Transcript/249: Predicting 9/11
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Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.
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Hello Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.
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I love you. Hey everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan.
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We're a couple dudes. Like to sit around, drink novelty beverages,
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and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed we are. Dan.
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Hey. Dan. Yeah. Did you ever get kicked out of class?
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Yeah. Oh, so many times. So many times? So many. I dropped out of high school.
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I got kicked out. I know. Well, I know you dropped out of high school.
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And not welcome back to classes just for skipping so much. Stuff like that. Yeah.
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Dropping out of high school is like getting kicked out of one big class. It's not...
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I don't know. I guess the one that I remember the most was there was a math class that I was in. I
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think junior year of high school. That was the year that I skipped most of. And I had a teacher,
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Mr. Sharp, who was a real... I mean, he's a math teacher in high school. So of course,
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he's a bit of a dork. Right.
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And he had little catch phrases that he would use about math that he was teaching.
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Okay. He'd always talk about the reality piece of this.
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Oh, boy. He'd always be like,
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when we look at the hypotenuse, you got to understand the reality piece
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is that the length is based on the other lengths.
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I don't know what the reality piece in that is supposed to signify.
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It was his way of saying like, this is what you need to focus on.
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Right. Right, right, right. I got you.
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And I think I had missed a bunch of days. He's like, you're not going to pass this class if
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you don't come to class. I was like, well, the reality piece is that I don't really care.
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Get out. Get out. So that was one of them.
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That was worth it. You know what, for a line like that, that's worth it.
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That's worth dropping out of high school.
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Every bit of that, for that to be a real line that you said in the moment, worth it.
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It felt pretty good. I think it presaged my getting into stand-up comedy a little bit.
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Something along those lines.
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Yeah. I don't know, man. My high school career was just chock full of me being overly gifted
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in many ways. Like I could pass tests super easily, write essays on stuff I didn't really
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know much about, but then like just be like just the worst student. Just not coming and just.
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What would you skip out and do?
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I mostly laid in bed. I was very depressed.
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Oh, okay. Well, then that's fine.
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Super depressed.
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Oh, no, no, no. I skipped out. I thought you were skipping out.
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I wasn't a bad ass or anything. I guess you could get that image based on the way I was
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telling that story.
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Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's like, I skip class all the time. I'm so fucking cool.
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There's mostly mental wellness, but it has the appearance of being cool or something.
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See, that was my trick, man. I would go to school and I would just sleep in class.
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There you go. That's smart.
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That was the trick.
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Dropped out of high school, did go to college. Everything's cool.
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I stayed in high school, went to college, never graduated.
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Hey, look at us. So who's the winner here?
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I don't know. Neither.
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Both?
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Anyway, despite our educational backgrounds being very different,
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there's a podcast where I know a lot about Alex Jones.
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And I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones.
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That is correct. And today we have an interesting episode to go over,
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something a little bit different that I got inspired to do.
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We'll get into why exactly as we go along. But first, something else that inspires me.
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You're not far off.
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It's pretty close.
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Okay. But the thing else that inspires me is our listeners and our donors.
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And I'd like to give a shout out to a couple of new people who have signed up to support the show.
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First of all, Rosie, thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Rosie.
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Thank you very much for taking time out of your very, very busy riveting schedule.
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You mean the schedule is riveting.
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It is exciting.
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Impossible to tear your attention away.
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Indeed. Next, Alexander, thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Alexander.
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Next, Mark. Thank you. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Mark.
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Thanks, Mark.
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John B. You're going to make a sloop John B joke?
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Nope.
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You're about to, aren't you?
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I was not.
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You're close.
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I genuinely was not.
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John B. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much, John B. Sloop. Sloop.
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Colin, thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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And finally today, Jordan, we have to make right something that once went wrong.
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We have to right a wrong?
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We do. Yes. The way that I get these emails, sometimes things are like end up in the wrong
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folder. Like sometimes the people, the emails that people have donated to the show, it ends
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up in my like promotions tab in my Gmail. And so sometimes things, but then also another
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thing that happens is that if someone has an account that maybe someone else's name
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is on, that other person will get the shout out.
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Ooh.
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And we made a mistake in the past.
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Oh shit.
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Uh, and we need to correct that wrong. So Emma, thank you. You're a policy wonk, but
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in honor of our mistake, we are going to make you an honorary technocrat.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Four stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.
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Someone, someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.
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Daddy shark.
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Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.
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He's a loser. Little, little kitty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce
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Jesus Christ.
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Thank you so much, Emma.
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Thank you very much.
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Sorry. Mia Colpa.
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What? I don't understand. I don't remember.
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I believe it's wrong. Emma.
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No, her husband's name was on the account. As I understand it.
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What is this? The 18th century where the man is the one who controls the patriarchal bullshit.
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Yeah, but we're trying our best to make things right.
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Absolutely.
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Anyway, if you'd like to support the show and what we do, you can go to our website,
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knowledgefight.com. Click that button to support the show. We would appreciate it.
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Make sure you get your husband's permission first.
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Hey, hey now. So, Jordan, today, the reason I went down a little bit of a different road
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here with this is that on our last episode, Alex was really going hard about this idea
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of these hacked documents that prove 9-11. We discussed how it's clearly a cyber extortion
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racket and that Alex is way off base on this. It's definitely not something he should be
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supporting even if he supports the hypothetical content of those emails and insurance documents
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and stuff like that. So I started to think about 9-11 and Alex Jones' ownership of the space
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because that was another thing on that last episode, a lot of the ideas of him trying
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to reclaim QAnon. And so I was ruminating on that and I realized that we've talked about how he
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produced loose change, final cut, and what have you. And he's been on the forefront of 9-11
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conspiracy theory since the event, quite frankly, but day one. And so what I wanted to do is I
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wanted to talk about how he claims that he predicted 9-11. And I want to go into that
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a little bit and try and assess exactly if we want to give him credit for that.
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It's sort of up in the air a little bit. Oh, oh, do you mean are we going to give him credit
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for having actually applied analysis that functioned the way it was supposed to? I'm not
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sure even if that's how I would phrase it. I'm going to say that we've just taken as read the
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idea that he predicted 9-11 because he says he did. Right. So today we're going to start on July
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25th, 2001, when Alex got on air and did what he says is him predicting 9-11. Oh, that was the date
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that he said that he's predicted. Okay. July 25th, 2001, here is from Alex Jones's mouth.
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Hello, ladies and gentlemen, I'm so glad that you could join us today for this Wednesday, July 25th,
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2001 broadcast. Tyranny is enveloping the globe and the United States is a shining jewel the
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globalists want to bring down and they will use terrorism as the pretext to get it done. So that's
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coming up in the second half of the show. Very important information. I'm going to put the call
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out that you call the White House and tell them, look, we've seen the news stories that you've
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wanted to blow things up, that you have blown things up and that you're saying that 4 million
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of us are going to die and we need martial law and the Associated Press and one of your little
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drills you had and that we're aware of who the terrorists are if you pull this. This can stop
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this Hitlerian Reichstag event. I want to put the toll-free number up for Congress and I won't want
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you to believe Alex Jones. I want you to go get these news stories off my website. I want you to
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call these major newspapers. I want you to find out these statements were true by the White House
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about preparing for martial law and I want you to let them know that if there is any terrorism,
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we know who to blame. The point is, if any terrorism comes, it's from this government
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and if there was an outside threat like a bin Laden who was a known CIA asset in the 80s
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running the Mujahideen war and whose family builds all the military bases over in Saudi Arabia right
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now and sits on the board of Iridium satellite, he's the boogeyman they need in this Orwellian
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phony system. I want the White House numbers up there now. A big part of this solution after you
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research all the government terrorism and check out what I'm saying is true, call the White House
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and tell them we know the government's planning terrorism. We know Oklahoma City and World Trade
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Center was terrorism. We know the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to blow up airliners, Baltimore Sun.
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If you do it, we're going to blame you because we know who's up to it or if you let some terrorist
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group do it like the World Trade Center, we know who to blame and you could save the planet.
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So that's most of the substance of him predicting 9-11 on June 25th, I'm sorry, July 25th, 2001.
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So we have some pieces in there. He does bring up Osama bin Laden.
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Indeed.
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He does bring up the World Trade Center.
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Of course.
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But you can tell clearly from context that he's talking about the 93 attack.
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Yeah.
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He's talking about that as an example of something that he thinks is fake. And also you can tell,
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like when he's talking about blowing up airplanes, he's not talking about that in a predictive
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capacity. He's talking about a past event.
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Yeah. He's talking about the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanting to blow up airplanes, not
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a future, the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They're still, they still, well, in his defense,
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they may never have stopped wanting to blow up.
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Right. Right.
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So there is that.
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Right.
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He doesn't say there was an end date on when they wanted to blow up.
