Transcript/1031: An Unpleasant Sushi Date

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Now N-n-n-n-n-Ops knowledge if I
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am andpanic I've glad knowledgeWHITE.com it's down to
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I have great respect for knowledge fight.
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Knowledge fight.
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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.
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Knowledge fight.
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Dan and Jordan.
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Knowledge fight.
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Rattle her.
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Rattle her.
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Rattle her.
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Need.
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Need money.
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Rattle her.
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Rattle her.
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Rattle her.
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Andy in Kansas.
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Andy in.
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Andy in.
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Stop it.
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Andy in.
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Andy in.
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Andy in.
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Andy in.
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Andy in.
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It's time to pray.
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I like the mustard cream color.
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I'm a huge fan.
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I love your work.
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Knowledge fight.
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Knowledge fight.
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Knowledge fight dot com.
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I love you.
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Hey everybody.
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Welcome back to knowledge fight.
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I'm Dan.
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I'm Jordan.
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We're a couple dudes.
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I'd like to sit around worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex
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Jones.
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Oh indeed we are Dan.
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Jordan.
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Dan.
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Jordan.
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Quick question for you.
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What's up?
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What's your bright spot today buddy?
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My bright spot today is I'm seriously considering getting another tattoo.
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Ooh.
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We are the tat guys of course.
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I like that.
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And I've been thinking about it.
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I feel the call.
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I like it.
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And so I have a couple ideas.
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I have a couple ideas of things I think I'm going to get.
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But I'm not so much.
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I came to tattoos old.
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And so I have like a need to mean something.
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Of course.
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It has to be something that I really love.
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And I was trying to think of like what could I get that I will never be like wow that sucks.
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This is garbage.
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Yeah.
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And I think the Kiko Man soy sauce logo.
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I have never not loved that soy sauce.
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It's the best.
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Okay.
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It's been a large part of my life.
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I agree.
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Absolutely.
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And it stayed unchanged throughout that entire time period.
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Yes.
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And I've been disappointed by every other soy sauce.
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That's true.
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Every other like commercially available soy sauce.
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I'm with you.
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Maybe not like Kraft artisan soy sauce or whatever.
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100 percent.
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But it's such a big difference between the next brand and Kiko Man.
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I agree.
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And so that means something to me.
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Yeah.
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And so I think I might get Kiko Man on my forearm.
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I like it.
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Yeah.
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I mean you know I think it's cool.
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But I also.
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I think it's a good logo.
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I have a jar right here.
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I have a bottle on my desk.
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Yeah.
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Just in case.
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Right.
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And you notice that it has like this hexagonal border.
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Mm hmm.
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I was thinking like that kind of could be a repeating pattern.
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And I was like I could get a whole sleeve of like.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Like a beehive.
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Yeah.
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Of Kiko Man logos.
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That's fun.
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I like that.
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That sounds stupid.
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That sounds too much.
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But I'm.
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The idea is percolating in my mind.
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To.
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To a certain level.
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Every tattoo is stupid.
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Sure.
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You know.
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So.
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Fuck it.
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You know.
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I think a whole sleeve of Kiko Man logos might be.
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Why not?
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Why not?
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What's gonna happen?
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I might get a sponsorship.
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What are you gonna lose a job?
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So anyway.
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I'm thinking about that and there may be some updates on that in the future.
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I like it.
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I like it.
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But what about you?
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What's your bright spot?
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My bright spot is these new shoes.
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Mm hmm.
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My wife has purchased me new shoes because I don't know if you recall but about a week
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and a half ago I was outside for the 20 minutes when a flash flood happened.
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Yes.
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And my shoes were ruined.
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Yeah.
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So I just didn't have any for a couple weeks as is my want.
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And then my wife got me these for my birthday.
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Hey how about that?
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So yeah.
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Thank you very much.
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They're my first green shoe.
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I have green shoes too.
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Do you have green shoes?
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Oh shit.
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Look at that.
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We both have green shoes.
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Isn't that great?
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I've never had anything but black or brown.
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I swear.
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Yeah.
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I haven't either and I find it to be a tough adjustment.
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Is it?
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You have a blue jean on the green shoe.
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Sure.
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You wonder is this okay?
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I have a...
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It's a colors clashing that you're not used to.
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I see it as camo and I don't even know my feet are there.
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Hey.
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Alright.
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It's just more sidewalk in my head.
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Well how are they inside?
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They feel good?
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Pretty good.
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Pretty good.
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Just got some insoles.
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Nice and support.
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Cause I got flat feet.
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I have the flattest feet.
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You're out of the army then.
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It's creepy.
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So yeah.
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You fit great?
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Nice.
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Loving it.
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Awesome.
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Fantastic.
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It was a different day but I too was caught in a flash flood deluge.
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Yeah.
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So you had had that experience and then you told me about it and then a couple days later
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fuck around and it happens to me.
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It was right after my birthday and to the point where I was like well I gotta get a
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cake.
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I'm so wet.
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I'm soaked.
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I'm miserable.
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It's near my birthday.
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I gotta get a cake.
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There's only one way to deal with this properly.
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So I got a little cake.
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I like it.
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Again I think that's a great move.
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So Jordan today we have an episode to go over.
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Alright.
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And we're gonna be talking about something a little bit off the beaten path.
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Okay.
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We're gonna be talking about, see we did a Mystery Babylon episode on Monday.
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And we gotta get back to our primary ding dong.
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And so I was like we gotta get back to Alex.
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But then I came across something that I feel like I can't believe I hadn't seen this before.
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Okay.
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And maybe I had and I'd forgotten or something.
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But it took over my brain a little bit.
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Okay.
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And that is a 2003 sushi date that Joe Rogan and Alex Jones went on that was shot as bonus
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features for a DVD.
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And I'm sorry?
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Yes.
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I'm sorry?
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We're gonna be talking about the time that Alex and Joe Rogan went out for sushi.
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Was this directed by Jim Jarmusch or something?
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It was directed by Kevin Booth.
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Okay.
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Alright.
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Sounds right.
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Produced by Jarmusch.
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There we go.
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Okay.
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Like coffee and cigarettes with a little pee coda.
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There is coffee involved.
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They go to Starbucks after they get sushi.
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But no cigarettes.
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Anyway, this is, there's some really really important things that happen in this.
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I believe you.
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But also some very unimportant things.
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And Joe Rogan seemed like a completely different person.
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And we'll get down to business on all of this.
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But first, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks.
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Ooh, that's a great idea.
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So first, my husband brought me Swiss cheese Cheetos from Brazil, which I immediately recognized
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as a sign to become a policy wonk.
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Thank you so much, you're now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much!
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That sounds good.
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Next, Tara is giving money to say hi to all the cats and dogs.
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Thank you so much, you're now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much!
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Thank you!
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And little titty baby John in Colorado for his 40th birthday, January 27th, 2024.
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Whoops.
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Happy birthday, you're now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much!
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Thank you!
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And we got a technocrat in the mix, Jordan, so thank you so much to happy baseball season
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to Jordan from Cooperstown, New York, home of the Baseball Hall of Fame.
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Show hey love all around!
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Also hi Dan, much love from Matty.
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Go Phillies!
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Thank you so much, you are now a technocrat.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Four stars, go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.
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Someone, someone, sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.
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Daddy shark!
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Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp.
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Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.
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He's a loser little, little titty baby.
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I don't want to hate black people.
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I renounce Jesus Christ!
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you very much.
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I know that Philly has the reputation of really bad fans.
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Uh, sure.
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Really aggressive, like, scary fans.
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But fans from a certain perspective.
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Yeah, but my experience of Philly fans outside of Philadelphia, you know, like people I've
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met in Chicago who are like big Philadelphia people.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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They've all been wonderful.
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Of course.
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I think it's just being in Philadelphia.
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I think there's something about, there's a when in Rome element to it, for sure.
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I think that there's something about that city enables.
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Here is where things are okay, and outside of here is where things are not okay.
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It's like a smoking section.
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Philly is essentially America's smoking section, I think.
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Yeah.
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So, here we go.
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Let's talk about a sushi date.
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Alright.
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So, an under-discussed aspect of Alex's career, and something we've touched on a little bit
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but never really gotten too much into, is his association with an outfit called Sacred
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Cow Productions.
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This is a company that started with Bill Hicks and his producing partner, Kevin Booth.
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Through Sacred Cow, Booth distributed a ton of Hicks's content, including posthumously,
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and then after Hicks had died, it took on the shape of like a collective of presumably
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like-minded artists.
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Kevin and Bill had met Alex while they were filming a documentary about Waco, and in 2000,
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before his rise to prominence with 9-11 Conspiracies, their company put out the best of Alex Jones'
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VHS collection.
