Transcript/1008: Formulaic Objections Part 18
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(instrumental music plays) Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.
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Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.
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Yes.
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You operate a website and make internet videos?
Unknown Speaker (00:08:10.771)
Yes.
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Objection form.
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Y- yes.
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Just trying to figure out if that's what your media company does.
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That's part of it.
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What else do you do that you would say that your media company does?
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(sniffs)
Unknown Speaker (00:08:29.790)
Um, well, it's a general media company. So, um, yep, there's a daily program.
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There's, uh,
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separate, you know, reporting, an investigative, uh,
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reporting unit, and the website operates separately where someone writes
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articles,
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so
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social media, you know, kind of all-encompassing media.
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So, there's an interesting vibe that he gives off, which is simultaneously, like, there's a little bit
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of, "I'm really afraid to answer any of your questions."
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Totally.
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And then also at times, like, "I'm eager for a debate."
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Yeah.
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There is j- th- both sides of these coin, uh, this coin
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seem to be present with him, and it's very, it's a very interesting-
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Ridiculous.
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... presentation.
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I'm, I'm opening a... Now, I'm, I'm full on going to open a consulting business
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for depositions 'cause here's your answers right there, "Sure."
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You know what I'm saying? Like,-
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Mm-hmm.
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... "Oh, what does your company do? Make online videos? Sure."
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Never say, "That's part of it," because now you have to
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answer what the rest of the part of it is, and now you're responsible for the other parts of it. No.
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Well-
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We just make internet videos, bro. Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:09:29.490)
Right. There, there's a, there... The answer of, like, "That's not all we do," is kind of self-defensive-
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Exactly.
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... a little bit.
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Yeah.
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Whereas, like, if you just answer yes, that doesn't imply that you don't do anything else.
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No. No.
Unknown Speaker (00:09:41.110)
Like, the answer yes includes the possibility of other th- it's not exclusive. Um, but yeah, these people.
Unknown Speaker (00:09:47.630)
Yeah, it is, it is a psychological,
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like, need to be like, "I'm more than what you are." Like, for some reason, they
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have to get in there and be like, "No, I'm better."
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Mm-hmm.
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It's crazy.
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Yeah.
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Crazy.
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So, uh, Crowder, uh, gets the old qu- primary question.
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All right.
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What'd you do to prepare, my man?
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What did you do, buddy?
Unknown Speaker (00:10:07.410)
Um, did you do anything to prepare for this deposition?Uh, no. I
Unknown Speaker (00:10:13.191)
watched, uh, I, I, I had read the, uh,
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the files that were sent, uh, over from your attorneys. Well, yourself, I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:10:19.390)
The files, can you tell me what you mean by that?
Unknown Speaker (00:10:23.150)
The documents, the complaint.
Unknown Speaker (00:10:25.630)
Okay. The, the, in other words, the lawsuit that was filed?
Unknown Speaker (00:10:28.291)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:10:28.890)
Okay. Um, have you reviewed any other documents to prepare for this deposition?
Unknown Speaker (00:10:33.791)
Hmm, not to my knowledge, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:10:35.711)
Okay. Have you, have you viewed, um, your, your May 8th or May 9th show?
Unknown Speaker (00:10:41.811)
I viewed a, uh, at least a portion of it, yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:10:44.811)
Okay.
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These guys all say that they didn't prepare
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much for their depositions because they think that helps them plausibly claim that they
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don't know various things, but there's an irony here.
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They think that saying they didn't prepare gets them off the hook a little bit,
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but what it really reveals is that they
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aren't taking this seriously at all. If a normal person were in Crowder or Alex's shoes, they would
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hear that something they did seriously hurt another person and that it was severe enough that they were
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sued over it and had to give a deposition. They would probably have a moment where
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they worried that they may have made
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a mistake and actually hurt this person, and they would wanna make amends for it. They would likely want
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to review what they'd done so they could see
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where mistakes were made and how they could avoid making them in the future.
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With people like Alex and Crowder, they don't care because misidentifying a mass shooter isn't a mistake.
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They did the coverage that they did for the express purpose of denying that the shooter was a Nazi
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because they want to minimize the threat that right-wing domestic extremists pose.
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They didn't care that they were pointing at the wrong guy, and they'll do it again.
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The act of saying that he's done no real preparation
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is Crowder's way of thinking he's protecting the game. Pretending that this was a mistake is kind of
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safe for Crowder, and he knows that if he plays ignorant, it's much easier for him to avoid revealing too much
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about why they were so eager to jump on this incorrect mugshot the way that they did.
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Mm-hmm.
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Which is what's behind all of it.
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Hmm.
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It's not a mistake.
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That's interesting. It is an interesting choice to me because
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in two regards
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I would make a different choice. Although not necessarily saying different words to Mark.
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Hm.
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If I was going to, uh, get sued in this way, I
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would absolutely study all of this stuff and have a full and complete understanding of what's going on.
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That way, if I'm going to lie, I'm doing it with the information that
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they are trying to get as well. You know what I mean?
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Mm-hmm.
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Like, I'm prepared for where you're gonna try and angle it-
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Sure.
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... because I know what I'm lying about.
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Yeah.
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Whereas these guys seem to have no idea what they're actually lying about. They're-
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Or-
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... just kind of, like, flailing about.
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At least they seem to be playing it by ear a little bit too much.
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Yeah! Don't improvise.
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Yeah. But honestly, there's no reason to end up in this situation at all.
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Sure.
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Like b-
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Well, I mean, if we wanna go further and further back, of course there's no reason. (laughs)
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But even if you're a shitty liar who does, like, these awful, dumb broadcasts based-
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Sure.
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... on bad information-
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Sure.
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... you s- still, like, should never end up in this situation.
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No.
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Like, Alex i- like, th- has a great model of this, like,
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apologizing to Hamdi Ulukaya-
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Sure.
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... and James Alefantis.
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Yeah.
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Like, these things can be done, and it doesn't really cost you that much capital.
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No.
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So, like,
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there's no reason to end up in a deposition room when you can say, "We made a mistake."
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Yep.
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"We fired somebody," or, like-
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Totally.
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... "We, we did an investigation and someone got suspended for two weeks without pay," or whatever. Just do-
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Yeah.
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... something like that-
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Yeah.
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... and then you can move on.
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Yeah, the legal system is very willing to accept an oopsie.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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But also, this plaintiff probably is, too.
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Totally.
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Like, this probably is something that can be resolved through recognition of wrongdoing-
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Right.
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... and, like, w-
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uh, uh, uh, uh, maybe we don't believe that Crowder's gonna change his ways, but-
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Yeah.
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... like, him pretending that he's going to would probably get him off the hook.
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Yeah, it is, it is a question of whether or not it's one of those, like, uh,
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the seed of destruction is sewn within it before-
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Mm-hmm.
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... we even begin because is it the paranoid, uh,
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self-importance that allows them to become what they become,
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is also the thing that keeps them from doing the smart thing-
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It might be.
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... in these regards. You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Could be all, all wrapped up.
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Mm-hmm.
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So, uh, we get to a question about, uh, Crowder's training.
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, his, uh, his, uh, his, uh, sort of academic credentials-
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Oh, boy.
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... in journalism.
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Okay.
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Uh, before I get into all that, I wanna, uh, confirm some details on your background.
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Um, as far as educational background, it's my understanding
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that you attended a couple semesters of college?
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Correct.
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Okay.
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I, I think it's fair to say you have no educational background in journalism?
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Hm,
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I wouldn't agree.
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Oh, for God's sakes.
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(laughs)
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Okay. Uh, can you explain to me what your educational background in journalism is?
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Years of experience?
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(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:15:01.311)
Well, nothing specifically... We'll, we'll move on to your work experience and talk about
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your education at this point, if you have any educational background in journalism.
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Well, I did study media for, as you said, two semesters in college.
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Okay. So, when you were in college for those semesters, part of that included journalism courses?
Unknown Speaker (00:15:17.610)
Part of it included, yes. Uh, broadcast.
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Okay.
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So, he took a broadcast class in one of his two semesters in college.
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Yup.
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This is not good.
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I mean, I, I, I don't even remember. Look, so I went to the University of Missouri.
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Sure.
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And they have a prestigious journalism school there.
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Sure, sure.
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They're very, very proud of it.
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Sure.
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Um, I don't know if I took a journalism class.
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Yeah.
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I think I might have.
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Yeah.
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It wasn't d- it definitely wasn't what I studied, but I
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might have taken more journalism classes than Crowder.
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Right. Now, here's what I find fascinating about these people, is that they want
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the credibility of having an education in it.
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Mm-hmm.
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Which makes me crazy because in my, i- the way that I would view this is
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look at how journalism schools, look at what journalism schools have produced.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm the, I'm a better journalist for not having gone to a journalism school.
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Right.
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Thus, I don't want-
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Well-
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... the accolades of an education.
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But that's-
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So, I don't need it.
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But that's what they do on air.
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Like-
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Right, exactly.
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... the, the s- institution and the idea of journalism is fraudulent at its core-
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Right.
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... and that's why I'm better, because I make fart jokes-
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Right.
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... on this show where my dad is watching over me like a hawk.
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And yet inside they have this like, "Well, I'm a legitimate journalist also."
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In this setting.
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Yeah.
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This setting brings that out-
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Fascinating.
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That need to be taken seriously.
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Crazy.
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And it, it, uh, it would be better if it wasn't there.
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No, I would- I mean, I would be proud of not having gone to a journalism school
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and then being like, "Look at where I am."
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Mm-hmm.
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It would make sense.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, maybe... (sighs)
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And now I'm starting to think like a comedy thing.
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Okay.
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Like,
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you know, you have to really know the rules before you can break them.
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Sure.
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In a lot of, like, comedy settings.
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Sure.
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Um, maybe it's just that, like, I break the rules, but I know some stuff.
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Sure.
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I have some education, but that's how, that what allows me to break the rules.
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Sure, sure. But in that-
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Maybe that's what he's trying to present.
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Perhaps in the same way though, you know, I would be like, hey, I, anybody who's gone to like a comedy class
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has exactly as much training as anybody who's not gone to a comedy class.
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Right.
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In terms of like actual
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doing it doing it kind of thing, you know?
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Right. But if you were asked, "What is your academic history in comedy?"
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Not at all.
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You wouldn't say the experience.
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I wouldn't say, "The school of hard knocks, my man."
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Right.
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Which is what he essentially said.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so that's what the next question comes to.
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Mm-hmm.
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Is like let's talk about your learning on the job.
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Right, right, right, right.
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You, um, you worked for Fox back in the 2009, 2013 time period?
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Uh, I believe so. That's-
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the time period sounds correct.
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Did they provide you any training in journalism?
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(smacks lips)
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Experience. (laughs)
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I, I understand that you were, you did the job for many years. I'm
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sure you, you picked up some things, right? But what I'm wondering actually is, as
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part of your employment, did Fox provide you with formal training in journalism?
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They did not send me to journalism school, no.
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Okay. Um,
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now at that time,
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at that time I think it's fair to say that your, um,
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what you were doing for Fox was primarily concentrated on, uh, more comedic
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type, uh, presentations. Is that fair?
Unknown Speaker (00:18:28.295)
No. (laughs)
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So
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back during the time period when you were working at Fox-
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I'm not funny.
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... would you say you were covering hard news at that point too?
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Objection form.
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Sometimes.
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Okay.
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Okay, so you were doing hard news
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w- uh, really? So th- I, I, I do think that there's something... And I, I didn't talk to Mark about this at all.
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Yeah.
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So don't- this is not coming from him. This is purely an observation that I have from watching this.
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Okay.
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I think Mark's, uh, like needling him a little bit.
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I-
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There's a little bit of disrespect (laughs) that is being
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implied through some of this. Not to a level that's unprofessional necessarily, but
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I do get more of a feeling that he does not like, uh, Steven.
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I agree with you. Uh, and I would even go so far as to say that his lawyer agrees with you,
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because that objection form was actually like a, "Hey, don't be a dick."
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Come on now.
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That was, that was 100% "I know what you're doing"
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objection form. But I can't be like, "You're being a meanie." (laughs)
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So your journalism experience training is doing little comedy sketches, right?
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Objection form.
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Okay.
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(laughs)
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So when Crowder was working at Fox-
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Yeah.
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... he was doing these hard news/comedy things.
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Right. (laughs)
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And he started a YouTube channel.
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Sure.
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And eventually the audience grew.
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Right.
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And so the conversation comes up here about as your audience grows-
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Mm-hmm.
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... do you have a greater responsibility-
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Okay.
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... to be accurate?
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Now ever since leaving Fox, say the past 10 years, um,
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fair to say that you've begun to amass a, a rather sizable audience?
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Yes.
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Okay. Do you understand that as the size of your
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audience increased, the magnitude of potential
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harm that could be caused, uh, by publishing a false statement about someone also increased?
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Yes.
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And would you agree with me that as that, that
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potential magnitude for harm increased and your
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audience increased, your responsibility as a journalist also increased?
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Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (00:20:29.734)
Well, I've never labeled myself a journalist, but yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:20:33.134)
I mean, well, you cover hard, hard news. We can agree with that.
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Sure.
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So does Jon Stewart.
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Sure, absolutely. Right. Um...
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(sighs) .
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And, and let's make it clear, even today
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on your show in which you cover hard news, you also do things that are, are comedic.
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Yes.
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So this Jon Stewart thing is not as good of a dodge as Crowder thinks it is.
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No.
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For one thing, people in his end of the
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media constantly treat Jon Stewart as if he's one of the most important
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journalists in the mainstream media.
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Yeah.
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If you're saying that Stewart covers serious stuff and does
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jokes, then you think that journalists can cover serious stuff and do
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jokes, you have actually just put yourself in, in a trap.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:14.454)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:14.974)
Also, if Jon Stewart went on The Daily Show and misidentified a mass shooter, he would get sued too.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:20.535)
The latitude that he might get because The Daily Show is funny
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doesn't extend as far as Crowder likes to pretend it does. Like if he did the same things as them-
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Yeah.
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... then the sa- like a lot of the same consequences would happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:33.035)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:33.734)
It's not like, "Oh, you get a free pass because you're a lib."
Unknown Speaker (00:21:37.015)
Yeah.
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Or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:38.154)
Yeah. It is-
Unknown Speaker (00:21:38.994)
You don't, you don't... You're a professional, so you don't misidentify shooters.
Unknown Speaker (00:21:42.194)
Yeah, yeah. It's...
Unknown Speaker (00:21:44.255)
Okay, here's what I think
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or like I wonder.
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And I don't know if we can answer this question today. But
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it has always
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been something that I assumed, is that when these people were
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outside of the, uh, need to posture, they were all
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capable of actually being like, "Ah, there's no caravan at the border."
Unknown Speaker (00:22:06.015)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:06.255)
You know what I'm saying? Uh, there is an awareness that we're pulling one over.
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Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:11.454)
Right. Um,
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but in this situation, it feels like he does not actually have the awareness that he is
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n- th- what he is. You know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (00:22:22.875)
That's, that's something that I don't
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real... Yeah, you know what you say, you, we don't know if we have an answer.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:27.954)
Yeah.
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And I, I don't know if I do, uh, honestly. Like that's the part where I think,
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like, I'm worried about how stupid he is.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:33.674)
Yeah. Could he... 'Cause I don't think if he was outside of this scenario, even in his
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quiet, like looking into a mirror, could he be able to actually answer these questions honestly.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:43.694)
Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:46.234)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:22:46.555)
I don't know. And as, as we go through more, uh, of these clips, some of them are a little bit longer, because
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I think you need the context of hearing how this progresses.
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Yeah.
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Like the thought to thought to thought thing-
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Mm-hmm.
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... of it. If I just play... Like some of them are like
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three minutes, and if they were a minute and a half, it would make no sense.
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Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:05.835)
Because it, it just, it, it-
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I dare you to tell me it does make sense after we listen to- (laughs)
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It still doesn't. But the way that it doesn't make sense starts-
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Right.
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... to make sense.
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Right, right, right. (laughs) I was gonna say.
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There are multiple times where it feels like Mark is trying to explain grammar-
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Right, yes.
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... to, to him.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:24.734)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:24.974)
But-
Unknown Speaker (00:23:25.055)
Predicate is-
Unknown Speaker (00:23:26.075)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:26.275)
... related to... Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:27.714)
If this...
Unknown Speaker (00:23:28.694)
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:29.855)
Um, so one of the things that obviously is going on here at the beginning
Unknown Speaker (00:23:33.974)
is this, uh, idea that you do funny things.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:36.654)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:37.154)
Um, and I think that what's going on is that Mark is trying to eliminate
Unknown Speaker (00:23:41.394)
the, uh, defense of, "I'm just a clown!"
Unknown Speaker (00:23:44.434)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:44.714)
Um, and
Unknown Speaker (00:23:46.535)
I don't think Crowder should abandon that.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:48.734)
It seems like he's willingly jumping into the, "I'm eliminating the defense that I should be using."
Unknown Speaker (00:23:54.075)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:54.355)
Uh-
Unknown Speaker (00:23:54.375)
But he doesn't.
Unknown Speaker (00:23:56.315)
One of the things you offer your audience is fact-checking of the news. Correct?
Unknown Speaker (00:24:00.815)
Correct.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:02.734)
Okay. Um, in fact, let's, um, let's bring up tab one.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:13.035)
All right, I want to show you something that was just posted to the website last week.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:16.906)
Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:24:17.707)
and as I think you may remember, we, we had this deposition scheduled for a few days ago. Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:24:22.606)
but one of the reasons that we had rescheduled it is so that you could do fact-checking at the DNC, correct?
Unknown Speaker (00:24:28.728)
Yeah, a portion of it, yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:31.926)
Okay. So for instance, in, in this broadcast,
Unknown Speaker (00:24:35.767)
you'd be telling your audience, "Hey, certain, certain claims are gonna be made at the DNC,
Unknown Speaker (00:24:40.567)
and we are going to use our skills to tell you what is real and what is not." Is that fair?
Unknown Speaker (00:24:45.707)
Yes, sir.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:47.946)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:48.847)
So your audience can expect,
Unknown Speaker (00:24:52.067)
um, that you're gonna be talking to them about matters of truth or falsity, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:24:56.647)
That's right.
Unknown Speaker (00:24:58.426)
Is it... Do you agree it's reasonable
Unknown Speaker (00:25:02.346)
for your audience to expect you
Unknown Speaker (00:25:04.926)
to use the same level of care they would expect from any commercial media outlet?
Unknown Speaker (00:25:09.787)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:15.186)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:16.527)
I mean, I guess what I'm, I'm getting at is,
Unknown Speaker (00:25:20.126)
it, it's not gonna be your position
Unknown Speaker (00:25:22.626)
that, "Hey, I'm just a clown. I'm just a guy who plays dress up.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:27.247)
I'm not doing news." That's not what your position is. You do hard news,
Unknown Speaker (00:25:33.247)
correct?
Unknown Speaker (00:25:33.567)
Look,
Unknown Speaker (00:25:34.386)
it depends on the context.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:35.707)
Absolutely, sure. Like we said, there are some instances
Unknown Speaker (00:25:39.507)
where your audience is clearly gonna know that you're doing a comedic sketch, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:25:45.047)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:45.967)
But your May 8th coverage of the Allen shooting, that wasn't a comedy sketch.
Unknown Speaker (00:25:52.047)
I don't know if it included sketch elements. We often mix
Unknown Speaker (00:25:55.567)
news with sketch elements. But, uh, no, not, not the commentary on the reporting, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:00.166)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:00.886)
I think that it's very unwise to, uh, cut this line of defense off for yourself this early. Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:26:08.386)
that, that... 'Cause what's the consequence to being like, "Yeah, I'm a dipshit?" (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:26:12.686)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:12.767)
I, I, I-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:13.426)
There's, there's none.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:14.467)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:15.027)
There's just, there's just pure self-image here.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:17.987)
Do you think that your audience is going to be diminished by you saying in this setting-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:22.547)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:22.846)
... "I don't give a shit"?
Unknown Speaker (00:26:24.386)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:24.446)
No. Like, this is petty defiance, as opposed to, like, the defiance you really
Unknown Speaker (00:26:28.527)
should be, uh, embodying if you wanted to-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:31.386)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:31.467)
... navigate this.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:32.366)
Yeah. I mean, a, a clownish defiance would be both a perfect defense
Unknown Speaker (00:26:38.406)
and reinforce the defense that you're lying about-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:41.027)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:41.287)
... at the very least, you know?
Unknown Speaker (00:26:42.446)
He should bring Nick DiPaolo along as his lawyer-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:44.767)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:44.826)
... or something like that.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:45.807)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:46.326)
He should, he should make a, a farce of this whole thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:48.767)
Yeah, and then whenever... If this comes out
Unknown Speaker (00:26:50.846)
and people are like, "Oh, look at what Steven Crowder said," you could be like, "Yes, look at what I said."