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I'm not, I'm not going to take too much away from him because there are a lot of specifics
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in there, certainly.
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Surprisingly.
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There's, well, I mean, it's not specifics in terms of him saying this is going to happen.
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This is gonna, who's gonna do it. This is where it's gonna be or anything like that.
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But it's more, it's more substance than you generally would expect from Alex Jones.
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You're missing it. You didn't get it. It's numerology. Every word that he used either
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has nine letters or 11 letters.
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That's interesting.
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It's all in there.
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It's supreme mathematics.
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Yeah. It's incredible.
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It is interesting that that is not the case. But it's, it is interesting to me that there's,
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you know, it sounds a lot just like any Alex show, quite frankly.
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Yeah.
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And it just so happens to have been a bit before 9-11. That's kind of the feel I get
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in terms of like screaming about how the government's preparing to stage terror attacks
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and stuff like that. It's like, you could choose almost any day of the week. Alex is
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going to have said something similar to that.
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If he, if he, no, but here's the thing. If he had done this exact same episode in 2003,
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it still would have made the exact same amount of sense.
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He did do this episode in 2003. I'm certain that he did.
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That's right. Yeah. Cause of course he's going to say that Osama is going to attack again.
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He doesn't even crystal clearly say that.
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He doesn't.
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He's saying that Osama bin Laden is a boogeyman of some, of some sort.
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Which is only stronger after he commits the second attack on the world trade.
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Second.
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Yes.
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That is also important to consider.
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Yeah.
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So he also is comparing the idea of some terrorist attack that's to come as a Hitlerian Reichtag
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fire, which is an important thing to keep in mind as we go along. So here, here's the
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interesting thing. There's another guy in the conspiracy world, a gentleman by the name
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of Bill Cooper. I don't know if you've ever heard of Bill Cooper.
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I do not know anything about Bill Cooper.
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Well, let me tell you a little bit.
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I know a little bit about Derek Bill Cooper.
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Who's that?
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DB Cooper.
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Oh, William Cooper, Bill Cooper. Also first name Milton, but it goes by Bill William.
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He was a good change.
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Good change.
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Certainly.
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He was a pioneer of the paranoid militia broadcasting world and is absolutely an early
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hero of Alex Jones's. There's literally no way around that from January, 1993 to the
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time of his death in November, 2001, Bill Cooper distributed his own radio show hour
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of the time as a daily show, then later on a weekly basis. He covered it all. He dabbled
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in UFOs and mystery religions, but more importantly to the world we look at, he was also deeply
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interested in the idea of a one world government being formed. He was a staunch defender of
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Randy Weaver, the central figure at Ruby Ridge, and did frequent episodes about how Oklahoma
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City and Waco didn't go down the way the government said they did. He covered the
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difference between gold and silver as hard money versus the idea of soft currency and
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paper money. On a March 11th, 1993 show, he did an episode about the intentional devaluation
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of the dollar. He covered the Federal Reserve and how income taxes aren't real. He railed
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on socialists and spread suspicion about the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral
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Commission as far back as 1993 when Alex was 19 years old and still years away from ever
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being on the radio. On a February 18th, 1994 episode, Bill Cooper interviewed Sheriff Richard
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Mack, a central figure of the constitutional sheriff movement and someone who would go
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on to be a frequent guest on Alex's show in the future. There are a lot of overlaps between
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guests too, including Aaron Zelman, the president of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms,
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someone who was an early sponsor of Alex Jones' show.
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Right. That's a mouthful. They should shorten that.
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I mean, it really gets to the point. I mean, they're Jewish and they want to preserve the
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right to have guns. Right. How about Jews keep guns? It's like
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cars for kids. I don't know.
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It's got a better ring to it. It might be too tight.
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So all this is to say that if you look spiritually at the stuff that Bill was putting out into
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the world, there's no way to think that Alex wasn't a big fan of his and probably was deeply
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inspired by him. Was he a nationally syndicated guy or was
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he around the southern market? He was a guy who had like a shortwave show,
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but it was it would go around, you know, it made the rounds. It was big. It wasn't just
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some sort of local thing. That's just what I wanted to be.
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No, no, no, no. He was a very big deal. And he wrote a book called Behold a Pale Horse
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that I don't know if this is true, but he he says it, that it's the number one most
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underground distributed book in the world in all of history because he has no marketing
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numbers on. There's no marketing, nothing really behind him or anything.
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It's a it's a very, very popular book in these worlds.
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OK, so who's who's doing that census? Who's doing it? What is it? The New York Times
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number one ranked unregistered bestseller? Sure. They don't do one of those. Sure.
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Why not? What is it? A fucking e-book sales? No, it's the 90s.
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I don't know. I don't know how you quantify it, but it is a very huge book. And here's
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the part where I should probably just come clean on a little bit of something.
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And that is, I don't know a ton about Bill Cooper. Does anybody?
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Yeah, I am going to learn a lot more of him in the future. But as at press time, I don't
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fucking know a whole lot about him. I know some of his beliefs. I know a lot of it matches
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up with Alex. And then there's a lot of stuff that Alex poo poos and tries to be like, no,
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absolutely not like the UFO stuff. Yeah. Alex isn't into that. But even though secretly
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he's super into that. But Bill was into that. Now, granted, it seems over the course of
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his career that he pivoted more towards the militia and Patriot type stuff as time went
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on at the expense of his interest in UFOs. All right. Question. Quick question.
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But also, Alex is a huge fan of like Coast to Coast and George Norie and stuff like that.
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And they talk about ghosts and aliens all day long. Of course. So it can't be a turn
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off for him. Anyway, that's my point is like, I'm sure I'm positive Alex loved his show.
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When did Alex. So this dude died in 2001. November 2001. He got killed by. He died in
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November 2001 and he was killed by the police. Well, to be fair, he shot to a cop in the
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head twice and then got killed by the police because he'd been living on the land because
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he refused to pay his taxes and was charged with bank fraud. And the police were like,
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we're not going to fucking fulfill that warrant because we're afraid of an armed standoff.
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Right. So the police, they decided to try and lure him out of his house with a loud
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car. No, a loud car that he would come and like tell people to be quiet. Right. That
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sort of thing. Because they wanted to lure him away from his house because they knew
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he had weapons caches there. So they did that. Was Wile E. Coyote running the SWAT team at
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the time? They only did this because he had, they'd gotten reports that he'd been threatening
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local residents with weapons. Yeah. Just his being around as a threat.
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They'd gotten some complaints like, well, we got to finally go through with this warrant.
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So they do this. He shows up at the car. They announced themselves as police officers and
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he starts shooting at them. And so they end up killing him. Which is not the best way
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for things to go down, but he had made it very clear that he didn't believe that he
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needed to be arrested for the tax evasion and bank fraud. Of course not. Capital letters.
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And that he was totally right in all that. Of course he is. He has a gun.
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And he had said that he's not going to be taken alive. So he had already made it clear.
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And in an email to a friend not too long before it all went down, he had said, I'm going to
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take as many down with me as I can. So they had every reason to suspect this is probably
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what's going to happen. And the idea of letting him get to his house or something like that
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is a real no-no for the police. So I'm not, I never like it when the police kill anybody.
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Right. I kind of get it. If you shoot a cop twice in the head,
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you're who survived as I understand. Oh, that's nice. Thank you.
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But still, if you shoot. That makes the story way better for me.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's so anyway, that happened in November, 2001.
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Right. Right. See the way that you described his radio career, it seemed more like he had
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died of natural causes because he was a precursor to Alex Jones. But apparently he was just like
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a sovereign citizen, like a regular sovereign. Did he still work on the radio?
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Well, there's no way you can keep your job with a warrant on you for tax evasion.
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He can if you're doing like shortwave himself. And live on the lamb.
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Well, he wasn't living on the lamb so much as he was in an uneasy truce with the police.
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Right. In terms of like, they think this is going to be too much trouble to execute the
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warrant and it's just a financial crime. Yeah.
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So until he's a danger to people around there, then it almost doesn't make sense.
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So, okay. Now, alternate theory. Okay.
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All right. He too predicted the 9-11 attacks. He did.
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But he got it right on. He said almost the same thing as Alex.
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So the government realized that in order to prop Alex up, who was an operative of the CIA
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and still is, and has always been under government control, has controlled opposition. That's why
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he's too nice to Israel, according to Stormfront. The reason that they left Alex alive was to take
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over for Bill Cooper's spot. And they killed Bill Cooper two months after 9-11, Dan.
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I understand where you're going with this, but that's just dumb.
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The timeline matches up. The timeline matches up.
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I think the reality is both of them could have continued to exist,
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doing whatever the fuck they're doing. Did Alex kill Bill Cooper?
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No, but some people have suggested that sort of thing, which is just that sort of unhinged,
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untethered criticism of Alex that I resent so much.