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Then, in 2001, they released Joe Rogan's first comedy special, Live from the Belly of the
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Beast.
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This special is the one that features a cameo from Alex, and it includes the video where
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Alex and Joe put on Bush masks, and they dick around at the Texas Capitol, which seems to
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be the only positive memory that Joe has of Alex that he can call to mind to justify why
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they're friends.
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That does sound correct.
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I don't think that there's a grand conspiracy here, but we all need to recognize how incredibly
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weird it is that 25 years ago, a dipshit from local access TV in Austin and the guy
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from News Radio were part of the same media collective, and now they're two of the most
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prominent media figures that have supported and cheer-led Donald Trump's elections in
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2016 and 2024, respectively.
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I don't know if that means anything, but it's fucking crazy.
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Yeah.
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Also, Sacred Cow Productions offers a collection of videos and CDs that you can get from various
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performers like Rogan, Alex, and Doug Stanhope.
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If you go through their collection of stuff, it's like Bill Hicks, Doug Stanhope, Alex,
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Rogan, and then some tapes called No Bra at Mardi Gras.
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Oh my God.
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Yeah, they got a knockoff Girls Gone Wild.
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Girls Gone Wild knockoff, great.
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And a bunch of real high-minded fuck the man kind of stand-ups.
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You know what my problem with Girls Gone Wild was?
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There weren't enough copycats around.
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Exploiting women, that's fine.
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Of course, everybody likes that.
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We needed more of it.
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That's great.
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Yeah.
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My buddies ordered something off of a late night infomercial called Girls Going Crazy.
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That's a true crime documentary.
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And that led us to, I think they must have just sent us more tapes or something, because
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there was one called The Freak Box.
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No, no, no, no.
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I don't want to open The Freak Box.
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What they would do, so these people, this company.
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These fucking people.
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They put a makeshift box outside a bar and then put a video camera in it and people could
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go in and do whatever.
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Oh my God.
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It was very disappointing.
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Yeah, that does sound right.
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So in 2003, Kevin Booth was working on a documentary about the war on drugs.
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And part of that was going out to LA to interview Rogan, which is a no brainer.
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That dude loves drugs.
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You're going to get a good interview out of him.
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For some reason, Alex came along and Kevin decided to record what I would describe as
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a very awkward sushi date between those two men.
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And we thankfully have this recorded for posterity because I think it tells you a lot about their
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relationship.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you know, sometimes, sometimes when you're looking at history, there's just this
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weird shit happens that winds up altering the course of the universe.
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You know, like the the Serbians who assassinated Kaiser Wilhelm, you know, like if you read
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their story, you're like, no way do these guys change the universe.
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These guys are kind of bumbling boobs.
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Yeah.
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And this sushi date, you would not expect that we would be where we are in 2025.
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That's for sure.
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How about that?
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Also, I don't know if Alex knows how to use chopsticks.
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That I, I, I would strongly suggest he does.
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He gestures well with them.
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I will I will give him that much.
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I would almost say that if I were Alex, I would not learn how to use chopsticks on principle.
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You know?
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Well, I mean, I think that he would say something about his sister being Korean adopted.
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So there you go.
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I'll take it back.
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So we start in the middle, essentially.
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This behind the scenes featurette begins in the middle of a conversation that they're
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having.
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And Joe is talking about like, why weed is illegal, man.
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All right.
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They're all just afraid of hemp.
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Okay.
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And the only reason why most of these drugs are illegal anyways, because we can't control
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them.
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Your marijuana is illegal now because they can't tax it.
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Maybe because they can't stop you from growing it.
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It's illegal now because you can't grow it.
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Well, George Washington grew it.
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Well, we all know the whole deal behind it.
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The reason why it was made illegal in the first place is because they came up with a
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method of producing pulp from hemp that was much more efficient.
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The way they used to do it back when hemp was a viable crop and it was used by farmers
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all across the country when they made paper out of it, when they made clothing out of
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it.
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Sales.
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It was all collected by slaves and it was all processed by slaves, but that's not very
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cost effective once slavery became illegal.
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So hemp died off and cotton took hold.
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Now in the 1930s, in the cover of Popular Science magazine, they had an article that
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said hemp, the new billion dollar crop.
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And they were talking about how this new, I think it was called the de-corticator.
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I forget what it's called, but it was a new machine that they had invented that made it
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much more efficient to process the pulp.
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And they were going to make superior paper products, superior cloth.
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It was also when DuPont came up with a chemical composition for nylon.
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Now what they did was, William Randolph Hearst, not only did he own newspapers, he also owned
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paper plants where he made paper.
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And if hemp is a superior paper and everyone's using hemp, he would have had to transfer
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all of his lumber yards and all of his paper plants to processing hemp.
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That would have cost millions of dollars.
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So what did they do?
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Instead they went after the other thing that hemp does.
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It actually intoxicates you.
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And they financed, well, you have one right to ask.
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On fear.
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They did it based on fear.
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They said Mexicans and blacks are smoking marijuana.
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They called it the slang term.
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They didn't call it cannabis.
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They didn't call it hemp.
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They didn't call it things that people would be familiar with.
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They called it the slang that Mexicans used.
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There's a drug called marijuana and these people are smoking it and they want to rape
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white women.
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And they started passing laws.
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They made films where you smoke your turban.
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Sure.
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I've got all of them.
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I've got a lot of them.
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I've got a lot of them.
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I've got a bunch of them.
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And they're fantastic.
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They're brilliantly stupid.
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So what Joe is expressing here is very interesting because a lot of it's true but some of it
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is also a strong argument against Alex's fundamental worldview.
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It's absolutely correct that the war on drugs and the criminalization of weed were political
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and specifically racist developments in our country.
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Nixon's domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman laid it out quite explicitly in an interview
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he did with Harper's in 1994.
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Quote, the Nixon campaign in 1968 and the White House after that had two enemies, the
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anti-war left and black people.
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You understand what I'm saying.
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We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black.
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But by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and the blacks with
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heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.
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We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings and vilify
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them night after night on the evening news.
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Did we know we were lying about drugs?
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Of course we did.
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A great deal of the hysteria around drugs comes down to this type of exploitation, like
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how the 1875 anti-opium laws in San Francisco were largely a covert effort at attacking
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the growing Chinese immigrant population there.
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It's actually pretty funny to think about how much of the stuff we see about fentanyl
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is rooted in this same motivation and how deeply Joe is invested in creating propaganda
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around that issue that really is the modern day equivalent to all those reefer madness
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films he rightfully mocked in this 2003 rant.
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He's become the thing he always knew was stupid.
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This whole part about hemp being a magic product and threatening William Randolph Hearst's
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paper factories, that's a little bit less historically based, but it might be Joe trying
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to come up with a larger financial explanation for why certain actions in history were taken
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as a way to absolve the past of being so damn racist.
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Hemp is a versatile crop, and even though Joe overstates how it could replace so many
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other markets, it did get an unfair shake in terms of the whole market.
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A lot of that is due less to Hearst's machinations and has more to do with the history of industrial
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hemp production in the United States.
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There was some domestic production, but it was largely propped up by tariffs on importing
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bast fibers from other countries.
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That tariff was dropped in 1872, and that had a crushing effect on the US hemp production,
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so you could just get other shit from other countries at the same or lesser price.
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Yeah, it's cheaper.
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But in the later 1800s and into the early 1900s, a huge opportunity arose with the invention
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of the self-binding harvester.
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Now farmers needed shitloads of high quality twine to use in their binding machines, and
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hemp was perfect for that.
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This led to the United States Department of Agriculture exploring ways to build up the
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production of American hemp.
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There was promise, and there was some breeding of strains that was really showing a lot of
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potential, but then the Great Depression came and really shifted everyone's priorities about
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land usage, and hemp became not really as important anymore.
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Imported, cheaper, possibly lower quality fibers were fine in this context, and the
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bottom more or less fell out of the building of the industrial hemp base.
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There were attempts at making hemp a wider-grown crop, but the timing was just really bad for
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it.
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It never really made a comeback before the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 was imposed, and
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racist attitudes and stigma toward weed rubbed off on hemp.
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It didn't help that DuPont had developed nylon in the late 30s, but Joe doesn't have a basis
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for claiming that efforts to prop up big nylon were behind the diminishing of hemp.
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Yeah.
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The popular science article that Joe is referencing is actually from Popular Mechanics, and it's
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about the promise of a new machine that he got the name right.
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It was the Decorticator.
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This machine solved the problem of hemp being far more labor-intensive to process than other
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fibers that are comparable, but it wasn't a miracle solution.
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Even this article that Joe is referencing says, quote, One obstacle to the onward march
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of hemp is the reluctance of farmers to try new crops.
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The problem is complicated by the need for proper equipment at a reasonable distance
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from the farm.