Unknown Speaker (00:26:54.747)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:55.106)
Yeah, I win.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:55.686)
Instead of this, which is just kind of like-
Unknown Speaker (00:26:57.906)
You're a weasel child trying to get-
Unknown Speaker (00:27:00.067)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:00.067)
... out of, like, a book report.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:01.586)
Kind of.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:02.366)
This is pathetic.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:03.527)
So they, they get into the discussion of the business-
Unknown Speaker (00:27:06.747)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:06.946)
... and, like, whether or not Steven has a boss.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:10.287)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:10.666)
And it doesn't really appear that anyone can tell him what to do.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:14.126)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:14.507)
Let's talk a little bit about how things work at your business. Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:27:20.227)
first of all, you're the boss at Louder With Crowder, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:27:22.467)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:24.426)
I,
Unknown Speaker (00:27:25.646)
I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:27.027)
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm guessing, what I'm asking is,
Unknown Speaker (00:27:30.067)
if you're doing things throughout your workday, is there somebody who says, who can come to you
Unknown Speaker (00:27:35.126)
and says, "Steven, no, you can't cover that. You're not allowed to do that"?
Unknown Speaker (00:27:41.666)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:42.586)
Okay. Who would that person be?
Unknown Speaker (00:27:43.946)
My mom.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:44.487)
Probably gonna be a multitude of people.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:46.386)
Oh.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:47.086)
So there are a multitude of people at Louder With Crowder who have veto power
Unknown Speaker (00:27:50.747)
over what you can cover on your show?
Unknown Speaker (00:27:53.287)
Not a multitude of people who have, you know, wise counsel.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:55.906)
Sure. I have a lot of people in my life who have wise counsel. I, I listen to them and
Unknown Speaker (00:28:00.767)
take their thoughts into consideration, but they don't have control over me. And
Unknown Speaker (00:28:04.446)
I'm wondering if there's anybody at Louder With Crowder who
Unknown Speaker (00:28:06.586)
has control over you, who says, "If you do this, Steven, you're fired. You don't work here anymore."
Unknown Speaker (00:28:13.807)
At Louder With Crowder, no, no one can fire me.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:16.426)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:17.346)
And if you wanna say something on your show,
Unknown Speaker (00:28:20.227)
is there anybody who can stop you?
Unknown Speaker (00:28:25.227)
On my show? N- no.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:27.326)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:27.626)
So you have ultimate responsibility for whatever's on the show. No one can, uh, uh, affect your editorial. I
Unknown Speaker (00:28:33.267)
think that Mark was fishing for, like, your dad.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:35.747)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:36.146)
Uh, but, you know, this is just as good of an answer because now
Unknown Speaker (00:28:40.846)
Crowder's responsible for everything.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:42.307)
Bananas.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:43.326)
Yup.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:43.707)
Bananas that you can pin yourself in here-
Unknown Speaker (00:28:46.767)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:47.146)
... as being like a, uh, both, "Oh, everybody can tell me what to cover, and also
Unknown Speaker (00:28:53.326)
I tell everybody else what to do." Like, your, your incrimination is of your own making, sir.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:00.386)
Yeah, see, that's, that, that's the dynamic I was talking about early on, is like, he's, he's like,
Unknown Speaker (00:29:05.426)
"Uh, everyone gives me wise counsel, but no one can tell me what to do."
Unknown Speaker (00:29:09.047)
Oh, my God.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:09.787)
It's this, you're evasive, but also stupid.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:12.326)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:12.646)
And I, I don't know which is the dominant force.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:15.247)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're, you're, you're evading
Unknown Speaker (00:29:19.267)
believing yourself to be Bruce Lee.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:21.846)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:22.626)
But in actuality, you're like, "What if I run into a punch?"
Unknown Speaker (00:29:26.967)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:27.426)
That's winning.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:28.207)
Yeah, it... You're a sloth.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:29.626)
Yeah, insane.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:30.086)
And not a quick one.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:30.906)
No. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:29:31.906)
So, uh, the, the, uh...
Unknown Speaker (00:29:34.326)
Y- y- you know, we've seen these depositions with a lot of different people, and they have a lot of
Unknown Speaker (00:29:37.426)
different styles of answering questions.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:39.287)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:39.547)
And
Unknown Speaker (00:29:40.626)
I think that Crowder is unique in one way, uh, for sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:44.307)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:44.727)
And that is that, uh,
Unknown Speaker (00:29:47.146)
you know, Mark just asks him, "Would
Unknown Speaker (00:29:49.207)
it be your practice to confirm this shooter's picture?" And he's like, "No." (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:29:53.987)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:54.487)
He's just like-
Unknown Speaker (00:29:55.047)
All right. How about that? That's good.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:56.906)
He kind of owns that it's like, "No, I'm not gonna..."
Unknown Speaker (00:29:59.527)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:29:59.527)
"I don't need to confirm this."
Unknown Speaker (00:30:00.586)
Yeah. I like that.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:01.987)
You would agree that it would be the usual practice of Louder With Crowder... Let me
Unknown Speaker (00:30:09.146)
put it in an easier way. You, you agree it's, it's, it's your usual practice
Unknown Speaker (00:30:12.707)
to verify the accuracy of images you share with your audience?
Unknown Speaker (00:30:16.386)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:19.027)
Can you... Oh, sorry, can you restate the question? Because you told me this before.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:21.686)
Yeah, sure. It's...
Unknown Speaker (00:30:23.807)
If, if you're gonna share images with your audience of news events, right, thing, things that
Unknown Speaker (00:30:28.467)
depict news events, it's your usual practice to verify the accuracy of those images before you show them?
Unknown Speaker (00:30:33.987)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:37.446)
Sometimes.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:39.287)
Okay. Let's make it more specific. When you're gonna share
Unknown Speaker (00:30:42.826)
an image of a purported mass murderer, it would be your
Unknown Speaker (00:30:47.547)
usual practice to verify the accuracy of that image before showing it?
Unknown Speaker (00:30:51.346)
Objection, Form. And to clarify, Mark, just so, for
Unknown Speaker (00:30:54.807)
reference, are you referring to Steven individually or Louder With Crowder as a whole?
Unknown Speaker (00:30:58.146)
Him individually.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:59.067)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:00.207)
Go ahead.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:00.666)
Me individually? Then
Unknown Speaker (00:31:02.606)
no.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:04.067)
No. So
Unknown Speaker (00:31:05.567)
there are...
Unknown Speaker (00:31:07.007)
In other words, let's put it this way.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:11.807)
If you're gonna use, on May 8th, an image, you're gonna show your audience an image of
Unknown Speaker (00:31:16.186)
who is purportedly the mass murderer, is that something you're gonna
Unknown Speaker (00:31:19.126)
see before you go air? Or is this like a Ron Burgundy situation where you're seeing it for the first time?
Unknown Speaker (00:31:24.886)
Oh, appreciate the reference to Ron Burgundy.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:28.846)
Um, based on Jim Wolcott, actually, Canadian
Unknown Speaker (00:31:31.027)
Objection, Ron.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:32.646)
Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:31:33.487)
there's
Unknown Speaker (00:31:34.987)
a difference between
Unknown Speaker (00:31:36.527)
breaking news, for example, something that's exclusive to us, where there's a,
Unknown Speaker (00:31:39.866)
obviously a very strict, uh, a much more strict process of
Unknown Speaker (00:31:42.686)
due diligence if we are the news. Than there's reporting
Unknown Speaker (00:31:45.646)
on the news that is a- available publicly or reporting on someone else's report.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:50.086)
So, to answer your question, we would obviously, uh,
Unknown Speaker (00:31:53.626)
ensure that the reporting on that person's reporting is accurate, meaning
Unknown Speaker (00:31:57.547)
the original source would be the reporter.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:59.386)
So he's trying to make this distinction of
Unknown Speaker (00:32:03.646)
i- it's... First of all, the lawyer's question is very relevant.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:06.686)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:06.946)
Like, is it the business answer or-
Unknown Speaker (00:32:08.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:09.067)
... or Steven? Because Steven can very easily be like, "Individually, no."
Unknown Speaker (00:32:12.987)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:13.406)
It's a bi- it's a bigger problem for the business.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:15.267)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:16.007)
Um, but he, he is saying that if they have a scoop...
Unknown Speaker (00:32:19.694)
... and they're going to report it, then
Unknown Speaker (00:32:21.796)
there's a lot of fact-checking that needs to go into
Unknown Speaker (00:32:23.494)
it. But if they're just reporting on someone else's reporting, who gives a shit? So that's
Unknown Speaker (00:32:27.875)
kind of the angle that he's trying to take-
Unknown Speaker (00:32:30.174)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:30.394)
... which I actually think is probably what a lot of these people should do.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:35.095)
I suppose.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:35.654)
But it also won't get them out of trouble.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:37.434)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:37.994)
It's what they should do in terms of, like, "Yeah."
Unknown Speaker (00:32:42.115)
It's what-
Unknown Speaker (00:32:42.375)
"We're, we're reporting on reporting."
Unknown Speaker (00:32:43.914)
It's what they believe they should do,
Unknown Speaker (00:32:46.934)
whether or not they do it.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:48.214)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:48.275)
Do you know what I'm saying? And like, not,
Unknown Speaker (00:32:50.234)
not that they do it, but that when asked these questions, the response they give
Unknown Speaker (00:32:55.734)
is what they think they are doing, because
Unknown Speaker (00:32:57.955)
that's what they think they should be doing. They just won't admit that they're not actually doing it.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:02.075)
Uh-huh. Well, they wanna, they want, uh, the
Unknown Speaker (00:33:04.494)
presentation to the audience of what they're doing to be a lot more serious and severe-
Unknown Speaker (00:33:08.875)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:08.914)
... than what they, what they are doing.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:10.316)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:10.734)
But this is really what actually they're doing, which is,
Unknown Speaker (00:33:14.296)
"I saw a headline."
Unknown Speaker (00:33:15.275)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:16.015)
Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:33:17.055)
but (sighs) I, I think that at least it's biting a bullet in some ways that I think you kinda have to.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:23.215)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:23.796)
And, uh, d- I don't think I've seen that level of just like, "Yeah, no, it's not my practice to
Unknown Speaker (00:33:28.994)
verify every image that I show the audience."
Unknown Speaker (00:33:30.875)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:31.355)
Like that's a, th- owning that is something that I think
Unknown Speaker (00:33:33.474)
Crowder does that, uh, some of the other folks haven't.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:36.214)
Yeah, see, I think that's definitely part of it. That's why I would wanna do as much research and, like,
Unknown Speaker (00:33:41.835)
familiarize myself with everything that's going on here as much as possible. Because
Unknown Speaker (00:33:45.775)
if I know I'm gonna eat shit, then I'm gonna bring a
Unknown Speaker (00:33:48.095)
clown nose, you know, and I'm gonna honk my nose whenever I'm gonna be, uh, "Do you
Unknown Speaker (00:33:52.595)
fact-check?" "No." Honk. You know,
Unknown Speaker (00:33:54.496)
like, uh, b- yeah, "What are, w- what are we gonna do? Let's move on, let's go, next question."
Unknown Speaker (00:33:58.234)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:58.595)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:58.694)
If, if there's no way I'm coming out of this with looking serious, then I'm gonna really not look serious.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:03.336)
Then I'm really gonna not look ser- I'm not gonna try and be like salvage some, "No, no, no, I lost."
Unknown Speaker (00:34:08.695)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:09.014)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:09.474)
So there's, there's an interesting,
Unknown Speaker (00:34:11.215)
uh, thing that ends up happening at a few points during this, uh, deposition, which
Unknown Speaker (00:34:15.934)
may, uh, made me very uncomfortable.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:17.534)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:17.695)
And that is that Crowder tries to get fancy. Uh-
Unknown Speaker (00:34:22.014)
Oh boy.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:22.514)
And this was the first time that I've really felt like worried-
Unknown Speaker (00:34:26.414)
Oh.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:26.414)
... during the deposition.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:27.235)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:27.875)
Uh, Mark asks about, uh, sort of fact-checking other people's news that you're reporting on.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:33.835)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:34.094)
So
Unknown Speaker (00:34:35.255)
in terms of sharing an image, right, I
Unknown Speaker (00:34:38.554)
believe what I'm hearing is that, uh, if that's, if i- it is your original reporting,
Unknown Speaker (00:34:43.594)
you could have a higher level of care than when you are repeating someone else's reporting.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:48.954)
Is that fair?
Unknown Speaker (00:34:50.215)
No, what I'm saying is that there's a difference between
Unknown Speaker (00:34:53.255)
breaking news, being the subject of news, and reporting on someone
Unknown Speaker (00:34:56.574)
else's news. To use your example, like the DNC.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:00.034)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:00.175)
That's their story. They run images or claims. So we report on what they are running.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:06.875)
All right, let me give you an example. If the DNC puts up an image, all right, and says,
Unknown Speaker (00:35:13.695)
"Here is..." I mean, let me give you an example.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:16.335)
It says, uh, the DNC puts up an image of Mount Rushmore and says,
Unknown Speaker (00:35:20.275)
"This is the Washington Monument." All right?
Unknown Speaker (00:35:22.675)
You would be able to fairly and accurately report the DNC is saying
Unknown Speaker (00:35:27.855)
that this picture is the Washington Monument. That's fine.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:32.775)
Right? We're on the same page so far?
Unknown Speaker (00:35:34.054)
Yes, and I would show their picture.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.574)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:36.275)
All right, it would be different to say,
Unknown Speaker (00:35:39.815)
"Here is a picture that the DNC is showing
Unknown Speaker (00:35:42.894)
that is theirs, that they say is Mount Rushmore.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:46.195)
And I'm telling you they're right."
Unknown Speaker (00:35:48.894)
That's different,
Unknown Speaker (00:35:50.414)
in your mind, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:35:54.114)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:56.335)
That's the same thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:57.875)
So you can rep- in other words, this is what I'm trying to get at, is-
Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.454)
That is-
Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.934)
Hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.974)
... it is okay for you without investigating to report someone else's accusation as truthful?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:09.735)
To rep-
Unknown Speaker (00:36:10.335)
To report-
Unknown Speaker (00:36:11.275)
To report their reporting as authentic and truthful? Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:14.994)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:15.014)
If I believed, if I believed it was Mount Rushmore and they told me it was
Unknown Speaker (00:36:17.934)
Mount Rushmore, I'd show a picture, I'd show their picture.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:20.675)
And do it without any further checking?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:25.175)
Myself, at that moment in time, if I believed it was
Unknown Speaker (00:36:27.135)
Mount Rushmore that they were... Why would I not believe the DNC?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:30.795)
That's a good question.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:31.994)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:36:32.994)
DNC is, is an organization you might not always believe though, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:37.855)
That's fair.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:39.014)
Right? Um, they have, in your opinion-
Unknown Speaker (00:36:40.454)
Touche.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:40.914)
... credibility issues, I would take it, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:42.534)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:36:44.974)
It depends on who they are.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:48.114)
So in other words, what I'm saying is not all sources are equal, are they?
Unknown Speaker (00:36:52.934)
That's fair.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:53.715)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:53.914)
Y- yeah, I, I feel like I stepped in it. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:56.014)
Ugh.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:56.434)
I, I really tried to pull off a fun, uh, "I'm debating a college kid-"
Unknown Speaker (00:37:01.135)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:01.295)
"... better change my mind table-"
Unknown Speaker (00:37:03.135)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:03.434)
... kind of move.
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Unreal.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:05.215)
That's awful. Like-
Unknown Speaker (00:37:06.994)
Depose me, bro.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:08.054)
There is no reason for him to try something like this. Th- this is,
Unknown Speaker (00:37:15.394)
j- he must think that he's in a situation where there's no follow-ups.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:19.934)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:20.175)
Or there's no, there's no, like, he's talking to an idiot.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:22.855)
And it, I mean, it is, but yes, he does.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:26.034)
He alwa- he always thinks he's talking to an idiot, you know? Like, he feels,
Unknown Speaker (00:37:30.735)
like he was, he was like, "Oh, let me explain to you this thing."
Unknown Speaker (00:37:34.655)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:35.355)
Like,
Unknown Speaker (00:37:36.675)
"You know why we're here, buddy."
Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.655)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.934)
"But I guess you don't."
Unknown Speaker (00:37:41.034)
S- so, Stephen has now staked out a position that if he, uh, uh, uh,
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is a show that purports to fact-check news like the DNC,
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but also, uh, like, he bel- if he believes that they're telling the
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truth, he can report to his audience that a picture of the Washington Monument they posted
Unknown Speaker (00:37:56.375)
claiming it was Mount Rushmore is in fact Mount Rushmore.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:59.434)
He's claiming that he's fact-checking, but also if he wants to, he can just not fact-check-
Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.735)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.974)
... and say that not true things are accurate.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:06.474)
Right.
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His position is incoherent, because he's trying to answer questions in a way that he thinks will actually
Unknown Speaker (00:38:11.715)
one-up Mark's questions. It's wild to see because it's
Unknown Speaker (00:38:15.375)
100% doomed to failure, but you get the sense that Stephen keeps seeing possible little
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logic windows that he might be able to squeeze
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through, and then it's just like he gets
Unknown Speaker (00:38:23.755)
deflated when he realizes that Mark's not impressed and has a follow-up question.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:28.235)
Like, "Yeah, maybe the DNC is, uh, maybe you don't trust them." Yeah, maybe that's true.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:34.094)
At no point-
Unknown Speaker (00:38:35.554)
All right, man.
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... in time
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is any lawyer ever gonna be like, "Whoa."
Unknown Speaker (00:38:39.655)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:40.034)
"Holy shit." And then, like, that'll be it.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:43.114)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:43.795)
You're not gonna blow minds here.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:45.775)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:46.255)
This is not the place for that. Like, this is, there might as well be like a, a force field
Unknown Speaker (00:38:52.355)
that is like, leave your cognitive dissonance at the door. You
Unknown Speaker (00:38:55.554)
cannot hold two competing truths in your head in this room.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:59.295)
Yeah, and, and the only way you're gonna, like,
Unknown Speaker (00:39:02.114)
uh, get a dunk moment or something like this is to do like what Alex did-
Unknown Speaker (00:39:06.155)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:06.295)
... where he was yelling like, "Epstein didn't kill himself."
Unknown Speaker (00:39:08.054)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:08.614)
Like, just talk about something off-topic and yell.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:11.614)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:11.994)
Uh, you make a, make a scene. You can't get a gotcha moment like this-
Unknown Speaker (00:39:16.215)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:16.554)
... through some kind of elaborate, uh, like, uh, logic puzzle-
Unknown Speaker (00:39:21.275)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:21.534)
... kinda way. You're going to hit a wall.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:23.474)
This is amazin- the confidence with which these people behave is insane.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:28.514)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:28.614)
Because when I stop and really think about it, the idea of going into another professional person's arena
Unknown Speaker (00:39:36.375)
and then, like, acting like they don't know what's going on, despite the fact that you yourself have
Unknown Speaker (00:39:42.355)
proudly said you don't know what's going on, is insane.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:46.534)
Yeah, it would be like Steven Crowder getting into a roast battle with Don Rickles.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.614)
Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:51.835)
Not gonna go great.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:52.755)
"Oh, it's me one-on-one against LeBron."
Unknown Speaker (00:39:55.534)
Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:56.434)
No! Not a smart move, man!