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Right, right, right. There are people who are like, yeah, he's part
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of the system and he had them take out Bill Cooper so he could rise.
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More or less what you're saying. I was being extremely facetious.
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I should have assumed that that conspiracy theory was alive and well.
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There are some people who put that forth, which is really dumb.
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So the reason that I'm bringing Bill Cooper into this, and admittedly, like I said,
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I don't know a ton about him. I'm excited to learn more about him as we go along because,
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spoiler alert, the entire archive of his radio show is available online.
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I was just about to ask. So he might become another wacky
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Wednesday character. I was just about to ask,
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and now I'm very excited for Bill Cooper. And because all of his shows are online,
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we can know that on June 28th, 2001, a month before Alex predicted 9-11 on his show,
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Bill Cooper went on his show, Hour of the Time. The whole thing is a fraud!
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After the anniversary... Also, I don't know how you have the
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rights to play Kiss from a Rose, but I'm going to leave that aside for a second.
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In a short way....of the Oklahoma City bombing,
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we were bombarded with anti-patriot, anti-Malaysia, anti-constitutionalist,
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that's people who believe in the Constitution for the United States of America,
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anti-American propaganda. And then when the execution of Timothy McVeigh occurred,
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once again, prior to, and immediately following, the same thing occurred again,
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and this word extremist was used over and over and over and over and over and over and over
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and over and over again. How many times?
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And now we're being bombarded with messages that
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Osama bin Laden is planning to attack the United States of America and Israel.
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And I'm telling you, be prepared for a major attack.
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But it won't be Osama bin Laden.
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It will be those behind the New World Order, who once again
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want to take the guns and the freedom away from the American people because
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we're the only ones left in the world who can oppose the destruction of freedom in the world
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and the implementation of a one-world totalitarian socialist government,
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and that is the goal.
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So you have basically here him predicting much more specifically.
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And way better, yeah.
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More specifically, and also preemptively laying out the
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inside job false flag narrative already a month before Alex's supposed prediction.
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New theory.
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Alex got his hands on the Sumerian ritual to steal a man's brain.
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Interesting.
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Immediately after this episode, he led Bill Cooper out into the forest,
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said the ancient rites, looked directly into his eyes and sucked out of his soul, right?
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And that's why after 9-11, he lost his mind.
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And the whole thing makes perfect sense.
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Spoiler alert.
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After 9-11, Bill Cooper didn't lose his mind necessarily.
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He lost a lot.
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His actions in terms of that standoff with the police.
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Totally consistent.
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Very much so.
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He's had several standouts.
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It's right in character.
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You don't want to say that a man is comfortable with a Mexican standoff by experience,
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but he sounds like he would be.
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Yeah.
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So a little bit later in that same June 28th, 2001 episode,
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you'll hear Bill lay out almost entirely what Alex's 9-11 narrative will end up being.
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And you'll hear a little bit of a similar theme
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to Alex's month later prediction that he makes about 9-11.
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Hitler could not have ever come to power, absolute power in Germany, without the Reichstag fire.
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Hitler was a socialist.
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He understood social illusion.
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He understood social engineering.
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He knew how to get the support of the German people,
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and he did it by burning down the Reichstag.
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The Reichstag was, well, in our country,
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it would be the Capitol building that contains the Senate and the House of Representatives.
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So, if somebody were to go and burn down the Capitol building today,
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they would use that as an excuse, as Hitler did,
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to round up all of the enemies of the New World Order,
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which would be me and most of you listening,
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throw us into prison or execute us,
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declare martial law, and come to absolute and total power in this country.
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I wonder what Osama bin Laden's targets are supposed to be.
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And if they don't, you know, if this doesn't materialize in the next two or three weeks,
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it will eventually materialize,
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because they haven't succeeded in getting the guns out of the hands of the American people,
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nor have they succeeded in taking our freedoms away.
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In fact, there's been a great awakening in this country,
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and a big backlash against these Marxist, communist,
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puke-faced, lying, subversive, Nazi, jackbooted, Gestapo fugs
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that is gaining momentum.
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Where's Lionel at?
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Did somebody steal his thesaurus, too?
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Might have.
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But you can see a little bit of Alex even there,
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like you can see a little bit of, like, minus a bit of the bombast.
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Sure, or explosive showmanship, or whatever you want to call it.
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You can see the, like, calling these people, uh, jackbooted, bombast fugs.
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You know, there's a little bit of that.
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And then the theme of, uh, they're doing these terrorist attacks in order to,
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uh, you know, bring in, taking our guns away.
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That sort of thing is just so central.
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And even the idea that, like, this anti-New World Order movement is gaining traction,
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and that's why they're gonna have to do this
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in order to cut it off at the pass.
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Right.
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Or whatever.
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That's so central to Alex's, uh, version of things
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that it's almost impossible to imagine that he didn't listen to this episode
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and then a month later crib it a little bit.
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Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it.
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That is kind of my big theory in terms of, uh, these, these two instances from 2001
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Right.
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of very paranoid men, uh, quote-unquote, predicting 9-11.
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Okay, so two things.
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One, I don't like that you've turned everything that I believed Alex Jones to be into a lie
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because even his fucking origin stories are stolen now.
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Totally.
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Every one of them.
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Oh, yeah.
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He's dead to me.
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Every, every little feather in his cap is pretty much.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, there's, there's, uh, there's some lie behind everything.
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You fucking find it.
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You fucking find it.
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You have totally and completely dismantled this man's mythology.
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Somewhat.
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And I'd also like to give a shout out to a listener and a buddy prop do who, uh, it was
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very helpful in, uh, you know, getting into a little bit of this stuff and it would be,
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it would not be right of me to talk about a lot of this without giving a shout out.
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Fuck yeah.
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Good work, man.
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Yeah.
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Uh, the other things, uh, one, I don't like that he had trouble reading constitutionalist.
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That doesn't seem like a difficult word to read.
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I think he was, I think that was for dramatic effect.
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I don't think so.
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I think that was struggling to read.
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Uh, all right.
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Agree to disagree.
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And two, he sounds super good at his job.
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He is reasonable as fuck.
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I was listening to him and I was like, all right.
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There's a, I think, I think if we listened to a lot more episodes, you'd have less of
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that.
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So now I want to find out if he's right about everything.
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He's not, he is.
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He's secretly right about everything.
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I can say no, uh, he's not, but there is an interesting trend that goes through a lot
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of episodes of his show where callers call in and ask him about something and he'll push
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back on them in sort of the reverse way that Alex does, which ends up being one of his
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chief complaints about Alex Jones later on, which is the idea that Alex just listens to
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rumor and reports it as truth.
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So he ends like on his show where someone calls in, let's say someone calls in and says
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that Tennessee Department of Transportation is out on the streets or something like that.
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He's not going to believe them.
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Whereas Alex will then turn that into one of his stories.
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So I don't believe that Bill Cooper knows a lot or is right about things.
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What if he is?
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No.
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Okay, fine.
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But he does have more of a measured approach to broadcasting at least.
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Right.
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Which is why he was never going to become as successful as Alex.
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Probably not.
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And he was an older man already.
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You know, there's, there's other reasons why Alex would be.
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The fact that he hadn't paid his taxes for a bunch of years.
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That does hurt your abilities to syndicate probably.
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I would assume there's active warrants out from your arrest.
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You probably can't go down to KJFK or KLBJ and start broadcasting.
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I'm telling you, give me a job on your...
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Dude, we're going to have to, we're going to have to garnish your wages before you start.
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And also turn you over to the cops.
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We shouldn't be having this interview right now.
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He would have been, I could sell gold.
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He would have been a perfect other than Alex person for Ted Anderson to get.
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But I think based on the sort of just the reality of who he is and how like, well, you're
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wanted.
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I don't think you can, I don't think you could do that if you're Ted.
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Now I'm mad because he's like an even more under, he's the number one, most best-selling
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underground author.
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He's even more bad-ass than Alex is.
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So there's a little bit of a beef between Alex Jones and Bill Cooper.
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It exists within the Patriot militia worlds and all of their listeners know that.
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So this is really...
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Okay, all right, all right.
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This is Drake, this is Drake Kanye.
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And this is more what I want to talk about because as I've said repeatedly, I don't have
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a good grasp on Bill Cooper, but I do have a grasp on Alex Jones.
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And it's interesting to see this figure come into his world in such a demonstrable, Alex
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is wrong kind of way.
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In the same way, in the sense that like the first part is it looks pretty clear that Alex
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number one has to be a huge fan of his rate of the hour of the time.
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Yeah.
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Second, he almost certainly stole that 9-11 prediction.
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Right.
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Now at some point along the line, this has to be after Bill Cooper was dead, but I'm
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not sure exactly the year.
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Alex gets a call about Bill asking about, what do you think about Bill Cooper?
