote unquote deprogram
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:06.159
    | text      = folks.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:07.159
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:08.159
    | text      = And often that point of view is being pushed by, you know, people in very like mainstream
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:11.559
    | text      = institutions, people in who could use a deprogramming, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:16.199
    | text      = People in positions of power who don't understand why anyone would ever believe in a conspiracy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:21.360
    | text      = theory because they don't personally have to, you know, like they are not people who
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:24.599
    | text      = have ever been disadvantaged.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:25.599
    | text      = They are not people who have ever been screwed by the government or some kind of system of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:29.639
    | text      = power.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:30.639
    | text      = And so they don't understand why people have these viewpoints.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:32.960
    | text      = So one thing that I always say is that I think the level of conspiracism in America and in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:38.559
    | text      = many other countries is almost like a form of collective trauma where there have been
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:43.519
    | text      = so many lies for so long that it has driven some people kind of out of their minds, like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:48.960
    | text      = they are completely unable to sort of adjust to a world where not everything is a lie.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:54.900
    | text      = And so there have been moments in American history where there has been a attempt at
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:00.639
    | text      = reconciliation and truth telling.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:03.219
    | text      = So the church committee in the 1970s was a really good example of that, where this was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:07.000
    | text      = when Americans found out about MK Ultra, about the sort of outrages committed by the FBI
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:13.880
    | text      = against civil rights groups, you know, and individual civil rights actors like Dr. King.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:19.400
    | text      = It was a moment when this was the U.S. government saying, you know, we have done these terrible
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:25.800
    | text      = things, but now we are going to do better, but instead it actually sort of created more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:29.940
    | text      = conspiracy theories because the logic went, you know, if they can admit to doing this,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:35.280
    | text      = what else are they lying about?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:36.599
    | text      = You know, the JFK assassination was sort of the same thing with the Warren Commission,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:40.719
    | text      = which, you know, was fairly rushed, did sort of come to what is seemingly a foregone conclusion.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:48.960
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:49.960
    | text      = There have been plenty of points in American history where even an attempt to tell the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:52.960
    | text      = truth has just resulted in people feeling more suspicious.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:57.039
    | text      = The way that the government talks about UFOs and aliens and sort of what we know as a country
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:02.719
    | text      = institutionally about UFOs, I mean, there are so many examples of this.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:08.719
    | text      = I think that's what the conspiracy theorists can teach us, though, is that I don't give
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:13.880
    | text      = a fuck about the truth.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:16.119
    | text      = People are interested in consequences also, if not perhaps many people far more so.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:23.920
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:24.920
    | text      = You know, like with so many of those things, yes, they have admitted to doing stuff, but
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:29.519
    | text      = then the FBI just keeps getting to do the stuff again tomorrow, and then they just do
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:35.960
    | text      = it again.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:36.960
    | text      = And then, like, you can't apologize to me and then do it again.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:40.440
    | text      = Then you've only confirmed to the conspiracy that you do conspiracy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:45.480
    | text      = Yes.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:46.480
    | text      = This has been an interesting thing, specifically with the FBI being like, okay, well, at one
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:50.239
    | text      = point, you know, we harassed civil rights leaders and created, you know, COINTELPRO
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:57.639
    | text      = and tried to make absolutely certain...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:00.800
    | text      = What's murdering Fred Hampton between frames?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:02.920
    | text      = Exactly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:03.920
    | text      = Come on, we've all been there.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:04.920
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:05.920
    | text      = I mean, you know, right up to the surveillance of Black Lives Matter demonstrators and people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:12.920
    | text      = at Standing Rock, I mean, yeah, it's pretty clear that some of the core things have kind
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:16.440
    | text      = of stayed the same.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:19.280
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:20.280
    | text      = So, you know, when people say, how can you possibly trust the government, like, I don't.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:25.880
    | text      = I don't expect anyone else to, but that can be really challenging at moments like the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:29.880
    | text      = pandemic and COVID, where you want people to trust sort of basic public health advice
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:34.480
    | text      = to be able to protect themselves.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:35.880
    | text      = And that was what was sort of so heartbreaking about the pandemic is that people died of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:41.880
    | text      = misinformation.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:42.880
    | text      = People got sick and died who didn't need to because they had so much trouble trusting
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:48.480
    | text      = the quote unquote mainstream or the official narrative.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:51.599
    | text      = I mean, that's a tragedy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:53.039