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The machine cannot be operated profitably unless there's enough acreage within driving
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range, and farmers cannot find a profitable market unless there's machinery to handle
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the crop.
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This headline that Joe remembers is from an article that's discussing the potential gains
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that could come from industrial hemp production replacing our reliance on foreign fibers.
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Even in that body of the article, they discuss how it's not a sure thing.
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This machine did not live up to the promises that were imagined.
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The bigger picture here is that a belief that DuPont and Hurst not liking hemp leading to
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hemp being crushed despite it being a miracle crop requires a belief that the free market
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doesn't exist.
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That might be okay for Joe in 2003, but not Alex.
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He can't possibly incorporate this into his strong defense of laissez-faire capitalist
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kind of attitudes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you would have to expand your definition of the market to include existence, all existence.
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The free market is fine because these guys can steal from you.
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Oh, is that part of the free market?
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So much of the defense of the idea of like government not intervening and stuff and it
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has to do with like the market will figure it out.
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Right.
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You know, like, and no, it won't.
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Right.
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Right.
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If you believe that DuPont being really rich and having this thing that the free market
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doesn't sort this out.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it would have to be in order for the free market to actually sort something like
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this out, there would have to be no laws.
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You know what I mean?
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Like no laws.
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You're raising your eyebrows at me.
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Like old west kind of, oh, did you take something from us?
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, I mean, that's the libertarian fantasy, right?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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That's pretty much it.
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If you're rich enough, you can have an army.
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I just remember, and I think this is what happened.
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Maybe if we were going to pinpoint something that happened, it was this.
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The only reason you had to listen to people like Joe talk was because you had a financial
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incentive to buy the drugs from them that you wanted.
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Yeah.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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And now people just do it for free.
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Well, yeah.
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But I think that Joe also, like at this point, has a little bit of, like he has a gift of
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speech.
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Sure.
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He has momentum to the things he's saying.
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Sure.
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He has, there's a likability in the way that he delivers himself and it feels like this
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is a fucking fun guy.
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It does.
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This is a cool guy.
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I wouldn't mind hanging out with him.
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I, until-
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And he's going to sell me a bag.
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Great.
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And then I'll leave.
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It's kind of the idea.
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Yeah.
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So they get to discussing how, you know, you were raising your eyebrows and saying there
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should be no laws.
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Sure.
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I'm not saying that.
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I'm just saying if you want things to be, oh.
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They think that there should only be laws about like, you can't hurt people.
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Yeah, that sounds right.
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You made a point that it was really good about how if it doesn't hurt somebody and it's,
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you know, your body, but as soon as they try to hurt you, then it is your business.
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But here's the deal.
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Making the drugs illegal drives up the price of the black market and makes it a violent
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industry.
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And by making it illegal, nine out of ten home invasions are some drug addict.
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So right there, making it illegal is causing most our crime.
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It is hurting us.
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Absolutely.
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That's, you can't argue that.
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You know, and the people who argue it, they say, this is what they say, well, you know
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what, alcohol may be worse, but we don't need more drugs.
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This society needs less drugs.
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Okay, well, let's make alcohol illegal too then, fucker.
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You know, we tried that already and it didn't work.
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You know why?
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Because too many Republicans and too many fucking Congressmen like alcohol.
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You know, it's a good drink for someone who's trying to control society.
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It's a drink that pumps up your ego.
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It's a drink that gives you a distorted perception of reality.
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And it's not a drink that offers any insight whatsoever.
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It's not a drug that gives you any enlightenment.
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It's not a drug that helps you in any way, shape or form.
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It's a drug that gives you a pumped up ego and a very narrow view of the world.
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Whereas other drugs, you're going to eat my food, dude?
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You're going to dig into my food, motherfucker?
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I see what you're doing.
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You got a combination of them?
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No, that's all my shit.
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That's all yours?
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That's all my sashimi.
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What did you order?
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I got a drink from Kevin Booth who's trying to eat his sashimi.
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I'm going to leave aside Alex's statistics because they're made up.
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But I want to follow the train of thought that he's putting forth.
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If something doesn't hurt anyone, there shouldn't be a law against it.
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So drugs should be legal.
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Further, the prohibition of drugs has made drugs more expensive and turned them into
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a huge illegal market, which leads to most of the crime in the country.
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If that prohibition wasn't there, then the drugs would be legal.
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That crime wouldn't exist.
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I wanted to bring focus to this because it's a great example of some shit that Alex never
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believed.
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He always supported the opposite position on, but he was smart enough to know early
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in his career that the only way he wasn't going to be written off as just another fucking
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limbaugh was to have positions like this that appealed to a more left-leaning audience.
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This is really savvy on his part, the presenting himself this way.
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And the interview is dripping in that energy of him trying to make himself think, I'm not
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like all those other Republicans that you hate.
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I'm not even a Republican.
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Hey, come on, man.
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I'm cool.
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Come on, Joe.
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Yeah, you know, there is something to be said about the limbaugh who just says it's okay
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to do drugs being perceived as infinitely less racist.
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Like right out the gate, just being like, it's okay to do drugs because of America associating
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drugs with racism, essentially from the beginning.
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Right.
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But I think Joe is the one who's more bringing that part up.
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Alex is saying that the prohibition leads to crime.
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There's a less racism-based justification for why the war on drugs is bad.
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But yeah, I think that you can, you know, the never-Trump Republicans have an outsized
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coolness to them in a lot of people's minds because they have one right opinion.
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Right.
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You know, Ron Paul seemed fucking awesome to a lot of people because he was against
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war and liked weed.
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Yeah.
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It's, it's, uh, people, people give people a lot of credit for things.
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There is a generous willingness to forgive anything so long as you are on my team in
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this moment.
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I think it's a Grinch syndrome.
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Mm.
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Interesting.
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So because you gave the presents back, your heart grew three sizes instead of because
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I gave the presents back, I will have 10 times more presents next year.
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We like to, yeah, we like to treat all these people like the Grinch.
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Yeah.
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So, um, you know, if, if you can, you know, it doesn't hurt anybody.
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Adults should be able to do whatever they want.
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Look, the bottom line is no, you're an adult.
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Okay.
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You're an adult.
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I'm an adult.
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Who am I to tell you what you can't do with your life?
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Now if you drive around fucked up on heroin, that's another thing.
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You drive around fucked up on heroin and you crash into, you should have your driving privileges
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revoked.
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You should be penalized.
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I absolutely agree with you.
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That sounds like a libertarian view.
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It is a libertarian view.
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The neutral aggression of Mac Truce.
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Just don't hurt me and I won't hurt you.
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Of course.
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And the law can't get involved unless you're accurately hurt somebody.
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That's what society is, man.
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Society is a bunch of people living together in cooperation.
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The only thing we should stop is things that hurt other people for no reason.
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So Joe needs to clarify what his position is here because it makes a big difference.
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Does he believe that you can only be punished if you drive on heroin and it leads to a crash?
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Or does he believe that society understands that driving on heroin is dangerous so it
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has the right to place prohibitions on doing it to the point where even if you don't crash
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and hurt someone, you should be arrested if you're caught driving on heroin?
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This is an important distinction since one just has the belief in consequences being
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given for actual harm done.
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The other involves a belief that the state has a responsibility to protect its people
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from very obvious potential harms like someone driving on heroin.
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If he believes the prior, then he shouldn't believe that driving on heroin matters.
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It's just illegal to hurt someone in a car crash.
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If he believes the latter, then his view isn't really all that libertarian at all.
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And I don't think they care to parse this.
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Also, if you watch the video of this, Alex does not give a single shit about what Joe
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is saying and the two of them really don't feel like they're that close at all.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah.
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There's a very, there's a tenseness.
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There's always, I love, I love when somebody is like, well, these things are obvious.
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If you do this, you do this.
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And they don't recognize that if you follow that train of logic through the interconnectedness
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of all things that we might consider hurt, quote unquote, then you're going to get literally
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our current justice system.
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You're going to get a lot of things that are very similar.
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Yeah.
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It's just a bunch of like, well, in this case, maybe we do a little bit of, it's like twisting
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dials and shit instead of being like you, until something hurts somebody you don't even
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know.
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And it could be 15 steps down along the line.
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Right.
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You know, like the question that I would ask Joe in this, in this instance, first I would
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ask him like that clarifying question.
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Sure.
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And then I would ask, should I be allowed to build a bomb?
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Sure.
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Like in my apartment building, should I be able to?
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I'm not hurting anybody.
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I'm potentially blowing up my neighbor's houses potentially.
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But should I be punished in advance for this possible thing that might happen?
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No, you should only be punished if the bomb goes off.
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I don't know.
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I mean, I'm wearing these shoes, right?
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They were purchased or they were made by slave labor.
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By creating the demand for shoes, am I then enabling slave labor?