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Let me ask you one thing.
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What did you think of Bill Cooper?
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Well, Bill Cooper was an alcoholic and I didn't ever try to attack him.
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He got mad because the network put me on at night and he thought, and I really, really
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never heard his show because I didn't listen to a lot of Freud, I was busy, but I've seen
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his book.
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It was all about flying saucers, so I didn't finish it.
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Somebody had given it to me on Access TV like in 96.
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And then he really started attacking me in 98 because he was an egomaniac.
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And you know, talking about flying saucers in the ocean and aliens and all this stuff,
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and I've tried to never attack him, but people resurrected old tapes he edited of me and
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stuff.
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Okay, all right, now I'm interested.
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Well, the alien stuff is fair criticism or whatever.
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I mean, I haven't read all of his book to know too much, but from what I understand,
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he believes that Eisenhower met with aliens and agreed to let them kidnap people and stuff
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like that.
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Yeah, that was in a Futurama episode and that sounds right.
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So he's in that sort of camp.
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And so Alex is not too far off in terms of being like, guy was a little bit nuts.
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Yeah, that might be fair.
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We haven't listened to a lot of him.
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He has sounded correct on everything so far.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:00.880)
The editing clips together thing is in reference to Bill Cooper after the Y2K episode of Alex
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Jones's show cut together some instances of Alex being very out of line on Y2K, which
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we covered on, I think, our second episode, Alex's behavior on Y2K.
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And Alex takes great issue with the fact that Bill Cooper did episodes of his own show,
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Hour of the Time, about how fucked up Alex's behavior on Y2K was.
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Holy shit.
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Yeah.
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Wait, so hold on.
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So somehow Will Cooper is both the underlying inspiration for Alex Jones, his progenitor,
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if you will, and yet at the same time ours too?
Unknown Speaker (00:32:45.680)
Yeah, it is weird that way, isn't it?
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That is bananas.
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Within the seed of his creation, so was the seed of his destruction, Dan.
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It is interesting.
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My working theory on it is that Alex Hero worshiped Bill Cooper to a great degree in
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terms of his position in the Patriot community, his militia stuff.
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He sought to become Bill but greater or something like that.
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Then they started to interact in some way and it went bad and Bill didn't like Alex.
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It saw through his shit and that made Alex furious.
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That's my theory.
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So there's more to this call, though.
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I just feel sorry for Bill and he really let him set him up and ran out there and helped
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him kill him.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:30.720)
It's just a big distraction, sir.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:32.079)
I don't talk about flying saucers and all that stuff, man.
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I'm sorry.
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And it's all like an ego thing, like it's two football teams and who's for who.
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I'm sorry for Bill.
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But anybody, I mean, he was a liar, though.
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You know, one time I had him on the radio and he was cussing and I delayed him once.
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Then I said, please don't cuss again.
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I'm delaying him.
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And I said, okay, thank you.
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Bye bye.
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And then he went around saying he never cussed.
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The guy cussed on air.
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He cussed at everybody.
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He was yelling at the board op going, you effing little idiot, you know, I told you
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to call this number to effing have me on.
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And then he says that he didn't, you know, the guy, he was a pathetic drunk and I don't
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like attacking people, but if you really want to know, that's it.
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Is that your answer?
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You like that answer?
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Anything else, sir?
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That, uh, I believe, I mean, I know you're putting out a lot of truth out there and I'm
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not the, I'll tell you the best.
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Look, man, some dead drunk and I drink a few beers too.
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But the point is he would get falling down drunk.
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Okay.
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And I was nice.
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He said the IRS was after him and he did help.
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I call him up and go, Hey, this is Alex Jones.
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Like to interview you, get you some help with the IRS.
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And he goes, I've heard you, you little S H I T.
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You don't know as much as I do.
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And I said, well, I'd like to have you on and help you out with the IRS.
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I mean, that's what I get for helping him is him doing that.
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And then, and then, and then, and then you call me seven years after he's dead and ask
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me about him.
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It isn't about bill Cooper.
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Okay.
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It's about Northcom, the new world order, get our heads screwed on straight, deal with
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the issues.
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I asked callers to call in and talk about what we're going to do about what's coming
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down on us, not a dead alcoholic, crazy person.
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So that should give you some sort of a indication of how triggered Alex is when anybody even
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just brings up the name bill Cooper.
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Alex's daddy issues are intense, varied, and all across the board.
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But don't you find that interesting?
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Like the caller just asked, what do you think of bill Cooper?
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Alex launches into that with no help from the caller.
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The caller isn't like, I love bill Cooper or anything like that.
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And even halfway through the callers like, Alex, I believe you.
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I trust you.
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You know, like he's saying, oh, that's interesting.
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I'm on your side.
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And Alex is still defensive about it.
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He hates it when anybody brings up bill Cooper.
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And the reason for that is Alex is fucking totally lying.
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Absolutely categorically, totally lying.
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Bill Cooper has been on Alex Jones's show exactly one time in 1998.
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So that's before the Y2K stuff.
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Yeah.
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And when he was on, it did not go the way Alex says it did.
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Absolutely not.
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There is no indication that he cusses at all.
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He was on the radio for over 40 minutes, not including commercial breaks.
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So he was probably on an entire hour of Alex's show in 98, which might've been his whole
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show back then, quite frankly.
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I don't know how long he was broadcasting back then, but here is how the interview starts.
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No shit.
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You've got the interview.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:31.360)
Yup.
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I'm so fucking excited.
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Mr. Cooper.
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Hello.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:34.960)
Yeah.
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That's one of my friends just called in.
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He's got an Apache over his house with camera pods and infrared taking film.
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We're going to play that on our TV show.
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This is just wonderful.
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We get followed around by unmarked police cars, openly taking 35 millimeter photographs
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of us.
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That's just wonderful, isn't it?
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So you see already, this is how he introduces him.
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He says, how's it going?
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Bill, like almost to give a sense of familiarity, uh, friendliness.
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And then he immediately starts launching into a way of trying to impress bill.
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Talking about how one of his callers who had just called in, uh, has a black helicopter
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over his house.
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I'm just like you, daddy.
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There's a sense of that.
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Well, it's, uh, it's just one other manifestation of the Nazi Gestapo police state, which has
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taken over this country.
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Again, I mean, I get on this program six days a week and I know how you feel when I talk
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to you this week.
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And I'm 24 years old.
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I'm ready to just say, screw it because you got these people cramming cheeseburgers in
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their mouth and they love it.
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I mean, does it ever anger you?
Unknown Speaker (00:37:41.440)
Well, of course it does.
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What angers me most is the stupidity of the vast herd of American sheeple out there.
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So also Bill Cooper is one of the people who's most, uh, uh, noted for popularizing the term
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sheeple.
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So we've got him to thank for that.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:56.480)
Um, but you see there, like it seems like the person who's more unhinged is Alex.
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He's screaming about how mad he is.
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And then there's a long pause and he's like, don't you ever get mad?
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Almost as a way of like trying to find the common bond, trying to find that, uh, that,
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uh, first means of connection.
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Uh, they think they know something and they don't even know what planet they're on to
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tell you the truth.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:19.039)
No, they don't.
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Simple things like private banks, print the money and enslave everyone.
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And simple things like Clinton's a transnational agent.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:29.119)
Well, your book, uh, behold, a pale horse is well-known to almost everybody that, uh,
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has any know-how on any of these subjects.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:38.239)
Um, you wrote that in 1988, didn't you, sir?
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So he's already plugging the book that he's claimed he hasn't read and barely knows anything
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about.
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It's stupid.
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It's about UFOs, but he's saying anyone who knows anything knows about this book.
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So he's already, uh, if you look at the actual document here, he's very clearly a hundred
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percent lying about this interaction.
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So he asked Bill, it was written in 1988, which would have been 10 years prior to this
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interview.
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And Alex, this fact's a little wrong.
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Sure.
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Well, actually I wrote it over a period of years, uh, back beginning in the early eighties
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and continuing up, uh, into about 88.
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I finished it, I believe in, uh, 89 and I may have added a couple of things in 90 and
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then it was published in December of 1990.
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December of 1990.
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How many copies are out?
Unknown Speaker (00:39:30.880)
I have no idea.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:32.079)
It's been the number one underground bestseller of all time with no advertising whatsoever.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:38.079)
Um, and, uh, people sell it on the street corners in New York city.
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I had to take it off the shelf in their New York city bookstore because it's by their
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own admission, it's the most stolen book in their inventory.
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The most stolen book in their inventory.
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Yeah.
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Why don't people got tons of them around here?
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Why don't you tell people, sir, just a, basically an overview of what behold a pale horse tells
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the public.
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And now it's even more incredible that so much of what you've written has come through
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in the last eight years.
