Transcript/816: Tucker, The Man And His Twitter- Episode 1

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Theme Song (00:00:04.000)

Red Alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red Alert knowledge five days. Damn,

Theme Song (00:00:16.000)

Jordan wedding knowledge party.com

Theme Song (00:00:20.000)

It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge, knowledge. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys. Xiang V or the bad guy knowledge. Dan and Jordan knowledge fight need money Andy and Sandy are stopping Andy and Pam handy in Kansas. Bray Andy in Kansas, you're on the airplane

Theme Song (00:00:51.000)

huge fan. I love your word. Knowledge by now knowledge fight.com

Dan (00:00:59.000)

Hey everybody, welcome back and I'll try to Jordan workable dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of saline and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed.

Jordan (00:01:07.000)

We are Dan Jordan. I have a quick question for you. So you brightspot today buddy?

Dan (00:01:12.000)

My blind spots today. Jordan is got a little bit of a Z IP packet from Black Dragon Queen Christy. Oh, hey, Christy. Oh, yeah, lovely. Mini block, Lego kit of succulents. I get some little cacti and what have you. I've not built this yet. I've not opened it up. But I'm very excited. It's a great compromise of you know, I love building little mini blocks stuff. Totally. It's plants that won't die. They won't die. Although succulents are the ones that you don't have to water that much. So this is like taking the problem that doesn't exist with succulents because he could just leave a succulent for sure. It'll be fine. Right? It's basically a Lego to begin with. Right? But yeah, that the attorneys and it included a lighting kit. Yeah, they go lighting kit. That is I have no idea how this thing is gonna work. It's got like wires and shit, but it's Lego branded. Yeah, I don't know if it's a fake light. Yeah. I have no idea what's going on. But it looks really cool. And I'm excited to build it. So thank you so much, Christy. Yeah, that's that is very cool. also came with a nice book, How to Talk to your cat about gun safety. That's important, which I have not opened up to figure out if it's a joke book with a title and all the pages are blank. Or if someone actually wrote a book about how to talk to your cat about

Jordan (00:02:33.000)

guns. I don't know that. That does seem like an interesting sequel to where to hide your guns. Not not. Don't

Dan (00:02:40.000)

give it to your cat.

Jordan (00:02:41.000)

Don't give it to your cat. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now where you see that's why you have to write the second book because everybody was like, Oh, whatever. I'll just give it to my cat. Boom. That's where guns go.

Dan (00:02:51.000)

Put this in your litter box.

Jordan (00:02:53.000)

No, don't do it. Oh, that's you talk to your cat.

Dan (00:02:57.000)

Thank you. Anyway, what's your brightspot

Jordan (00:02:59.000)

My brightspot DN is that school is over

Dan (00:03:04.000)

the summer. I mean, winter today is a perfect time for summer break.

Jordan (00:03:11.000)

Absolutely. But no, my. My wife is free from the evil clutches of work. Day to day nonsense. It's gonna be great.

Unknown Speaker (00:03:21.000)

Hey, all right. Great.

Jordan (00:03:23.000)

Together, all of it. Exercise wellness. eating better. Do the whole thing. We're gonna do it all eating tennis rackets i If only if only we're gonna make them out of cotton candy.

Dan (00:03:36.000)

I'm gonna make you a tennis racket out of beef jerky,

Jordan (00:03:41.000)

a beef jerky tennis racket. Yep. All right. Are you going to weave it? Yes. It's just trying to think of the ways that you could do.

Dan (00:03:52.000)

I've got no buttons to make. So I need a project. All right. So

Jordan (00:03:55.000)

you get the you get the jerky for the for the racket, right? You get the hard stuff. But then you got to use the beef sticks for the for the netting, do I? I mean, I would assume

Dan (00:04:09.000)

this is when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. That's what happens.

Jordan (00:04:14.000)

That's fair. I mean, that wouldn't be the first time I've done either of those things. I haven't

Dan (00:04:19.000)

thought this through fully. I used Twizzlers. Okay. Shaw. Now you're in trouble. You might be the outside. Twizzlers for the medicine salty

Jordan (00:04:28.000)

and sweet are fine, but not with not with Twizzlers and jerky. That's just not gonna have

Dan (00:04:33.000)

like chocolate and peanut butter. No, he's

Jordan (00:04:34.000)

not. Those are the two worst textures to combine together in history.

Dan (00:04:39.000)

Yeah, they're pretty bad. I recently saw a Twizzlers commercial share, and it was something like, chew it over. Or something like that. Sure. Look, that's the twig slow. slogan. You guys just ripping off twigs.

Jordan (00:04:54.000)

Everybody who choose stuff you got to take your time with it. Sooner or later you say it you

Dan (00:04:58.000)

know I was I wasn't Here's a little disappointing that's dirty man.

Jordan (00:05:02.000)

I mean, I thought that was done whenever big league Jude did it, you know, Big League Chew it over, but they didn't have a commercial that said that they weren't allowed to, to close to tobacco.

Dan (00:05:12.000)

I feel like my parents didn't allow me to have that or candy cigarettes. Yeah, you know, those were things that were very much. No, no, no,

Jordan (00:05:20.000)

I'm not going to say that candy cigarettes led to me smoking but I did enjoy candy cigarettes. And then I also greatly enjoyed regular cigarettes. So I mean, it's not unrelated, I suppose.

Dan (00:05:32.000)

I think, did you? Did you just enjoy the gesticulating you could do with a candy cigarette?

Jordan (00:05:36.000)

Basically? I think I did the same thing with a regular cigarette too.

Dan (00:05:40.000)

Yes. Did you ever? Did you ever try and light a candy cigarette? Smart? What? That's very smart.

Jordan (00:05:48.000)

Well, I didn't even know it was made out of chalk. Or just garbage?

Dan (00:05:52.000)

I think they were like gum inside. Oh, you had you had better kid? You've been different varieties of candy.

Jordan (00:06:00.000)

I want to say that the ones we had were essentially Chuck

Dan (00:06:03.000)

What about wax lips? Do you ever fuck with wax liver talks with the wax lip in my

Jordan (00:06:06.000)

life? Not once if I fucked with a wax lip, and you can quote me on that. I will. I'm not going down for any of this wax lip cancellation does

Dan (00:06:15.000)

a lot of rumors that Jordan Holmes is a man who's known favored on the wax lips and notorious wax lip joy.

Jordan (00:06:24.000)

And I get it. I understand why people do the wax lips. But that's not for me. Oh,

Dan (00:06:28.000)

I'm really glad to hear that. Why did they do it? Because it's been an issue for me. I've never understood Me neither. So Jordan today we have an episode to go. I do. I do believe we do. Yes. I was thinking about it. And I. So on our last episode, I ended by saying we're going back to the past. Yes. And that was something that I was going to do. But I also felt a little bit of a draw towards doing something a little bit different, right? Novelty? Well, kind of. So the for a long time, people have wanted us to branch out to cover other things. And there aren't a whole lot of other things that really fit within the category of, you know, stuff that that we can cover in a way that I think is in our in our wheelhouse. Right, right, right. You know, there are folks like Tim Poole who are kind of an option, sort of, but he's also like a shithead cloud chasing trollee asshole and right don't really care to engage with a lot of stuff like that. Right? Not to say that he's not somebody who shouldn't be, you know, monitored attention to share. It's just maybe that's not what I find my abilities right suited for. Right. Alright, Project Camelot is kind of a bummer. Lately, Jim Baker is a disaster gone. There's people like Russell Brand, but I don't know, maybe maybe we'll do an episode about him at some point. But in terms of like a regular source of something to look at. Right. I'm not sure that that's our, our lane.

Jordan (00:08:08.000)

I feel like we come into an issue where finally we in our audience are at odds here, right? Okay. So when we do episodes about other people, our audience enjoys them. And the reason being is because we are making an enjoyable episode out of it. Right? We do not enjoy it because it is not enjoyable. Well, so there's a little bit of a push back there. There's a disclosure.

Dan (00:08:32.000)

I'm not sure. I think that that whether it's enjoyable for us is kind of really down the line of of priorities because I've been so enjoyable. Is it ever to really even talk about Alex John at all? We've gotten used to it. That other people, maybe we're not used to hearing? Yeah. But I think that there is a certain type of figure that we are well equipped to discuss, right? And then there's figures that maybe our skill sets aren't designed towards, you know, someone like Tim Poole. I feel like you could end up in a situation where you want to scream at him on Twitter, like you did with Glenn Greenwald. And that plays into like his whole thing. Sure. She does. He's kind of trying to make people angry. Yeah. Baiting. And yeah, there's there's a intentional strategy of like, boosting engagement that comes along with that. It's really transparent. Totally. He's doing Yeah. So anyway, this is a long way of saying I decided that now that Tucker is away from Fox News. I thought maybe we should try. We should give it a test balloon and see if we can apply our skills and our our shit to his Twitter show.

Jordan (00:09:47.000)

I mean, we had a slight conversation about this. I told you we shouldn't do wherein you argued that we should definitely not do this. Yeah. And you you couched it in terms as though it was it's entirely my fault. which I'm fine with. I'm fine with that. No, I

Dan (00:10:02.000)

can't just in terms of trying to save you from, like, what? Like you have sensitivities about people's voices I do. So like, you know, Trump or Tucker, they're kind of the people that like you get mad hearing them. Alex, would you've gotten used to?

Jordan (00:10:18.000)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I will say this all right here, I think is why I'm more willing to jump into that now than otherwise. Tucker doesn't have a boss anymore. That's what's important to me. Like, the more I think about the the like thread that keeps people interesting. It's not having a boss. It's not having a boss.

Dan (00:10:40.000)

There is a ability to speak freely that can lead you towards

Jordan (00:10:45.000)

making huge dumb mistakes.

Dan (00:10:48.000)

tendencies. Yeah. So Well, when I texted you, I said, you know, I'd been going down this road is preparing an episode, but I didn't think we should do it. Because of, it's gonna be awful for you. And then also, just like, I don't know exactly if it works for us. I just had some kind of like, I'm not sure. And that's part of the reason why you want to try a test balloon. Here we go. It is. Let's see what we do. But yeah, you said, No, I think we should like, well, all right, here yourself

Jordan (00:11:17.000)

is what we do. I earned it. I do not get to complain about it. Yeah, that's what's important.

Dan (00:11:22.000)

So we're going to talk about the first episode of his his Twitter show. So it might be a little bit shorter of an episode than some of our other ones because his episodes are only like, 10 minutes long. What are so on Twitter? Yeah. Okay. It's just basically like, what would have been his opening monologue? Yeah, or whatever. Fascinating. And so I was gonna do the first two episodes, because those are the ones that are out now at the time of recording. But I figured, you know, we'll, we'll try out the first one. If it works. We'll do the second one go from that. So let us know if you enjoy it. And we'll find out.

Jordan (00:11:58.000)

If you're hearing this. We did release the episode.

Dan (00:12:02.000)

So before we get down to this, Jordan, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wall. Oh, that's great idea. So first, Athena and her wife are not loser. Little titty babies. Thank you so much. You are now ballsy walk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Next cult of saline Murcia, when thank you so much. You are now ballsy. Well, I'm a policy wonk, thank you very much. Next, I want to take a time out from thinking walks and make sure everyone knows I'm considered the Bret Hart of podcasting. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank

Jordan (00:12:31.000)

you very much. How

Dan (00:12:32.000)

dare you make me compliment myself

Jordan (00:12:34.000)

is Bret Bret Hart's

Dan (00:12:36.000)

is the Hitman okay, because the excellence of execution. All right. All right. Yeah, one of the best I write

Jordan (00:12:41.000)

all right.