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What is harm or hurt and how far do you avoid responsibility for it?
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Yeah.
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You know, it's absurd.
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It's not well delineated here.
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But I think that Joe has a decent perspective and that is largely that strength and power
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within society is disproportionate.
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Sure.
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And one of the things about creating a culture together in a society is that we don't just
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let strength determine who has rights and what gets done.
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Yeah.
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And then this, this leads to something crazy.
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Look, it's an alpha male dominated world, but we don't want the biggest, strongest people
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to run the world.
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So what do we do?
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We protect ourselves from being bullied.
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We protect ourselves from people doing bad things to other people.
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And that's the only laws that should be applicable.
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Those are the only laws that should exist in the book.
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That's it.
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It's the laws that protect people from hurting you.
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That's it.
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Someone sitting at home smoking a joint isn't hurting anybody.
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And at the same time, you know, parents will throw their kid in jail and call the cops
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on them for a joint of marijuana.
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But then they'll tell them, take your Ritalin and Prozac, which is a thousand times more
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toxic.
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Well, you know what, man, people are stupid and they're ignorant and our society doesn't
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help it.
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It's a material based society.
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People want to get material goods and want to get material items.
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They want to get shiny objects and a brand new Lexus and a bigger house than their neighbor.
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And that's what they work for.
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And when you're working, you're not thinking about life.
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You're not being objective.
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You're not being introspective, not breaking down the world while you're stuck in a fucking
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cubicle.
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All you're doing is working.
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You're a little slave for objects.
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You get home and you're tired and your fucking kids are yapping and little Johnny's been
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smoking a joint.
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God damn it, Johnny, what are you doing?
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Meanwhile, that joint might help that little motherfucker to stop becoming you.
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That joint, that one joint might make him look at his parents and go, oh my God, my
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parents are living in a fucking trap.
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They're trapped in a cage.
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They live in the matrix.
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Like they don't even realize what they're doing.
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One day they're going to die and they're going to be old and used up and they'll have gotten
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nothing out of life.
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Family trips and a fucking softball game every month.
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What is their life?
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It's nothing.
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It's non-existent.
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Those are amazing points.
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I know you need to eat.
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He's being a radio host.
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Alex is two totally different guys.
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This is Alex.
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That's my friend.
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Who's a very interesting guy.
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And then Alex turns it on like black helicopters will come and take your babies.
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And there's Joe, one guy, cool guy.
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But Joe, I try to be the same me all the time, but I do.
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I do lie a little bit.
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I'm not my fear factor.
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I actually do pretend to be a different person.
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Otherwise I would run away screaming.
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I tell you, uh, Joe.
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So I think that moment is really telling.
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Alex is two different people.
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The guy who's Joe's friend and the guy who turns it on to rant about conspiracy shit
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like black helicopters.
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This is such a cutting thing for Joe to say.
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And I really think it sums up the vibe that you get if you watch this whole thing.
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Joe wants Alex to drop the act.
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He's supposed to be getting interviewed for Kevin Booth's drug war documentary and Alex
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has inserted himself into things as a kind of host.
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But Joe seems like he's not able to be himself around that version of Alex.
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He's uncomfortable.
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His body language is very standoffish and there's multiple times that he makes these
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kinds of digs at Alex to the camera, talking directly to the audience or Kevin, probably
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Kevin.
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Sure, sure.
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There's a serious discomfort Joe has with being involved with Alex's character.
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On some level, he has to know that Alex hates what he's saying.
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It's all good to believe in human potential and resent the drudgery of wage slavery, but
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Joe is going a bit further than that.
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He's saying that like family vacations and recreational sports leagues are meaningless,
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which Alex should see as an attack on the family unit.
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Joe is saying that like having kids work in your job and being satisfied by that means
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that there's something wrong with you that would probably be solved by smoking a joint
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and expanding your mind.
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On a fundamental level, this is counter to Alex's belief system, but Joe is one of the
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only celebrities who will hang out with Alex in 2003, so he just lets it stand and say
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that Joe's making great points.
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Yeah.
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This is sad.
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Yeah.
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I, yeah.
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You know, there is the element of freak out the squares that has remained as like a through
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line throughout Joe's career.
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You know?
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That was a really cool guy in the late nineties.
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Right.
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Well, I mean, but even, even to now, it is just that the people who are squares have
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adopted the language of freak out the squares, you know, like they're all look at how freaking
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and look how scared you are of us.
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Nobody's scared.
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You just suck.
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Yeah.
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It's like the Paul Joseph Watson's whole like conservatism is the new punk rock.
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No, it's not.
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No, it is just.
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So not.
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Yeah.
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You've tricked yourself into thinking that this character is that.
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Yeah.
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Like the late nineties guy who's ranting about drugs and expanding a mind to don't be a wage
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slave.
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Yeah.
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Joe feels like there's some kind of countercultural thing that he's doing now.
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That's the evolution of this probably.
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Yeah.
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But it's not, it's just a, it's a, it's a full on betrayal of whatever he was pretending
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to be back then.
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I mean, it is because what this is, what he is representing is not what he thinks he's
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repre, he thinks he's representing a principled stance.
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And what he's really representing is an existence that defines itself in opposition to whatever
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it perceives though the greater culture to appreciate.
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Yes.
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You know, and that's valuable for its own sake.
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Exactly.
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It doesn't matter what I'm saying.
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I am in opposition.
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Yeah.
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There's an immaturity to that position, but it's kind of fun immaturity.
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Yeah.
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For a younger person in the nineties.
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When you're immature.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Although later he does say that he's 36 and that shocked me.
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Oh boy, that is rough.
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In 2003, I mean, he does look good for the, seems like he's a lot younger than he is.
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Yeah.
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Uh, but, but it's still, it, you know, he's the guy from Fear Factor.
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He's the guy from News Radio.
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Like that kind of immaturity is, is that now he's like in his fifties.
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He's too old.
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Yeah.
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You're too old for this.
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I'm too old for this.
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I don't want freak out the squares from my, uh, right wing dumb shit, uh, conspiracy podcaster.
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You can be in Fugazi for four to six years.
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The end.
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Then you got to grow up.
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So Joe has some interesting political positions that he expresses in this conversation.
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They, they're still a fucking mess.
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The people at the highest levels of government are still slaves to government.
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I mean, it's, it's really a bureaucracy.
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It's a machine.
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Of course.
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It's completely out of control.
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It's such a, it's such a huge monster right now.
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It's so completely out of control.
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There's no, how are you going to control it?
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What are you going to do about it?
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How are you ever going to change it?
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It's so fucked up.
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Just the electoral college.
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How about that?
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How about that?
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It just makes you feel so helpless about voting.
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You know, just the, the, the way they process one man, one vote doesn't even exist.
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Look, our whole system is fuck.
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The whole idea that the commission for presidential debates is a privately funded institution.
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So that means the people that are debating on television that are, that are running for
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president that that debate is being funded by the very people who will benefit from only
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certain people being in office.
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Well, Ralph Nader was on the list to speak and they just decided last minute.
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They changed it to 15% where it was 5% before, but then Ross Perot got it.
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It used to be 5% of the popular vote in the polls.
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And then you got to think who the fuck votes in the polls.
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You have to be an idiot to vote in the polls.
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And anyway, you have to be so deep into the whole thing.
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I've never been called for a poll.
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Oh.
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Have you?
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No.
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I don't even know if they exist.
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They might not exist.
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They might be all fake, man.
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Yeah, who knows?
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So I feel like Joe might not really be all that interested in the clear solution to these
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two problems anymore, which would be abolishing the electoral college and public financing
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of political campaigns.
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Yeah, it seems obvious.
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In this election cycle, he arguably made millions of dollars in campaign contributions to Trump
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by having him advance on his show.
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And he's buddied up with Elon, who gave Trump hundreds of millions of dollars for the election.
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Whatever concern he's expressing about the Commission for Presidential Debates being
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a private company, that's not part of his politics anymore at all.
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The Commission on Presidential Debates, it started in 1987.
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And prior to that, the presidential debates were sponsored by the League of Women Voters.
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Prior to JFK and Nixon in 1960, there weren't televised debates.
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And after Nixon came off so bad in that one, there weren't big debates until 1976.
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There was a 16-year lull.
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The CPD is a nonprofit, and it was originally run by co-chairs who were respectively the
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heads of the Democratic and Republican parties.
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It was never meant to include third-party candidates, and the coordination between the
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two parties actually led to the League of Women Voters putting out a press release in
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1988, saying, quote, it has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim
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to add debates to their list of campaign trail charades, devoid of substance, spontaneity,
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and honest answers to tough questions.
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The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American
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public.
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Wow, it's a good thing things have gotten a lot better since then.
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Sure.
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Yep.
