Transcript/889: The Debate Of The Century, Part 2

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I'll see you later.

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Riddilio, riddilio, riddilio, riddilio, riddilio, riddilio.

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Knowledge five.

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Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

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Knowledgefive.com.

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It's time to pray.

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I have great respect for knowledge five.

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Knowledge five.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys,

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bad guys. Knowledge Fight. Dan and Jordan. Knowledge Fight. Riddler. Riddler. Riddler.

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Riddler. Need. Need. Money. Riddler. Riddler. Riddler. Riddler. Andy and Kansas. Andy and

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Kansas. Stop it. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy and Kansas.

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You're on the air. Thanks for holding us. Hello Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan.

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I love your work. Knowledge Fight. Knowledge Fight dot com. I love you. Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're couple dudes. Sit around.

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Worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed we are.

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Dan. Jordan. Dan. What's up? Quick question for you. What do you have? What's your bright spot

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today buddy? My bright spot, we spent a bit of time before the show talking about it.

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Oh indeed we did. But there's a new season of Traders. Fantastic. And the Bean Town Prince

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CT is up in there. And he's killing it. I'm going to be honest with you. I have no clue

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what's going on right now. Everything. He lives up to the promise of what CT on this show

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could be. Yup. I'm excited for him to be confused continuously. Non stop. It's going to be

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awesome. It is the best. It's just great. But anyway, same as last time. We got a lot to

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get through and I got to cut this short. But I'm excited. I enjoyed the beginning of that

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show and I hope for good things for everybody involved. Indeed. And in their future endeavors.

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And never, never enough to say about how great Alan Cummings is. Yeah. Just so good.

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You know, damn it. I said we don't have time. I'm sorry. But I noticed a change in

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overall wardrobe aesthetic. Seemed like last season he was going with a lot of weird plaids.

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That's true. And there's been less of that so far this season. There's been less tartan.

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That is true. Which I think is bold. Wait. Yeah, he's great. Alan Cummings is great.

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I'm a Fergus stan. Oh my god, so great. Just his beard. Watch it walk, ambling into screen.

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I go, oh look at you. Yup. Subtleties. What's your bright spot? My bright spot is I scheduled

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another tattoo, my man. Yeah, it's been a while. What are you getting? I'm getting a

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band right around my right arm filling in this last bit. Oh, you're going to finally

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get that barbed wire you've been talking about. No. Oh. No, it's actually the four elements

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from Legend of Korra. My wife drew a beautiful whole thing. Are those different elements

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than ours? Well, earth, air, fire, and then TV. Those are the four elements in real life,

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I believe. Yeah. It's the same. No, I'm excited. It's going to be fun. Nice. I got a whole

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session. It's a little bit more expensive than I wanted. That'll happen. You know, you'd

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always rather pay more than less for a tattoo in my estimation. Given that it's a permanent

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thing, it's kind of tough to be like, I'm going to go with a cut rate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We get a discount on this tat. Yup. Well, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

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Yup. Congrats. I'm excited. I'm going to get a tattoo of Fergus on my chest. Oh, that's

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a good one. The beard underneath the beard. My chest hair will be his beard. Yes, that'll

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be great. So, Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. Let's do it. Talking about the

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culmination, summation, and participation in the rest of the debate that Alex had with

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the Krasnostein brothers, Destiny, Glenn Greenwald, and Darren Beatty. Oh, I forgot. Very forgettable.

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Yes, the hole in the universe that is Darren Beatty. So, we're going to go over the rest

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of that and talk about it. I'll be honest, I have a little bit of a feeling of, oh my

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god, we're doing too much. Sure. Because we had the Jimmy Dore episodes, and those were

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pretty long. Yeah. And then we had your interview with Ronson. That was a tight hour ten, man.

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No, that's true. I kept that tight. It adds up when the second part of the Jimmy Dore

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episode was two hours and forty minutes. Sure, that's true. And then our first part of the

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debate coverage was three and a half hours. Sure. It's a little bit much. So, I'm definitely

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going to say we're not going to have a Wednesday episode this week, for sure. Yeah, that's

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definitely a good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm considering skipping Friday, even, also,

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just to give a little bit. But then the Iowa caucus is on Monday. As we're recording this

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on Sunday, it's tomorrow. Sure. So, it feels like we maybe can't take that much time away.

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Is there anything to say about the Iowa caucus, though? It hasn't happened yet.

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That's about all there is to say. She can go crazy. Yeah, okay. You heard from Laura

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Loomer. They're using bio control of the weather. Oh, that's right. They're making it cold so

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people won't vote for Trump. You got it. That's actually a very brilliant thing. See, we have

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important stuff like that to discuss. Yeah, old people don't like the cold. That's because

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their skin is wiggly. That's how I know I'm old. Yep. I don't like the cold. Don't like

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the cold. So, yeah, we'll probably do something about the Iowa caucus on Friday. But, I don't

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know, game time decision if we punt that to Monday. Just because we're doing way too fucking

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much. It's a lot. Oh, another point I wanted to make, a little correction from the first

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episode. Sure. When I was talking about Destiny's early path towards this debating

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stuff, I brought up JonTron because that was kind of like the debate that turned him, that

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broke this kind of direction. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the

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Carson's couch. When I mentioned him, I said that he was on Game Grumps, the YouTube channel.

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And people have corrected, and I didn't realize this because I don't know all the intricate

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details. But he wasn't on that channel at the time and I shouldn't have associated the

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two of them because apparently that channel is fine and it shouldn't be characterized

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by this person who is kind of a dick. Right, right, right. Gotcha. So, I unfairly kind

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of made it seem like, you know, he was a central part of it while he was saying racist

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xenophobic stuff. They are extricable from each other. Right, right. And I should have

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been clear about that and that's my bad. That's good. So, let's get down to business

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on this, Jordan, the rest of this garbage. But first, let's say hello to some new wonks.

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That's great. So first, I listened to 57,464 minutes of Knowledge Fight this year and now

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I can kill God. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much. Is that Gore? I believe we have to attack and dethrone him.

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You're not going to give me credit for Gore reference? I actually don't know that reference.

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Isn't that guy from Thor who kills gods? Gore? Isn't that his name?

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Gore the God Killer? Is that the name? Isn't that his name? I don't know. I don't know.

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I thought it was. Wait, his name was Gore? I don't know. It rhymes with Gore? I'm sorry.

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Next, Jess, Dryden is a hellscape and we should get out. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Next, AllHailBazazian, thank you so much.

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You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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Next, Austin Brill, thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much. And Ian Nelson, Merry Christmas. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And we got Technocrat in the mix, Jordan.

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So thank you so much to Wonks Unite. Go vote for my dad Terry Sportsman for the Green Bay Packers Fan Hall of Fame.

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You can vote once a day until January 31st. Help me get him inducted. Just search Packers Fan Hall of Fame in Google.

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Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk.

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Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone, someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.

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Daddy Shark. Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.

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He's a loser. Little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ.

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Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Pulling for your dad. I think that's a fake name. Terry Sportsman.

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Here's what I saw. I read the email and I was like, I will get anyone's dad into any hall of fame if at all possible.

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Yeah. I can't vote because Green Bay, you know. Chicago, it's legally. You committed a felony in Wisconsin.

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It's legally against the law for me to vote for anything in Green Bay. I have a little update.

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I looked it up and you're a fucking asshole because Gore the God Butcher is the name of the character.

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Nice. I wasn't, I didn't know that was the name. I one upped you on a nerd thing. You win. Yeah.

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Yeah. I win. Yeah. Yeah. You win. So we got a little out of context drop to begin us here because I thought this was delightful.

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Glenn, you're a, you're a, you're a well respected journalist. You look around the world.

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Ooh, got his ass. That was pretty snippy. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Good work.

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So we start things off here and it's about where we left off and they're talking, talking a little bit about media censorship.

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And that being the real way you steal an election. Right.

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And part of this is because they all want to pretend that they didn't like get into Dominion voting machine.

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Sure, sure, sure, sure. Because all of that looks bad and Fox News got sued and all that.

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And the people who are pushing those conspiracy theories have had to recant in court. They're like, oh yeah, we were just fucking around.

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Let's just pretend that that didn't happen. We'll forget about it and everybody moves forward.

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We'll move into another thing that we're actually, that's the real issue that we're talking about.

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The real thing. Until next time, whatever. The more meaningful type of interference is the censorship, is all of the other tools that have been deployed in order to rig the election.

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I think that's more significant. And then the sort of more hyperbolic claims regarding, you know, hacking the machines and or, you know, so forth.

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The claims that Trump was making. These kinds of things.

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So then you agree that Trump was wrong when he said it was a stolen election?

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Well, it depends what specific claim he's using.

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It's a definitional thing.

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Let's say when Trump kept pushing that Dominion, that Dominion was switching votes and it cost him Georgia.

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That I don't believe in the Dominion stuff.

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Yeah, I don't either. It was a lie.

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Trump was lying about it.

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Trump was lying about it.

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He was lying.

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But see, we're to be honest here. The point is, is that, is that the State Department runs around the world looking at everybody else's elections.

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And the number one thing you get sanctions for is taking a candidate off the ballot.

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And that's what Democrats are doing right now. And America sees that.

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The Democrats are not doing it. That's going to go to the courts.

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Republicans actually filed a suit in the courts.

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It's not the Democrats, Secretary of State, in Maine.

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You just said the Democrats aren't doing it.

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Alex in Colorado. Alex in Colorado.

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God damn, that's a lie.

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Alex in Colorado who filed a suit.

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Six people. How many of them are Democrats?

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How many were Democrats out of the six? How many?

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How many were Republicans who filed a suit?

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Five of the six people who filed a suit in Colorado to get Trump off the ballot were Republican.

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So stop saying Democrats.

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Democrats don't want Trump off the ballot.

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Glenn's actually responding.

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Horse shit.

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Okay, okay.

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So yeah, we start off a little more action-packed than where we began last time.

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Because Alex is already pretty drunk.

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I'm pretty excited about that.

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He disappears a few times and he's clearly drinking more and smoking cigarettes.

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I assume it's on camera.

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Uh, what? The debate itself?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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They don't follow him when he leaves to go drink.

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God, that would be so good.

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That would be nice if there was like a body cam on a...

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Yeah, like a WWE thing, like they followed him right behind you. That'd be great.

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So Alex has claimed repeatedly on air that he has evidence and it's been proven that Dominion voting machines are part of the stealing of the 2020 election.

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For him to pretend otherwise because it's inconvenient in this debate and it might get him sued is really pathetic.

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Stick to your guns, young man.

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So Darren's stance is interesting because I haven't listened to thousands of hours of him talk, so I don't know all the stupid shit that he's said over the years.

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When I can do those, I can go over the articles that he's aggregated on Revolver News and see what kind of a message they sent.

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So we've got a headline here, written by white nationalist Patrick Howley from Nationalphile, a website that Alex secretly owns,

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that says, quote, exclusive, government agency believes Dominion uses cellular modems experts say could wreak havoc on an election.

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Sure.

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Excuse me, maybe implying those machines were involved in the seal.

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It could happen.

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Well, here's an article from Zero Hedge, the funders of the debate we're listening to that was put on Revolver News.

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Quote, Dominion whistleblower testifies on complete fraud at Detroit voting center.

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Huh, that's weird.

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Here's an interesting article from a site called Creative Destruction Media, which is just a blog editorial with the headline, quote, Obama and Pelosi didn't win elections in the last decade.

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It was Dominion.

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Really seems like a sentiment Darren wouldn't be supporting.

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Here he is, linking to an obscure blog, making that claim.

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That's strange.

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We're doing it for money.

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Oh, shit, I should have said we believe it.

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Here's another one.

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Quote, exclusive, breaking news, both of those exclamation points.

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Report backs allegations of fraud against Dominion voting systems.

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Or, quote, Kraken release, Powell files Georgia lawsuit over voter fraud, Dominion, only 12,000 votes needed to overturn election.

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Man, it seems like Darren's website was pushing quite a bit of this stuff that he doesn't believe is true at all.

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That's strange.

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Has everybody noticed yet that the people who are designated as Krakens are usually bad?

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Well, I mean, it's a monster that was used as a weapon, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I'm just saying, like, maybe that should be an easy signal for us.

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If their nickname is the Kraken, we just go, ha ha, caught ya, no.

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Was the Kraken also, I believe it was an antagonist.

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Like, it wasn't used by the hero of that story.

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No, not a good guy.

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No.

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Evil Kraken.

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Evil weapon beast.

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Giant evil weapon beast, yes.

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So, Ian wants to get things a little bit on track.

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And so, there's a question, and then everything just falls the fuck apart.

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He called it Happy Entrapment Day, talking about January 6th.

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You guys think that it was an entrapment?

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Talk about Trump saying that.

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100%.

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100%, Donald Trump entrapped all those poor people to be there.

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Yeah, that's true.

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They probably thought he'd bail them out, but then he pardoned them like he did every other person.

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Yes, they thought he was convicted of any crime.

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We want a 10-day investigation, that's why he said, be peaceful.

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Because Trump was always calling for supporters.

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He called for them to fight like hell, and Giuliani says that.

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Fight like hell means for our freedom and our vote and our country.

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Okay, and people can say things that they don't mean in words.

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Hey, when you go to a high school football game at the pep rally, and then the shooters go, fight, fight, fight, fight.

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Trial by combat, that doesn't mean anything either.

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That's a legal term.

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I think the thing that's most instructive to see what Donald Trump wanted to happen that day,

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is that when he sat down and he watched the violence unfolding on TV,

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when he saw the people fighting with cops, when he got notification that Ashley Babbitt had been shot,

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Donald Trump did not take steps to stop the violence that day.

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Instead, him and Giuliani made phone calls to senators and congressmen trying to get them to stall the vote.

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What do you guys think ethically about people in politics telling people to go fight?

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Do you find it to be misleading?

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Look, we're not a neutered population.

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I have Democrats, during the impeachment for this, they shut it down when finally Trump put a five-minute video on

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of Democrats saying, attack them at grocery stores, attack them at gas stations, attack.

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We need civil insurrection.

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What do we think about the term battleground state?

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The problem is typical political rhetoric.

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Nobody is upset because Donald Trump said fight like hell.

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People are upset because for months or years, really even in 2016,

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Donald Trump has consistently attacked and undermined the electoral process

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with absolutely no good reason, from no foundation,

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and that when he had the chance to on January 6th,

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the deep state on him for the four years of this administration,

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is there any evidence Trump is a Russian agent?

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No, but that's why he wasn't convicted or charged with any crimes for it.

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But they were the ones saying that the American voters were manipulated by the Russians.

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They were the ones saying Hillary is currently sitting.

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They tried.

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They have a charge for insurrection.

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The Hillary is currently saying Trump is going to steal the election.

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Is Hillary saying Trump is going to steal the election?

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Why is Hillary saying Trump is going to steal the election?

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Why wasn't Trump indicted?

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I want this to last forever.

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That would be good TV, but I'm not going to do it.

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You won't stop. I will dominate.

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Guys, what we need to do is listen to me for a moment.

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We don't speak over each other. What we do is we listen to each other take turns.

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It becomes way better.

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Can I finish my statement?

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Is it okay that Hillary is on TV this week three times I saw saying Trump is going to steal the election?

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Why is she allowed to?

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Rent free in your head right now.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:21.519)

That's true.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:22.519)

That clip is really interesting because you can kind of see how Alex's brain works.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:26.519)

The clip starts with Ian introducing the question of if J6 was entrapment.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:30.519)

Obviously, it's Alex's job to say that it was and that the globalists did it to make Trump and his supporters look bad

Unknown Speaker (00:17:35.519)

so they couldn't get their very cool and reasonable demand of an imaginary 10-day investigation that Alex insists is in the Constitution.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:41.519)

Incidentally, that's not true.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:43.519)

Ted Cruz is arguing that there should be a 10-day investigation,

Unknown Speaker (00:17:46.519)

which was based on what happened in the 1876 election between Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:51.519)

In that case, three states had sent dueling sets of electors for certification,

Unknown Speaker (00:17:56.519)

whereas with Trump, no state actually sent two slates.

Unknown Speaker (00:17:59.519)

Trump and his allies tried to get and send fraudulent slates of electors to the states or from the states,

Unknown Speaker (00:18:05.519)

but they hadn't been approved, so the circumstances are completely different

Unknown Speaker (00:18:08.519)

and there's zero reason to think that Trump was entitled to some sort of 10-day investigation.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:12.519)

There had already been plenty of investigation. He just didn't like the results.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:15.519)

So Destiny introduces the idea that it was Trump that entrapped the followers who thought he would have their backs if they got arrested.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:21.519)

Alex pushed back on that by saying that Trump told them to be peaceful.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:25.519)

The Fight Like Hell line is evoked, and Alex says that people can use fight in nonviolent contexts.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:30.519)

Up to this, he's a little slurry, but this is a completely normal thought path.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:34.519)

Some of the things he's saying aren't true, but they're direct rebuttals to the things that are being said to him.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:39.519)

So Destiny brings up the fact that Trump did nothing to stop the violence,

Unknown Speaker (00:18:42.519)

and this indicates his position more than whatever words he's using, like his inaction.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:48.519)

Actions are more than words.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:50.519)

And almost as if he exists as a defensive crutch for Alex,

Unknown Speaker (00:18:53.519)

Ian comes in as the moderator to ask a totally new question

Unknown Speaker (00:18:56.519)

and what they think of politicians saying that people should fight.

Unknown Speaker (00:18:59.519)

This allows Alex to again restate his normal position that fight can be said in a nonviolent context,

Unknown Speaker (00:19:05.519)

so in effect what Ian has achieved is to undo the point that Destiny made.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:08.519)

Alex can reset to the point before something came up that he couldn't really handle.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:12.519)

Beatty comes in and gets a little pedantic by asking about what about battleground states,

Unknown Speaker (00:19:17.519)

to which Destiny explains that the context around words matters more

Unknown Speaker (00:19:20.519)

and that the problem is that Trump had been fraudulently attacking the electoral system

Unknown Speaker (00:19:23.519)

the entire time he'd been running since 2016.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:26.519)

To rebut that, Alex says it was the Dems who were attacking the electoral system,

Unknown Speaker (00:19:30.519)

they were the deep state who undermined Trump by calling him a Russian agent.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:34.519)

Destiny brings up multiple points in response to this that Alex just ignores,

Unknown Speaker (00:19:37.519)

that the supposed deep state is all people Trump appointed,

Unknown Speaker (00:19:40.519)

or that Trump was never charged or convicted of being a Russian agent.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:43.519)

He asks Alex if Trump was ever charged, and Alex says they tried to charge him.

Unknown Speaker (00:19:52.519)

Now you're not going to do it?

Unknown Speaker (00:19:55.519)

That brings up the next obvious point, which is if the system is so corrupt

Unknown Speaker (00:19:58.519)

and the courts are hijacked entirely, then why would they ever fail to charge him?

Unknown Speaker (00:20:02.519)

All the while, Alex is trying to yell about what he wants to talk about, which is,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:07.519)

Hillary's been saying all this shit, and it's a complete non-issue.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:10.519)

In order to get back to that subject he wants to talk about,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:13.519)

he has to constantly swat down the things Destiny is bringing up

Unknown Speaker (00:20:16.519)

to try to keep the line of inquiry moving.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:19.519)

Destiny's trying to stay on track, somewhat.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:21.519)

So why would they fail to charge him if the system is so corrupt?

Unknown Speaker (00:20:25.519)

Alex's answer is that they didn't charge Trump with insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:29.519)

That seems like a response, but it isn't.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:31.519)

I'm close to a response.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:32.519)

Destiny tries to repose the question because it wasn't answered,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:34.519)

and Alex just keeps yelling,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:35.519)

Why is Hillary saying Trump's supposed to steal the election?

Unknown Speaker (00:20:38.519)

Yeah, and then they got into a nice little call and response thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:41.519)

It was fun.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:42.519)

He has risen.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:43.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:44.519)

He has risen indeed.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:45.519)

There you go.

Unknown Speaker (00:20:46.519)

It's very clear if you're paying attention that this is Alex,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:49.519)

it's veering off into non-sequiturs and bullying,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:52.519)

but when the moderator steps in to say that they need to not talk over each other,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:55.519)

Alex plays the victim and says that Destiny keeps talking over him,

Unknown Speaker (00:20:58.519)

and he's just going to dominate him.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:00.519)

This is very revealing because it shows what Alex thinks dominating is.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:03.519)

For him, conversation is a form of violence.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:06.519)

If Destiny is making a point he doesn't like,

Unknown Speaker (00:21:08.519)

he isn't going to let him finish and then address it.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:10.519)

He's going to beat the shit out of him by yelling

Unknown Speaker (00:21:12.519)

and make sure no one ever gets a point across

Unknown Speaker (00:21:14.519)

and nothing gets fully articulated in the hope that at some point

Unknown Speaker (00:21:17.519)

that yelling will end up leading to facilitating the change of topic.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:21.519)

For a moderator to not understand that this is the game Alex is playing

Unknown Speaker (00:21:25.519)

and for them to actively facilitate his playing it,

Unknown Speaker (00:21:27.519)

it shows that this is not and was never meant to be a sincere debate.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:31.519)

This is clickbait bullshit featuring a coked-out idiot bullying everyone

Unknown Speaker (00:21:35.519)

and then pretending that no one is letting him talk.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:37.519)

Essentially, Alex is dominating in his definition of the word

Unknown Speaker (00:21:40.519)

because he's stacked the deck.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:42.519)

He's good friends with the people who run Zero Hedge who's funding this debate.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:46.519)

It's being held in his studio.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:47.519)

Two of his opponents are the Kreisenstein brothers.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:49.519)

The moderator is Tim Pool's stupidest co-host.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:52.519)

If these pieces weren't there, Alex's bullying would be disrupted.

Unknown Speaker (00:21:55.519)

If the moderator was competent, unbiased as a person,

Unknown Speaker (00:21:58.519)

they would be there to keep things on track.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:01.519)

Alex, in that circumstance, would have been silenced

Unknown Speaker (00:22:03.519)

and maybe kicked off the panel by this point.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:05.519)

Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:06.519)

Because, again, you can't do the thing that we're doing.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:10.519)

His behavior is out of line unless all you want is sensational fireworks.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:15.519)

If this was being funded by anyone other than Zero Hedge,

Unknown Speaker (00:22:18.519)

he probably would have been kicked off for clearly being high at some point.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:22.519)

Well, there's that.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:23.519)

If this wasn't being held in his studio,

Unknown Speaker (00:22:25.519)

the people running everything wouldn't be people on his payroll

Unknown Speaker (00:22:28.519)

and maybe would mute his mic.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:30.519)

They could just mute his mic.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:31.519)

Alex would never do a debate like this without those conditions being met

Unknown Speaker (00:22:34.519)

because he doesn't like to debate.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:36.519)

He likes to look like he's dominating,

Unknown Speaker (00:22:38.519)

and he can't do that if anyone with the authority is there to reel him in.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:43.519)

Unless he can stack the deck, he can't dominate.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:46.519)

He can only dominate in these circumstances,

Unknown Speaker (00:22:48.519)

and that's why he'll only really exist within those circumstances.

Unknown Speaker (00:22:51.519)

Yeah, well, I mean, there's...

Unknown Speaker (00:22:54.519)

When you're a person who exists as your own boss,

Unknown Speaker (00:22:58.519)

then you really can't go back.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:00.519)

And the idea of restraints inside of this kind of scenario is just...

Unknown Speaker (00:23:07.519)

You can't do it. You can't do it.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:09.519)

I mean, there's a part of it where you're getting one of those questions

Unknown Speaker (00:23:14.519)

from the Krasnsteins or whatever, and you have to just go,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:19.519)

I'm wrong. And then what do you do then?

Unknown Speaker (00:23:22.519)

You'd hope. You'd hope that that would be a response.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:24.519)

Like, yeah, you know what?

Unknown Speaker (00:23:26.519)

Well, I mean, actually, to be fair,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:28.519)

Alex is trying to do that with Trump,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:30.519)

with all the lies being like, well, he was wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:32.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:33.519)

Oh, he said that the Dominion voting machines,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:35.519)

he was lying about that.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:36.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:37.519)

He was wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:38.519)

So instead of actually owning up and discussing the reality of that,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:41.519)

he's using the idea of being wrong as an enabling excuse.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:46.519)

Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:47.519)

Which is not cool.

Unknown Speaker (00:23:49.519)

I mean, specifically in the context of the debate,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:52.519)

you eventually have to concede on...

Unknown Speaker (00:23:55.519)

If you're going to have an honest debate, which we can't do,

Unknown Speaker (00:23:58.519)

but if you're going to have these positions in competition with each other,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:02.519)

devoid of the people involved, eventually on one side you have to go,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:08.519)

this is a factual inaccuracy.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:10.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:11.519)

And then if you have to admit that one factual inaccuracy exists,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:14.519)

that spirals out of control until we go, oh, the debate is over.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:19.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:20.519)

Well, and I think that that highlights one of the problems,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:23.519)

which is like the entire premise of the debate is ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:26.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:27.519)

It's a factual inaccuracy.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:29.519)

Well, at very least, the people who have the burden of proof,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:34.519)

which is saying that it was a manufactured event, January 6th,

Unknown Speaker (00:24:37.519)

have absolutely no evidence of that.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:39.519)

None.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:40.519)

Not even a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:41.519)

And have not even considered trying to bring any.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:43.519)

And the people who are saying that it wasn't are well-prepared

Unknown Speaker (00:24:47.519)

to deal with any of the things that might come up

Unknown Speaker (00:24:50.519)

in the course of the feeling and opinion-based arguments that'll happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:24:55.519)

And so it's debating a factual issue, but not in terms of facts.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:01.519)

But not in terms of facts.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:02.519)

But that's why it goes off into all these fucking side shits

Unknown Speaker (00:25:05.519)

and no one defines any terms to use as a guide for like,

Unknown Speaker (00:25:09.519)

this is what we mean by this.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:11.519)

There's no structure to the conversation because why would there be?

Unknown Speaker (00:25:15.519)

If you do, this is over in ten minutes.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:17.519)

Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:18.519)

We don't need to be here.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:20.519)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:21.519)

Their fundamental position when they walked into the room was,

Unknown Speaker (00:25:25.519)

we are lying.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:27.519)

It's ironic because we are so deep into our conversation about this,

Unknown Speaker (00:25:31.519)

but this is a waste of time.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:33.519)

And so are we.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:34.519)

We are five hours into this wasting everybody's time.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:37.519)

So the conversation comes to the point of asking,

Unknown Speaker (00:25:41.519)

wait a second, so why didn't they steal the 2016 election?

Unknown Speaker (00:25:44.519)

Good question.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:45.519)

And Alex has his talking point for that.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:47.519)

Let's hear it.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:48.519)

Did Hillary Clinton try to force Joe Biden in 2016

Unknown Speaker (00:25:52.519)

to certify the electoral votes?

Unknown Speaker (00:25:54.519)

No, because the landslide was so big.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:57.519)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (00:25:58.519)

The Biden had a pretty good landslide.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:00.519)

Wait, hold on, what do you mean the landslide was so big?

Unknown Speaker (00:26:02.519)

Hillary won the popular vote.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:04.519)

Biden won by more electoral votes before her eyes.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:09.519)

So Trump didn't win the 2016 election.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:11.519)

What?

Unknown Speaker (00:26:12.519)

Trump didn't win.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:13.519)

No, of course, which one?

Unknown Speaker (00:26:14.519)

2016.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:15.519)

He didn't win the popular vote.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:16.519)

Both Russia helped, right?

Unknown Speaker (00:26:17.519)

He didn't win the popular vote.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:18.519)

No, from the evidence I've seen, he had a huge landslide.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:21.519)

They tried to steal it with illegal alien voters,

Unknown Speaker (00:26:23.519)

but it's still, Trump was so big.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:24.519)

We're not all privy to the election that exists in your head.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:26.519)

I know, there's no illegal aliens.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:28.519)

The Democrats ran for voting.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:29.519)

The rest of us on earth don't get hurt.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:31.519)

We gotta go by what people in reality say.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:34.519)

I'm so sorry Alex.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:35.519)

People know you're wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:37.519)

The states with the illegals are getting more.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:39.519)

California just got six more congressional seats from the illegal aliens.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:43.519)

We need you to come up and rise up, there it is.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:47.519)

I'm tied down.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:48.519)

There's no invasion.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:49.519)

There's no border.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:50.519)

I just think that there was federal involvement here,

Unknown Speaker (00:26:52.519)

or there was, what the extent of it was.

Unknown Speaker (00:26:56.519)

Okay, so you're getting to, I guess, an illuminating question, which is great.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:01.519)

I mean, okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:03.519)

I'm glad we're onto a new subject.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:06.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:07.519)

Did the feds do it?

Unknown Speaker (00:27:08.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:09.519)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:10.519)

What evidence do you have?

Unknown Speaker (00:27:12.519)

So Alex isn't used to saying these kinds of things about the election being stolen

Unknown Speaker (00:27:16.519)

in front of people who aren't involved in the same scam as him,

Unknown Speaker (00:27:19.519)

so he's unaccustomed to the response that you just saw there.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:22.519)

He can't back up this stuff about 2016,

Unknown Speaker (00:27:24.519)

and more to the point is explanation doesn't even make sense.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:27.519)

Even if there was a big landslide victory for Trump that year,

Unknown Speaker (00:27:30.519)

why couldn't Hillary try the same plot Trump tried to send fake slates of electors?

Unknown Speaker (00:27:35.519)

Because then it would look like the landslide wasn't as big.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:38.519)

This explanation, it's one that only works when you're just trying to patch up plot holes

Unknown Speaker (00:27:42.519)

to make sure that people who've bought into your shit

Unknown Speaker (00:27:44.519)

don't get stuck on something that doesn't make sense.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:47.519)

It's a Band-Aid type of explanation that's not meant to be examined,

Unknown Speaker (00:27:50.519)

because when you examine it or you try to sell it to someone

Unknown Speaker (00:27:52.519)

who doesn't already agree with your underlying narrative,

Unknown Speaker (00:27:54.519)

it sounds really stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:27:56.519)

And all Alex can do to deal with this is to pivot about yelling about undocumented immigrants voting.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:00.519)

He's spiraling so hard, he comes up with this.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:03.519)

People know you're wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:05.519)

The states with the illegals are getting more.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:08.519)

California just got six more congressional seats from the illegal aliens.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:12.519)

So that's not true at all.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:14.519)

After the 2020 census, for the first time in the 171 years that it's been a state,

Unknown Speaker (00:28:19.519)

California lost a congressional district.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:21.519)

It's projected that if current trends continue, including undocumented immigrant populations,

Unknown Speaker (00:28:26.519)

California is expected to lose four districts after the 2030 census.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:31.519)

Alex is just literally lying, making up that undocumented immigrants coming in

Unknown Speaker (00:28:35.519)

has gained California's six new congressional seats,

Unknown Speaker (00:28:38.519)

when in the reality it's the direct opposite.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:40.519)

Alex is a liar, and unless there's a competent moderator in this debate,

Unknown Speaker (00:28:43.519)

then he'll be allowed to lie like this to create the appearance that he's dominating the debate,

Unknown Speaker (00:28:47.519)

when in truth he's a yacked-out racist lying to support his white nationalist aspirations.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:52.519)

I think I might know what Alex is talking about here.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:55.519)

So in the 2018 midterm elections, Democrats in California flipped six House seats.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:00.519)

I was able to find a headline from the California report that says,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:03.519)

quote, Gil Cisneros win gives Democrats six new House seats in California.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:08.519)

Alex has been spinning this conspiracy in the debate that undocumented immigrants

Unknown Speaker (00:29:12.519)

are being brought in to raise populations to give blue states more House seats,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:16.519)

which is what he's saying in that clip.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:18.519)

The most likely thing that happened here is that Alex skimmed that headline, or won like it,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:22.519)

and his brain immediately filtered the words through his racist conspiracy theory filter,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:26.519)

and that's what became reality to him.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:28.519)

So when they flipped six seats, and the headline says Democrats six new House seats,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:34.519)

he imagines it, it's like, oh my god.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:36.519)

They just added six new House seats.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:38.519)

Right. It's nonsense.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:40.519)

And there's no competent moderation that would push back on this and be like,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:43.519)

what are you talking about?

Unknown Speaker (00:29:45.519)

I do appreciate that there is an etymology that you look for for his bullshit, too.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:51.519)

Not just where is this bullshit, but where does his mind spring forth the bullshit from?

Unknown Speaker (00:29:57.519)

It's so wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:59.519)

It's so wrong, but you're right.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:01.519)

You're so right, six new House seats, only reading headlines, Alex saw that, went boom, done.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:07.519)

It's so wrong, and it's a specific.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:10.519)

When you try to find that specific, it's like, does this number, the House, seats,

Unknown Speaker (00:30:16.519)

where do those things exist?

Unknown Speaker (00:30:18.519)

And the most likely scenario is that.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:21.519)

So funny.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:22.519)

Well, I mean, I get bored, so I gotta dig a little.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:27.519)

I understand, but it is so funny to look back and just be like,

Unknown Speaker (00:30:32.519)

ah, see, this headline said six new seats, and so spiraled into madness.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:38.519)

And now, six years later, Alex is repeating a fucking racist talking point on this debate because of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:46.519)

Here we are.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:47.519)

It's like someone stepped on a butterfly.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:50.519)

So much that, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:52.519)

So, Chris, oh, I'm sorry, Bed.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:55.519)

People really enjoyed that.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:57.519)

Who doesn't?