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So he's, he's giving him prophetic status here at the end, all these things you wrote
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about in this book that I'm later going to pretend I didn't read have come true.
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This interview to me, knowing Alex as intimately as I do from his work, I hear an insecure
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Alex.
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I hear an Alex who in 98 wasn't the Alex of, you know, the mid to late two thousands, you
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know, like he's not the same broadcaster with the same status.
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And he knows that Bill Cooper in the worlds that he wants to be a part of and fancies
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himself a part of is a hero in that world.
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Yeah.
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He is totally like the way he's asking these questions and you heard it twice.
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Yeah.
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When Bill said the date his book came out, he's like December, 1990, almost contemplative,
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reflective.
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There's a sense of reverence to like minuscule details.
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For sure.
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And I think it's his way of covering, not really knowing how to interview this guy that
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he likes a lot.
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Yeah.
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That's the sense that I get.
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I it's exactly like it's exactly like so many of the times we see Alex's daddy issues show
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up, like with the John Birch Society guy, like when he's talking to him, it's like this.
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Oh, I'll give you whatever you want.
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Please, please just give me some sort of fucking approval.
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There are a sign of approval.
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And you could make the argument that like Alex in the future from that clip with the
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caller who asked about Bill Cooper, you could you could listen to that and you could say,
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well, that's not Alex being insecure and reverent.
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That's him being uncomfortable talking to him because he has him there for pity.
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Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:46.239)
But that doesn't track with the way he's lauding him, the way he's saying that your book, all
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these things have been proven true in the last eight years, keeps calling him, sir,
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thank you for being here.
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Yeah.
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Um, just all of this.
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Like he's he's supplicating for sure.
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Yeah.
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So we're not going to listen to much more of the interview itself because it's 40 minutes
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and it's mostly the two of them agreeing and more of that.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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It doesn't serve our purposes too much to go over that interview.
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If anyone wants, you can find it on YouTube.
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You can find the whole thing.
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What I heard from Bill, which was interesting based on what we know about them now or what
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you've told me about them, is that he is like giving those stock responses to like, he doesn't
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believe that there's a Blackhawk helicopter or an Apache helicopter.
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He doesn't give a fuck.
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He's just like, yeah, see, that's another example of government gone wild.
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Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I can't, I can't be a part of reinforcing this ink, but I don't think that even comes
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from a place of distrusting Alex.
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I think he has no idea who Alex is.
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Exactly.
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I think that that's probably, and I think you just hear a guy who's doing a radio interview.
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Yeah.
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And he's playing his role too.
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That guy knows what's up.
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He knows why he's there.
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Yeah.
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So he doesn't swear, doesn't get kicked off the air at all.
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And in fact, here's the end of the interview where Alex is profuse with his thanks.
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Well, sir, I really go there.
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They're going to be absolutely amazed.
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Well, I've been there several times and it is a lot of good information people will see.
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And I, I do respect you and, and I, I certainly hope that the Fed do back down because I know
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that once a revolution does start in this country and we've had a couple of them, that
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it's not going to be a pretty one and that's it.
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The whole thing starts.
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And I know that I'm on the list.
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So at the beginning of that, he was talking about Bill's website for the website.
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And actually even before that, I cut that clip terribly.
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Right before that, Alex was asking him to stay over another break.
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So the idea of him kicking him off the air isn't true.
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They'd already run over the time allotted for their interview and he was asking him
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to stick around later.
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Right.
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And Bill said, I'll stick around, but I've got to plug my website.
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Daddy, I know you only get to stay for the weekend, but can't you stay one more day?
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So Alex's claims from that discussion with the caller about Bill don't track with reality
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at all.
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They absolutely don't.
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He didn't start swearing.
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Alex didn't kick him off the air.
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None of that is true.
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That is just Alex lying about someone who can't defend themselves now because they're
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dead.
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That is a hundred percent is what I believe.
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I was really hoping for a repeat of the Donda Grand Prix.
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Oh, how do you feel about Bill Cooper?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:26.239)
He's dead now.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Well, then you have a good time.
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Good work.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:30.559)
Yep.
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Good work, Alex.
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So interestingly, September 11th happens and both of these gentlemen have put out their
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words.
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Which one?
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The 2001.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:42.320)
Oh, okay. The 2001 one.
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So Bill Cooper ends up dying in November 2001, but before he dies on the 26th of September
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2001, he puts out an episode of Hour of the Time titled Alex Jones Liar.
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Jesus, this is cool.
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Here is the first clip.
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I am stoked.
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You're listening to the Hour of the Time.
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I'm William Cooper.
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Good evening, folks.
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Before we get started, I have to clear up a little discrepancy here.
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Apparently the other night, or within the last week, because I've been getting a lot
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of email about this, and I even received one telephone call, apparently somebody called
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the Alex Jones broadcast and asked him why he didn't have me on the air, or asked him
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something about me.
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Alex Jones said he had had me on the air once before, several years ago, and had to cut
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me off the air because of the foul language that I used.
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So on the air tonight, I'm going to tell you, Alex Jones, you are a bold-faced, miserable,
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stinking little coward liar.
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Now let me say that again so there's no mistake about it.
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You can all tell Alex Jones that I said this, and I suspect he's listening because he does.
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Alex Jones, you are a bold-faced, stinking, rotten little coward liar.
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Get him.
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Feels good.
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Feels good to hear.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:18.400)
Man!
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Wow!
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There's a piece of this that I kind of decided to do this episode partially because of Alex's
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like weird 9-11 stuff last week, wanting to get into the prediction, but then I also really
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wanted to just take a sort of, I don't know, it's almost a walk a little bit for an episode
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of just like we get to end with Bill Cooper telling Alex Jones he's a big piece of shit
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liar, he'd go fuck himself.
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I am a huge fan of interrupting everything, and especially you, but fuck, this is fascinating.
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I want to listen to all of this shit.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:54.000)
Yeah, I know.
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I thought I was being very jokey whenever I said that he both
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was the precursor for Alex Jones' show and ours, but it is really right on.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:05.840)
Well...
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He was, 20 years ago, he was kicking ass doing what we're doing now, and nobody's had the
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balls since.
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I hope that we get a review on iTunes that says, not since Bill Cooper has anyone taken
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Alex down so hard.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:21.440)
But it's not like every episode of his show was about exposing the bullshit of these people.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:25.679)
No, of course not.
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Like, he has one episode here from the 13th of September.
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Atomic Bomb next.
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I want to listen to that.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:32.480)
Let's just play that now.
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And then Chemical and Biological Attack from October 9th.
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He nailed it.
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So like there's...
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That one's about Syria.
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There's a lot of like...
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Most of his show, it does appear that most of it is crazy conspiratorial nonsense.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:48.239)
Okay, here's a new game.
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Just read off the titles and I will try and make a real world corollary so he sounds right.
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All right, here from September 11th, New York Attack, 9-11 number 8.
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He did 10 episodes about it.
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I'm gonna guess that he nailed that one.
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Probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:05.280)
That was the eighth attack on New York.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:07.119)
Okay, yeah, here, let's try a better one.
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All right.
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Let's try this one.
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Okay.
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Attack of the Ninja Owls from the 14th of February 2001.
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Now, this price ages The Owls of Ga'Hoole, the movie...
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Talking about The Guardians?
Unknown Speaker (00:48:20.079)
Yeah, The Guardians of whatever it is.
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The Guardians, The Legend of the Owls of Ga'Hoole.
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11 for 11.
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Okay, so look, I think I want to make this abundantly clear and I think I have already.
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I don't know a ton about Bill Cooper and so nothing that I'm saying should in any way
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be interpreted as me signing off on anything he believes.
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Everything I say should be said that I think Bill Cooper has been right about everything.
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I'm certain that if I listen to a ton more of these episodes,
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I would find tons of problems and probably incredibly latent antisemitism or overt.
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I was gonna say overt seems almost a lot.
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I would and probably really scary dangerous patriot type rhetoric.
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I am certain of that.
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Yeah.
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In the same breath, I can say I'm interested in his interaction and intersection with the
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world that we cover vis-a-vis Alex Jones being that he's clearly his inspiration and clearly
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it didn't work out for Alex and that's pretty funny.
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When did Carrie start broadcasting?
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Carrie Cassidy?
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Yeah.
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It's hard to tell her YouTube channel probably started in like 2010,
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but I think Project Camelot existed before that in some form like a message board.
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Do you mean that it started in November 2001 when the soul of Bill Cooper
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was instead transported into the body of Carrie Cassidy?
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Carrie Cassidy was still trying to get films made back then.
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Bill Cooper is the progenitor of the Alex Jones show, our show and Project Camelot.
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Carrie Cassidy is a fan of Alex Jones.
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God damn it.
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What is his theme song?
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Because if it's William, William, William.
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All right.
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You can hear his theme song.