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So the H.W. Bush and Dukakis campaigns had agreed to a bunch of demands that they would
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make of the League, including the right to choose who could ask questions and the, quote,
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composition of the audience.
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The League said fuck off, and since then the Commission on Presidential Debates has sponsored
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the events until 2024, when Biden and Trump decided that they didn't want to play along
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with the CPD, and now it's probably dead in the water.
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It's the kind of bullshit that third-party candidates aren't really included, but the
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CPD themselves makes a fairly decent point about it in their about page on their website.
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Quote, candidates for federal office are not required to debate.
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History teaches that it's speculative at best to assume that the leading candidates would
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agree to share the stage with candidates enjoying only scant public support.
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They just kind of get to arbitrarily decide who's a leading candidate, but they're also
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right.
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Political campaigns are a lot about appearances, so you don't want to look like a loser debating
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someone who's polling at 6% when you're like at 45.
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They make it clear that, quote, the CPD's debates are not intended to serve as a springboard
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for a candidate with only scant public support.
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They didn't change their standards to 15% because of Ross Perot.
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They just formalized that as a polling threshold in 2000, justified by an argument that this
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was the threshold that the League of Women Voters used previously.
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Before 2000, they didn't let people in who polled over 5%, and if you go to their website,
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you can find a long list of the people who were on their advisory panel for the pre-2000
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debates and the process they followed.
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It was a lot of discussion about what makes a leading candidate who is relevant, who could
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conceivably win, and matters in terms of the public conversation.
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It's not about the 5 or 15% threshold.
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I mean, ultimately, it's about fighting an old man.
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Either I get my ass kicked by an old man, that's no good, or I beat the shit out of
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an old man, that's no good.
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So why would I debate somebody with 5%?
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That's ridiculous.
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Yeah, and I think that if you have too loose of standards, you're gonna fuck around and
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end up with David Duke making a decent case for why he deserves to be on that stage.
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And I think that's a problem.
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Do you think Ye couldn't have maybe tried to force something if you were required to
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have people who polled over 5% on the debates?
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The obvious reason I would have to dispute that would just be, yeah, to throw them in
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there would be to reveal the parts of the campaigns that they don't want to show you.
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To have David Duke on stage with you might make you start nodding along with David Duke
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and then people, you know what I'm saying?
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Well sure, but that is essentially what the CPD's argument is, is like a leading candidate,
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a relevant candidate wouldn't put themselves in that position.
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So we wouldn't be able to do these debates if we just invited folks like David Duke.
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Right, I mean the problem is fundamentally that they recognize their obsolescence.
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And I think that a decent argument could be made that Ralph Nader was in theory a leading
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candidate in the same way that Ron Paul maybe was a leading candidate.
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I think that you could make a decent argument that they should have included them.
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But the argument that would be successful I don't think follows the same track that
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they're on.
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No.
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So anyway, Joe in 2003 is right about the system being fucked.
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Sure.
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He's wrong about a lot and he accepts easy answers for hard questions.
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But at least it feels like he has momentum heading in the right direction.
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Which it doesn't feel like anymore.
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Feels like he has momentum, but it's not good.
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So Joe hates money and politics.
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Don't we all?
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Yep.
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How much have we just not allowed?
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Just the fact that people are, you're allowed to contribute money, gigantic sums of money,
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huge corporations that would benefit from these people being, it's obvious that it's
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bought and paid for.
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It's so obvious.
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I mean it's so sick.
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The whole situation is so tough.
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So where's it going the next five years?
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It's not going to get any better.
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I'm praying for a meteor.
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I think we need a meteor that wipes out about 60% of the people on the planet.
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You know, that's like the only way we're going to survive.
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I don't know, man.
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You know, it's just, I think just enjoy yourself and try to have fun.
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I don't know how much we're going to change.
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I should remind you that Joe had Trump and Vance on his podcast for softball interviews
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and has made a practice of helping launder the reputations of billionaires who gave vast
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sums of money to Trump's campaign.
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Whereas once Joe thought that this excessive money in politics was an unsolvable problem
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that could only be solved by a meteor hitting the earth.
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Now he's stupid rich and he's friends with a bunch of the people who profit from continuing
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that unsolvable problem.
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Crazy how that works.
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Joe made a choice.
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Yeah.
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Also Alex should be really mad about this kind of exterminationist talk.
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The world's problems could be solved by killing 60% of the population?
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That sounds downright globalist.
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It does sound very globalist.
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I guess it's fine from Joe though cause he's on Fear Factor.
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Well now it even, it makes even more sense since he will have an underground redoubt.
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Is that what I'm under?
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Is that what we understand here?
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Yeah, probably.
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And Alex will get a little invite.
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Alex will, but then Alex can't go under there because we know the zombies are going to pull
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them out and eat them.
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Yeah.
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And Alex wants to be part of the eaters.
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Right.
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He wants to be a zombie.
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Yeah.
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He's going to eat his neighbor's ass.
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All right.
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Okay.
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So, um, this was awesome.
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This next clip is awesome.
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Joe wants wealth redistribution.
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Of course he does.
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And to kill conservatives.
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Hey!
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Our whole culture is a mess.
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The only thing that would cure our culture is a mass global enlightenment.
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I mean, how's that going to happen?
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I mean, everyone has to do DMT and mushrooms every day for a month, you know, and we have
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to, you know, uh, uh, evenly distribute wealth and you have to educate all the fucking poor
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communities.
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You have to stop dumb people from having children.
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That's never going to stop.
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You're going to, you're going to have to figure out a way to raise the children of ignorant
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people and, uh, and give them some sort of a hope for life.
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You know, that's not gonna, that's not going to happen.
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So what are you going to do?
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You're going to have to take insecure guys and break them free of all their control issues
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so they don't become conservatives and Republicans.
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Well, that's not going to happen.
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You know how hard it is.
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You know how hard it is.
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Of course.
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But you know how hard, but they're not social controls.
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They're, they're, they're trying to control things in a different way.
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I mean, do you know how hard it is to change someone's life?
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It's virtually impossible.
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So you would have to kill every conservative or, or enlighten them.
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The possibility of enlightening them is so slim.
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But Joe, this whole left, right thing, I mean, I mean, there is no left, right.
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But I'm talking about controlling people's behavior.
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I'm not talking about conservative in a, in a common sense of the word.
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I'm talking about it in a sense of, you know, all the time I was worried about other people,
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all these gays trying to have marriages, you know, and someone saying, oh, you know,
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you know, how was that Hillary Clinton, how the hell she, all that kind of crazy shit.
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You know, people worrying about gays, people worry about specific ethnic groups, people
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treating people other as anything other than individuals.
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If you don't stop that, what do you think about the whole Arnold election?
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Why not?
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I mean, it's happening today.
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I'm down for him.
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He's a guy who lifts weights and did drugs and likes to fuck chicks.
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Put them in.
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All right.
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I mean, why, why not anybody else?
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Why him over anybody else?
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Why anybody else over him?
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It's all the same.
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They're all completely full of shit.
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You know, I mean, he's one of those mackerel.
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So that clip right there is shocking.
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Joe is discussing his views.
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Cause one of them wasn't mackerel.
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Right.
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One of them squid.
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Oh shit.
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Unagi!
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So Joe is discussing his views on how to fix our totally fucked up society.
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And he thinks everyone needs to do a bunch of DMT.
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Wealth needs to be redistributed.
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We need to institute eugenic policies and insecure men need to be taught how to let
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go so they don't become conservative.
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Alex should throw a swing at him after something like that, but his brand is so fragile in
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2003 and the whole, I'm not a conservative like you think that is so important to Alex
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having any relevance.
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So he has to hear Joe say shit that's heretical to him.
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And he responds by asking about Arnold Schwarzenegger's run for governor.
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Apparently Joe doesn't know that Alex was one of the largest opponents of Arnold's campaign.
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And I'm sure that Alex was hoping for a different answer or an ability to throw to commercial.
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Because that's not good.
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No.
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I think that clip is so breathtaking because Joe is talking about Alex when he describes
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the person who's holding us back.
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When he clarifies who he's calling a conservative, he might have as well have been doing an Alex
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impression.
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So you would have to kill every conservative or enlighten them.
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The possibility of enlighten them is so slammed.
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Joe, this whole left right thing, I mean, there is no left right.
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But I'm talking about controlling people's behavior.
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I'm not talking about conservative in a common sense of the word.
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I'm talking about it in a sense of, you know, all these gays trying to have marriages, you
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know, and someone saying, oh, you know, you know, how is that Hillary Clinton?
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All that kind of crazy shit.
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I don't think that Joe realizes that he's condemning Alex to his own face and Alex is
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just taking it because he wants to hang out with a celebrity.