Unknown Speaker (00:30:58.519)

Shout out to everybody who enjoys Bed.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:00.519)

But also, I think some people were saying it should be Bread, but I've already committed to Bed.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:05.519)

Yeah, you can't do Bread.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:06.519)

So Bed, I will say, probably well, I think this is a good thing to do in this debate,

Unknown Speaker (00:31:14.519)

is to just go ahead and admit and deal with the fact that there were informants that were there on January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:21.519)

You really can't argue against the position.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:23.519)

No, they were there.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:24.519)

So then Alex just starts dancing around about how Twitter's gonna get you.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:28.519)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:29.519)

Do you guys think that there was federal involvement here?

Unknown Speaker (00:31:31.519)

Or if there was, what the extent of it was on January 6th?

Unknown Speaker (00:31:36.519)

I think that there were probably federal agents undercover.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:40.519)

Do I think that federal agents committed crimes and led people into the Capitol building?

Unknown Speaker (00:31:45.519)

Absolutely not.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:46.519)

And there hasn't been any case brought by any of these 700 convicts.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:52.519)

None of them brought that up in court.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:54.519)

Because they're being prosecuted in the District of Columbia.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:57.519)

Because there's no evidence of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:59.519)

There's absolutely no evidence of it.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:01.519)

They won't let them put defenses on.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:03.519)

Let me tell you something.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:04.519)

Let me tell you something.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:05.519)

They said Ray Epps was a hero and did nothing wrong.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:07.519)

Now they finally indicted him because they know it's a weak spot.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:10.519)

And their operation, they're only asking for six months.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:12.519)

Let me tell you, we're not playing clips for tit for tat here.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:16.519)

But everybody's gonna, I want everybody on X to get these statements and put all the clips of women putting onions in their eyes

Unknown Speaker (00:32:23.519)

and the cops fake arresting people and high-fiving them saying,

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I'm a federal agent. I just helped run the attack.

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They're gonna string all these videos out.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:31.519)

So here's the thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:33.519)

Like Brian said, there's probably some informants on the ground.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:36.519)

I think one of the Proud Boys, one of the ladies in the Proud Boys was an informant.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:40.519)

So she was on the ground.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:41.519)

She didn't go into the Capitol building, I don't believe.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:44.519)

The problem is with what Alex does is he pushes these conspiracy theories,

Unknown Speaker (00:32:48.519)

these ideas that illegal aliens were voting.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:50.519)

There's no evidence of that.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:52.519)

The illegal alien voting thing is what's happening is they're coming in and then they're being counted in the census,

Unknown Speaker (00:32:57.519)

which then adds more electoral votes.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:00.519)

It gives more congressional districts.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:02.519)

That's fair. That might be happening. I haven't received that.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:04.519)

They're in diamonds all over the country.

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They're in diamonds of illegals everywhere voting.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:07.519)

Got them again. Hit them hard. Hit them hard.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:09.519)

Got them again.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:11.519)

Like two people, maybe five.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:13.519)

A bunch of cities have passed laws where illegal aliens can vote.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:16.519)

No, they haven't.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:17.519)

Not in the federal elections.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:19.519)

Oh, the illegals are voting in elections, though?

Unknown Speaker (00:33:21.519)

Not in the federal ones.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:22.519)

I know that some cities try to have them voting in local matters.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:25.519)

I don't know how many of those are successful.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:26.519)

Illegal aliens shouldn't be voting, okay?

Unknown Speaker (00:33:28.519)

But they're not.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:29.519)

They're not voting in federal elections.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:31.519)

I don't know why you would care.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:32.519)

Why would you even care?

Unknown Speaker (00:33:33.519)

That's a conspiracy theory, Alex. Come on.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:35.519)

There are going to be 100 million views of you guys.

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X is going to eat you guys alive.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:40.519)

Ooh.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:41.519)

Oh, man.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:42.519)

Throughout this debate, Alex will not stop ruminating on future Twitter dunks on the Krasensteins and Destiny.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:47.519)

But you notice that he can't do any of that dunking himself.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:50.519)

No.

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He has the vibe of someone who's picking a fight and then stopping right before the punching starts,

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insisting that the other person's going to be real sorry when their big, muscly, imaginary friend shows up later.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:00.519)

It's pathetic and a very strong indication that Alex can't handle arguing any of the points he's yelling very passionately about

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and shouldn't be in this debate.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:08.519)

He has nothing to offer.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:09.519)

No.

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Except the bombast and spectacle.

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Yep.

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Destiny is right there about the non-citizen immigrant voting in local elections,

Unknown Speaker (00:34:18.519)

but I do wish he had some more of the details about that at the ready,

Unknown Speaker (00:34:22.519)

because you could push back on this a little bit more strongly and demonstrate how wrong Alex is.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:26.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:27.519)

It would be good to see Alex try to defend not letting permanent residents be allowed to vote for the school board

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in the district where their child goes to school.

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I'm sure he would just say, Twitter's going to get you, and move on,

Unknown Speaker (00:34:37.519)

because that seems to be where he's at at the moment.

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An important point that no one's picking up on in that clip is when Alex says that he knows the lawyers

Unknown Speaker (00:34:44.519)

who aren't being allowed to put on defenses that would prove that there's all these federal agents provocateur.

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He's talking about his own lawyer, Norm Patis, who's also a racist stand-up comedian

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and represents some of the Proud Boys, including Joe Biggs.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:56.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:57.519)

This is yet another conflict of interest that really should preclude Alex from participating in this debate.

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He's deeply and intimately involved with the side that planned and carried out the insurrection,

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so he has a very strong incentive to lie about things to make that side look better.

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That conflict of interest alone should make someone with the supposed credibility of Glenn Greenwald decline this invitation,

Unknown Speaker (00:35:16.519)

but oh well, Alex says this is going to get 100 million views on Twitter, so you can't turn down that kind of attention.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:21.519)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:22.519)

Incidentally, this entire debate is posted on YouTube on Destiny's channel,

Unknown Speaker (00:35:25.519)

which had about 850,000 views at the time of when I was preparing this episode.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:31.519)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:32.519)

Zero Hedge posted it on their YouTube channel, and it currently sits at 4,000 views.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.519)

Ooh.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:36.519)

Their Rumble channel is a little more popular, and that just got about 45,000 views there.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:41.519)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:42.519)

Alex broadcast of this on Twitter has a total of about 1 million views.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:45.519)

Sure.

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Live and after the fact.

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I think we're well below the 100 million estimate Alex is throwing around.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:51.519)

Eh.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:52.519)

Hope it was worth it for folks.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:53.519)

I don't-

Unknown Speaker (00:35:54.519)

Hope they got paid.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:55.519)

And I have a strong sense that they got paid, which we'll get to at the end of this.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:59.519)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.519)

I doubt, or I don't blame Destiny for not having a follow, knowing enough about-

Unknown Speaker (00:36:07.519)

It's a bit outside the scope of what you would be preparing.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:09.519)

If you're preparing for a debate about whether or not January 6th happened, you shouldn't

Unknown Speaker (00:36:13.519)

be like, oh, I gotta make sure that I know my do illegal aliens vote shit.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:19.519)

No, that's nuts.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:20.519)

Yeah, it's understandable.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:22.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:23.519)

He has enough of an awareness based on probably other conversations he's had around topics,

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including immigration and stuff.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:29.519)

Sure, sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:30.519)

But, yeah, it would be nice, but I understand why he doesn't have that information at the

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ready.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:35.519)

Yeah, no problems there.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:36.519)

It's a missed opportunity, but not a slight.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:39.519)

Yeah.

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So, Alex claims that he never thought that Mike Pence could determine the election, which

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is crazy.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:46.519)

Wow.

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I don't know why you care about illegals voting when you think Trump can just flip

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the whole election anyway.

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Who cares?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:51.519)

He can just ask Pence to throw it all out and do whatever.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:52.519)

I never said I thought Trump could flip the election.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:54.519)

Do you think it was okay when he asked Pence to do it?

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I already told you five times, I think that was a bad theory.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:58.519)

I didn't say it was a bad theory.

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Because I'm an election officer.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:00.519)

Do you think it was allowed?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:01.519)

Do you think it was an attempted coup?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:02.519)

Do you think he can ask the Vice President to unilaterally determine the outcome of the

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election?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:06.519)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:07.519)

Politics, politics.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:08.519)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:09.519)

Trump was exploring every option.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:10.519)

The main thing he wanted was a 10-day investigation.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:11.519)

No, Trump wanted Pence to throw out the election to declare him the winner.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:14.519)

Imagine if Trump would say like, I don't believe Joe Biden can be on the ballot.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:17.519)

Imagine if federal judges that are-

Unknown Speaker (00:37:19.519)

And that would go to court, and the courts can decide that.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:21.519)

What would Republicans be doing right now?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:23.519)

Biden hasn't said that.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:24.519)

What would you do?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:25.519)

Biden hasn't said that.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:26.519)

State's have.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:27.519)

Trump spent four years saying Obama should go on the ballot.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:30.519)

What do you want to say?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:31.519)

If Republicans were trying to take Joe Biden off the ballot right now, what would you say?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:34.519)

They are.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:35.519)

Let the Supreme Court decide.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:36.519)

Depends on how they're trying to do it.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.519)

Even this conservative Supreme Court, I'd say let them decide.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:41.519)

Let's bring Glenn Greenwald here.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:42.519)

Yeah, we should.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:43.519)

But Darren, you've been-

Unknown Speaker (00:37:44.519)

I'm floundering, let's bring in Greenwald.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:46.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:47.519)

So what's going on in that clip is them talking past each other.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:49.519)

Destiny is correctly saying that Trump and his team had a plan for Pence to reject the

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illegally selected electors, which is in effect overthrowing the election unilaterally.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:57.519)

However, Alex thinks his position is actually different.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:00.519)

So he's pretending to disagree with that plan.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.519)

In Alex's mind, what Pence was supposed to do is reject these electors, then the states

Unknown Speaker (00:38:06.519)

would send back Trump electors, which is what he thinks they were supposed to do to begin

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with, and then Trump would win the election.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:11.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:12.519)

There's no possible future in Alex's mind where the electors get sent back to the states

Unknown Speaker (00:38:15.519)

and the same electors end up getting sent back for certification.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:18.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:19.519)

If that happened, then there would need to be another very legal and very cool 10-day

Unknown Speaker (00:38:22.519)

investigation to make sure we get things right.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:24.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:25.519)

They're saying the same thing, but Alex is trying to make his position sound less authoritarian

Unknown Speaker (00:38:29.519)

and bad.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:30.519)

Because he's added fake nuance to his side, they can't really get to the rub, which is

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that Alex does believe that Pence was supposed to reject the results of the election, and

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that is why they were at the Capitol encouraging that to happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:42.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:43.519)

It's ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:44.519)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:45.519)

Alex has not disagreed with that legal theory.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:47.519)

I find something interesting.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:49.519)

I find it interesting why Alex and them don't just go, well, the courts are a joke, right?

Unknown Speaker (00:38:56.519)

Well, this issue does come up later, so maybe you should revisit those thoughts at that

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point.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:01.519)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:02.519)

Because that seems to me to be the obvious rebuttal to like, oh, let the courts decide.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:06.519)

The courts are a joke.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:07.519)

In our position, if our position is the election, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then the courts

Unknown Speaker (00:39:14.519)

are in on it, so who fucking cares?

Unknown Speaker (00:39:16.519)

Well, I mean, I think that that is an unexamined and unspoken assumption within Alex's argument,

Unknown Speaker (00:39:23.519)

and that is something that destiny tries to get to the core of a bit later in the debate

Unknown Speaker (00:39:29.519)

and basically get Alex to recognize that what he is calling for is the overthrow of the

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country.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:35.519)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:36.519)

And it doesn't go as well as you'd hope, but this does get explored a little bit, so you

Unknown Speaker (00:39:39.320)

may be satisfied by that when that comes up.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:41.519)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:42.519)

So now, you gotta jump legs first, head first, I don't know what we wanna do, maybe an elbow

Unknown Speaker (00:39:48.519)

drop into the pool.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:49.519)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.519)

But what we're jumping into is Ray Epps shit.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:52.519)

Jesus.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:53.519)

Because Darren-

Unknown Speaker (00:39:54.519)

I swear to God, I almost forgot again that we were talking about January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:59.519)

Well, we're not really going to be.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:01.519)

We're gonna be talking about Ray Epps for quite a while.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:03.519)

There we go.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:04.519)

What are you, Darren?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:05.519)

Darren, what's on your brain right now?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:06.519)

Isn't that trying to remove-

Unknown Speaker (00:40:07.519)

Looking at you thinking.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:08.519)

Well, I can attempt to answer the question about federal involvement because my reporting

Unknown Speaker (00:40:14.519)

or reporting at Revolver News is largely responsible for changing the national conversation in

Unknown Speaker (00:40:21.019)

that direction.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:22.019)

And notice they first threatened to sue you.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:23.019)

I'm gonna leave in a minute.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:24.019)

Take a piss.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:25.019)

They first threatened to sue you.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:26.019)

I need a drink.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:27.019)

I need a drink.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:28.019)

You've been vindicated.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:29.019)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:30.019)

Yeah, in fact, I have a video.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:31.019)

This is about Ray Epps.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:32.019)

You just mentioned, Alex.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.019)

It's clip number three and it's about 25 seconds long.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:34.860)

We're gonna play this and then, Darren, I wanna hear what you're about to say.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:38.019)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:39.019)

Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:43.019)

Into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:45.019)

What?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:46.019)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:47.019)

No.

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Peaceful.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:49.019)

Fed.

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Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:51.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:52.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:53.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:54.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:55.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:56.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:57.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:58.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:59.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:00.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:01.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:02.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:04.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:05.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:06.019)

Fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:07.019)

I thought Ray Epps didn't do anything because he said peacefully at the end, right?

Unknown Speaker (00:41:09.019)

We didn't move past him.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:10.019)

Well, no.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:11.019)

He said go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:13.019)

Peacefully.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:14.019)

Well, so what?

Unknown Speaker (00:41:15.019)

It's still illegal to go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:16.019)

I thought peacefully was the operative word.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:18.019)

Yeah, I thought peacefully made it all okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:20.019)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:21.019)

Going in is illegal.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:22.019)

Trump didn't say storm the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:24.019)

He didn't say go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:26.019)

He's gonna get six months in prison, so.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:28.019)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:29.019)

I mean, you guys wanna hear the argument for federal involvement or not?

Unknown Speaker (00:41:32.019)

Yeah, please.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:33.019)

Not really.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:34.019)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:35.019)

I wanna hear it.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:36.019)

There's a lot of dimensions to it.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:38.019)

We can start with the Ray Epps issue.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:39.019)

Already out.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:42.019)

Here's a guy, you saw that, that was only part of the clip.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:44.019)

There's much longer clips about Ray Epps.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:46.019)

That we can't show.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:47.019)

That you'll never see.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:48.019)

But here's a guy caught on camera as early as January 5th, repeatedly calling for people

Unknown Speaker (00:41:54.019)

to go into the Capitol.

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Darren calls to mind someone who's speaking like waving a pen in the air.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:01.019)

He has a weird tone to it that I feel it requires a flourish or else this tone just doesn't

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really work.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:07.619)

Yeah, I don't like him.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:08.619)

And he should be very fucking careful with his words about how he's reporting, how that

Unknown Speaker (00:42:13.420)

was responsible for the coverage of Ray Epps.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:16.219)

Epps may be getting probation for a few months now, but he's still suing Fox News for Tucker's

Unknown Speaker (00:42:21.699)

coverage of him that led to his family being terrorized.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:24.619)

Darren Beatty was a frequent guest with Tucker talking about Ray Epps conspiracies, and if

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he's here taking responsibility for this stuff, he might just talk himself into getting sued

Unknown Speaker (00:42:33.300)

too.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:34.300)

Darren says something interesting here, that Epps was the first person caught on video

Unknown Speaker (00:42:38.199)

saying that people should go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:40.219)

That's not true.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:41.219)

I'm not sure who the actual first person was, but way before Epps said any of that shit,

Unknown Speaker (00:42:46.219)

one of Alex's 4th Hour hosts, Matt Bracken, literally said that they should do that on

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January 6th.

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Here he is, on Alex's show, on December 31st.

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I actually remember this clip.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:56.500)

Here's a little clip of that.

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Folks, next week, we have a chance to change the course of history.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:04.260)

It's not going to be done by Senator Hawley by himself.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:10.659)

We can't wait for some white hat QAnon secret insiders going to fix it for us.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:19.699)

That's not going to happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:21.179)

All of that has been BS.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.739)

It's been meant to keep the sheep going in line to the slaughterhouse, nice and calm,

Unknown Speaker (00:43:30.300)

believing in some deus ex machina that was going to pull a rabbit out of the hat and

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save us.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:35.920)

It's not that we're not going to be saved by anybody above us.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:40.119)

We're going to only be saved by millions of Americans moving to Washington, occupying

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the entire area, if necessary, storming right into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:54.940)

We know the rules of engagement.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:57.219)

If you have enough people, you can push down any kind of a fence or a wall.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:03.940)

This was enough of a public conversation in these circles that it was being openly discussed

Unknown Speaker (00:44:10.420)

by one of Alex's co-hosts.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:13.820)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:14.820)

I don't think that it's so crazy... He's not the first person to be caught on tape

Unknown Speaker (00:44:19.380)

saying this.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:20.380)

He's the scapegoat that they chose.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:22.380)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:23.380)

What I find so fascinating about that clip is that I agree with everything that he said.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:26.739)

He's absolutely correct.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:28.420)

That's the first time I've ever said... Because he's right.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:32.579)

As far as the save us thing is nonsense, but if they want what they want, they want to

Unknown Speaker (00:44:38.139)

take over the fucking country.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:40.420)

Well, right.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:41.980)

If you want to do that, that's how you got to do it, but they don't want to... You know?

Unknown Speaker (00:44:46.900)

What you're saying is that he's honest and consistent in what his position is, and that's

Unknown Speaker (00:44:52.219)

because that was before January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:54.659)

You're not saying he's right and that that is what we should do.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:57.579)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:58.579)

No, no, no.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:59.579)

That's what he wants to take over... If you want to...

Unknown Speaker (00:45:02.099)

I just wanted to clarify.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:03.739)

In terms of like, let's get rid of America in this conversation.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:07.679)

He's descriptively right of like... That's how you throw a government.

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People above you aren't going to help you create your bizarre patriot fantasy necessarily.

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You're going to have to be the change you seek to have in the world.

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We're not going to vote an authoritarian takeover.

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No.

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We have to take over authoritarianly.

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The country will sort of get the ball rolling.

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Sure, sure, sure.

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Well, I mean, it's already on the way.

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Yeah.

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That was 2016.

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It's very clear if you read Ray Epp's testimony to the January 6th committee that he was talking

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about just going into the Capitol and having like a sit-in type protest there.

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He incorrectly believed that the Capitol was open to the public, which actually one of

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the representatives who's interviewing him points out that it would have been if it weren't

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for COVID most likely.

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He thought that staging a protest in the Capitol was an option because he thought it was open.

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He didn't say they should storm the Capitol, but Matt Bracken certainly did on Alex's show.

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So that's actually even more close to- Yeah, but I mean, if you're being honest

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about doing the thing, then you should do the sit-in even though it's illegal.

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The illegality is part of the protest.

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I agree.

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The sit-in.

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It's a nonviolent civil protest, you know?

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I agree with you, but committing the violence needed to get there in the circumstances that

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actually existed in January 6th make it more difficult.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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What you would want to do is create like a line around the barricade and make them forcibly

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remove you or something like that instead of violently pushing through assaulting officers

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and then do the peaceful sit-in inside the Capitol.

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But his point is, yeah, if we're going to make a protest... Protests aren't legal.

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The government doesn't like people protesting the government.

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Protests often aren't legal.

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That's why we have free speech zones.

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They often involve some sort of civil disobedience.

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Right, exactly.

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And that is a big part of it.

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So Darren lays out some pretty thin evidence here that he has for Ray Epps being a Fed,

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which also they go back and forth on a whole lot.

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The definition of like, what is he?

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Is he a Fed?

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Is he working for a unnamed third entity or something like that?

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It's very bizarre.

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Yeah.

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Here's a guy, you saw that.

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That was only part of the clip.

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There's much longer clips about Ray Epps, but here's a guy who's the only guy caught

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on camera as early as January 5th, repeatedly calling for people to go into the Capitol

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and prefacing his seemingly rehearsed remarks in each case saying, I'm probably going to

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go to jail for this.

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I'm probably going to go get arrested for this, need to go into the Capitol.

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The next day, he flew across the whole country, presumably to go hear Trump's speech.

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He skipped Trump's speech.

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Instead, he was a veritable Where's Waldo, everywhere on January 6th, directing people

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go into the Capitol.

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There's only one Waldo and he's notoriously difficult to find.

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Then amazingly, he's pre-positioned right at that initial decisive breach point on the

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west perimeter of the Capitol and he's whispering into somebody's ear just seconds before the

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bike racks are broken through.

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He texts his nephew, I orchestrated it on paper.

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Think about it.

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He's like a six, three former Marine who was wearing camo gear and a Trump hat.

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And he just happens to have had a leadership position in the oath keepers, the most demonized

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and heavily prosecuted, right?

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He doesn't use the most demonized and heavily prosecuted militia group associated with January

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6th.

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And the regime doesn't touch him.

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So this is about, I mean, you know, if you want more than this, anything deeper than

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this, I don't think you're going to get it.

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Yeah.

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Like Darren's supposed to be the guy who wrote the book on Ray Epps and he got this whole

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demonization campaign going by writing about him and then going on Tucker to talk shit

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about him.

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And yet this is pretty thin.

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This is not, this is all just kind of vibes and feelings.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:17.059)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:18.059)

So if I understand correctly, our evidence as it stands, he is six foot three.

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That will be repeated a couple of times.

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He is wearing camo.

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He's got a Trump hat on and he's a former Marine with a former position in a militia.

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And there's some out of context videos of him and a text that he sent to his nephew.

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Right, right, right.

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Now I would also say all of these things would be straightforward evidence for not being

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anything other than what he is.

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Especially that text message, but we'll get it to that when we get to it.

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Okay.

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So first off at the end there, Darren says that the government won't touch Epps, but

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he just got sentenced to six months probation.

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That isn't a problem for the conspiracy theorists though, because they'll just say that the

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government only did that because they made such a big deal out of how they weren't punishing

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Epps.

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So the government finally gave them some punishment to try and cover up him being a fed.

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It's circular.

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Once the narrative is set, any affirmative or negative decision that gets made is interpreted

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as proof of that narrative.

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It's gospel that Ray Epps is a fed provocateur.

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And part of the proof of that is that he wasn't prosecuted.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:18.099)

The fact that he has been prosecuted in no way shakes the narrative.

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It's just twisted into supporting it by fantasy writing stuff about it, like how the conspiracy

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pressure forced the government to charge Epps so people wouldn't think he's a fed.

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If they charge him, it's a coverup.

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If they don't charge him, it's proof that he's a fed and that he ran J6.

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No matter what, the narrative gets upheld because the narrative drives profit.

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The other points Darren makes here are dumb too, and if he cared at all, he could find

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explanations for them.

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For instance, Epps explained why he said that he might get arrested if they went to the

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Capitol the next day in that famous video of him for the night of the 5th.

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He testified that, and the larger video that Darren is referring to there clearly shows

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that Epps was out on the street around a bunch of agitators like Baked Alaska.

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Epps tried to de-escalate the situation, as he told the J6 committee-

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De-escalate the- de- de-elascalate the-

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It's not bad.

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So he told the J6 committee, quote, they were trying, there's only a few that were, by a

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few I mean five or six that were trying to incite violence with the police, trying to

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get other people involved in it.

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And I kind of recognized what he was doing, this Baked Alaska, he would try and incite

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something and then stand off and film it and call it news.

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I tried to get people not to engage in that.

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First off, he very accurately assessed Baked Alaska's business model.

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As for the possibility of getting arrested thing, he explained that by saying, quote,

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I don't know.

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It was the heat of the moment thing.

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I was trying to find some common ground with these people and change their minds.

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It shouldn't have been said, but I said it.

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It's pretty clear from his testimony that you can see what the thought process here

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is.

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He encountered lifelong shithead and scam guy Baked Alaska and others trying to whip

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people into a frenzy to get into a confrontation with police or some kind of violence that

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night.

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Baked Alaska obviously has a financial incentive to try to do that because that's prime content

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for him and he has no concern for the well-being of others.

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Epps tries to calm things down and said that they should go into the Capitol the next day

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because he thinks the Capitol is open to the public.

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He's saying maybe I'll get arrested as a way to make his proposal sound as exciting or

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threatening to the establishment as those agitators plans of trying to incite street

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violence.

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It was in a sense saying you may get arrested doing that tonight and I might get arrested

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doing this tomorrow, but at least my plan involves some productive action.

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It's misguided and he was wrong about the Capitol being open, but it's not too difficult

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to understand the thought process that a six foot three older guy might come up with.

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He's well positioned, in fact, probably the only person positioned to actually have an

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influence on these people.

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Not Baked Alaska.

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By being six foot three and wearing camo and being a former Marine.

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Right, right.

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It's understandable how that is something that he could say that isn't like I'm going

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to go fucking break everything.

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Right.

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No, no, no.

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It makes sense, yeah.

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Next, Darren says that Epps flew across the country to see Trump's speech, but then he

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skipped it and that's not entirely true.

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Darren and his son made the trip mostly to be at the rally, but also because they wanted

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to visit Eppomattox Manor, a plot of land that apparently includes some family history,

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including a place called Epps Island.

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It was partially a trip that would pass on the family history to the next generation.

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Epps told the committee, quote, we're proud of our heritage.

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My family hasn't always been on the right side of history.

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Some of them were.

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Some of them weren't.

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We have a lot to live up to, I mean, and that's what we've tried to teach our children, and

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it's a trip we plan to take in the future for our grandchildren that we all go and show

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off this great heritage that we have.

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All right.

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We need to release the Epps Island logs.

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Right.

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I want to know who is there.

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All the people who came to America through Epps Island.

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So that was one part of the trip, but the rally on the 6th was definitely the biggest

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part of it.

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Epps got to the site about 6 or 7 that morning and stayed to see all the speakers up to Trump.

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He saw a little bit of Trump's speech and then, quote, there was a group that started

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running towards the Capitol.

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They were moving quite fast, so I just thought, you know what, I want to be in the front.

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I'll get up there.

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Part of the reason he showed up so early is that he liked to be at the front, so this

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is somewhat in character.

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He explained that he likes to get in front, so he's able to see where all the vehicles

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are at, to be able to look out for possible explosives.

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It's a paranoid thought, but one that he probably shared with a lot of the J6 attendees.

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If Epps's actions in leaving before Trump's speech had finished, even though he had flown

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across the country to be there, if that somehow indicates that he's a Fed, then thousands

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of people are Feds.

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Alex and Owen Schroyer are Feds.

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It's a meaningless piece of evidence, and I think that it's easy to understand why you

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would skip Trump's speech.

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He's just going to ramble and talk about how great he is a bunch.

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I was there early at the stage for the Daft Punk live tour.

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Looking for bombs?

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No, I just really wanted to see the concert.

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Is the Pyramid of Light one?

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Not a Fed.

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Just to throw that out there.

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I was famously up front and center for the Wu-Tang Clan concert in Columbia, Missouri.

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It was great.

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I bet it was.

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I bet it really was.

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Famously got to slap Ghostface's medallion.

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Felt pretty cool.

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Yeah, that is pretty cool.

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So Darren says that he's a Where's Waldo at the Capitol.

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This is a comical portrayal, as if Epps was everywhere.

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If the level of moving around he did was somehow suspicious, then everyone at the Capitol,

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including and especially Alex himself, is super suspicious.

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Darren says he tells people to go into the Capitol, which he didn't do on the 6th.

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He gave people some directions to the Capitol, but then that part is true.

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There's a video of him from before the rally giving some people directions, because, quote,

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it was pretty common knowledge that everyone was going to go to the Capitol.

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I was just trying to help out.

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Yeah, you're going to take a left on blah.

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Everyone knew that.

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It was common knowledge that that was the end point.

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So Darren says that Epps is, quote, pre-positioned at the initial breach point, which is kind

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of sneaky language.

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What's the difference between being pre-positioned and that just happening to be where you are?

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He ended up at that barricade, because that's where the group he broke off from the rally

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led to.

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Until he got to that barricade, he thought they were going to be allowed into the Capitol

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because it would be open to the public.

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That mentality shifted, and he realized that that wasn't going to be the case.

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There's a video of him at the barricade saying, quote, when we go in, leave this here, likely

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referring to some kind of a weapon a fellow rally was carrying, but we don't actually

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know for sure.

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Epps testified that he doesn't remember saying that, because his mentality shifted when he

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got to the barricade and realized they weren't going to just be let into the building, which

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is a little curious, but I can see there being a benign explanation for all that that doesn't

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involve him being a fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:30.699)

It's a leap to jump from that kind of like, that's weird, to, oh, I mean, definitely he's

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a Barakatur fed.

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Yeah, I'm going to need a badge.

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Or just anything.

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Anything.

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Anything would help.

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Anything concrete and substantial.

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Maybe like a employee of the month sticker.

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That'd be good.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:49.500)

Yeah.

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Darren's next point is that Epps whispers in someone's ear just seconds before the bike

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racks are broken through.

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That is true, and both Epps and the person who he whispered to have gone on record and

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explained that.

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I'm Waldo.

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That is it.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:01.460)

Yep.

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So this other person, Ryan Samsel, had already been shaking the bike racks before they made

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up the barricade.

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The video that's used to attack Epps excludes some context, but it explains why Epps whispered

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to him that he shouldn't attack the cops.

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It's not what this is about.

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That's what he whispered to him to try and calm him down.

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Both him and Samsel have said that's what was communicated.

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And if being around Ryan Samsel is such a suspicious thing, there are pictures from

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January 6th where he's hanging out with his arm around Joe Biggs.

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In fact, Samsel told the FBI that Biggs had pushed him to fight the police at the barricade,

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and there's a video of them interacting just before he started shaking the bike racks.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:37.619)

Sure.

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If Samsel's telling the truth, then a possible interpretation would be that Alex's former

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employee Joe Biggs told Samsel to go fight with the police and break down that barrier,

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which he started trying to do, at which point Ray Epps stopped in and tried to calm him

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down.

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I'm not sure what happened exactly, but I have more familiarity with Joe Biggs' character,

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which makes me think that it's more likely that Ray Epps isn't a fed provocateur.

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I'm not sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:57:59.980)

I mean, there's no here here.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:01.659)

Yeah.

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I'm confused.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:03.659)

You know, there's a part of me that thinks they were trying to protect some people by

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making Epps the scapegoat.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:12.219)

You mean the Ray Wing media figures?

Unknown Speaker (00:58:13.619)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:14.619)

I think it was largely because the Dominion-type narratives and that kind of election stealing

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stuff was sizzling, and so I think it was an exciting way.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:25.980)

And I think there's probably also a piece of it that you're correct about, which is

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trying to deflect blame, but I don't think it's just specific people.

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I think it's as a whole for the event itself, because they don't want to take responsibility

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for wanting the thing that you're correctly assessing that they want.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:44.300)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:45.300)

And if you want to do that, then you throw one of the big ones to the wolves, you know?

Unknown Speaker (00:58:51.860)

You throw Joe Biggs as a fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:54.139)

Joe Biggs is now a fed.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:55.820)

You know, that kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:57.460)

And because he's in jail for a long time, that helps.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:00.260)

But there's some of that that already happens with Enrique Tarrio, because he had it passed

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as an informant.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:04.940)

Sure, but I mean, but you've already got the Epps by the time we figure out Enrico is...

Unknown Speaker (00:59:11.179)

Not necessarily.

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An informant.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:13.179)

Not necessarily.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:14.179)

There's already an awareness that he was informant for that.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:16.139)

Oh, sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:17.139)

I just mean, if you're going to pin it, don't do it on the guy who's kind of anonymous.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:25.539)

Throw one of the big guys to the wolves, and then you're not going to get sued, you're

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not going to have all this shit, you're not going to do the whole thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:31.699)

Here's where I disagree with you.

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And I think it's more believable.

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It definitely could be more believable.

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But making it a random person allows you to fully craft your own narrative and characterize

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it however you want.

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Something like Joe Biggs, you're trying to brand him as a fed provocateur or something

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like that.

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There's a lot of stuff you've got to write around.

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There's a lot of awareness of him as a character and a personality inside these right-wing

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spaces already.

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Sure.

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And so you kind of are a little bit boxed in to a corner.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:01.260)

Yeah, but see, that's part of why I feel like the... I mean, I don't know why we're talking

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about this.

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In my head, I'm like, okay, here's how I would get to do what I wanted, which is unfairly

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malign a human being, and also not get sued by Fox News, and it's like, what am I doing?

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I don't need to give people advice about this.

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Yeah, I think everybody thinks that they're immune from being sued.

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That's kind of what it is.

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I was like, okay, well, if you're in this scenario, then you have to kind of play ball

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within the rules of your situation, and it's like, they don't think like that.