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Okay.
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That's it.
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It's basically that.
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It's like an air raid siren, which is actually, I think is probably,
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I mean, it's thematically right on.
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It feels right.
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Yeah, no, but I'm also glad we don't have a theme song and just come into a drop.
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I don't want to get too into the weeds with this because like I said,
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I do have some very strong reasons to suspect that Bill Cooper is a dangerous lunatic.
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And if only...
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Oh, the fact that he shot a cop isn't enough for you?
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That's a good indication.
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There are a few strong signs.
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There's a red flag of some kind.
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I mean like from, I mean like his work and his...
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Yeah.
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But I just don't know enough about it to be conversant in it.
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Right, right, right.
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So this is one of these weird, like I told you before we started the show,
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this is a weird place for me to be in because we're covering a topic
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that I admittedly don't have a good handle on.
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Yeah.
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Like I only know as much as I know.
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And it's the world of Bill Cooper is a big world.
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I know.
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It's a huge world and I only have a hold on a tiny piece of it.
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And so I feel out of my depth and very insecure, but...
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This is more of like a teaser episode for our next Timey-Wimey Wednesday.
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Yeah.
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Where we go and really dig into Bill Cooper.
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And it's weird that we're...
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Because this is gonna happen.
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I'm gonna text you all the time.
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I want to know all about Bill Cooper
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and about how he was fucking right about everything, Dad.
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We're gonna explore him more.
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I'm absolutely certain of that.
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But the other thing too is that it's weird that we're doing this on a Monday episode,
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but I should say that the 2009 stuff, one of the big reasons,
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in addition to last week Alex re-bringing up 9-11 and all that shit,
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the 2009 stuff has hit a snag.
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There's some boring episodes.
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Oh yeah.
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Yeah.
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So Bill has his episode that he put out about Alex Jones being a liar
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and we're not nearly done listening to him call Alex Jones a liar.
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Oh yeah.
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Here's another clip where he does.
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And he actually makes a very good criticism of Alex
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in terms of him being a sensationalist.
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I was only on the Alex Jones show one time.
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It was years ago when I didn't know who he was,
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when I didn't realize what a liar and a coward
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and a sensationalist bullshit artist that he is.
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Bill's 12 for 12.
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He was on one little FM station down in Texas.
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He wasn't on all the stuff that he's on now.
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And I agreed to be on his broadcast.
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That's when I was doing guest appearances on broadcast years ago.
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I was not cut off.
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I did not use any kind of foul language whatsoever.
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He treated me very well.
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Tracks.
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And I stayed on for the whole show.
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Totally true.
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Some of you in Texas know that that's true
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because you heard the broadcast and you taped it.
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Later when I found out who Alex Jones was
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and what he was doing to the truth,
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and how, what a cowardly liar and sensationalist he really is.
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Every time he called me after that,
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I have always refused to appear on his broadcast.
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Absolutely refused to lend him any credibility whatsoever
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by appearing on his broadcast.
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And that made him very angry.
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I believe all of that because Alex is a sensationalist.
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He lies about everything.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I totally believe that Alex kept contacting him and be like,
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should come back on the show.
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And he's like, I don't, I don't think I want to be involved with you.
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I look, like I said, Bill Cooper, probably wrong about just about everything.
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But I do believe him when he says, Alex wanted me to come back on.
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And I said, no.
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Well, if you deny Alex three times before the cock crows,
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he insists that you said a bunch of profanity on his show.
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That, that has always been written.
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I think that you can get away with appearing on shows that you don't support a little bit.
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Like I have a real line with that, you know, that, that sort of idea,
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because I don't think you should crucify somebody
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from appearing on a show that asked them to be on that you don't like.
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No, your episode of Punk'd was weird.
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I got it.
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That was weird.
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That was weird.
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When I made Justin Timberlake cry.
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It's the only reference I have for Punk'd.
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But like, the reason I'm thinking about this is because I think
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the reason I'm thinking about this is like, there's tons and tons of guests
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of Alex Jones' show who have been guests on Red Ice radio, Red Ice TV.
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There's an outright white nationalist white supremacist show.
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Ah.
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I do think that probably some of them didn't know what it was
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and got asked to come on as like a, eh, eh, it's a show.
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There's some listeners.
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Everybody's got to get a, everybody's got to get a, you know, you got to fill your calendar.
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I need to fill my calendar.
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My calendar is empty.
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Anybody's listening who can fill my calendar.
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You can blow it every, every now and again.
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I think you could probably be like, I shouldn't have done that.
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Not going to do it again.
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And I think Bill Cooper's probably in that sort of realm.
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He went on Alex's show, later realized like, ah shit, shouldn't have done that.
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Well, can't redo the past.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Now, spoiler alert.
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John Rappaport's been on Red Ice four times.
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Oh boy.
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He knows what they are doing.
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Does he know?
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Oh yeah.
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I don't.
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You don't show up on a show four times and not know the character of the show.
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And you hang up a picture if you're able to learn the character of a fucking show.
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I don't, I'm not going to hold it against him.
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Maybe he's just him.
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I'm just saying, man.
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I think he might be dead.
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I'm just saying.
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I think he's been dead for 15 years.
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He's dead inside.
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So I believe all that.
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I think that Bill is probably telling the truth about the idea that Alex wanted to back on,
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said no.
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And I do think that there's nothing, nothing terrible about it so far.
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Based on what we know of Alex and how he reacts to situations exactly what, exactly like what
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Bill Cooper describes, Alex is exacting like, is acting like everything that Bill Cooper
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says was 100% correct.
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It feels that way.
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Bill Cooper is saying all the things that we would have just listening to Alex shit talk
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him.
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I would have re I've reverse engineered like, Oh yeah.
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So he liked him and then someone burned him.
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And then they decided that and Alex created this lie.
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You can't defend himself now.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And Bill Cooper.
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And it turns out from one of the clips we're going to hear right at the end of this thing
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here.
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One of Bill's callers calls in and says that Info Wars used to have the video up of that
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interview, but they took it down.
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It's implied that at some point it got taken down.
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Oh man.
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So there is a decent chance that Alex was trying to bury this part of like, because
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my theory that Bill Cooper is right about everything is on track.
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Your theory can only go so far as he's right about Alex.
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Yes.
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That doesn't mean that he's right about everything.
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Nope.
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That is a logical fallacy.
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Here's the way it works.
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You're right about Alex.
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So I assume you're right about everything.
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God, no, seriously.
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No, you should have seen what I ate yesterday.
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Oh boy.
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God damn.
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So dumb.
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Can of chili.
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Anyway, it was not right.
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Shouldn't have done it.
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I'll tell you who's never eaten a can of chili.
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Bill fucking Cooper.
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Untrue.
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I'm certainly, I'm certain he's had a lot of, he's never eaten a can of chili.
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Listen, he makes his chili homemade.
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I don't know.
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Grows it in his backyard.
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Takes a long time.
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So Alex, in his talk with the caller where he's lying about Bill, he says that Bill edited
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up videos of me, which I've already explained to you was about the Y2K stuff.
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And in Bill's show where he's calling Alex Jones a liar and talking shit on him, he brings
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up why he did that.
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I've also revealed him for the lying sensationalist bullshit artist that he is by every once in
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a while bringing to your attention the lies and the deceit and the rumors that he spreads
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over the airwaves that are not good for any of us and they're not good for the nation.
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They are especially not good for militia and Patriots.
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So I'm going to give you half points on that.
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The most disgusting broadcast he ever did was on New Year's Eve, the year 2000, the
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New Year's Eve 1999, bringing in the year 2000, in which he went completely out of his
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mind and claimed that Russia had launched intercontinental ballistic missiles with multiple
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warheads at the United States of America and actually panicked millions of people who were
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putting their children and their belongings in their cars and heading for the hills.
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So right there, I want to pause really quick.
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He has more to say, but I think it's really important to point out that what Bill is taking
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issue with and why he was so personally offended by this is two-pronged.
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One, it's Alex has no respect for the truth.
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He's basing his operation and his behavior and his reportage entirely on rumors and conjecture
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and hearsay.
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The second, which I think is more important, is that Bill recognizes that the things Alex
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says have an effect on the people who hear them.
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He's taking very strong issue with the idea that Alex said these things, people heard
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them and got into a panic and headed for the hills.
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That's part of his negative consequence that he's describing of Alex's actions.
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And I think that's super important.
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Who the fuck is Bill Cooper?
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I need to know way more about it.
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It is interesting that he recognizes the responsibility of someone in a position like his or like
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Alex's that is don't get people into a place of tizzy unnecessarily or something like that.
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Yeah, this is bananas.
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Because there's consequences for the people who hear your lies.
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Of course.
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And that's an important human piece of this.
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It often gets buried.