    | text      = Or, you know, when we talk about Alex Jones, people who had so much trouble trusting the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:57.539
    | text      = quote unquote mainstream or official narrative that they felt empowered to harass grieving
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:04.280
    | text      = families who lost their loved ones at Sandy Hook or at other times from other mass casualty
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:10.119
    | text      = events.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:11.119
    | text      = You know, these are folks whose beliefs have led them to incredibly dark places where often
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:18.480
    | text      = they make other people's lives worse.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:21.360
    | text      = And I mean, in it, it's it's I mean, it's almost a mirror that insofar as those people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:28.920
    | text      = who are responsible, you know, you have the government responsible for so much inaction.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:35.559
    | text      = I mean, depending on whether or not certain reports about Kushner true, downright murder
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:40.400
    | text      = of Democrat cities, because that might help with voting like these.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:45.539
    | text      = These are things that are people are not held accountable for.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:50.880
    | text      = And we also have people like Alex, who is not held accountable for the, you know, like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:57.840
    | text      = weak.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:58.840
    | text      = One of the things that keeps coming up is that idea of, you know, there aren't enough
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:01.840
    | text      = guys.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:03.039
    | text      = We keep seeing the same fucking people over and over and over again.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:07.119
    | text      = And it's because they apologize and then they get to come back.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:10.920
    | text      = I mean, even in the case of Alex Jones, I can't count the number of people who email
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:15.239
    | text      = me or tweet at me and are like, I thought that he lost this huge amount of money.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:20.440
    | text      = I thought he was held liable.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:21.920
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:22.920
    | text      = I mean, you and I have talked about this a little bit over email is just the idea that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:27.440
    | text      = like what people see going on with him right now is kind of a level of impunity where you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:35.239
    | text      = can be held liable for this massive judgment.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:37.199
    | text      = But it will take a very long time for that to catch up with him in any way that really
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:43.039
    | text      = sort of like matters or makes a difference.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:46.039
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:47.039
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:48.039
    | text      = I mean, like that if you have a legal system that is so bald faced, I mean, in the favor
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:55.119
    | text      = of the wealthy, I mean, if you can read a story that says at the very least, 10 percent
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:01.119
    | text      = of the Supreme Court is purchased by you know, isn't that wild?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:05.920
    | text      = How can you possibly and we're just so we're just like, it's so crazy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:12.000
    | text      = No backsies.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:13.000
    | text      = No backsies.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:14.000
    | text      = It's so wild to read just this incredible series of reports from places like ProPublica
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:19.719
    | text      = about the Supreme Court and just be like, oh, I guess we're not going to do anything
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:24.480
    | text      = about that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:25.480
    | text      = And so the problem is that it makes people even more cynical about participating on any
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:31.119
    | text      = level, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:32.119
    | text      = Like for so many people, they just say like, okay, I'm done participating.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:35.320
    | text      = I'm not going to vote.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:36.320
    | text      = I'm not going to read the news.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:37.320
    | text      = I'm going to decide that everything is fake and everything is corrupt and I'm just going
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:40.400
    | text      = to, I don't know, do whippets under the covers.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:46.199
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:47.199
    | text      = I don't know how you respond, but that can be bad, too, right, is to tell people, like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:51.000
    | text      = well, everything is rigged, so you might as well not participate.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:54.000
    | text      = You might as well not even try.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:55.420
    | text      = And that kind of like defeatism and sort of nihilism is something that I worry about because
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:00.119
    | text      = I think that's that's what they want, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:03.840
    | text      = You know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:04.840
    | text      = They.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:05.840
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:06.840
    | text      = Sooner or later, you get to a they.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:10.320
    | text      = Because because there is there is human intention behind the things that occur.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:15.539
    | text      = And that's the fucked up.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:17.719
    | text      = It's just it's so diffuse, you know, it's so many it's so many mid-level decisions that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:24.360
    | text      = generate, you know, like, oh, well, it's not just that a surgeon generals can say something.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:30.639
    | text      = It's that down along the line, there are a million different decisions, a million different
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:34.960
    | text      = conversations that happen with people passively accepting the existence of these people in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:41.320
    | text      = places of power.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:42.559
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:43.559
    | text      = It's really interesting to me, I guess, too.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:46.519
    | text      = It's a way to avoid having to talk about whether we can impeach a Supreme Court justice.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:51.199