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They just don't think like that.

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They just move.

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Well, I think the narrative and the need for narrative is stronger than the worry about

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being sued, probably, in a lot of cases.

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And I think that generally speaking, the audience for this right-wing media shit is very much

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not wanting to accept that they were engaged in something that was attempting to overthrow

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an election.

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Yeah.

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And so it's so enticing to have somebody to, but it was him.

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He did it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it allows you to emotionally disconnect from your intentions.

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Yeah, we should definitely no longer consider us separate from apes.

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That would be a terrible idea.

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We have overlap.

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Yep.

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So Epps did text his nephew, and he did say that he had quote, orchestrated it.

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It's important to remember though, that that was at 2.12 PM that day.

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The riot was far from over, and honestly, most of the shit hadn't even happened at that

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point.

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Actually, Babbitt isn't shot until 2.44.

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So this is just before the Senate adjourns.

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Sure.

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Epps was there, so he didn't know what was going on.

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And even then, a lot of the worst stuff hadn't even happened yet.

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Saying that this text is him saying he orchestrated it means that, if you're saying that it means

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that he did all of this, that's nuts, because at that point he had no idea what it was going

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to turn into.

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Yeah.

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The timestamp of that text is something that folks like Darren often ignore.

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Epps explained this text to the committee, quote, I just meant that I got, you have to

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understand our relationship, uncle, nephew.

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We hunt together.

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We fun at each other.

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We do that kind of stuff.

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What I meant by orchestrate, I helped people get there.

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At that point, I didn't know that they were breaking into the Capitol.

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I didn't know that windows had been broken.

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I didn't know that anyone is at the Capitol.

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If I answered him at 2.12, I was on my way back to the hotel room.

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He hadn't seen the news yet at this point.

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He didn't have a full picture of what was going on, so he probably didn't think things

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got as out of hand as it did, and he's comfortable joking around with his nephew, bragging about

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how he got people there.

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You know, like, hey, were you a part of it?

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I did that shit.

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Yeah, it is interesting, his story, because it seems like he's one of the few people who

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is not subsumed into the mob.

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He seems like a guy who's watching the mob, whereas so many other people were just part

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of the mob.

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And some of that, I mean, who knows exactly, you have to try and make assumptions, I guess,

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about someone's mental state.

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Sure, sure.

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But I could very easily see, based on the answers that he gave to the January 6th committee,

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you could assess that, like, things changed for him when that barricade was there, he's

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like, I gotta get out of here, I don't want to be a part of this.

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Oh no, I'm not part of the mob.

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A second aspect of it is that one of the main reasons that he wanted to go along to DC was

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because he was going with his son, and he wanted to look after him.

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And his son and him got separated, and so when shit kicked off, there's a very good

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chance that he was concerned about the well-being and whereabouts of his son.

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So that could have also been a part of the not getting caught up in mob mentality.

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Have you ever been part of a mob?

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I almost got trampled by the mob at that Wu-Tang concert.

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Ironically, actually true.

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But it wasn't a mob, it was the mob that was trampling people at the Wu-Tang concert.

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The Italian Mafia was a, yeah.

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It was a mess.

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Yeah.

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No, I, you know, it's not exactly the mob, but definitely when I went to a Cubs playoff

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game, it was just maybe the season after they won the World Series, or after that.

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17, yeah.

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So it was, Bobby Budds had season tickets, and he brought me along to one of the games.

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And after, towards the end of the game, and after, when everybody's saying, go Cubs, go,

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like I felt like a part of the whole.

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We weren't mobbing anything, but I did get a feeling of like, if we all now marched somewhere,

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I might go.

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It is a real feeling, and it is such a thing where it's like, you don't know how powerful

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it is until you're already doing something with a lot of other people.

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I was singing Go Cubs Go.

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Exactly.

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And I hate that song.

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When have you ever saw Go Cubs Go?

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I'm very on record as not liking that song.

Unknown Speaker (01:04:45.139)

No, but in the moment, all of a sudden, you're halfway through Go Cubs Go before you go,

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wait, am I even still singing?

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Your individuality, it's not erased, but it becomes part of the whole.

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And that is a very bizarre experience.

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Yeah.

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And dangerous as we can say.

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It can be.

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Or it can be wonderful.

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Or it can be truly wonderful.

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Yeah.

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Euphoric.

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One of the fun things about being humans.

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That razor's edge.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So Darren says that Epps had a leadership position in the Oath Keepers, but that was

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like in 2009.

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It was early days for the group, and actually, here is Epps' answer for why he left the group

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a few years after he had joined.

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Those dudes went crazy.

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Yeah.

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Quote, Stuart wanted to, there were some things going on in Washington and Portland.

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I think it was Portland.

Unknown Speaker (01:05:30.340)

Yeah, it was Portland.

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I think that's when Antifa had first come out, and we were seeing a lot of things.

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They were burning things and doing different things on the news, and he thought it would

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be wise if we were to go there and try to direct them, get in with them and direct them

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to do things other ways.

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I didn't agree with that, so we kind of split ways.

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He left because Stuart Rhodes wanted to try and co-opt Antifa in Portland, most likely

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in relation to the Occupy Portland protest in 2011, and then Epps disagreed with that.

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Yeah.

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I'm not certain if that's the Portland protest he's talking about, but it would match up

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timeline-wise, and it matches with the tactics that folks in the extreme right wing used

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with the Occupy protest, where they tried to infiltrate and co-opt people to their side

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using things like shared opposition to the big banks to Trojan horse their bigoted social

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politics.

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Yep.

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There's no case here with Epps.

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There's no sense that he's bringing up.

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There's just nothing here except for kind of a feeling, and maybe it's my vibe that

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this is weird.

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There's these little things.

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Maybe I'm a little desperate to feel like he's weird, and I'm willing to cling to that

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in defiance of God knows what.

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Yeah, and he's portraying things in the least generous light possible.

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Darren's exaggerating them, but it's just kind of a pile of trivia.

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Yeah.

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It is fascinating listening to this specific thing, especially after being way too into

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the traitors right now.

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Right.

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There is so much of-

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He's trying to get the Epps at the round table.

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I mean, it's like when you listen to the round table people talk and just throw out something

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that is just patently either untrue or absurd, and then other people just start going like,

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you know what?

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I think you might be right, and then it just... It is insane.

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It is insane to look at people do that.

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There is kind of a similarity there too, and that Darren's trying to, at the round table,

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put the finger towards Ray Epps, and other people are jumping on board because they don't

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want people to think that they're the traitor, and they get voted out, so they have an incentive

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to dog pile, and that is kind of what's going on with Epps.

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It is interesting that now I feel like all of the shows I watch are just variations on

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the prisoner's dilemma and with physical challenges.

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That's it.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, Darren has some more evidence about Ray Epps, and I'm still not convinced.

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I'm going to go back to he was wearing camo.

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He was considered to be so egregious he was one of the first 20 people added to the FBI's

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most wanted list about January 6th.

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He was prominently featured in the New York Times' ominously titled Day of Rage.

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Of all the clips the New York Times could have found and chosen, they chose Ray Epps

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to represent their thesis that this was a preplanned insurrection to storm the Capitol.

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And then, when the discussion of federal involvement came in to be, one of our major pieces at

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Revolver News, literally the next day is when the FBI quietly removed him from their list.

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And all of a sudden, he went from FBI's most wanted and featured in the New York Times'

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Day of Rage to New York Times does a fully dedicated puff piece on him.

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Sixty Minutes does a sympathy segment on him.

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He's the only January 6th participant that Adam Kinzinger, who's never met a Trump supporter,

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doesn't want to see rotting in jail for 50 years, that Adam Kinzinger will defend more

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aggressively than Epps' own lawyers.

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And now, almost three years after, the government finally says, OK, we're going to hit you with

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a wrist slap misdemeanor, as though people are so simple-minded to think, well, if the

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argument hasn't been indicted, therefore he's a fed.

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If we indict him now, even if it's a misdemeanor, even three years after, no matter what the

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circumstances, this constitutes a refutation and totally wipes away the mountains of suspicious

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evidence surrounding the character of Ray Epps.

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The double bluff.

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Yeah, I was about to say, are you telling me that they know what they did is not going

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to convince you, and yet your motivation that you have ascribed to them is that they're

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doing this to convince you specifically?

Unknown Speaker (01:09:41.979)

Well, it's because so much of the argument in the beginning and shit about Ray Epps was

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that he hadn't been charged.

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So now that he has and he has been convicted, you need to deal with that.

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So the way you deal with that is be like, haha, it's a cover-up.

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That's basically what I was saying.

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It's pretending that your conspiracies are directing law enforcement policy, and that

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seems a little bit much.

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Seems like a leap I'm not going to follow.

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Not only is the TV talking to me, I'm writing the show as it goes along.

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And laws.

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Yeah.

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So Darren should be really careful.

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That lawsuit is still active, and Epps has been very clear about how the spreading of

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these smears about him has led to his family being terrorized, so there's no excuse for

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Darren to not understand the consequences of his actions.

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Ray Epps is not a public figure, so there's a lot less wiggle room for defamation defenses

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here.

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There's no evidence that Epps' behavior being so egregious is what got him put on the FBI's

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wanted list.

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Sure.

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There's a very clearly, it could have been just that he was one of the people they had

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the most questions about and who they had clear face pictures of.

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I like the quote that the FBI quietly took him off their website.

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Right.

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What is the, okay, one, there's only one way to loudly take somebody off your most wanted

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list.

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Go to New Orleans.

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Get a marching band.

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And two, what have they ever not quietly taken?

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I didn't even know that there were, like the list doesn't say the same, right?

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Every time they change the list without catching somebody, I didn't know about it.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:10.899)

Well, it's somewhat interesting because what he's talking about is the capital offenders

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wanted list.

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Sure.

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And so Ray Epps was the 16th person, photograph 16 on that list.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:22.699)

Sure.

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Sure.

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And so- Number one was Saddam.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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He's the ace.

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As a lot of people were arrested, their pictures stayed up there and then it said arrested

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under them.

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Mm.

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And so it was- That's fun.

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Ray Epps was maybe the first person who just disappeared.

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Who didn't, okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:39.859)

Gotcha.

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And didn't end up with arrested under him.

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Okay.

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And they say that he's the only person, but that's absolutely not true.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That would be bad news.

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It may have been true originally.

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It may have been true in as much as he was the first person, but he was not the last

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because there's people who've just been removed from it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So the Day of Rage thing that Darren's talking about, about the New York Times, it's a 40

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minute film they put out back in 2011.

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Mm.

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Or 2021.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Holy shit.

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Yeah.

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I'm still writing June on my check.

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It's a huge stretch to say that Epps was, quote, prominently featured in that documentary.

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It includes the clip of him talking to Baked Alaska from the night of the 5th and the clip

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of him telling people how to get to the Capitol building, but all that's in the first seven

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minutes of the film.

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The stuff after that that doesn't include Epps is way worse, and I would say that the

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Proud Boys like Biggs and Rufio Pan Man are far more prominently featured.

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The FBI did have Epps on their most wanted list as it relates to January 6th, but they

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most likely removed him because as soon as someone made him aware of that, he contacted

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the FBI, then got a lawyer who began communicating with the FBI, making very clear that Epps

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was willing to cooperate.

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He was no longer most wanted.

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He'd been found and they were in dialogue.

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I don't think this is suspicious unless you're desperately looking for something to be suspicious

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about.

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I love this conspiracy theory because to me it's like watching the movie John Wick, right?

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And then having a cop be like, you know what, I bet it was that gas station attendant at

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the very beginning of the movie.

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Let's focus on that guy.

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He's the one who did it.

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I really wish I could join you in this.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:06.020)

I've never seen any of those movies.

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Oh, man.

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I don't get the reference.

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The first John Wick, unimpeachable.

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That's what they say.

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Yep.

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He's unimpeachable and he's playing games with the timeline here in order to paint a

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dishonest picture.

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So I'm going to replay this part where he gives what appears to be a timeline.

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One of our major pieces at Revolver News, literally the next day is when the FBI quietly

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removed him from their list and all of a sudden he went from FBI's most wanted and featured

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in the New York Times' Day of Rage to New York Times does a fully dedicated puff piece

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on him.

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60 Minutes does a sympathy segment on him.

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So if you're tracking his thought there, the order of events is this.

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The FBI has Epps on the most wanted list and the New York Times includes him in the Day

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of Rage documentary.

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Then Darren's dumb website talks about him and Epps is quietly removed from the wanted

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list and times they do a puff piece on him.

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This is a timeline constructed for the purpose of building a fraudulent narrative because

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it doesn't reflect chronological time.

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No, that's why you make it this timeline, not the real chronological time.

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The idea is that the man wanted to use him as a patsy knowing that he was a fed and they

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could sort it out all secretly, but then Darren got the scoop so they had to change tracks.

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Because Darren had them all figured out, they removed Epps from the wanted list and then

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the Times does this puff piece to paint him as a woe is me figure.

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But here's the real timeline.

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The Day of Rage documentary came out on June 30th, 2021.

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Epps was removed from the FBI wanted list in, I believe, probably sometime between the

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night of June 30th and July 1st, 2021.

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So in there, most likely because his lawyer was communicating with him.

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Darren covered Epps for the first time in an article titled, Who is Ray Epps?

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That came out on October 25th, 2021.

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And years later, well, I mean, Ray Epps sued Fox News.

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There's been these soft puff pieces about how he was labeled a fed that made his life

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and his family's life go to hell.

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But I think there was another article before that, but it was still about how he was being

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branded, this fed and how it was fucking his life up.

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Can you write a puff piece about a bunch of strangers torturing your family?

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I mean, you can puff a little, but I don't know if it's a puff piece.

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So in the real world, this is a coherent timeline of these events and it makes sense how all

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this flows.

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Darren needs to tweak the timeline because his narrative relies on a fraudulent cause

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and effect relationship between these events.

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He needs his reporting to have been the cause of the FBI taking him off the watch list and

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the wanted list because they were scared that he was on their tracks.

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It's all a charade.

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And if Ray Epps is the best example of a fed provocateur that everyone keeps going back

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to and they're spending so much time about here, this guy is supposed to also be the

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guy who knows the most.

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He's the Ray Epps expert.

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I'm not impressed by this.

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This doesn't stand up.

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I feel, and I could be wrong about this.

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I feel like Darren Beatty doesn't get paid enough to do this.

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You know what I mean?

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I think he works cheap.

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When you hear a politician gets bribed for like a hundred grand, you're like, that is

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cheap.

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That's too cheap.

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I feel like it should be more expensive, right?

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I feel like Darren Beatty is selling his soul cheap.

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I think he gets in where he fits in and I don't think he commands a price.

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I don't know.

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I feel like if a lateral move salary wise is like insurance agent, just be an insurance

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agent, man.

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No, you don't get to go on Tucker then.

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Yeah, well that's fair.

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So now that Darren has spoken his piece about, you know, all this Ray Epps stuff, Destiny

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jumps in and tries to explain some of this stuff and I've noticed that they're able to

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talk a bit and that's because Alex went to go pee.

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Ah, that makes sense.

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Alex is a bit on a time out here having a drink.

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Not yelling at anybody.

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But this stuff, if you look at his story from start to finish, it is incredibly obvious.

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The guy is a boomer.

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The guy was a huge Trump supporter.

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No, he wasn't.

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He used to be part of the Oath Keepers a while before.

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That's what he testified to under oath.

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He used to be part of the Oath Keepers years earlier than he left.

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I think it was the Arizona chapter.

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Ray Epps was the head of the Arizona chapter.

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That's fine.

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Ray Epps went to the march.

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You said he skipped the speech.

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Tons of people were listening to the speech on cell phones and other things and broadcasting

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to other people.

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Ray Epps was outside the speech.

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He was on video because you posted in your article with him literally telling people,

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let's go.

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We're going, we're marching to the Capitol.

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That was before the speech.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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But he's out to the ellipsoids.

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He's telling people in advance of the speech, we need to go to the Capitol because somehow

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he got it in his mind that everything would end up at the Capitol.

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I'm pretty sure he's doing it in his, as Trump is making his speech.

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Everybody had it in their mind.

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No.

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That's when he's directing people.

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He began before the speech began.

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There are timestamps on the video.

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Then you can go back and watch it on your, the revolver story is up there.

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For every single thing that you assert about him, that he's in video, whispering into a

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guy's ear, you say it on the rest of your article, all he's doing on the day of when

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the protesting is getting violent is going up and down telling people, don't fight with

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the cops.

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Don't fight with the cops.

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The cops are on our side.

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That's what he's saying the entire time.

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The idea that he said that the entire day, but the one guy who's ear that he whispered

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into that unfortunately don't have, you know, audio capture of that he and Samuel testified

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to as he said, hey, the cops are on our side or the cops aren't enemies.

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They both say something to that effect.

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And that seems to synergize with everything else he said on that day.

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You go on to say that that guy immediately after was the one that broke down the fence.

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No, he's not.

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You can see like 15 people right next to him that are all trying to break down the fence.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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The guy goes in eventually.

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But if we truly believe that this guy is a federal agent or is working to instigate the

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riot, we've laid out absolutely nothing supporting that.

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Just some video footage of another boomer being at the rally that was, that was there.

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If you want to say that, why was he removed from the FBI list?

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I mean, why was he removing the rails?

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Like all of the information is out there.

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He said that after his video was identified and people on X started to identify him and

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then because all of his online stuff is incredibly easy to find, he started to get phone calls.

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He started to get harassed.

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He started to get threats.

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So he called the FBI as soon as this was brought to his attention and he told the FBI, Hey,

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this was me and here I am.

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And this is what's happening.

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And the FBI took him off the list.

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No.

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Your timeline is wrong.

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He called the FBI when he saw himself in the videos.

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Wrong.

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Yeah.

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A friend told him about it and he's that.

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That's what he testified.

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He called the FBI very shortly after January six because of his picture being on the most

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wanted list.

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He wasn't taken off the most wanted list until the middle part of 2021.

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There were multiple months span between him calling the FBI in the first instance and

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being quietly removed.

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That's not true.

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Yes, it is.

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That's not.

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I can tell you why it's not true.

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Okay.

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Because what you did, cause I read your article is you looked at two archived versions of

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the website and you didn't have a 12 month archive.

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For some reason, you assumed that the recent snapshot that you took at 2021, you think

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that that was the first time the page has been changed.

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That was just the first time the page has been archived with the, I don't think the

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FBI has made a statement on it, but what Epps testified to was that he either saw a video

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of himself or a friend saw a video of himself or a friend saw him on the list where people

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were, and then people were making videos.

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And then he called the FBI and he said, Hey, I need to talk to you.

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And this is what's going on.

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If he was a fed, why would they remove him from the list when everybody's clearly looking

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at the list?

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He was one of the only people removed.

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Why would senators be defending him so vigilantly?

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Why wouldn't that's a great question.

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Why was he quietly removed right when the question of federal involvement became a major

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part of the national conversation.

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And let me just, I don't want to get lost in these weeds.

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I just want to know you don't do you.

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Oh man.

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So weird.

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He doesn't want to get lost in the weeds of examining the ways that his theory doesn't

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stand up to scrutiny.

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Totally unfamiliar behavior.

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Listen, I don't want to get into the details of why I'm lying to you.

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All right.

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All right.

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Just the flimsy ass argument.

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Yeah.

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Also the question lingers unanswered.

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If Epps was a fed, why would they remove him from the most wanted list?

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If he's a fed provocateur willing to engage in actions meant to incite people to storm

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the Capitol, you got to think the guy's not above taking a bribe to accept a couple months

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jail sentence to maintain that cover.

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Yeah, totally.

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If he is a fed, the last thing they would do is number one, put them on the list in

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the first place.

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Number two, remove him from that list and make things very suspicious.

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Yeah.

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Also destiny is totally right about pretty much everything about Epps, but he makes a

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critical error here, which is also kind of Darren's fault.

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Destiny says that Darren has these two snapshots in his revolve or revolver article that are

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from the wayback machine of the FBI's wanted list.

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And that they don't depict when a page has been changed just shows when it was archived.

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Sure.

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The two snapshots that Darren has here are from February 16th, 2021 and July 1st, 2021.

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The first one shows Epps included as photograph 16 and the latter does not include a photograph

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16 at all jumping from 15 to 17.

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Okay.

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Because Darren has this wide gulf between the two snapshots, there's no reason to believe

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that the page wasn't updated somewhere between those two dates.

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And he's just assuming that it was on July 1st.

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Sure.

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It could be any time in there and that's what destiny is.

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Hasn't proven anything about that.

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Yeah.

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This is sloppy work, which destiny is calling out, but I don't know if destiny pursued the

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second step here, which is to check for himself.

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The FBI's web pages are archived constantly.

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So there's a version of this particular site from every multiple archive versions of it

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every day.

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Every four hours.

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Yeah.

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And the reality is that Epps was on there on June 30th and not on July 1st.

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Darren's provided screenshots that don't show this, but it is the case that the change to

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the FBI site appears to have happened that day.

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Okay.

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So he supports Ray Epps calling on that day and then changing it?

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No.

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No.

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He did call really like in January.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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He called on like January 8th or something like that.

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Okay.

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So this doesn't prove anything that Ray Epps is a fed.

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It could easily just be that Epps's lawyer began the process of cooperation with the

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FBI in mid to late January and it took a couple of months of back and forth or even administrative

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processes to get to the point where he came off that wanted list.

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Yeah, sure.

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That makes sense.

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Epps's lawyer is correct, but he's challenging Darren on a point of fact that he seems to

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be incorrect about.

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This isn't a great position to be in and I understand how the snapshots in Darren's article

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could lead to that conclusion, but that wasn't because Darren was wrong.

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He just did a bad job in the article.

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Right, right, right, right.

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Also, you notice how much easier it is for people to talk about sentences and shit when

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Alex isn't there.

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Ah, yeah.

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They can actually get some information and it's not just a hostile, Twitter's gonna talk

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at you tomorrow.

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This is an interesting case study in you and me in a lot of ways because there's a part

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of you that is excited whenever the Destiny and Darren Beatty get into it.

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It's a change of pace.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Whereas me, I'm just sitting here going, stop this.

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What are you doing?

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What are you doing?

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No, I mean, I yearn for the Alex drunkenly yelling, but it is at least like a promise

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of the premise of a debate that people are going to have some actual back and forth.

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Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

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And so at least there's a little meat on the bone.

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Lip service.

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And then now there's just a shitload of dessert.

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Let's get back to drinking.

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Dessert that's laced, it's like a cake that's made with cognac, too much cognac.

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So Darren and the left on the panel, Destiny and Bed, they find some agreement seemingly

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on apps.

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So you're saying he said we need to go into the Capitol peacefully.

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And you point out correctly that in many instances caught on video, he's engaged in what you

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could call de-escalation of the crowd and he's not urging people to violence.

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That's all correct.

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I never said he's urging people to violence.

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He was absolutely a provocateur.

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And his mission as stated and as implemented and as orchestrated by his own verbatim text

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was he wanted people to go into the Capitol peacefully.

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That might be the case.

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Wait, that might be the case.

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And if that's all you're saying, there's no disagreeing.

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It's not all.

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No, that's everything.

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That's everything.

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Nobody here is saying that he didn't say that and he didn't want people to do that.

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But the claim is that there's some sort of...

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That's illegal.

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That's fine.

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He could be charged for it.

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Do you think anybody here care if he gets charged for that crime?

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The issue is you're saying that he was doing it under the direction of a federal agency.

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That the 6'3 guy that looks like he's dying of type 2 diabetes and arthritis is somehow

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some intimidating marine captain that's sending people into the Capitol.

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That was your claim that you've provided zero evidence for and you don't in either of the

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articles that you write about him.

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We got Glenn Beck on the horn.

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Oh.

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Whoa, Glenn was gone.

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Yeah, and he also has accidentally said Glenn Beck.

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That's fun.

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That's fun.

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So this is a critical moment to understand here.

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Darren is laying out undeniably true things about Epps.

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He said that people should go into the Capitol peacefully and that's caught on video.

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You can't deny that.

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Right.

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You agree to that, which of course you have to.

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But the real argument Darren is making is what Destiny lays out there, that Epps was

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doing all this under the auspices of being a federal agent provocateur.

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Right.

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This is a rhetorical strategy known as the Mott and Bailey.

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It's named after an old timey castle structure where there would be a part that was strong

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and easy to defend, the Mott, and an external part that was harder to defend, the Bailey.

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The rhetorical strategy mirrors this structure where somebody has a position that's very

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easy to defend, in this case that Ray Epps said that he wanted people to go into the

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Capitol, and a much more difficult case to defend, in this case that Ray Epps was an

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agent provocateur working for the government or some other organization to entrap Trump

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supporters.

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In terms of the castles, when the Bailey came under attack, people would retreat to the

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Mott because it was fortified and would stand up to attack better, and this is what you

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see a lot of folks do in argumentation.

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The idea that Ray Epps is a fed is a very difficult position to defend.

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So in order to support his position, Darren retreats to the more easy to defend position

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that Epps said that he wanted people to go into the Capitol.

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It doesn't prove his point, but it forces agreement between himself and the person he's

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arguing with.

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And if people aren't paying attention to this, it could be a pretty effective strategy.

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So my question to these people then would be, if the government is doing all this undercover

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fed infiltration stuff, why don't you join them?

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That sounds way more fun.

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That sounds way more fun than you're hanging out in a little militia thing, and you clearly

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want to be part of the movie aspect of this stuff.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:21.539)

So why are you not joining the government and becoming one of those people?

Unknown Speaker (01:27:25.140)

Well, I think there's two points.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:27.380)

One, if you're talking about people like Darren or these folks who are in the media and stuff,

Unknown Speaker (01:27:33.859)

this shit pays a lot better.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:35.380)

Yeah, yeah, no, not them for sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:37.579)

If you're talking about the rank and file folks, joining the government isn't an option

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for them because this is all make believe.

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But joining the team that is the sleuths on the case trying to get all these fed provocateurs

Unknown Speaker (01:27:49.100)

and shit, that is doable.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:50.840)

You can do that.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:51.840)

Sure, I just feel like that.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:53.100)

It's the only job opening that there is.

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Being on the side of the government, there's nothing there.

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If you really believe that there's the chance to go and be fed undercover, if you really

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believe fed undercover agents are everywhere all the time inciting people, become one of

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them.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:16.220)

That'd be fun.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:17.220)

But you can't.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:18.220)

You can't.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:19.220)

There's nothing there.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:20.220)

What are you going to do?

Unknown Speaker (01:28:21.220)

Enlist?

Unknown Speaker (01:28:22.220)

I think so, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:23.220)

I think that's what you do.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:24.420)

Go find a cop and be like, I want to be an agent provocateur.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:27.020)

Listen, okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:28.020)

What do you do?

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Here's what you do.

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You start at the mail room like everybody does.

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Sure.

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So Darren's trapped because he has no other real evidence that Epps is a fed.

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He has this recontextualized circumstantial nonsense suppressed on it like this.

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He's in trouble.

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Destiny and Bed have agreed with the easy position to defend, but they still don't agree

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with the more difficult one.

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So the next place this argument should go is Darren being forced to defend why he thinks

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Epps is a fed beyond all the stuff that he's already laid out.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:55.100)

And he can't.

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Camo.

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I'm Waldo.

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He's tall.

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And it's weird that this is where Ian jumps in to try and change the subject and throw

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things to Glenn.

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That almost seems like him being able to tell that Darren was in trouble.

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And if that went on any longer, he'd be forced to say something like, it's just my opinion.

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And that's basically like, I lose.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:15.739)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:16.739)

In terms of Ian, we talked a little bit about the instability of the things that he's, the

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ideas that he's putting forth, but his instincts for when to jump in and in terms of a rhetorical

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argument.

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I don't know if, I mean, obviously this would be me leaping to a conclusion I can't defend,

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but I do know that he has an earpiece in or something because he's getting towards the

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end of this.

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He says that the producers are telling him that they need to go to the questions.

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So he is getting at least some kind of a production note.

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And I don't think it's impossible that someone's like, jump in, jump in or a bit, but I don't,

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I don't know that that's the case for me to say like, that's what's happening.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:01.500)

No, no, no, no, no, it'd be the same thing as Ian.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:04.300)

It would be a little conspiracy-ish of me, but I don't think it's outside the realm of

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possible.

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Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:10.140)

I mean, based upon the combination of what we know of Ian working with Tim Pool and some

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of the things he said, it sounds plausible that there's somebody in his ear.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:21.779)

I'll throw that out there.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:22.779)

There is definitely someone in his ear, but with their saying that stuff, I have no idea.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:26.859)

But it does, it does start to add up the number of times that he seems to jump in, particularly

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when Darren or Alex is particularly out of sorts.

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So Glenn comes in and he has some, he has some thoughts on informants.

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Sure.

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Glenn has been very patient.

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What's so funny?

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What's happened, dude?

Unknown Speaker (01:30:47.500)

Well, I just, I mean, I only heard the last four minutes of the conversation, but I'm

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still always amazed by, I really don't understand the argument because the FBI and the US security

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state before January 6 was saying that they regard the greatest threat to national security

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not as being ISIS or Al-Qaeda or Hamas or Hezbollah or China or any other, any other

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foreign threat.

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They regard the greatest threat as being right-wing domestic extremists on whom, in whom that

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was included on many lists, the oath keepers, the three percenters, and all of the people

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in the groups that they said orchestrated January 6.

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Is the argument that you think that the FBI was not monitoring and infiltrating those

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groups because there's actually a ton of evidence that the FBI had their hooks in all three

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of those groups and not only have their hooks in them, but on January 6 had informants on

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the ground who were pretending to be Trump supporters who were talking in real time to

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the FBI about everything that was happening.

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So I just want to understand what the claim is, is the claim that the FBI was not involved

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in the groups that organized January 6 and didn't have informants on that day?

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Is that the claim?

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No, it is not.

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They weren't instigating.

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That's your claim.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:00.739)

It came out that the vice president of the oath keepers was an FBI informant.

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The Proud Boys had at least three and as many as eight, and the New York Times itself reported

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that there were FBI informants and the Proud Boys who were inside the Capitol texting their

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handlers as the event unfolded.

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So Glenn's point is fair enough, but it still doesn't prove anything.

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You could have a hundred informants inside a giant organization that is like the Proud

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Boys and still not have anyone who is in the upper levels of the group who are in the private

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messaging groups that were planning for the 6th.

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And it is true that Greg McWhirter, the VP of the Oath Keepers, was an informant, but

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we don't know what he informed about or the length of his existence in this role.

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It's possible that he gave warnings that went unheeded, but we don't know that.

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It's not clear.

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So what is clear is that there are records of Stuart Rhodes and other oath keepers who

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aren't informants actively planning what they were going to do.

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Another thing that is clear is that for over a decade on Alex's show, Stuart has been begging

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for the chance to try to overthrow the government and he didn't need anyone to trick him into

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doing any of that shit.

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We've heard him say so many times, I want to violently overthrow the government.

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I want to be made head of my own military.

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I mean it's literally the one thing that I genuinely respect about him is that he said

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exactly what he wanted.

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He was more blunt than a lot of folks.

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But here again, you have Glenn performing an attempt at the same type of sleight of

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hand that BD used earlier.

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He has an undeniable position, which is that there were informants inside the Oath Keepers

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and Proud Boys, but the real argument that he's making is that the informants are actually

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the ones who caused January 6th, which is unsupported.

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When the unsupported argument Glenn is making gets challenged, he retreats to the safety

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of the undisputable argument that there were informants, and that's a lot of the shell

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game that's going on in terms of these arguments and you can't get anywhere with it.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:50.939)

Here's one thing that I truly love that just popped into my head.

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There are FBI agents, there's two FBI agents, buddies probably go out drinking, one of them

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an Oath Keepers informant, the other one a Proud Boys informant, and the Proud Boys

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guy just must have been like, man, I had to do the fucking cereal thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:09.819)

I had to do all this shit, and the Oath Keepers guy was just like, I look cooler than you.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:15.300)

Which one of them is Johnny Utah?

Unknown Speaker (01:34:17.380)

Right?

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Like it is, can you imagine-

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Isn't that his name?

Unknown Speaker (01:34:21.060)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:22.060)

Point Break?

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Point Break?

Unknown Speaker (01:34:24.060)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:25.060)

Okay.

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I went through the FBI, I'm in the whole thing, I'm a special agent, all right, we're going

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to hit you while you name cereals.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:33.659)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:34.659)

I think they might weed out fads by people who are too good at naming cereals.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:43.619)

Wait a second.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:47.220)

This dude's gotten into Malt-O-Meal?

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Come on, man.

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And if you say something like Weedabix, they're like, do you work for the Crown?

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Hobnobs?

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That's not cereal.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:03.640)

So Bed tries to get to the point here, and ask Darren if Epps was a fed.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:09.380)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:10.380)

Good question.

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Because then you gotta get to the heart of the matter.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:13.380)

I'm just confused.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:14.380)

So you're saying that Ray Epps was actually a federal agent who was indicted, who pled

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guilty and is likely going to get six months in prison?

Unknown Speaker (01:35:24.699)

Is that your argument?