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But it's kind of insane to imagine that their friendship is based on this much of a false
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premise and so little information on Joe's part.
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It's, I mean, what he's saying is essentially you need to evolve or die to Alex.
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You need to let go of all of this bullshit that is so important to you, like being concerned
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about gay people getting married, your obsession with Hillary Clinton, your fears about other
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ethnic groups.
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He's saying these are things you must let go of and you never will.
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So society can't move forward unless we kill you.
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That's it.
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That's I wonder about that.
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I wonder about the interesting after that.
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Right.
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Because if what Joe is expressing is true, that they cannot change, then what has happened
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is a result of that.
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And that is that essentially Joe has changed to Alex.
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So by proximity of one person not being able to change, if you want to continue to be around
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the unchangeable, you yourself must change.
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And therefore we get where we get.
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I think some of that is probably true.
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I think some of that's a little bit true.
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And then I also think that some of what Joe's doing here is an act.
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Absolutely.
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And I think that he doesn't have a solid grounding in a lot of the positions that he has or a
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lot of these beliefs.
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A lot of it is adolescent bullshit.
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Like Arnold Schwarzenegger gets his dick sucked so he should be governor.
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It's childish, immature shit that doesn't have a basis in any concern for what would
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Arnold do as governor?
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What are the differences between him and some other candidate?
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And I think because there's no roots to it, there's no foundation, it's easy to change
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this person.
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This person will change without even knowing it.
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Yeah.
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Well, they're just going to say whatever is...
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When he says we need to abolish the electoral college, it's identical to Alex saying blah,
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blah, blah.
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Well, it's because we're in 2000.
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Right.
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It doesn't mean anything.
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Yeah.
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It's not like, oh, okay, now I'm going to help.
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It's the summer of rage.
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That's all it is.
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He doesn't actually care.
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He's just saying the things that get you to react the way he wants you to.
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Yeah.
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What will sort of build up the brand that he's seeking to cultivate.
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Right.
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That brand is really cool in the late 90s, early 2000s.
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And I understand exactly why you take on this standup character and persona.
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But yeah, because it didn't grow up, it's changed by malign forces.
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Yeah, too.
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If you were to describe that era as the attitude era all across the board, as in like it is
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more about looking like this big than it is about being that.
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You know?
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Well, I think that in terms of wrestling, that's good.
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Right.
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They weren't all that.
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Well, it was-
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Because there'd be a lot of murderers on the loose.
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It was good for Joe's career too, you know?
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To appear to be something and then it just continues to appear.
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You just change what you appear like.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Especially when opportunities arise that are very, very lucrative.
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It does.
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You know, it's tough to look down the barrel of a hundred million dollar gun and go like,
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well, I wouldn't take that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I hope I never know.
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Me too.
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Yeah.
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So Joe says some great shit in this next clip.
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You know, the problem isn't something that can be fixed.
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The problem has so much to do with our diets.
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It has so much to do with the way we take care of our bodies.
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It has so much to do with what we put into our minds.
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It has so much to do with education and the hundreds of years of education and lives that
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have been perpetrated on the people in our culture from the beginning of our culture.
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From the beginning of this, the birth of this country has been completely full of shit.
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I mean, our country was founded by a bunch of people who were fucking religious fanatics.
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They wanted to own slaves, but they wanted to be free.
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You know what I mean?
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That Puritan ethics still fucks us up to this day.
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Joe, I got to tell you this.
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I mean, you've said a lot of things I agree with, but at the same time, I think you're
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oversimplifying a lot of the founding fathers.
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I mean- Fuck the founding fathers.
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They were idiots too.
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Hold on.
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I know.
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Nobody's perfect, but you can point back.
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You can point back.
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I'm just saying what we're talking about is how do you fix it?
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I mean, certainly- But don't point back.
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Let's say how do you fix it?
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How do you fix it?
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You can't.
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You can't.
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It's too fucked up.
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Dude, it's too fucked up.
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The best you could do is enlighten people on how fucked up it is.
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All I was trying to do is analyze something you said there and to get your response from
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it.
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It was slavery still going on all over the world.
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Most of the founding fathers were against slavery and then released-
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Well, I don't know that.
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I didn't meet the founding fathers.
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I don't think you did either.
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What about Thomas Jefferson?
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There's no video.
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He talks about liberty and freedom?
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History's filled with lies.
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Who knows?
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George Bush talks about liberty and freedom.
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He's totally full of shit.
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We're fighting the axis of evil.
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Let me tell you something.
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You cannot trust anything history says.
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You can't just say anything.
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I like listening to this version of Rogan because he's right about so much and wrong
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about so much, but he's coming at it fairly coherently.
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This at least seems like a person who can exist.
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This is a persona that fits.
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He's right that our country is completely fucked up because the entire time we've existed,
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we've tried to be two contradictory things at the same time.
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We're slave owners who love freedom.
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We lied to ourselves to rationalize some of the awful shit that we were doing, and history
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is never really fully reckoned with that history, and that lives on.
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He's right about not putting the founding fathers on some kind of pedestal and about
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how their words should be scrutinized in the same way that a modern figure should be.
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They're just as capable of lying as Bush, so it's dumb to take things at face value.
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That kind of stuff is all good, and it's nice to hear.
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But this conclusion he comes to where you can't trust history and everything is bullshit
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is so bad.
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History is a tool, and just like any other tool, its value is dependent on how you use
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it.
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We don't have a perfect record of everything that's happened from completely objective
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sources, so the practice of understanding pieces of history involves learning about
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context and how things fit together and what certain events can tell us about how people
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interacted with those events in history.
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He doesn't believe this.
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Joe doesn't believe that.
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It's just a cool thing for him to say, for this character to say.
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If you really believe that you can't trust anything from history, then you're kind of
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in a position where anything outside of your subjective experience is entirely unknowable,
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and I don't think Joe would defend that.
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Also, you just told me like 30 different things from fucking history.
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So I don't trust your dumb ass.
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What are we talking about here?
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Are you just wasting my time?
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You told me about the Decorticator earlier.
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What are you doing?
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I feel like I want to give him a pass and say that he's phrasing these things like a
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comic might, because I think there is a little bit of that dynamic.
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But it also sounds really dumb.
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It sounds like the, we believe in nothing from The Big Lebowski.
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We believe in nothing!
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And it's like, oh fine, you're nihilists, I guess, whatever.
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Sure.
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Go away.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:28.699)
Yeah, but I think the articulation of it and the way he's trying to come off is in line
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with like, I'm a performer, history's bullshit, man.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:36.699)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Cool, sexy nihilism.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:38.699)
Yeah, but he wouldn't defend that history is all full of shit if pressed on it.
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I mean, you gotta get through the day.
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Yeah, and that's why I give it a pass.
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It's an embellishment for comedic effect.
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Sure, sure, sure, sure.
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Whatever, but it sounds stupid, because he's trying to be all so serious at the same time.
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So Alex is like, hey man, the founding fathers are pretty cool.
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And mic down for this, because this is a mic down sort of moment.
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This is one of the finest moments I've encountered.
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Well this is all I'm saying about the founding fathers is that they weren't, I mean, to some
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of our standards they were bad, but they were light years ahead.
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Who knows?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:14.500)
Who knows?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:15.500)
They were light years ahead of all brother writings.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:16.500)
They were light years ahead of a lot of people behind them.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:19.579)
That's what I'm saying, they were brain-based.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:20.579)
They weren't light years ahead of Buddhists.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:22.460)
They weren't light years ahead of Tibetan monks.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:24.860)
They weren't light years ahead of a lot of people.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:26.659)
But they got slavery all over those countries controlled by the Buddhists.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:28.659)
They're controlled by the, I mean, yeah, there's slavery all over the place.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:33.219)
And it's controlled by the Buddhist monks?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:34.579)
No, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:36.699)
I've got the documents to prove it.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:37.940)
If you go to my website, Infowars.com, I'll show you the Buddhist monks controlled slavery
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and prostitution and heroin use.
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Actually the Buddhist monks did help Hitler.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:49.460)
That's true.
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They had Tibetan monks, they're chanting for him, trying to defeat him.
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That's actually typed in, that's even on the commission.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:57.500)
I thought you said they tried to help him.
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They tried to help Hitler.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:59.500)
Well, they were trying to defeat him.
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You support, no, you support Tibetan monks, you support Hitler.
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No, no, I'm serious, Joe.
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They, because Hitler was in the Eastern Miss Assistant, he paid to have a bunch of Tibetan
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monks come there and they found a bunch of them dead in the bunker with him.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:15.500)
You guys?
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They found a bunch of Tibetan monks dead in the bunker with Hitler.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:19.980)
They found a bunker next door, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:20.980)
I thought they didn't even find the Tibetan monks.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:22.980)
They got him outside with gasoline on him, burnt.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:25.980)
Yeah, the bunker was right there at the right.