Dan (00:12:42.000)

He's Canadian. Oh, no. Get

Theme Song (00:12:44.000)

the fuck out.

Dan (00:12:46.000)

Next Hey, Timmy. It it's time to pray. Thank you so much. You are now policy walk.

Theme Song (00:12:51.000)

I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And

Dan (00:12:53.000)

happy birthday. Che I appreciate you like Alex appreciates doughnuts in the break room. Stop it. That wasn't part of the chat. I I'm a policy wonk. And we have to take for granted it makes Jordan so thank you so much to ex spouse of God. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk

Theme Song (00:13:14.000)

donkey man, I'm

Theme Song (00:13:15.000)

telling you brilliant someone someone sodomized, sent me a bucket of poop daddy sharp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black action. He's a loser. Little little teddy baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounced Jesus Christ.

Dan (00:13:32.000)

Thank you so much.

Jordan (00:13:33.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:13:34.000)

And I guess I should acknowledge right now that Alex will cover on Wednesday, his coverage of Trump being indicted again. Ah, I know probably people are curious about that. We'll get to that. All right. All right. This was was something that I felt drawn to try it. Yeah. And you know, if you if you wait too long, then he's on episode six or seven of his Twitter show. And by then, you know, who knows if it's time for this trial balloon? It's too late. Yeah,

Jordan (00:14:03.000)

we can't jump in unless we're jumping in at the beginning.

Dan (00:14:06.000)

You know what, that's stupid. But that is exactly how I feel.

Jordan (00:14:09.000)

I mean, you're not wrong. About a being stupid. But also I feel a little bit excited about this. Not least of which because this is the first time in 800 Odd episodes where I genuinely can't say I really don't know anything about Tucker. I don't know anything about his show. I don't know anything about it. We have what he does. I try and avoid all of this as much as possible. As you said, I have a thing for voices. Anytime I hear it. I shut it off. So this is this is true to the original premise, Stan. Well,

Dan (00:14:38.000)

I mean, that's, uh, you don't know everything about Tucker. No. And if I'm being perfectly honest there I didn't do a ton of like, Who is this man sure in this but that's exploration for future episodes, but I'm saying you know, if we continue down this road,

Jordan (00:14:53.000)

man, maybe we can get him a billion dollars.

Dan (00:14:58.000)

Give it time. Yeah. We don't work fast. It takes a while there are results

Jordan (00:15:05.000)

in seven plus years that

Dan (00:15:07.000)

so here is weird. The first episode jumps off and I will say I was pretty impressed by how little time he has for pleasantries.

Tucker Carlson (00:15:14.000)

Hey, it's Tucker Carlson this morning. It looks like somebody blew up the cove CAD dam in southern Ukraine. The rushing wall of water wiped out entire villages destroyed a critical hydropower plant. And as of tonight puts the largest nuclear reactor in Europe in danger of melting down. So if this was intentional, it was not a military tactic. It was an act of terrorism. The question is who did it? Well, let's see, the Coast Guard dam was effectively Russian. It was built by the Russian government. It currently sits sorry. The dams reservoir supplies water to Crimea, which has been for the last 240 years home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Blowing up the dam may be bad for Ukraine, but it hurts Russia more. And for precisely that reason the Ukrainian government has considered destroying it. In December, The Washington Post quoted Ukrainian general saying his men had fired American made rockets at the dams flood gate as a test striker. So really, once the facts start coming in, it becomes much less of a mystery what might have happened to the dam, any fair person would conclude that the Ukrainians probably blew it up.

Dan (00:16:27.000)

Okay, so that was quick.

Jordan (00:16:30.000)

Okay, so that's literally the way he opened. Yeah. Hey, what's up damn exploded. It wasn't the Russians. It totally wasn't Putin, even though we know that would be exactly right up his wheelhouse. It makes strategic sense for them militarily

Dan (00:16:44.000)

to the races just right, right. Hello, my name is Tucker.

Jordan (00:16:48.000)

Todd sanders are great. Let's go from there.

Dan (00:16:51.000)

So let's start here with that, that Washington Post article that he's talking about. That is a real article, but Tucker is wildly mischaracterizing what it says. The article itself is discussion of Ukrainian counter offensives against Russian occupied areas, largely focusing on the successful push to liberate Israel. After that operation concluded in the northeast of the country, Ukrainian generals were interested in attempting similar tactics in the south to drive Russia out of Curzon. Essentially, the story is about a fakeout tactic that allowed Ukrainian forces to make it appear that they were heading for Islam, when they were actually approaching from the north, which led to a mass retreat by Russian troops, and a victory for Ukraine, the hope was to be able to create another situation near Kherson, where Russian troops would be isolated and forced to surrender or retreat. The area around the city of Kherson is mainland Ukraine, bordered to the east by the Dnieper River, on the other side of that river is more of the curse on Oh, blast and ways further south, you end up in the Crimean peninsula, from the opposite side of the river from Kurdistan, to the landbridge to Crimea, it's still over 100 kilometers. But this land is also at this point under Russian occupation. Right, right for the last year.

Jordan (00:18:08.000)

So like, if I here's what here's what I understand about it's hard to

Dan (00:18:13.000)

just fully, like verbally explain geography. That was about as good as I can do. Right.

Jordan (00:18:19.000)

So from what I understand of the damn scenario, all right. It's been under Russian occupation for quite some time. The last year, right. Yeah, that's quite some time, I guess, in my world. All right, in the grand scale. Sure. That's fair. That's fair. I mean, war time. A year is a long time. Sure. And then they, the seismic people were like, oh, there was an explosion. And it probably came from inside, the Russians are inside. And it's tactically really smart for them to blow up the dam, even though that's a war crime. So it kind of makes sense for them to have done it. And they did do it. There

Dan (00:18:53.000)

are a number of thoughts around it. And I would say that it's probably at this point, based on the information I am aware of pretty difficult to say with certainty. Yeah, anything about who did what, but there are indications and factors. And so that's the conclusion you're coming to, I think it's fine for you to reach that conclusion. Yeah. But I think it would be reckless of you to say definitively that one side did it or not fair, like,

Jordan (00:19:23.000)

what I will say is that I have just figured out Blue's Clues. How does that sound? Great. Okay.

Dan (00:19:29.000)

So the goal of this operation that Ukraine was engaged in that this Washington Post was talking about was to cut off the city of Kherson from the area to the western side of the river, that that's where curse on the city is you're trying to isolate that from Russian occupied areas so that the Russians couldn't restock supplies to the forces they're sure from that article, quote, the 25,000 Russian troops and that poor portion of curse on separated by the bra I'd river from their supplies had been placed in a highly exposed position. If enough military pressure was applied, Moscow would have no choice but to retreat, co valchek said Russia had to arm and feed its forces via via three crossings the Antonov ski bridge, the Antonov ski railway bridge and the Nova Kopka dam, part of a hydroelectric hydro electric facility with a road running on top of it. The two bridges were targeted with us supplied M 142, High Mobility Artillery Rocket, our rocket systems, or high Mars launchers, which have a range of 50 miles and were quickly rendered impassable. There were moments when we turned off their supply lines completely and they were still, they still managed to build crossings, Kovalchuk said they managed to replenish ammunition. It was very difficult, because I'll check considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians he said even conducted a test strike with high Mars launchers on one of the flood gates at the Novikova Kosovska dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the neighbor water would be raised high enough to stymie Russian crossings, but not flood nearby villages. The test was a success Kovalchuk said but the step remained a last resort he held off right. So that is the thing in that article that Tucker is referring to right, gotcha. One variable that's important to recognize here is that the Ukrainian forces were able to force a retreat from the city of Kherson. But that wasn't all that happened. From that same Washington Post article, quote, the pressure from Ukrainian troops forced to retreat, but they didn't manage to run down or destroy the fleeing Russians. mines in some case laid a meter apart or, and three rows deep or tucked in thin strips of road prevented the Ukrainians from giving chase. There are a lot of possibilities for what happened with that dam. And it's not a foregone conclusion. The way Tucker is saying it is. It's possible that Ukrainian forces blew it up. But it doesn't really serve a meaningful strategic purpose for them right now, when flooding the dam was considered an option late last year, it was in the context of a larger objective, which was ultimately achieved. So using this article to justify present day actions doesn't really make sense. It's also possible that Russia blew it up for any number of reasons, or it's not impossible, that it collapsed due to completely unintentional causes. It could have been one of the minds that was left behind or a freak accident. There are a lot of possibilities. But when you're Tucker and you're presenting the situation through an extremely Russia promoting lens, then it makes sense to say that any fair person would conclude that the Ukrainians blew it up.

Jordan (00:22:36.000)

Well, I mean, if your evidence is inherently unfair than an unfair person wouldn't even look at it. Whereas a fair person would be like, well, I guess that's all the evidence. So you must be right.

Dan (00:22:49.000)

Well, the only primary sources he's even like pointing to is this Washington Post article, and that's doesn't work.

Theme Song (00:22:55.000)

Yeah, yep. Yep. Okay, one thing I think you

Dan (00:22:58.000)

can notice right away that sets Tucker apart from Alex is how intentional his words are. Alex talks shit off the top of his head and intuitively understands how to spin these yarns, which is often a sloppy process. And it can lead to complete incoherence. But Tucker doesn't turn on the camera and just go live. He does some preparation. And the fingerprints of that preparation are really transparent when you pay attention. Look at the way he's presenting these details. He begins by establishing the fact that the dam was intentionally destroyed by someone and that that act could not be a legitimate military target. But it was an act of terrorism. That's like he just he Yeah, that's the framing of the entire thing around. Yeah, he starts by saying if this was intentional, and then immediately without you even noticing is like, though, of course, it's intention.

Jordan (00:23:46.000)

Yeah, it's a framing device. It's good. Yeah, it works.

Dan (00:23:49.000)

He then goes on to say that the dam was, quote, effectively Russian because it was built by the Russian government and sits in Russian territory. That sounds pretty persuasive. Except the Tucker fails to mention that the dam was built in the 1950s when Ukraine was part of the USSR, and that the territory that the dam is in can only be called Russian territory because the Russian army is occupying it. It's been an illegally occupied area since the invasion began in 2022. Tucker is trying to play that game that other Russia apologists do where they argue that areas like Crimea or the Donbass are actually really Russia, evoking the idea that the invasion is just Russia taking back what's actually already theirs. That's not accurate about those areas, and it's even less true of Kherson. But if you're listening to the way that Tucker speaks, his words contain conclusions that he hasn't earned. Yeah, yeah. If you're not paying attention, you'll just like okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Jordan (00:24:40.000)

And if you put it in a different context, you go well, that that's an absurd line of thinking like, okay, so this guy sold you a house, and then he just broken and took the house back and then threw you out and you're like, Well, I mean, he built the house. So I guess, what are you gonna do?