Unknown Speaker (00:39:58.494)
Nah. So, uh, on our, on one of the other depositions, we heard the
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why is it important to have sources question.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:04.315)
It's very-
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Which you, ah, eh, very, uh, astutely pointed out was a trap.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:08.335)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:40:08.775)
Um, here is another bit of a trap, which is why is it important to get things correct?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:14.195)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:40:15.695)
Would you agree that it's important-
Unknown Speaker (00:40:18.295)
Let's start with the basics.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:19.635)
... to verify the accuracy of an image of a purported mass murderer before showing it to your audience?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:25.894)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:26.514)
Okay. Why is it important to verify the image of a mass murderer before showing it to your audience?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.775)
Well, the same reason that it would be important to
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verify anything.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:38.155)
Why is that?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:39.094)
Hm. If you are making a definitive claim-
Unknown Speaker (00:40:43.054)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:43.275)
... you should do your best to be accurate.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:45.496)
Why?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:48.916)
Because truth matters.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:50.894)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:40:51.474)
Just intrinsically or why? Because things happen? Things can happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:55.355)
Intrinsically.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:56.655)
Okay. So,
Unknown Speaker (00:40:58.594)
you understand though
Unknown Speaker (00:41:00.554)
that if false information is
Unknown Speaker (00:41:02.954)
post- is, is posted about somebody, is published about somebody, that can have effects
Unknown Speaker (00:41:07.875)
on the people who are the subject matter of those reports?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:12.375)
I would assume so.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:14.835)
Is that something that you can... Let, let's put it this way. If you have news
Unknown Speaker (00:41:18.675)
that you're going to report
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that, if false,
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could have a damaging effect on someone's reputation or cause them grief, you would agree you need
Unknown Speaker (00:41:27.855)
to take special care with that kind of news?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:31.554)
If one is making a definitive claim, they should do their best to be accurate.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:37.074)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:37.695)
So, you can see... I think that this clip actually
Unknown Speaker (00:41:40.355)
gives, uh, a real interesting view of two sides of the tension-Yeah.... that
Unknown Speaker (00:41:45.215)
is boiling under the surface here that can never really be resolved.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:49.554)
On Mark's side, he's trying to bring up the fact that actions have concrete consequences.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:54.755)
In this case, the act of not checking your facts has led to a man being incorrectly branded as a mass murderer
Unknown Speaker (00:42:00.235)
and directed harassment at a private individual. This
Unknown Speaker (00:42:03.054)
is part of why it's important to get things right, because
Unknown Speaker (00:42:05.675)
if you don't, you can hurt people and cause damage. On
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Steven's side, he's trying to argue that no matter the consequences,
Unknown Speaker (00:42:12.414)
it's just intrinsically important to be
Unknown Speaker (00:42:14.235)
right. It's an abstraction which is okay to believe, but it's being
Unknown Speaker (00:42:18.014)
deployed here to evade responsibility. In his view, uh, the reason
Unknown Speaker (00:42:22.614)
it's bad to get things wrong is that there's a platonic ideal of the
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truth that you have a responsibility to, and violating that is always wrong.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:30.635)
That's great and it sounds noble and high-minded, but
Unknown Speaker (00:42:33.594)
Crowder's only pretending to believe that because he knows that the court can't do shit
Unknown Speaker (00:42:37.454)
about enforcing platonic ideals.Yeah.He doesn't believe in this as a philosophical idea at all. It's just
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that he thinks that it absolves him from
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human consequences for his actions.Mm-hmm."I will be judged on the day I die for my adherence to the truth,"
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which is intrinsically important, as opposed to, like, "No,
Unknown Speaker (00:42:54.614)
who cares?"Yeah."You hurt this person because of your carelessness."
Unknown Speaker (00:42:58.715)
That's the consequence and the reason we're here.Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:02.695)
Another deposition pro tip, all right?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:05.695)
Uh, uh, this is what I would have done.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:08.574)
Before... Once I get asked one of those questions,
Unknown Speaker (00:43:10.934)
like at the beginning, that Steven Crowder, uh, answered as though it was a
Unknown Speaker (00:43:15.574)
question, right? Is the first thing, I would be like, "Hey, you can't talk to me like a child.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:19.835)
Sorry. No, thanks. You're gonna have to rephrase that like I'm an adult."
Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.235)
Even if I'm not. Because that way, an adult question is much easier to be like no or yes to
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without looking like an idiot.Um-You know what I'm saying?Yeah, but
Unknown Speaker (00:43:34.414)
I think as we get deeper into this, you'll realize that that's just not gonna work, like a-
Unknown Speaker (00:43:38.914)
asking adult-y questions.Uh, y- yeah.You kind of have to, um, like,
Unknown Speaker (00:43:44.695)
draw a picture for them. (laughs) It is, it is
Unknown Speaker (00:43:46.914)
really, it is really bad. It's really bad that
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I... 'Cause I can't even imagine allowing somebody to talk to me like that.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:53.094)
I would be like, "We cannot continue if you ask me questions in that tone
Unknown Speaker (00:43:57.815)
(laughs) and with that angle."Yeah. (laughs) I,
Unknown Speaker (00:44:01.375)
I, I think that it's earned.Oh, no, I agree.Um, but
Unknown Speaker (00:44:04.514)
I also agree that if it were me, if it were me,
Unknown Speaker (00:44:07.114)
we wouldn't get to the point where I'm being asked questions like a child.No, that's definitely true.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:10.494)
That's definitely true.But I also wouldn't enjoy it.Yeah, no, this is unacceptable.Um, so
Unknown Speaker (00:44:15.255)
I also think... when you're talking about pro tips, I think another good
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pro tip is don't get heady, don't get philosophical.Absolutely not.And, like,
Unknown Speaker (00:44:22.835)
you're in a deposition, you're not going to argue for your-It's not an argument.Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:27.574)
You're not going to be able to succeed in destroying consequentialist ethics
Unknown Speaker (00:44:31.934)
in this room (laughs) .Totally.Like, it's not gonna work. Just
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shut up.This, this isn't even the room where the argument
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happens in... for real.No.This is just a, this is just a conversa-
Unknown Speaker (00:44:41.494)
uh, yeah, crazy.So, as, uh, Crowder is sort of a, a
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journalist-Yeah.... uh, Mark asks him
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what would be, be described as a very
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basic journalism question-Sure.... which is, "What's the difference
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between a primary and secondary source?"Oh, you should get that
Unknown Speaker (00:44:54.894)
i- within two semesters of school.I think that- (laughs) ... Steven understands it and also doesn't.Mm.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:01.894)
Do you know the difference between a primary and a secondary source?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:05.494)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:07.454)
Okay. Can, can you help us understand that first by telling us what is a primary source?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:11.675)
Objection, Court.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:13.474)
Well, it would depend on the context when you're discussing, um-
Unknown Speaker (00:45:15.775)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:45:16.414)
... journalism or if you're discussing, like I said, commenting on someone else's journalism.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:20.554)
Primary source would be the primary reference point,
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the person who's the originator of it, and the secondary source-
Unknown Speaker (00:45:25.574)
Oh, my God.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:26.215)
... would be a corroborating resource
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confirming or also covering it.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:29.735)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:31.534)
I'm gonna kind of give you what I believe would be the understanding that I'm operating from, just so we can
Unknown Speaker (00:45:36.755)
talk using the same terminology, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:38.815)
Like, if I was gonna tell you... if I'm gonna talk about a chair, I'm gonna tell you what a chair is, right? Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:45:43.934)
have you ever heard that a primary source
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would be information that originates from a person or entity
Unknown Speaker (00:45:51.574)
that is, either has a firsthand account or isn't actively involved in the events being reported?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:56.215)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.054)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.394)
Hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.574)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.655)
And then
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a
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newspaper, for instance, or a academic treatise or some other publication
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that is writing about an event that it did not have firsthand involvement
Unknown Speaker (00:46:11.175)
in, that'd be a secondary source. Does that seem fair?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:14.974)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:15.655)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:19.675)
In terms of...
Unknown Speaker (00:46:22.014)
Let me, let me put it this way. Um,
Unknown Speaker (00:46:25.434)
you would agree
Unknown Speaker (00:46:27.295)
you should not display the image of a suspected mass murderer
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unless the image had been confirmed by someone involved in the official investigation
Unknown Speaker (00:46:37.135)
or by reference to some kind of primary source.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:40.715)
Do you agree with that?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:41.795)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:43.114)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:44.514)
And would you agree that you don't fulfill your responsibility
Unknown Speaker (00:46:48.534)
in verifying the photo of a mass murderer
Unknown Speaker (00:46:51.175)
by assuming that another news organization has verified the photo?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:55.894)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:56.835)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:57.514)
I don't agree.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:58.094)
Interesting.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:00.054)
Is that possible?
Unknown Speaker (00:47:00.855)
What are your requirements for publishing a photo allegedly showing a mass murderer?
Unknown Speaker (00:47:04.715)
Objection, Court.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:07.375)
So, the process would be similar for any stories that, in which we're not the primary source-
Unknown Speaker (00:47:12.715)
Dude.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:13.014)
... to use your example.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:14.894)
Um, would be to find at least one,
Unknown Speaker (00:47:18.034)
uh,
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source that would be-
Unknown Speaker (00:47:19.675)
Oh, my god.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:20.114)
... used legitimately.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:21.974)
So usually that's why, you know, when we provide references, we also provide
Unknown Speaker (00:47:24.635)
sources, which we make available every day, uh, for every show, and then confirm it with, uh,
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another source where it is available.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:32.994)
That would be the process when it's someone else's reporting.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:37.675)
Does it matter who's reporting it?
Unknown Speaker (00:47:40.335)
That's why I said you try and find the
Unknown Speaker (00:47:43.574)
init- you know, the most credible source to use as a
Unknown Speaker (00:47:45.775)
primary source, because it's a little different than covering news.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:48.355)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (00:47:48.954)
So, to give you an example, um,
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if there is a new study conducted on, let's say,
Unknown Speaker (00:47:55.094)
medical... a COVID intervention, primary source would be one on
Unknown Speaker (00:47:57.994)
PubMed, right, the people who conducted the trial.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:00.994)
Secondary source would be
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CNN covering said
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tr- clinical trial.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:06.335)
So,
Unknown Speaker (00:48:07.135)
same principle, but it's a little different when covering someone else's reporting. So, the primary
Unknown Speaker (00:48:10.494)
source that we would look for would be,
Unknown Speaker (00:48:12.295)
um,
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as
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authoritative
Unknown Speaker (00:48:15.815)
as available at that time.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:16.735)
So,
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I think that there's something wild going
Unknown Speaker (00:48:20.454)
on here.Yeah.And that is that the example
Unknown Speaker (00:48:22.474)
that Crowder gave there at the end is correct.Yes.That would be a primary and a secondary source.It would
Unknown Speaker (00:48:27.275)
be.But conceptually, I don't think he understands what the words mean.I
Unknown Speaker (00:48:31.594)
agree with you.I think he means the primary
Unknown Speaker (00:48:33.635)
source is the one that we're basing this stuff on-Yes.... and then the secondary one is...
Unknown Speaker (00:56:45.766)
Yes, sir.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:46.688)
And that in providing that information, the information that you had,
Unknown Speaker (00:56:51.527)
you demonstrate that the media was lying about the shooter.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:54.987)
Primarily that the media was lying about the shooter-
Unknown Speaker (00:56:58.527)
Oh my God.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:58.987)
... seems to be a copy written there by, by Brodigan, yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:01.447)
Sure. Let's, let's change that.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:02.547)
So............................ the media.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:03.967)
Because the, the shooting, the shooting itself is a bigger topic than
Unknown Speaker (00:57:08.126)
the shooter, right? Just one person. Um, so let me ask that again.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:12.047)
Y- you had information on the shooter, and you would be refuting the media's lies about the shooter.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:19.527)
Well, that's a description-
Unknown Speaker (00:57:22.068)
That's what we're here for.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:22.507)
That's a description written by Brodigan on the website, a synopsis of the show.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:27.246)
I spoke on the program regarding the media lies and what they were.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:31.347)
Let's take a look at that. Um, let's bring up tab three.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:35.007)
Oh, God. That's, that's where you gotta be real worried. That's, he keeps being like, "Well, you know, I, uh,
Unknown Speaker (00:57:40.708)
I don't know if those are my words." Let's pull up, uh... Do you think I don't have your words?
Unknown Speaker (00:57:44.246)
What are you fucking doing?
Unknown Speaker (00:57:46.106)
Do you think that they, they don't prepare? Like, what are you, what are you expecting here, Steve?
Unknown Speaker (00:57:50.626)
If... It, it is the level of, like, "If I cover my eyes, then I'm invisible, so you can't see me."
Unknown Speaker (00:57:56.206)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:56.867)
Like, it is, it is ins-, it is insane that, that... Like, "Well, I didn't read any of this to prepare-"
Unknown Speaker (00:58:02.027)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:02.027)
"... so you probably didn't either."
Unknown Speaker (00:58:03.606)
Yeah. "I don't care about this, so why should you?"
Unknown Speaker (00:58:06.527)
I- it's, it's, uh, it's, it's wild. D- I- I- just, it's just banana peels.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:10.847)
Is there-
Unknown Speaker (00:58:11.166)
He's just walking, he's walking along, hitting a banana peel-"
Unknown Speaker (00:58:13.547)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:13.686)
"... getting back up, hitting another banana peel."
Unknown Speaker (00:58:15.646)
It's crazy.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:16.387)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:16.806)
Is there, like, a, a... Is there... Maybe I should have asked this question better
Unknown Speaker (00:58:21.166)
at some point in time of, like, is there a law in these depositions that says the lawyer can't say anything
Unknown Speaker (00:58:28.067)
but objection, one thing or another?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:30.507)
I think, I think yes. I think you're not supposed to. I think it's bad form
Unknown Speaker (00:58:34.967)
to, uh... 'Cause I, I know that, like, when
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Barnes was getting into arguments, uh, with the lawyers and stuff-
Unknown Speaker (00:58:41.586)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:41.586)
... that was, uh, considered poor form.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:44.347)
Sure. But, I mean, I'm not even talking about that. I mean, like, as a lawyer
Unknown Speaker (00:58:48.067)
to my client, can I say something like, "Hey, that is a question that you must answer,
Unknown Speaker (00:58:53.907)
honestly-"
Unknown Speaker (00:58:54.686)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:55.067)
"... but try not doing it like a fucking idiot"?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:57.567)
I, I think that would be poor form, too.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:59.427)
What I think you can do is, like, request a break and, like, talk to your client.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:04.246)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:04.547)
I think that you can do that.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:05.847)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:06.027)
I think that's more the accepted, uh...
Unknown Speaker (00:59:08.166)
All right. So, so if I'm a good lawyer,
Unknown Speaker (00:59:11.467)
and by that I'm gonna mean somebody who is looking out for the interests of their client
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as opposed to their own personal interests-
Unknown Speaker (00:59:18.186)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:18.686)
... I am saying, "Let's go outside for a second.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:21.887)
Okay, now we're outside. Keep your answers to yes or no. You sound like a fucking moron."
Unknown Speaker (00:59:26.286)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:26.567)
Right? But now, if I'm out here looking for billable hours, I'm going, "Objection form."
Unknown Speaker (00:59:32.186)
If you're looking, if you're looking out
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for the interest of the client, you, like, request a break and pull a fire alarm.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:37.186)
I mean, this is crazy.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:38.606)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:39.067)
How do you listen to this as a l- as a person's lawyer
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who is there for them and not go, like, "Ooh, this sounds dumb"?
Unknown Speaker (00:59:46.927)
I don't know. How do you be an agent or a
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manager and see him do standup and think, like, "This is a good set"? Like, what do you do?
Unknown Speaker (00:59:53.527)
That's a really good point.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:54.606)
How are you his dad or one of his producers and be like, "This show is crushing it"?
Unknown Speaker (00:59:57.987)
I mean, I guess if you're his dad, you have a biological imperative to care in some form or another.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:03.987)
I don't know if it, I don't know if it extends to thinking his show is good.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:07.126)
Eh, it doesn't extend in that way to my family (laughs) .
Unknown Speaker (01:00:11.367)
So, uh, Mark at the end of that last clip was like, uh, "Let's go to the clip."
Unknown Speaker (01:00:14.806)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:14.967)
"Let's hear you on the show."
Unknown Speaker (01:00:16.186)
Let's sh- Uh, wh- if we have to do this, we have to do it.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:18.586)
Yeah, you could say that Brodigan or whoever is writing on the website, but what about you?
Unknown Speaker (01:00:22.766)
Fine.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:23.186)
And so here is the clip from Steven's show.
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Jesus Christ.
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I spoke on
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the program regarding the media lies and what they were.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:31.427)
Well, let's take a look at that. Um, let's bring up tab
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three. All right. I'm gonna show you an excerpt, um, that I wanna ask you some
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questions about from your May 8th show. So let's play that now.
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W- let's... Who the shooter was first. Okay.
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So you're gonna hear the media give you some reports. Um,
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a lot of what they say is bullshit. All right.
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Shooter was a 33-year-old Hispanic male. His name was Mauricio Garcia.
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Oh!
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Mauricio Garcia. Now-
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Oh, I said it twice.
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The reason that we are pulling this, and you're
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asking yourself because we make the references available, we're pulling this from Today News Africa-
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(laughs)
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... is because it's the only, the only news outfit showing you the shooter's face.
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You won't find his face in, here you go, NBC,
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Wall Street Journal, CNN, CBS, Washington Post. They want to tell you
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that he was a white supremacist-
Unknown Speaker (01:01:27.967)
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:28.007)
Yes.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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And not see his very Hispanic-looking face.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:31.666)
Right. And, uh, a second ago, I actually
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signaled you because CNN had that lower kind of chyron that said basically
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that this person was influenced by white supremacy. That's the headline-
Unknown Speaker (01:01:40.847)
Hmm.
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... that they're running with right now over, over, over, over-
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Yeah.
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... to make sure they drill it in.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:45.507)
Okay. My first question is
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in the lead-up to that show, you had been reviewing a lot of media coverage about the shooting.
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Objection form.
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Y- Yes.
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Okay.
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Um,
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and that review of the media coverage
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showed that Today News Africa
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was the only news outfit reported to show a picture of the shooter's face.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:13.467)
Correct?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:14.427)
C- c- can you rephrase, uh, repeat the question?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:16.186)
Yeah, sure. That review of media coverage-
Unknown Speaker (01:02:19.467)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:19.686)
... that showed that Today News Africa was the only
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news outfit showing, purported to, purporting to show the shooter's face.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:28.086)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:29.646)
Okay. So when you said, "We're pulling this from Today News Africa," and it's because it's the only
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news outfit showing you the shooter's face, that wasn't accurate?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:38.106)
Sorry, what was the last part of that question? Again?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:40.766)
If that wasn't accurate, what you said in the video.
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What I was saying was it was the only place currently
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with an article including the, uh, image of the shooter. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:51.567)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:51.867)
Not at that moment in time, because I deleted it.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:53.226)
Right. So, so when you were making that broadcast,
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your review of media had shown you that
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Today News Africa was the only news outfit doing that, showing a purported picture of the shooter's face?
Unknown Speaker (01:03:05.766)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:06.927)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:07.827)
I'm a little confused, 'cause I thought what you-
Unknown Speaker (01:03:09.547)
I am, too.
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... just said was that at that time, that's why you said that. It's the only,
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uh, news outfit showing you the shooter's face.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:15.487)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:16.226)
Is that right, or is that not right?
Unknown Speaker (01:03:17.867)
No. It was, it was the only place at that moment in time with an active article including that image.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:24.067)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:24.067)
Of course, there were many other-
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So-
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... places that had created for social media. So at that
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moment in time, because I was a well-liked-ass, uh, press-credentialed reporter.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:34.987)
Well, no, uh, that's... All I'm asking about is that moment in time.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:37.927)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:38.586)
And that they're the only news outfit purporting to show the shooter's face. We can agree with that.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:45.347)
I, uh, uh, I, I don't, I don't agree.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:47.367)
Can you tell me, can you tell me the news outfits that at that moment in time were showing the shooter's face?
Unknown Speaker (01:03:52.387)
You know, it would be difficult to remember. It was
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everywhere on social media and different articles, so...
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Steven looks like a total idiot here, because he's trying to pretend, uh,
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not to understand v- a very basic question about what he said on his show, which he
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just listened to. He just listened to the show. He can't be like, "I don't remember what I said."
Unknown Speaker (01:04:10.907)
In the clip, Steven said that he used Today News Africa as a source because
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no one else would post the mugshot since they didn't want everyone to
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know that the shooter was a Hispanic man.
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The point he's making relies on an understanding that he
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had to choose this source because he reviewed all the other news outlets
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and they were all too anti-white to post the mugshot. So, hence, he had to go with this one.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:31.907)
Mark is trying to ask about this because it implies a level of
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heavy preparation behind the statements that Steven's making. And
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one might think that if he did any preparation
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for his show, it's certainly strange that he didn't notice glaring problems, like
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how the shooter wouldn't have a booking photo because he was dead and had no criminal history.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:48.726)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:49.367)
Steven is playing these kinds of verbal games because the alternative is to admit in this deposition room
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that he knows that his job is to spout bullshit meant to defend white identity beliefs.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:58.527)
And that's probably not something that his dad wants.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:01.467)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:02.626)
Yeah!Another thing that I would explain to him if I was a lawyer, uh, if I was
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his lawyer, and again, not trying to get
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billable hours, is that essentially
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what you're experiencing in this deposition is an algebra problem, right? So
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we've got, uh, whatever algebra, I don't know
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what, I don't even remember what this formula means. Y equals MX plus, uh, plu- uh, equals B, whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:28.090)
That's, uh, i- I think that's, uh, about slopes.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:30.150)
Something like that. Y=MX+B?