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So it was a little shaky.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:28.980)
A little shaky, ladies and gentlemen.
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I'm going to have to turn the A game on in a minute.
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This is the Alex Jones problem.
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I'm about to turn the A game on.
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Alex Jones is a very smart man with a lot of information as a sous-soul.
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However, sometimes he doesn't have the answer, so he will just make some shit up.
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Hey Joe, I told you 24 months ago about 9-11.
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Do you believe in things?
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24 months?
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What did you tell me?
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I told you about 9-11, the government behind it.
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Well, 24 months ago 9-11 happened.
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I think everybody knew about it.
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So if you're Joe and you know that periodically Alex will make things up and try to confidently
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pass them off as true pieces of information that he knows from study, Alex should immediately
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become someone you don't take seriously.
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He's a compulsive liar who has no problem misleading you when it serves his ego to do so.
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Who gives a fuck about the supposed vast amount of information he has at his disposal?
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Because of his behavior, you can never really know if anything he's saying is true or something
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he's making up to slip out of an argument that he's losing.
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I mean this fairly sincerely.
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I don't think that Joe likes Alex very much.
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I could believe that Joe has no idea what Alex thinks and has no interest in watching
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his show to find out.
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He's been sold the lie that Alex is some kind of counterculture guy who's above the left-right
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paradigm.
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That's enough for him.
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I get the sense that if Joe knew that Alex was a religious zealot who hated gay people
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and thought he was on a mission from God to fight the literal devil, they might not actually
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have been friends at this point.
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Probably not.
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When Alex says that there were Tibetan monks who were found at Hitler's bunker, he's signaling
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to hollow-earth-type conspiracies.
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According to many hollow-earth folks, Tibetans have a connection to the inner-world society
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Shambhala and Agartha.
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And it was important for Hitler to maintain good relations with them so he could maintain
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this link.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:17.380)
That makes sense.
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The people in the inner-earth, they have secret powers and all that stuff.
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Obviously.
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So he wanted to get access to those things and the Tibetan monks were his best shot.
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That makes sense.
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In a crushing moment to be captured on film, Joe reveals that Alex is playing games and
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that Joe knows it.
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Alex is a compulsive liar and for whatever reason, Joe hasn't considered that a deal-breaker
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for the last 22 years.
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That is such a damning little thing there.
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That's the Alex Jones problem.
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He makes shit up.
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It is an incredible thing.
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I guess they're just these type of people and you can have those type of people, I guess.
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But if somebody's like in a conversation with me and we are having an actual discussion
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and then they're just like, you know, Tibetan monks were in with Hitler.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:05.219)
I'd be like, why are we doing any of this then?
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You go away.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:08.860)
Now, if you tell me that is a non sequitur, then I'm not going to be as mad at you making
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it up.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:15.500)
However, if you pull it out as defense for your claim that the founding fathers were
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awesome and that I have rebutted it by saying they weren't as great as Tibetan monks.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:26.579)
If you then make this up to justify the rebuttal that I've made to your argument, then I
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think that that's a different kind of lie.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:37.460)
Well, it's a manipulate.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:38.900)
It's far more manipulative of a lie.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:41.460)
It shows that you don't operate in good faith conversationally.
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I mean, fundamentally, it is then a power thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:51.019)
It's just not about whatever we're talking about.
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There's no point in us talking about things.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:54.980)
We should be arm wrestling.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:55.980)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:56.980)
That's what you would prefer because you win.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:59.260)
You know, it's that's what I'm saying is Alex.
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It's clear that Joe knows that Alex is willing to lie when his ego needs to.
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He needs to maintain this idea that he has all the information and he knows everything.
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When that's threatened, he'll lie.
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He just lies.
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Because of that, nothing is trustworthy.
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Now, I have known compulsive liars in my time.
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If I knew that someone was a compulsive liar like this, I would never put them in a position
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where their positions could be taken seriously.
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I would never try to launder their reputation and try and make them, hey, they're actually
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right about a bunch of stuff because you're going to explicitly get people to believe
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lies.
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I don't know if I've ever known a compulsive liar.
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Or I mean, I've known of them, but I don't know.
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I've never had a friend who is a compulsive liar because probably I'm the type of person
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who would be like, oh, you're a compulsive liar.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:59.179)
Well, now your nickname is blank the compulsive liar.
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That's it.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:02.860)
There's no reason for me to...
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That's who you are.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:07.340)
That's why I can't be friends with that.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:08.739)
Well, I think that a lot of times it takes a while to figure out.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:12.860)
You may make a friendship before you figure out some of this stuff.
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I don't know.
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I think that Joe is too aware.
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Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.
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Of what he's around and who he's with.
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He knows that Alex is full of shit.
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It's something that you shouldn't have 22 years later.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:38.099)
It is so close to the John Lennon 7 and he walks by a guitar shop and he's like, oh,
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I'm going to have one of those someday.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:45.619)
You know, all that.
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This is horrifying.
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This should cause problems for somebody.
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Somewhere along the line, somebody should be like, oh, well, because this exists, a
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thing must happen now.
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Honestly, I think that John Lennon walking past a guitar when he's seven or something
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like that would be this existing, but Alex coming off really well.
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And him convincing Joe of a bunch of points.
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Because then it's like, oh, hey, there's the guitar and the seed of whatever in my seven
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year old brain comes to bloom in 25 or whatever.
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But this is like, I don't know.
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I don't even know how to make the Lennon metaphor work.
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I was going at it from the other direction.
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This is Rogan seeing who he's going to become.
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But the guitar is aspirational.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:38.019)
Sure.
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Joe understands that what he's looking at is shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:43.059)
Yeah, I suppose I was thinking more of an inevitability to it.
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But whatever.
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It's grim.
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The point is, this is fucked up.
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It is fucked up.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:52.099)
This is ghosts of Christmas past shit.
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You're not supposed to actually live a Christmas carol.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:57.380)
No.
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So there are a couple moments, though, where Joe, I think he comes off okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:01.780)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:02.099)
There's some moments where there's a little bit of introspection.
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And one of them is here where he's talking about this idea that he has where shit's just
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fucked, man.
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And he realizes how people will hear that.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:16.099)
It's fairly defeatist.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:18.179)
It sounds like it's too fucked up.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:21.380)
There's nothing to do about it.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:23.380)
I don't want to waste my life trying to fix some shit that I can't fix.
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What I do want, I want people to be aware that you can't fix it.
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I want the people to be aware how crazy life really is.
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This is what I tell people all the time.
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If you ever think you've got a grip on life, if you ever think you know what the fuck is
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up, I want you to go outside and I want you to look straight up and you realize there's
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100 billion stars in this galaxy.
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This is one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe.
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All structure is an illusion.
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All society is an illusion.
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It's all we are talking monkeys on a rock spinning around in space and that's it.
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That's the standard planet orbiting a standard sun two thirds of the way out on the spiral
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arm of the Milky Way galaxy.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:06.420)
Yeah, but bottom line is real.
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That's it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:09.860)
This whole, this whole, you know, concept of what's real and what's not real and what
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you're supposed to do, what you're not supposed to do.
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It's completely artificial.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:17.380)
Let me just say no one has any idea what the fuck is all about.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:20.420)
We have now though, if people wouldn't have fought against thugs and against tyrants.
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So to say, give up.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:26.340)
I mean, we still have, I mean, black folks are still be pulling the plow.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:30.579)
I'm not saying you said that, but you're saying, you know, you know, screw it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:33.219)
It's only going to get worse.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:34.019)
You can't stop it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:34.739)
I'm talking about voting.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:36.900)
Talking about, but I think speaking out, putting your ideas out, we don't put it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:40.739)
Talking about egg rolls.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:41.780)
Exactly.
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We didn't get a chance to vote for whether or not we wanted to go to war.
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If we voted, the United States had a chance to vote.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:48.179)
That's what it's supposed to be about, man.
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I agree.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:51.139)
Can I get another Diet Coke?
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So there's been a miscarriage of judges.
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I'm going to support this big, major corporation that fucking goes overseas.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:57.139)
With aspartame and deadly poison.
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Deadly poison if you're a fucking pussy.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:02.420)
I could eat aspartame for lunch, dude.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:06.260)
Show them right there.
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Ladies and gentlemen, that's aspartame training.
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It was revealed today that Joe Rogan had been taking aspartame.
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Secondhand smoke, man.
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I said, if you get cancer from secondhand smoke, you're a fucking pussy.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:19.059)
So this is a direct affront to all of Alex's beliefs.
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We are not monkeys on a rock.
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We're created by God and we have obligations to our ancestors to protect the white race or the west,
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if you prefer to use that term.
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Alex should hate Joe.