    | text      = Maybe nobody wants to touch that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:52.460
    | text      = Maybe nobody just wants to wade into that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:53.960
    | text      = And so that's what's going on here.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:56.800
    | text      = I genuinely believe that the that a hard maybe one of the hardest parts of discourse right
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:05.039
    | text      = now is it feels like saying the truth about a thing that's occurring is acceleration is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:10.480
    | text      = weak.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:12.679
    | text      = Ten percent of the Supreme Court is owned by one man.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:16.179
    | text      = That is a true statement.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:17.480
    | text      = I don't know what to do with that beyond like if if a conspiracy theorist said that, you'd
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:22.039
    | text      = go, OK, calm down.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:23.920
    | text      = We need to there's not accurate reporting on this.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:27.480
    | text      = There's not enough.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:28.900
    | text      = And now now it's just that's true.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:31.400
    | text      = It's just a true thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:33.000
    | text      = Which which man?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:34.000
    | text      = Sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:35.000
    | text      = I'm trying to.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:36.000
    | text      = Oh.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:37.000
    | text      = Oh, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:38.000
    | text      = Clarence Thomas.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:39.000
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:40.000
    | text      = It's Leonard.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:41.000
    | text      = Leonard Leo.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:42.000
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:43.000
    | text      = Well, no.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:44.000
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:45.000
    | text      = OK.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:46.000
    | text      = Well, that guy is also the architect.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:47.000
    | text      = Well, again, that guy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:48.000
    | text      = Oh, man.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:49.000
    | text      = The Leonard Leo thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:50.000
    | text      = He just did a story where he's got 40, let's call it a small number of mostly white male
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:57.360
    | text      = justices in power gathering together to make larger decisions about judicial policy for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:03.400
    | text      = the future of the entire country.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:05.400
    | text      = Amazing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:06.400
    | text      = Without the input of anybody.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:08.400
    | text      = Amazing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:09.400
    | text      = I mean, this is well, this is what people worried about with Bohemian Grove and what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:13.719
    | text      = is actually happening in places that are probably not Bohemian Grove is this idea that by and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:19.280
    | text      = large things are happening out of our view and out of our control.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:22.599
    | text      = I understand why people feel that way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:24.000
    | text      = I do think, so this can be, this is going to sound like a subject change, but this can
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:28.159
    | text      = be frustrating for me because when I was first working as a reporter in my first few years
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:33.079
    | text      = I lived in Dallas and one of the first things I got assigned to do was cover redistricting,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:37.480
    | text      = which is super boring.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:38.960
    | text      = Like a redistricting meeting is like it was often just me and the city council members
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:43.679
    | text      = on the redistricting committee in the room because it's so boring and it happens on a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:47.679
    | text      = weeknight and you just sit there praying for it to end.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:50.800
    | text      = It is so important.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:52.360
    | text      = It was so important in determining who could vote and whether their votes mattered and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:56.880
    | text      = stuff like that that is incredibly sort of consequential, unsexy and also is the place
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:03.400
    | text      = where people's disenfranchisement starts.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:06.800
    | text      = There's no one there because that's how it happens.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:09.639
    | text      = They just, they bore you to death.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:11.639
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:12.639
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:13.639
    | text      = It's, I mean, there's a, there's a part of me that says that yes, that's what government
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:19.800
    | text      = should be.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:20.880
    | text      = Government should be so incredibly boring that it should not, there should be nothing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:25.320
    | text      = sexy about like apportioning things.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:30.400
    | text      = There should not, there should never be an interesting apportionment of grain subsidies
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:34.719
    | text      = conversation.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:35.760
    | text      = That should never happen.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:36.760
    | text      = Sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:37.760
    | text      = But now we view government as it's, as a contact sport.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:41.400
    | text      = You know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:42.400
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:43.400
    | text      = Well, and so people like say Marjorie Taylor Greene who do such insane and extreme things
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:49.360
    | text      = that they get stripped of their committee assignments in a way she's like, great, now
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:52.800
    | text      = I don't have to do any of the boring stuff and I can spend a hundred percent of my time
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:57.159
    | text      = yelling about whatever it is that she's yelling at.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:59.440