Unknown Speaker (01:05:32.210)
I think so.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:32.371)
Sounds right to me. So
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the point being here is what, once we figure out what B is,
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that's this series of questions. I am narrowing down the answer-
Unknown Speaker (01:05:41.911)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:41.911)
...to determine exactly what B is. Then this
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series of questions gives us M, then this series of questions gives us X. And no matter what you say-
Unknown Speaker (01:05:50.490)
Hmm.
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...now I know who, what Y is.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:53.552)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:53.831)
So th- once we get to the Y part, you have to answer why, whether you like it or not.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:59.391)
O- a- and-
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The math is done.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:00.630)
And if you don't, it, like, we kind of have figured it out.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:03.731)
Yeah. It's, you, we're, d- we know what you're doing.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:06.771)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:07.050)
Yeah.
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Um, and so also, I, I, um, the end of the, the thing that's, uh,
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you know, interesting about this case is that the name is correct.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:15.670)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:15.931)
Mar- Mauricio Garcia is the right name of the shooter.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:19.010)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:19.070)
It's just that the picture was the wrong Mauricio Garcia.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:22.271)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:22.791)
So, like, him saying the name isn't that big of a deal. It's the showing the, the-
Unknown Speaker (01:06:27.070)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:27.351)
...image.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:27.731)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:28.510)
Um, and so that, that also becomes, uh,
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really complicated in the deposition setting, because he's, you know,
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you, you say, uh, the name and you're referring to both people-
Unknown Speaker (01:06:40.110)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:40.331)
...sort of. And, uh, it, there's a lack of clarity sometimes.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:43.251)
Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:43.530)
Um, so Stephen has this problem, and that is that the media didn't report a picture of the shooter at all.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:51.871)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:52.351)
And he, so he's defending himself publishing this wrong photo-
Unknown Speaker (01:06:56.411)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:56.771)
...because no one else published a photo of, uh, the shooter.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:01.351)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:01.791)
And so Mark is trying to walk him through this and understand how syntax works.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:07.490)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:08.050)
Um, and this is just troubling from a, a mental understanding.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:13.371)
From an adult man.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:14.391)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:15.070)
Um, I want to ask you, though, in the video
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you said,
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"You won't find his face in NBC, Wall Street Journal, CNN, CBS, The Washington Post.
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They want to tell you that he was a white supremacist and not see his very Hispanic-looking face."
Unknown Speaker (01:07:34.231)
Do you remember saying that in the video?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:35.831)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:36.891)
All right. So we can agree that you told your viewers
Unknown Speaker (01:07:40.610)
that mainstream media outlets were hiding the picture from the public for nefarious political reasons?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:46.650)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:49.050)
Which picture?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:50.590)
The picture you were displaying from Today News Africa.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:53.431)
No. No. No, I don't agree.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:55.411)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:59.951)
So when you said that you won't find his face in those outlets, and they want to tell
Unknown Speaker (01:08:04.351)
you that he was a white supremacist and
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not see his very Hispanic-looking face, you're saying that's a choice
Unknown Speaker (01:08:10.271)
they made, right? These media outlets made a choice?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:14.570)
To, to include no image verification, yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:17.411)
To include no image verification-
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Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:19.091)
...of the shooter, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:20.190)
So...
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Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:21.411)
...o-
Unknown Speaker (01:08:21.430)
Right. And the reason that they didn't include
Unknown Speaker (01:08:24.650)
pictures of the shooter, the reason you had to get it from Today News Africa, is because
Unknown Speaker (01:08:28.970)
they didn't want the public to see the shooter's face. That was what you were telling your audience.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:33.411)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:36.051)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:38.131)
Uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:08:40.310)
okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:40.690)
I'm, I'm having trouble reconciling what you're saying now with what you said in the video,
Unknown Speaker (01:08:45.190)
because you said straight up that
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they don't want you to see his very Hispanic-looking face.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:50.070)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:50.631)
So that we can say the media outlets made a decision
Unknown Speaker (01:08:54.470)
for political reasons, to say that he was a white supremacist, that they did
Unknown Speaker (01:08:58.070)
not want to show his face. Right? That's what you were telling your audience?
Unknown Speaker (01:09:01.591)
To show any images, sure, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:04.270)
I'm sorry?
Unknown Speaker (01:09:04.690)
Right. And you had an image, right? You had one
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that you think they should've shown.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:09.511)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:11.511)
I, no, I believe they should've shown any image.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:14.070)
I'm sorry?
Unknown Speaker (01:09:15.511)
Oh my God, just exhausting.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:18.030)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:09:19.490)
Just, just what is this person talking about? Like-
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Wow.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:22.631)
...the, uh, w-
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obviously it's just, "I wanted to say that this was a Hispanic person. I wanted to talk about that."
Unknown Speaker (01:09:29.871)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:29.970)
"And I didn't like that the media was saying that he was
Unknown Speaker (01:09:31.871)
a white supremacist, and that bothered me." I'm... Wah!
Unknown Speaker (01:09:36.591)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:09:36.890)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:37.951)
I have, okay, here's, maybe here's what we, here's what, oh, no, I just don't know how you can do it.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:44.711)
I will say, or perhaps this, right? Okay, we all know
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that enhanced interrogation techniques don't work to get-
Unknown Speaker (01:09:53.451)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:53.711)
...accurate information. They only work to get information that you already want to
Unknown Speaker (01:09:57.490)
get, because you won't stop until you receive that information.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:00.390)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:00.711)
Right? But there's gotta be something to keep that pulling teeth from happening. So I say we pull teeth!
Unknown Speaker (01:10:07.030)
Mm.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:07.470)
All right? Any time we get into there, we get to take a tooth.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:10.890)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:11.150)
We get to take a full Crowder tooth.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:13.451)
Any time we get into a position where we're explaining how, uh, like, just basic words-
Unknown Speaker (01:10:19.791)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:20.251)
...and their relationship to each other in a sentence work-
Unknown Speaker (01:10:22.331)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:22.650)
...you got a tooth coming.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:23.890)
Right, right, right. I don't think it's, I don't think you should torture
Unknown Speaker (01:10:27.591)
to get information. But you should torture
Unknown Speaker (01:10:31.310)
to
Unknown Speaker (01:10:32.511)
get somebody to understand the basics of language.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:34.711)
I, I don't-
Unknown Speaker (01:10:35.131)
I don't, I don't feel like I'm, I don't, I feel like I'm not going in a good place with this.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:38.711)
Yeah, I don't, I don't agree-
Unknown Speaker (01:10:39.711)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:10:39.711)
...I don't, I don't agree with you on this.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:40.610)
I don't either. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:10:42.451)
But, but I also think that when you have somebody who's, uh, showcasing this level of understanding-
Unknown Speaker (01:10:48.671)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:48.970)
...about what things mean, and, uh, like,
Unknown Speaker (01:10:52.110)
I don't think you can ask them questions.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:54.511)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:54.810)
I, I really don't know if it's productive, 'cause they're just kind of dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:00.110)
Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:01.030)
And I, I don't mean that to be like, you're worse as a person if you're dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:06.030)
Mm-mm.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:06.430)
But you're, he's not equipped to understand what some of these concepts mean-
Unknown Speaker (01:11:10.831)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:11.190)
...or deal with, uh, the relationships between ideas. Like it's just he is
Unknown Speaker (01:11:18.150)
dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:18.511)
Yeah, uh, I mean, I think we, maybe, maybe, you know, not inherently, not dumb in the sense of, like,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:26.530)
this man was born dumb. But dumb in the sense that he has willfully remained
Unknown Speaker (01:11:31.070)
ignorant of things that he should absolutely know
Unknown Speaker (01:11:34.390)
in order to function in a society that shares these, these beliefs.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:37.190)
And presented himself as, like, an expert-
Unknown Speaker (01:11:40.551)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:40.551)
...in the world of taking these ideas into-
Unknown Speaker (01:11:43.331)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:43.671)
...to account. It's-
Unknown Speaker (01:11:44.310)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:44.911)
It's a mess.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:45.610)
Yeah, no, the, his sentence should be going to school.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:48.610)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:49.030)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:49.371)
And, and, and, and like, it, it just gets worse. Like,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:52.650)
so Mark's trying to explain to him that there are two possibilities, uh, in front of us.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:57.530)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:57.951)
And one is that the media decided not to post this picture-
Unknown Speaker (01:12:02.251)
Oh, boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:02.570)
...because they're doing a cover-up.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:03.911)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:04.270)
And the other one is, they had seen the photo that you used and decided it wasn't good.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:10.371)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:11.070)
So, is, wh- which is-
Unknown Speaker (01:12:12.850)
Fuck! (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:12:13.671)
(laughs) Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:15.091)
I want to talk about two possibilities
Unknown Speaker (01:12:18.190)
that existed for you on May 8th, all right?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:21.411)
One possibility
Unknown Speaker (01:12:23.030)
is that major, major media organizations made a decision
Unknown Speaker (01:12:26.990)
that they were not going to show any pictures of the shooter's face, and they were
Unknown Speaker (01:12:31.051)
doing that because they wanted to press a story about white supremacy.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:35.131)
And a second possibility is that those news organizations were either
Unknown Speaker (01:12:38.631)
unable to confirm the accuracy of a photo, or they had already determined that the
Unknown Speaker (01:12:43.270)
photo that you were showing was false.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:46.091)
All right? You understand those two possibilities?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:49.610)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:50.690)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:12:51.430)
I'm, I'm not saying you agree with them. I'm understanding you understand that those are two
Unknown Speaker (01:12:54.650)
possibilities that existed for you.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:56.511)
No, the second one, the second one is not possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:58.511)
It is not possible that the news organizations you are referring to
Unknown Speaker (01:13:02.530)
were un- either unable to confirm the accuracy of the
Unknown Speaker (01:13:05.230)
photo or had already determined it was false? You're saying that's impossible?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:08.762)
You just said, had determined the image I showed was false.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:11.802)
Correct.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:12.203)
They would not have been able to do that because I was reporting on their reporting.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:16.663)
So, they wouldn't have been able to report on my image being false or confirm it, because
Unknown Speaker (01:13:20.603)
their stories were already out there.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:23.262)
It wasn't your image though.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:25.844)
All right?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:26.684)
Beg your pardon?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:27.143)
We just talked about, you didn't break this image.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:29.722)
Well, sorry, when you said my image that they wouldn't... You said second possibility definitively
Unknown Speaker (01:13:34.323)
using, that they determined my image was false. I was-
Unknown Speaker (01:13:37.382)
The image, the image you used.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:38.842)
... reported, so that wouldn't be possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:40.762)
Let's rephrase that, 'cause I'm just saying the image you used. All right? Let's take the image you used
Unknown Speaker (01:13:46.563)
and divorce it from your, your production. Right?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:49.823)
That is a physical image that existed out there in the world. Right?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:53.443)
That image, yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:54.422)
Yes. It is totally possible
Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.563)
that the reason the media wasn't printing any pictures of the shooter
Unknown Speaker (01:14:01.082)
is because they'd been unable to confirm the authenticity of any picture, or they had already
Unknown Speaker (01:14:05.684)
confirmed that that picture we're talking about,
Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.643)
that picture of my client, they had already determined it was false. That's possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:13.903)
It's possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:14.842)
Now, by God.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:16.502)
Now, with these possibilities, you have one where the media intentionally doesn't want to show the picture
Unknown Speaker (01:14:22.422)
for political reasons, or two, they had simply been unable to confirm a picture.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:28.382)
The second possibility is more likely. You'll agree to that?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:31.163)
Objection, court.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:32.082)
No, I don't agree.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:33.262)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:34.302)
So, I, I, it's, it's a, it's a faint praise,
Unknown Speaker (01:14:37.002)
but there is a small little bit of like, well, at least Steven's sticking to his guns here,
Unknown Speaker (01:14:41.042)
you know. At least at the end he's, he's just being like, "Yeah, no, that's not more likely.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:45.764)
The very obviously more likely scenario is not more likely."
Unknown Speaker (01:14:49.143)
Um, but this is worrying.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:51.622)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:51.882)
Like, this i- i- is Steven eith- is either so stupid or is so bad at arguing
Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.962)
that he thinks that he's got a gotcha moment out of like, "No, it's impossible that they could have-"
Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.203)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.523)
"...fact-checked my story before I did the story."
Unknown Speaker (01:15:08.943)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:09.363)
It's, they, you can't time travel. What? Ha ha. The ergo-
Unknown Speaker (01:15:13.842)
I mean...
Unknown Speaker (01:15:14.103)
... I win.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:14.643)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:15.283)
Um, it, it's
Unknown Speaker (01:15:16.863)
really, really, really dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:18.262)
Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is to the point now where it feels
Unknown Speaker (01:15:24.143)
like... It feels like beating up on a child
Unknown Speaker (01:15:29.802)
and it feels like the lawyer should act as the,
Unknown Speaker (01:15:32.882)
should step in, in some form or another to be like, "Uh, uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:15:36.722)
Mark, my client's not capable of understanding your words."
Unknown Speaker (01:15:39.283)
Yeah. Throw in the towel.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:40.262)
Yeah. Like, "Here's what you do. You send me a bunch of, uh, a bunch of things that you want him to have said."
Unknown Speaker (01:15:46.722)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:47.063)
"I'll, uh, put a little blank there. I'll give him a stamp that says yes or no, and he'll just at
Unknown Speaker (01:15:51.563)
random press yes or no to fill in the blanks."
Unknown Speaker (01:15:54.082)
Yeah. Like, I felt really bad for Rob Dew whenever he was doing his corporate, uh-
Unknown Speaker (01:15:59.722)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:59.722)
... representative deposition. But it was bad in a way of like, "Oh, you're in over your head, buddy."
Unknown Speaker (01:16:03.802)
Yeah, totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:04.302)
And, and there was not a like, he doesn't comprehend
Unknown Speaker (01:16:07.243)
this. It's just like, you're never gonna be able to navigate this-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:09.703)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:10.042)
... thing you're unprepared for.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:11.462)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:11.682)
With Steven, it does feel like the slaughter rule should be enacted-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:15.542)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:16.002)
... in a way that I don't think I've seen
Unknown Speaker (01:16:17.703)
since maybe... I, I don't know if I've
Unknown Speaker (01:16:20.563)
seen it in any of these depositions. Honestly, like Kit Daniels started crying and like-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:24.682)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:24.682)
... that is even le- uh, less embarrassing or less-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:27.443)
But no, it made-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:28.262)
... embarrassing.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:28.682)
That actually, uh, him crying
Unknown Speaker (01:16:31.182)
suggests an awareness-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:32.483)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:32.542)
... of what is occurring in totality.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:34.443)
It's a r- it's a recognition of reality and being overwhelmed by-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:37.342)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:37.922)
... the, the
Unknown Speaker (01:16:39.023)
what has happened.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:39.882)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:40.483)
And that is human and respectable.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:42.823)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:43.323)
This is somebody who can't really even
Unknown Speaker (01:16:46.023)
fully engage with ideas.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:47.563)
Yeah. And with-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.443)
And-
Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.483)
Yeah, w- like you're saying, with Rob,
Unknown Speaker (01:16:50.283)
it wasn't a matter of like, "I don't understand what's going on." It's a matter of once Rob got it, he was like,
Unknown Speaker (01:16:56.502)
"Oh, I am not prepared for this in any fashion." So, there's really
Unknown Speaker (01:17:01.582)
w- what, I got nothing to lose.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.023)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.162)
In a sense, you know?
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.943)
I'm gonna try and dodge bullets.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:05.842)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:06.122)
Uh, I
Unknown Speaker (01:17:07.762)
probably can't-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:08.262)
I'm gonna use whatever tools I have available, but I was, um, as I'm looking at my quiver-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.703)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.823)
... it's borderline empty.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:14.162)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:14.443)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:14.703)
And, and it's mostly, uh, defensive, just kind of like, uh, let's just be-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:19.243)
I like being in here.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.363)
Yeah, but-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.762)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.983)
... but also playing defense.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:22.523)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:23.162)
And, and Crowder's going on the offense at points like this.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.802)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:27.082)
And it's like,
Unknown Speaker (01:17:28.382)
wha- that's d- you're stupid. You th- you think this is a point that's worth making.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:32.962)
You think that there's something here and-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:34.943)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:35.182)
... it's just... I don't know, it feels very immature.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:37.962)
Yeah, it feels, it feels like at that, at that point, I felt more angry with the, with his lawyer for not
Unknown Speaker (01:17:45.323)
being like, aware of this. Like, how-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:47.842)
Maybe there- maybe there's nothing he can do.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:49.342)
Uh, maybe.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:50.403)
So, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit, uh, because there's just some clips about the Today News Africa.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:56.082)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:56.323)
Uh, and Steven's insistence that like,
Unknown Speaker (01:17:59.363)
"I took this seriously because it was a White House credentialed reporter,"
Unknown Speaker (01:18:03.682)
and so Marcus is explaining that, uh, that doesn't mean anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:06.882)
"We all know that you had to go to Today News Africa for one reason only."
Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.382)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.703)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.743)
And that the White House, uh, being a
Unknown Speaker (01:18:15.283)
White House reporter might just mean that they have a pass to go to the White House.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:19.082)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:19.422)
Like, it's, it doesn't mean-
Unknown Speaker (01:18:20.863)
It doesn't have meaning.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:22.162)
Yeah. And so there's an attempt to try and get like, "Okay, what is a credible source?"
Unknown Speaker (01:18:26.943)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:27.462)
And, and what comes out of it is really just a, uh, a sense that like, "Whatever I decide is a credible source."
Unknown Speaker (01:18:33.903)
But Crowder doesn't wanna own that position.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.203)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.243)
And it, it's just, it's, it's fairly circular.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:38.743)
Yeah. Yeah, because the true answer
Unknown Speaker (01:18:42.363)
is,
Unknown Speaker (01:18:43.323)
"I don't know."
Unknown Speaker (01:18:44.382)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:45.203)
Like...
Unknown Speaker (01:18:45.563)
Or, "I don't care."
Unknown Speaker (01:18:46.483)
Well, yeah. I mean-
Unknown Speaker (01:18:46.842)
"It's irrelevant to what I do."
Unknown Speaker (01:18:48.302)
Exactly. Exactly. There is no point in us coming to any agreement about this, because to me,
Unknown Speaker (01:18:54.422)
before here and after here, it has no meaning to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:57.382)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:57.403)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:57.443)
"Today News Africa was a very credible source because it said what I wanted it to say."
Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.262)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.502)
And now-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.722)
"And tomorrow it will be incredible to..." Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:04.382)
In hindsight, it is incredibly, uh, credible
Unknown Speaker (01:19:07.703)
to me because this guy is a White House press..." That's the excuse-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:11.302)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:11.662)
... that they're accusing-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:12.323)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:12.722)
... uh, that is attempting to mask the-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:14.983)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:15.082)
... just like, "I pick and choose based on what I need to say-"
Unknown Speaker (01:19:17.842)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:18.342)
"... in order to defend white supremacy."
Unknown Speaker (01:19:19.922)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:20.662)
Um, but you're never gonna get him-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:22.502)
Weird.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:22.842)
... just like having that-
Unknown Speaker (01:19:24.542)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:24.863)
... um,
Unknown Speaker (01:19:26.443)
you know, A Few Good Men moments.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:28.082)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:29.063)
So, uh, at a certain point, I think that Crowder doesn't wanna play anymore.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:32.762)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:33.243)
And he starts to, uh, uh, just kind of plead the Fifth.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:37.122)
Whine like a little baby?
Unknown Speaker (01:19:38.703)
Before you decided to use our client's image, did you know if you were looking at the original image?
Unknown Speaker (01:19:45.002)
What do you mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:19:48.582)
If the image that you were looking at was the original image
Unknown Speaker (01:19:51.722)
or if it had been somebody else's edited image. If it had been
Unknown Speaker (01:19:55.262)
cropped, changed, manipulated, anything like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:58.002)
I don't recall at this time. That would have been a process with
Unknown Speaker (01:20:02.783)
staff with any image.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:05.162)
Did you know who took the original image?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:07.643)
I don't recall at this time.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:10.122)
Did you know when the photo was taken?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:12.943)
I don't recall at this time. That's why I
Unknown Speaker (01:20:16.542)
referenced the person who had
Unknown Speaker (01:20:18.162)
included that image.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:19.203)
Did you know where the photo was taken?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:21.863)
I
Unknown Speaker (01:20:23.582)
don't recall at this time.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:24.842)
Did you at least know why the photo was taken?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:30.262)
Again, I don't recall at this time.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:33.002)
"I don't recall at this time" is sort of his version of pleading the Fifth.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:36.643)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:37.002)
And you get a sense that he's just kind of like,
Unknown Speaker (01:20:39.462)
"All right. Uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:20:41.283)
I'm, I'm l- lost."