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I think we try and bring it up, but it often gets buried in terms of the, except for whenever
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people talk about Alex vis-a-vis getting Sandy Hook families harassed and stuff like that.
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Hear those consequences then.
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But the human element of it is so it's not ignored, but it's very rarely made a big part
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of the problem.
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And it is.
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Yeah, Bill is fascinating.
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It sounds like he's got a great radio voice, too.
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He sounds a little bit like he's got Alex Jones's ideology and Dan Rather's voice.
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It's like he's so calming in the way that he's saying that everybody is going to try
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and kill you.
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Yeah, it is a little incongruous.
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And it's unlike David Knight in that David Knight is just boring.
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Yeah, Bill's not boring.
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No, Bill is not boring.
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Bill is soothing.
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He's just like, and they're coming to murder you and your family.
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This is the news on the hour of the time.
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Yeah, it does go to show that, like, being not boring is much different than having a
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boring delivery.
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It's not always a one to one.
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Yeah, David Knight could be interesting even with his fucking terrible delivery.
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I don't think that could get well soon, David.
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Now, there's lots of things that can be said about me.
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Nobody needs to lie about me.
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Sometimes I am irritating.
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Sometimes I absolutely will not suffer fools and am just as rude as I can be.
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I did a donkey.
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Nobody has to lie about me, Alex Jones.
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So I suggest that the next time somebody calls your broadcast and ask them about me, you
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tell the truth.
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There's lots of truth that you can tell about me.
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But don't ever lie on me, buddy, because I'll chop you off at your ankles.
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I will chew you up.
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I will spit you out for the lying, stinking, rotten little coward that you are.
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I think he hits a lot of the main points.
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Yeah, I'm going to give him a slight look.
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Just some studio notes.
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You can leave the cutting the ankles part out.
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You were doing great.
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You were doing great.
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It is a little bit weak.
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He already said bullshit or so.
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He clearly cuts on his own show.
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So like cutting you off at the ankles is kind of like it's ungratifying as a threat.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, you're not wrong.
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Either jump the threat way up or just let the threat go.
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You don't need it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, so I mean, it's a little bit redundant to if I were giving other studio notes, the
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idea of like, well, you just keep saying he's a liar.
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I mean, that it can never be said enough, quite frankly.
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He is lying.
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Yeah.
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So what's interesting to me is that call that we heard from Alex talking to the caller about
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Bill Cooper.
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Yeah, that was from like 2008, 2009.
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Yeah, Bill was dead by then.
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Yeah, seven or eight years and Alex is still September of 2001.
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Bill put out this episode responding to a caller calling into Alex's show and Alex responding
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the exact same way.
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Yeah.
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So we do know that at least from 2001 onward, that's been Alex's sort of rewriting of the
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interview that they did.
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Alex holds a fucking grudge, man, because that because the 2008 or 2009 area was like,
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dude, you feel that fresh.
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Those wounds are fresh.
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But I think it's because it highlights something that's so important about his own self-mythology.
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That he's a giant fraud and he knows it?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And then also that he is a coward, Bill Cooper.
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And I don't mean to say that Bill is admirable or anything in like...
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No, no.
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I mean, but he is someone who clearly was willing to stand on whatever principles, no
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matter how dumb or backward they were, like he shot a fucking cop and got killed rather
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than own up to the fact that he's got to pay taxes.
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Like that's not a good thing.
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But if you look at a propagandist like an anti-tax propagandist, if you're going that
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far, you have your principle.
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You have the integrity, good or bad, of whatever it is you present yourself as believing in.
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And with Alex, he has none of that.
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Every time that we have talked about Alex waffling and changing his position and all
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of those things, and we've said, according to your own principles, you should be against
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this, Bill Cooper would just be against it.
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Like, it seems like Bill Cooper did not give a fuck about anything other than believing
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that the government was coming to kill him.
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And aliens are somehow in play.
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Yeah, it seems more like Bill Cooper was not so much ideologically consistent as he was
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fucking crazy.
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He was crazy consistent and consistent to the crazy and consistently crazy.
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Yeah, it does appear that way.
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Again, not being an expert on him, it's hard for me to say with too much certainty.
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But the sense that you get is that is that there is there is a through line through.
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And he wasn't deviating that from that for a fucking second.
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And that he did the clip show as opposed to just doing the beef.
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So that's the thing that gets me as far as as far as the con man, non con man level,
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the con men recognize that the beef is fine.
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Yeah.
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You know, but they don't do specifics about each other.
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They don't say, I'm going to do a clip show where I prove you wrong.
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Even when Alex was doing the well, when Alex was shitting all over the bed, doing the Glenn
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Beck expose.
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He still didn't have anything.
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Nope.
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But Bill fucking did it, man.
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He went straight for the con man's balls by using his own words against him.
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And another aspect, too, is that, like, he sells books and all that stuff.
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But at least it's episodes that I've listened to and I've listened to a number of them.
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Not nearly enough, but I've listened to a number of them.
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And he doesn't ask for money, really.
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Like the con isn't there in terms of Bill.
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And there's even a call that I heard where this guy was talking about how he doesn't
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have a lot of money.
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But when he does, he's going to send Bill some so he can have all the air time that
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he needs.
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That sort of thing.
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And Bill's response is to laugh at him.
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Like, not meanly, but just like, all right, well, thank you.
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That's nice of you or something like that.
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It doesn't seem like he's motivated by the same.
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Granted, he is a con man in terms of getting you to believe things that aren't true for
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his own enrichment, but he doesn't seem to be primarily motivated by it.
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I want to know more about Bill Cooper.
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And this dude is might have been a mistake of an episode, dude, as I think it opens up.
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Hell no.
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It might open up way too big of a vista.
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You know, like, I think that the horizon is too large for us.
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What's the name of this show?
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It's called Hour of the Time.
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All right.
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Well, we did.
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We did this podcast about Alex Jones.
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We finished and it was a knowledge fight.
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All right.
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So now we just moved to Bill Cooper and it's now the week of the now's simple.
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Bill Cooper legitimately rebranding.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Bill Cooper only interests me really in as much as he is sort of a prototype and a precursor
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to Alex and someone who seems to believed it much more than Alex.
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And Alex was able to use a lot of what Bill stood for and a lot of the world that Bill
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was in as the window dressing and camouflage for him to sell Ted Anderson's gold and all
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the other scams that he's been pulling over the years.
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Yeah.
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The thing that he's...
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I think he's interested from that approach and I do want to cover him more, but less
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as like, let's just talk Bill Cooper for a bit.
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No, of course not.
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I was being facetious.
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I understand.
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But I want the audience to know I'm interested in learning a ton about him, but only to enrich
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our understanding of early Alex Jones.
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Right.
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Because his shows from 98 are available.
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Alex's aren't.
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Like a lot of that stuff you can't find on the internet and man, I've been trying to
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track down VHSs and a lot of emails have been returned.
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Nope.
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No idea.
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I can't find these early days Alex Jones episodes super easily.
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There's very few resources to find them and if anybody out there has any tips, please
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let me know.
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But this does give a window into what that world was like on a day-to-day basis through
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this radio show that clearly Alex had to have been listening to.
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Right.
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What it is that formed him into what he would become.
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Well, the thing that I think Bill Cooper makes abundantly clear is the logical end point
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for a Alex Jones style propagandist who actually believes what they're saying.
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The logical end point for an Alex Jones that believes what he's saying is to be murdered
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by the cops.
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Like that's the reality of it.
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Simply by his continued existence, we can surmise that Alex Jones doesn't believe a
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goddamn thing that he's saying because we have a case study and somebody who does believe
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what they're saying, fucking getting, killing himself by cop.
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I'm going to push back on that just a tiny bit because it didn't have to go that way.
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Of course it didn't.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:54.899)
No, because Bill could have continued doing exactly what he was doing if he wasn't threatening
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locals with guns and stuff like that.
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It wasn't just his presence that threatened them.
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He was going around and harassing people.
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And Alex doesn't do that?
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I don't know.
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Fair point.
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But also even if Alex were doing that, he doesn't have an outstanding warrant for bank
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fraud and tax evasion that the cops could act on.
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It would have to be a new motion for them to arrest him.
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Bill Cooper didn't have to commit suicide by cop.
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He didn't have to go that route.
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It's not the logical end point of a propagandist like this who believes the things they do.
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It's a logical end point of a propagandist who believes this sort of stuff and also likes
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to threaten people with guns.
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That's the point.
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I don't want to give him any credence for his death.
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Like it being like, well, we are saying that it's like, well, you believed it enough to
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get there.
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Yeah.
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That part's true.
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Yeah.
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But what really precipitated it is him being a fucking asshole.
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Right.
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And also shooting the cops.
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He could have just he could have gone peacefully.
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Right.
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But that's.
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That's the narrative all the time is like if the cops come for your guns, you need to
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be prepared to kill the cops.