Unknown Speaker (01:35:25.699)

Well, the New York Times protected-

Unknown Speaker (01:35:26.699)

Well, wait, wait, wait, about Epps, so a couple of things there.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:31.500)

You don't find it a little bit strange-

Unknown Speaker (01:35:33.699)

No, no, wait, wait, I'll get to it, I promise you, I promise you I'll address that.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:37.619)

But let's just consider-

Unknown Speaker (01:35:39.340)

The reason Jordan laughed is because we both twirled apparently.

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Uninvited both of us simultaneously.

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You just needed to.

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His voice just does it.

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You just needed to.

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The context.

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The context in the immediate aftermath of January 6, by the words of Steve Sherwin,

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who was in charge of the prosecution, their posture was one of quote, unquote, shock and

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awe.

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They were going after everyone.

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They were hitting them very hard.

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Now again, think about central casting.

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On paper, Ray Epps, he's the 6'3", former Marine in camouflage gear with a Trump hat.

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The only guy caught on video as early as the 5th telling people to go into the Capitol,

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who's there on the 6th directing people to the Capitol, who's right there prepositioned

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at that initial breach phase.

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And this-

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Helping ram signs.

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Helping ram signs.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:31.220)

Exactly.

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And he happens to be a former head of the Oath Keepers.

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And you're not telling me it's bizarre-

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So-

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Wait a second.

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You're not telling me it's at least a little bit bizarre that of all January 6 participants,

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he's the only one who gets a New York Times puff piece.

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He's the only one who gets a 60 Minutes sympathy segment.

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He's the only one that Adam Kinzinger will defend.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:53.579)

So are you saying that New York Times is now working with the feds, working with Ray Epps

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to-

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100%.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:58.859)

Yes.

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No, as a matter of fact-

Unknown Speaker (01:37:00.859)

Wait, wait.

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Why do you think-

Unknown Speaker (01:37:02.859)

Yeah, what did you think he was going to say?

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Why did they say there were WMDs in Iraq?

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Because they're told to.

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So going back-

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No, no, wait.

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Why did they write those articles?

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Why don't you say that part?

Unknown Speaker (01:37:09.859)

Why did they write those articles?

Unknown Speaker (01:37:10.859)

And wait, so I want to address your question directly.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:11.859)

You're saying if he were an asset, and by the way, I'm not definitive in the sense that,

Unknown Speaker (01:37:15.420)

oh, I don't think he was working directly for the FBI.

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I don't even know if he was directly working for the federal government.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:21.300)

He was an asset.

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He was acting on behalf of a third party.

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He was not an authentic actor on that day.

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That I will say was a great deal-

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You mentioned-

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But wait a second.

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You mentioned-

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Let me say one thing.

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I've been gone for 10 minutes.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:35.060)

Yeah, drink it.

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So here, Bed is asking a direct question that cuts to the core of the undefended argument

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that Beatty is making.

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In response, he does what you'd expect.

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He retreats to the safer territory of all of these talking points that don't actually

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support his argument, but you can't really dispute.

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Like that he was there.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:49.380)

Oh, you're saying he wasn't 6'3"?

Unknown Speaker (01:37:50.979)

Exactly.

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He lays out all this shit that doesn't amount to anything in terms of his argument, then

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he says, don't you think it's weird that he's the one who gets a New York Times puff piece?

Unknown Speaker (01:37:58.859)

And destiny is pretty right on there.

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Why did he get that puff piece?

Unknown Speaker (01:38:02.739)

So there's two possible answers.

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One is because you guys chose him to be special by demonizing him.

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And the other that Darren definitely doesn't want to touch is that some of those puff pieces

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happened because they made him a giant scapegoat for January 6th, and it's led to his family

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being terrorized.

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So he sued Fox News.

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That's why a lot of the media attention that exists recently has been there.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:24.939)

They're giving him some sort of special treatment, and maybe some other January 6th participants

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don't get that same treatment.

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He's getting special treatment because Darren chose to make him special with a propaganda

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attack.

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But because this whole thing has been challenged and Darren's entire shtick boils down to don't

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you think it's weird level statements, he's forced to moderate his stance to now being

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that he doesn't know if he's a federal informant for the government, but just that he was an

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agent of some unknown, unnamed third party.

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This argument that Darren is making amounts to less than nothing, and he's said that federal

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stuff already, he's retreating because he's stuck.

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Not because he actually is thinking like, oh no, my whole entire consistent position

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has been that it's just some random I don't know who third party.

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I love the idea of some random third party being like, okay, so what can I think it is?

Unknown Speaker (01:39:20.340)

What?

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The Milwaukee Bucks.

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I mean, first off, what kind of organization chooses this specific group of people to do

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this specific type of action on?

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Right?

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Specter.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:34.899)

Like, exactly.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:35.899)

It's not like ISIS, ISIS isn't infiltrating fucking the MAGA movement.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:45.079)

Who's your big bad if it's not the government?

Unknown Speaker (01:39:48.539)

I think probably Dr. Doom.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:51.619)

Okay, I'll take that one.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:53.579)

Also, I get what you're saying, like the, oh, why is the biggest threat?

Unknown Speaker (01:39:59.300)

Why isn't it China or anything?

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There's oceans, there's oceans.

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Do you know why they're the biggest threat?

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They're right next door.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:05.260)

Right, and it's not like the government doesn't acknowledge the ways in which geopolitically

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China is in somewhat of an adversarial posture with us, the economic difficulties that result

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between the two countries, but in terms of domestic extremism, the country of China is

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not necessarily-

Unknown Speaker (01:40:26.899)

What, are they going to send a boat?

Unknown Speaker (01:40:30.859)

Right, or yeah, it's a little much.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:34.460)

There's a Chinese warship off the coast of San Francisco.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:37.859)

Oh shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:38.859)

What?

Unknown Speaker (01:40:39.859)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:40.859)

Well, no, I mean like, you know, when COVID was happening, Mike Adams said that it was

Unknown Speaker (01:40:44.460)

part of preparing for a Chinese land invasion.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:47.260)

Oh my God.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:48.260)

So like, I mean, that definitely was on info wars for a while.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:52.060)

Seriously, somebody try a land invasion just so we don't have to deal with anybody ever

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thinking it makes any sense ever again.

Unknown Speaker (01:40:58.979)

I don't think it's going to happen.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:01.739)

So it's a little frustrating here because Destiny's response of like, why did they get

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those puff pieces?

Unknown Speaker (01:41:07.239)

It's exactly the right next thing to say, and you see how it's pretty easily deflected.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:10.859)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Anyone watching this who likes Alex and Darren, they wouldn't even have registered as that

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is something to check into.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:17.439)

So Alex is back and they deal with the issue of like, why did he get prosecuted if he's

Unknown Speaker (01:41:23.220)

a, if he's a fed?

Unknown Speaker (01:41:24.500)

I'll take this one.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:25.500)

Hey Darren, sit down nerd.

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Let me say one thing, I've been gone for 10 minutes.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:30.340)

It's a victory, they went from saying he's an angel of CNN, MSNBC, New York times.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:35.420)

He's perfectly now, but they've been forced to indict him.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:39.460)

Alex, quick thing on that.

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They, the, the, uh, criminal complaint acknowledges that he engaged in quote unquote felonious

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behavior, but among the mitigating factors that they cite is, Oh, this poor guy was a

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victim of all these conspiracy theories.

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It's pretty remarkable.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:57.140)

He was though.

Unknown Speaker (01:41:58.140)

He was, I want to address that for any other, why were people writing?

Unknown Speaker (01:42:06.300)

I want to just quickly answer the question about your question.

Unknown Speaker (01:42:10.460)

Basically if he was an asset, why did they go after his own, their own asset?

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Why would they indict their own asset?

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That happens all the time.

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In fact, that's almost the norm that ultimately when they have undercover people, they'll

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indict them.

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Just when the assets become, are you helping now?

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They indict them.

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So this is just a load of fun storytelling that doesn't really relate to the circumstances

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and reality at all.

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Darren's still dodging the question.

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Destiny's posing of why the New York times and others are writing pieces about Ray Epps,

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which is obviously because he's suing Fox news for defamation.

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A large part of which is Tucker's coverage of apps, most of which featured Darren Beatty

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as a guest.

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Yeah.

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Probably doesn't want to talk about that.

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We're referring, returning to the question of if he's an asset, then why did they indict

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him?

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Uh, you know, you by saying, uh, people who do, people do that all the time.

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You know, if that's your rebuttal, that isn't actually helping us get any further

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towards making a case.

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The people making the claim have the responsibility of backing it up.

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And in this case, it's Alex and Darren clearly saying that Epps is a fed, or I guess now

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that he's an agent of a mysterious third party.

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Saying they indict agents all the time is a dodge to Ben's question, but it doesn't

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get anywhere closer to showing that Epps is or isn't an agent, but it kind of feels like

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it does.

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Also if it's a person who's an agent of a third party, what relationship to the government?

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Why would the government give them special treatment?

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Who knows?

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I don't know.

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I mean, are they, are they contractors?

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Maybe.

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Yeah.

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So this is, this is like what a lot of this debate boils down to, particularly for Darren.

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It's a lot of stuff that means nothing and doesn't have a point, but kind of feels like

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it does.

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Yeah.

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A lot of feelings of like, isn't it weird?

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I, what I find interesting is that they, they counted as a win when they make irrelevant

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information equal, if that makes sense.

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You know, like, like whenever Darren Beatty can be like, ha ha, we're both making irrelevant

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points.

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Right.

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Beatty counts that as a win.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean like if you have, um, you know, Bed saying, uh, Hey, why did they indict him

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if he's a fed?

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And Darren's argument back is that happens all the time.

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Who cares?

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That only proves that it is possible that he could be indicted and still be a fed.

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It doesn't prove that he is, which gets us nowhere.

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We already knew it was possible.

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So both of you in the hypothetical realm of possibilities.

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Great.

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Congratulations.

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So both of you have said a neutral nonstatement, but Beatty takes that as having implied that

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he's the victor.

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Yeah, of course.

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Bananas.

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Yeah.

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Because unfair.

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Well, it's not that they both said nothing because Bed is at least asking a question.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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That would in theory lead to more information being discussed.

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Theoretically.

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Beatty treats it as a win because he's dodged that.

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Sure.

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He treats it as a win.

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Right.

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But I mean, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So anyway, uh, Bed brings up the lawsuit because basically it's like you aren't answering the

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question about why there's all this coverage, so let's just bring it up.

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Yeah.

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You're saying that Ray Epps is a federal agent.

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Well, I didn't say that.

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I said he was acting on behalf of a third party, an inauthentic actor on January 6th.

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Even though there's no evidence of this and then you're saying he's going, he's turning

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around and he's suing Fox News for defamation, which is going to open up all, all sorts of

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cans of worms with discovery that he's going to have to provide legally in front of a court.

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You think that if he was a federal agent, he'd be suing Fox News for death.

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I know they control the jurisdiction, but he did say, sorry, what text message that

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day during and I orchestrated the, the, the, the attack.

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You think he's going to sue for defamation?

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He was bragging to his nephew that asked him if he was there and he said, I orchestrated

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that.

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I orchestrated his nephew to his nephew.

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Why would a federal agent text such incriminating evidence?

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Who's nephew?

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Why wasn't he indicted before we made him the centerpiece hearings?

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He was all over the news to do it.

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Thanks to Tucker Carlson and professor Darren Beatty's work.

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Why do you trust Tucker Carlson when he said he lied to you?

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Tucker Carlson said Sidney Powell was crazy.

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Tucker Carlson left Fox News because he didn't believe the election fraud claims that he

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was being forced to push on TV because of Trump.

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Why would you trust Tucker Carlson of all people?

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Tucker early on thought it was wrong.

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Now he says he was wrong about that.

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Now he says he thinks the election's done.

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Oh, crazy.

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Let me answer your question about the discovery.

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When his lawsuit goes away, let me answer that.

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The answer's changed.

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Yeah, listen, whether you're right or wrong, you have a right to question the election.

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No one wants to take that right from you.

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So Bed clearly just realized that they were never going to acknowledge the lawsuit unless

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the issue was forced.

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So kudos to him for just doing it.

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Great answer by Alex.

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Just saying they know they control the jurisdiction and then moving on to Epps texting his nephew,

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which we already covered in this debate more than once.

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Also we see here the potential downside of getting involved on the side of a blustery

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drunk Alex.

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He's very explicitly saying that a concerted effort by Darren and Tucker along with Alex

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made Ray Epps the centerpiece of the right wing narratives about January 6th.

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If the people who are suing Fox News have any interest in adding defendants, Alex is

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going to have given them a nice road map.

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Alex is in the clear since he and Infowars are in bankruptcy, but Darren and Revolver

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have a fair amount to gain by not being sued here.

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If I were Darren, I wouldn't be thrilled.

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Destiny has a good point with Tucker, but I would just go the full mile on this one

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and bring up how Tucker has flat out admitted that he lies when he needs to.

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I mean, I lie.

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If I'm really cornered or something, I lie.

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I really try not to.

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I try never to lie on TV.

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I just don't, you know, I don't like lying.

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I certainly do it, you know, out of weakness or whatever.

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Yeah.

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So if you lie because it's too scary or dangerous to your image to admit that you're wrong about

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something, you're not someone people should take too seriously.

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It's a testament of how much a disaster our public information space truly is that he

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could say that openly on Dave Rubin's show like two years ago, and it made zero difference

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to his standing.

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I lie for money.

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See, everybody does that.

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And boy, do I hate doing it.

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It sucks.

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It sucks to be a multimillionaire for lying to you.

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God, it is rough to be forced to lie.

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And when I almost faced consequences for it, I didn't.

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Yeah, I think I think that, man, that guy doesn't seem cool.

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He doesn't seem buff board, does not seem cool.

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So someone else who's not cool is Glenn Greenwald.

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And he pops in here to condescend a little more about the FBI.

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Great.

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The whole context for this conversation is, again, I mean, you just keep going back to

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it because it's so easy to see.

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People have this idea of the FBI, like, oh, they don't do this sort of thing.

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Earlier, I think it was Ed who said, wait, why would The New York Times run a puppies?

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Do you think they're working with the FBI?

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Like that idea to him is so I didn't say that.

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I didn't say that.

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It was me.

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No.

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History of the FBI.

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It's not the same.

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No idea that the FBI throughout the entire war on terror did this over and over.

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They would target and entrap all sorts of vulnerable Muslims to engage in plots that

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the FBI created in order to create a narrative that the FBI was needed because there was

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a much bigger threat of Islamic terrorism than there actually was.

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The FBI has been infiltrating and then using provocateurs to encourage groups to commit

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crimes so that the FBI can gain more power, can spread this narrative, more power, incredibly

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naive, are only paying attention to the news since 2016 and thinking Donald Trump is the

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only not to understand that this is what the FBI has been doing for decades.

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And so to have this like naive attitude, like, oh, it was The New York Times working with

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the FBI.

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That is what the media in this country has been doing.

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You have no evidence of it.

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You're making it.

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You're just making theories up.

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I just add a nice little colorful detail there.

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The author of the Ray Epps puff piece that asked none of the questions that would get

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to the core of his involvement there.

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Total puff piece.

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You can read it yourself.

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Total puff piece.

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The author of that, his previous work includes the CIA authorized account of the Sinaloa

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cartel.

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Oh, case closed then.

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Yeah.

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I mean, OK.

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There you go.

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So Glenn's correct that there are a bunch of entrapment plots that the FBI has carried

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out in the aftermath of 9-11 and in other circumstances throughout their history.

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That's true.

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Where he gets into trouble, however, is that that doesn't mean that everything the FBI

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does is some kind of an elaborate plot.

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There is that.

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Proving or demonstrating that something could be an FBI plot because they've done it some

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plots in the past is not the same thing that proving something is.

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All that anyone on Glenn, Darren or Alex's side is really able to substantially demonstrate

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is that it's possible that their conspiracy theories are true.

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They can't prove them and they have no proof to offer, but they could be true for all sorts

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of reasons.

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The FBI has pulled entrapment plots in the past, even though I thought Darren and Alex

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are trying to avoid saying the federal government because they were scared to answer that question

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earlier.

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So they're not.

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Here's the thing, though.

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Destiny and Ben showed up for the debate, which is essentially means that we've already

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established that they think that this is something that can be debated, which is to say it's

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possible that Alex's side is right.

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They disagree, but they wouldn't debate something that they don't think is even in the realm

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of being possible because someone who believes something that is not in the realm of possibilities

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by definition, irrational and beyond argument.

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The right wing side here needs to cut the bullshit and actually provide some actual

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meat, as opposed to this it could happen level speculation.

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It's all dismissible by saying it could happen, but you haven't given me any reason to think

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it did happen.

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That's what their argument lives or dies by, proving that it did happen, not that it could.

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And that's just an essential failure that will not be patched up.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I would say that if you were going to bring up the FBI's track record as evidence they're

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framing conservative lunatics, barking up the wrong government agency for that one.

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FBI famous, anti, or pro-conservative- We'll get into a little bit of an academic

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analysis of that down the road here as the thing goes on.

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But yeah, there's a bit of a trend they have.

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So Alex- J. Edgar Hoover was at J6, just to be clear.

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He was there.

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So Alex was drinking while they talked about Ray Epps the first time, and so Alex decides

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to get into Ray Epps.

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Great!

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My God, the man is like a chicken with his head cut off for three days, including the

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day of the event, running around saying, go in the Capitol, he's ramming signs into people.

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He testifies, I orchestrated this attack.

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And then there was a Jan 6th committee, they asked about this text message and said, I

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did that.

Unknown Speaker (01:52:33.579)

Yeah, the text, he didn't testify that he orchestrated it.

Unknown Speaker (01:52:34.979)

No, he testified to the Jan 6th committee.

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He sent the message to his nephew.

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No, he testified.

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He testified.

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That he orchestrated it to the Jan 6th committee?

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You keep interrupting me because you can't- You're not telling the truth.

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I'm Michael George, slamming on you, and what's going to happen is, everybody's going to get

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this clip.

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He testified to the Jan 6th committee, they said, is this your text message?

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Yes.

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He said yes.

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I told my nephew, I orchestrated it.

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Now, stop.

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Let me finish my point.

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Okay.

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Hammer, thank you for being honest with him.

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You keep asking.

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That was unnecessary.

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That wasn't necessary.

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He said, I orchestrated it.

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I applaud it.

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You keep acting like my- He testified to his nephew that he said that.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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In a text message.

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There you go.

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And he did orchestrate it.

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He did testify.

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He did.

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So the point is, he's acting like my victory is a failure.

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Wait, where's the evidence that he orchestrated it?

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He said it.

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He said it.

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Open and shut, baby.

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I touch my friends' things all the time that are embellishments.

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You guys, let me finish my point.

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They're all over every major corporate channel saying this poor little baby.

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They're saying he was a fed or an operative or a provocateur for some NGO.

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He didn't do anything wrong.

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And when it got so obvious, they finally indicted him with a slap on the wrist.

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And then you're sitting here saying, he didn't testify.

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He just testified.

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Whoa.

Unknown Speaker (01:53:49.739)

No, he said he didn't testify that he orchestrated it.

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He testified that he sent that text to his nephew.

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That he orchestrated it.

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No, then they asked him.

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Huh?

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Alex, then they asked him if he actually orchestrated it.

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What was his answer?

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In the transcript, he said, hm?

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It wasn't that.

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He orchestrated it.

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Who cares?

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So if I sent somebody a message saying, oh, bank is robbed, I robbed the bank.

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Have you ever embellished a text message to anybody that you know, like you?

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Maybe not.

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Maybe not you.

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Maybe.

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Maybe.

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Actually, I'm kind of an understanding kind of guy.

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So Alex is kind of too drunk and has no comprehension skills, so he can't even really track the things

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that are being said to him.

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I was going to say, yeah.

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He was saying, or at least speaking in a way designed to heavily imply that Ray Epps testified

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at the J6 committee that he orchestrated the events that day.

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Destiny and Bed are trying desperately to clarify that Epps testified that he sent that

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text to his nephew, but not that he orchestrated the riots.

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Right.

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Alex is either unable or unwilling to recognize the distinction, and thus we get this exchange

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where both parties think they scored a dunk.

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But Alex brings up how honest everything must be in texts, and it'd be a real shame if someone

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were to be able to review his text messages.

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Shame that's not possible.

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Yeah.

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I imagine that there was nobody on this planet who has a shit ton of Alex's text messages.

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So if we assume that Alex is right, and people never talk shit and just say things in their

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text messages.

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Right.

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I wonder what this exchange with Eddie Bravo tells us.

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Interesting.

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So Eddie tells him, quote, it's awesome you're having an open mind about this realm we live

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in.

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So much scientific evidence we are not on a ball shooting through space.

Unknown Speaker (01:55:22.079)

If you want a debate on your show, three scientists versus three of my top flat earthers, I can

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set it up.

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It would break the internet.

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It would.

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Alex replies, yes!

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Exclamation point.

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Let's do it!

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Exclamation point.

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The Hubble video blew me away.

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Oh my God.

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Eddie replies, quote, Hubble fake as fuck.

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All from the airplane Sophia.

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Alex replies, quote, yes it's proven.

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A little bit later, Eddie says, quote, zero proof the sun is 93 million miles away.

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It's super close.

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Maybe 3,000 miles up.

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If the ISS is supposedly 250 miles up, then the sun being 3,000 miles up makes sense.

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Alex replies, quote, yes.

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Who knows?

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What we do know is they're working for somebody really evil.

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Wait, I'm sorry?

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Eddie says, quote, look into the fake moon mission now with your new eyes.

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If you do that debate on your show to protect your credibility, make it clear you're not

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a flat earther, but you're open to hearing it out.

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Alex says, quote, yes, I want to.

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They're hiding something.

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A couple weeks later, Alex sent a flat earther video to Mike Adams and said, quote, how do

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you disprove this?

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I know you can.

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I know the flat earth stuff is bull.

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I know you can.

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I know the flat earth stuff is bull.

Unknown Speaker (01:56:31.199)

It's just spreading.

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Oh my God.

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I guess sometimes we're not really honest in text messages and we kind of just talk

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shit to bond with and impress the people in our lives, like Ray Epps did with his nephew

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and Alex did with Eddie Bravo.

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So cut the shit.

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I do think that there is actually something deeply true and large within Alex texting

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something like, how do you disprove this?

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I know you can.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:56:57.399)

You know, like that yearning of just like, I am aware of what it is I am supposed to

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do.

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And I can't.

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I cannot do it.

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I can't do this.

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And I'm scared a little bit that Eddie's right.

Unknown Speaker (01:57:12.079)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:57:13.079)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:57:14.079)

No, this, this true like weakness in a man of like, I don't fundamentally understand

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anything.

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How do you disprove flat earth?

Unknown Speaker (01:57:24.359)

Do this for me so I can ignore Eddie's request to have a flat earth debate.

Unknown Speaker (01:57:30.039)

Yep.

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So a bed tries to take things a little bit of a different direction and asks what charges

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should Ray Epps have gotten if what you want to be is true?

Unknown Speaker (01:57:41.199)

You guys are indefensible.

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My question is what should Ray Epps have been charged with?

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What, what law did he break that instead of what he was charged with, I think was obstructing

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the proceeding.

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Let me respond.

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Let me respond.

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He was not charged with that.

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That's the interesting thing.

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He was not charged with obstruction of an official proceeding, which would have been

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a very easy charge and a fairly, so wait, wait, let me answer this comprehensively.

Unknown Speaker (01:58:07.420)

So first of all, it's extremely strange given how conspicuous and egregious and concentrated

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his behavior was that he somehow was able to avoid the obstruction of official proceeding

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charge.

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Number one.

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Number two, there are even more serious charges they could have given him.

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In fact, in the series of videos that we put out, there's one specific exchange he had

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with another guy.

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He said, when we go in, leave this here, we don't want to get shot.

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So when we go in, leave this here, he's referring to that individual's bear spray.

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That individual ends up going into the Capitol committing violence and doing a whole bunch

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of other things.

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And this is a bizarre case because this guy who is super egregious has to this day not

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fully been charged.

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His case hasn't even gone to a district judge yet.

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So let me give you a sense.

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Let me give you a sense.

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Because when we're evaluating these things, we have to compare them to standards applied

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to others.

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Oh, let me stop you.

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You'll go next.

Unknown Speaker (01:59:13.000)

Oh, Troyer.

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I've known him eight years.

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He's a bad ass guy that helps disabled children.

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What a model that feeling.

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Super good person.

Unknown Speaker (01:59:23.079)

You can't.

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It's called booze.

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You can bottle it.

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You can get it at any liquor store.

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That dude cannot just shut the fuck up and let his weirdo friend feel the question.

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It's so important to throw Owen's dumb ass into the center stage.

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So Darren's not answering the question here because it's likely that if he staked a firm

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position it could bite him in the ass later.

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So this becomes a game of what about this thing?

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It just doesn't really connect to finding any real answers.

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Darren is right here though that Epps was charged with disorderly conduct, not disrupting

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the proceeding.

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A likely part of this was that he was already on his way home to the hotel when the proceeding

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was actually disrupted and because he was cooperative and pled guilty.

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If the prosecutors wanted to charge him with harsher stuff I don't think the people would

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have been too upset.

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And honestly, living the rest of your life being the target of shithead conspiracy theorists

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desperate for a scapegoat so they can keep monetizing domestic extremism is a far worse

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fate than a couple months in jail.

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If I were Epps I would have taken the jail time over that shit no question.

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Please, yeah.

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If I could go back, yeah.

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So Darren doesn't specifically name the other person who Ray Epps is talking to in that

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leave this here video.

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And no matter where you look I can't find anybody saying what his name is which is weird.

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So I watch that video and Darren is saying that the guy, you know, Darren says that he's

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being told to leave his bear mace but there's nothing of that sort on screen.

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This is assumed that is what it is.

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I've heard other people assume that maybe it was a club, but it could also just be the

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guy's bullhorn.

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He's talking to a bullhorn.

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There's no support to make a definitive claim about what Ray Epps was saying to leave behind.

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And to stake the position it was bear maces, strange.

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So I went through a ton of charging documents and the FBI's page of folks who were arrested

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or of interest in the events of January 6th and it took forever but I think I figured

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out who the guy is.

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He's wearing a fairly distinctive red and black plaid shirt and black hood.

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His face is not visible in the video with Epps so it's kind of hard to say for sure

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but there's one other reason that I think I figured out who the guy is.

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The person in the video has a bit of an accent and I think that it comes from Philly.

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I think it's a Philly accent.

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And this guy who was wearing the red and black plaid shirt has the same sort of body type

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is from Pennsylvania.

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He's from the middle of Pennsylvania but that's a little Philly.

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The person that I have a suspicion is who Darren is talking about is a guy named Marshall

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Neef and he didn't have bear mace.

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But the problem with this theory is that Darren says that the guy hasn't even gone to a district

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judge but Neef entered a plea agreement in March 2022 and was sentenced to 41 months

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in prison that September.

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So I can't say because Darren pretends to know who this person is but doesn't say a

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name and just gives vague details but if that's who he was talking about that case is in no

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way comparable to Epps.

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He went into the Capitol, assaulted an officer and there's a long track record of him planning

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with his friend who he was also charged with actions in DC.

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They hoped to start a war.

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They hoped a war would start.

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I don't know for sure if this is the right person but if it is, his actions aren't comparable

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so the charges are not a reasonable standard to compare these two by.

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We may never know what was going to play out because Alex had to butt in there to complain

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about Owen Troyer.

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We may never get an answer of who this person was because Alex had to, uh, you're next.

Unknown Speaker (02:02:35.520)

I'm gonna interrupt you.

Unknown Speaker (02:02:36.520)

Yep, yeah, man.

Unknown Speaker (02:02:37.520)

I gotta talk about community service for a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (02:02:39.880)

Wow.

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Yeah, I see this is still one of those things where it's like I feel like we've gotten into

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a conversation about a detail that is largely irrelevant to the point that we're talking

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about.

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Like again, the courts are in on it.

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It doesn't matter what charges they bring.

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They could bring any charges.

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They could bring I don't like you today charges, you know, like that.

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The courts are in on it.

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That can no longer matter.

Unknown Speaker (02:03:07.079)

But the question is being asked by the party that doesn't think that.

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Right, right, right.

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That's why there's that disconnect, right?

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But you that's but the idea of that question is to point out that it doesn't matter.

Unknown Speaker (02:03:18.079)

And then you that but the continuing to talk about it means nothing.

Unknown Speaker (02:03:21.840)

Well, you know, like, I don't I don't know if I fully agree with you, but I do agree

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that they are dealing with a topical thing instead of the under the surface.

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The problem that actually under lies their disagreement is not getting anywhere near

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dealt with.

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Yeah, not even close.

Unknown Speaker (02:03:38.680)

Um, but Owens, what about Owen?

Unknown Speaker (02:03:41.479)

What about Owen?

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What about how is Owen doing?

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Is he?

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Is he still on?

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Is he still on the air?

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He's doing the war room.

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Damn.

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He's doing good.

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Big beard.

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Doing good.

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Shut up.

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With me saying don't go in.

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They charge him and in the charging documents say Owens lying.

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He doesn't work for info wars.

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That's in the charging documents, the sentencing documents.

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The judge says, I'm putting you in these months in federal prison because you just question

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the election again.

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And gave three examples.

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No, no.

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No.

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So Owen, Owen spends months in a federal prison.

Unknown Speaker (02:04:14.000)

Why didn't he talk about the deferred, deferred agreement that he had in 2019?

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I agree.

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Oh, cold pink runs around and protesting.

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He put tape over his mouth when they were letting leftists run around and throw red

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paint in Congress.

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And they said, sir, you can't do that.

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And he agreed that he wouldn't do it.

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And he didn't protest.

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He went to a restricted area.

Unknown Speaker (02:04:34.399)

He was in a restricted area, though.

Unknown Speaker (02:04:35.960)

No, he was.

Unknown Speaker (02:04:36.960)

Listen, listen, listen, listen, Owen is there with me saying, don't go in.

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He agreed he would not protest.

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He was there saying, don't go in the Capitol and you're not going to defend him.

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But he pled guilty to everything that he got charged with.

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Because it's a rigged DC court.

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There we go.

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Or he.

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Oh, you laughed.

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It's not happening yet.

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It's funny because like the problem is on our side.

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We've got testimony under oath.

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We've got judicial rulings.

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We've got jury trials.

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We've got full videos.

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Everybody's got the video of all of these.

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They have all of these pieces of evidence.

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And you say I can't finish a single statement.

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I really know you can't.

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The problem is something my reporter deserves to go to jail for being there and trying to

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keep going.

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He had a deferment.

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He pled guilty.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:20.119)

Yeah.

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What do you do in a rigged DC court?

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Fight your case.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:23.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:24.680)

Oh, yeah.

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Innocent fight.

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If you have evidence that you're innocent fight.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:27.680)

But there was no evidence because he broke the agreement that he signed and then he pled

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guilty and said I broke the agreement that I signed and agreed to the sentence that the

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sentencing guidelines.

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And Trump shouldn't be able to run for office.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:38.319)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:39.319)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:40.319)

So we got constant just deflection, deflection, deflection, deflection, and it's just that

Unknown Speaker (02:05:43.319)

Alex can't keep up.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:46.319)

And I think that, I mean, this cuts to your issue of the courts.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:49.399)

Like eventually you make enough rebuttals to Alex's points and it'll just be like, nothing

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is real.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:55.720)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:56.720)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:05:57.720)

It's just a matter of like chipping away at the, the deflections until you get to him

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being like, nothing is, nothing is real.

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You can't, you can't trust anything.

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And eventually he grabs his ball and he says, I'm going to go home.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:10.079)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:11.079)

But there will be layers.

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Yes.

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Of fake argument before that.

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That's what I'm saying.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:16.479)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:17.479)

It's a little annoying.

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So destiny is trying to make the point here that Alex is actually arguing in favor of

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insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:25.279)

Yeah.

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And if you don't believe that the courts are even possible to have any of your shit in,

Unknown Speaker (02:06:30.239)

then you're actually arguing for overthrowing and Alex doesn't really, how do you not understand

Unknown Speaker (02:06:36.359)

that?

Unknown Speaker (02:06:37.359)

I mean, he might understand it, but he doesn't engage.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:38.960)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:39.960)

This entire argument has been you again, arguing for an insurrection for rebellion.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:44.279)

All we have, everything we have over here is actual testimony under oath, actual rulings,

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actual rulings by judges, actual rulings by Supreme court.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:55.560)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:56.560)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:06:57.560)

We, we, we are, we can provide these arguments.

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We can provide the evidence.

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We can write the testimony on all you do is go, Oh, well I don't trust the courts.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:01.920)

Oh, well I don't trust statements made under oath.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:03.560)

Oh, well, Oh, how's in the FBI done this in the past?

Unknown Speaker (02:07:05.880)

You can skirt by providing hard evidence.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:07.560)

I gotta be able to finish one thing, you can skirt by it.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:12.000)

You can skirt by on providing any hard evidence for literally a single claim that you've made

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today.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:17.279)

There hasn't been any evidence provided to support any of the claims made today.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:20.239)

And you are hand brushing away every single other claim that's made by, under oath, by

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people that were loyal to Trump, by people that Trump trusted over and over and over

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again.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:30.960)

And at the end of the day, like what could you possibly be advocating for besides an

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insurrection?