Unknown Speaker (01:20:43.063)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:43.222)
"There's nothing I can really do here." He's trying to self-sooth.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:46.762)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:47.042)
And, and trying to, trying to be like, uh, "All right, all right, all right. I'm, I'm fine. I can be cagey."
Unknown Speaker (01:20:52.462)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:52.662)
"I can, I can, uh, I can get through this."
Unknown Speaker (01:20:54.882)
"I'm not smarter."
Unknown Speaker (01:20:56.222)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:56.403)
"I've proven that,
Unknown Speaker (01:20:58.243)
so my first arrow, uh, that didn't exist is gone."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:02.422)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:02.863)
Uh, "Now I'm going to try and deny everything."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:06.143)
Yeah. "I'm gonna answer everything in a completely non-committal way that-"
Unknown Speaker (01:21:09.563)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:09.682)
"... uh, I assume no one can draw any information from, uh, because I'm weak in this moment."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:15.363)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:15.682)
"And my pretend strength and going on the offense has not worked."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:20.323)
Yeah. Yeah, which is, which is again, the wrong move.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:23.863)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:24.143)
Because for him-
Unknown Speaker (01:21:25.903)
... changing strategies is worse than sticking to a bad strategy.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:29.643)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:29.962)
'Cause if you stick to a bad strategy, at the
Unknown Speaker (01:21:32.023)
end of it, ultimately they're gonna go, "I think this is too stupid to use."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:37.663)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:37.903)
Really?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:38.603)
Well, at the, at the end of the day, if he had, at the be-
Unknown Speaker (01:21:41.983)
you know, at the beginning of this, he's saying, "I don't
Unknown Speaker (01:21:44.523)
p- personally feel that I need to check other people's reporting."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:47.983)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:48.603)
Then the answer to all of these things, like, "Did you know when this was taken?" "No."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:52.783)
"I don't know. Why would I."
Unknown Speaker (01:21:54.243)
Yeah. "I don't-"
Unknown Speaker (01:21:55.262)
"I've already established-"
Unknown Speaker (01:21:55.563)
"... I don't recall it this time" is such a way of trying to just say no.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:00.524)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:00.524)
It doesn't matter.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:01.344)
You're, you're just an idiot.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:03.823)
Yeah. At the end of this, the worst thing that can happen is that you have, uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:22:09.163)
been negligent-
Unknown Speaker (01:22:10.222)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:10.643)
... in your coverage.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:11.903)
Man.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:12.203)
And that's already pretty clearly
Unknown Speaker (01:22:14.422)
established.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:15.863)
Just
Unknown Speaker (01:22:16.563)
keep up
Unknown Speaker (01:22:17.523)
acting like you don't care.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:18.542)
Humans are weird.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:19.844)
They are. But also, some of them are dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:22.063)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:22.203)
And I think that this next clip
Unknown Speaker (01:22:25.063)
really was worrying, uh, much like a couple of the other ones we've seen.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:28.962)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:29.382)
Um, this, uh, is where, uh, Mark is trying to discuss, um,
Unknown Speaker (01:22:34.523)
if
Unknown Speaker (01:22:35.542)
this, uh, shooter was dead.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:37.783)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:37.922)
And didn't have a criminal history.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:39.262)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:39.563)
Which was reported immediately.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:41.382)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:41.682)
Uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:22:42.783)
then he couldn't have a mugshot.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:44.403)
That is, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:45.082)
'Cause he wasn't arrested for the shooting and wasn't arrested before.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:47.802)
Those are how words work.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:48.882)
Yes. And so that's a really basic syllogism.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:51.743)
It's very easy.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:52.462)
And
Unknown Speaker (01:22:53.863)
I don't think that Stephen can really understand it.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:56.983)
You knew the shooter wasn't arrested for the shooting, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:02.722)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:03.443)
Okay. And, and you knew that, from law
Unknown Speaker (01:23:06.182)
enforcement on their announcement of his name and age and details, that he had no criminal history, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:13.023)
That the shooter had no criminal history?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:14.502)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:16.262)
The shooter who was, who was killed in Allen?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:18.382)
Correct.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:19.002)
I don't re- I don't recall that at this time, that he had no criminal history.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:22.882)
W-
Unknown Speaker (01:23:23.682)
uh, would it be the normal practice of your show, when covering an
Unknown Speaker (01:23:26.122)
event like this, to keep up with the announcements from
Unknown Speaker (01:23:28.682)
DPS and the City of Allen Police, the law enforcement officials?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:32.462)
Objection, Formality.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:35.903)
I don't know at that, uh, that specific instance and time.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:38.943)
I would imagine there'd be an aggregation of sources.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:41.382)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:42.662)
(gasps) What?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:43.382)
Let me, let me ask you this. If, if you had-And, and that's where we got the footage.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:47.462)
Um, I don't know where we got the footage of the, the, uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:23:50.722)
officer who, you know, shot the shooter.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:54.323)
Sure, okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:55.863)
But again, I don't remember.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:58.502)
Assume for me that you had taken the efforts to find out
Unknown Speaker (01:24:02.182)
about the details of the shooter, right? That, that he was
Unknown Speaker (01:24:05.682)
Mauricio Garcia, 33 years of age, Dallas, Te- Texas,
Unknown Speaker (01:24:09.842)
no criminal history. If you had known that information,
Unknown Speaker (01:24:13.662)
you would've known the image that you were looking at, this mugshot, was not the shooter,
Unknown Speaker (01:24:18.342)
right?
Unknown Speaker (01:24:19.682)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:21.762)
All right. Well, let me lu- try to walk you through the logic of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:24.243)
I'm gonna go ahead and assume for me that you did.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:24.823)
Please don't speak to me like that. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:24:26.903)
And I don't know if you did, I don't know if you did or you
Unknown Speaker (01:24:29.762)
did not look at this or whatever. I'm not making that assumption. But if you did know
Unknown Speaker (01:24:33.842)
the shooter had no criminal history
Unknown Speaker (01:24:36.023)
and you knew he wasn't arrested for the shooting, you knew that mugshot wasn't a picture of the shooter,
Unknown Speaker (01:24:41.762)
right? That w- if you had known that information, you would've reached that conclusion.No.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:47.082)
Can you explain to me how a person with no criminal history and, and
Unknown Speaker (01:24:50.103)
not, no arrest for the shooting, how they would have a mugshot then?
Unknown Speaker (01:24:54.162)
You, you are the one who said if, if, we are under the assumption that it's a mugshot.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:59.863)
I know that at that moment-
Unknown Speaker (01:25:00.342)
Right, that's what we've been trying to prove to you.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:02.122)
You just mentioned Mauricio Garcia. I just wanna make sure I'm understanding. Mauricio,
Unknown Speaker (01:25:03.563)
because obviously it's, it's, uh, a little complicated. Um.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:07.382)
Is it?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:07.762)
You just mentioned Mauricio Garcia.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:09.403)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:09.542)
33 years old.
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Mm-hmm.
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Right? Dallas, Texas area.
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Uh, Hispanic.
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That that information
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is, is accurate, to my understanding.
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Yes. All that's accurate.
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Okay.
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And the i- th- the image was not?
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Right. The image is Mauricio Garcia, 36 years old in Dallas. Right, I understand that.
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Okay.
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What, what I'm asking you is something a little different, is that if you
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knew, if the information you were being reported is, "Hey, this mugshot is the shooter." But
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if you had known, if you had known he had no criminal history and wasn't arrested for the shooting,
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you should have concluded based on that information that that's not the shooter.
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Is that fair?
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No, I disagree.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:53.483)
Okay. Again, can you try to explain to me how somebody who has no criminal history
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and was not arrested for the shooting, how they would have a booking photograph?
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I was reporting on the reported information that include
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the other information, which we both just agreed was accurate, and an image.
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I don't remember the rest of the details.
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I, I'm not asking any of that though. All right? I'm asking a very simple question.
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Mm-hmm.
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Is if you had known, in fact, let's go ahead and take this completely away
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from the Allen shooting and treat this as a hypothetical. All right?
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You have an individual you're trying to identify and match with a picture.
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All right? And you have two pieces of information. On one, you have somebody reporting,
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"Hey, this mugshot is the shooter." And then the other piece of information you have
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is that person has no criminal history and that person was not arrested for the event.
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If you know those two pieces of information, you should know
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that the first piece of information, that mugshot, is not the shooter, right?
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It's a, it's a hypothetical question. I don't know that the-
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What?
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... researchers at that moment in time knew that.
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I don't know that that was included in the original reporting, and it's why we made sure to list
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the original reporting and report it on their recording.
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Again-
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I don't know that that informa- I don't know that that information was known.
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I, I don't, I, I'm-
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That's the truth.
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... sitting here, I'm telling you right now, I don't think you or your people did know that. I don't think so.
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I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I have positions about whether I think you should've known that.
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But what I'm asking is, if you did know,
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if you did know the shooter had no criminal
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history, and you did know that the shooter was not arrested at the scene, then you would
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have known that a mugshot was not the shooter, or at least would have raised
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serious doubts about whether that was the correct image.
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Right?
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If one did know that there was no criminal history-
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Mm-hmm.
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... if one knew that there had never been any type of image taken in a police prince- precinct
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or legal, um,
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type situation or context, if one knew that definitively
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and then knew that that was definitively a mugshot, then that would be
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a reasonable assumption, I believe, if it met those prerequisites that you said.
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Oof. So, I'm super conflicted about that exchange,
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because there's a solid argument that Crowder is doing a terrible job at being evasive.
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Yeah.
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But there's an equally compelling argument that he's just legit
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stupid and doesn't understand basic
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rules of inference. I have a strong suspicion that Crowder has existed for
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so long in a context that's highly curated and controlled, to the point where he doesn't really
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have any critical thinking skills at the ready, but he thinks he does.
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Yeah.
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His brain is looking for dunks and possible
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gotcha moments that he thinks are like
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cheat codes to making an argument, because that works in every other scenario in his life.
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Yep.
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It
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takes five minutes of incoherent flailing for him to finally just accept the basic premise
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that if the shooter had no criminal history and was killed in the
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shooting, then there wouldn't be a mugshot of the shooter. It's very
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basic deduction, but Stephen has to argue like this because
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in this moment, he can't think of a good reason why he and his whole staff of reporters
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wouldn't have had this thought. He knows the answer to
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why they didn't have this thought is because they didn't have any thoughts.
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The goal was to refute the idea that the shooter was a white supremacist, and this
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mugshot allowed them to write that narrative.
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There was no moment of caution or thinking, "Is it possible this is wrong?" Because
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that's not the business they're in.
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This line of questioning is really illuminating, because I believe that Crowder understands that
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it's pretty damning that no one put two and two together about the mugshot.
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I believe that he knows that this kind of reveals how little he and his staff care about getting stories right
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when they're convenient for their fun bigot storylines.
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I think he has some awareness of that, and he's trying to avoid that-
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Yeah.
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... but he's too dumb to know how...And he thinks he k- he thinks he's coming up with like,
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"Aha, well, if this is true then this is true." And then-
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Yeah.
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... it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You're wrong.
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Yeah. I think... Okay, two things. Uh, on my billboard, if I become a lawyer-
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Mm-hmm.
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... uh, it's, if we're pullin' teeth, I'm pullin' teeth. That's my, that's my slogan.
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Okay.
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Jordan, uh,
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DDS at law.
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Well, but here's the-
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(laughs)
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Here's the problem. I think that you... For someone like Steven-
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Yeah.
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... if you're gonna get him as a client-
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Yeah.
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... you're gonna need to say, "If I'm pulling teeth," qu- uh, parentheses, "metaphorical-"
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Sure.
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... "then I'm pulling teeth," parentheses-
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Literal.
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... "legal." Uh, "literal." Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:21.076)
Uh, with Steven, yes, it would have to be very well explained.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:23.935)
Yeah, you need to spell it all out.
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The subtlety would be lost upon him.
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Yeah.
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It's a double entendre. But, um...
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(laughs) I, th- that... Because here's the thing that I agree with you on, and I kind of think
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that this is almost a base animalistic instinct
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to, to evade there, is that he doesn't know why, but like,
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like a bunny aware somewhere b- because of the scent on the
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wind, you know, his hackles are raised and he's like, "This is a bad question for me to answer honestly."
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Mm-hmm.
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Whether or not he knows why is a completely different question.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I will need to descend into games-
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Yeah, absolutely.
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... about this.
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I can feel the, the, like, hackles raised. There's a predator nearby. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:07.574)
Mm-hmm. Well, that's... Maybe... It's interesting you put it that way, 'cause maybe what it is, um, is that
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he doesn't understand logic and structure-
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Yeah.
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... uh, inference,
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uh-
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The whole gamut.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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But he knows what it looks like.
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Right.
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And so he sees what's going on here as an if/then statement, and he doesn't know how to navigate it.
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Right.
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But he knows that he's, like, about to get stuck in a logic thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:35.715)
Yeah.
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And so he has to descend into, like, these
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weird games to try and get himself out of it, and he doesn't realize that that doesn't work. So, but it
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does in the change-my-mind debates.
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Right.
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It does on your show.
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'Cause you can just leave or yell.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:47.814)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:48.175)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:48.654)
Uh, that, that's... The predator is concrete thinking and logic.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:53.194)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Reality.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:54.215)
Yeah.
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As always, the greatest of predators.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So he starts to flail a bit, um, because, uh, he seems to have a view that the media was covering up
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that, uh, the shooter was Hispanic.
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He does believe that.
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He does seem to believe that.
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Right.
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Uh, but no one was.
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Right.
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And so
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it's tough. Uh, h- he just sort of is like, "Ah, it feels like they were."
Unknown Speaker (01:32:21.055)
I wanna ask you about something you said during the show. Um,
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you had kinda started your, your segment there about the shooter's identity
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by saying, "Who the shooter was, a lot of what the
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media is telling you is bullshit." You remember saying that?
Unknown Speaker (01:32:38.114)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:38.755)
Okay.
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She showed it to me.
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Um,
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what, what was, what was bullshit about it?
Unknown Speaker (01:32:45.515)
Well, if I recall in the context of that, when we
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ran clips or segments to this effect was
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the white supremacist mass shooter
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and, uh, then of course the aggressive push for gun control, and that the media had initially just covered it
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as a white supremacist mass shooter, uh,
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and then didn't go back to it,
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which was a pattern.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:05.614)
You mean didn't... What do you mean, didn't go back to it? What does that mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:33:08.654)
Didn't, uh, didn't go back to the story
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that they said they would be reporting on once new information had come out
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and instead pivoted to, you know, the gun control measures.
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Um, and I believe that we were pointing out at that point that the, uh, the Black officer
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used what would be described as
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an assault weapon.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:27.795)
So, wait, are you saying that they abandoned the idea that the shooter was a white supremacist?
Unknown Speaker (01:33:33.734)
I'm saying that the coverage
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significantly less afterward.
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After what?
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After the name
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and, uh, information on the shooter was available.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:45.375)
Well, the, the name was available
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well before you did your broadcast. Right?
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Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:50.755)
Like, the media... In other words, when the media was calling
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this person a white supremacist, this narrative that they allegedly abandoned, um,
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i- it was known that the shooter was a Hispanic man.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:03.335)
Well, I didn't say they allegedly abandoned
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that.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:07.194)
Okay. I'm-
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I'm sorry?
Unknown Speaker (01:34:08.274)
I'm getting really confused by some of your answers today-
Unknown Speaker (01:34:10.234)
Hey!
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... and I apologize for that.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:11.414)
Okay.
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Because what I believe that I had heard
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is that they shifted the story away from this white supremacy stuff once new information came out. They-
Unknown Speaker (01:34:20.614)
No, they shift-
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They-
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They shifted away from
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the wall-to-wall coverage altogether.
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Wall-to-wall coverage of the shooting or the coverage that he was a white supremacist?
Unknown Speaker (01:34:30.255)
Of, of the event altogether. Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:32.555)
Okay. So you're, so it's your-
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And so our initial, initial coverage was white supremacist mass shooting.
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Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:37.274)
Um, and then when the story was
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Hispanic male mass shooter
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taken out by a Black officer, um, with, I believe, an AR-15 or something equivalent, the story was
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not covered with the same zeal, and I believe that's the point that we were addressing.
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Contextually.
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I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm not understanding, though. From, from
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the day of the shooting, well, or at least the day after, at least since May 7th,
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we all knew it was a Hispanic mass shooter,
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right?
Unknown Speaker (01:35:05.555)
I, I, I believe you're correct. The day after, yes.
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And so when the media was pushing the story about that
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law enforcement sources were saying that he was a white supremacist,
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they did that knowing he was Hispanic.
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Not initially.
Unknown Speaker (01:35:22.814)
I, I don't understand, Mr. Crowder. We knew his name was-
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Because he still wasn't Hispanic the day out.
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Hold on, let him talk.
Unknown Speaker (01:35:28.774)
We knew on May 7th, before-
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So she can speak.
Unknown Speaker (01:35:31.975)
A, a full day before your reporting,
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the whole world knew that this was Mauricio Garcia, a Hispanic mass shooter, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:35:40.475)
That's what we reported that day, yes. The, I beli- I, I'm,
Unknown Speaker (01:35:42.734)
I'm going on, I believe your memory is correct. It was the day after the shooting that that information-
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Right.
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... came out. Right? Yes.
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Right. And then the day after that is when you did your reporting.
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Right.
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So-
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So, we already knew he was-
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the time I'm being-
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We already knew he was Hispanic.
Unknown Speaker (01:35:58.715)
That, that didn't change. Nothing changed-
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I-
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... in terms of his identity.
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I, I, I did because
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I believe the information became available, um,
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after I'd... I believe I c- I believe what you just shown me was a Monday.
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I'll take your word for it.
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I think that was the clip that you, you, you had just shown. Um,
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so if it would've been available during the weekend, but not when the shooting had just taken place.
Unknown Speaker (01:36:23.135)
So, initially it was simply white supremacist mass shooting. And that was, uh, covered
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with
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great enthusiasm, and then
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the day after, as you m- as, uh, I believe your recrec-
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le- recollection is correct, Hispanic male, it wasn't covered
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with the same, uh, extensive
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coverage.
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So, this is nuts.
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That is nuts.
Unknown Speaker (01:36:45.914)
Um, this is, this is b- a really bizarre thing where
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Crowder is talking about his feelings, but he's trying to make it seem like he's talking about the media.
Unknown Speaker (01:36:56.015)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:36:56.715)
Um, because the, you know, a- a lot of the revelations about the Nazi tattoos and, and the
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right-wing death squad and the social media accounts that the shooter had
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was based on the reporting of his name.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:09.534)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:09.595)
That's how people found the social media.
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Yeah.
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So, there was not a time where this wasn't... Like,
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both pieces in- of information weren't both being discussed.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:18.935)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:19.215)
So, this idea that, like, "Oh, it was a white supremacist shooter, and then as soon as we
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found out it was a person named Mauricio Garcia, uh, and by extension we know that it is a Hispanic person-"
Unknown Speaker (01:37:30.414)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:30.654)
... uh, then they're like, "Oh, we can't use this. Everyone already knows that it's a Hispanic person."
Unknown Speaker (01:37:35.854)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:36.234)
That is his brain.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:38.654)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:38.755)
That's Steven's brain.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:39.914)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:39.935)
He wrote that story in his brain.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:41.975)
Yeah, you made that whole thing up, didn't you?
Unknown Speaker (01:37:43.595)
Yes. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:37:44.435)
Made that whole thing up, didn't you?
Unknown Speaker (01:37:45.875)
And it's his defense.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:47.055)
Yup, yup. Pretend.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:49.314)
Don't do this. If you're in a deposition, don't start expounding on your elaborate-
Unknown Speaker (01:37:55.395)
I mean-
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... unprovable theories about how the media hates white people.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:59.914)
You're not going to be able to defend this.
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I- I ge- uh,
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I genuinely don't understand.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:06.335)
Hmm.
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Beyond... Like, the thought that I had was, when I was in high school, uh, I had a, uh, English teacher
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who every year would give us, like at- at some random point in time, he would give us one
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test on these literary terms that were, that were very, very specific, and their use is very, very specific.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:27.774)
And you had to define them and then use them correctly, right? And I feel like
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that needs to be done with Crowder before we begin this thing, just as like a,
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"What do you understand to begin with?"
Unknown Speaker (01:38:41.935)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:42.216)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (01:38:42.795)
Yeah. Um-
Unknown Speaker (01:38:43.515)
'Cause I don't know what you understand now.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:46.194)
No. No.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:46.795)
I'm not clearer on your ability to understand anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:50.795)
The- the ability to engage with ideas, uh,
Unknown Speaker (01:38:53.614)
in a- in a way that makes sense, an ability to understand words, definitions-
Unknown Speaker (01:38:58.435)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:58.775)
... uh, is be- it- it's being illustrated that he has no competence-
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None.