    | text      = Or people like George Santos, you know, George Santos is probably not doing a lot of actual
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:03.519
    | text      = work, but he has a lot of time to, you know, get in front of the cameras and act nutty.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:10.639
    | text      = You know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:13.519
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:14.519
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:15.519
    | text      = I don't, I mean, that's, that's one I can't quite get a read on, on the plan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:20.440
    | text      = George Santos.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:21.440
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:22.440
    | text      = Santos seems, he seems to be, there seems to be very much a kind of in the moment, one
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:27.360
    | text      = step ahead of a, he's a bit of Aladdin to me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:30.880
    | text      = I'm seeing a street rat kind of escaping from guards at all times.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:35.239
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:36.239
    | text      = He's about to jump off a ledge and land into law.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:38.559
    | text      = Yeah, I'm curious what's going to happen when he does eventually get convicted of some of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:44.280
    | text      = these things, because he's certainly going to, if he's just going to like hole up in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:48.000
    | text      = his office and refuse to leave or what.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:49.920
    | text      = Anyway.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:50.920
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:51.920
    | text      = I guess we'll see.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:52.920
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:53.920
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:54.920
    | text      = With the law, the legal system as it is, I don't even know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:59.960
    | text      = I don't trust it to do anything, which is the problem.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:02.639
    | text      = The legal system moves very slowly, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:05.079
    | text      = I mean, again, that's something we're seeing so much with the Alex Jones stuff is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:10.239
    | text      = these families are bogged down in appeals and motions and sort of gentle lawyerly ways
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:17.559
    | text      = of pointing out like, Hey, this guy is spending all of his money very overtly in public while
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:23.440
    | text      = our clients have not been paid the judgment that they are owed.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:26.960
    | text      = That stuff happens so slowly and these folks can do so much in the public view or can do
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:34.280
    | text      = so much damage if you see it that way while those processes are playing out.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:38.920
    | text      = Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:39.920
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:40.920
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:41.920
    | text      = And, and then, but that's where the, that's again, where the real kernel of the conspiracy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:46.480
    | text      = comes in is because I hear that justice moves so slow and I see that it moves so slow for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:53.679
    | text      = people with money and it moves so startlingly fast for people without money.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:57.800
    | text      = It certainly does.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:58.800
    | text      = You know, the amount of time that you can spend in jail awaiting trial on a petty theft
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:04.639
    | text      = charge and how quickly you can get there is, yeah, it's pretty striking.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:09.599
    | text      = It's not great.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:11.559
    | text      = So it's, it's coming to a place now where I see this, this disconnect wherein I see
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:22.039
    | text      = people of course, you know, and it comes back to one of the opening, you know, lines of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:26.920
    | text      = Republic of Lies here is that, you know, you felt a little bit bad for them and a little
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:37.480
    | text      = bit, and a little bit, you know, that idea.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:41.320
    | text      = And I, and I totally understand that and I think everybody feels that way to some varying
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:46.440
    | text      = extent or another.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:49.360
    | text      = I'm asking myself now, why is it that I don't want the people who are willing to do something
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:58.840
    | text      = about this perceived unreality on my side?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:04.239
    | text      = Why am I looking at the January 6th protesters and saying anything other than why would people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:12.360
    | text      = do this for fiction when the truth is so fucked up?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:16.679
    | text      = Why is it that fiction works and the truth won't get people to storm the Capitol?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:23.079
    | text      = Whether or not that is a legitimate or reasonable idea is out of, who gives a fuck about that?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:28.639
    | text      = My point is these are people who saw a perceived pedophile billionaire government, a government
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:35.480
    | text      = and went, fuck yeah, let's go.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:38.960
    | text      = I would, I want those people on my side whenever I see a billionaire pedophile government.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:43.440
    | text      = I think that you should never underestimate people's willingness and desire to engage
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:48.239
    | text      = in mob violence, ultimately.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:52.840
    | text      = So that's, that's, you're not going to get it on like a, you're not going to mobilize
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:56.820
    | text      = people.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:57.820
    | text      = You do not in fact have to hand it, you do not in fact have to hand it to the January
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:01.239
    | text      = 6th guys.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:02.239
    | text      = No, they did not have a plan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:04.559
    | text      = They were not coming out in the streets to, you know, demonstrate in favor of an idea.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:09.800
    | text      = They wanted to, and they did commit mob violence and then were very surprised when they got
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:15.860