Unknown Speaker (02:07:35.479)

I can't even finish a thing.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:36.479)

I think it's cause when I talk, you get really afraid.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:38.000)

I appreciate that.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:41.079)

You just said, when I defended Owen, you just said, here you are advocating for insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (02:07:46.079)

Again, exact quote, a guy saying, don't go in the Capitol as a reporter and you don't

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even stand up for the first amendment.

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Do you trust the courts?

Unknown Speaker (02:07:53.760)

See, this is, this is again, Alex not being able to track a thought and some of it is

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maybe convenient that he can't track a thought because actually understanding the point that

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Destiny is making would be kind of difficult for him to get around.

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And that is further clarified or Destiny tries to clarify that by, you know, at the end of

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that clip, he says, do you not trust the courts?

Unknown Speaker (02:08:16.479)

And so he tries to, he tries to get to the nub here.

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Do you trust the courts?

Unknown Speaker (02:08:22.000)

I don't think most Americans do.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:23.479)

That's when you have real revolution.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:24.479)

If you don't trust the court, real revolution, what are we doing?

Unknown Speaker (02:08:26.560)

A real revolution.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:27.560)

There you go.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:28.560)

Hey, listen, we're not trying to go there right now.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:29.800)

We are there right now.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:30.800)

We just, it's January 6th.

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If there was any time to go there, don't touch me.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:34.239)

Listen, if there is one, where would you, don't touch me.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:37.359)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:38.359)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:39.359)

We'll see.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:40.359)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:41.359)

Where is the, didn't like four people dying on January 6th for obesity and meth?

Unknown Speaker (02:08:44.159)

If these are the people we have to fight, I think we'll be okay.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:46.600)

Oh, Ashley Babbitt, you're dehumanizing her?

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Was she on meth?

Unknown Speaker (02:08:49.680)

I don't think she was one of the four that died from meth.

Unknown Speaker (02:08:51.239)

She definitely gunshot.

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Did she deserve to be shot?

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She was trying to climb into an area where federal agents were saying, if you're climbing

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here, I'm going to shoot you.

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Federal Gods.

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Federal Gods.

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Did federal agents not have the right to shoot people?

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You would have pulled the trigger on her.

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You liked that.

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If I was one of the federal agents there and I thought it was appropriate to do so.

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Their job is to protect the people inside.

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Do I like that?

Unknown Speaker (02:09:11.039)

No.

Unknown Speaker (02:09:12.039)

You guys were the ones cheering on the other side of that.

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All right.

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I think we got a little detail.

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You guys were cheering for it the entire time.

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Talking about it.

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Wait, I want to know what do we do if we don't trust the courts?

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We don't trust the person.

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We don't trust the president.

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Julian Assange deserved to be in prison.

Unknown Speaker (02:09:22.960)

I'm not here to talk about Julian Assange or the rest of your friends, okay?

Unknown Speaker (02:09:26.039)

Tell me, what do we do if we don't trust-

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You want to put journalists in prison.

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There's a reason he won't answer the question.

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The reason why is because he answered rebellion and insurrection.

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The reason why is because of these things.

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We're going to get back to-

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We are going to get back to-

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Okay.

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So we get the God Mike, Ian, chiming in because-

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There's nowhere for Alex to go.

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There is not another angle and Alex, I mean, maybe he could probably come up with a couple

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more deflections or something, but it seems like destiny is pretty much like a dog with

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a bone here that is like, I'm going to hold on to this because-

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Yeah, you guys want a revolution.

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That's what you want and then you tried.

Unknown Speaker (02:10:03.279)

Yeah, and so many of the arguments that you're making about January 6th are excusing the

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fact that you wanted a revolution and overthrow.

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Right.

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Right.

Unknown Speaker (02:10:14.319)

Okay, so here's why I struggle with this entire thing from the jump.

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Right.

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All right.

Unknown Speaker (02:10:24.039)

Is that fundamentally before we even get to what the definition or the conversation is,

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the motivation behind their position is to make it happen again.

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Yeah.

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At all costs.

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Yeah.

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Which means lying.

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Well, I think so.

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You can't do... Okay, I mean, what are they going to say?

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Like, here's why we're not going to tell you the truth about how that was an insurrection

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is because if we say it was an insurrection, then we won't get to try next time, whereas

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if I lie about it, then maybe people will forget for a while and then we'll get another

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crack at it.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, that's kind of the entire MO of Alex calling all sorts of acts of rape and

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terrorism false flags.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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You excuse things.

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You try to make it look like, oh, that's not really real in order to provide cover for

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and facilitate future acts of the variety.

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Here is my evidence that it is an insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (02:11:20.359)

You are telling me it's not.

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I mean, that wouldn't hold up in court, but I emotionally understand what you're saying.

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The only reason to tell me it's not an insurrection is so you can do it again or so you don't

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face consequences for doing it.

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Or you can keep monetizing it.

Unknown Speaker (02:11:34.479)

Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (02:11:37.479)

Ray Epps apparently is way worse than Rambo, Joe Biggs, or Stuart Rhodes.

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Way worse.

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Way worse.

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There is a far more serious conspiracy charge that the government had available to them.

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If we use the standards that they've applied in similar January six cases, it was way worse,

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way worse than Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes.

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I mean, he's literally we're we're saying invade the capital where Stuart Rhodes attacking

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people are ramming signs.

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Ray Epps did that.

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I mean, that's literally on your show.

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Literally said that if Trump doesn't impose the insurrection act, that we need an insurrection.

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And he said, storm the capital.

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And he went into the capital and he hurt police officers.

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He did not call for people.

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Joe Biggs did.

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Joe Biggs went in the capital.

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Either Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes.

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Stuart Rhodes did not do that.

Unknown Speaker (02:12:26.399)

No.

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One of them.

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I forget which one it was.

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Joe Biggs.

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He said that.

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Yeah.

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Joe got it.

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You don't even know what I'm going to say.

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You're in jail.

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He doesn't.

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You don't know what I'm going to say, though.

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That's what you're saying.

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What other sentencing guidelines does Alex have?

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To kill the National Guard.

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Let me just answer really quickly.

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Let me let me say something.

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Stuart Rhodes did say that on air and I told him he was wrong to his face.

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So I'm going to be honest.

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Wait a second.

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One thing before it happened.

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He did say if Trump calls us out for a civil war and I was like, dude, I'm not for this

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on air.

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That's very quickly.

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You want it?

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There's a lot of rhetoric on both sides.

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Rhetoric.

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Rhetoric.

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You're not equivocating under no metric did Ray Epps do more than Stuart Rhodes or Joe

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Biggs.

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No.

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I honestly am not sure what Bette is talking about with Stuart saying they should shoot

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people, but I definitely think that's not out of character for Stuart.

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So I don't know.

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What interests me the most here is that Alex is having to backpedal.

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He says that Joe Biggs should have a year in prison.

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Why?

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Why?

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He's willing to concede that Stuart Rhodes said that they should take over the Capitol

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and then shoot people?

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Sure.

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That seems like a giant thing to be hand waving away as just some talk, considering how seriously

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he's taking a text message Ray Epps sent his nephew.

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Who among us hasn't listened to Stuart Rhodes claim that it's okay to overthrow the government

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and then inspire people to do so?

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And who among us has not texted our nephew a little bit of weird stuff?

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I don't know exactly what Alex is even talking about, but I do know that he never disagreed

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with Rhodes when he laid out his plans on air.

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No, absolutely not.

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Like this clip from November 10th, 2020 discussing the earlier DC rally, which was the culmination

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of Owen's dumb caravan tour.

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Um, look, you know, just as, just as Americans from across the country stormed up to Bundy

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ranch to stand up for a rancher's family, you need to go to Washington DC with the same

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conviction.

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I was about to say, this is a commie, tricom takeover with an admitted Chinese agent.

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You better get your ass to DC folks this Saturday.

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Yeah, if you don't, there's, there'll be no more Republic, but we're not gonna let that

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happen.

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It's not even if it's, it's either president Trump is encouraged and bolstered strengthened

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to do what he must do, or we wind up in a, in a bloody fight.

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We all know that the fight's coming.

Unknown Speaker (02:14:31.000)

But he has a chance to fix this very quickly, um, with, by, by defending the snake.

Unknown Speaker (02:14:35.800)

I agree.

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Let me ask you this.

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We'll do a final segment here.

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Then Paul Watson takes over.

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Oh, it sounds like he agreed.

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So Alex doesn't disagree at all with Stuart laying out exactly what they want to and plan

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to do.

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They just didn't do it that time because time wasn't running out yet.

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Trump had lost, but there was still hope that there would be an easy solution to this.

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By January 6th, the inauguration was right around the corner.

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And if the election got certified that day, there was no other procedural way to stop

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Biden from taking office.

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And why is that important to Stuart?

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Because he's a man entirely obsessed with the idea of being in charge of his own state

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sanctioned military.

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He's been very consistent about this for the last decade and his appearances on Alex's

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show, the belief that he was building a militia in the oath keepers and that they should be

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the state's muscle.

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It wasn't relevant during the Obama years.

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So his focus was mostly on agitation and using civil unrest incidents to grow his ranks.

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But when Trump got in, he was obsessed with the idea that Trump would call up the oath

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keepers as the real militia of the United States and he would be in charge of it.

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Here's a small selection of times he talked about that on Infowars.

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The president can call off the National Guard and call us up as the militia and we'll go

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suppress the insurrection.

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So he could call forth the militia, which include the National Guard and all of us as

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the militia to suppress the insurrection.

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He can call us up as the militia of the United States in the federal service right now and

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deploy us on the border, even if the governor of California doesn't want you to go.

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The president could call us up as the unorganized militia under federal statute right now.

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There's the organized militia as the National Guard and then under federal statute, the

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unorganized militia as the rest of us.

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And so President Trump certainly could call us up to go and execute the laws of the union

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and suppress the insurrection by the radical left and to repel the invasion down on the

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border.

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He could do all those three things by calling us up.

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So even though the states have not formed militias, which they should, the president

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can call us up as the militia.

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He could also call us up as the militia.

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All of us veterans.

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I was a paratrooper in the army.

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A lot of us are a prior service would be happy to go down there.

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So this isn't an exhaustive retelling of the times he's talked about this.

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Those are not from the same day or even the same year.

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Nope.

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Stewart understood fully well that the opportunity for him to achieve his dreams and be a big

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boy in charge of a real army was slipping through his fingers.

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If Biden got into office, there was no chance of him getting made into the real militia

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of the United States without an all out civil war.

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So really January 6th was the ultimate last inflection point for him.

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It's very easy to understand his actions if you understand that he's been talking about

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what he wants for over a decade on Alex's show and this was the last chance to get it.

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And Alex never disagreed with Stewart, he was right there with him, spouting pseudo-history

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and nonsense about his flawed understanding of the Constitution to rationalize Stewart's

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bloodlust and his desire for power.

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But Alex has realized by now that he's not dealing with totally unprepared people.

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He knows that if bed and destiny are bringing up things that Stewart Rhodes said, they probably

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know what they're talking about.

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So it's probably strategically better to acknowledge something, distance yourself from it, and

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then minimize it as locker room talk.

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That's pure diversion, but Alex knows it sounds like Stewart, so he probably should just bite

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the bullet on this.

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It's cowardly, but you know, whatever.

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I think this is the fun thing, is that you could really claim Stewart said just about

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anything.

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And Alex would be like, you know what, he probably did, let's face it.

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I mean, look, hey, that's extreme, but...

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Yeah, that sounds like him.

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And hey, I loved having him on the show and I raised a bunch of money for him and the

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Oathkeepers wouldn't exist without their exposure early days on InfoAwards.

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I basically facilitated the creation of this group.

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Sure.

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But yeah, man, that guy was fucked up.

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Yeah, I do find it interesting how it seems impossible for people to take a lot of these

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people, or a lot of people at their word, whenever they go like, I want something, repeatedly,

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and then they try and get it, people are like, why could they possibly have done this?

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You know?

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I think a lot of people just never listen to InfoAwards.

Unknown Speaker (02:18:27.340)

Well, that's fair.

Unknown Speaker (02:18:28.340)

So Bed has an interesting point here, and that is that they keep going back to this

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thing about Rahab sending a text message, but what about all the Proud Boys and Oathkeeper

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text messages?

Unknown Speaker (02:18:39.479)

Yeah, I've never seen any of those.

Unknown Speaker (02:18:41.299)

You put that together with...

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No, I guess there was some rhetoric.

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It was dangerous.

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So, I mean, if you put that together with the planning, him and Biggs were planning

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on two different ends, one Oathkeeper's, one Proud Boys.

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There's no proof they planned it.

Unknown Speaker (02:18:53.379)

Well, if you look at the telegram message...

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An undercover agent recorded the conversation in the garage.

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But have you looked at the telegram messages where they're basically instructing people

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where to go and where they're at, and that saying, hey, we stormed the Capitol, we took

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the Capitol.

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Yeah, there's no doubt there was LARPing without Trump's directives of some people talking

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about that.

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All right, we're gonna...

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Wait, why don't we trust their messages, but we do trust Rahab's bragging to his nephew

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that he orchestrated.

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He's six foot three.

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We're talking about it.

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We're gonna go...

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Yeah, Glenn.

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Let's like Glenn finish this one off, because then I have another question for you guys.

Unknown Speaker (02:19:26.819)

So that question from Destiny, and it was started by bed, is a headshot.

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Yeah.

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Alex has accidentally acknowledged that the messages of Joe Biggs and the other Proud

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Boys saying stuff like, make no mistake, we did this, he's acknowledged those are real

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and Destiny asks him why Alex cares so much about Epps's message, but not that one.

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Alex slipped up because he's very busy defending Trump, so he lost sight of the larger points

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that are being discussed.

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And you also might notice that even though Destiny just hit that finishing maneuver on

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Alex, it really doesn't matter, Alex just hand waves and then pretends that he's the

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only person here being honest and that the other side isn't.

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This is honesty inside a fake constructed reality that Alex lives in, which is to say

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that the only thing that is honest is what's working for me right now.

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Yeah, we're gonna have to go to Glenn.

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I'm sorry.

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I have to interrupt you.

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And once again, you see Ian throwing it to Glenn when Alex is in a bad place.

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I want to make it very clear.

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I don't think that it's a pre-coordinated thing or that necessarily the person is in

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his ear being like, bail, bail, but it does happen.

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It's happening a bit and it could just be Ian's instincts, honestly, but it's notable.

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What's important is not why, it's what he's doing.

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Whether or not it's because he has the razor instincts or because there's somebody in his

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ear telling him to do something.

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What matters is he's helping.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There's structural support for Alex.

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And directed and on purpose.

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But it could be just directed by Ian's instincts.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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And an understanding of who's paying for the debate.

Unknown Speaker (02:20:56.700)

Well, that's definitely true.

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So Glenn comes in and condescends some more.

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Glenn finished this one off because then I have another question for you guys.

Unknown Speaker (02:21:03.459)

Yeah, the whole thing, like listening to them, I honestly, it's like, listening, I don't

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mean to be insulting.

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I'm just saying this, you know, it's what it sounds like, like seventh graders who learned

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civics class and have this understanding of how the U S government works, like, Oh, the

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FBI investigate and they discover crimes and then they go to the court.

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Glenn, you should be grateful.

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You were very far away from the court to make rulings and everything that has happened in

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January 6th.

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And you can even look at the people they picked and choose who to expand the law.

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The people who ended up getting prosecuted on felony counts, even though they were nonviolent

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had these incredibly novel interpretations of law that were used against them to turn

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nonviolent demonstration and nonviolent political protest into felony by taking this post Enron

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law and giving it a stretch meeting that it never had before.

Unknown Speaker (02:21:48.579)

And the reason so many of them plead guilty is because they know that if they go into

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court, they're going to have rulings against them because a lot of these judges, especially

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in Washington are not only democratic party judges, but the entire system is furious to

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watch people go and put their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's entire system, decided it has to

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be punished.

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So it's one thing to be wary and critical of the FBI and any apparatus of the government,

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but it's another to act like this, the condescending attitude, the fast talking and the actual

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words he's saying are just a awful combination.

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The FBI committing some awful acts in the past is not evidence that everything they

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do is part of an evil plot and that no one is actually investigating real crimes.

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The courts getting some cases wrong and there being some cases of corruption is not proof

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that the courts are all part of an evil plot.

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Taking this kind of a blanket knee jerk opposition is just as idiotic as saying as the FBI is

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always right or that the courts are always perfect arbiters of the law.

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One's childishly naive and the other's childishly cynical.

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You notice there that Glenn doesn't point out like which specific cases he's talking

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about, which is weird.

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If you pay attention to what he's saying, he's not even really finishing sentences as

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he goes along, but he's talking about everything that happened in January 6th.

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He's already wrong there.

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Sure.

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He doesn't finish his thoughts, so we don't know exactly where that plane would have crashed.

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Then he says that the people were picked and choosed who have the law expanded to charge

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them.

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It doesn't specify who these people are or what law that is.

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People.

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Some law.

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It's about people who were charged with felonies who were non-violent.

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Felonies, non-violent people, see.

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Do you think that all felonies have to be violent?

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That means some felonies have to be violent.

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Isn't stealing of violence?

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So all of this comes into focus when he mentions the post-Enron law aspect of this.

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He's talking about the Sarbein-Oxley Act of 2002, which was passed after the Enron scandal.

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This had to do with obstruction of an official proceeding, and what Glenn is saying has some

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point to it, but he's way off track.

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First of all, according to NPR's tracker of J6-related arrests, 245 out of the 1,241 people

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have been charged with obstruction of an official proceeding.

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Many of these people are the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers who did actively conspire to

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stop the certification of the votes, and many of the others are folks who acted particularly

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egregiously during the riot.

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Like Robert Turner, who we mentioned on the last episode, the guy who hit three officers

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in the head with a fire extinguisher.

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Not all of them were that extreme or even violent, but often those were the people who

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made contact with authorities.

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Isaac Thomas is another person who got charged with this.

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He swung a flagpole at officers and threw a Gatorade bottle at them.

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Yeah, that's too many.

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Not as egregious, necessarily, as throwing a fire extinguisher, but yeah, that'll get

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you obstruction of the proceeding.

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It'll do it.

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I would be highly concerned and maybe even agree with Glenn if everyone was being charged

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with this count, then I might come around to thinking that maybe this is an attempt

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to turn political activism into a felony, but I'm not convinced.

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People have discussed the strategy of using this statute in this way as the government

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trying to be creative about how they prosecute what is one of the most extreme events in

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recent history.

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It's definitely a special circumstance, so the idea that they would consider an unconventional

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count to charge people with, that isn't insane as long as the charge is actually appropriate.

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Some people have said that the law doesn't apply to something like trying to stop the

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certification of an election, and that question's pretty much settled.

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It does.

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However, there is a bigger question that does merit some examination, which is what is the

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Mendoza line with this thing?

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This is a felony, so what's the dividing line where someone's actions become a felony in

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service of obstructing an official proceeding?

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Because there would obviously be a version of this that isn't a felony, there has to

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be a line.

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It's a pretty important question, since pretty much everyone who was there on the 6th, whether

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they went to the Capitol or not, was there with the aim of obstructing an official proceeding,

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but obviously they all didn't do it in a way that rises to the level of a felony.

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That lack of clarity about the dividing line could end up being a problem in some prosecutions,

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but that's a matter that's going to be played out as someone may appeal.

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Over time, we'll get a better picture.

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Even acknowledging this, what Glenn is saying is nonsense.

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If they were charging everyone with this, then yeah, his points kind of make sense,

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but maybe a couple people got this charge where it's questionable, and maybe those charges

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will be overturned, but in a lot of these cases, it seems appropriate.

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What I find fascinating about it is that Glenn has just put forth an incredible argument

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for why they attempted to overthrow the government.

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That does seem like... Destiny was one of those boxes of the arguments they're going

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to make.

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It's like you don't realize it, but what you're arguing for is they should be insurrecting.

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You're saying that these people know in advance they cannot get a fair trial in a country.

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You're arguing in favor of a successful overthrow of the government in order to justify a failed

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one, but you don't want to own that position.

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There's all kinds of other fake nuance being thrown in, so Glenn condescends a little more

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in this next step.

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God damn it.

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I want to hit him.

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Then things just break down.

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I do understand that if you believe in this story of American propaganda, that the FBI

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is these upstanding law enforcement people, and they don't do that, and then the courts

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go and make rulings, then you're going to end up with this image of what the three of

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them have, which is this idea that this was one of the worst attacks in American history.

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The courts have ruled.

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Everything the government did in this case is consistent with their longstanding view

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before January 6th, that these groups are criminal groups.

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They need to be criminalized.

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Trump's movement is a threat to the United States, and the entire part of January 6th

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was designed to define them as an insurrectionary movement so that they could criminalize them,

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which is exactly what they're doing.

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I want to respond to Glenn real quick.

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Owen didn't have the money for a criminal trial.

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One second.

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890 convictions are guilty, please.

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Two acquittals.

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Two.

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890 to two.

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How many of those were accused of violence?

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They're not the invention of insurrection.

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I believe 170 or so were for violence.

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E-level targeting.

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Exactly.

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A tiny number, a small percentage- Yeah, and the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is, and

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they should be- They're nonviolent.

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Let Glenn talk.

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Go ahead.

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You understand that usually what happens in the United States with nonviolent protesters

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or even with violent protesters is they don't get charged with anything.

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A tiny percentage of people who use violence throughout all of the Black Lives Matter protests

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ended up in jail because the ideology in which they were protesting was one that was considered

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positive and friendly by the- Sounds like American Make.

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They were on the side of Black Lives Matter- Always treating black people too well.

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The Trump movement and the right wing extremists, as the government calls them, are considered

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enemies of the state, and that was why the entire law enforcement mechanisms were distorted-

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If you want to actually make these- Let me just back up Glenn briefly.

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I'll shut up.

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Let me finish.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Hey listen- It's so great how he promises to leave in

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order to talk more.

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I love it.

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Amazing.

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I have zero idea how someone could enjoy listening to Glenn, and I listen to Alex all the time,

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so that's saying something.

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That's brutal.

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Guy has the most undeservedly condescending tone that I've heard in quite a while.

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There's no virtue or wisdom in pretending everything is corrupt because some things

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are.

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You don't get to pat yourself on the back and declare yourself the king of nuance for

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that.

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You can't go around calling everyone else junior high students when you have big jaded

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high schooler energy.

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Glenn thinks the government decided that the groups like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys

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were criminal groups before January 6th, and I guess he believes they used agents provocateur

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to start a riot at the Capitol to smear the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys who are actively

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planning to start a riot at the Capitol in order to criminalize Trump followers.

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This isn't a person who has a rational and measured criticism of the government and the

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misdealings they've committed in the past.

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This is far more like an Infowars host than I think Glenn wants people to think he is.

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I mean, the first problem is that the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys are absolutely groups

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that tend towards crime, particularly street violence, long before January 6th.

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If Glenn wants to try to deny that, then he's just not dealing with reality.

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I'd be curious what Glenn thinks about the Unite the Right rally.

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Like that was probably the government trying to make Trump supporters look bad too, I guess?

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Also I don't know in what world Glenn thinks 170 convictions out of 890 being violence

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related constitutes a tiny number.

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See?

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Or a small percentage?

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See?

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No, that's a small percentage.

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That's like almost 20%.

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So he seems to just be kind of dishonest and ideologically driven to think that's small.

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One out of every five?

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That means four out of five doctors agree it's not violence.

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I'm certain that under 20% of FBI arrests involve entrapment.

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But if that were the number, would Glenn say that's a tiny number, small percentage?

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I think not.

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Yeah.

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Then Glenn launches into another pretty dumb conspiracy, which is that people involved

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in BLM related protests weren't charged for crimes because they were supporting a cause

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that the man liked, whereas Trump and his supporters were a threat to the man, so they

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were charged.

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It's impossible to make this point and you see them try, but this is apples and oranges.

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And on top of that, Glenn is just adding his imagined motivation for prosecutors charging

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Trump fans.

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That's not based on anything other than his feelings, namely that he likes Trump and he

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doesn't like BLM.

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Yeah.

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The glaring difference is that this was a riot that took place inside and around the

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capital of the United States while the certification of an election was happening with the goal

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of stopping that certification and resisting the peaceful transfer of power.

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I guarantee if Black Lives Matter had done the same thing, there would be as many arrests,

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maybe more, maybe a few suspects getting killed while being taken into custody.

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And actually, Glenn's just wrong.

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Black Lives Matter protests ended up being situations where police fired tear gas at

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protesters constantly.

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A CNN analysis from 2021 found that, quote, DC police arrested more than five times as

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many people at the height of the Black Lives Matter protests last summer than they did

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during the day of the insurrection at the Capitol.

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Business Insider did a breakdown of protest-related arrests and found that there were 69 arrests

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on January 6th at the Capitol.

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Understandably, a lot have happened since, but that's a shockingly low number.

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The protest that Alex is talking about with the Democrats bombing the Capitol was the

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protests on June 1st, 2020, and 194 people were arrested that day.

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No one even stormed the Capitol, and no one was trying to disrupt the certification of

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an election.

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And yet, over 125 more people were arrested at that Black Lives Matter protest than on

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January 6th.

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The protests in Minneapolis on May 26th, right after George Floyd was killed, where the police

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arrested 570 people for protest-related crimes.

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That's almost half of the entire number of people who've been charged since January 6th.

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And again, no one was trying to overturn an election.

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The myth is-

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What they were trying to do was not be murdered by cops.

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Do you remember?

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The goal was to not be murdered by cops, and they were arrested more than the people who

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were like, let's overthrow the country.

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Yeah.

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Just throwing that out.

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The myth is that no one was ever charged for anything during these protests because they

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aren't really people that folks like Alex and Glenn care about.

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They don't count as people.

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You can say it stems from a hatred of the left, or woke politics, or the very obvious

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answer of racism.

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But whatever the case, you could show them tons of cases of people arrested at those

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protests.

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They insist no one was arrested at, and it wouldn't pierce the narrative for them.

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That's what this all comes down to, and what Glenn is articulating is the narrative.

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Trump is a threat to the corrupt and evil US system, so his supporters are treated unfairly

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by the corrupt and evil US system.

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It's just a grievement porn.

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Also, isn't Glenn supposed to be a big anti-surveillance guy?

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Shouldn't he be concerned with the government abused section 702 of FISA to investigate

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133 Black Lives Matter protesters who were arrested in connection with protests?

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I think they wouldn't do that kind of thing, since the government's sympathetic to their

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cause.

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I'm sure that Glenn is concerned with police brutality, so I can't understand why he's

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not up in arms about how New York City had to pay out $13 million to 1300 protesters

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in a class action lawsuit after they were kettled into areas they couldn't escape from

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and then beaten and pepper sprayed.

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I imagine the police did that to show their support, you know, because they supported

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their cause.

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Yeah, I want to say the studies on permanent damage from the amount of tear gas and shit

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that cops have hit protesters with.

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I'm sorry, the left with.

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There's, I mean, it's just nonsense in search of deflection.

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It's a legitimate, like, this is what I want the government to do, hit these people.

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This is what I don't want the government to do, exist in any fashion that's not hitting

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those people.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So Alex, I think he's just bored by any semblance of a debate.

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And so he just...

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That's fair though.

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That is a fair point.

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Yeah.

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I mean, look, I think that we can find some common agreement there, but he just decides

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he wants to do his show.

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I think.

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Good call.

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Barely any of them got charged.

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There are plenty of them that were charged.

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There are plenty that were charged.

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Can I just say one thing, I'm going to say one thing, I'm going to take a break here.

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Yeah, we're actually all going to be taking a short five minute break here in a moment,

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but Alex, you want...

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I'm just going to say this right now.

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Ladies and gentlemen, we saw billions of dollars of stuff burn down.

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We saw all the killings and we never said all Democrats are involved in that.

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Yes you did.

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That is a 100% thing you said.

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I was just saying, everyone in DC was a terrorist.

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They're all bad.

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You can't vote for Trump.

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Man, you can really get the feeling Alex just wants to do his show.

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He wants to interrupt and make the pronouncements that he always does and this interjection

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really doesn't make sense in the context of a debate, but as a monologue, sure.

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This guy does sound like he could use some more iced tea though.

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Alex absolutely did say that all Democrats were involved in the violence and property

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destruction that stemmed from the social justice related protests.

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One million percent.

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Yeah.

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He thinks Kamala Harris personally bailed out violent criminals, so that should tell

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you how his radar is on assigning blame, but he says it a lot to make himself feel better

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that he doesn't assign group blame for things, so he just repeats that self reassuring statement

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in order to accuse his opponents of assigning group blame in that speech that Biden made

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last night during a debate that's supposed to be about January 6th.

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We're supposed to be talking about January 6th.

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Is that what we're talking about?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So far off track.

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All right.

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So bad comes in with a hypothetical for Alex and this is tough because his brain is not

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in a state where hypotheticals are the best strategy.

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What if instead of the Capitol is the White House and there's thousands of people at the

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White House fence and they push through the fence, do you think those people deserve more

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of a criminal penalty than people that were rioting in, I don't know, L.A.?

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No.

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I mean, if it turns out they were under the directive of a foreign power-

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No, no.

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Wait, what?

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Wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Did they kill a cop?

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It's the crime that came out.

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So if a bunch of Americans when Trump was in the White House stormed the White House

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fence with guns, with weapons and made it past the fence and they were at the doors

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of the White House, do you think that they would act-

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When Trump asked for the National Guard to stop that, Milley said no.

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Trump didn't ask for that.

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He didn't ask for the National Guard.

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Milley's on record saying, I threatened to resign.

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That was not, that wasn't January 6th, that was weeks before.

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You just said about the White House.

Unknown Speaker (02:36:57.059)

Yeah, but nobody was-

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See, I'm giving you specifics.

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Nobody was-

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I'm giving you specifics.

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Didn't anybody cross police barricades into the White House?

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Well, no.

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You know what I saw was the police after a little bit of a fight opened the doors and

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waved people in and a bunch of-

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They didn't wave people in.

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Oh my God.

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Everybody.

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Get the footage of the police-

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There's one clip out of-

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There's hundreds.

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There's hundreds.

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There's hundreds.

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There's no hundreds of clips of people waving people through the door.

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What I saw were people breaking the windows, climbing through broken windows, unlocking

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multiple doors and letting other people in.

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Once in, police were forced to basically deescalate the situation and make sure that the Congress

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people were protected.

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At that point, they were outnumbered 10 to one, the Capitol Police to the rioters.

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At that point, those videos where they're walking alongside people, they're funneling

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them into the-

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Hey, I was there.

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I was there.

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You weren't in the Capitol and I give you credit for that.

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You knew when to turn around.

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I don't.

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I said I was cowardly on top of a car commanding people to invade.

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But thank God Jack Posobick, because I didn't have a Twitter then, put the video out of

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me saying don't go in.

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I got through in the middle of it.

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Man-

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I'm glad you didn't.

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And you made the right decision.

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When you're there with 300,000 people, there's a million in town, and they don't even know

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what's happening from them.

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They're being guided in.

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A lot of those innocent people that just walked to the Capitol have been sent to prison.

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So that was an interesting exchange, I think, because I don't think Alex in any way followed

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what Ben was saying.

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No, not at all.

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The hypothetical didn't connect.

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It did connect a little bit.

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No.

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No.

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But what I think is more fascinating is that Ben was able to stand up to Alex's belligerence,

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which is nice to see.

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It was.

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You have Alex saying that police just waved people in, and Ben is able to explain the

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context of that video.

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Alex isn't used to being called on something like this, so he entirely crumbles.

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And then Ben, I think accidentally wins Alex over with flattery by saying it was good of

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him to not go into the Capitol.

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I know.

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It's such a stark turnaround from them arguing to Alex sounding like a guy having a friendly

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conversation at the bar at the end of that clip.

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Oh, you said nice.

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I think the hinge point was mild flattery.

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So stupid.

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I think that's what happened.

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Here's what I don't understand.

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How is their next thing not going to be like, uh, Alex, you told people not to go.

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Why?

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There is a reason.

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What was that reason?

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Because the feds are trying to set people up by having them go in.

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And?

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Uh, Owen didn't do anything.

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Did you see Biden's speech last night?

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So Ian tries to set things in order and has a question.

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Okay.

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But I want to ask you guys, he's talking about these people in prison, these prison sentences.

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So we're going to, I want to talk to you briefly about if you think these prison sentences

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that some of these people are getting are justified or not.

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And then we're going to be taking questions from the audience from zero hedge premium.

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So if you haven't signed up at zero hedge.com, sign up for the premium service and you may

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be able to get a question before we wrap.

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So the questions that Ian has for this debate are pretty bad.

Unknown Speaker (02:39:49.059)

Yeah.

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The answers that these people are going to have are very obvious before they say anything

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and it's just going to turn into that old daily show sketch.

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Even Steven.

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Yes.

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No.

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Yes.

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No.

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I'm interested to see what questions come in from zero hedge premium subscribers.

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That'll definitely be a diverse and representative cross section of people from all walks of

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life and political backgrounds.

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Great.

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Wow.

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How many questions do you think they get to?

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Zero.

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Higher.

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Two.

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Yes.

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That sounds about right.

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Is that the number of people who just signed up for zero hedge premium?

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The feeling is they would have got to more if things were different in the room.

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Gotcha.

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Ian does seem a little annoyed that they didn't get to more questions, but what are you going

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to do?

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What are you going to do?