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... in that.
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Yeah.
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And it does seem to be, like... (sighs) When you... There's a, there's a element of it that is evasiveness.
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Sure.
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That is like, "I'm trying not to take responsibility for things."
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Sure. Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:15.615)
"And so I'm, I don't know at this time, I don't remember at this time."
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Right.
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If he was using entirely evasive things to try and just walk through this, um,
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uh, deposition, it would make sense.
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Yeah.
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But he's doing, like, "I think the media hates white people." Like,
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why are you doing-
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What are you doing?
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You- you have to be stupid if you think that it's impo-
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What are you doing?
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Like, this is a good defense for you to bring up-
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What are you doing?
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... in this setting. It- it can't just be evasiveness. He
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has to... There- there is an overconfidence and a stupidity mixed in here-
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Yep.
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... that is just shocking.
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Yeah. Yeah, because- because the trap of the deposition
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is, ultimately, neither of us are going to tell the truth at the end of this. Nobody is going to just say,
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"You made it up because it helps you with your agenda."
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Yeah.
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That's just not gonna happen, right?
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No.
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So because the truth will never be spoken, there are plenty of evasive things you can do if you have prepared
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(laughs) in advance for what the questions are going to be.
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Well, I think that if you're a- if you're someone like Crowder in the business that he's in-
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Yeah.
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... uh, you know that your audience is not gonna be swayed by this deposition.
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No.
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They're already primed to believe whatever y- you say about it.
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Totally.
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So who gives a shit? It's not w-
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Which is a part of the w- this is why we're here!
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It's not a threat to you at all. So, like, the
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name of the game, it seems to me, should be, don't give up more information.
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No own goals.
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Don't a- don't provide things that allow for follow-up questions that get off the point.
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Totally.
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Just, you know, like, take the basest amount of responsibility and
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say, "I don't know about a bunch of shit," and just go home.
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Crazy.
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Don't bring up your fucking weird white identity conspiracies about the media.
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Like, it's not... It- it's d- it's pointless.
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Yeah. Yeah, it feels like he thinks that a smart person in this situation would win the deposition.
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Right, and prove that The New York Times hates white people.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:15.475)
Exactly. As opposed to what a smart person would- would do, which is, like,
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have a 10, 15-minute deposition where they said, "Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no," and then left.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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Crazy.
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Uh, but he- he's not that guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:26.454)
Nope. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:41:27.154)
Let's walk through the chronology. All right, we have the shooting on May
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6th. And on May 6th, we don't know anything about the shooter.
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There's no information on who the shooter
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was, his identity, his motivations, anything. Do you agree with that?
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I-
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I don't know if that's correct, and I don't know that the media was covering it that way.
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I believe they were covering it as a white supremacist immediately.
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All right. I would, I would... I think
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if you back and you look at these events, what you're gonna find happened
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is that The New York Times published, from law enforcement sources, saying that Mauricio Garcia
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had social media that had neo-Nazi ideation, he had tattoos, and that they were looking at a social media
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site. Right? That's where all this comes from, right, is this New York Times report.
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And on that day, as that's being reported, it's being reported that the guy's name is Mauricio Garcia.
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So what I'm trying to understand is, what new information
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came to light
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that you say made the media change the narrative of its story?
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I would imagine that it's a Hispanic male
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being labeled a white supremacist,
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and that was why they didn't cover it nearly as extensively
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Let me- let me just make sure I have you correct. Do you think that the media
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was saying, that mainstream media outlets were saying,
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that the shooter was a- a white supremacist shooter, and they did that
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without saying that he was Hispanic or giving his name?
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I believe that they were reporting, my recollection is, reportedly, he was a white supremacist, and
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as it was circulating that this was a Hispanic male, the story was not being covered with the same-
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the same zeal. Yeah.
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Now, again, I'm going back to the idea of, do you believe
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that there were reports identifying the shooter as a white supremacist
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that also did not include his name and a clue to his i- to his ethnic identity?
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There- there could've been.
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I- I don't recall exactly. I'm going by your timeline.
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Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right.
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But I- I- I do remember at that point in time, it was labeled the
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greatest domestic terror threat, white supremacy, and
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that was something in the media quite a bit.
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So, what you have to understand is that
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media and all this that he's talking about includes dumb shitheads yelling-
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Yep.
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... on social media.
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Yep.
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So, a lot of that informs what he believes the conversation in the press was around this time.
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Right.
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And it is not. It is not accurate. Mark is laying out for him, like, "This
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is where these articles were and when it published, this is the timeline.
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I know this because I prepared for this deposition and you didn't."
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That was the idea.
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"Dipshit."
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Yeah.
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So, like, he- he- Steven's trying to struggle with this, but if you really listen to what he's saying,
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this is
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the code.
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Yep.
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I will explain this fully.
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Yep.
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When the news broke that it was someone
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allegedly who had white supremacist
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leanings, Steven was defensive, and he didn't like that it made him feel bad.
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He felt relief
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when he saw a picture of someone that he identified as Hispanic, and that's the whole story.
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Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:39.494)
He was trying to be defensive about white supremacists that he identifies with-
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Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:44.755)
... on some level, um, and then, uh,
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the- the media stopped covering it so much
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because he didn't feel like, oh, this is so important anymore because we have this picture of this guy.
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Yep.
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(laughs) That's all that's going on.
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Yep.
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He's very stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:59.395)
Yeah. I mean, it is, it is that, it is that simple.
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Yep.
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It is like, oh, pleasurable impulse, unpleasurable impulse, you respond.
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Yeah.
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That is, that is it. You're a rat looking for cheese.
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Yeah.
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You are not capable of more.
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He's basically doing a "They don't report on Black criminals"-
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Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:20.234)
... uh, line in- in this deposition. And you r- uh, it's unwise to do this.
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Yeah.
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Because
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it's not relevant, necessarily, to the case-
Unknown Speaker (01:45:29.675)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:29.994)
... of you reporting on the wrong, uh, person, uh, the wrong mugshot.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:34.494)
Yeah.
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And
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I think it just opens up avenues that, I guess if Mark wants to ask questions,
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you're going to look really stupid and really racist. So, that's what ends up happening.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:45.454)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:45.954)
Because we loop back now to something that was
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obviously a dangling thread from earlier, which is that, on Crowder's show, he said
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that this person had a very Hispanic-looking face.
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Yes.
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And I- I think it was probably conspicuous that we didn't talk about it then.
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We didn't.
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And the reason is because it comes up again-
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Uh-oh.
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... and-
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This is, this is, this ain't good.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:07.715)
Oh, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:08.194)
You said that... You said that my client has a very Hispanic-looking face.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:14.635)
Very is an interesting word.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:16.574)
What does that mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:46:17.914)
It means exactly what I said.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:21.675)
I... Can you explain it to me? I'm confused as to what that means.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:25.135)
You're confused as to what a Hispanic person looks like?
Unknown Speaker (01:46:27.935)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:28.414)
Yeah. Is there anybody Hispanic on this Zoom call right now?
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Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:34.395)
Well, I see a lot of boxes.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:36.375)
Well, you got some, you got some pictures in front of you. You got
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gallery view. Is there any Hispanics on the call right now?
Unknown Speaker (01:46:40.735)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:42.256)
Uh, uh, w- not one that would, uh, jump out to me as a very clearly Hispanic
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male face.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:49.256)
All right, so h- help me understand what that is, 'cause there is a Hispanic on this call.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:54.314)
Um-
Unknown Speaker (01:46:54.595)
(sighs)
Unknown Speaker (01:46:55.154)
... what is a very Hispanic-looking face?
Unknown Speaker (01:46:58.595)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:59.916)
In the context of white supremacists, people generally think of white people.
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And this was clearly a Hispanic male.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:10.935)
Are you treating me like I'm dumb?
Unknown Speaker (01:47:12.135)
Are you saying that Hispanic people are not white? That's what you're saying.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:14.755)
I'm saying they aren't
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typically white supremacists.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:18.954)
(laughs) Where'd you get that idea?
Unknown Speaker (01:47:22.154)
That's... You believe that Hispanic people
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aren't white s-... There are no white supremacist Hispanic people?
Unknown Speaker (01:47:26.335)
I didn't say no, I said
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"typically."
Unknown Speaker (01:47:30.715)
Right. (laughs) That can... That means that there are... That does exist. If you say,
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if you say, "Yeah, typically," that
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comes with a but, doesn't it? "But there are Hispanic white supremacists."
Unknown Speaker (01:47:43.154)
Right?
Unknown Speaker (01:47:43.475)
If you say there are some.
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I'm asking you.
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Did you know that?
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I would imagine that people who
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are not particularly white
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don't make great white supremacists.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:57.274)
Hmm. That's an interesting question. So, let's, let's-
Unknown Speaker (01:48:00.234)
That wasn't a question.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:01.795)
Oh, man.
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So, this is a unnecessary thing for Crowder to be getting into. (laughs) This
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is not, this is not necessary. And I do
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think it, it's interesting that, that Mark doesn't just beg, "Have you met Nick Fuentes?"
Unknown Speaker (01:48:17.435)
Yeah.
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"Do you know him? 'Cause he's a guy who's in your media space."
Unknown Speaker (01:48:21.215)
Yeah.
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Um,
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but, so
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this is, uh, alarming.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:27.414)
Yes.
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Because I think that it means that Steven really doesn't understand what Hispanic means.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:33.595)
Not even close.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:34.555)
And he has decided, like, "I can visually pick out Hispanic people-"
Unknown Speaker (01:48:40.835)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:41.215)
... and they're not white. They're not white enough."
Unknown Speaker (01:48:43.914)
Yep.
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He is, he has a definition of whiteness
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that he is superimposing on white supremacists
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and people who would have, you know, white identity beliefs, which is wild.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:54.715)
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I mean, it's hard not to think the man
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might as well have said, "Pale is the way that I know."
Unknown Speaker (01:49:02.274)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:03.034)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:03.595)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:03.654)
Yep, yep, yep.
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I have a, a skin check that I do. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:49:06.475)
I mean, it is, it is wild. It is wild-
Unknown Speaker (01:49:09.675)
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
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... whenever you hear them actually say what they think.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:12.354)
A- and it's so unnecessary. In the context of this deposition-
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Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:16.795)
... there's no reason why Crowder should be getting into any of this.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:19.454)
No. And, and the disdain for which he uses other... Like,
Unknown Speaker (01:49:23.954)
"Ugh, of course you know what I mean." Like,
Unknown Speaker (01:49:26.694)
buddy, you need to understand a lot more (laughs) before we get to, "No, I don't know what you mean."
Unknown Speaker (01:49:32.595)
But that's, that's why I think this is more stupid than-
Unknown Speaker (01:49:36.335)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:36.354)
... craft or, or, or, or-
Unknown Speaker (01:49:37.595)
Totally. No, you're right.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:38.675)
... uh, evasiveness.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:39.895)
Yeah.
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Like, he is very confident in his definition that he's using, which is wrong.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:45.375)
And I think it's just 'cause he's dumb, and that-
Unknown Speaker (01:49:47.774)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:47.774)
... he doesn't have people around him who have checked any of these, uh, these
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beliefs.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:53.055)
I mean, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:54.234)
So, Mark tries to, and he tries to explain that the broad category of Hispanic includes
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a lot of different groups of people.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:03.454)
Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:03.715)
Some of them identify as white, and some i- identify not as white.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:08.395)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:08.854)
And, uh,
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y-
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this
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is
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very hard, because Crowder does not accept or understand really any of this.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:18.354)
Okay, s- Crowder, we're gonna start with colonialism.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:21.555)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:21.675)
Now, Spain... Now, do you... And l- let me try and get this.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:25.475)
The people that you are going to refer to exclusively as Hispanic only speak this language for one reason!
Unknown Speaker (01:50:33.354)
Yeah. He, he's, um...
Unknown Speaker (01:50:35.595)
It's... This is a struggle.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:36.875)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:38.135)
I take it you know... Y- y- like, in your life, you've known some Hispanic people,
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and some of them might have names like Robert,
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and some of them might have names like Roberto. You understand what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:50:48.494)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:48.954)
Very well.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:49.555)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:50.015)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:50:50.034)
And you understand what I mean by assimilationist, that there is, there is a,
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a part of Hispanic culture
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that has
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at- has attempted to be assimilationist, right? And adopt into
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white American culture. You know that exists?
Unknown Speaker (01:51:05.954)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:06.375)
I understand that it exists with certain-
Unknown Speaker (01:51:08.095)
And you under-... You understand that there is also another separate part of Hispanic culture
Unknown Speaker (01:51:12.494)
which is non-assimilationist, which rejects an Anglo self-identity, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:51:17.975)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:18.954)
And you understand that
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some people who are Hispanic identify as white, whereas other people in our culture
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do not consider them white. You understand that?
Unknown Speaker (01:51:28.854)
Are you saying that some people identify as white and other people don't identi-... Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:34.555)
Consider themselves
Unknown Speaker (01:51:35.875)
white.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:35.935)
Yes, yes. Yes, I understand-
Unknown Speaker (01:51:36.935)
How we-
Unknown Speaker (01:51:37.234)
Well, I understand white supremacy very well, but they would not include
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any of the aforementioned groups amongst them.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:42.335)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:44.314)
They would not allow it, which is why it's a repugnant ideology.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:47.494)
Mm.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:48.614)
Right. So, what I'm saying is,
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you already knew when broadcasting this show
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that not only do some Hispanics identify as
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white... Let's, let's go back. When I talk about, like, cultural litigation, for instance,
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the real shooter... Let's talk about the real
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33-year-old, Mauricio Garcia, who committed this crime. All right?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:13.515)
That person
Unknown Speaker (01:52:14.795)
very well might consider themselves white, or considered, before their death.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:19.454)
But you didn't consider them white, correct?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:21.914)
Objection, Form.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:25.515)
If...
Unknown Speaker (01:52:27.935)
Would I consider a Hispanic-looking male white?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:32.074)
No, I would consider him a Hispanic male.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:33.675)
Do you know what the real shooter looks like?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:38.314)
What the real shooter looks like?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:39.994)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:41.274)
It is my understanding that he's a Hispanic male.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:43.734)
Well, I'm asking you, does he have a very Hispanic-looking face?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:48.295)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:52:50.395)
Objection, Form. Called it. I was there. I knew it.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:53.614)
He looks Hispanic, yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:54.895)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (01:52:55.515)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:58.314)
You understood when doing your broadcast that not only do some Hispanics identify as
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white, some identify as neo-Nazis and white supremacists. You knew that, right?
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No.
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You didn't know that? That was n-... That was new information to you?
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I believe, if you watched the show, it was comical information.
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You found it funny
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that a Hispanic person, in an attempt to litigate their own whiteness, might associate with white
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supremacy and white supremacist ideas?
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You thought that was funny?
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I
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find it comical that someone who would not be accepted amongst racist white supremacists
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in any way, shape, or form
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would identify with them.
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You really in touch with how racist white supremacists might view
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certain people? Is that something you know a lot about?
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Objection, Form.
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A-
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a- are you asking me personally? Or are you asking me-
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Yeah. Yeah.
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... about... getting at my-
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Like, I don't know how you... Look, I know there are
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Hispanic white supremacists. That's a thing
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that exists, right? I know that. I know there are neo-Nazi white
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supremacists who have Hispanic backgrounds, right? And I, I think what you're saying is that...... that's
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actually not possible because no white supremacists would ever associate.
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Objection, form.
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Um, so I guess what I'm getting at is-
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As a gen- You're, you're correct. As a general rule, white supremacists tend to be quite racist.
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Right. I get that. And Hispanic white supremacists also tend to be quite racist, don't they?
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Objection, form.
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I know that Hispanic people can be
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racist as anyone can be racist.
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I'm asking you specifically though about Hispanic white
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supremacists. They can be very, very racist, right?
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Objection, form.
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I would imagine if a Hispanic person
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identifies as a white supremacist, that they would be quite racist.
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I think we can agree there.
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So let's just, uh,
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drop it at that.
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Hm. (laughs)
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We're not going, we're not gonna figure out any other truths here.
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Um, this guy, uh, doesn't know shit. (laughs) It's, it's, it's, it's, um, it's very strange, uh,
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this just entire li- uh, he seems ignorant of everything.
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Yeah.
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He seems just completely unequipped to even discuss this subject in a meaningful way.
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I would no- I would not
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read a book at the fifth grade level with him.
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Mm-hmm.
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I don't believe he's capable of, of understanding it.
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I, I'm not, I'm not confident he grasps concepts like, uh, ethnicity-
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Period.
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... race, uh...
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No. History.
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I, I don't think he understands what white supremacy is-
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Geography. (laughs)
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... when you, when you, when you talk about it in a meaningful, serious way.
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Yep.
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I, I think that he's equipped to, uh, put on costumes and, uh, maybe do publicity stunts
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here and there, get punched by a union worker. Like, that's, that's about all I trust him with.
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Yeah.
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I- any kind of handling of information, he has shown himself to just not be up to the task.
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Yeah. I believe that he would be capable of eating worms for a small amount of money.
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That is what I would trust him with.
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Do... Would you trust him to figure out new ways to eat fried worms?
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Absolutely not.
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Okay.
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No.
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So that, was that at a fifth grade level, that book?
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Creativity, creativity, not gonna happen from him.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So,
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uh, he, uh, i- is... There's an issue where it's like I don't define this person as white.
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Right.
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Um, and so therefore they are not.
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Right. Could you c- stop right there.
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You shouldn't be defining anyone as anything. All right. We'll continue. Next question.
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Mm-hmm. It...
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That's
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something that I, I think is, uh, very irrelevant to the case, uh-
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(laughs)
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... for the most part. Um, but Mark has elicited, uh, in a way that Crowder should be very uncomfortable with.
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Yeah.
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Like, this illustration is bad.
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So, another thing that's illustrated here in this next clip is, uh, that the media
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did not lie about the shooter at all.
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Ooh, that's gonna be a struggle.
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And Steven's whole thing is, like, we're covering the media's lies-
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Right.
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... about the shooter.
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Right.
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And he can't think of anything-
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Ooh.
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... that was actually a lie.
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The idea here was you had information on this shooting
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and you were gonna show the lies of the mainstream media.
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But when it comes to
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the identity of the shooter,
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you were incorrect about that. The media wasn't lying, right?
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Hm. All the other information was correct, uh,
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as you've listed, as far as the age, the name, the person, and uh, yeah, the, the image
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was incorrectly sourced from other reporters before us, which is why we stip-
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All right, I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about what you did.
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I'm talking when it comes to the shooter's identity, the media didn't lie. The mainstream media
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outlets that you identified, they didn't lie.
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Well, they're s-
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Objection, form.
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I believe, I believe they were misleading, yeah.
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In what way were they misleading?
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In saying white supremacist and then abandoning the story, uh,
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once they realized that the person was Hispanic.
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All right.
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Even if you may say so, but the media decided that it wasn't a story they wanted to cover as much.
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All right.
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I mean, I think we can look at-
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Because the media probably has an idea of what a white supremacist looks like, I would imagine.
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Right. Well, I wanna... (laughs)
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Right, and he didn't look like my client, did he?
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Objection, form.
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A white supremacist wouldn't look
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like someone who looks Hispanic, generally speaking.
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Right, and I'm talking about, I'm talking about the actual shooter.
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And I know that you're hesitant to call him a neo-Nazi
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shooter, but I'm gonna call a chair a chair. He's a neo-Nazi shooter, right? And that neo-Nazi,
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he doesn't look like my client.
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Objection, form.
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Mauricio Garcia, the neo-Nazi shooter?
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Right.
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Doesn't look like my client.
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Objection, form.
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I, I, I don't recall how much they look alike.
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Okay.
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And we're gonna... Again, it's a little confusing 'cause there's two Mauricio Garcias.
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So confusing.
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All right. The media was accurate
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that the shooter was Mauricio Garcia, the mainstream media
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outlets that you cited, they were accurate about that, right?
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Yes.
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They, they were accurate that he was 33 years old.
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That's my understanding.
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They were accurate that he had neo-Nazi, multiple neo-Nazi tattoos on his body.
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That's my understanding.
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They were right that he had a vest that was for a right wing death squad, correct?
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I don't recall that, but if you say so.
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They were correct that he had a social media presence where he expressed neo-Nazi views.
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I don't recall that, but if you say so.
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Okay.
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I'm just trying to figure out what, what they might have said about the
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shooter's identity, if anything, that was bullshit.
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Yeah. Well, the presenta- as you said, the shooting happened, I believe, on the 6th.
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Mm-hmm.
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And the 7th.
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Right.
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Is when the information came out.