Dan (00:24:57.000)

So then Tucker adds that the dam and the reservoir Are provides water for Crimea, an area that Tucker is comfortable saying is rightfully part of Russia because that's where their Black Sea Fleet is stationed. That sounds good. Tucker isn't given the full picture here. In 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, and at that point, they needed the water that came from the naper River and the Kafka reservoir. It wasn't as much of an issue for drinking water. But the North Crimean Canal, which is fed from that reservoir is responsible for a vast majority of the irrigation systems in the area. After the annexation, Ukraine began requiring payments from Russia for the delivery of water, which Russia did not go along with, due to their refusal to pay Ukraine created another dam that would block the flow of water to the north Crimean Channel. In the present invasion, Russian troops seized the area, and they blew up that dam reopening the canal for the delivery of water, which in turn lowered the level of the reservoir considerably, and caused some concerns about issues that Tucker is even bringing up now. Like, the danger to the the nuclear power plant.

Jordan (00:26:02.000)

Right. Right.

Dan (00:26:03.000)

So like that was there to them when they did that to the water to the channel? And I don't know.

Jordan (00:26:10.000)

So you're saying that Russia has already blown up a dam?

Dan (00:26:13.000)

Well, it is. But it is a little different to do you know, there are different reasons you would do these years? Sure. They're both dams doesn't mean they're the exact same situation.

Jordan (00:26:26.000)

No, I'm not saying that they're the same situation. I'm just saying that if you have a group of people who have already blown up a dam will get strategic value out of it, have evidence of being there, and we're in control of the dam at the time, hey, there's a lot of evidence mounting.

Dan (00:26:42.000)

I'm not saying that there aren't interesting factors. But it's not it's not a smoking gun.

Jordan (00:26:48.000)

i It's not a smoking gun, nor am I saying it is.

Dan (00:26:51.000)

So here when Tucker says that this provides water for Crimea, it's kind of true, but it's actually a much denser picture than he wants the audience to see. Because when you consider nuance and detail, it's harder to just accept the Russian apologist framing that he's taking. So then Tucker says, quote, blowing up the dam may be bad for Ukraine, but it hurts Russia more. And for precisely that reason the Ukrainian government has considered destroying it. He then transitions into the Washington Post article that we discussed as the justification for the basis of that claim. But that article doesn't support Tucker's position. That article is not about Ukraine, considering destroying the dam because it would hurt Russia more than them. It has an element in it of Ukraine considering destroying part of the dam, and Tucker is writing his own story about why and using that for his own purposes. It's pretty similar behavior that you see with Alex. Yeah, you know, basically what you're doing is abusing a primary source. Aleksey usually uses rewritten headlines. Yeah. But in this case, Tucker is just cherry picking one detail, and then writing a context around it that doesn't exist in the original.

Jordan (00:27:56.000)

No, it's very clear, literally from clip one, that this is a slicker version of Alex's

Dan (00:28:02.000)

show. Yeah. But it also gets less luck as it goes along. Well, that I also believe,

Jordan (00:28:07.000)

yeah, but But I mean, just from the writing, the fact that he's using the local TV news voice, you know, like, inside, and then outside, they go to the thing. Yeah, like he does. He does the whole produced vibe of it, but it is still am grabbing and choosing things. And then Mr. Prep rip is representing them.

Dan (00:28:26.000)

And there's rhetorical tricks that he uses that Alex doesn't use, like, and vice versa. Alex uses screaming and fake crying and stuff like that, which Tucker is probably maybe too proud to do at this point a couple months away from doing at this point, whereas Tucker uses these tricks that Alex doesn't use, which is like any, any fair person would say blank, you know, like, why is it so impossible, that blank? Well, that kind of leading his rhetorical Alex would not be able to really pull that off because it's it requires subtlety and smoothness, whereas Alex is a blunt instrument. Well, I

Jordan (00:29:02.000)

mean, what I find fascinating about that, is that I think the easiest place to assume that you would come to that from if you were Tucker is being like, Oh, well, he's trying to appeal to more median class or like more moderate people. Yeah. When I feel like what he's doing there is just giving extreme people a way to call themselves fair people. Do you know what I mean? Like he is giving you the excuse to say, no, no, you are not supporting Russia because you're a far right lunatic like everybody else who's just going along with what weirdos say. You're a fair minded person.

Dan (00:29:37.000)

And you'd have to be based on do that, Bob. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. There's there's a there's a number of applications for why this rhetoric would be employed. Yeah. In the way that it is. Yeah. So Tucker has these fraudulently presented points which he then uses to insinuate that when you consider the facts, it's a lot easier to see the Ukraine probably blew up the dam. The truth is when you consider the actual facts, it's not easier to reach that conclusion. But if you only consider the bullshit way, Tucker is showing you the selected details. It's super easy to reach that conclusion. And that's because Tucker isn't interested in exploring the news. This is about leading the viewer to that conclusion. And like you're saying justify it in some way that is emotionally acceptable. Yeah. This isn't analysis or commentary. It's really just propaganda. Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty interesting, you know, to just dive in and be like, this is this guy. Yeah, is different. I mean, now they're the same but different, ya

Jordan (00:30:30.000)

know, now that I'm listening to it, it is it is like the idea of watching Alex and Tucker because they do you know, they do watch it. They don't just watch Infowars Alex talks about Tucker all the time. Everybody knows what Tucker and Alex are saying, in that ecosystem. A

Dan (00:30:45.000)

text all the time, apparently, totally.

Jordan (00:30:46.000)

There's gotta be a point. There's got to be like a feeling of Alex gives you the like, No, I'm the revolution and I'm part of the American rebel. I've thrown tee off shit. Whereas Tucker gives you that feeling of like, I'm not crazy. This is of course, what is right to do. I'm a fair minded person. Yeah, like, that's a fascinating thing.

Dan (00:31:09.000)

Sure, sure. And I would be lying if I didn't say that, uh, part of what drew me towards giving this a test. Seeing if you know, this is something that's worthwhile is that you hear a lot of people saying like, now that he's on Fox, he's gone full Infowars and such I'm like, Okay, well, I'm maybe one of the people as the most familiarity with Infowars in the world. Let's see. The case.

Jordan (00:31:34.000)

Yeah, nobody is more prepared to give you a ruling on the question.

Dan (00:31:38.000)

And I And so far, I think, based on one episode, I don't know. But like, based on that, yes. And no, yeah, there are a lot of similarities. And then there's a lot of stuff that's like but I think a lot of things that are those primary differences often come down to some some aesthetic and tactical it. Kind of Yeah, kind of ideas.

Jordan (00:31:59.000)

Yeah, it feels like there. It depends on what fucking hat you're wearing. Yeah,

Dan (00:32:04.000)

and neither of these guys wear a hat they don't wear good hat not on not on air. Alex when he's off air always wears a 10 gallon hat.

Jordan (00:32:11.000)

Oh, that's too big always wears cowboy gallons. Plenty. The Texan eight gallons are plenty for everybody. You don't need 10 gallons where there's a water crisis. Yeah, Tucker wears a two gallon. That's two,

Dan (00:32:23.000)

two pints. So not only did Ukraine blow up the dam, they also blew up the Nord Stream pipeline,

Tucker Carlson (00:32:31.000)

any fair person would conclude that the Ukrainians probably blew it up, just as you would assume they blew up Nord Stream, the Russian natural gas pipeline last fall. And in fact, the Ukrainians did do that, as we now know. It's not like Vladimir Putin is anxious to wage war on himself. Oh, but that's where you're wrong. Mr. And Mrs. cable news consumer. Vladimir Putin is exactly that sort of man, the sort of man who chewed himself to death in order to annoy you. We know this from the American media, which wasted no time this morning and accusing the Russians of sabotaging their own infrastructure.

Dan (00:33:07.000)

So Tucker can't prove that Ukraine attack the Nord Stream pipeline. That being said, there's a distinct possibility that it is the case that either group sympathetic to Ukraine or Ukrainian special tactics team did do it. It's possible. Tucker is claiming that it's definitively the case he can't back up. Last month, a bunch of classified documents were leaked on Discord, including one that indicated that the CIA was aware that Ukraine had plans to blow up the pipeline approximately three months before that attack took place. Okay. It's entirely possible that this plan was what came to fruition, but it's also possible that it's not Yeah. The person who leaked that information was a 21 year old man named Jack to shara, who is now been arrested for the leak. Well, you shouldn't necessarily throw out a message because it comes from a shitty messenger. It's probably important to be aware that Jack was described by a friend as a proud racist who was preoccupied with the idea of a common race war. He was a bigot who talked about how the government was a Zionist occupied government. And he liked to hang out with like minded young people. So he started a Discord server called thug shaker Central. Jack worked in computer science for the government and through that he had access to this classified material which he then posted on his racist Discord server. Also, in that server, he would laugh while watching ISIS execution videos and express his support about the Christchurch massacre. I'm bringing this up because Jack to share is clearly a piece of shit. But that does not necessarily mean that the document that he's leaked is fake. What it does mean is that I'm not willing to trust this racist right wing extremist judgment when it comes to leaking documents that capture the full picture of the available intelligence. Someone like this is clearly intensely ideologically motivated. And that makes it very difficult to take on blind faith that there isn't another document that casts doubt on Ukrainian responsibility for the pipeline attack that he ignored or didn't release. Yeah, that is a real difficulty when you have someone like this as the person who's providing the secret material? Yeah, if the material itself could be totally real,

Jordan (00:35:08.000)

no, their point of view is what limits the value of the as a leaker? Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, you can't, okay. You are a person who is known for maybe above all else, choosing and picking what things you want to believe are true and share with other people at the exclusion of things that may be completely disruptive towards that. So yeah, I don't think I would take you first. Yeah.

Dan (00:35:35.000)

So I have some I have some tentative issues with this, that, you know, hey, that that document, I believe it's real, entirely could be indicative of the plan that was carried out. But I suspend a little bit of judgment in terms of making a definitive conclusion.

Jordan (00:35:53.000)

I mean, and also, I have a big the biggest problem I have with all of these, like, oh, this place has plans to do this thing. I bet 50 bucks that some American people have plans to blow up shit. I bet every country everywhere has plans to blow up something that if you were like, Hey, you shouldn't have plans to blow it up. And they'd be like, No, we're just making plans in case

Dan (00:36:13.000)

that you know, that's true. Some some of the context is important. Yeah, absolutely. So Tucker mocks there that, you know, the idea that Putin would hurt himself just to annoy you know, whatever. Watch like Alex Tucker used to be a huge opponent of Putin. Yeah. As with Alex, who would not be surprised to find him being an adherent of the belief that Putin carried out the apartment bombings back at that point in time before Tucker became excessively pro Putin. Right. It's really interesting to see Tucker denigrating the cable news watcher here too. In that clip. He's on his first day of his career not being a cable news hack, and all of a sudden, he's so above the riffraff. It feels like an adolescent who's found a new friend group and he's pretending he was never a dork. I get the motivation here, but it's kind of sad. Like Tucker didn't decide to strike out on his own when he had another choice. He's doing this show because he got fired from a cable news hack position where he made millions for years. It's not like oh, oh, the cable news. Media wants you the cable news if you were to believe that Putin wants to annoy you, girl up.

Jordan (00:37:18.000)

Listen person who's watched me on cable news for 20 plus years. Watching cable news is stupid. Yeah. All right, buddy.

Dan (00:37:28.000)

So anyway, also, what

Jordan (00:37:29.000)

have you been doing for the past 20 years? Tucker just as good. Just a real quick question. I follow up with me whenever you have backpacking through Europe news, Cable News viewers stupid. I'm person who's watched you on cable news for 20 years. So what have you been doing for 20 years,

Dan (00:37:43.000)

I was on a sabbatical researching bowtie?