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So anyway, Ian asked this question about the prison sentences and he starts off by going

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to Darren.

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Yeah.

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What do you guys think?

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I mean, let me start with you Darren, because I haven't heard from you.

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By the way, I don't want to rap.

Unknown Speaker (02:40:46.219)

I mean, when I say take a break, a lot of people are tuning in now.

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I'll keep having this debate all day long.

Unknown Speaker (02:40:51.620)

Yeah, we might keep going.

Unknown Speaker (02:40:52.620)

But Darren, what do you think about the prison sentences in general that these people have

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been getting?

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I think they're completely overblown and they're consistent with what we're talking about.

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This amplification of January 6th into this false domestic terrorist act.

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I mean, it was a big deal, January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (02:41:11.100)

But I liked Ian's dismissiveness of Alex there.

Unknown Speaker (02:41:13.459)

Yeah, we may keep going.

Unknown Speaker (02:41:14.459)

Yep.

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That's all.

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I mean, that's all I have to say.

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I felt like Ian might need a compliment and I enjoyed that.

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All right.

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So Darren tries to answer this question, which he has already interrupted by saying we can

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go longer.

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Yep.

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And then Alex interrupts Darren again.

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Great.

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Even the people who committed illegal acts are in effect political prisoners because

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of the political context of these prosecutions, which are vastly overblown and could only

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make sense within this political context of the weaponization, not only of the national

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security state, but unfortunately now also the legal apparatus.

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Let's go on the line with Glenn again and then all you guys.

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But I just want to say something.

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This is important, folks.

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In June of twenty twenty one, Biden put out a national security memorandum, which you

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just mentioned, saying.

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Right wing extremism is the number one threat, and he defined that as white supremism and

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then said, questioning open borders, questioning elections, questioning lockdowns, questioning

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for shots.

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That's in the report I've shown him hundreds of times on air, literally declaring the people

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enemy.

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Then he gives a speech with this red background with Marines.

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I thought I was watching Adolf Hitler.

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And then yesterday he gives a speech saying they're taking over.

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They're a danger.

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We're at war all off a riot at the Capitol.

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At best, it's a riot and obviously provocateur.

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So this is a branding of the of 80 million voters plus as a political enemy.

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This is extremely totalitarian, extremely dangerous.

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And I was there.

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I know you're in a crowd of hundreds of thousands.

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You're up.

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Tear gas is coming down.

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You can't even see what's happening at the Capitol.

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You're saying don't go in there.

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We've got a stage.

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I go there.

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There's a stage.

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No one there.

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I mean, we were set up and I was set up.

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Thank God that I waited 30, 40 minutes.

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I don't know what to do.

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I was like, this is weird.

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How do I lead a crowd that's already left?

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I was there.

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And so all I'm saying is this is not the basis to indict populist Americans and say they're

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terrorists.

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And if the U.S. government spent the equivalent of 10 trillion dollars, they spent a trillion

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in Afghanistan of real current numbers.

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But the estimates now are 10 trillion in current dollars in Vietnam.

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And the Vietnamese wouldn't give up.

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So Swallowsville says, we'll use F-16s, we'll just kill Americans and take your guns.

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F-16s don't take guns, folks.

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I don't want a civil war.

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I don't want violence.

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But the entire deep state couldn't defeat...

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Why is everyone listening to this?

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What is everyone they're doing?

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While they...

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Stop this!

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Stop it!

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Somebody tackle him!

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It needs to stop.

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I don't want a war with Democrats.

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I don't want civil war.

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I don't have some dream of this.

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But this is the election strategy of Joe Biden is civil war.

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Glenn, did you want to say something?

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When I listen to Alex in a context like this, all I can think of is Mark Banks and then

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asking him, do you know what question you're answering?

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Yeah.

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And then Alex looking back at him like a fish.

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Yeah.

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Alex completely forgets in the middle that the topic is, are the jail sentences appropriate?

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Because he remembers that it's fun to fantasize about how well his buddies would do in a civil

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war.

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It is fun.

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It's nonsense.

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What Alex is doing is nothing new.

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Apparently Biden put out a memorandum that said white supremacy is the number one threat

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in terms of domestic terrorism.

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But guess what?

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That happened in 2004 too, and 2005, and 2006, 2007, and on and on.

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This narrative constantly gets replayed on Alex's show anytime a public leader gives

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voice to concerns about how white supremacist and white nationalist groups pose a threat

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to public safety.

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This narrative continues to get reused because Alex's content is driven by intense feelings

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of white victimhood, which is validated by being constantly told that the government

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just declared war on you because you're white.

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In June, 2021, Biden released his national strategy for countering domestic terrorism,

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which listed a threat that emerges, quote, from racially or ethnically motivated violent

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extremists whose racial, ethnic, or religious hatred leads them towards violence, as well

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as those whom they encourage to take violent action.

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This wasn't just white supremacist groups.

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It includes all groups that could fall under that umbrella, but Alex, you know, he hangs

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out mostly with white supremacist types, so his view is a little narrowed by that.

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Yep.

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It didn't say that people who questioned elections or didn't like vaccines were terrorists.

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It said, quote, newer sociopolitical developments such as narratives of fraud in the recent

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general election, the emboldening impact of the violent breach of the U.S. Capitol, conditions

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related to the COVID-19 pandemic, and conspiracy theories promoting violence will almost certainly

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spur some domestic violent extremists to try to engage in violence this year.

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This isn't saying that if you're one of the people who questions elections or doesn't

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like vaccines, you're a terrorist.

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It means that the sociopolitical climate created by these groups creates heightened concerns

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about domestic extremism.

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Conspiracy-minded communities are often good recruitment pools for extremists.

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Think about how many, like, Infowars listeners probably became oathkeepers because of how

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often Stuart Rhodes was on.

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Yeah.

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Being an Infowars listener doesn't make you an oathkeeper, but it makes you more likely

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to have joined.

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In turn, being an oathkeeper doesn't make you a domestic violent extremist, but we've

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seen that it's a possible path towards it.

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Further, conspiracy shit has the tendency to give cover to domestic violent extremists.

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January 6th is a perfect illustration of that.

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The giant crowd that was there obscured the violent extremists that were contained within,

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like the oathkeepers and the Proud Boys.

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This is the exact same shell game Alex has been playing his entire career.

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Go back to 2009, it's the same game with the MIAC report.

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It just gets played over and over and over again because it works.

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Yeah.

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And I tire.

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I tire of it.

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Yeah.

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It is, it is weird that we've all just continued to listen to it.

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You know?

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True.

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And it's, but it is, it's just like fucking, it's, I mean it's not just like, but it makes

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me think of the way people reacted to Alex just saying all that insane nonsense with

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just like, okay then, come on, you talk now.

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The only difference is that in this room it's partially because Alex holds so much sway.

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Right.

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Like it's in his studio and he's friends with the people paying for it.

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Sure.

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So like, he's obviously, and he's drunk, so.

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The reasons that we don't deal with white nationalist terror is also because white nationalists

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hold too much sway in this country.

Unknown Speaker (02:47:28.780)

Yeah, I mean there may be some overlaps there.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So, Ben bores people with facts here.

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Boo.

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And you can just hear Alex like, dreaming of iced tea.

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Yeah.

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Biggs, Stuart Rose, and Enrique Torrio, they were sentenced to some of the harshest sentences

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in, out of all the January Sixers.

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Who was the judge?

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It was a Trump appointed judge, Timothy Kelly.

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Now, if you look at the worst convictions, the ones that received the largest sentences,

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80% of them were actually under the sentencing guidelines, 80%.

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These people didn't receive sentences that were any more harsh than anybody else in other

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crimes.

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These were people sentenced from a Trump judge, a Trump appointed judge.

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So you're all saying that, that, oh, the courts are rigged against conservatives or Trump

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supporters, but these are Trump judges.

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Many of these were Trump judges that actually charged these, not charged these people, but

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sentenced these people.

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I think that if we want to talk about knowing history and understanding history and contextualizing

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history, I think if we want to run with that argument, then we need to do real journalist

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work while we do it.

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It's not enough to say the FBI or the CIA has done this 10, 20 years ago and then blindly

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assert it every single time it happens to fit whatever political narrative you want

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to tell.

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If you want to tell a story, the person telling the story needs to find evidence to support

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it.

Unknown Speaker (02:49:01.180)

Sure, if you want to say the FBI or the CIA or any other domestic agency has been involved

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in spying on Americans and doing bad things, that's fine.

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We all know that it's happened.

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That doesn't mean that you don't have to find evidence in the future of it happening.

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And so far, there was no evidence of it happening on January 6th.

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Many times, you want to throw around the follow politics before 2016 or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (02:49:18.299)

Well, we're in 2024 right now.

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Find some information from today or find some information from January 6th to today.

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It's not enough to just keep appealing to the past and pretend like that's going to

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do your homework for you and that somehow you can make all of these accusations about

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having any real evidence.

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There's a pregnant silence between Bed's point and Destiny.

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And I think that's because what Bed said kind of ruins all their arguments about the politically

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motivated prosecution argument.

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It does.

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It does, you know, people on the Darren Alex Glenn side are insisting there's a conspiracy

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of all these judges and like, wait, we charged many of them under the guidelines.

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How does this work?

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So it seems like it's not a politically motivated witch hunt.

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But then I got to tip the cap to Destiny for that rebuttal.

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It really does cut to the core of Glenn's entire premise with the condescension about

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how the FBI has done bad stuff in the past so you can just assume that they did bad stuff

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this time.

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Sure.

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It's a frustrating thing because this is a solid rebuttal that would be difficult to

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deal with.

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But because of how the debate has been so poorly moderated and full of Alex's substance

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fuel distractions, there's no way that this was able to come up in a coherent way where

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it was a counterpoint to something directly that Glenn had said that Glenn could then

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respond to.

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As it stands, it just feels like a good point in the ether.

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But Destiny goes on because I don't know why, but apparently people are being allowed to

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talk.

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Yeah, what is happening right now?

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Oh, Alex is gone again.

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Oh, okay.

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There are novel uses of charges or people don't do charges like this.

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As I said over here, most of the sentences have been within sentencing guidelines.

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A lot of these have been done with a Trump appointed judge.

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The idea that these charges are novel, that people don't face prosecution like this, there's

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some element of truth to that, but this is also a novel situation.

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We have never had a president in the United States try to resist the peaceful transfer

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of power like this.

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This has just never happened before.

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And you can keep screaming about Hillary Clinton and you can keep screaming about BLM all you

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want and talk about the blown up fire stations and the congressional halls.

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The reality is, is that none of those situations were like this one.

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If you want to keep appealing to those and saying those people should have been charged

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with crimes, we agree they should have been charged with crimes.

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But to even do the whataboutism, you have to already concede that you are wrong on all

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of the merits about the current people you're talking about.

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Every single time we talk about Donald Trump, you go, well, what about when Hillary Clinton

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or Biden did it?

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Oh, okay.

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Then you admit that Trump did?

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Because if you want to admit that Trump is guilty of every single thing that we've been

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accusing him of, which is what you're doing when you go, what about the other guy?

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Because it seems like you're just trying to appeal to hypocrisy at that point rather

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than the fact of the matter.

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Then do that.

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Say, yeah, Trump did try to set an insurrection.

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Yeah, Trump did fail.

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Yeah.

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It was a riot.

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I don't know why you keep saying this.

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Well, let me ask you this.

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No, don't ask me this.

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Let me finish my one point one time without being interrupted by you.

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I came running back because you heard me talking.

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You had to interrupt me.

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I know you came running back to you.

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You were so excited for it.

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Okay.

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I understand this rhetoric of mostly peaceful riot.

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Yeah, it was mostly peaceful.

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A lot of riots that have riot aspects don't have a lot of peaceful people there and a

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10,000 riot.

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There's not always 10,000 people rioting, it might just be 100 people rioting or a thousand

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people rioting.

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The reality was there was one event on January 6th at the Capitol building.

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That event was a riot.

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Okay.

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So let me just add some context here.

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What they had trials in Michigan and one of them, it was a mistrial and they let most

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of them off another.

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And they finally got convicted.

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It came out in court that the feds went and found a bunch of basically homeless potheads.

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And just like Glenn was saying, the New York Times article, but they were more accurate.

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97% of Islamic plots were hatched by the FBI, including the first world trade center bombing.

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And they admit all that.

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And I've interviewed the people involved, Ahmad Salaam.

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Are we all just gonna, the FBI first world trade center bombing, we're all just gonna

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let that one go.

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Same team.

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It is not addressed.

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The FBI went and set these people up and that came out of the mainstream news.

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So we know they, this isn't, you guys were saying, we don't want to go back to 10 years

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ago.

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You know, I'm sat there for six, seven minutes, you know, out there smoking a cigarette.

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I went back.

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You're just going on.

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40 years ago.

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And I'm like, there's no example recently of them doing something corrupt or bad.

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Never said that.

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It's a great example, Alex.

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I said find evidence.

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I said find evidence.

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Six years ago.

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He said you can use steps.

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No, Destiny, this is a great point.

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This is a great point that Alex is making.

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Is it?

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It's not.

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So just to be clear, Alex doesn't have his facts right about the Ahmad Salaam case.

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We've covered that in the past.

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Too much to get into now.

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We are, this is already far too long.

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Yeah.

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In terms of FBI entrapping the vast majority of their terrorism cases after 9-11, I don't

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think there's much doubt about that being a trend.

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I found an interesting article from 2015 published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

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titled Estimating the Prevalence of Entrapment in Post-9-11 Terrorism Cases.

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The researchers reviewed 580 terrorism-related cases and found that about 9% of them posed

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real independent terrorist threats without any entrapment indicators, which is higher

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than the figure that Alex and his folks would cite.

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To be clear, these indicators do not definitively prove entrapment, just that there's a concern.

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The indicators range from some kind of indefinite things like the suspect having no previous

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terrorism history or to the one of them is the suspect is young.

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It ranges from those kinds of things to more concrete things like an informant coming up

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with the plot or an informant paying the suspect.

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The road is somewhat narrow in terms of a case not having one indicator, but still 91%

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having at least one is a troubling stat.

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Yeah, that's not good.

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However, the research led them to the conclusion that not all types of terrorism have the same

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level of indications of entrapment.

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For instance, jihadi-related terrorism averaged 6.3 indicators of entrapment, whereas right-wing

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terrorists indicated they have an average of 2.8.

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For comparison, left-wing terrorist plots averaged 10.2.

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In their research, they found far more indications of government entrapment directed towards

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Muslims and the left-wing, and comparatively very little toward right-wing plots.

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We really gotta make those fucking left-wingers fight people, and these assholes will just

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do it for anybody.

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It's almost like we like them more for the very reasons that we are prosecuting them.

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Alex brings up the Whitmer kidnapping plot, and I'll be honest, that one's messy, but

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also Alex is wrong.

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There were informants, and as you've even pointed out, one of them was the second in

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command of the group, and there are entrapment indicators all around.

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That being said, I'm still not convinced that the plot itself wasn't real.

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It's entirely possible for the FBI to have acted inappropriately and for it to still

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be a real plot, which, like I said, is messy.

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Yeah, no, it's like, listen, that guy, I believe that guy murdered that guy, totally.

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But the cops also did such a bad job investigating and all that stuff that I also think the trial

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is a mistrial, et cetera.

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These are both true things, right?

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Those dudes could have tried to kidnap her.

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Also, you can't be second in command.

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You can't.

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You just can't.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There are many, many questions, but I still, from the things that I've read, am not totally

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convinced that it's an inorganic thing.

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It's just, it is their fault that they're not getting it easily.

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You know what I'm saying?

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Yeah, but more to the point here, Alex is bringing that case up because he's misrepresenting

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what Destiny said earlier.

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Destiny said you point to all of these times the FBI did wrong to prove that they did wrong

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this time, but what you're lacking is evidence involving this time.

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Yeah.

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Alex is using the Michigan case because his misrepresentation was to pretend, as he was

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saying, that these examples that they all gave weren't recent enough.

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Alex does provide the connective tissue that's needed here, though.

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He says the same team that did the Whitmer setup did January 6th, which I guess settles

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it.

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I have no idea what that even means in terms of the real world, but I do think that if

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Alex knows that the same team of setup artists who did the Whitmer plot did January 6th,

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why did we spend so long on Ray Epps?

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What the fuck?

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I would even go so far as to say then they had a first try and fucked up.

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Somehow you think they did worse on the second go round?

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I guess.

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Okay.

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So the question of this entrapment stuff, it raises a specter of, what about left wing

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terrorism?

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Let's see.

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Let's hear about left wing terrorism.

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How do you guys feel about that?

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Yeah.

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How many of the BLM riots were instigated by FBI?

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What?

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How many of the BLM riots were instigated by our own intelligence agencies?

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Well they had agents in there.

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In fact, one of the guys, Sullivan, one of the guys, Jake Sullivan, he had a very complicated

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relationship and Tifa basically excluded him because of his relationship with the government

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and they thought he was a fed.

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Absolutely.

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The feds infiltrate BLM.

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Absolutely.

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Why is it excluded because of his relationship with the government?

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He got excluded because that guy was insane because he was screaming at people to do all

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sorts of violence stuff constantly.

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Nobody wanted to be around him.

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He was on video in the Capitol saying, I told you we're going to stage it.

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I told you it was going to happen.

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Again, for Sullivan, there's no evidence of Sullivan communicating.

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Why are you moving?

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Why is it that when BLM, BLM rioters, I guess you could say, aren't arrested as much as

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you want?

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Like, you know, you say the January sixers were arrested at a much higher rate than the

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rioters.

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That's true.

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Okay.

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How come you don't say that?

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And much more property damage as a result of BLM.

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So here's the thing though, why don't you accuse those who aren't prosecuted for those

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riots of being federal agents?

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Well, in some cases they probably are.

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But at that scale, we don't care more there.

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How do you know?

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Now, if you want to go conspiracy theory, I mean, let's touch all the bases, but I mean,

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Michigan is on record.

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Can I interject?

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Can I interject?

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Can I interject first?

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Let's go to Glenn.

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So this is some bullshit.

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Alex believes that all of these protests on the left are run by Antifa and Soros had contracts

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with them to start martial law.

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But now he doesn't seem so emphatic about that.

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There were literal contracts.

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This is a strange shift in tone from the usual.

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These guys don't spend time trying to find the agent's provocateur in the federal informants

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in cases of left wing rioting, if you even allow the term, because they don't actually

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care about that issue.

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They care about using the specter of informants and entrapment to excuse right wing extremism.

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Darren brings up Jake Sullivan as an attempt of some supposed fed who was at left wing

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protests, but he wouldn't even know that guy if he wasn't an early attempt at a scapegoat

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for January 6th.

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And his name is John.

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Also, let's not forget that Alex, one of his employees, was caught on film desperately

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trying to buy John's footage of Ashley Babbitt being shot minutes after it happened.

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That is what happened.

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As you recall, January 6th.

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I do recall that.

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Yeah, the only reason that guy's name is even known is because he was the proto-Ray Epps.

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Yep.

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That, uh...

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Oh, man.

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I find it so strange how both well-prepared Destiny and the Krasensteins are and how thoroughly

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unaware they are of what limitations they're under.

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It feels insane.

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Like, y'all knew what to expect somewhat coming in, and yet what I feel like you never bothered

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to learn was that they don't care about you to the point where-

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And they don't care about what the points you're making.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It is strange.

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It is like...

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Yeah.

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Also, I was like, Jake Sullivan, that name rings a bell.

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That's the MSNBC guy, right?

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No.

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CNN?

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No, no.

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That's Jake Tapper.

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No, the reason that I was thinking was because the main character in Avatar is Jake Sully.

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Ah!

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Yeah.

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Might have just watched The Way of Water or something, and actually, I haven't seen that,

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so I don't know if you still in it.

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I was gonna say, you absolutely did not watch The Way of Water.

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No, but I've heard of it.

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So, in this next clip, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit, Bed explains why some people

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were charged with felonies in the context-

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Some people were worse.

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Yeah, and he gives a couple of categories.

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The people who got the felonies were either violent, they're taking part in a conspiracy,

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or they went into the House chamber.

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Those are the people who got it.

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The people who walked into the Capitol building-

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That's not true.

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It is true.

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No, it's not.

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It absolutely is true.

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I mean, I saw a specific example earlier-

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So, one or two-

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conspiracy.

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Give me that example.

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What did he do?

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Thomas Caldwell.

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What did he do?

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He was not violent, and he did not go into the Capitol.

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He didn't go-

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Oh, it's Shroyer.

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What did he do?

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What did he do?

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What did he do?

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That was his conviction.

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That was his conviction.

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Let's talk about-

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He did not go in the Capitol.

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Let's talk about Thomas Caldwell for a minute.

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I want to hear about that.

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I'm a reporter.

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And then also, real quick, to Glenn's point, keep in mind that when you're saying that

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BLM wasn't treated the same because of the government and how they were- you're not just

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alleging the federal government at that point, you're alleging every single state government

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and city municipality that's in charge of arresting people are all on the same page-

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I'm not saying that.

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The feds were on the prosecution.

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In terms of unfair-

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Almost all of us in D.C.

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Wait, the feds were in charge of prosecuting everybody in every state?

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Thomas Caldwell was part of the-

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Hold up.

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He was part of the conspiracy by the Oath Keepers.

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Let Glenn come in, and then I want to hear about-

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That's why he got charged with a felony.

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Go for it, Glenn.

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When Black Lives Matter happened, every single blue state mayor and every single blue state

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governor weighed in on the side of the riders because they were petrified of being demonized

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as being racist, that they didn't support everything the Black Lives Matter movement

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did.

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Oh yeah, totally.

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Yeah, I remember that clearly.

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So much support.

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So Bed lays out three groups of people who would have gotten felonies, and Darren replies

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that he has a counterexample, which is someone who's in one of those groups, namely a person

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who was involved in the seditious conspiracy.

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That's just incoherent.

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Then Alex just starts yelling about Owen, who didn't get charged with a felony and only

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got arrested because he didn't do his community service for a previous offense, and then this

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thing just falls to shreds.

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But yeah, Destiny does bring up a good point, though, that if you're saying that all these

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BLM arrests and stuff are somehow... There's a conspiracy to not charge them, but do charge

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the federal people, you're saying that every local and state law... And that's kind of

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nuts.

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That's why you would overthrow the government.

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But it's also such a wildly extreme kind of conspiracy to suggest.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:14.020)

Totally, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:15.020)

And so Destiny tries to explain that that's not a rational thing to suggest.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:19.379)

The entire establishment was on the side of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:22.819)

The entire establishment hated the January 6th defendants.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:25.979)

That's the reality of our government that you don't understand because you think-

Unknown Speaker (03:03:29.659)

Yeah, the reality of our government that you don't understand is that police orders don't

Unknown Speaker (03:03:35.780)

come down from the federal government or even from the governors.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:39.459)

Policing is done at the municipal level.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:40.780)

The idea that governors are dictating- No, this is all... This is federal.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:42.780)

Yeah, no, the BLM rights are not all federally prosecuted.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:45.180)

These are state crimes that are happening within states.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:46.180)

Oh, this is a fatal bunch of money.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:47.180)

They're not happening within states.

Unknown Speaker (03:03:49.020)

The idea that the governors themselves, the governors are dictating, the governors themselves

Unknown Speaker (03:03:53.600)

are dictating the policing policies to all of these different departments?

Unknown Speaker (03:03:57.219)

Where is the evidence of any of that?

Unknown Speaker (03:03:58.780)

One message, one email, one memorandum, one thing saying, don't arrest protesters.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:02.940)

Don't convict them, not a single shred of evidence.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:05.899)

How much do you love the police state?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:07.420)

Right?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:08.420)

So, what stories and isn't that weird?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:10.139)

That's the most you guys have.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:11.139)

I was against the police state and got arrested by George W. Bush against the Iraq war.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:15.139)

Why are we forgetting something?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:16.559)

We're forgetting one thing and that is that you can commit a crime, you can commit a felony

Unknown Speaker (03:04:21.500)

and it doesn't have to be violent.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:23.940)

That's a good point.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:25.940)

What?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:26.940)

Oh my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:27.940)

Just, Alex is on one.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:30.780)

It's, you know, interaction isn't necessarily going to be productive at this point.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:37.700)

I do think, honestly, as he's in this point, I don't think he can even keep his thoughts

Unknown Speaker (03:04:42.899)

straight.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:43.899)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:44.899)

And that's why he has to keep saying, since when does it last?

Unknown Speaker (03:04:46.340)

Because he needs to remember what his next thought is supposed to be.

Unknown Speaker (03:04:49.940)

It's partially to yell over destiny, but also to be like-

Unknown Speaker (03:04:52.879)

If he doesn't continue repeating that, he will forget what he was going to say, then

Unknown Speaker (03:04:58.180)

get distracted and say something completely different.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:01.020)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:02.020)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:03.020)

Let me ask you this.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:04.020)

How is that going over your head, Glenn?

Unknown Speaker (03:05:06.020)

Let me ask you this.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:07.020)

I'm asking you this and everybody.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:08.020)

Please answer my question.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:10.200)

Is this as bad as Pearl Harbor or is this as bad as 9-11?

Unknown Speaker (03:05:13.799)

And all I'm telling you is-

Unknown Speaker (03:05:14.799)

Let's do it.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:15.799)

Is-

Unknown Speaker (03:05:16.799)

Round table.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:17.799)

Who's going to go?

Unknown Speaker (03:05:18.799)

This Biden announcement that currently currently the number one threat is the Trump supporters

Unknown Speaker (03:05:24.940)

and Trump must be taken off the ballot.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:26.459)

You can punt to the Supreme Court, but they're literally trying to preclude Americans for

Unknown Speaker (03:05:30.420)

voting for who they want.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:32.360)

That's the election theft and our face.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:34.819)

Why do we have to keep going back to that?

Unknown Speaker (03:05:36.819)

That's the third time that question was asked and unanswered.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:38.700)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:39.700)

I mean, who cares?

Unknown Speaker (03:05:40.700)

They're taking somebody off the ballot.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:41.700)

It's no big deal.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:42.700)

I want to talk about Thomas-

Unknown Speaker (03:05:43.700)

Oh, boy.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:44.700)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:45.700)

So Alex, I mean, I just don't think that he's thinking very well.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:47.459)

He's clinging to these talking points pretty hard that he's focused on Biden's speech from

Unknown Speaker (03:05:51.579)

last night and the big gotcha of his January 6th as big as Pearl Harbor.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:55.340)

He seems like he's patting himself on the back for like getting that in our face.

Unknown Speaker (03:05:59.459)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:00.459)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:01.459)

Just landed that.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:02.459)

So much.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:03.459)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:04.459)

So you can hear there at the end, Ian is trying to get things back to this Thomas Caldwell

Unknown Speaker (03:06:09.219)

because that was somebody who Darren Beatty had brought up as someone who wasn't in the

Unknown Speaker (03:06:14.139)

Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:15.139)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:16.139)

He got charged with a felony.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:17.139)

And what do you know?

Unknown Speaker (03:06:18.139)

He doesn't want to get into the weeds.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:19.139)

Weird.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:20.139)

Let's talk about Thomas Caldwell and Darren, maybe you can answer this.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:21.780)

Who is he?

Unknown Speaker (03:06:22.780)

What did he do exactly?

Unknown Speaker (03:06:23.780)

And what was he charged with?

Unknown Speaker (03:06:24.780)

I mean, we don't need to get into that so extensively.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:28.459)

I was just saying, here is somebody who is not violent, who did not go into the Capitol,

Unknown Speaker (03:06:33.260)

who is charged with obstruction of an official proceeding.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:36.459)

No, seditious conspiracy.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:37.459)

Well, there was later a supersede.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:38.860)

Well.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:39.860)

That was a felony he was charged with.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:41.260)

Biden's entire campaign is January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:44.540)

Not inflation, not war with Russia, not open borders.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:47.860)

I mean, give me a break, man.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:49.299)

Give me a break.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:50.299)

He had a million plus people there, a few hundred got in fights with the cops.

Unknown Speaker (03:06:54.180)

And you act like it's the biggest thing since it's a pretty big deal when a president tries

Unknown Speaker (03:06:57.860)

to overturn a legitimate election.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:00.020)

That's a really big day.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:01.020)

And that's really good.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:02.700)

All your investigations, you lost every single one.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:05.379)

When you lose in court, you go to the next day, remember, remember, remember, remember

Unknown Speaker (03:07:11.420)

in 2016, when all the conservatives said, well, you know what, if we would have lost

Unknown Speaker (03:07:14.340)

the election, you know what we did on the next day, we would have went to work.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:16.819)

Well, here you are four years later, still crying about the outcome of the election.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:19.819)

So if Biden's going to win by landslide, why are the Democrats don't want him on the ballot?

Unknown Speaker (03:07:25.100)

The Supreme Court to decide.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:26.100)

Can I just say what my dream is?

Unknown Speaker (03:07:28.059)

My dream is that Ed and Brian and Destiny have to actually live through a real coup

Unknown Speaker (03:07:33.540)

so that they can...

Unknown Speaker (03:07:34.540)

Can I say what my dream is?

Unknown Speaker (03:07:35.540)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:36.540)

Legally?

Unknown Speaker (03:07:37.540)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:38.540)

I'm so sorry.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:39.540)

That clip right there is a great spiritual encapsulation of this entire debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:42.340)

You have Darren not wanting to get into the details about something he brought up but

Unknown Speaker (03:07:45.799)

thought no one else would know about.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:47.180)

You have Alex yelling nonsense, acting like he's on his own show instead of a debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:51.420)

You have Destiny trying to actually make a point amidst the nonsense, and you have Glenn

Unknown Speaker (03:07:54.780)

being a condescending dipshit.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:56.299)

You also have Bed sprinkled in there a little bit, doing fine.

Unknown Speaker (03:07:59.459)

He's doing his best.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:00.459)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:01.459)

But that's all-

Unknown Speaker (03:08:02.459)

They are doing their best.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:03.459)

This is it.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:04.459)

This is what the debate is in a one minute, 10 second chunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:07.899)

It really is, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:10.280)

It's almost in its way beautiful and fleeting.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:14.139)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:15.139)

It's a platonic ideal of wasting time.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:18.540)

Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:19.540)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:20.540)

That's as good as it's going to get, and we got it in a short bit.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:25.659)

Yeah, which is why I'm going to end up skipping a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:28.540)

But before I skip anything, Alex, once again, promises he's about to leave.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:33.340)

That sounds right.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:34.340)

Let me say this, and I'll shut up.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:35.340)

I will leave for 10 minutes.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:36.340)

I will leave.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:37.340)

Let me ask this one question to Glenn.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:38.340)

I want you all to answer this, humor me.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:40.979)

I agree, because Glenn is a really great writer.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:43.459)

I really respect him and have fallen for decades.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:45.739)

Can everyone describe a coup to me, because usually it's helicopters taking over media,

Unknown Speaker (03:08:50.540)

killing the opposition troops, and then you're claiming women with American flags and being

Unknown Speaker (03:08:55.340)

waved in by police is a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:08:57.520)

So define to me, all of you first, and then Glenn, and then the professor, what is a coup?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:04.299)

It sounds like someone needs a refill on his Tito's and another cigarette.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:07.379)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:08.379)

I'll say this is a great question from Alex, though, his version of a coup isn't necessarily

Unknown Speaker (03:09:12.379)

accurate, but it's a good question.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:14.700)

Three hours into this debate, someone is asking what the definition of a coup is.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:17.540)

Could you explain to me what it is we are talking about?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:20.100)

That is great, great stuff.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:22.100)

Now that we're... How long have we been doing?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:24.979)

So destiny- What are we talking about?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:26.899)

Destiny decides to answer Alex's question of what a coup is.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:29.700)

Destiny, God damn it.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:30.819)

And then watch Alex's reaction.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:33.260)

What is a coup?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:34.260)

Since this was the most devastating, evil coup ever, explain to me-

Unknown Speaker (03:09:37.260)

A coup is like enact a scheme to try to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:41.700)

Like rush a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:42.700)

Like rush a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:43.700)

No, they didn't take any action.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:44.700)

It was- They tried to remove him on a lie.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:47.659)

There's nothing illegal done there to try and remove-

Unknown Speaker (03:09:49.819)

The intelligence agencies censoring-

Unknown Speaker (03:09:51.819)

Impeachment is not illegal.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:52.819)

I'm saying dossiers?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:53.819)

Oh, that was illegal?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:54.819)

The dossier was- The dirty dossier.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:56.819)

The dirty dossier.

Unknown Speaker (03:09:57.819)

Was it legitimate?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:58.819)

Did they try to remove him?