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Correct.
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It's my understanding that the media was running with the narrative of white supremacists before the 7th.
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Okay.
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And certainly running with the narrative that white supremacy is the greatest domestic terror threat, uh,
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in the United States. And certainly pushing the narrative of gun control, and so the bullshit there is
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because a Black officer, who if my recollection is correct, was either off duty
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or responding to a call at ch- chance, shot the man
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with his own
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firearm that the same media said would need to be controlled to prevent mass shootings.
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That was-
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That has, that has nothing to do with who the shooter was.
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But that's the, you asked what the media was presenting that I believed was
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bullshit.
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No, actually I, what I asked you was, when it comes to the reporting on the
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shooter's identity, when you said who the shooter was,
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a lot of what the media is telling you is bullshit. What were they telling you that was
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bullshit about who the shooter was?
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Objection, form.
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Again, I... You showed a brief clip. I believe the entire show was
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devoted to the narrative and clips from the media and what they were presenting
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and why it was misleading. As far as the shooter, as far as the shooter on the 7th-
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Mm-hmm.
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... uh, if the articles that you bring up are
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accurate, then, uh, it seems they got the name and age, uh, correct.
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I
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mean, they got everything correct, right? What didn't they get correct?
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Well, again, they were misleading in the other information surrounding it.
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Wh- about who the shooter was?
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No, I'm not tell- You, you asked me what I believe was bullshit from the media.
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Again, I'm gonna tell you again-
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Okay.
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... what I'm asking you, is when you said
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who the shooter was, a lot of what the media is telling you is bullshit. When it comes to who the shooter was,
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there was nothing that was bullshit, was there?
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N- uh, I don't know about their, again, initial reporting, which would've been the 6th...
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S-
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o-
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uh, Crowder is desperately trying to cling onto what was bullshit was this guy looks Hispanic.
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Yeah.
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He looks not white to me. This picture that I found justifies
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me being defensive about, about white supremacy, white identity-
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Yeah.
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... uh,... shit.
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Yeah.
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Like, that's what the media wasn't reporting. The media wasn't alleviating my
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white victimhood grievance feelings-
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Right.
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... in a way that I felt sufficient about." That's what he's saying- (laughs)
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Right.
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... essentially.
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Right, right, right.
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There was nothing that was bullshit.
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The media was reporting that his name was Mauricio Garcia. The
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m- media was not ignoring or hiding the fact that he was a Hispanic male.
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Right.
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It's just that Steven Crowder saw a picture that, to him, slotted into non-white.
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Yeah.
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(laughs) And that's what he felt the media wasn't covering.
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Yeah. Yeah, 'cause when-
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Crazy.
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'Cause when he asks
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who the shooter was, you and I and, and Mark and, uh, people who understand words,
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r- understand he's talking about who the shooter, the specific individual-
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The actual.
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... that the shooter was-
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Yeah.
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... uh,
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i- in the act of being at the time.
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Mm-hmm.
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Right? Whereas what Steven Crowder is understanding who the shooter was to mean is a
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more abstract in the sense of like, the shooter was not a true Scotsman-
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Yes.
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... because the shooter shot.
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A million percent.
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Right? It is, it is essentially like, the media was lying because the media
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wasn't telling you that actually white nationalists are nice-
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Mm-hmm.
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... and this guy is an aberration, and so thus can't even be called a white nationalist-
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Right.
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... because he's bad.
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Every shooting should essentially be covered, uh, by, uh,
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saying white people are cool.
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It should start with white people and guns are cool.
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(laughs) Yes.
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White people and guns are great and should be the most important things in the conversation-
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Because-
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... at all times.
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Because if the media doesn't clarify those things-
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Right.
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... explicitly and point the finger somewhere else-
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Right.
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... then what they're doing is trying to push this agenda.
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Right.
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And
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that's dumb.
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By observing a thing-
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That's really strange. Mm-hmm.
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... they are making me feel bad.
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Cool, man.
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I demand they look elsewhere.
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Sounds like that's about you.
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Or lie to me. I demand the media lie to make me feel better.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I think that what you're, you're talking about is totally
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right. That there's this, this abstract idea of the shooter-
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Yeah.
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... that is really what Steven's talking about.
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Right.
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And there's just this breakdown, um,
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because I think that we're looking at media coverage of the story as being
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about reporting information.
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Right.
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And for him it's tactical.
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Yeah.
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It's all a strategic game.
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And that's what people believe, right? If
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something is front page center news, and we know this, how the media works, front page center news,
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white supremacist, without that information, a narrative,
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gun control, before the body is assumed room temperature, the information comes out the next day
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and that goes up in an article that people
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don't read to the same degree, people still believe the preconceived notions from
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when the media was initially reporting.
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But okay, let's go ahead and assume for me. Look, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna tell you
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this ain't real what I'm about to tell you, right? I'm not... I'm pretty-
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Establish that first.
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... but let's just go ahead and assume that your understanding of it is accurate. That on, on May
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7th, the media reported that he was a white supremacist, and that was the only
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fact they reported. They didn't report that his name was
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Mauricio Garcia or that he was Hispanic. All right? Assume for me that that happened. It didn't.
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Or, or May 6th, yeah.
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Or May 6th, right? Go ahead. I can tell you
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the shooter's name was not known on May 6th. There was no information about the shooter.
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No, not the shooter, but the idea of a white supremacist shooter, yes.
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Right. Not that either, right? None of that had even happened, right? But, but go ahead and assume for me
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that it did. Go ahead and assume for me that the media reported
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that the shooter had white supremacist leanings. That's not bullshit, right?
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That's 100% accurate.
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Right?
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If they reported that he had white supremacist leanings-
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Mm-hmm.
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... uh, Mauricio Garcia on the 7th, sure.
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Right. So again, about the shooter's identity, about who he was-
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Well-
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... there's nothing they said was bullshit.
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Right?
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I disagree.
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As it relates to the story at large, I disagree. I think a very important-
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Again, not asking you about-
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... (inaudible) .
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I know that, that we've been talking about this idea that there was a gun
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control narrative and that there was a cop who shot him, so
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therefore that invalidates gun control in some way because there was a cop with a gun.
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So I mean, I'm not sure who's trying to regulate cops having guns
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or how that ties in, but I get that that's a whole
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separate discussion, right? But what I'm saying is in terms of the media's identity
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of the shooter, the, the details that it reported
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about who the shooter was and what his background was, what his belief systems were,
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none of that was bullshit and never was.
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Right?
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I, I don't know if that's true.
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All right, so again, trying to focus down so you can tell me because this is my chance to get to ask-
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Sorry, I was just thrown because you said you didn't know anyone who was trying to regulate cops with
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guns and it was an off-duty officer with an AR-15. I, I, I find that difficult
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to believe that you are not aware of that. So I just, I thought this was taking place in good faith.
Unknown Speaker (02:07:24.983)
No, like the way it... So no, and I mean I
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am unaware of that. Are you saying that there's some sort of legislation in the works
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to make it so that off-duty officers don't have access to their
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weapons when they're off duty or something like that?
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Objection formed.
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Are you?
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Are you not-
Unknown Speaker (02:07:40.082)
Yeah, I'm being serious, man. No, I don't, I don't know about any legislation like that.
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Are you not aware of the movement for non-lethal weapons, including tasers to be used by officers? I mean,
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but yes-
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No, I don't, I don't believe it's, uh-
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And, and of course whether you're on duty or off duty, those weapons, yeah, were being included in a list of
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weapons that should be a part of gun control, which was used to
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stop the, uh, Hispanic shooter who was presented as
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a white supremacist. There were important components to the story,
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um, and I believe the media was being misleading about that. That's, that's-
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Extremely
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fascinating line of inquiry that we could get into on all of these issues that
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if we were in any other situation, I would love to talk to you about the
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vagaries of gun control and all of that, but not terribly relevant to what I want to
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ask you about today, right? And so what I'm really focusing in on
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is the idea of the shooter's identity, the details
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of the shooter's identity, his belief systems, his backgrounds, everything about who he is, right?
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I believe you told me that when I said that
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none of that was bullshit, you said you didn't, you didn't agree
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with that. And I'm trying to figure out, because it's my chance to ask you questions today, is if you can tell
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me what the mainstream media or- organizations that you cited
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got wrong about the shooter's identity, background, and belief systems.
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Objection formed.
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And my answer is that those are not mere vagaries when they were the primary driving narrative of the story.
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That's why the story was being covered.
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So there's just a disconnect that happens here, which is impossible
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to bridge because it's unquantifiable.
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Steven has an insistent belief that the media is covering the shooting and
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making up that it's a white supremacist because they want to push gun control and attack white people.
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In his mind, the media doesn't care about the shooting or the victims, which is actually a key
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part of his ability to emotionally rationalize how little he cares about them.
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The shooting happened in the same way that things happen
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every day, but the media chose to cover this one this
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way because it was part of their anti-gun, anti-white script.
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This imagined anti-white, anti-gun
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script is what Steven's coverage is based on, not the shooting itself or any
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real information about the case. The shooter's
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age, name, ethnicity, or photo are not important pieces of information in and of themselves.
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The only thing that matters is finding ways to undermine any potential this story has
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to be used in a way that Steven perceives as m- uh, making white people feel bad or arguing for gun regulation.
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Steven's coverage centers entirely around
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countering what he believes is the media's anti-white, anti-gun script.
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So if he sees a picture of a guy that he thinks
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looks too Hispanic to be a white supremacist, that's perfect to report.
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It doesn't enter his mind to fact check this mugshot
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because the truth or falsity of it doesn't matter. It's an effective prop in
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the moment to attack the imagined media script so it's going to be used ten times out of ten.
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Steven doesn't really even dispute that this is the case, it's just
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impossible for him to substantiate, and this ends up sounding really
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stupid.He can say the media covered this a
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lot when they thought he was a white supremacist, but stopped when they found out he was Hispanic all he
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wants, but that's just based on his feelings. Mark can explain media coverage of the shooter's identity all
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day long and it won't change the fact that Stephen felt like
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he was being attacked when people said that the shooter was a white
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supremacist, and when Stephen learned that the shooter was Hispanic, he
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felt vindicated, because according to Stephen, no Hispanic person can be a white supremacist.
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He's just pretty stupid and racist. And if there's one thing this deposition
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really highlights, it's that there's no way to diagram sentences for someone like Stephen.
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Explaining what words mean to him is like playing tennis against the drapes.
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Like, it, it has the same character as, like, when people don't realize that white s- uh, white nationalist
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is a combination of the word white and the word nationalist. The word nationalist,
Unknown Speaker (02:11:24.367)
i- i- it's not like the adjective white is, it's just a nationalist that happens to be white, right?
Unknown Speaker (02:11:30.567)
Yeah.
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It, they, they do-
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they refuse to understand these words-
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Yeah.
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... having a compound meaning.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And that's the same sort of thing that Stephen is, is
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embodying, and you can't, you can't get through that with explanation.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:44.346)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, because essentially, he's trying to signal
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in his base way that
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our realities simply will not
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co-exist.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like, whatever you, w- your reality, as you understand it, is large enough to hold mine, right?
Unknown Speaker (02:12:05.527)
There's my reality, and I'm filled with white nationalist rage that's based on bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:10.266)
Your reality is big enough to also have other stuff and conceive of my
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white nationalism. But what you don't understand is that my world is not inside of your world.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:21.447)
Mm-hmm.
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Our worlds are separate and at odds with each other.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:25.527)
Right.
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No amount of your language will ever matter to me, simply because we don't occupy the same world.
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And, and yours is inherently destructive to itself and everyone else.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:38.027)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:38.386)
But like, there's a,
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um, even if you are aware of that and recognize that-
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Mm-hmm.
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... uh, everything in Stephen's life has
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enforced that
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this is the right way to go about things-
Unknown Speaker (02:12:51.567)
Yeah.
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... and that his reality is
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good.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:54.287)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:54.527)
'Cause he's
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made tons of money and gotten super famous on a very low level of skill, talent, or, uh-
Unknown Speaker (02:13:02.987)
Totally.
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... wisdom.
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Yeah.
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Um, so why would you
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challenge these ideas?
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No.
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They've been pr- they've been proven in the field.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:10.567)
Yeah. It does feel like, uh, b- like, listening to some of this, it feels like, um, um,
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like when you see a sprinter.
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You know, like the, the fastest off the block
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idea is removing thought.
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Mm-hmm.
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And just your body reacts instantaneously, without you having to be like,
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"I heard the gun, now run." That kind of thing.
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And some of that, like the way he was like, "Oh, I heard you say something about the cop," like, that was-
Unknown Speaker (02:13:37.987)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:38.287)
That was pure, he could not control that. He couldn't have stopped himself from doing that.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:42.506)
Yeah.
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His body is trained to just react in that instant.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:46.127)
Yep. Yep. And it's, it's the way, it's the, um,
Unknown Speaker (02:13:49.466)
I don't know exactly what the right word is, but it's pedantic, and it's
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the game that he plays on college campuses-
Unknown Speaker (02:13:56.506)
Yeah.
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... and on his own show, that is
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fucking successful. I mean, you see Alex doing the same thing-
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Yeah.
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... in depositions, like he, he does his throw out a million topics strategy.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:07.606)
Yeah.
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Because that works in every other setting, so why not use it here?
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Yeah.
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It just, it doesn't work.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:12.787)
Absolutely. No, it's, it's prickish.
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Uh, uh... Yeah.
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He's a prick.
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And, and Mark, in, in that case, is engaging with the sort of childish, uh,
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going off on a little bit of a tangent.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:25.627)
Yep.
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And then brings it back around to, like, "This is great and we could talk about this, but
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it's not really important to what I'm trying to ask you about."
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Yeah.
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Which is, again, treating him like a child-
Unknown Speaker (02:14:36.886)
Yeah.
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... which I don't think is unearned.
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Yeah.
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But also
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hard.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:41.947)
No, our, our realities share only one Venn diagram point, and that is that we exist-
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Mm-hmm.
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... in this room together. Beyond that, when you leave this room, I
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won't exist. I will exist as Democrat lawyer.
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Right.
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I won't be a person. They, they will exist as blankety-blank person. You know?
Unknown Speaker (02:15:01.766)
Yeah.
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Like, it just doesn't, we don't co-exist.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:03.627)
Yup. So, uh, Stephen, one of his main points
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is that the media changed their narrative when they found out that t- this was a Hispanic person.
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One of his main lies.
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Right.
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Yeah. (laughs)
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Uh,
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defense mechanisms.
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(laughs) Right, right.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:17.506)
Uh, rationales. Um, but it turns out that he actually kinda changed his narrative-
Unknown Speaker (02:15:22.827)
Hey, what're you gonna do?
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... (laughs) as things went along.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:26.027)
So, in the middle picture videos, we see that those episodes were the ones in which, or episode,
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was the one in which you used an image of my client as the shooter, right?
Unknown Speaker (02:15:38.106)
It would appear so.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:40.466)
Now, the episode the next day, what you're showing there, that's a picture of the real
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shooter there, with his Nazi tattoos, right?
Unknown Speaker (02:15:48.106)
To the best of my recollection.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:49.287)
All right. And once it became clear, once it became clear to you
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that there was images out there of this person with neo-Nazi tattoos, your
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next report was to say that intelligence agencies might be involved in this shooting. Right?
Unknown Speaker (02:16:06.106)
Objection, form.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:07.686)
I, I don't recall.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:10.247)
Have you, have you watched the May 9th show recently? Like in preparation for this deposition?
Unknown Speaker (02:16:16.926)
No, I haven't watched it.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:18.287)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:20.247)
Would you disagree with me that
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once all this came out about the shooter's, pictures of the shooter's actual body,
Unknown Speaker (02:16:28.106)
that once that happened, you started suggesting that this incident was some sort of
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PSYOP or psychological operation?
Unknown Speaker (02:16:34.787)
Objection. Inform.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:36.387)
I don't believe that I referred, I don't recall referring to it as a PSYOP.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:41.106)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:42.447)
Do you have any idea why you thought intelligence
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agencies might be involved? Is that something you thought?
Unknown Speaker (02:16:46.926)
Hm, I don't recall, but it wouldn't
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be surprising.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:52.746)
Explain that to me. It wouldn't be surprising
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for US intelligence agencies
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to be involved in this
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neo-Nazi mass shooting? That's not surprising?
Unknown Speaker (02:17:04.606)
I would imagine that intelligence agencies would be involved with any
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type of mass shooting-
Unknown Speaker (02:17:11.586)
What?
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... that would require the use of intelligence.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:16.926)
You, you, wait, you're meaning that
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the intelli- what you're saying right now is you think intelligence agencies would be involved
Unknown Speaker (02:17:22.506)
after the fact in some way, like investigating it?
Unknown Speaker (02:17:26.307)
They could.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:26.947)
Objection, inform.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:27.867)
Could be.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:28.207)
That's not, that's not what this show is about, right? You understand that.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:31.766)
I, I, I don't recall. Is it something like the, is it something like the Hunter Biden laptop story? Or the...
Unknown Speaker (02:17:39.547)
I don't think so.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:39.787)
It's that instinct.
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Something about the FBI reaching out to s- big tech, telling them it was Russian disinformant-
Unknown Speaker (02:17:43.986)
Wow.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:43.986)
'Cause I know we've talked about those where,
Unknown Speaker (02:17:46.147)
um, I don't remember this one though. That one-
Unknown Speaker (02:17:47.426)
Let me see if I can refresh your memory. You know what Bellingcat is, right?
Unknown Speaker (02:17:50.887)
So that is exactly that. That is the, the-
Unknown Speaker (02:17:53.627)
Yep.
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... the instinct. It's the, he, he realized that he'd answered a question
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so poorly and so dumb, that he needed to, like, reassure himself with the, uh, knee-jerk,
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um,
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right-wing-
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Yeah.
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... social media storyline. "Well, what about this?"
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Yeah. "Can we get you a pacifier?"
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Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:13.246)
Ugh.
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It doesn't work though. And at this point, he knows that it's
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not gonna work. Right? Like, that's what I find really interesting.
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Yeah.
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He has to know by this point that this kinda thing is just not gonna work.
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You'd think.
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He's not gonna derail the questioning or like, Mark's not gonna be blown away by this amazing comeback.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:29.586)
Nothing is achieved other than, like, a dopamine rush-
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Yeah.
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... for Stephen. (laughs) That's...
Unknown Speaker (02:18:34.931)
Yeah.
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Fascinating.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:35.531)
I'm still a good boy.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:36.751)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:37.072)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:37.411)
I'm still good at this.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:38.371)
Yeah, it doesn't matter if I'm getting my ass kicked right now-
Unknown Speaker (02:18:40.911)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:40.911)
... I'm still a good boy.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:41.730)
And, uh, Mark brings up Bellingcat because, uh, Eric Toler from Bellingcat was the
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person who uncovered the Nazi tattoo photos.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:50.450)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:50.971)
And, uh, folks in Steve's, uh, area of the media believe that they are a US State Department front.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:55.751)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:18:56.431)
And so, that's, that's what he... Steven should understand that that was what is being discussed.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:02.730)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:02.970)
Not the... Intelligence agencies investigated a crime.
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He knows that.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:07.271)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:07.470)
He doesn't-
Unknown Speaker (02:19:07.611)
That's pathetic.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:08.271)
Yeah. That's stupid.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:09.371)
So, uh, a lot of people who, uh, ran with this photo, uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:19:15.351)
maybe aren't getting sued and stuff. And a lo- and maybe some of that is because they made a correction.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:21.072)
As it turns out, Steven never made a correction.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:24.130)
Ooh.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:25.051)
Do you remember on this May 9th show
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that you said there was some confusion over whether, over which was the real photo of the shooter?
Unknown Speaker (02:19:32.570)
Um, I,
Unknown Speaker (02:19:38.150)
I vaguely r- I recall I believed Gerald saying that and
Unknown Speaker (02:19:41.911)
I believe that was mentioned.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:44.191)
All right, let's make it clear.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:46.191)
You have never told your audience that you showed an incorrect picture on your show?
Unknown Speaker (02:19:52.171)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:54.591)
Again, I, I don't, I don't recall. Uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:19:56.790)
what you're saying sounds correct, that someone said there was confusion about the image.
Unknown Speaker (02:19:59.950)
Right. But, you know, one of the things that when
Unknown Speaker (02:20:04.511)
I first reached out to you on behalf of my client that I asked,
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is I asked, "Could you make a retraction and tell your audience that that was false?"
Unknown Speaker (02:20:12.950)
And you've never done that, have you?