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We just saw that on a present day episode.
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Yeah.
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He does believe that.
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It's also stolen from Bill because Bill because Bill did it.
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Yep.
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God, it's so weird to see the parallels between so many underground like comedians and musicians
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who should who everybody's like, oh, they should have been more.
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Oh, mud honey should have been way bigger than Nirvana.
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That whole thing.
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They're the underground.
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The meat puppet should have been way bigger.
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Bill Cooper should have been way bigger than your shit.
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Alex Jones.
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But here's the problem.
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And I think that this is one of the reasons why this is a difficult episode for me to
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do is like a lot of people who are listening to this are in the know and they know exactly
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how huge Bill Cooper is.
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Yeah.
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And then there's a lot of people who listen who are like you who have no idea who he is.
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No clue.
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It's an interesting line to walk in terms of the show where we're giving an introduction
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sort of to this as another topic that will come up over the course of our podcast.
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Right.
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And that might be unsatisfying to the people who are metaphorically mud honey fans or whatever.
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You know what I mean?
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Because.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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No, I get what you're saying.
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Because what you're expressing isn't true.
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Like the idea of like, why wasn't Bill Cooper bigger?
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He was huge.
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He's very big.
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But I think the answer to that is obviously he committed suicide by cop.
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That's probably one of the reasons he wasn't bigger.
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Well, that hurt his lingering appeal, you know, like couldn't put out new stuff after
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that.
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Yeah, it's tough.
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But he's not a minor variable.
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He is someone who was very important to this world of conspiracy and propaganda and malicious
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stuff.
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So it.
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I don't.
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I get it.
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You want to you want a hammer.
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You want to.
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You want to bring a button.
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You want to put a button in this.
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I don't know.
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I have another clip.
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I thought you were sounding like you were wrapping up and you were unsatisfied.
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No, I wasn't.
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No, it's not that.
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I was I'm I it's all just like what I've been expressing this entire time and what I said
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before the show.
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It's I don't know a ton.
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I want I'm going to learn more.
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But as we're doing this show, this episode, it's not to give like here's Bill Cooper.
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Right.
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It's a here's an interesting incident from Alex's career.
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Two incidents, actually, the 9-11 prediction incident and then the lying about the interview
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with Bill Cooper.
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Right.
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And so.
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No, you're furious that you're conversant and not a Ph.D. in the subject.
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More or less.
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And talking about it.
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It's a bit it's a bit of that.
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Yeah.
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And I just have to make peace with that.
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And I will.
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It'll happen.
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But we have one last thing here.
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And that is we already know that Alex was lying to his caller about what happened with
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the bill.
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But in this next clip, Bill, say, fill your hand first, too.
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What else is what else is Alex stealing from Bill?
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It's probably the list.
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Where's Nunk?
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No, Bill didn't kill Nunk.
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On Bill's show where he's talking about how Alex Jones is a liar, which, again, we don't
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need a backup to prove it is the case.
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Bill takes some calls and they all have his back.
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Good evening.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:18.279)
You're here.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:19.279)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:20.279)
Hi, Mr. Cooper.
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Listen, that Alex Jones interview was directly after you published the Baratost June 26,
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1998 issue about the Cooper family being targeted by the feds.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I heard it.
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Yeah, back in the 1990s.
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Did he check me off the air?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:36.840)
No, he's a liar and you pointed it out and I heard that interview and you were nothing
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but cordial.
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Yeah.
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Well, that's the truth.
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That's the truth.
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Thank you.
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I even like his callers more.
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Thank you, Virginia.
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Alex Jones is a miserable, rotten, little, stinking, cowardly, bold-faced liar.
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Boy, you know, all of these people ought to know better than to mess with me, because
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I don't take any crap from anybody.
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It's true.
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And if I'm not afraid of the whole machinations of the entire government Gestapo, what in
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the hell makes Alex Jones think that I would ever be afraid of his cowardly, little, rotten
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butt?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:16.079)
Good evening.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:17.079)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:18.079)
I just wanted to let you know, I verified what you said about that Alex Jones interview.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:23.079)
They had it archived on the internet at one time, and I did hear that interview, and there
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was nothing wrong with what you did.
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And I wasn't thrown off the air, was I?
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Not a bit.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:33.479)
No.
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And it's the only interview I ever did with Alex Jones.
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As soon as I found out what he was doing and who he really was, he's called me back at
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least a hundred times since then, and I've always told him to take a hike.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:47.079)
So anyway, thank you.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:48.079)
You bet.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:49.079)
I appreciate that.
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So the interesting thing here that we have to wrestle with is that Bill is right.
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Like he's a hundred percent right in this circumstance.
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About everything.
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No.
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Always.
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UFOs are real.
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About Alex.
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But he's also probably, I think he's probably worse than Alex in terms of being really extreme.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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The idea-
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The banality of evil.
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The banality of Alex, there's an impotence to Alex.
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There's a small cross section of his audience that will end up doing terrible things, but
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most of them will just get lulled into a learned helplessness and buy his products and stuff
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like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:35.880)
Right, right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:36.880)
It's the nature of the scam.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:37.880)
Good for them.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:38.880)
I think that people who listen to Bill Cooper regularly are probably much more dangerous.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:41.920)
Oh yeah, for sure.
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Which is why they're so much more serious and focused and like when they're talking
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about a subject they're directly talking about it and then when they're done talking about
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it they're done.
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You know, like how a fucking serial killer is goddamn organized and ready to get shit
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done.
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Alex Jones, Prince Humperdinck in The Princess Bride.
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Bill is Christopher Guest, the torturer in The Princess Bride.
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Christopher Guest doesn't give a fuck.
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He's just going to do what he's going to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:15.560)
You're not going to try and relate this to Twilight?
Unknown Speaker (01:16:18.119)
We can't do that.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:19.119)
Apparently, I think I read in the group that everybody was out on-
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It was 50-50.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:23.399)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:24.399)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:25.399)
You're right earlier I don't know how to put a button on this and there is no button.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:28.239)
This is just kind of an interesting snapshot that ideally we'll build on more as time goes
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on.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:35.319)
Yeah.
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But it's a snapshot worth looking at even without grander context because we now understand
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a little bit better where Alex gets these ideas that he predicted 9-11 from, which is
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worth it on its own.
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And then beyond that we get to hear someone call Alex a fucking lying piece of shit, which
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is always fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:53.600)
Man, this is third season we're introducing a new villain, Dan.
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We're fucking nailing this.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:59.479)
Of course your first episode you're not going to get closure on it, Dan.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:02.439)
Nope.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.439)
This is a season long arc or not.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:05.420)
We could abandon it tomorrow.
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So I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:08.659)
We'll learn more about Bill Cooper as time goes on.
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I'll probably go ahead and read Behold a Pale Horse.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:14.199)
I know I've read parts of it in the past, but I'll go ahead and jump down that fucking
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chimney and see what's inside.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:21.399)
Yeah, like somebody hijacking a plane stealing $500,000 and jumping off of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.159)
You're going to jump in.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:27.159)
Yeah.
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Both feet.
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Derek.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:30.159)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:31.159)
Derek Bill Cooper.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:32.159)
So anyway, we'll be back on Wednesday.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:36.680)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:37.680)
Wednesday.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:38.680)
We have a friend, Derek Bill Cooper, who has disappeared.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:41.159)
RIP.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:42.159)
We will not see him again.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:43.600)
Get well soon, David Knight.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:45.279)
So until then, we have a website, knowledgefight.com.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:47.600)
We do.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:48.600)
We have a Twitter at underscore knowledge underscore fight underscore Bill Cooper.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:53.600)
Get rid of a bunch of that and then you got it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:55.640)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:56.640)
We're also on Facebook.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:57.640)
Indeed.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:58.640)
We got a group called Go Home and Tell Your Mother You're Brilliant.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:00.399)
Correct.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:01.399)
Also, we're on iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:02.399)
We are on iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:03.399)
Check that out.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:04.399)
Have some fun over there.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:05.399)
Holy shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:06.399)
Do you know what's crazy?
Unknown Speaker (01:18:07.399)
What?
Unknown Speaker (01:18:08.399)
He technically didn't kill a guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:11.039)
Uh, well, just because he didn't technically kill that cop, I don't know if we can say
Unknown Speaker (01:18:15.920)
he didn't kill a guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:17.079)
That's true.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:18.079)
But in one specific instance, he really tried hard to kill a guy and wound up not doing
Unknown Speaker (01:18:25.960)
it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:26.960)
Yeah, it does seem that way.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:27.960)
Whereas Alex, who technically probably didn't mean to kill a guy, wound up doing it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:33.840)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:34.840)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:35.840)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.840)
Hello, Alex, I'm a first time caller, I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:40.000)
I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.000)
I love you.