Unknown Speaker (03:09:59.819)

They took it to Congress.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:00.819)

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:01.819)

Hold on.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:02.819)

You admit then that Trump tried a coup, and you think rush a coup was also a coup then?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:04.899)

Do you want to do it?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:05.899)

No, no, no, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:06.899)

No, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:07.899)

I don't agree Trump did a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:08.899)

I'm asking you- Wait, wait.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:09.899)

Fight on the merits- I'm asking you-

Unknown Speaker (03:10:11.899)

Fight on the merits then.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:12.899)

Do you know about Pinochet?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:13.899)

Fight on the merits.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:14.899)

Do you know about Hitler?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:15.899)

Fight on the merits.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:16.899)

Do you know about- Do you know about the-

Unknown Speaker (03:10:17.899)

Fight on the merits.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:18.899)

What is a coup?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:19.899)

Fight on the merits.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:20.899)

Hey.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:21.899)

Why don't you fight on the merits of the government-

Unknown Speaker (03:10:22.899)

You're the smart guy.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:23.899)

You know the answer to that, Destiny.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:24.899)

Focus on Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:26.139)

Find me a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:27.139)

I just did.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:28.139)

Did you not listen to him?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:29.139)

No, no, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:30.139)

Let her ring- No.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:31.139)

I thought we were going ring wall.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:32.139)

Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:33.139)

Just yelling and then insisting that Destiny provide a definition, which he already did

Unknown Speaker (03:10:37.420)

in the-

Unknown Speaker (03:10:38.420)

Let's go to Glenn.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:39.420)

Did you not hear me?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:40.420)

What?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:41.420)

I guess not.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:42.420)

So here's Glenn's definition of a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:44.420)

Why?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:45.420)

Well, why not?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:46.420)

Nah.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:47.420)

Well, let's thought we're going ring wall.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:49.420)

Glenn, you're a well-respected journalist.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:51.500)

You look at coups around the world.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:53.100)

What do they usually look like?

Unknown Speaker (03:10:55.579)

I know.

Unknown Speaker (03:10:56.579)

No, Destiny is now the incredible giant of journalism and the constitutional scholar.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:00.020)

I used to be, as Destiny said, but anyway, a coup is generally when people in power or

Unknown Speaker (03:11:04.979)

people who are trying to get into power marshal the force of the armed factions of that country

Unknown Speaker (03:11:09.379)

and use it to eliminate the legal process and take over.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:13.020)

So for example, if Trump had called in the military on his side on January 6th, or he

Unknown Speaker (03:11:17.219)

had gotten the military to block people from trying to remove him from office on January

Unknown Speaker (03:11:21.340)

20th, that is always what we say is a coup, nothing that looks like what happened on January

Unknown Speaker (03:11:26.059)

6th.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:27.059)

So that's not the definition of a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:28.059)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:29.059)

That's like the definition of maybe a military coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:30.059)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:31.059)

There are tons of different types of coup, many of which don't involve the military at

Unknown Speaker (03:11:33.500)

all, and many that don't require violence.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:35.219)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:36.219)

But the definition that Glenn is using that nothing other than taking control of the military

Unknown Speaker (03:11:39.979)

to stay in power is even describable as an attempted coup, which isn't a defensible position,

Unknown Speaker (03:11:44.219)

but that seems to be where the head is at, which is kind of a problem.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:49.780)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:11:51.379)

I mean, that is kind of where we're struggling with is because January 6th was stopped a

Unknown Speaker (03:11:59.540)

little bit too early for people to really understand what was going to have to happen

Unknown Speaker (03:12:06.500)

afterwards.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:07.500)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:08.500)

You know, it's not like... I understand.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:10.899)

The Capitol building is pretend.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:13.100)

It's just a building.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:14.100)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:15.100)

You know, we could all run into the Capitol building and just dance around and be like,

Unknown Speaker (03:12:19.620)

oh, we run the government.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:20.620)

That's not how the government works.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:21.620)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:22.620)

You know, the certification of the results is a ceremony.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:26.100)

It doesn't change the outcome of the election.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:28.579)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:29.579)

That could have been done at anywhere.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:30.579)

It could have been done at a Denny's.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:33.139)

You know, all of those things are available.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:35.559)

In order to then take over the country, there would have to have been follow-up shit going

Unknown Speaker (03:12:41.219)

down from Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:42.219)

Definitely.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:43.219)

That 10-day investigation would have involved Nancy Pelosi going to jail.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:47.700)

It would have been 10 nights of long nights.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:49.780)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:50.780)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:51.780)

It would have been nonstop consolidating the power that is taking control of, you know?

Unknown Speaker (03:12:58.340)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:12:59.340)

And when you say that it ended too early, it's like, no, thank God it did, but it ended

Unknown Speaker (03:13:04.700)

too early for us to actually be able to point to it and be like, this is what that was the

Unknown Speaker (03:13:10.840)

beginning of.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:11.840)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:12.840)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:13.840)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:14.840)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:15.840)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:16.840)

If this had gone on another day, Nancy Pelosi would have been hanging on television.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:17.840)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:18.840)

That is how it worked.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:19.840)

I think you're probably right.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:22.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:23.180)

So, Ian wants to go to questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:24.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:25.180)

And I imagine-

Unknown Speaker (03:13:26.180)

Smart.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:27.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:28.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:29.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:30.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:31.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:32.180)

Koos are militaries seizing the telecommunications and the government institutions and killing

Unknown Speaker (03:13:34.340)

their opposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:35.340)

You could do lots of different things.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:36.340)

Trump was in the New Orleans-

Unknown Speaker (03:13:37.340)

I mean, a federal judge said it was a coup.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:38.340)

Trump did not do that.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:39.340)

A bunch of fucking people being led into the Capitol is not a fricking coup, man.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:43.139)

A federal judge said otherwise.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:45.139)

But let's go on.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:46.440)

These are from ZeroHedge.com from some of the premium users of the website.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:49.379)

Oh, good.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:50.379)

These are going to be great questions, I imagine.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:52.680)

Premium users of ZeroHedge.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:54.020)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:55.020)

It's premium content, apparently.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:56.020)

Hmm.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:57.020)

Hmm.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:58.020)

Good.

Unknown Speaker (03:13:59.020)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:00.020)

The question is, the New York Times acknowledged that there were FBI informants in the Capitol

Unknown Speaker (03:14:03.219)

on January 6th, and then they give a link to the New York Times article.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:07.219)

Given the agency's history of entrapment, is it a stretch that some agents may have

Unknown Speaker (03:14:11.440)

provoked the riot?

Unknown Speaker (03:14:13.079)

And then there's a follow-up question.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:14.979)

Why was law enforcement so ill-prepared for the insurrection, in quotes, despite the presence

Unknown Speaker (03:14:20.100)

of informants?

Unknown Speaker (03:14:21.100)

So, the first part of the question is, is it a stretch that some agents may have provoked

Unknown Speaker (03:14:25.540)

the riot?

Unknown Speaker (03:14:26.540)

So, informants are something the FBI has been using for years, decades.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:31.700)

Is it illegal?

Unknown Speaker (03:14:32.700)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:33.700)

They can do it as long as they do it within the legal means.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:36.700)

If an informant is in the Capitol, that doesn't mean that the FBI is behind it.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:43.219)

Informants are also people who live their lives.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:45.780)

Like, I could be an informant for the FBI, I could go and murder somebody.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:49.059)

That doesn't mean the FBI had me murder that person.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:51.979)

So, I think there's a lot of misinformation there that gets conflated with facts.

Unknown Speaker (03:14:58.340)

And number two...

Unknown Speaker (03:14:59.340)

Is that the other guy?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:01.340)

Do I think it's possible that an FBI agent could have done that?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:04.260)

Sure, anything's possible, but put out the evidence.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:06.860)

There is an evidence of this.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:08.340)

The whole Ray Epps thing, show us the evidence that he actually worked for the FBI.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:13.180)

He just said, I always read it.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:14.180)

I robbed the bank.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:15.180)

Come and arrest me.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:16.180)

Should I get arrested?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:17.180)

I just said I robbed the bank.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:18.180)

He just said, I always read it.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:19.180)

You're right.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:20.180)

He just said, I always read it.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:21.180)

He's a FBI agent.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:22.180)

You guys are just coming to that conclusion.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:23.180)

We're not saying he works for them.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:24.180)

Probably.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:25.180)

If I had to guess, I'd say Southern Poverty Law Center.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:27.180)

If Ray Epps set them up, why isn't a single other person there attested to that?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:32.020)

Out of the 250,000.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:33.020)

If he whispered into people's ears, if he was leading breach teams, why didn't any of

Unknown Speaker (03:15:34.979)

the arrestees...

Unknown Speaker (03:15:35.979)

If he's on video doing it.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:36.979)

Why didn't a single person come out?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:37.979)

I'm asking why.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:38.979)

I'm asking this, though.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:39.979)

The next reasonable question.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:40.979)

Why isn't a single person come out of testing?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:41.979)

Because we exposed him, because he's the leader there, and he's there doing it.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:47.299)

He did it on video.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:48.299)

He said, I led this.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:49.379)

I did this.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:50.379)

You're answering my question.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:51.379)

I'm saying, why doesn't anyone else come out and attested to this?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:54.299)

Not a single person.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:55.379)

You know what an orchestra is, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:15:57.379)

You know what an orchestra is.

Unknown Speaker (03:15:58.780)

The conductor leads the symphony.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:00.819)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:01.819)

And all the musicians have to see the conductor and will tell you, that's my conductor.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:04.180)

And he says, go into the Capitol.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:05.180)

Why doesn't anybody else say, that was my conductor.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:09.180)

You get the sense from this first question that maybe they're going to be not so much

Unknown Speaker (03:16:14.100)

pointed against Alex's side.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:15.860)

No, no, no, no, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:17.059)

Maybe a percentage nearing 100 of the Zero Hedge Premium subscribers are on one side

Unknown Speaker (03:16:20.979)

of the issue.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:21.979)

Could be.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:22.979)

Good on bed for just putting it bluntly that the idea of some kind of fed plot could have

Unknown Speaker (03:16:26.420)

been behind J6, since anything is possible, but they haven't provided any evidence.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:30.780)

It's good that he doesn't have to follow an impulse to pretend to say it's not impossible.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:35.139)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:36.139)

So that position would back him into a corner that he couldn't deal with.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:38.540)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:39.540)

Alex is pretty drunk, though.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:40.899)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:41.899)

That can also back you into a corner that you can't deal with.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:44.180)

Especially when you're dealing with someone who likes to fuck around and is pretty sharp.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:48.379)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:49.379)

So the second part of that question was about unpreparedness.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:51.540)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:52.540)

The FBI, or the law enforcement's unpreparedness.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:54.940)

Yeah, which actually is a good question.

Unknown Speaker (03:16:57.059)

It is, and Destiny has a decent answer here, but then Alex, oh my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:01.979)

This was one of the more shocking moments, I think, in the entire debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:05.739)

Okay, I'm listening.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:06.739)

I think the ill preparedness came because Trump's deployment of the National Guard in

Unknown Speaker (03:17:09.860)

the past, especially in DC, had caused a lot of people to be uncomfortable with National

Unknown Speaker (03:17:13.360)

Guard being present in the Capitol when the certification of vote was happening.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:16.739)

So as they were having conversations prior to establishing security, I think they took

Unknown Speaker (03:17:20.659)

a lot of extraordinary bureaucratic measures to make it so that, I think that day, if the

Unknown Speaker (03:17:24.819)

National Guard was going to be deployed, it either had to be, I think, Miller or Walker.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:29.100)

I think one of those two had to be the direct authorization of people for it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:31.540)

Let me respond briefly.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:32.899)

Which is novel.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:33.899)

We have you one hour ago saying Trump never called for National Guard, and you just said

Unknown Speaker (03:17:41.260)

they refused it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:42.260)

I got your ass.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:43.420)

That's correct.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:44.420)

You got it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:45.420)

You got it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:46.420)

So when the National Guard was deployed, the only area that they were allowed to do-

Unknown Speaker (03:17:50.420)

Oh my God, they blocked it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:51.420)

The Pentagon blocked Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:52.420)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:53.420)

You just admitted Trump wanted it and didn't get it.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:54.819)

You got me.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:55.819)

I got your ass.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:56.819)

They only deployed 340 people.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:57.819)

Because you were different from an hour ago.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:58.819)

You said it wasn't true.

Unknown Speaker (03:17:59.819)

That's right.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:00.819)

You got me.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:01.819)

Got him.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:02.819)

Got him.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:03.819)

You want to do these like-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:04.819)

The scope of the mission-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:05.819)

Dunkings.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:06.819)

You know, this is why Ashley Babbit got shot.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:07.819)

You realize that, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:18:08.819)

I'm going to get shot?

Unknown Speaker (03:18:09.819)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:10.819)

People like Ashley Babbit died because of people like you driving people onto this,

Unknown Speaker (03:18:11.819)

and it's going to be funny for you.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:12.819)

I don't know if it's-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:13.819)

I murdered Ashley Babbit?

Unknown Speaker (03:18:14.819)

You're more or less responsible with this kind of talk, yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:16.340)

Oh my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:17.340)

I murdered-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:18.340)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:19.340)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:20.340)

Play in a factual world.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:21.340)

You love the-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:22.340)

It looks like tie yourself to the ground.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:23.340)

You said an hour ago, you said an hour ago that Trump never asked for National Guard.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:26.979)

I can show 50 articles that's on record, and then you just admitted it.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:30.819)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:31.819)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:32.819)

Guys, guys.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:33.819)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:34.819)

So here's the thing.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:35.819)

340 people were authorized to be there, but in order to actually call them, it was an

Unknown Speaker (03:18:41.340)

extraordinary process.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:42.340)

When you read the J6 Committee in the Situation Room and everybody else complaining, where's

Unknown Speaker (03:18:45.780)

the National Guard?

Unknown Speaker (03:18:46.780)

Where's the National Guard?

Unknown Speaker (03:18:47.780)

There was a whole bunch of stupid bureaucratic red tape and optics concerns that people had

Unknown Speaker (03:18:50.579)

to cut through to get them there.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:51.579)

So if you believe the official story and the 15 to 20 people-

Unknown Speaker (03:18:54.020)

One hour ago, he said Trump never won National Guard.

Unknown Speaker (03:18:57.340)

Now Trump won it, but he didn't get it for a good reason.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:00.579)

Gold.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:01.579)

Gold.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:02.579)

Gold.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:03.579)

So yeah, I was pretty surprised that Destiny pulled out the year the reason Ashley Babbit

Unknown Speaker (03:19:06.979)

got shot.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:07.979)

I was a little surprised there too.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:09.979)

I generally would say that's not productive, but in a situation like this, let it go.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:14.700)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:15.700)

Let it fly.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:16.700)

Let it fly.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:17.700)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:18.700)

What do you have to lose?

Unknown Speaker (03:19:19.700)

You're almost never going to be in a position like this.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:22.659)

He's clearly getting needled by Alex.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:24.379)

I would call him so many more names.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:26.899)

I would have been so much meaner.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:28.860)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:29.860)

So there's a big dunk there for Alex, but I think he's just drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:34.219)

That would have been so fun.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:35.319)

And the fact that if... Okay, all right, I understand that we're dealing with Ian,

Unknown Speaker (03:19:41.639)

the moderator.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:42.639)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:43.639)

So it's not a moderator.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:44.639)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:45.639)

But you got to figure even the most un-moderator moderator only allows you three woos.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:51.500)

Woo!

Unknown Speaker (03:19:52.500)

Only three!

Unknown Speaker (03:19:53.500)

Unless you're Ric Flair.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:55.500)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:56.500)

Well, I mean, obviously.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:57.500)

And then you've got to let it go.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:58.500)

But I mean, there's no debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:19:59.500)

That man is going to woo.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:00.500)

There's no debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:02.420)

Or if you're Jeffrey Osborne.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:05.420)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:06.420)

You know who that is?

Unknown Speaker (03:20:07.420)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:08.420)

He had a song called, Can You Woo Woo Woo?

Unknown Speaker (03:20:09.420)

It's a good song.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:10.420)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:11.420)

So Bed asks, this is where things like, I think of like, I would say minute three things

Unknown Speaker (03:20:19.879)

were off the rails.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:20.879)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:21.879)

Like on our last episode.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:22.879)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:23.879)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:24.879)

I was going to agree with you.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:25.879)

But here is where things have just broken the pinata.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:26.879)

And like Destiny has said, you're the reason that Ashley Pappen got shot.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:30.459)

And now Bed is emboldened to just go after Alex.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:35.059)

Oh no.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:36.059)

Oh no.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:37.059)

Here we go, Bed.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:38.059)

So you're claiming that this is staged.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:39.059)

You're claiming the FBI was behind it.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:41.739)

In 2019, you specifically said, I almost had like a form of psychosis where I thought everything

Unknown Speaker (03:20:51.899)

was staged.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:53.379)

So do you still have that psychosis?

Unknown Speaker (03:20:54.979)

Well, I said almost a form.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:57.340)

So you almost still have that form of psychosis.

Unknown Speaker (03:20:59.340)

Let me, let me, that's out of a larger context about when you're alive in a court deposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:05.979)

I said a larger context.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:10.340)

You said you called Sandy hooks a hoax and you said it was fake because of this.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:14.860)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:15.860)

So you want me to talk now?

Unknown Speaker (03:21:16.860)

Okay, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:17.860)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:18.860)

So I said a larger context, which is a larger five hours, eight hour deposition, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:21:22.299)

I just told the truth.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:23.299)

I said a larger context.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:24.420)

I'm explaining that the public's been lied to so much.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:27.780)

There's a major loss in confidence where people then don't believe anything they're told and

Unknown Speaker (03:21:31.780)

that's dangerous.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:32.780)

That's not what you said.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:33.780)

That's not the context you said it.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:35.100)

That's not the context you said it.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:36.340)

I know what I said.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:37.340)

But I read it.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:38.340)

I read the deposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:39.340)

So put the full thing out.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:40.340)

This doesn't look good for Alex because even Bed is kind of making fun of him.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:43.579)

Yeah, that's no good.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:44.579)

Obviously, Alex is half right about the context of the quote, but he's half lying.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:48.100)

He was talking about how the media lies so people don't believe what they're told, but

Unknown Speaker (03:21:50.940)

he was also talking about himself and how that turned into a form of psychosis where

Unknown Speaker (03:21:54.899)

he believed that everything was staged.

Unknown Speaker (03:21:57.459)

He still has that exact same relationship with reality that he did in 2012 when the

Unknown Speaker (03:22:00.979)

shooting happened at Sandy Hook and as he did in that deposition at that same time.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:05.559)

Whether or not the term psychosis is appropriate is another matter altogether.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:09.739)

But I do love how Alex is demanding that Bed cite the entire deposition in order for him

Unknown Speaker (03:22:13.540)

to accept any of it.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:14.540)

Release the whole deposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:15.540)

Release all eight hours.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:16.540)

Alex has been dancing around most of this interview not providing sources for anything

Unknown Speaker (03:22:19.979)

and just gloating about how Twitter is going to get you and give you a source tomorrow.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:24.180)

It's ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:25.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:27.659)

Give me the full deposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:28.659)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:29.659)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:30.659)

Recite the deposition.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:31.659)

I think genuinely the smartest thing to do at this debate for the Krasenstein would have

Unknown Speaker (03:22:41.340)

been moment one, just bring up Sandy Hook and then let Alex just try and defend himself

Unknown Speaker (03:22:47.020)

into a spiral.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:48.020)

Well, maybe, but that's kind of disrespectful to the invitation, I guess.

Unknown Speaker (03:22:53.219)

It's unguessed like to like you're having a debate about January 6th, then you open

Unknown Speaker (03:22:58.260)

it up with J6 or with Sandy Hook.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:00.379)

I'm just saying that you could get it in there early and you could even fit it in however

Unknown Speaker (03:23:05.100)

you want in a less terrible way and it's just going to make him spiral.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:09.100)

He's not going to be able to hang.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:10.739)

Speaking of which.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:12.020)

Which is what we're about to listen to.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:13.180)

So put the full thing out.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:14.299)

I don't have it with me, but I read it.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:15.739)

The point is stopped.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:16.739)

Somebody Google it.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:17.739)

You're scared to let me talk?

Unknown Speaker (03:23:18.739)

Oh, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:19.739)

So, so that's a whole nother PR firm thing.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:24.219)

Things out of context to blow that stuff up.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:26.020)

All that.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:27.020)

The PR firm is telling you what you say in court on the road?

Unknown Speaker (03:23:29.219)

No, no, you're not.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:30.219)

You're not listening.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:31.219)

Let me finish the short question and then we're going to go back to the user's question.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:34.780)

Madeleine Albright told Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes, I ordered 500,000 children killed

Unknown Speaker (03:23:40.620)

because I thought it was a good thing to do, I'd do it again.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:42.659)

She's a great person.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:43.959)

I questioned Jussie Smollett.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:46.079)

I questioned WMDs in Iraq.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:47.639)

I questioned everything.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:48.899)

And I'm proud of everything I've done.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:50.379)

And all that stuff is PR firm garbage.

Unknown Speaker (03:23:52.540)

When I talk about the general public, because the media lies about almost everything, loses

Unknown Speaker (03:23:58.659)

trust in anything, that creates a general form of psychosis.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:03.739)

And it's very dangerous.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:04.739)

I'm about that every day on my show.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:06.360)

And Joe Rogan just last week said, you know, Alex Jones isn't totally right, but he means

Unknown Speaker (03:24:10.979)

to be right.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:12.159)

He's more informative than CNN.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:15.180)

They lie on purpose.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:16.840)

When the public has lost trust in the system, that's dangerous.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:20.979)

What do you do?

Unknown Speaker (03:24:22.260)

So that was the full discussion.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:25.299)

Let me give you another example.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:26.299)

They say, no, Jones and a customer said, I'm who is allowing this?

Unknown Speaker (03:24:32.340)

What is wrong with you word for that?

Unknown Speaker (03:24:34.139)

I didn't say that.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:35.239)

They wanted to put like now a 15 year old video back then, it was like a nine year old

Unknown Speaker (03:24:38.340)

video of me as the joker saying all these horrible things.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:44.180)

Take drugs, kids, you'll die.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:45.739)

That's great.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:46.739)

So kids wouldn't take drugs.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:47.739)

No, you're one of them.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:48.739)

Not take psych.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:49.739)

I mean, what is happening?

Unknown Speaker (03:24:50.739)

They wanted to introduce that in court.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:52.299)

Go to bed, pops.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:53.299)

Jesus.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:54.299)

Like this is ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:55.299)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:56.299)

I've been smeared.

Unknown Speaker (03:24:57.299)

You know what?

Unknown Speaker (03:24:58.299)

In my head, the moment he got into what, like five words into it, I immediately went back

Unknown Speaker (03:25:06.840)

to like nineties movies.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:08.500)

And just in my brain, somebody screamed food fight and people started throwing food at

Unknown Speaker (03:25:15.260)

each other.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:16.260)

And that made way more sense to me.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:18.020)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:19.020)

But you know, Alex is at that point of like his adrenaline and booze ish a cycle where

Unknown Speaker (03:25:24.739)

it's like, it's not as amped at the moment.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:28.659)

And he's like, Oh, I've been smeared by all these PR firms and he needs the bathroom and

Unknown Speaker (03:25:33.940)

a long pinky nail, if you know what I mean?

Unknown Speaker (03:25:36.459)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:37.459)

So the reason the bed is bringing this up is not so much to be like, Hey, you said all

Unknown Speaker (03:25:41.420)

this shit about Sandy Hook.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:43.059)

It's more to illustrate that Alex lied directly to bed on the Twitter space, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:25:49.100)

Elon Musk when they were talking about Sandy Hook.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:51.620)

So he tries to explain this and then bedlam.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:54.260)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:25:55.260)

I mean that Twitter space with you with Elon Musk, what, what was it four months ago, four

Unknown Speaker (03:25:59.879)

weeks ago or so.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:01.659)

And you tried to claim that you didn't push the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:06.680)

You we're getting a field here.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:09.500)

I'm basing this on the whole psychosis thing.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:11.899)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:12.899)

Greenwalt doesn't want to talk about it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:13.899)

This is not in the scope of the discussion.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:15.700)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:16.700)

We really got to stick with the question on the user's question.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:19.700)

You lied in that space.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:21.420)

You did push.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:22.420)

Was the Gulf of Tonkin in there?

Unknown Speaker (03:26:24.219)

You did.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:25.219)

I have the quote right here.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:26.219)

Let me read the quote.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:27.219)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:28.219)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:29.219)

Ed, we're done.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:30.219)

We're done.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:31.219)

I want to hear from Glenn.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:32.219)

Glenn's about to speak.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:33.219)

I got to say this right now.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:34.219)

Let me finish.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:35.219)

Coward.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:36.219)

I said in the context of everything I've done, I wasn't the platform for questioning

Unknown Speaker (03:26:40.860)

a school shooting.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:42.219)

They dredged that up afterwards and I barely ever talked about it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:44.780)

It wasn't even on our radar.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:46.780)

But you said it was fake.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:47.780)

No, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:48.780)

If I'm on the airport-

Unknown Speaker (03:26:49.780)

You said after examining it for a year, you found that it was fake.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:53.059)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:54.059)

You know what?

Unknown Speaker (03:26:55.059)

That's it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:56.059)

That's it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:57.059)

That's it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:58.059)

That's it.

Unknown Speaker (03:26:59.059)

We're done with this fucking conversation.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:00.059)

We're moving on to the user questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:01.059)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:02.059)

That's some aggressive moderation.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:03.059)

Now I'm on his team.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:05.860)

Now a weird thing the bed should have done is instead of talking about Alex, what he

Unknown Speaker (03:27:12.620)

said about Sandy Hook, but like, hey, remember when you were interviewed by Glenn Greenwald

Unknown Speaker (03:27:16.440)

and you said you were drunk when he said these things about the families?

Unknown Speaker (03:27:19.180)

Hey Glenn, you were there, confirmed that Alex said he was drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:26.020)

And you just laughed.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:27.020)

On air.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:28.139)

And you were stoked about it because, and let me remind you, you're a great journalist.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:32.700)

Yes, very much so.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:34.260)

So speaking of great journalists, Glenn chimes in here because Ian has screamed and quieted

Unknown Speaker (03:27:40.379)

the room.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:41.379)

We're done with this fucking conversation.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:42.379)

I feel like when you're a good moderator, you never have to get to that level.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:45.579)

Shouldn't have to scream.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:46.579)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:47.579)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:48.579)

Shouldn't have to like essentially verbally pull out a bat.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:50.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:51.180)

At the very least, you shouldn't have to resort to fucking.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:54.299)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:55.299)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:56.299)

So anyway, here's Glenn.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:57.299)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:58.299)

We're moving on to the user questions as told.

Unknown Speaker (03:27:59.299)

Glenn, you had something to say?

Unknown Speaker (03:28:00.940)

Glenn, please.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:01.940)

Yeah, well first of all, I want to say that we are out of time here because it's been

Unknown Speaker (03:28:04.819)

three hours, but I did just want to say, I do think that attack on Alex is a bullshit

Unknown Speaker (03:28:08.500)

attack.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:09.500)

We are here because we want to talk about January 6th, we want to talk about whether

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this is an insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:13.219)

We're talking about something.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:14.219)

And to try and make it about Alex when there are six people here presenting all kinds of

Unknown Speaker (03:28:19.340)

evidence that you're not equipped to deal with, I think is just a pathetic way to try

Unknown Speaker (03:28:23.379)

and end this debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:24.379)

And the last thing I want to say is it's really given like a kind of amazingly vivid mindset

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into the minds of Trump era liberals who have really come to see the US security state and

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the courts and prosecutors as their political allies in their war that they're waging against

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people who disagree with them.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:41.360)

And they have this like very romanticized view of what the FBI is, what the DOJ is,

Unknown Speaker (03:28:46.260)

how the court systems work, how the federal government works.

Unknown Speaker (03:28:49.280)

And all of this reveals this so well because what's happening here is so manifest, which

Unknown Speaker (03:28:53.700)

is that all of these agencies are being abused because the Trump movement is considered the

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gravest threat to establishment power in this country, which is why the bipartisan establishment

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is against it.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:04.079)

To try and make this about Alex and Sandy Hook is a really pathetic way to end the debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:08.219)

I think you guys have done a good job defending your views.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:11.260)

I think you should leave it at that.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:12.659)

We definitely have to go because it's been three hours.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:15.139)

We're not done.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:16.139)

We're going to keep talking.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:17.139)

We're not done.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:18.139)

Not right now.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:19.139)

Can I answer the user's question?

Unknown Speaker (03:29:20.139)

I would love to, but give me one second.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:21.739)

The only reason I scream is because I don't have a mute button for the people right now.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:26.059)

I would prefer not to have to use my voice.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:28.420)

I think you did a great job.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:29.420)

Thank you.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:30.420)

I really appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:31.420)

I think Glenn needs to go.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:32.420)

We'll stay.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:33.420)

Glenn, give us a three minute closing comment.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:35.899)

All I'm trying to say is- Glenn, give us a three minute closing comment,

Unknown Speaker (03:29:39.260)

but I'm going to keep talking.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:40.260)

Oh my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:41.260)

So I was thinking about, first of all, Glenn is saying is sort of closing the comments

Unknown Speaker (03:29:47.100)

as he did the entire debate, condescending as hell.

Unknown Speaker (03:29:50.059)

But I was thinking about Ian's shutting that down so aggressively, and I thought that was

Unknown Speaker (03:29:55.860)

strange because I've not seen that in any other point-

Unknown Speaker (03:29:59.299)

Debate ever?

Unknown Speaker (03:30:00.299)

No, or in this debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:01.299)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:02.299)

True.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:03.299)

So Zero Hedge is the subscription service that's paying for this debate, and coincidentally,

Unknown Speaker (03:30:06.739)

they are also why Alex got sued, though indirectly.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:10.059)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:11.059)

That is true.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:12.059)

Owen Schroyer's source that he expanded on in his video that defamed Neal Hesseland was

Unknown Speaker (03:30:15.540)

an article that was published on Zero Hedge.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:17.819)

Alex then replayed that video and discussed the story on his own show, mirroring claims

Unknown Speaker (03:30:21.379)

about Hesseland and his murdered child.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:24.299)

Had it not been for this, it's likely that the statute of limitations would not have

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allowed the families to sue Alex, though their pain and suffering because of his actions

Unknown Speaker (03:30:30.920)

still continued.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:31.920)

That is true.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:32.920)

Zero Hedge posted that article as an attack on Hesseland appearing on Meg and Kelly's

Unknown Speaker (03:30:36.420)

show, which also featured an interview with Alex.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:38.700)

Owen and Alex picked it up in order to help defend themselves, and in doing so, got themselves

Unknown Speaker (03:30:42.959)

in the soup.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:43.959)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:44.959)

That's a complicated ass relationship that underlies this debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:47.700)

Really?

Unknown Speaker (03:30:48.700)

I don't necessarily think that someone told Ian he needed to shut this down right away,

Unknown Speaker (03:30:52.059)

just in case Bed was gonna bring up Zero Hedge's role in Alex's suit, but he was very forceful.

Unknown Speaker (03:30:57.659)

More so than at any time in this debate, but I think the most likely explanation, I don't

Unknown Speaker (03:31:02.540)

think that that's what's happening.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:03.540)

No, no, no, no.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:04.540)

I think that a producer probably was telling him to get to questions, though, and shut

Unknown Speaker (03:31:07.479)

this down because they had promised subscribers that they could ask questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:11.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:12.819)

This is 100%.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:13.819)

This is so far off track.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:14.819)

100% A, we told people to spend money for this, and now we are not giving it to them.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:21.659)

That's bad business.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:22.659)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:23.659)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:24.659)

So Bed tries to just come in and be like, look, I'm trying to illustrate that he lied

Unknown Speaker (03:31:28.219)

to me.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:29.219)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:30.219)

And this is an indication of trustworthiness.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:31.940)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:32.940)

And then Alex lies.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:34.540)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:35.540)

The reason I went back to that is because in that Twitter space, you said that you didn't

Unknown Speaker (03:31:40.659)

push it.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:41.659)

You said that you just regurgitated other people's information.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:46.420)

And that's not true.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:47.420)

Because you told me.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:48.420)

No, that's not true.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:49.420)

I want to shut this down.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:50.420)

I don't want to move to the next thing.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:51.420)

It's not that I'm scared of this.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:52.420)

I'm sick of it.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:53.420)

I know.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:54.420)

I didn't make my bones on this.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:55.420)

You are scared.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:56.420)

I barely ever talked about it.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:57.420)

I just wanted you to correct me.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:58.420)

That wasn't true.

Unknown Speaker (03:31:59.420)

They introduced 22 minutes in these court cases over a decade.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:01.420)

Twenty-two minutes, dude.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:02.940)

No, I didn't.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:04.299)

That's not what I'm doing.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:05.420)

You guys bring it up.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:06.420)

And fine.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:07.420)

Hey, Madeleine Albright said she killed 500,000 kids.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:10.340)

She'd do it again.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:11.340)

No kids.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:12.340)

I'm sick.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:13.340)

Come on, guys.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:14.340)

This is cheap as fuck.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:15.340)

Let's talk about what the people are paying.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:16.340)

We have questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:17.340)

We have some legitimate people.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:19.340)

Glenn says he wants to leave.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:20.659)

I love Glenn Greenwald.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:21.659)

That's okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:22.659)

Glenn's gone.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:23.659)

Glenn's gone.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:24.659)

So we're going to be forced to hang out with me tonight.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:25.659)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:26.659)

We're going to the second question.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:27.659)

Darren, did you want to follow up?