    | text      = in trouble for it, which continues to be super interesting to me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:19.400
    | text      = But no.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:20.400
    | text      = Yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:21.400
    | text      = Maybe it's a good thing that we're not constantly out in the streets throwing fire extinguishers
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:26.440
    | text      = through windows and, you know, stealing Nancy Pelosi's desk files over other things.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:33.239
    | text      = You know, maybe that's a good thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:35.239
    | text      = Sure, sure.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:36.239
    | text      = I respect, I mean, again, I respect that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:38.559
    | text      = It's, it's, it's not that I think it is a good myth.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:44.000
    | text      = It's that I find it strange to live in a world where, you know, it is accepted and honest
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:52.840
    | text      = truth that a third of, you know, growing up, a third of our government is the judicial
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:58.679
    | text      = branch.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:59.679
    | text      = And it is accepted and honest truth that that is completely correct.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:05.920
    | text      = And that's just, and there's nothing that can be done about that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:09.559
    | text      = Yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:12.400
    | text      = That's a good question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:14.199
    | text      = Can anything be done about it?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:17.519
    | text      = I mean, theoretically, theoretically, but we have a president who won't do that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:22.719
    | text      = And no, no president coming in, in our reasonable future, the Supreme Court's not going to hold
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:31.420
    | text      = itself accountable.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:32.659
    | text      = Congress can't hold it accountable.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:34.420
    | text      = So we have all three branches of government unwilling to hold themselves accountable or
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:38.440
    | text      = each other accountable.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:40.440
    | text      = Which kind of dismantles that whole, like, checks and balances.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:44.000
    | text      = Yeah, I mean, I guess what we're talking about fundamentally is the difficulty in making
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:48.760
    | text      = sort of a systemic change that feels like it actually matters.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:53.639
    | text      = And I can say like, oh, well, you know, that stuff happens, but it happens very slowly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:57.079
    | text      = But I don't know that it does necessarily.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:58.960
    | text      = Yeah, I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:00.559
    | text      = Again, this is why I don't get invited to, like, think tank panels and whatever, because
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:06.719
    | text      = I'm not somebody who thinks that we can just vote our way out of this or fund whatever.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:16.159
    | text      = I don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:17.159
    | text      = There are some things that I am optimistic about on a personal level.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:21.440
    | text      = So there's this University of Cambridge study that I talk about all the time where these
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:24.320
    | text      = researchers created a game to teach people how misinformation spreads.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:29.119
    | text      = And you act as a misinformation peddler.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:31.760
    | text      = The game is called Bad News.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:33.360
    | text      = And you use all these different tactics to kind of promote lies.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:36.800
    | text      = And after people played the game, they were better at identifying fake headlines, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:41.000
    | text      = They were just better at sort of assessing news.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:44.360
    | text      = And so that tells me that, at least on individual levels, people can get better at figuring
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:48.639
    | text      = out when they're being lied to or manipulated, which ultimately, like, that's a small thing,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:51.920
    | text      = but that's a good thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:53.800
    | text      = It's good that people can learn those skills.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:56.920
    | text      = Especially younger generations, like, it can only help if folks are not as easily manipulated
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:03.760
    | text      = in the future as maybe some of the people out on January 6th were.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:08.119
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:10.119
    | text      = I mean, I suppose the problem I have with that kind of as a, I mean, it's not bad, obviously.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:18.440
    | text      = It's just that part of why people are susceptible is because it's not my job to notice.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:26.760
    | text      = It's not my job.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:27.760
    | text      = It's not my job to be able to parse news.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:31.739
    | text      = That shouldn't even be a thing I have to do.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:34.760
    | text      = I just, I'm a comedian.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:36.679
    | text      = I should absolutely not have to parse news.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:39.599
    | text      = That shouldn't be a job that exists.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:41.880
    | text      = Those are famous last words.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:43.599
    | text      = That's a fundamental aspect of the system that is fucked up, is that before I even get
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:50.699
    | text      = to figure out who I am, I am under attack by people who are capable of weaponizing information.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:57.320
    | text      = And it's going to get worse, I mean, as things like deepfakes get worse, as, you know, AI
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:03.920
    | text      = gets more sophisticated, like, it's only going to get harder to sort of trust what's in front
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:07.880
    | text      = of you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:08.880
    | text      = I've been doing all this reporting lately in the sort of Latter-day Saint world, and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:14.880
    | text      = I was listening to a conservative podcaster.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:16.639