Unknown Speaker (02:20:15.570)
I
Unknown Speaker (02:20:16.990)
don't believe I've ever communicated with you before today.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:19.031)
Well, I've certainly written you a letter.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:23.050)
I don't believe we've ever communicated, you and I, before today.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:25.870)
Huh. That's, that's interesting. So, yeah-
Unknown Speaker (02:20:28.490)
Have you and I spoken before today?
Unknown Speaker (02:20:30.351)
We've never spoken, no. No.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:32.150)
Have we emailed?
Unknown Speaker (02:20:33.111)
This, this, uh, this whole odyssey began when, um, I wrote a letter on May 22nd 2023,
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addressed to you and your company, uh, that
Unknown Speaker (02:20:42.751)
first informed you of all of this and then asked you to make a correction. Are you aware of that?
Unknown Speaker (02:20:48.831)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:50.950)
I'm just trying to... So,
Unknown Speaker (02:20:52.550)
you're saying that I responded to you directly? That you and I communicated?
Unknown Speaker (02:20:55.070)
I don't think you ever did. No, I don't think you ever responded to me.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:57.870)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:58.091)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:20:59.390)
So, I don't believe you and I have ever communicated before today?
Unknown Speaker (02:21:01.570)
Well, I mean, I would say sending you a letter makes it a communication. I would say that, yes.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:07.111)
So, what I'm asking you is-
Unknown Speaker (02:21:08.150)
I don't even recall ever, myself reading a, reading a letter from you. I don't.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:11.570)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:12.490)
And so,
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in other words,
Unknown Speaker (02:21:17.450)
not making a retraction, that wasn't... Was that an intentional choice on your part?
Unknown Speaker (02:21:21.751)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:25.290)
Uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:21:27.011)
no, because I don't recall any- anything that you're discussing. You
Unknown Speaker (02:21:29.591)
sending me a letter, I don't recall that letter
Unknown Speaker (02:21:31.931)
or that request being made from you. The only thing I recall is, again, my staff
Unknown Speaker (02:21:36.570)
saying there was some confusion and that being addressed on
Unknown Speaker (02:21:40.150)
the show.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:40.550)
Right. And part of that show was, in fact, to express your doubts
Unknown Speaker (02:21:47.271)
that these images of the shooter with neo-Nazi tattoos were real. Right?
Unknown Speaker (02:21:52.931)
I don't recall.
Unknown Speaker (02:21:54.331)
Well, that's unfortunate (laughs) .
Unknown Speaker (02:21:56.511)
I, I don't know if you get to just say, "I never got your letter," and get off the hook for not
Unknown Speaker (02:22:02.370)
responding to a, a request for a retraction.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:05.570)
I mean...
Unknown Speaker (02:22:06.851)
But, um,
Unknown Speaker (02:22:08.351)
I guess it's, it's worth trying.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:09.771)
I'm just saying, as a lawyer, I'm, I'm going into a deposition wearing a necklace of teeth.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:14.470)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:14.911)
And then I'm gonna say, "Most of these are Steven Crowder's." (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (02:22:18.031)
Yeah. I, I think that this... It just looks bad. And I, I think that, uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:22:24.611)
being, "I've never talked to you," uh, is, is such a, like... I, I, again,
Unknown Speaker (02:22:30.150)
I feel like he thinks he has technicalities or something-
Unknown Speaker (02:22:33.050)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:33.050)
... and they're just not real.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:34.570)
This is the type of thing where I, and I, I hate to be
Unknown Speaker (02:22:39.511)
an old man, uh, but this is the type of thing where it feels like
Unknown Speaker (02:22:44.411)
your mom has taken you to speak to the teacher.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:49.310)
Yup.
Unknown Speaker (02:22:50.050)
And if you had a mom that was going to help you grow into a good adult, that mom would like
Unknown Speaker (02:22:55.870)
wrap your knuckles with a ruler every time you were about to talk shit. You know?
Unknown Speaker (02:23:01.671)
Well, I guess, I guess it kind of depends a little bit. Because, like, I think that, uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:23:08.730)
um,
Unknown Speaker (02:23:10.351)
growing through an experience like this could involve a recognition of what was done wrong.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:16.271)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:16.570)
And if your mom is bringing you to the principal's office
Unknown Speaker (02:23:19.310)
and you're taking accountability and understanding what the issue with your behavior was-
Unknown Speaker (02:23:24.150)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:25.011)
... don't hit that kid on the knuckles
Unknown Speaker (02:23:26.890)
or whatever. You know, like, you don't need to,
Unknown Speaker (02:23:29.431)
you don't need to do more when the kid is engaging with the process of-
Unknown Speaker (02:23:33.171)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:33.171)
... of, uh, you know, what was done wrong.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:36.290)
Possible.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:37.111)
Um, but Steven will not even ac- accept-
Unknown Speaker (02:23:40.210)
No.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:40.431)
... any of that.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:41.490)
Nope.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:41.931)
He, he's like someone who's being brought to the principal's office, but just
Unknown Speaker (02:23:46.591)
will not accept that they broke a rule or, or anything. They did something that requires,
Unknown Speaker (02:23:53.390)
uh, a recognition of, of wrongdoing.
Unknown Speaker (02:23:55.710)
Right. But it's, but it's the opposite of that. It is
Unknown Speaker (02:23:59.290)
fully recognizing that they did wrong and refusing to accept any consequence for it.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:04.650)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:05.111)
You know? Like, "We both know that I fucked up and I fucked over your client. If I didn't, we wouldn't be here."
Unknown Speaker (02:24:10.550)
"I had to defend white people."
Unknown Speaker (02:24:11.931)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:12.271)
"Don't you understand?"
Unknown Speaker (02:24:13.171)
"Here's why it's okay, and here's why I refuse to accept consequences from you. You're illegitimate."
Unknown Speaker (02:24:19.771)
"I did something that was probably bad or wrong, whatever-"
Unknown Speaker (02:24:24.031)
Whatever.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:24.031)
"... but I did it in service of a greater good, which is white people."
Unknown Speaker (02:24:27.310)
"Only God can judge me."
Unknown Speaker (02:24:28.751)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:29.091)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:29.570)
So, we end, uh, on a somewhat disappointing note, where, uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:24:34.531)
it just-
Unknown Speaker (02:24:34.751)
'Cause he has all of his teeth.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:35.911)
And, and-
Unknown Speaker (02:24:37.191)
(laughs)
Unknown Speaker (02:24:37.271)
Not only does he have all of his teeth, he has no awareness of why this is even happening, really.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:42.351)
Of course not.
Unknown Speaker (02:24:43.251)
You would agree that this photo should have been investigated more fully before it was put on the air?
Unknown Speaker (02:24:49.710)
I would, I would agree with that being the case, if not reporting on someone else's, reporting
Unknown Speaker (02:24:56.671)
and pointing out to people
Unknown Speaker (02:24:58.450)
the source of the reporting.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:00.230)
That is something that we have to do very often.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:02.191)
I wanna make sure I get this, to make sure I understand this.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:05.570)
It is your belief that if you have a media organization, Today News Africa, we'll
Unknown Speaker (02:25:11.630)
call that a media organization for these purposes, right? If you have this media organization
Unknown Speaker (02:25:16.511)
and you find them suitable, that that is all the fact-checking you need to do,
Unknown Speaker (02:25:21.810)
and you can put the image that they say is the mass murderer on the air to your audience?
Unknown Speaker (02:25:27.570)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:27.851)
That's correct.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:32.810)
All those prere- No.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:34.130)
Okay. So, what else has to happen before you can do it?
Unknown Speaker (02:25:39.790)
Before you can do what?
Unknown Speaker (02:25:42.611)
Before you can put that picture out to people.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:46.251)
Again, if it's-
Unknown Speaker (02:25:47.091)
You got- You got- Let me just start back. You got a website
Unknown Speaker (02:25:50.031)
and it's saying, "This is the shooter."
Unknown Speaker (02:25:52.611)
No sourcing, just, "This is the shooter," and you've got it on a website.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:56.150)
And I guess you find that website suitable.
Unknown Speaker (02:25:58.531)
Is that enough, or what else has to happen before you can put that out to people?
Unknown Speaker (02:26:01.990)
No, again, it was saying, "According to this source, this is the shooter."
Unknown Speaker (02:26:08.411)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:08.450)
And there were other, as I recall, other existing sources.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:13.851)
So, there just has to be some other existing source?
Unknown Speaker (02:26:16.611)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:18.831)
I'm just trying to get them all. So, what we have so far-
Unknown Speaker (02:26:20.870)
Yeah. Th- that would, that would be a minimum that there, there would often have to be
Unknown Speaker (02:26:24.191)
at least more than one place that that is seen.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:26.370)
Got it.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:26.450)
It's not the only process.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:28.431)
So, we have,
Unknown Speaker (02:26:29.911)
in an article, it's used in an article by
Unknown Speaker (02:26:34.050)
someone purporting to be a media organization, and then if you see it
Unknown Speaker (02:26:38.351)
somewhere else,
Unknown Speaker (02:26:40.050)
then we're done, we can put it on the air? Nothing else needs to happen?
Unknown Speaker (02:26:44.063)
I didn't say nothing else needs to happen.
Unknown Speaker (02:26:45.484)
What else needs to happen?
Unknown Speaker (02:26:47.643)
Certainly, if this is something that is novel or new, um,
Unknown Speaker (02:26:52.222)
you would have to cite the source and say, "According
Unknown Speaker (02:26:55.102)
to them." Which is very important, especially when there's original reporting
Unknown Speaker (02:26:59.022)
that's not your own, only to give credit.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:02.042)
Sometimes, there are investigative journalists who are the only sources of information that exist.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:08.442)
And you have to give them credit and say, "According
Unknown Speaker (02:27:10.143)
to this person," because that's the information that you have available at the time.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:13.542)
All right. So now let's put that on the-
Unknown Speaker (02:27:15.824)
And make it publicly available, and then make it publicly available.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:18.122)
So, as long as you have
Unknown Speaker (02:27:20.263)
a website
Unknown Speaker (02:27:21.664)
that covers news that you find suitable,
Unknown Speaker (02:27:25.023)
uses the image, and then you see it somewhere else.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:29.602)
And as long as you say
Unknown Speaker (02:27:31.484)
that you got it from the source you got it from, Today
Unknown Speaker (02:27:33.903)
News Africa, that's all we need to do. Now we're done, we can put it on the air.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:37.843)
Right?
Unknown Speaker (02:27:38.423)
Objection form.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:39.942)
No.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:40.462)
Something else you need? What else needs to happen?
Unknown Speaker (02:27:42.763)
It depends on the story.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:44.323)
What needed to happen here?
Unknown Speaker (02:27:46.602)
I couldn't tell you what needed to happen here at that moment in time.
Unknown Speaker (02:27:52.722)
That's a shame, because that is literally what I came to ask you about. But
Unknown Speaker (02:27:58.403)
I think that will call it a day for today. Thank you for time, Mr. Crowder, and, uh, see you soon.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:02.722)
So, that is, uh, basically a moment where you're offering, um, a,
Unknown Speaker (02:28:10.563)
you know, "Have you thought about this at all?
Unknown Speaker (02:28:13.163)
Do you recognize what mistakes were made and how they could not be made in the future?
Unknown Speaker (02:28:18.503)
Do you care at all about, uh, the- the harm that was caused by the carelessness of reporting this image?"
Unknown Speaker (02:28:26.584)
Um, and there's just a refusal to engage even with the idea.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:32.183)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:32.343)
And that's
Unknown Speaker (02:28:34.503)
amazing.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:35.542)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:36.243)
'Cause I think you can be a shithead and be in that, like, space, and still, uh, act like a
Unknown Speaker (02:28:42.403)
person. Like, the... You know, you can still be like,
Unknown Speaker (02:28:45.442)
"Hey, look, I'm fast and loose sometimes. We make mistakes."
Unknown Speaker (02:28:48.983)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:49.243)
"I'm really sorry about this. I recognize... You know, here's a correction."
Unknown Speaker (02:28:54.003)
Like, like I said, we suspended the- this reporter who let the picture go through or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:58.903)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:28:58.962)
There's so much you can do to just... Even if you don't have empathy, feign it.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:04.163)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:04.663)
And just don't care.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:05.862)
Yeah, I was gonna say. It feels like
Unknown Speaker (02:29:10.183)
the truth of this world
Unknown Speaker (02:29:12.403)
is that it cannot co-exist.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:14.462)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:16.183)
But the reality of this world is that
Unknown Speaker (02:29:20.243)
it can at least act like it.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:22.122)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:22.602)
You know? Like, there is no possible way
Unknown Speaker (02:29:25.823)
for Steven Crowder's brain to hold true information. But
Unknown Speaker (02:29:30.903)
it is capable of understanding physical cues and responses therein.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:36.302)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:36.722)
You know? Like, that is what he's capable of doing. So you can never
Unknown Speaker (02:29:41.343)
teach him anything, but you can train him or- or, like, domesticate him, in essence.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:47.503)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:47.903)
That's- that's the best you can do for this world, is-
Unknown Speaker (02:29:51.122)
is, uh, dogs.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:51.743)
But I would-
Unknown Speaker (02:29:52.702)
I would suggest that based on this deposition, it doesn't seem very possible.
Unknown Speaker (02:29:58.183)
I-
Unknown Speaker (02:29:58.263)
I mean, not for us. You would need to have a dog trainer to- to do it. (laughs)
Unknown Speaker (02:30:01.602)
No, but- but I- I-
Unknown Speaker (02:30:03.243)
I mean, all of that kind of, like, you know, training is based on stimulus and response.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:08.862)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:09.063)
And so, you'd think that being sued and going to a deposition
Unknown Speaker (02:30:12.942)
and having this unpleasant hour and 45 minutes of your life-
Unknown Speaker (02:30:16.243)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:16.643)
... is going to be the negative stimulus that corrects the behavior or is-
Unknown Speaker (02:30:22.042)
But that's- that's what I'm saying. That's the re- that's the reality of the not... Uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:30:27.083)
it- it- we cannot actually co-exist.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:29.602)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:30.102)
Because in this world, where you live, that is an experience that will cause you to change your behavior.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:37.122)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:37.602)
If it is not an experience that will cause
Unknown Speaker (02:30:39.663)
them to change their behavior, it is because it is not an experience in their world.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:43.702)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:44.143)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (02:30:44.843)
Yeah. It- uh, it's- it's not sufficient.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:48.022)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:48.163)
It might be good, but it's not sufficient to change the behavior-
Unknown Speaker (02:30:51.862)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:30:51.983)
... at this point, it- it appears. And I- I think
Unknown Speaker (02:30:54.942)
that, based on listening to Steven, I don't know what would be. Like-
Unknown Speaker (02:30:58.763)
Cesar Millan.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:00.183)
Maybe.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:00.663)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:01.323)
I- I
Unknown Speaker (02:31:02.102)
think that, a lot of the times, we come away from a deposition with, um,
Unknown Speaker (02:31:06.702)
you know, something that's kind of interesting or revealing about, uh,
Unknown Speaker (02:31:10.743)
the case or the person or-
Unknown Speaker (02:31:12.503)
Something.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:12.962)
And the only thing that I really
Unknown Speaker (02:31:15.983)
feel after watching this is that Steven is way dumber than I thought-
Unknown Speaker (02:31:20.622)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:21.102)
... and has an entrenched racism
Unknown Speaker (02:31:24.622)
that is much more than, uh... I mean, his- a lot of his comedy and shit is pretty racist in- in nature.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:32.683)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:32.843)
But, like, you know, you hide behind like, "I'm making jokes. I'm making..."
Unknown Speaker (02:31:35.743)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:36.202)
You know? I- I- I think that there is a much more sincere racism in him, and a much stupider, uh, person.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:43.122)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:43.702)
Uh, and
Unknown Speaker (02:31:45.843)
I guess that's worth it.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:47.843)
Um, but I- I- I don't know. It's- it's not as-
Unknown Speaker (02:31:50.782)
it's not as insightful. And like even that Newsmax one was insightful-
Unknown Speaker (02:31:55.022)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:55.083)
... into how a lot of this bullshit works.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:57.302)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:31:57.962)
I feel like Steven doesn't really fully understand even the game that he's playing.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:02.802)
No.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:03.323)
I think that he is, um,
Unknown Speaker (02:32:05.903)
maybe
Unknown Speaker (02:32:07.542)
a front man of an operation.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:10.243)
Yeah. I would say-
Unknown Speaker (02:32:10.802)
More than he is... He's not an Alex.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:12.802)
No. No, no, no. I would say he's- he's more of, like, a- a tribal follower kind of thing.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:18.243)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:18.722)
Wherein, like,
Unknown Speaker (02:32:20.102)
within the group, he is capable of altering behaviors based upon
Unknown Speaker (02:32:25.583)
what the group says.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:26.882)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:27.403)
But outside of the group, it's not possible.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:29.362)
I don't think that if he wasn't getting cues and, like,
Unknown Speaker (02:32:33.882)
having other people run his business-
Unknown Speaker (02:32:36.163)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:36.183)
... I don't think this would work.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:37.382)
I don't think either.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:37.862)
Whereas I think Alex obviously needs some infrastructure help from folks.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:42.882)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:43.362)
But
Unknown Speaker (02:32:44.083)
he can... Like, he- before he had those things, he still created InfoWars.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:49.643)
Right, right, right.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:50.243)
I don't think-
Unknown Speaker (02:32:50.802)
He had hustle where he didn't have the- the smarts.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:53.382)
If Crowder hadn't got on Fox News and, like, uh, you know, created a YouTube channel out of it-
Unknown Speaker (02:32:59.202)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:32:59.263)
... that people have, you know,
Unknown Speaker (02:33:01.663)
worked since.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:02.802)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:03.302)
Like, I don't think- I don't think anybody would be interested in this.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:06.202)
No.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:06.403)
Like, I don't think he has it.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:08.102)
No, I mean, I think the- the irony of it truly is that
Unknown Speaker (02:33:12.843)
only someone as stupid as this would have done the stupid things he did to get to where he is.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:19.163)
Yeah, that might be it.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:20.063)
You know? Like, you would have to be a fucking idiot-
Unknown Speaker (02:33:23.183)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:23.382)
... to set up a fucking table on a goddamn campus and be like, "Debate me, bro."
Unknown Speaker (02:33:28.003)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:28.743)
And he's a fucking idiot! It makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:31.702)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:32.622)
Yep. And- and, like, Owen Shroyer initially
Unknown Speaker (02:33:36.903)
did that. Like, "Let's go fight with college students and stuff."
Unknown Speaker (02:33:39.862)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:39.862)
But he
Unknown Speaker (02:33:40.942)
pivoted.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:41.643)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:42.042)
And, like, I don't know if Crowder really has.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:44.882)
I mean, this... He- he couldn't stop doing it in a deposition with the lawyer.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:49.462)
But I think Owen can't resist some of that shit too. But he's- he-
Unknown Speaker (02:33:53.343)
But he's just a shithead, you know?
Unknown Speaker (02:33:55.362)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:55.802)
He's like a shithead bro.
Unknown Speaker (02:33:57.302)
Um, but I think- I just think that there isn't much more here.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:01.503)
There isn't.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:02.063)
Steven Stupid.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:03.782)
That is-
Unknown Speaker (02:34:04.183)
That's- that's- that's the headline.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:05.563)
It is- it is-
Unknown Speaker (02:34:06.263)
Steven Crowder, Dumb.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:07.343)
It is really... But it- but
Unknown Speaker (02:34:09.483)
really dumb.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:10.503)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:10.823)
In a way that you almost don't think it's possible to reach an age and still be said dump.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:16.423)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:16.843)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:17.222)
A lot of times, I will say, um, you know, "Hey, if you- if you really
Unknown Speaker (02:34:21.122)
like watching depositions, go ahead and watch the thing." But you don't really need to watch it.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:26.202)
No.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:26.222)
In this case, I think, like,
Unknown Speaker (02:34:28.683)
if- if you can find the full version, go ahead and watch that whole thing. Because
Unknown Speaker (02:34:32.143)
it's, like, it's pretty nuts, the- the
Unknown Speaker (02:34:36.663)
inability to engage that he has.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:38.063)
Yeah, you'd marvel at it.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:39.563)
Um, and I hope to... You know, I hope I captured some of that, but whatever.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:43.243)
I- I think you did.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:44.643)
So, uh, we'll be back with another episode. But until then, we have a website.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:48.243)
Indeed we do, at zealotright.com.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:49.923)
Yep, we'll be back. But until then, I'm Neo, I'm Leo, I'm DZX Clark. I am the mysterious professor.
Unknown Speaker (02:34:55.102)
Woo, yeah! Woo, yeah! Woo!
Unknown Speaker (02:34:57.802)
And now, here comes the sex robots.
Unknown Speaker (02:35:00.042)
Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (02:35:04.022)
Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (02:35:07.302)
I love you.