Jordan (00:37:46.000)

That's a really good idea. Are they coming back? No. Oh,

Dan (00:37:49.000)

so Tucker saying that Russia had no idea like reason to attack themselves, oh my God, but he's also really comfortable saying that other things are false flags. It just feels disingenuous to like have false flag within your vocabulary, and then be like,

Jordan (00:38:04.000)

what kind of fool would false flag themselves except one at the end? It's what kind of moron would engage in false flattery?

Dan (00:38:12.000)

And obviously there's

Jordan (00:38:14.000)

false flags that happen all the time. And I think that

Dan (00:38:17.000)

that dynamic that you're playing with there is exactly why it's important to realize that like false flag accusations aren't sincere. They it's a tactical rhetorical thing that people like Alex and Tucker use to sidestep and excuse and make excuses for the people that they want to support when they do atrocious thing. Yeah.

Jordan (00:38:38.000)

A false flag accusation might as well be a smoke bomb. It might as well be a boom I Okay, now we can't see what it is we're exactly talking about.

Dan (00:38:45.000)

I don't feel like I can afford to accept that that's real without limiting my support for the people or bad that I want to so totally,

Jordan (00:38:53.000)

if I agree with you, I have to change. That is what you should say.

Dan (00:38:59.000)

Or at very least, if I agree with you, I don't have an argument not to dry right?

Jordan (00:39:06.000)

If I agree with you, then I can only either say I am 100% totally fine with murdering innocent people or I'm gonna have to do a lot different with my life. Yeah, that's not good.

Dan (00:39:20.000)

So Tucker talks a little bit of shit here. And then I just, I found this to be fascinating the way that he talks.

Tucker Carlson (00:39:31.000)

Bill Kristol, the man who once told us that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 911 immediately denounced Putin for my job even more savagely compared him to Donald Trump. The rest of the pundit classmates similar clearly coordinated noises. Putin did it, Putin did it. And the reasoning was simple. Putin is evil and evil people do evil things purely for the dark joy of being evil. In this specific case, put attacked himself, which is the most evil thing you can do. And therefore perfectly in character for a man that evil. That was the explanation.

Dan (00:40:09.000)

It feels like he's talking to children.

Jordan (00:40:10.000)

Wait, attacking oneself is the most evil

Dan (00:40:15.000)

thing you can do what? Okay, I guess all right. That's Is that what you're writing down in the notes?

Jordan (00:40:21.000)

No, no. I was just writing down that like the idea of a bunch of people agreeing that something happened because that's probably how it happened is coordination you know, like, not not consensus or not like with with the information available. This is the conclusion that we have drawn. It's coordinated click. Oh, we've all talked and this is the story we're going with

Dan (00:40:45.000)

Sure, man. Oh, yeah. The carrier pigeons go out and tell. Yeah, yeah, you're lying. Totally. Yep. So I don't know if Bill Kristol actually ever said that Saddam was responsible for 911. But I'll stipulate that it is true because I don't really care and I don't have time to read through 100 Bill Kristol transcripts to find his comments. You

Jordan (00:41:02.000)

know what he said about Bin Laden?

Dan (00:41:06.000)

Can't come up with a Billy Crystal joke. He's only

Jordan (00:41:09.000)

mostly dead. Okay.

Dan (00:41:11.000)

Even if that is a real statement that Bill Kristol made, I would argue that Tucker Carlson's career at crossfire did way more damage and was way more inaccurate, just around the issues related to Saddam Hussein. The war in Iraq didn't happen because someone like crystal said that Saddam did 911. It was sold to the public largely on the rationale that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, because he had WMDs and harbored terrorist, we could not just wait and see how things went, we needed to take action. Tucker sold the war on CNN, Tucker argued day in day out that he didn't support war, but that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and we needed to begrudgingly invade. He can try to play this roguish character that's so different from the Republican establishment, but his career was built on being complicit in their greatest blunders. Also, on a number of occasions, Tucker came right up to the line of saying that Iraq was directly involved at 911. For instance, on the September 25 2002 episode of Crossfire, he said this, quote, more hints today that there's some kind of a link between Iraq and al Qaeda. At a NATO conference in Poland, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters that Washington has evidence linking Iraq to al Qaeda, he says he presented the evidence to other NATO defense ministers. So far, however, most Democrats are dismissive of the evidence, presumably, because Democratic campaign hacks believe they have better access to classified intelligence information than the Secretary of Defense. Yeah,

Jordan (00:42:39.000)

I really love how we don't have to remember anything, like we just don't do it. Yeah, like as a society, we're just like, yeah, if we, if we talk about that, and hold people responsible for it, we're gonna have to change. I feel like this is the situation that we keep coming up against is that if I acknowledge that the reality is what it is, I'm going to have to do something different. And so I just refuse to acknowledge but

Dan (00:43:07.000)

I think a lot of people are willing to recognize those things. I'd want that chain totally, and just don't find ourselves in a position where we're disempowered to be able to

Jordan (00:43:17.000)

craft what are we supposed to do? He shouldn't be there. Yeah. What am I supposed to say?

Dan (00:43:23.000)

It's hard. So more startling, Lee. I think this is fucking baby talk. What he's doing. This is nonsense. That legitimately sounds like he's talking to middle schoolers, but what he's saying does somewhat line up with Alex's explanation of the globalists. They are evil, they do false flags, because they're evil, and they just delight in being evil. So it's interesting to see Tucker mock this mentality in what he views as the cable news class who aren't actually saying this, and yet he aligns himself with Alex who is saying that right, we're right. And just because it's fun. Here's a clip of Tucker on C span from 1999. This was back when he worked for Bill Kristol at the Weekly Standard.

1999 Caller (816) (00:44:03.000)

Tucker. You worked for Bill Kristol Correct. I do happily Yeah, that guy. He's not a Republican. He's He's a disgrace Pepe, Kevin, rip them yesterday, I wanted to talk shows, and I'm a pat buchanan backer and I think the Republican Party is going to rue the day we don't need Republicans like you. And Bill Kristol when the Republicans and conservatives like Pat Buchanan, and I think Republicans are going to rue the day of the mess with Pat because when he goes I go and a lot of other people go

Dan (00:44:28.000)

damn that color. Sounds like present day Tucker time travelled back to scold himself.

Jordan (00:44:33.000)

That is so wild. That is so wild. Yeah, I don't like time I don't like its existence. I don't like the fact that I've had to experience it. I know that four dimensional space is fucking set in stone. There's no changing the future or the past. It all happened simultaneous. And this disgusts me sir.

Dan (00:44:55.000)

Yeah. Whatever happened happened. Oh my god something except for Tucker is able to time Traveling go back to school to URI bow tie wearing is on C span

Jordan (00:45:03.000)

i That's Oh yeah, I

Dan (00:45:05.000)

listened to that. And I was like, oh my god, that is such a interesting parallel. I mean, the present Yeah,

Jordan (00:45:11.000)

that's fucked up. Yeah, that really fucks with my head,

Dan (00:45:14.000)

right. I mean, you just take the the establishment GOP and replace began with Trump now. And it's so much.

Jordan (00:45:24.000)

I mean, it's just, it's just disgusting. It's just, it's just, I'm supposed to know, like, here's the problem. All right. The problem is that fiction lies to us. It's not real. Because in fiction, people grow. That's the whole idea. That's the whole idea of the hero's journey, you meet conflict, you overcome it, you are changed, and then things go on. But not that not in real life. There's no hero's journey. There's just somebody beats something, and then random shit happens. And then people allow them to keep doing it again.

Dan (00:45:57.000)

Well think about it as a villains journey, though, like, yeah, you know, consequences. All Tucker's laughing at this caller scolding him on C span. And then over time through progressive, you know, just deterioration of his possible any integrity that may or may not have been there. In 1999. He ends up becoming that caller. Yeah, basically. Yeah,

Jordan (00:46:20.000)

that is so weird. That is That is so weird.

Dan (00:46:24.000)

It is. So no one. No one is saying that the damn situation could be Ukraine. And that's not true. Now, a lot of people are saying we don't know. Yeah. You're saying that? Yeah, sure. And a lot of the news sources that I was reading were like, Yeah, Ukraine blames Russia. Russia blames Ukraine where it's a war. Yeah, that's how it goes kind of unclear. At this point. There's reasons to believe either side could have it's a war. But anyway, no one is saying to grant

Tucker Carlson (00:46:51.000)

no one who's paid to cover these things seem to entertain even the possibility Are you paying to cover aliens who did it no chance of that. Ukraine, as you may have heard, is led by a man called Solinsky. And we can say for a dead certain fact that he was not involved. He couldn't have been Zelinsky is too decent for terrorism. Now you see him on television, that's true, you might form a different impression. Sweaty and rat, like a comedian turned on oligarch, a persecutor of Christians, a friend, Black Rock, but don't believe your own eyes.

Jordan (00:47:25.000)

A friend to BlackRock.

Dan (00:47:26.000)

So, like I said, every news article that I've seen about the dam situation has said that Ukraine points the finger at Russia that Russia blames Ukraine and the no one knows for sure. Further, all of the mainstream media outlets have covered the leaked document that came from the racist Discord server that showed Ukrainian planning involving attacking the pipeline, and Tucker's only primary source that he's brought up at all. That had to do the only primary source at all but it also was to do with that Ukrainian military figure considering flooding the dam at the end of 2022 came from the Washington Post. Yeah, so like, what what are

Jordan (00:48:02.000)

you all people paid to cover this dumb thing? You're so stupid anyways, the Washington Post. I rely on their coverage, right? Yeah,

Dan (00:48:10.000)

the mainstream media isn't all marching in lockstep saying the Putin did this. But people like Tucker and Alex like to create that image for their audience, because it's a cheap trick that they can use to make themselves seem like a kind of clastic voices like the only ones brave enough to think for themselves. While everyone else is a sheep on autopilot.

Jordan (00:48:28.000)

Again, you've been working for cable news for 20 plus years. Yeah,

Dan (00:48:32.000)

bow tie. Jesus Tucker is using some interesting language to describe the Lansky there. And it's not language that was missed by flagrant anti Semite. Oh, yeah. Lysander Anglin, the guy who runs the daily Stormer,

Jordan (00:48:43.000)

somebody who looks rat faced, yeah, and persecute Christians. So

Dan (00:48:50.000)

Andrew Anglin wrote a review of Tucker's first episode and he said, quote, I did like that he called him a rat like persecutor of Christians. That's good. Tucker was playing to his Nazi audience and they heard him loud and clear. Yeah,

Jordan (00:49:03.000)

that's not what that one wasn't hard to miss. That one wasn't hard to miss. That's the most anti semitic thing I've heard.

Dan (00:49:10.000)

Recently. Yeah, pretty, pretty. Pretty over.

Jordan (00:49:14.000)

Yeah. And so he's allowed to do that. Yeah, apparently

Dan (00:49:18.000)

on Twitter, it flies. Okay. I mean, it doesn't stop there either. Really?

Tucker Carlson (00:49:22.000)

Actually, Mr. Solinsky is a very good man. The best really, as George W. Bush once noted, he is our generations Winston Churchill. Of all the people in the world, our shifty, dead eyed Ukrainian friend, I'm sorry, is uniquely incapable of blowing up a damn. I'm sorry. He's literally a living saint, a man in whom there is no sin.

Dan (00:49:44.000)

It's pretty grim stuff. It's really hard to listen to Tucker's smug baby talk media criticism and not feel condescended to. Yeah, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could really listen to or watch this shit unless they were already in pretty deep in believing him. Like if you're actively live Listening to what he's saying this would be annoying and insulting to the point where I would just turn it on. Yeah,

Jordan (00:50:04.000)

dude people not get that he's being very mean to them Dick he's an asshole like this is not the way you talk to a human being that you're an equal to. No, that's for fun Shout Out

Dan (00:50:14.000)

is very, very patronizing.