    | text      = Yes, fantastic reporting, by the way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:18.480
    | text      = I was listening to this conservative podcaster who was talking about one of the sort of scandals
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:22.519
    | text      = that we've been reporting on, and he doesn't know whether or not to believe it, because
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:25.159
    | text      = it doesn't line up with his kind of political priors, and he said something that I was really
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:29.739
    | text      = struck by, where he said something like, you know, I believe that AI is going to become
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:33.719
    | text      = so sophisticated that someday we will have to, um, he was basically saying that he would
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:40.800
    | text      = have to trust in the Lord in the future to decide what was true and what was not in the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:45.159
    | text      = news, and what was manipulated and what wasn't, that he was just going to have to go by the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:48.440
    | text      = guidance of, like, the spirit, and what was sort of in his, like, spiritual judgment,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:52.960
    | text      = and that's terrifying to me, that...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:55.760
    | text      = Why?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:56.760
    | text      = Because that's completely different from what he's doing now.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:59.239
    | text      = I mean, fair enough, that is sort of what he's doing now.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:02.360
    | text      = It's fair enough.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:03.360
    | text      = I guess I'm worried about a future where people are even more comfortable saying, this doesn't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:08.880
    | text      = feel true to me, so I'm going to deride it as fake, and I'm worried about an informational
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:15.320
    | text      = ecosystem that becomes so chaotic that it is reasonable for people to feel that way,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:19.599
    | text      = that they can't separate truth from fiction.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:21.280
    | text      = There's a couple of really good books by a journalist named Peter Pomerantsev, who briefly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:27.079
    | text      = worked for, like, a hipster kind of alternative news channel in Russia, and came to kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:34.280
    | text      = understand that what he was actually doing, what he and his colleagues were doing, was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:37.760
    | text      = sort of like doing the acceptable form of opposition to the establishment, that essentially,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:44.039
    | text      = like, the Kremlin was still ultimately sort of determining what they were allowed to do
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:47.880
    | text      = and report on, and were sort of still in control of the information ecosystem, including the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:53.679
    | text      = sort of so-called opponents, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:55.679
    | text      = So he's written two books about kind of, like, state-backed disinformation and how it works
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:02.079
    | text      = and how it looks.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:03.079
    | text      = There's also a really interesting book about, completely separate, but about the kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:10.599
    | text      = counterculture in Germany right when the Berlin Wall fell.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:15.239
    | text      = And so a bunch of people in the sort of post-punk scene in Germany who had been out, like, demonstrating
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:21.760
    | text      = against sort of the wall and the kind of repressive government, it turned out were actually secretly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:26.659
    | text      = in the Stasi, and were actually being paid by the secret police.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:31.219
    | text      = And so a bunch of people who were, again, in the kind of, you know, scene who were protesting
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:40.760
    | text      = against the wall came to wonder if what they were doing and how they were doing it was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:44.800
    | text      = being secretly directed by the government that they were fighting against.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:48.920
    | text      = It's like this really interesting, yeah, I don't know, like, people have so much trouble
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:52.860
    | text      = figuring out who to trust and whether or not they're being manipulated, and that's not
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:57.119
    | text      = a new problem, but it's only getting worse.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:59.320
    | text      = Seems bad.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:00.320
    | text      = I do want to talk about your reporting on Tim Ballard, because I've been following this,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:07.840
    | text      = and it's one of the most emblematic stories of our time, I think, is like, the most famous
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:16.039
    | text      = anti-child trafficker in the United States is, of course, trafficking children from time
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:21.840
    | text      = to time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:22.840
    | text      = He is not trafficking children, per se.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:25.199
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:26.199
    | text      = What is going on?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:27.880
    | text      = You have to qualify that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:30.139
    | text      = So what I will say is the reporting that I have done with my colleague Tim Marchman indicates
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:36.000
    | text      = that he is being accused of sexual misconduct, and the women suing him for sexual misconduct
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:42.880
    | text      = while on these missions have said that the attorney said that he was functionally trafficking
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:49.159
    | text      = these women who are accusing him of sexual misconduct.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:51.480
    | text      = And so, you know, that is the accusation that they are making.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:56.679
    | text      = But yeah, certainly you can say that somebody who was a crusader against certain types of,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:01.599
    | text      = you know, sexual violence is being accused himself of sexual misconduct, which is certainly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:07.239
    | text      = very interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:10.760
    | text      = Not least of which to go along with the, I mean, Mormon revelations of faith.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:18.840
    | text      = How would you describe it?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:20.679
    | text      = So...