Unknown Speaker (03:32:28.659)

I wanted to answer the user's question.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:29.659)

I'm sure you did.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:30.659)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:31.659)

So I've never been more sure of anything than Glenn was getting paid by the hour.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:35.020)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:36.020)

He shut that down faster than my therapist when time is up.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:38.379)

We're at three hours.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:39.379)

Got to go.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:40.379)

He didn't even really say goodbye.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:41.860)

It was just like, it's been three hours.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:43.700)

That's what I signed up for.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:44.700)

Good luck with your dumb subscriber questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:46.819)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:47.819)

That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:48.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:49.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:50.819)

That was a power move.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:51.819)

If there is any kind of payoff to this long time of this fucking episode that we're doing,

Unknown Speaker (03:32:56.500)

it is just that Glenn Greenwald is just like, I'm out.

Unknown Speaker (03:32:59.700)

Fuck this.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:00.700)

Man.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:01.700)

Because you and I even talked about why would anybody stick around for something this unproductive?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:04.979)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:05.979)

And Glenn leaving at the three hour mark.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:08.299)

That tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:10.420)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:11.420)

I signed up for three hours.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:12.420)

Oh, we'll stick around.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:13.420)

Well, because they're there.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:14.420)

Ah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:15.420)

It might be more glaring for them to walk out.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:16.420)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:17.420)

Glenn can turn off the cameras and be like, fuck this.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:19.219)

That was the idea.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:20.780)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:21.780)

So Destiny and Darren pick things up a little bit with the question of like, hey, it seems

Unknown Speaker (03:33:27.899)

like every source of information that you don't like is biased, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:32.459)

That's kind of the way this is going.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:33.899)

It tends to be the case.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:34.899)

That's how the game works.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:35.899)

Why wouldn't McCarthy put any Republicans on the J6 committee and investigate this?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:40.180)

Well, McCarthy isn't exactly someone who's aggressively interested in pursuing the truth

Unknown Speaker (03:33:45.219)

on this either.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:46.219)

OK.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:47.219)

Why not?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:48.219)

Why not?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:49.219)

Why not?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:50.219)

Like a special counsel or appoint something separate than from Congress?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:51.500)

Well, I think that would be a fantastic idea.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:53.860)

But again, Trump do it.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:55.459)

Why didn't Trump do it?

Unknown Speaker (03:33:56.540)

Trump's not in a position to do it.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:57.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:33:58.819)

But after right after J6, before he gets kicked out, well, I mean, why not on the days before

Unknown Speaker (03:34:01.860)

if he thinks that there's I mean, there is this was there is not a really window of opportunity

Unknown Speaker (03:34:06.059)

for that to happen.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:07.059)

A lot of other stuff is going on, doesn't it?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:09.540)

Doesn't it suck then that like you can provide absolutely no smoking?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:13.139)

I provided a ton of evidence.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:14.819)

No smoking does.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:15.819)

I provided overwhelming evidence, not provided evidence for anything.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:18.659)

You get overwhelming.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:19.659)

You've given a lot of stories.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:20.700)

And now you've got an issue with six foot three way that you might actually discover

Unknown Speaker (03:34:24.579)

what happened.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:25.579)

Now, I've never long accountable McCarthy.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:27.700)

I've been a longer proponent for an investigative committee, but not the sham J6 committee.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:31.979)

Well, they tried.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:32.979)

They tried.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:33.979)

No, the J6 committee.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:34.979)

So why is the J6 committee a sham?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:36.340)

I can.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:37.340)

Well, you really want to hear a good faith answer to that?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:39.299)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:40.299)

Why is partisan?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:41.299)

Well, let's start with Benny Thompson now.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:42.860)

Now the answer is no.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:43.860)

All the people on it were all partisan.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:45.920)

That's true.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:46.920)

But that's McCarthy.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:47.920)

But that's because McCarthy wouldn't put forth his nominees after Pelosi said no to two of

Unknown Speaker (03:34:53.020)

five.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:54.020)

Well, first of all, I think those two should have been allowed.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:56.379)

I'm not asking you that.

Unknown Speaker (03:34:57.379)

I'm asking why didn't McCarthy put forth two other ones?

Unknown Speaker (03:34:59.379)

Because he didn't want to legitimize a process that was totally illegitimate.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:03.899)

So how convenient for you, then, that now we can also say the entire J6 committee has

Unknown Speaker (03:35:08.100)

hundreds of...

Unknown Speaker (03:35:09.100)

No, it's not convenient.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:10.100)

It's not convenient for me.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:11.100)

None of the evidence we could point to.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:12.100)

It is convenient for the regime.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:13.100)

No, it's convenient for you.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:14.100)

It's convenient for the regime not to have a legitimate and disinterested fact finding

Unknown Speaker (03:35:19.459)

commission to truly get to the bottom of the real questions that matter in relation to

Unknown Speaker (03:35:23.979)

January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:24.979)

But there is no disinterested fact finding.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:26.459)

You guys say Comey was biased, even though he was a lifelong Republican.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:29.219)

You say Raffensperger was biased, even though he's a lifelong Republican.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:32.459)

You guys say that Barr was biased, even though he's been a lifelong Trump supporter and a

Unknown Speaker (03:35:36.180)

Republican.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:37.180)

Yeah, you say Ray is biased.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:38.420)

Like every single person he can...

Unknown Speaker (03:35:39.659)

Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:40.659)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:41.659)

So then there are no unbiased facts findings.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:42.659)

I didn't say there are none.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:43.659)

I meant the specific names you mentioned, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:45.659)

William Barr.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:46.659)

Annie Barr.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:47.659)

And any other names that you would have mentioned at any given point in time.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:51.920)

The only unbiased sources are those who have explicit and blind following of Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:35:59.899)

Don't you get it?

Unknown Speaker (03:36:00.899)

That was incredible.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:01.899)

It is.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:02.899)

That was a beautiful moment.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:06.180)

That truly was.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:07.260)

And it only gets better because destiny asks a follow-up question I think is really good.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:12.059)

And that is like, who could do this?

Unknown Speaker (03:36:14.940)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:15.940)

Who could investigate this?

Unknown Speaker (03:36:16.940)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:17.940)

Who would be able to investigate this?

Unknown Speaker (03:36:21.680)

I think there are some people who could.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:23.260)

Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:24.260)

I think Jim Jordan who could.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:25.260)

Jim Jordan was there!

Unknown Speaker (03:36:26.260)

Jim Jordan was literally part of the investigation.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:30.899)

I would say for there to be a legitimate committee, it would have to include people who are genuinely

Unknown Speaker (03:36:37.219)

interested in pursuing not only the questions that Jenny Thompson and the hyper-partisan

Unknown Speaker (03:36:42.700)

Democrats wanted to find out, but people who are sympathetic to the other side who would

Unknown Speaker (03:36:46.979)

be willing to pursue the questions that I've raised and have been raised that were not

Unknown Speaker (03:36:52.020)

addressed at all in the committee.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:54.379)

Because all they were interested in was demonizing Trump and setting up a criminal proceeding

Unknown Speaker (03:36:58.799)

for Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:36:59.799)

They weren't interested in getting to the bottom of the questions.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:02.299)

Why was there uniquely poor security?

Unknown Speaker (03:37:04.600)

What was going on with the level of federal infiltration?

Unknown Speaker (03:37:07.399)

These questions are all asked as part of the 847-page report.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:10.399)

I invite you to read it at some point.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:12.299)

The reality is that Carson at any point could have put five Republicans that he chose on

Unknown Speaker (03:37:17.340)

that committee.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:18.340)

But because Nancy Pelosi said no to two of them, I think banks in Jordan that were actively

Unknown Speaker (03:37:23.059)

being investigated or would have been the subjects of the J-6 committee, he said no

Unknown Speaker (03:37:26.260)

to anything.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:27.420)

And now we get to say it was all a sham, even though the majority of the people interviewed

Unknown Speaker (03:37:30.620)

were Republicans, even though as was stated earlier, every single person here is Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:34.020)

You're banking a lot on the Republican issue, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:39.520)

Any Republicans institutional apparatus of the party is not necessarily friendly to Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:46.200)

Do you understand that some Republicans don't like Trump enough?

Unknown Speaker (03:37:49.500)

Darren, Darren, Darren.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:51.979)

I like the question of like, who could investigate this is like, well, the committee would have

Unknown Speaker (03:37:55.559)

to include conspirators.

Unknown Speaker (03:37:56.559)

I mean, it's like the committee would have to include the people who committed the crime.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:00.940)

Yes, definitely.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:01.940)

We need some moles.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:02.940)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:03.940)

I mean, that is that is just just I mean, it's remarkable.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:08.459)

You could you could not more be more obviously give up the game without just explicitly being

Unknown Speaker (03:38:15.420)

like, do you not understand what I'm saying to you?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:18.379)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:19.379)

Are you willfully obtuse or not understand?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:20.860)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:21.860)

I mean, it is.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:22.860)

It would be like Beatty at this point.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:23.940)

I would be, you know, an hour ago, three hours ago, I'm with everybody else going like, are

Unknown Speaker (03:38:31.379)

you being insane for saying all the stuff you're saying?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:34.459)

Now I'm with Beatty being like, how are you not getting me?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:37.780)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:38.780)

Do you not understand?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:39.780)

Are you not entertained?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:42.100)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:43.100)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:44.100)

So you might not be entertained because they seem to be able to have conversation.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:48.459)

I assume Alex is out.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:50.459)

Yes, Alex is on another ice tea break.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:52.819)

But he comes back.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:53.819)

Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:54.819)

Can I ask a question?

Unknown Speaker (03:38:55.819)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:38:56.819)

If every single person in government, if every Republican, if every Democrat, if every judge,

Unknown Speaker (03:39:01.440)

if every person in the United States that is in Trump's peripheral ends up hating Trump

Unknown Speaker (03:39:06.500)

or not wanting to work with Trump, at what point do you say, at what point do you just

Unknown Speaker (03:39:14.059)

say maybe Trump was actually genuinely a horrible person?

Unknown Speaker (03:39:22.940)

Or maybe Trump actually genuinely tried to circumvent legal processes in order to coup

Unknown Speaker (03:39:26.739)

the government or at least, uh, whatever you would call him asking Pence to unilaterally

Unknown Speaker (03:39:30.139)

elect the government for him.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:31.139)

Biden is trying to make it his number one campaign issue about January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:34.459)

It should be the number one campaign issue.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:36.139)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:37.139)

Not inflation, not open borders, not human smuggling.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:39.020)

Would a president try to circumvent the peaceful transfer power for the first time in U.S.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:42.260)

history?

Unknown Speaker (03:39:43.260)

This actually takes me to the next question.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:44.260)

This is going to be our final question of the night.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:45.260)

No, Trump's not been convicted of anything.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:46.260)

So yeah, welcome back.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:47.940)

So it's fun, it's fun that we have one more question because we've only had one other

Unknown Speaker (03:39:51.739)

one.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:52.739)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:53.739)

I think they intended to get to more or there are only two subscribers.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:55.739)

Possible.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:56.739)

But this question is not fruitful.

Unknown Speaker (03:39:58.979)

It doesn't lead to anything.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:00.459)

And Alex just ends up rambling.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:02.500)

The question is, will destiny address, quote, is white supremacy the biggest domestic threat

Unknown Speaker (03:40:07.100)

faced by the United States?

Unknown Speaker (03:40:08.100)

And I opened it up to the panel after you give an answer there, Steven.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:12.100)

Domestic threat?

Unknown Speaker (03:40:13.100)

I don't know how the FBI judges domestic threat.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:14.979)

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of crossover with like white supremacy groups

Unknown Speaker (03:40:17.479)

and then being like organized like a domestic threat.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:19.899)

But my guess would be domestic threats in the U.S. is probably fairly low to the total

Unknown Speaker (03:40:23.299)

security of the U.S.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:24.299)

I don't really care that much about it.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:25.299)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:26.299)

But that's the official policy is white supremacy is number one threat.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:28.500)

That's what is that?

Unknown Speaker (03:40:29.500)

That's not a policy.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:30.500)

That's a statement.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:31.500)

That's a negative order in June of twenty twenty one put out by the by the White House.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:35.659)

What are the negative policy choices or what are the bad things that are happening because

Unknown Speaker (03:40:38.459)

of that declaration?

Unknown Speaker (03:40:39.620)

They they they try to skew crime numbers.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:43.139)

They say everything is that.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:44.780)

I mean, they say everything, everything that skew cry come crime.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:47.819)

You know that.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:48.819)

What do you mean?

Unknown Speaker (03:40:49.819)

You're not going on crime by black people anymore.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:51.659)

Didn't we just get all of the no.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:53.299)

The FBI says the number one crime is white people.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:55.819)

They say the number one crime is white people.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:57.239)

The number one crime statistically by manipulating the numbers.

Unknown Speaker (03:40:59.860)

Number one.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:00.860)

The FBI is in charge of more involved in crime statistics.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:04.420)

I didn't say involved in crime statistics.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:05.819)

I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure you can go to the federal there's a name for the site.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:09.420)

I don't believe you're like hiding under a rock somewhere.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:12.180)

You have a speech for an hour yesterday saying the people are terrorists are about to take

Unknown Speaker (03:41:18.100)

over.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:19.100)

This guy is fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:20.100)

This guy is.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:21.420)

How is this happening?

Unknown Speaker (03:41:23.940)

How is he awake, man?

Unknown Speaker (03:41:27.180)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:28.780)

Is there a law there had to have been a rule that you can't point out that Alex is drunk

Unknown Speaker (03:41:34.340)

off his ass, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:41:36.000)

There had to have been otherwise because the first thing I'm looked I'm doing is like going

Unknown Speaker (03:41:39.780)

Alex you're slurring and drunk off your ass.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:41.940)

You were really speedy at the beginning of this are drunk now according to the rules.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:48.620)

You made an insane vibe shift of all the conspiracy theories of all the the if this happened then

Unknown Speaker (03:41:56.420)

this happened of all the causes and effects we have discussed tonight.

Unknown Speaker (03:41:59.860)

There is only one that is inviolable.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:03.020)

You started drinking and now you are drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:05.819)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:06.819)

And I think that you know, I would I would suggest that I've you know, I made some blanket

Unknown Speaker (03:42:12.180)

statements about Alex being on substances and stuff like that.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:15.020)

I guess really I can't prove that 100% a lot of circumstantial evidence, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:42:21.420)

But I would say that he better be drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:23.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:24.139)

Because otherwise, yeah, I don't even know why.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:26.139)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:27.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:28.139)

Otherwise, he's not healthy.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:29.139)

It better be stimulants and booze.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:31.340)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:32.340)

You if you sound like that, it should be because you chose to write and it happens mysteriously

Unknown Speaker (03:42:38.420)

after a bunch of iced tea breaks.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:40.659)

Do you have a habit of drinking and you said that you slandered the the Sandy Hook families

Unknown Speaker (03:42:47.020)

because you were drunk on air, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:42:48.940)

Maybe.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:49.940)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:50.940)

You're drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:52.000)

If you sound like that and you didn't mean to you should go to a hospital.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:55.540)

Yeah, it could be a hospital.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:57.139)

That might be a stroke.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:58.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:42:59.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:00.139)

So Destiny makes a scandalous comment.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:02.579)

There are said it's good that Biden is running on January 6.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:06.379)

I think January 6 is a huge deal.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:08.180)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:09.180)

The president trying to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power is a really big issue.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:12.260)

And that's why he can't be allowed to be voted for.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:14.260)

We know that's not why he can't.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:15.940)

He's not allowed to be voted for because the 14th Amendment says that if you have any prior

Unknown Speaker (03:43:19.899)

claiming they want to steal an election, we have to be clear about what's really happening.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:27.340)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:28.340)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:29.340)

Democrat voter.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:30.739)

These people don't care about the so-called insurrection.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:34.579)

That's not Biden's audience.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:36.739)

Biden's audience is to speak in support of this phony legal theory that's being served

Unknown Speaker (03:43:43.659)

as a pretext to remove him from the ballots.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:46.579)

And therefore, you know, in the defense of God, I agree.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:49.459)

He's trying to rally the deep state, saying Trump's going to persecute us and rally the

Unknown Speaker (03:43:54.860)

deep state if we don't stop him because they've committed all these crimes.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:58.780)

They work for him.

Unknown Speaker (03:43:59.780)

The fact is the Supreme Court's looking at it.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:01.459)

They actually decided to take the case.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:03.340)

So it doesn't matter what any of us think, the Supreme Court's going to roll on it.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:06.940)

And I think, you know, whatever they decide is what we're going to live with.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:09.739)

Let me ask this.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:10.739)

Well, that's also stupid.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:11.739)

What do you mean?

Unknown Speaker (03:44:12.739)

What happens?

Unknown Speaker (03:44:13.739)

Well, what do you think?

Unknown Speaker (03:44:14.739)

They've still got criminal investigations, criminal trials.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:17.100)

So you mean if he gets reelected before being sentenced, if he is convicted, I think he

Unknown Speaker (03:44:21.860)

just takes over being president.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:23.459)

He'll pardon himself or give the presidency.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:26.379)

And I don't think that's all he's going to do.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:28.379)

He didn't persecute his political opposition when he was in.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:30.459)

I don't think he's going to try to.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:31.459)

I think he asked Barr to investigate Hillary.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:34.979)

Quite the opposite.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:36.219)

Trump's own bureaucracies were undermining him.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:39.979)

Yakov Smirnoff in this.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:42.979)

Oh, that's amazing.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:45.860)

Yakov Tito's, because that's Alex's brand of vodka.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:50.500)

Anyway, controversial statement that destiny makes three and a half hours into this debate

Unknown Speaker (03:44:54.860)

is that January 6th matters.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:57.059)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:58.059)

That's ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (03:44:59.059)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:00.059)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:01.059)

So Alex has that conception that, like, Biden is speaking to the deep state through speeches

Unknown Speaker (03:45:04.540)

and stuff like that.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:05.620)

It's just more of the, like, you know, secret messages that he picks up on.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:10.420)

He says this a lot about various things that all these globalists do, that they're like,

Unknown Speaker (03:45:14.540)

oh, no, this is messaging to, like, warn people that Trump is about to punish them.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:19.260)

And it's all just, I mean, delusions.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:23.100)

I just like the idea that, sure, the deep state works for him, but Biden still has to

Unknown Speaker (03:45:28.020)

rally them.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:29.020)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:30.020)

He can't be like, hey, guys, here's our orders now.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:32.379)

He has got to be like, oh, let's do it, fellas.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:34.540)

He needs to get them excited.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:35.739)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:36.739)

I mean, what do you do?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:37.739)

You know what he does?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:38.739)

You know what he does?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:39.739)

Every quarter, he takes them on a team building exercise, do trust exercises.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:43.819)

You know what I was just thinking?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:45.379)

Ropes course.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:46.620)

You know what I was just thinking?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:47.620)

What's that?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:48.620)

I'm actually, you know what?

Unknown Speaker (03:45:49.860)

I'm glad that the deep state feels good about what they're doing, you know, because I'm

Unknown Speaker (03:45:54.219)

sure they could get down.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:55.500)

It's a lot of work.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:57.059)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:45:58.059)

And sometimes morally, maybe not even the best kind.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:00.700)

Dubious at best.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:01.700)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:02.700)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:03.700)

So you get a little rally every now and again.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:04.700)

That's good.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:05.700)

That's job security.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:06.700)

Anything Alex is saying is to be believed.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:08.299)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:09.299)

They don't sleep.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:10.299)

They work around the clock.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:12.239)

It's a ridiculous schedule.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:13.239)

They don't have any fun.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:16.420)

They're borderline blind, but also they can see into the future.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:20.020)

They delight in evil.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:21.420)

So maybe they do have fun.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:24.540)

You know, if you like what you do.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:26.100)

You never work a day in your life.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:29.180)

That's not true.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:30.180)

Unless you need to be rallied by Joe Biden.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:32.620)

So here comes what I would say is probably the last substance based clip that we have.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:41.100)

This is where the debate-

Unknown Speaker (03:46:42.100)

38 more clips.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:44.180)

Just one more after this.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:45.180)

But this is the debate fizzling to a close.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:48.379)

Very depressingly.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:49.379)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:50.379)

But everyone can see the establishments after Trump.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:53.500)

No?

Unknown Speaker (03:46:54.500)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:55.500)

Hillary's emails.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:56.500)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:46:57.500)

Hillary's emails was under Biden, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:46:58.500)

What about the Hunter Biden investigation?

Unknown Speaker (03:46:59.500)

There's no acknowledgment there?

Unknown Speaker (03:47:00.500)

The Hunter Biden investigation.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:01.500)

No.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:02.500)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:03.500)

That's Biden's DOJ.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:04.500)

Under Biden.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:05.500)

He was charged and he was convicted on the ground.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:06.500)

And that's because the Democrats want him to step down for Newsom.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:10.819)

So now the Democrats don't want Biden to step down.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:13.459)

That's admitted.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:14.459)

Who are the Democrats?

Unknown Speaker (03:47:15.459)

The debate continues.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:16.459)

The Republican Party wants Biden to step down.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:17.459)

It's been all over the news.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:21.459)

And then they're putting pressure on him to do it.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:23.020)

You're saying that's made up?

Unknown Speaker (03:47:24.020)

He's not going to step down.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:25.579)

How does he step down?

Unknown Speaker (03:47:26.579)

Because you still need to have a primary.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:29.299)

And it's passed the deadline.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:30.299)

Have you noticed he's frozen out the other candidates in his primary.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:33.100)

The deadline has passed.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:34.659)

So if he was to step down right now, Harris would likely be who the nominee would be.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:41.860)

It's too late for Newsom.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:42.860)

I think he'd miss out on several states.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:44.899)

Go ahead.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:45.899)

We've we've we've really answered that question.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:48.500)

We hammered that one right to the ground.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:50.500)

Ladies and gentlemen, tonight is coming to a close.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:53.100)

Thank you so much for putting this debate on.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:56.979)

So interesting point that is brought up.

Unknown Speaker (03:47:59.500)

It is, oh, you're talking about all this persecution of Trump and all this unfairness and Hunter

Unknown Speaker (03:48:05.899)

Biden is being prosecuted by his dad's Department of Justice.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:09.340)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:10.340)

But in in in the right wing's defense, we control them.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:16.379)

But then this is this is contextualized as, oh, yeah, of course, they're doing that because

Unknown Speaker (03:48:20.540)

they're the secret deep state is trying to get Biden to step down.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:24.340)

So Gavin Newsom can come in.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:26.059)

Oh, my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:27.059)

That explains the logistical reasons why this is stupid.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:30.020)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:31.020)

Alex has no response.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:32.020)

Nope.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:33.020)

And it just ends.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:34.020)

I think we've nailed that question.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:35.500)

Good night, everybody.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:36.500)

Zero hedge forever.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:37.739)

Oh, my God.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:39.100)

What an ineffectual drunk.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:40.899)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:41.899)

So here's Alex's closing thought on the on the debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:44.659)

No, I want to congratulate everybody for being here.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:46.819)

This has been a great debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:49.420)

Strongly disagree.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:50.420)

I, I genuinely can't think of a thing less true than what he just said.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:57.020)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:58.020)

Congratulations, everybody.

Unknown Speaker (03:48:59.020)

Good debate.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:00.379)

So we come to the end of this and I don't know if we learned much about January 6th.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:04.260)

I mean, we learned a bit about some of the claims that people like Alex and sure, Glenn

Unknown Speaker (03:49:09.979)

and Darren have about their feelings and opinions that they have that aren't substantiated.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:14.340)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:15.340)

And some of the allusions to past misdeeds by the FBI used to imply that they must have

Unknown Speaker (03:49:21.559)

done everything this time.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:22.899)

And I just feel no substance is gained at all through this.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:28.299)

But having gone through all of it, I think Destiny did a fine job.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:34.139)

I think it did about as good a job as anybody could do in any of these circumstances.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:38.139)

Probably.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:39.139)

And I was I think that Ben did better than anyone possibly could have imagined.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:43.659)

Probably.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:44.659)

It doesn't matter in terms of swaying anyone's opinion.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:47.260)

Not at all.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:48.260)

But it was a good job.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:50.860)

In an impossible situation, they did something and they did okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:56.299)

I mean this wholeheartedly.

Unknown Speaker (03:49:59.540)

I think that it will be a more effective strategy to rather than try and debate the right wing,

Unknown Speaker (03:50:08.620)

to try and rope them into bets wherein you play games unrelated and they have to abide

Unknown Speaker (03:50:16.620)

by the rule.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:17.620)

Oh no, that would be interesting.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:18.620)

By the winner, right?

Unknown Speaker (03:50:19.620)

That's fascinating.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:20.620)

So instead of this whole like, let's argue about J6, uh-uh.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:24.100)

Game of Family Feud.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:25.100)

You got Destiny and Bet on one side.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:26.899)

You got Alex, you got Glenn Greenwald, you got Baby.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:29.100)

We go back to the Family Feud thing.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:31.100)

Oh wait, Family Feud's a different game than Double Dare.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:33.620)

I'm sorry.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:34.620)

Because you were going on about Double Dare last time.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:37.340)

Sorry.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:38.340)

Continue, please.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:39.340)

No, I can't.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:40.340)

I have been so thoroughly shut down.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:43.459)

I thought when you were saying bets, you were talking about like, you know, I bet you about

Unknown Speaker (03:50:49.260)

a certain fact.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:50.260)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:51.260)

Or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:52.260)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:53.260)

I'll take you that.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:54.260)

And then that there's some kind of a structured like pay up.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:55.379)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:56.379)

I would go for that.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:57.379)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:58.379)

I would like that.

Unknown Speaker (03:50:59.379)

I was thinking more like, listen, we're never going to come to the like, well, J6, blah,

Unknown Speaker (03:51:02.780)

blah, blah.

Unknown Speaker (03:51:03.780)

Never going to happen.

Unknown Speaker (03:51:04.780)

But we play a Family Feud game.

Unknown Speaker (03:51:06.059)

Whoever wins, J6 happened or it didn't.

Unknown Speaker (03:51:08.940)

The end.

Unknown Speaker (03:51:09.940)

No more argument, no conversation.

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Everyone has to abide.

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Family Feud, win or lose, winner takes all.

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Who's hosting?

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Me, obviously.

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Okay.

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Wow.

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I think this is a little bit, you know, I, I don't think Steve Harvey can do it.

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Not after cat.

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Oh, no.

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What cat said?

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Oh, no.

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After what cat said.

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So I want to, I also want to make this abundantly clear when I say I think that they did a great

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job or a good job in an unwinnable, impossible situation where nothing is really going to

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stick.

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Yeah.

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They're saying that I would do a better job or that anybody like could do a better job.

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I don't think that this is a productive enterprise, this, this engagement in this, in this arena.

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Right.

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Um, because for the most part, what they're doing is stepping into a world where a fictional

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reality is real predominant and trying to argue using logic, reason, and all of those

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things that don't apply really to the fake reality.

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There is a different form of honesty.

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Right.

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There's a different form of logic and facts and evidence and that the two don't overlap.

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So even though you're doing a good job in this space, do people who can see like, ah,

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I can track this thought.

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Sure.

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This is what you're saying.

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Yeah.

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It doesn't really make a dent, but I couldn't do better and I wouldn't, I, I, I, I don't

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think anybody could.

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I mean, yeah.

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I don't think there is a way, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's not, it's not to say that there is a, uh, yeah.

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The problem with evaluating a performance is you can only evaluate it within the context

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of what's happening.

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So Destiny did a better job than the Krasnsteins.

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Yeah.

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The Krasnsteins did a better job than Glenn Greenwald.

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Greenwald did a better job than Beatty and Beatty did a better job than Alex.

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And debatably, Alex did a better job than Ian.

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But Alex won by a wide mile and you cannot win a debate whenever it is totally fine for

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someone to get more than three woos in before a moderator goes.

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You can't do it.

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You're not going to do it.

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You can't.

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Yeah.

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And when you're in a situation where you're in that person's studio, they're friends with

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the people who are paying for it.

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The moderator is clearly on their side.

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It's okay for him to step outside in the middle of the debate and get drunk and smoke cigarettes.

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Right, I mean, it's a ridiculous proposition.

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Yeah.

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Before he was drunk, he said, I will dominate you.

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Yes.

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Multiple times.

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This is not a debate.

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This is not a debate.

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That was before he was drunk.

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And when it's acceptable for him to present as evidence, look on Twitter tomorrow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's absurd.

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No, you can't evaluate a performance like that.

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No, not really.

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And I think that there is no such thing as winning in a circumstance where the behavior

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that Alex is displaying isn't penalized.

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Right.

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And that is an inherent problem with the false reality, because inside that false reality,

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his behavior is somehow not a problem.

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It's not condemnable.

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Yeah.

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I think the problem that we keep coming back to, and I know it's so hard to get around,

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because you can't.

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You can't get around to this problem is that if you want to turn things into win or lose

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in any conflict with Alex, Alex is going to win based on the Alex rules.

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He makes the game when you engage with him.

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That is, he's in his studio.

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He's in, you know, he's drunk.

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You can't even, what are you, what is he going to say?

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What are you going to say afterwards tomorrow?

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Ah, I got you yesterday.

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He'll be like, ah, I was drunk.

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It doesn't matter.

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Well, you probably wouldn't even.

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And anytime you make a point about anything, he can just be like Biden speechless and then

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he will think that you don't have a response to that.

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Then he won.

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Exactly.

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He won because the game is rigged.

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And it's dumb.

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And it's dumb.

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It's for him to win.

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But like I said, as good as it could be.

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Yeah.

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And I think that there were a couple of points where even things that I didn't really expect

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were made.

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Agreed.

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Like, you killed Ashley Babbitt.

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That one was good.

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Shocking.

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Yep.

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The point of like, hey, why are you so obsessed with thinking that Ray Epps texts mean something,

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but somehow the Proud Boys ones don't.

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Right.

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That's a really fine point.

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In a logical debate, that would have been a headshot.

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Impossible to get around that one.

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But yeah, it's interesting.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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No.

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I believe that, and it's the family feud thing is a joke, but the only way to conflict with

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Alex has to be Marshall or outside of the realm of his game.

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It has to be something where he's not allowed to talk in this way in an effectual manner.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah, but I would argue-

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If you play basketball, then it doesn't matter what Alex thinks about where the ball goes.

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If it goes in the hoop, you get a point.

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Do you remember-

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There's no difference.

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Do you remember playing pickup games with your friends and they'd argue whether something

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was a three pointer or not?

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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That would be Alex.

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No, but nope.

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Don't care.

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There is something to that, and you see the way that Alex is even disrespectful and tried

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to turn court into his own show.

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Yeah.

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He's outside somewhat of these structures where he has these almost comical defense

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assistants built in.

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Even then, he will still try to play the same games until the point where he is not allowed

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to, and that becomes a problem.

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The illustration of him as an ineffectual, uninformed idiot that is this, this should,

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in any right thinking world, erode his fan base considerably.

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You would think.

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People should see this and be like, holy shit.

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Look at this idiot.

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Yep.

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They won't.

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People, it should-

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Tucker Carlson said that he lies all the time and no one cared.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it should lower Alex's estimation at the very least in these other people's

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mind, not necessarily to the point in personal life where I'm sure they can't imagine him

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being a good person.

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Maybe they do, but I don't care.

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If I were Darren, I would have some questions.

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But more in a, this is an irresponsible booking.

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This is a bad booking.

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As a booker, it's just a bad booking.

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Well, even hours and hours ago at the beginning of our coverage of this, I explained why Alex

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is an irresponsible choice to have on this panel, even without considering any of his

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behavior.

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Yeah.

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And the circumstances of his very close connections to the people who did the insurrection.

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Yeah.

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Like this is not some, oh, the fact that he shares a lawyer with Joe Biggs, you know,

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like these are things that are like, no, we cannot just on a basic level, trust you to

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have an unbiased and uninvested answer.

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That Roger Stone went to prison for Trump, was pardoned by Trump, and then went to work

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with Alex.

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Um, no.

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Didn't he-

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Wait, was it-

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The work was more before.

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Yeah, the other way.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He went to work for Mike Lindell-

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Right.

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More after this.

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That was the after-

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Because Alex couldn't afford him.

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Yeah, exactly.

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That was the one.

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Yeah.

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But still, still quite a conflict.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, we come to the end of this and, fuck, this has been too long.

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I'm glad.

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We're done.

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Yes.

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We're done.

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And, uh-

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Never to speak of debates again.

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This was a, like a question, a bad idea maybe on my part, I think, but it started and, you

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know, you got to finish it.

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You know, the original pitch, I think the very first pitch was, we'll do the documentary

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treatment.

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We'll do it over the course of a week.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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And then the second pitch was two parts, and here we are.

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I just thought that we couldn't, like, spend an entire week.

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I totally get it.

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Ah.

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So anyway, we're done.

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We'll be back with another episode that will not be this long.

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No.

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At some point.

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Probably.

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Maybe Friday.

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Could be.

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Eh, who knows.

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Eh.

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But until then, we have a website.

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Indeed we do.

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Yep.

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We'll be back.

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But until then, I'm Neo.

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I'm Leo.

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I'm DZX Clark.

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Uh, fuck.

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I wish I-

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Yeah!

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Woo!

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Wait.

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No.

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That's also in the clip.

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I wish I could make that into audio.

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You twirling the pen.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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If only I could do that.

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Imagine Jordan twirling a pen.

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Woo!

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Yeah!

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Woo!

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Yeah!

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Woo!

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And now here comes the sex robots.

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Andy in Kansas.

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You're on the air.

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Thanks for holding.

Unknown Speaker (03:59:57.940)

Hello, Alex.

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I'm a first time caller.

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Good work.