Jordan (00:50:16.000)

That's weird and people choose to be patronized to in an almost comforting way. Fascinating. I could see

Dan (00:50:22.000)

it being somewhat comforting, if that's what you're looking for. Fascinating. Some more fun attacks on Solinsky. There. Sure. Interestingly, and Andrew Anglin is review he also says this quote, he used my shifty and dead eyed line. Not only is Anglin happy about Tucker calling Ukraine's Jewish President shifty and dead eyed. He's taking credit for being where Tucker got it from. Yeah. So along with that Washington Post article, it looks like we found a second primary source Tucker is working from the Nazi head of the daily Stormer.

Jordan (00:50:51.000)

Yeah, yeah, that's fun. People should be real not happy with Tucker. Real happy,

Dan (00:50:58.000)

you know, everyone, except for the Nazi folk.

Jordan (00:51:00.000)

It seems like way. Yeah, yeah. Nazi folk on lockdown on a knockdown.

Dan (00:51:07.000)

So Tucker plays a short clip of zolecki Talking to Lindsey Graham shares, and they're talking essentially about how, you know, they've killed Russian soldiers. And Lindsey Graham makes a joke about it's the best money we've ever spent or something like investment in defending Ukraine. Right? It's a little tacky, perhaps. Yeah. But Lindsey Graham, yeah. But Tucker has some interesting perspective. See, there's

Tucker Carlson (00:51:34.000)

something dark here, just two middle aged guys celebrating the killing of a population. They don't seem like the kind of people who would enjoy flooding villages or starting a famine. In any case, who cares if they are, it's really not your business, your job at support Ukraine. Watch Nikki Haley, Republican candidate for president explain this principle on CNN,

Nikki Haley (00:51:57.000)

a win for Ukraine is a win for all of us. And for them to sit there and say that this is a territorial dispute. That's just not the case to say that we should stay neutral. It is in the best interest of America. It's in the best interest of our national security for Ukraine to win. We have to see this through we have to finish it.

Tucker Carlson (00:52:16.000)

Say it's very easy to understand. It is vitally important for you to support Ukraine because it's necessary for Ukraine to be supported by you. Your support is mandatory until it's finished, whatever it is, and whatever that means. So shut up and support Ukraine or else you're in trouble.

Dan (00:52:37.000)

Nikki Haley didn't say that.

Jordan (00:52:38.000)

I didn't hear her say that. I would if I had heard her said that. I would have let you know.

Dan (00:52:43.000)

Yeah, Gu saying that it's in the US is a national interest for Ukraine to come out victorious. Tucker isn't responding to what she said. He's responding to what it feels like she said, if you only watch trash shows like Tucker right. And that's intentional. So it's Alinsky and Lindsey Graham being happy about Russian soldiers dying is fucked up in some ways, but it's not really impossible to understand. Does Tucker think that Putin is solidly lighting a candle and saying a devout prayer for every Ukrainian soldier, his troops kill? Like, you'd hope that everyone would constantly stay aware of people's humanity, but it's a war. It's a war, whereas the landscapes country was invaded, you can understand someone in that position not being the most precious about lives, none of what they said makes it any more or less likely that they blew up the dam. But there's a fun game for Tucker, because it's a shortcut for him to present to Lenski as a bad person, so that he can say doesn't it seem like he's the sort of person who would hope that even if you buy the premise that he's a bad person, it doesn't follow that this indicates that he's willing to blow up a dam to blame somebody else

Jordan (00:53:45.000)

that I think I think the simplest thing about this that is being distracted away from by Tucker is the idea that there are militaries and countries involved. You know, like by turning this into a popularity contest between Do you like Putin or do you like Zelinsky this sweaty?

Dan (00:54:04.000)

Totally Yeah, do

Jordan (00:54:06.000)

do you pass it? Who do you pass a note to in eighth grade? You know, like, it's that fucking shit, as opposed to be like,

Dan (00:54:12.000)

he's sort of retreating to almost like a gossipy law. Totally.

Jordan (00:54:15.000)

100% It's removing the reality of fucking not just that, not just that, but I want to say this to Tucker. Oh, right right away. Oh, boy. The only thing that they do not let Zelinsky do is have any say in any of the war shit. He's He's there to get money. That's what he's for. And he's great at he's a comedian and an actor. He does not know anything about military tactics. So of course they don't let me

Dan (00:54:42.000)

take a step back and say in addition to that, he's also very effective. Right, raising the morale of the country. He is a he is a great leader in that respect.

Jordan (00:54:56.000)

If you wanted a president for this With what kind of training it wouldn't be like a great military leader or a great administrator it'd be somebody who can fucking rally people can that they nailed it. Yeah.

Dan (00:55:10.000)

So the the game that Tucker is playing there with the, he's a bad person, so maybe he would blow up a dam. Alex engages in that kind of thing a lot. There's a whole genre of conspiracy theory where the person making the claim has no evidence of anything but to make the narrative stick you just hang it on insinuations that aren't the bad guy is capable of doing this bad thing. And so like, that's one of the things I've tried to like, focus on as I was going through this is like the similarities and differences between Alex and this totally. And there. That is a big thing in Alex's world like, you know, class, Rob's a bad guy, so of course he would want you to be imprisoned in your apartment. Any bugs. Yeah, yeah. All right. I don't know. Yeah,

Jordan (00:55:53.000)

the the ridiculousness is so fucking weird. But

Dan (00:55:56.000)

that's the that's the baby talk shit.

Jordan (00:55:57.000)

No, I know. That's what it is like, oh, so the, to me, what I'm hearing is the focus is like, let's take extremely complicated events, boil them down to a popularity contest. And then you choose which one you like more, guess who I'm going to tell you to choose? booton? And that's it.

Dan (00:56:16.000)

Um, maybe, maybe a little bit of that. And then the popularity contest is also like presented as also, it's not just as popular as is also right. Sure.

Jordan (00:56:28.000)

Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

Dan (00:56:30.000)

It's I don't know. It's, I think, I think I need to see a bit more of this before I can, like, really have a feel for Tucker, but like, there's the reductive is a good way

Jordan (00:56:42.000)

to put it Yeah. reductive for sure.

Dan (00:56:45.000)

So we got another pot kettle situation with Tucker's comments about Nikki Haley to back when he was a bowtie wearing little boy Tucker spent a fair amount of his time scolding people who didn't support the war in Iraq and had a position that it was mandatory. For instance, here's Tucker from a January 21 2003 episode of Crossfire, quote, France's foreign minister has been swaggering around the UN lately boasting that his country will never support American war plans regardless of the evidence against Saddam Hussein. Asked about our so called allies reluctance to stand up to evil dictators. They clearly frustrated President Bush told reporters, Surely our friends have learned lessons from the past. On the other hand, maybe they haven't, as one by one its former colonies have descended into chaos and misery. Francis looked away when a war broke out of the middle of Europe during the 1990s, France yond when the United States which twice saved France from a German speaking future, attempts to disarm one of the world's most dangerous lunatics. France howls Fair enough. Let's invade a wreck just to annoy France.

Jordan (00:57:47.000)

What a child. How does everybody how has he gotten away with this stick for so long? He's a little whiny baby,

Dan (00:57:54.000)

there's some something to that. Wow. On that same episode, Tucker was talking to an anti war activist and made the point that there was a whole lot of wars going on in the world, but they were focused on the war in Iraq, saying, quote, I must say the anti war movement seems like an anti America movement to me.

Jordan (00:58:10.000)

We've been there before. Yeah, Tucker's political

Dan (00:58:12.000)

position was that the war in Iraq was in the US his best interests. So he went about deriving people who didn't agree with him, right? What Nikki Haley said wasn't even as explicit or extreme as the lie in the Tucker took in the past. But he appears to be responding essentially, to what he would say,

Jordan (00:58:28.000)

Yeah,

Dan (00:58:29.000)

let's do what Haley did say,

Jordan (00:58:31.000)

Yeah, I'm interested to see Tucker, essentially. Call everybody stupid for doing the thing that he did for 25 years.

Dan (00:58:41.000)

It seems like a lot of this. Yeah. So hypocrisy doesn't matter. And I'm not trying to score or anything. Of course not. But there's a dynamic that I think is pretty worth noting there. Tucker's response to Haley's comments don't really make sense based on her actual comments. She didn't say that it was mandatory to support Ukraine and didn't say you needed to support them because they needed your support. Tucker's commentary is far more suited to be the response to something that he would say he is and has been the sort of commentator who would say the thing that he's attributing to Haley. And so he's responding in kind, right? There's kind of a weird dynamic there. That's very similar to Alex's like, you know, the globalist plans are what I would do. Right, right. Right. Exactly. That that kind of projection of your own. Yeah. shittiness onto the mind, right. The person you're, you're commenting on

Jordan (00:59:27.000)

if I was trying to sell this war, I would tell it like this. Yeah, the way that I did, yeah.

Dan (00:59:33.000)

Look, I don't know everything that Nikki Haley has ever said. But you know, if she's saying that it's mandatory to support the war than the clip that he plays, should it be demonstrative of that? That's the claim that he's making and then he's playing this clip. Yeah, it was not.

Jordan (00:59:48.000)

It's almost as though he did that on purpose to prime you for you know,

Dan (00:59:52.000)

yeah. So you would hear that as her saying, exactly, yeah. So she, Nikki Haley His comment was not you must support Ukraine because Korea great needs your support. Right. Right. Right. But that's the way that's the way that we're moving forward. And now Tucker is moving forward

Jordan (01:00:10.000)

as though she did say that despite the fact that she had and he has improved it. Yes.

Dan (01:00:14.000)

And now Tucker wants to sound really smart. And unfortunately, he has run up against someone who knows what he's talking about.

Tucker Carlson (01:00:22.000)

Back when they still taught logic statements like this were known as tautology. Oh, I wouldn't do that. But true, because it is the more you repeat it, the truer it becomes, you know, self reinforcing reality. There was a time when tautologies were considered illegitimate arguments not to mention hilariously stupid. Only dumb people talk like that. Now, everybody in power talks like that diversity is our strength. trans women are women. Solinsky is Churchill. It's all self evidently true, doesn't need an explanation and don't ask questions.

Dan (01:00:55.000)

Tucker does not understand what he's talking about. No, but this strikes me as a piece of evidence that someone working on his staff probably likes to watch online debate streamers. tautology is one of the terms that you might hear thrown around by these debate folks along with some names of fallacies, but they don't usually use them correctly. No, that's usually why they are saying them. Yeah, because they didn't take any classes.