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:21.679
    | text      = He's the second coming of the prophet Ephos?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:25.119
    | text      = No.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:26.119
    | text      = But he is said to have spoken to the prophet Nephi, who is a figure in the Book of Mormon.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:37.079
    | text      = So what we know, again, is that Tim Ballard, the former head and founder of Operation Underground
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:44.800
    | text      = Railroad, whose work we have written about at Najim for the past three years, seemingly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:51.480
    | text      = believed that his anti-child trafficking work was to be used to lead people to the covenant,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:00.000
    | text      = as he called it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:01.000
    | text      = To lead people to Mormonism, and seemingly, according to people who talked to him about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:05.440
    | text      = this, who heard him talking about this, he believed himself to be kind of a messianic
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:11.639
    | text      = figure who was meant to, you know, do all of these extremely large and revelatory things
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:17.440
    | text      = in society.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:18.500
    | text      = He was also supposed to recently announce a run for Senate, which we had every indication
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:23.059
    | text      = that he was going to do that, and then all of these sexual misconduct allegations started
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:27.679
    | text      = coming out, and he has not done that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:30.559
    | text      = So I'm super curious if he's going to run for Senate, or if that's not going to happen
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:34.800
    | text      = anymore.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:35.800
    | text      = Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:36.800
    | text      = If he thinks he can just, you know, post through it, so to speak.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:40.760
    | text      = Yeah, I mean, because this was supposed to be, the Senate run was something we've been
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:44.199
    | text      = hearing about for years, that he was doing this anti-child trafficking work, that he
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:47.719
    | text      = saw himself as having a future as a Senator, and maybe the President of the United States,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:52.880
    | text      = and you know, that he was going to do all these like huge inconsequential things and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:55.519
    | text      = become an enormous kind of very famous public figure, and I am super curious if he tries
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:01.360
    | text      = to enact any of those things now that he is facing so much pushback.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:10.519
    | text      = I am interested to see how much the Mormon Church wants it out there that this dude thinks
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:19.360
    | text      = he can talk to dead cities, and whether or not that's like a totally okay thing for people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:27.000
    | text      = to do in Mormonism, and whether or not that's a totally okay thing for people in an elected
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:31.800
    | text      = office to believe.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:32.800
    | text      = I have no idea what the Mormon Church thinks about that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:37.320
    | text      = I'm not Mormon, you know, I've been kind of learning about the faith as I go, I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:42.559
    | text      = but the church did issue a statement to us, to me and Tim Marchman at Vice News, kind
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:49.079
    | text      = of denouncing him, saying that he had leveraged his relationship with a senior apostle in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:55.559
    | text      = the church, President M. Russell Ballard, who's in a very high position in the church,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:59.559
    | text      = saying that Tim Ballard, they're not related, they have the same last name, but they're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:02.440
    | text      = not related, had kind of-
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:06.199
    | text      = Happens a lot in Mormon.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:07.199
    | text      = Actually, yeah, there are a bunch of overlapping last names, where occasionally I'll get an
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:10.480
    | text      = email from someone and be like, oh, I know that you're LDS, because you have the, yeah,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:14.000
    | text      = it's a, you know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:15.000
    | text      = Anyway, saying that he had inappropriately sort of leveraged his friendship with M. Russell
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:19.000
    | text      = Ballard to promote his own financial interests and to, you know, conduct sort of morally
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:24.880
    | text      = unacceptable behavior, is I think what they called it, but they didn't specify what that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:28.239
    | text      = meant.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:29.239
    | text      = It could have been referring to sexual misconduct, we don't know.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:31.679
    | text      = So yeah, trying to get statements from the church about this has been super interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:37.239
    | text      = Yeah, that's such another aspect of this that I find both, like, so completely obvious,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:47.480
    | text      = so horrifically disgusting, and almost kind of pointless in a way, is that reflexive knee-jerk
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:52.960
    | text      = like, we're not willing to say what anybody did, we're not willing to take responsibility
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:58.380
    | text      = for anything, we're just giving you a statement that we're no longer associated with.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:02.639
    | text      = It was interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:03.639
    | text      = Yeah, well, so, okay, a couple things.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:06.059
    | text      = One is obviously-
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:07.059
    | text      = You could just say, fuck that guy!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:08.880
    | text      = That's available!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:09.880
    | text      = I mean, arguably they did, to the extent that it is, you know, permissible to say that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:16.840
    | text      = Here's the thing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:17.840
    | text      = A religious institution is an enormous bureaucracy, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:20.920
    | text      = And so we're super aware that when we get a statement from the Church of Jesus Christ
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:25.079
    | text      = of Latter-day Saints, it's gone through, like, layers and layers of, whatever, legal vetting,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:31.960
    | text      = you know, discussion, like, that every word has to be agreed on by a bunch of people.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:35.439
    | text      = So, you know, it's hard to get a statement from an institution.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:39.479
    | text      = There's been all this discussion lately about whether or not Tim Ballard has been excommunicated
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:43.359
    | text      = from Mormonism, which is a rumor that has been going around for years.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:46.760
    | text      = It is actually not something that we can conclusively prove or disprove, because the church will
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:52.520
    | text      = not issue a statement about it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:53.960
    | text      = That's not what they do, like, most of the time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:57.479
    | text      = And he would have to issue a statement about it, which he's, you know, not going to.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:01.000
    | text      = So that's been super interesting, to report on something where certain things are simply
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:05.479
    | text      = not knowable, unless the main character tells you, which, in this case, he hasn't chosen
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:10.199
    | text      = to do.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:12.199
    | text      = Well, thank you so much, Anna, for joining me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:17.199
    | text      = This has been an absolute delight.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:18.880
    | text      = Thanks for having me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:20.439
    | text      = Obviously your book is Republic of Lies, and your current advice, is there anything else,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:26.720
    | text      = anywhere else that people can find you?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:27.720
    | text      = I mean, I suppose you can find me on Blue Sky, if they ever let people join, and I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:33.000
    | text      = still on Twitter for now.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:35.000
    | text      = Yeah, and occasionally on German TV, talking about aliens.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:41.399
    | text      = I was interviewed by a German television station about aliens, and so occasionally I get, like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:47.000
    | text      = a rush of, like, follow requests from random Germans.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:49.800
    | text      = So do not follow me on Instagram, but, you know, if you're ever, you can't sleep in Germany,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:53.739
    | text      = you might see me on TV.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:54.739
    | text      = That'd be fun.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:55.739
    | text      = All right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:56.739
    | text      = Cool.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:57.739
    | text      = Look out for that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:58.739
    | text      = We have German wonks.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:59.739
    | text      = No problems.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:00.739
    | text      = I'm sure, I'm sure you do.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:01.739
    | text      = Well, thank you very much.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:02.739
    | text      = Thanks for having me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:03.739
    | text      = And, yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:04.739
    | text      = Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:05.739
    | text      = Thanks for holding.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:06.739
    | text      = Hello, Alex.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:07.739
    | text      = I'm a first time caller.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:08.739
    | text      = I'm a huge fan.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:09.739
    | text      = I love your work.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:10.739
    | text      = I love you.
}}

[[Category:Transcripts]]