Jordan (01:01:18.000)

Because they know that if they were heavy rains that conversation read a

Dan (01:01:22.000)

Wikipedia article about sky know what a tautology is. So in the area of logic, a tautology is a statement that must be true because it has to be, for instance, A equals A is a tautology, because the thing must be the same as itself. Another really elementary one is either a equals b or a does not equal b, because the disjunction or is satisfied if one of the elements is true, and A equals b and a does not equal b contain all possible states of being either they are the same or they are not. a tautology is essentially a structure of a statement that has no possible way of being false. When you're talking about logic tautologies aren't bad arguments. They're just a term that describes formulations of sentences that can never be false. And when we're talking about something can never be false. It's important to understand that this is using the word false in the logic sets. sentences have truth values in as much as they can be true or false based on their structure. For instance, if you have the sentence A and B, the truth value of the sentence is determined by the truth value of and for the conjunction and to be true, both A and B must be true. So if A and B are true, the sentence A and B is true. And if A is true, and B is false, then the sentence A and B is false. When you get into different types of grammar within the sentences, different rules apply for truth values. For instance, if you have the disjunction, like a or b, that sentence will be true if A is true, if B is true, or if both are true. The only way it can be false is if both are false. If you're dealing with an if then statement like if A then B that will be true in every case, except for the instance where a is true and B is false, because of the relationship of how if then, AND and OR work. Yeah, all of these sentence constructions are not tautologies because there are instances where they can be false. What Tucker is talking about is not the logic meaning of tautology, he's talking about the rhetoric version. This is a term that's thrown around to derive someone using somewhat self proving or redundant arguments that people make like what Tucker is pretending Nikki Haley said, she didn't say that you need to support Ukraine because they need your support. But Tucker claim that's what she said, most likely, because he wanted to do this little fake smart guy stick about tautology, because that sentence would be more or less a rhetorical redundancy. Yeah, the problem here runs a little bit deeper though. The statements that he mocks at the end of the clip are not tautologies in the logic sense, nor in the rhetoric sense. They are just sentiments that he doesn't like diversity is our strength is a bit slogan eat but it's not a tautology. It's not even really something you could translate into the logical form because it's just a statement. It wouldn't be an if A then B kind of thing. It would just be represented by a there's no narrative. It would just be there's no there's no grammar within it. No, it's it is just, it's just a and that can be true or false. That's it's not a tautology. It also isn't a tautology in the rhetorical sense because it's not redundant. Our strength is our strength would be a rhetorical tautology, right? trans women are women is not a tautology. Again, it's just a statement that he doesn't like. It's slightly verbally redundant in the word woman appears twice. But it's not really a rhetorical tautology because of the context of those words. The landscape isn't as Alinsky as Churchill is not even close to a tautology in either sense of the word. Tucker is using this word to describe beliefs he doesn't like and I think what he trying to say is that these are statements that he feels people throw around baselessly their statements that are just supposed to be true on their face. No evidence required. But I don't think that people who believe those three statements believe them for no reason. Tucker is acting like they do, but they don't. I could very easily explain why I believe the first two like I could, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be difficult and I'd be happy to if Tucker wants sure someone else can take the Zelinsky Churchill one. No, I'm not gonna feel that that's not my business. I'll take two of the three. It's unfortunate that whoever wrote this monologue for Tucker didn't actually study. I knew this stuff. Because it's, I mean, it's a little bit embarrassing when you try to be condescending, and you're talking about stuff wrong. Yeah. When they went back when they taught logic now,

Jordan (01:05:46.000)

that is what we share in common with Alex. It is very frustrating to be condescended to by somebody who is talking bullshit out of the side of their face.

Dan (01:05:56.000)

But in situations like this, I kind of enjoy it. I mean, I feel bad for people who don't understand what he's talking about. But for me, I'm like, oh, that's embarrassing. Yeah.

Jordan (01:06:07.000)

Yeah. I mean, it's so fun. It's so it's such one of those signs of like, if you're using a $10 word, it's because you don't know what you're talking about. You know, it's just one of those. It's just one of those words,

Dan (01:06:19.000)

it seems strange to me the real the need to inject that word, or concept into this because it's, it's shoehorned in in a way that that is very unnecessary.

Jordan (01:06:31.000)

Oh, no, it's it might as well be a I'm wearing a genius hat superiority complex level of like, Oh, see, I thought that we all had moved on past tautologies. But now everybody's throwing tautologies left and right. You've got a tautology. You've got a tautology. Everybody just won't stop tautology rising all the time. Yeah, and you're like actually you sound like an idiot.

Dan (01:06:53.000)

I don't know if there's like another colloquial use of that term that he's he's woking or something. But no, it definitely doesn't match with

Jordan (01:07:04.000)

Luke we'll use of Tatau Yeah, in the Northeast. They say tautology for all kinds of stuff. You know,

Dan (01:07:09.000)

that's what they call Coca Cola.

Jordan (01:07:12.000)

Exactly. It's like bless your heart in Texas. You know, it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Dan (01:07:17.000)

So the US very uninformed, it turns out

Tucker Carlson (01:07:20.000)

by this point is possible that American citizens are the least inform people in the world. Your average yak herder in Tajikistan knows who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline, it's obvious, does he think some skinny dude in a dress is actually a girl? Come on, that idea would never occur to him. You've got to be lied to at full volume over a period of years in order to reach conclusions like that. And of course, we have been the media lie they do. But mostly they just ignore the stories that matter. What's happened to the hundreds of billions of US dollars we've sent to Ukraine? No clue.

Dan (01:07:58.000)

So there's Another commonality with Alex just throwing random transphobic ideas in why now unnecessary? Yep, just throw it in there. So the American public very well may be poorly informed particularly about things that are going on other countries, but I'm not sure where it ranks internationally. What I can say, however, is that Tucker Carlson viewers are almost certainly less informed than the average American. There was a famous survey that was done about a decade back that found that Fox News viewers were the least informed about current events and politics. While Daily Show and NPR viewers were the highest. And just last year, a survey found that Fox watchers were vastly more likely to believe misinformation about climate issues than people who got news from other sources. Why do they why do they think that is? I would guess it's because their business model is not informing the audience.

Jordan (01:08:43.000)

Okay, that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. So you think they're doing it on purpose? Yeah, I think so.

Dan (01:08:47.000)

Yeah. Okay. And I think that Tucker is following along with that here. Yeah, that sounds right. I suspect Tucker chose yak herder in Tajikistan, because yak and Tajikistan are funny words,

Jordan (01:08:58.000)

they're fun to say,

Dan (01:08:59.000)

yeah. I'm not sure he really should defend to the transphobia by pointing to Tajikistan, though, since that country is headed by an authoritarian dictator, who has been office in office and Stalker was wearing bow ties. 1994. He's been in office since 1994. Yeah, it's really easy to find out where the money is going that we sent to Ukraine. You can find plenty of mainstream media outlets reporting on this. Tucker is pretending that it's some kind of a mystery, because it's another shortcut to making himself look legitimate and like a bold truth teller, as opposed to a bigot Dum Dum talking to his audience like they're in grade school.

Jordan (01:09:31.000)

Yeah. I mean, the funny part about that, of course, is that if he were talking about the Iraq War, he would be able to totally relive it legitimately be like, nobody knows where this hundreds of millions of dollars went. And then but instead, he was like, I love the Iraq War. The irony almost irony is astounding.

Dan (01:09:49.000)

I almost guarantee that I could find totally 100% from crossfire

Jordan (01:09:53.000)

100% I would bet a million dollars you could find a like where's America putting all this money to you?

Dan (01:10:00.000)

By I spent so long reading transcripts of crossfire Oh, God, and I didn't want to do more.

Jordan (01:10:07.000)

Yeah, no. Reasonable, reasonable. Nobody blames you. Yeah, CNN

Dan (01:10:11.000)

has like the big archive of them. And I was going through it. And there were a couple that I was like, Oh, this could be pretty fucking interesting. And then I clicked on it. I'm like, Oh, it's a Novak.

Jordan (01:10:22.000)

Has CNN ever apologized? I don't think they

Dan (01:10:26.000)

have maybe not formally. I really think they should. We need to get magala they need to get

Jordan (01:10:33.000)

no Carville, nobody will apologize for the raw hell that they have wrought upon us. They'll all just act like no, that's part of business. Thank you.

Dan (01:10:41.000)

I don't know if they're responsible for Tucker think they are now worked for Bill Kristol before that

Jordan (01:10:48.000)

Bill Kristol responsible about that they'd be

Dan (01:10:51.000)

so look bad, they're not covering the big story. Sure. Like, where's that money going into crane? Right, first of all they are and second, like, I never fully understand media criticism that is shaped like this. Like, why won't they tell you all the information all the time? Yeah. Is there not a responsibility on the part of some of your audience to seek information as opposed to it being delivered to you? I feel like, I feel like, again, this is an infantilization of the audience. Yeah. Like, if the demand of delivering you all the information all the time is not met, then they've failed you, right? It's just like, This is dumb.

Jordan (01:11:35.000)

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, because because it is an eternal thing that you can say there will never be all the information, all the information doesn't exist. You cannot get all the information from any source about anything, though, period. No. So you can always be like, well, they're not telling you everything fine. Yes, obviously. Because if you told me everything, my brain would explode, and you wouldn't read everything. No, tell me the stuff that I need to know. The problem is, nobody is like quite sure what you need to know. And that gray area is where Tucker works. You know,

Dan (01:12:12.000)

he also is adept at telling you or not telling you things that he thinks, yeah, no,

Jordan (01:12:19.000)

we don't need to tell you all that stuff. That would be really important context for you. Loving Putin,

Dan (01:12:23.000)

so not hear me out on this. Okay. The media does not cover the big stories that is, and in media, you're punished for being curious, but was about Dominion machine, but he's getting this information

Jordan (01:12:33.000)

from the media. Come again. I mean, he's telling us information that he learned from the media that he is saying.

Dan (01:12:44.000)

Do not see blog. fairpoint so look, fairpoint This is where everything gets real weird. Okay.

Tucker Carlson (01:12:52.000)

Not only are the media not interested in any of this, they are actively hostile to anybody who is in journalism, Curiosity is the gravest crime. Yesterday, for example, a former Air Force officer who worked for years and military intelligence, came forward as a whistleblower to reveal that the US government has physical evidence of crashed non human made aircraft, as well as the bodies of the pilots who flew those aircraft. The Pentagon has spent decades studying these otherworldly remains in order to build more technologically advanced weapons systems. Okay, that's what the former Intel officer revealed and it was clear he was telling the truth. In other words UFOs are actually real and apparently so is extraterrestrial life. Now we know in a no I'm sorry, which would qualify as a bombshell I'm sorry wham. But in our country, it doesn't.

Dan (01:13:50.000)

So you couldn't have guessed that was where

Jordan (01:13:52.000)

we're gonna I did not expect to hear that UFOs i Excuse me everybody the movie Independence Day. 100% of documentary Yes, that's exactly how it works. Area 51 You go underground there's aliens. Will Smith

Dan (01:14:08.000)

independent studies coming up so Will Smith is brought up and someone maybe more than one person pointed out that on our last episode during the walk shout outs I did not recognize the wheel Fresh Prince. Yeah. And I have to say I was not weirdly that was not a show that flew in our household and I Fresh Prince

Jordan (01:14:30.000)

of Bel Air was one of the restricted list he was the Simpsons the faces of death movies and fucking fresh breads

Dan (01:14:39.000)

and i i so many of the shows that were like we can't watch those had to do with like family systems that my parents thought we're sure we're like, dysfunctional, married with children or right and stuff. And I was like, is the first Prince really that like, like a dysfunctional family system like Is that a race thing? And it's not because we watch Family Matters all the time. Okay, so what I know they

Jordan (01:15:06.000)

were just like a nuclear family only because I mean the the the thing is Will Smith is from a troubled areas Philadelphia right. And then he goes to live with his exactly with his family. It's a very close knit family unit unit. There are a lot of really important moments for growth. It's fantastic.

Dan (01:15:28.000)

I suspect I was thinking about this, and I think it might have been a situation where my parents heard the song parents just don't understand and then do their parents. Yeah.

Jordan (01:15:39.000)

They're like, Well, if we don't, then we don't Yeah,

Dan (01:15:42.000)

and we refuse to shed we will not allow you to watch this man who maligns parents?

Jordan (01:15:47.000)

Unfortunately, we don't understand. And there also

Dan (01:15:51.000)

might have been I don't know that have just been like something that seemed to cool or something Fresh Prince.

Jordan (01:15:57.000)

I think I think what's funny about that by the bell, you instinctively got the meter though. Like when you read the fresh print, you did it in time. It was kind of interesting.

Dan (01:16:08.000)

Yeah, I am. Let's be let's be totally clear. Yeah, I am. Will Smith cinematic thing. His television work I'm not I don't know all that much. Well, what are you going to do but you talk to me about wild wild west. You talk to me about Bagger Vance.

Jordan (01:16:26.000)

Oh, boy, oh man

Dan (01:16:27.000)

struggling to breathe.

Jordan (01:16:31.000)

I think I think that I think I just acknowledging that movie exists is kind of racist. Now. You? I feel like we all just agree to pretend that movie didn't exist.

Dan (01:16:43.000)

What was it? Seven pounds? Was that him?

Jordan (01:16:47.000)

No, wasn't it seven grams. That's

Dan (01:16:48.000)

21 grams. 21 grams for movie.

Jordan (01:16:51.000)

This is the heart transplant one seven pounds is a heart is that? I don't know. I Am Legend. I know he wasn't in Independence. Day two.

Dan (01:16:58.000)

That's true. Yeah. So Tucker is complaining that you're punished if you're curious in journalism, but then he immediately unquestioningly accepts the word of a guy who's talking about UFOs and aliens. Yeah, it doesn't seem like what a curious person would do. No, it seems very painfully uncurious.

Jordan (01:17:15.000)

I just I get it. And he seems it's he's from the like, Air Force and all that stuff. And I get that they've all that stuff. But come on, man. Come on. Come on, man. So

Dan (01:17:26.000)

that's about a guy named David grush. Who's made these claims, but I've heard these claims before. Yeah. And they were bogus. Yeah, this could be something but also grush himself hasn't seen anything. He's reporting things he's heard. He has at best secondhand information, which Tucker is just accepting his gospel and like, oh, aliens are here, and we have their crafts. It's such a dumb way for him to try and score points on the media by implying that they don't talk about the important stories, and call you a kook if you're curious about this real shit. First of all, every news outlet ran stories about 100%.

Jordan (01:17:57.000)

It was he was a guy who came out and said that UFOs were real and the government if I can have them, of course, they're gonna run a story on that.

Dan (01:18:03.000)

I don't know what more coverage Docker could possibly want. I mean, come on, there's no evidence. So it's kind of a dead end at this point about where more coverage is gonna go weird. It's just a guy who's talking some shit about how he heard some shit. And he filed a report about it. That doesn't prove the existence of UFOs or aliens. But I guess for Tucker it does. And I have to say, this show is a lot stupider than I thought. Yeah. Like I went in with a little bit of a. I expected things to be blue, more grounded than Alex. Yeah. And I don't feel like they are I

Jordan (01:18:37.000)

here's what I here's my here's my feeling. All right, in general, with what I know about space, because I'm a big fan of space. I've read about it. Yeah, I've seen it. In the past. I've looked at it. It's up there. And down there. It's both. So the cool thing about it.

Dan (01:18:54.000)

So it's like Zelda

Jordan (01:18:56.000)

is that a lot of people a lot of the time whenever people like Tucker are like, well, we've got evidence that people made stuff from off this planet, and it landed here. And we've got the people who flew those ships, they generally don't understand quite how hard it is to travel through space. Like it's really hard. Like, really hard. See, what

Dan (01:19:19.000)

people don't understand is that you think it's just like air but in space. My last and

Jordan (01:19:23.000)

no one can hear you scream. And that's pretty much most of what you do.

Dan (01:19:27.000)

I do appreciate that. It's very difficult. No,

Jordan (01:19:31.000)

but it's really I mean, I know there's there's more words, but I can't I need to try and express this. I understand. Really difficult.

Dan (01:19:41.000)

But they also let's let's take a step back. All right. Tucker is mad that there isn't like coverage of this. Sure, but he's accepted that there are aliens and that we have UFOs right? Why isn't he freaking out? I would freak the fuck out. If you have internalized that to be true. Totally. Why are you doing a show on Twitter? Oh,

Jordan (01:20:00.000)

I mean, just the idea of just being like, see, end of segment like that's, that's what you've got here.

Dan (01:20:06.000)

Why are you mad about Ukraine?

Jordan (01:20:08.000)

We need to go. There's space people. Nice people. Nice people.

Dan (01:20:16.000)

Yeah, I just it seems dishonest.

Jordan (01:20:19.000)

If it if there were an alien craft that was capable of making it to this planet, and it landed either one, we would have no idea what we were looking at right or two, we would instantly understand how to travel through space. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. Yeah.

Dan (01:20:35.000)

And I think I think that his behavior implies that he is not as convinced by this evidence as he's pretending to be. Yeah. So look, man, why wasn't it on the front page, we need four page coverage.

Tucker Carlson (01:20:47.000)

In a normal country. This news would qualify as a bombshell the story of the millennium, but in our country, it doesn't. The whistleblowers account ran on a technology website called the debrief, which you've probably never heard of. The Washington Post had that story, but decided not to run it. The New York Times, meanwhile, just pretended it never happened. On the front page of The New York Times website this morning, there were five stories about Ukraine, as well as four stories a piece about Donald Trump, trans people and climate change the usual lineup. There was nothing at all about how an alien species is flying hypersonic aircraft over our cities. Not one word. Yeah, for good. So if you're wondering why our country seems so dysfunctional, this is a big part of the reason because

Dan (01:21:35.000)

we're not talking about aliens on the front page.

Jordan (01:21:37.000)

All right, next part. Next part again, aliens, not country specific. Not important to a country zero. Countries don't exist for aliens. If an alien lands, all the countries want to know, if this were the case, country

Dan (01:21:50.000)

has become a lot less meaningful if we have alien. Aliens. Why we put national borders seems silly.

Jordan (01:21:58.000)

At the very least France should be like the the EU should be like, Hey, if you guys have aliens, we need to talk about it. Right? Like if you want Why are you making it? Oh, in a real country? This would be bombshell. No, if it were real, it's bombshell news to everybody. Immediately. Yeah,

Dan (01:22:17.000)

why aren't you complaining about the majority and

Jordan (01:22:22.000)

Spiegel should be good front page. Oh my god. Germans hate aliens like me. It should be the insane,

Dan (01:22:27.000)

the front page of airspeed. All these articles about Trump

Jordan (01:22:31.000)

exactly like you don't get what it is. If you think that it's real, and

Dan (01:22:35.000)

again, this is all just belying the insincerity of the point that he's making. It's bullshit. It's absurd. Yeah. So look, they didn't cover aliens. Yeah. And that means that our media is like the Soviet Union.

Tucker Carlson (01:22:49.000)

It was nothing at all about how an alien species is flying hypersonic aircraft over our cities, not one word. So if you're wondering why our country seems so dysfunctional, this is a big part of the reason. Nobody knows what's happening. A small group of people, relevant information, and the rest of us don't know we're allowed to Yap all we want about racism. But go ahead and talk about something that really matters like Alien and keep it up. Sorry, let me why trust us. That's how they maintain control. When Western tourists first started traveling in large numbers to the Soviet Union in the early 1970s, they found that many Russians had a completely warped understanding of the United States. They thought that Americans lived in grinding poverty in a state of perpetual race war, and were desperate to flee to the freedom and prosperity of the Eastern Bloc. They thought this because that's what they had been told they had no way to know otherwise. The few Russians who understood what was really going on in the rest of the world had learned about it from listening to shortwave radio broadcasts, sometimes under the covers so the neighbors wouldn't hear. 50 years later, it is bewildering to consider the ironies here. We're the ones who live in ignorance. Now,

Dan (01:24:05.000)

this is incoherent. Apparently, because the New York Times didn't cover this UFO guy on their front page were subject to a crushing centrally controlled media like there wasn't the USSR. This is idiotic. But while we're on the subject of that story, Tucker is telling about the people in the USSR. Let's examine that for a second. He's saying that when Americans went over to Russia, Russian people had a misconception about Americans based on the media that they'd taken and the characterize them in a certain way for political reasons. That's interesting, because that's exactly what Tucker and Alex do. Would it surprise their audience to learn the blue cities aren't constantly on fire, they aren't swallowed up by a perpetual race war and our streets aren't actually covered with feces and needles. It might surprise them. Like those Russians were surprised

Jordan (01:24:50.000)

I'm gonna throw this out there. It kind of feels even like Tucker and Alex say things like, you know, this country is filled with poor are struggling people who are always on the verge of a race war. I feel like that's exactly what they say. Yep. So. So what do we do with that?

Dan (01:25:09.000)

I mean, we look at this and say

Jordan (01:25:13.000)

what how do you get that? That's not fair. That's not fair. There should be at the very least listen, I get it. You can lie fight. We're never going to get past truth or freedom of speech, whatever. Sure. I say there should be penalties. All right, dunk, tak i totally, I'm fine with penalties for this type of shit. You can't like, like that. Nikki Haley thing. If we have shit from you, 25 years ago doing this, you get a penalty? Well, in

Dan (01:25:39.000)

less that shit from you. 25 years ago, you have really wrestled with and owned up to and shown growth from because people can they can grow. And there is there is the potential for even Tucker Carlson back when he was you know, working for the Weekly Standard or on crossfire to recognize like a there's some some real shitty, problematic ways with the way that I engage with media and the attention that I try and accrue. Sure. He has not done that. And that's part of the reason why these 25 years ago are still fairly relevant.

Jordan (01:26:13.000)

Right. Right. And I feel like that's where we're getting into the issue.

Dan (01:26:17.000)

I actually think, yeah, what I would say what I want to say is with the Nikki Haley thing, as opposed to the, like the punishment, be like the dunk tank, let's say, That's not because of things you said 25 years ago, it's because you are saying that she said something and then playing a clip of her saying something else. Yes. If you do that dunk tank. Yes. I'm fine with that. Yeah, yeah. And then while you're in the dunk tank, we can bring up the things you said 25 years ago. Yeah, I mean, so you can think about it while you're underwater. Do you know,

Jordan (01:26:46.000)

here's the problem with the 25 years people can grow and change and all that stuff, is generally speaking, if nothing changes for them, they won't grow and change. So for a Tucker, why would he grow and change? He's only ever been richer and more famous as time has gone on? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so it's humans

Dan (01:27:05.000)

are, you know, somewhat unpredictable creatures. And sometimes it can involve life circumstances, it can involve it can involve learning. Sure, it can involve the relationship that you have with somebody that opens your eyes to a lot of stuff. You know, there, you know, money and success are not necessarily the only things that motivate a change. Sure. And so, I don't know, I look. The reality is that he hasn't done any of that now record requisite change that you would need to be like to understand what he's said.

Jordan (01:27:37.000)

The reality is dunk tank and dunk tank dunk tank. Yes. Yeah,

Dan (01:27:41.000)

I would say so. Yeah. But but the the thing of like, these, these people in the Soviet Union are being fed all this bullshit. Yeah. That they couldn't see outside of the fact that he and Alex do that. Yeah, is really annoying, you know, and those Russians thought that the Americans wanted to flee to the USSR. Yeah, but with people like Alex, I'm Tucker it's even funnier and worse. Alex and Tucker and all these other right wing shitheads like, you know, the Hannity's and what have you, they pretend that they want to flee the big cities themselves. Yep. And they don't know they're great. Yeah,

Jordan (01:28:20.000)

we love living here.

Dan (01:28:22.000)

It's It's absurd.

Jordan (01:28:24.000)

Yeah, I mean, like,

Dan (01:28:26.000)

I will be the first to admit that I say that I want to flee the big city, but it's not for political reasons. I know want a tree? Yeah. I don't want a bigger yard where I can maybe keep a funny animal. Yeah, like maybe get a camel.

Jordan (01:28:39.000)

O camel will be great. Yeah. I mean, not camel. You get a llama. You can't have a camel in Illinois. Watch me you're gonna have a llama and Elena watch. All right,

Dan (01:28:47.000)

I'll dress it up like the wiser. Um, but yeah, it's it's exploitative.

Jordan (01:28:56.000)

I don't think if I mean, again, penalty, if you're a propagandist. Fine. That's what you do. But you can't call out other propaganda. It's just wrong. It's just wrong. You should have to pretend to like everybody's telling the truth all the time. Otherwise, you sound crazy.

Dan (01:29:12.000)

Sure. I mean, what's your How about sneaking a can sneak in a can for

Jordan (01:29:16.000)

that? What? Are we only doing cloud based? Okay, then in that case, buzzer handshake giant hand from Jackass.

Dan (01:29:26.000)

You go back to that one periodically. I think you've suggested that a couple of times.

Jordan (01:29:29.000)

I know. But I mean, it's just it's sometimes you just it is, right.

Dan (01:29:35.000)

So here's the dismount. Yeah. And already, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's only like a 10 minute episode. That's what I've been going for almost an hour and a half. Of course, here. Here's where Tucker leaves us.

Tucker Carlson (01:29:47.000)

The US government has managed to classify more than a billion so called public documents. So at this point, we can't possibly know what our leaders are doing. We're not allowed to know. By definition that is not a democracy. receive the meeting let's once he is a power futsal of control. Stop asking how we got so rich. Here's another story about racism go eat each other. That's the program. Well, that's how most of us now live here in the United States, manipulated by lies, silenced by taboos. It is unhealthy and it's dehumanizing, and we're tired of it. As of today, we've come to Twitter, which we hope will be the shortwave radio under the blankets. We're told there are no gatekeepers here. If that turns out to be false, we'll leave. But in the meantime, we are grateful to be here. We'll be back with much more very soon.

Dan (01:30:37.000)

So yeah, he fancies himself the shortwave, under the blankets, which gave the people living in the USSR, the select few gave them an accurate presentation of what's going on in the world. Meanwhile, in reality, he's the media that's lying about what the Americans are actually living conditions Americans are actually living in Yeah, he's the polar opposite of the thing, the thing that he's metaphorically positioning himself as, and that's not too surprising. But it is a metaphor. And that is something that Alex can't handle. It's too, it requires too much. prepper or like, yeah, for thought to, to, to end on a boat. Like you put a bow on it. Yeah. You know, it's a shitty bow and the present sucks, but it is at least wrapped. Yeah.

Jordan (01:31:27.000)

Yeah. I mean, here's, here's what's fun. Here's what's fun. I think I like about Tucker and Alex together. All right. It is it is. So it is so much like a great example of the people think that if you graduated college, it's more about or whatever it is. This is such a clear version of like, Tucker was better at school. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? He's not he's not smarter than Alex. He's not, etc, or anything along those lines, Robin was better at doing the things at school.

Dan (01:32:01.000)

Well, he probably also had access to school that would be more pleasant, like Alex went to Austin Community College, and probably didn't see it as like a foray into anything that was going to be useful for him. Whereas Tucker went to like, all these elite private schools, and like, there was a path there. Totally. Alex, if Alex was in that situation, I could see him probably continuing Thursday.

Jordan (01:32:24.000)

Right, right. Well, I mean, it that's not that's not the point, the point that I'm making, the point that I'm making is that he is using the superficial trappings of education, to say, what is physical? What is meaningfully? No less, nothing more than what Alex says? Yeah. You know,

Dan (01:32:43.000)

from a content perspective, right, from a number of the tricks that Alex uses are identical. Yeah, yeah.

Jordan (01:32:53.000)

And so it is, it is one of those exemplars of the way that we treat appearance over substance, you know, like, because Tucker is better able at saying the same exact thing is Alex, in a way that is defensible or I mean, like, better or more educated or any number of different like, superficial differences. People allow him to get away with so much more shit. You know,

Dan (01:33:25.000)

maybe and also, maybe that is also a function of the privilege and social climate. Ain't that the truth? Yeah. And the decades of media? Yeah. Involvement and connections and such that he has. Yeah, but Alex doesn't. And it's just wild that he's lived down the bow tie. I come back to that a bit.

Jordan (01:33:50.000)

I know it's silly. It Should Have Ended. I thought it was going to end it would and

Dan (01:33:54.000)

somebody now Oh, I think I don't know the memes would never end that's probably

Jordan (01:34:00.000)

true. I mean, I genuinely I mean, I genuinely thought he was gonna go away. I really did think I really did think all the way back when I thought it was like 2004 I mean, yeah, in like 2005 2006 after after that whole thing. And they I thought he was just gonna be dropped, you know, I thought they were just gonna let it go. And then he got stronger. Tariffs took a while. It did take a while. Take a while.

Dan (01:34:25.000)

So I think that I have an interest in covering more of these. Yeah, I think that especially since it's a new thing that he's starting it does somewhat makes sense to monitor and track this thing. Yeah. I'd be interested in people's perspective on it. See what they think. I'd like to hear your thoughts when you think about it a little bit. Yeah. But I lost my thought. I'm not sure. I think that I guess this show is dumb. More than I thought. Yeah. I get I think that the bay Maybe talk is like the way he's talking down to the audience is pretty, pretty seen. Yeah.

Jordan (01:35:06.000)

I mean, it's it is like pornographic in its access.

Dan (01:35:11.000)

I was listening to that. And I was like, I just turned this off. Yeah, I would not put up with a commentator. Dare you, sir?

Jordan (01:35:18.000)

How dare you speak

Dan (01:35:19.000)

to me. Even if I agreed with the things he was saying I would find it really obnoxious talking to me in a really

Jordan (01:35:25.000)

fucked up way. I don't I don't appreciate this.

Dan (01:35:30.000)

Oh, and the other thought that I had was the the things that he's saying are potentially more explicit in terms of their connections to, you know, neo Nazi, white supremacist stuff, like, the ways that he was describing Zelinsky, for example, totally. They're more explicit. And I think that may be a function of the fact that he has to prepare us to write these things out. Whereas Alex is just running off the cuff. Yeah, and he'll say some things that are real fucked up in whatever you write. But he's often talking a mile a minute, and by the time he said them, this is on to something else. Yeah. Whereas this is very intentional, and very much like a The this is a choice to call him rat like a presser of Christian.

Jordan (01:36:14.000)

Yeah, no, if you if you wrote something down in advance, that is that is a little bit more meaningful than if you're just throwing shit at the top of your brain.

Dan (01:36:26.000)

Yeah, I have some wonder. I do wonder if this will last. The show. Yeah. Now, like, I don't know if it's financially viable. I don't know if he's gonna be able to satisfy the people he wants to reach. I know that that Andrew Anglin review is was not super complimentary as a whole. Yeah. Because he was like, yeah, he's saying all this stuff. That's right about Zelinsky. And Ukraine, and then he gets into UFOs. Yeah. Fucking idiot, or whatever. Yeah. So like there is there is a desire up from that Nazi base to see him go mask off. Yeah, and probably isn't going to do that. Who knows? To what extent Elon Musk and Twitter will allow? I mean, him to push whatever envelope there is. So I don't know. I feel it seems like a temporary stop gap, or whatever, Intel he can launch something else that he can make a ton of money. Yeah.

Jordan (01:37:30.000)

I mean, if your now is not the time to hitch your wagon to Twitter's future?

Dan (01:37:38.000)

No, but I but from what I understand the reason that he would do this is because he feels that this is not breaking his non compete clause, because Twitter isn't a competitor to Fox News. Sure. So that is like the way you get around it. Yeah, do this while you're in your non compete to keep people aware of you to keep your audience engaged. Yeah. And then as soon as that period is over, you go work for the blaze or something.

Jordan (01:38:03.000)

Yeah, he's not. He's not going to do with like a sub stack or something. That's not going to happen.

Dan (01:38:09.000)

I mean, I guess he doesn't own writer, but he, well, he has the Daily Caller. But he's, I don't think he owns that. Yeah, I think he might have sold it. Or he has some stake in it. No, he's

Jordan (01:38:19.000)

gonna, he's going to have to, I'm going to say this. He's gonna have to do his own thing. And he's gonna have to do it for a lot longer than 10 minutes. And that's gonna be the worst part of it. People.

Dan (01:38:35.000)

It seems like it would be so easy to continue to do his show. There are so many young aspiring bigots who are capable and no tech, and we'll be able to get him up and running.

Jordan (01:38:47.000)

Yeah, I just don't understand why he wouldn't just be like, Okay, fine. I'm making my show. And I'll just put it out on something. Just make your thing, man.

Dan (01:38:55.000)

Uh, maybe that would be violating the non compete, but then it would seem like Tucker or Twitter would be too. Yeah, I don't know. I'm interested to see how it plays out from just a like, what are you gonna do standpoint? Right. But this isn't sustainable now on its own? No. So we'll see what happens under the covers with the shortwave. Yeah, great in the future, but, you know, only only if we feel like, it seems like we feel like I expected you to have a much worse time with it.

Jordan (01:39:25.000)

No, no, no, this was this is doable. All right. Well, that's good. I think I think there's something valuable to be had in in this. Yeah.

Dan (01:39:34.000)

I think it adds to the conversation that we have. Yeah,

Jordan (01:39:37.000)

I think there's a I think the, the ecosystem that this exists in now has to be viewed as in conversation with itself. Yeah. Like, I don't think we can live in a space where we can act like Infowars is its own universe anymore. This is all in conversation with itself, you know, so there's no to me there's no separation anymore. You know, like Fox News is Infowars Is this is that because they're all communicating with each other and adjusting themselves based around their equilibrium with each other? You know, like they're all part of the same thing. Yeah. So anything that we talked about now we're also talking about Infowars.

Dan (01:40:15.000)

Yeah, its relationship to connections. It's subtle differences. But there, you know, there are only so many things that fit within the purview of like what we do. Sure, sure. And I do think that this somewhat does still fit. Yeah. You know, covering something that's on Fox News doesn't quite feel right. For one, because it's mostly a visual medium. Yeah, this might as well be audio.

Jordan (01:40:39.000)

I mean, it's Twitter. Yeah.

Dan (01:40:41.000)

And so yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Anyway, we'll be back to Alex's dealing with the indictments. But until then, we have a website. Indeed

Jordan (01:40:49.000)

we do. It's and I'll try.com Yep. We're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, nobody's on Twitter. Is that

Dan (01:40:56.000)

right? Yep. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Neil and Leo DCX. Clark ski doo boop boop boop boop BiPAP. I've made peace with scatting Oh, you know what?

Theme Song (01:41:04.000)

And now here comes the sex robots. Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.