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I think Joe doesn't like Alex that much based on the way they're interacting,
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but Alex should fucking hate Joe based on the things that he's expressing.
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And I suspect that if he didn't host Fear Factor or wasn't willing to be seen in public with Alex,
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these beliefs that he's expressing would be a huge problem.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:51.380)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:52.019)
Also, when Joe says that thing about secondhand smoke at the end there,
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I'm pretty sure it's a continuation of an axe that he has to grind with
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Dennis Leary for stealing material.
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Earlier he tried to make a joke about Leary,
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and I think this is him trying to play around with Alex, and I don't know if Alex gets it.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:06.340)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:06.980)
Because that is a Dennis Leary bit that I think people accuse him of stealing.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:12.340)
Here's that whole big smoking chunk.
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Right, right, right, right.
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I love smoking.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:16.579)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:18.579)
I watched that last night because I was reminded of it from this, and it doesn't hold up.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:26.420)
No?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:26.920)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:27.619)
I mean, you can tell why he went on to star as a fireman.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:31.699)
There's a lot of impressions of someone with a throat tracheotomy.
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Oh boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:36.500)
That's solid stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:37.780)
That'll get him.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:39.219)
Time somebody who took down the trachs.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:41.860)
You know what I'm saying?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:42.820)
They've been having it too good for too long.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:44.900)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:45.800)
So Joe has pushed back a bit on Alex.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:49.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:50.119)
And I think that Alex is in a position where he's like,
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ugh, I gotta smooth this over a little bit.
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And so Joe's talking about something he saw on TV,
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and Alex's actions I think are really illuminating.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:04.280)
You know what, man?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:06.199)
You know, Hitler burnt the Reichstag, Miro burnt Rome.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:10.199)
I was watching a documentary the other day with these Japanese
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guys set something on fire, and they were blaming on the Chinese in the 1920s.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:20.279)
Really?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:20.779)
They wanted to go to war with China.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:21.560)
What was that event?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:22.119)
I need that.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:22.840)
It was on the History Channel.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:24.039)
I didn't know that.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:24.920)
It was just on a few days ago about the Semiram.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:27.880)
See?
Unknown Speaker (01:08:28.279)
You got to just tell me something.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:29.880)
Well, I wish I wrote it down.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:31.000)
I was in my hotel room, and I was just like, people are just fucked.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:34.039)
I just watched this.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:34.840)
I'm like, we've always been like this.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:35.880)
We love war.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:37.079)
So this is a very transparent move on Alex's part to pretend that
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Joe just brought him some valuable information.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:43.560)
It's a form of flattery, where Alex's value is in digging up the truth,
Unknown Speaker (01:08:47.399)
and Joe has made a contribution to that.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:49.960)
Apparently, he saw something on the History Channel about some Japanese people burning
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something as a means of blaming the Chinese.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:55.880)
This is great.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:56.680)
Joe's done some research for him.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:58.920)
Alex either knows about what Joe is talking about, or else this reveals that Alex is a
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complete fraud.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:04.279)
This is in reference to the Mukden incident from 1931, where the Japanese government attempted
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to blow up a train to blame the Chinese to justify an invasion.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:14.119)
They fucked it up, and the explosion wasn't strong enough to blow up the train, and the
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plot was fairly quickly unraveled.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:19.800)
This is a big deal, and it led to Japan having to leave the League of Nations, so it's pretty
Unknown Speaker (01:09:25.000)
weird to imagine that Alex doesn't know about this.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:28.600)
It strongly feels like Alex has just been completely emasculated by Joe, saying that
Unknown Speaker (01:09:32.680)
he makes things up when he doesn't know correct information, so Alex is trying to win him
Unknown Speaker (01:09:36.840)
back over with this little pat on the head.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:39.000)
This is what Alex responds to, this sort of affirmation, and I think he's trying to
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blind Joe with like, oh my god, you did so good.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:50.039)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:50.840)
And I don't think that Joe fully responds the same way that Alex does to flattery.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:57.319)
Yeah, it is very much like, I guess carrot and stick is the only way to perceive a conversation.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:09.560)
Not like, you're a person and I'm a person.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:12.279)
It's how do I get your actions to line up with what I want them to be, you know?
Unknown Speaker (01:10:18.359)
Yeah, with Alex especially.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:20.359)
It's the pat on the head, or I'm gonna yell you're a sneaky snake.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:22.920)
Yep, yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:23.720)
That's the...
Unknown Speaker (01:10:24.279)
That's it.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:25.319)
I'm gonna say I can gut you like a pig, or I'm going to be like, he's the smartest man
Unknown Speaker (01:10:30.039)
I've ever seen, he's the most important, you know.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:31.640)
Oh my god, I never knew about these Japanese people trying to burn something to blame the
Unknown Speaker (01:10:35.000)
Chinese, oh my god.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:36.279)
Thank god you were in your hotel.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:37.479)
Oh, you're a miracle, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:39.479)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:40.199)
So they get onto the subject of JFK, because of course they do.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:44.359)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:44.840)
And, you know, they talk about, of course, the Northwoods, Operation Northwoods, that
Unknown Speaker (01:10:49.800)
document, and he fucking killed Kennedy.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:52.279)
They did.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:53.000)
And then what was it, the Northwoods document?
Unknown Speaker (01:10:55.000)
Is that what it was?
Unknown Speaker (01:10:55.720)
Yeah, calls for a US government plan to carry out terror attacks.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:59.159)
And what was that, it was in 1962?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:01.079)
And Kennedy said no and got whacked a few months later.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:04.439)
They whacked that dude for a bunch of reasons, because he really thought he was the president.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:08.119)
Well no, that's it.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:09.319)
I mean, he'd been a big hawk and everything.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:11.239)
That's what's interesting about Kennedy, he was all for him, you know, big military,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:15.239)
actually cut taxes by half, he was almost, he was like a real conservative on a lot of
Unknown Speaker (01:11:18.680)
issues.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:20.039)
Again, they scrambled all the terms, but he cut taxes by half, beefed up the military,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:24.199)
yeah, these communists kicked their ass.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:25.800)
When they came to him with Northwoods, and I said it in my film, but it just came out
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even on the front line.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:30.840)
And when he came out and said, when they came to him and said, we want to kill US troops,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:35.319)
we want to hijack jets, we want to blow stuff up in DC, he said, that's it, I'll abolish
Unknown Speaker (01:11:39.239)
him, the CIA, we're pulling out of Vietnam, I'm cutting military funding, we're not going
Unknown Speaker (01:11:43.319)
to Cuba anymore, and they just freaked.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:45.479)
I mean, they were so radical, they came to him with that plan to kill US citizens, he
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said, I won't do it.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:49.960)
How great it would have been if Kennedy had a speech, he had a State of the Union speech,
Unknown Speaker (01:11:55.800)
and he just addressed all those issues.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:58.039)
How great it would have been if he got on television and talked about what the CIA really
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does.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:02.840)
That's why they got him.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:03.560)
What he tries to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:04.600)
Great point, Joe.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:05.079)
I don't remember that, that McKinney said the other night.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:06.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:07.340)
Well, two weeks before he was killed, he was at American University and he gave a speech,
Unknown Speaker (01:12:12.039)
he said, soon I'm going to be exposing the greatest evil ever, our government's been
Unknown Speaker (01:12:15.079)
taking over, it's a famous speech you can find online.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:17.319)
And he said, this darkness is out of control, we're going to stop it, and he was going to
Unknown Speaker (01:12:22.119)
give a State of the Union about it, he was going to talk about it in the campaign.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:25.960)
But you're right, he should have done it boom, right up front.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:28.119)
Well, you know, that might have been the last hope.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:31.319)
You know, I mean, maybe that was just romanticizing it then, maybe he had no hope even then.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:35.560)
Where did your instinct go about Alex making things up, Joe, because you just accepted
Unknown Speaker (01:12:40.199)
that one.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:41.159)
So JFK gave the commencement address at American University on June 10, 1963, and he was killed
Unknown Speaker (01:12:46.840)
on November 22, so it wasn't two weeks before.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:49.960)
Alex is doing the old Alex thing, fudging details to be more interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:54.600)
Ironically, if Joe would listen to that speech, he might get some inspiration about the hopelessness
Unknown Speaker (01:12:59.479)
he seems to be feeling about politics and life.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:29.479)
Alex is just making shit up about this Kennedy speech, which is mostly about a desire for
Unknown Speaker (01:13:41.000)
peace with the Soviet Union, and touching on things of like, we can't demonize the people
Unknown Speaker (01:13:46.199)
of the Soviet Union, that is the worst thing we can do, is see all of them as our enemies.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:51.800)
But also, it's weird that Joe doesn't have that same history as old bullshit take on
Unknown Speaker (01:13:56.439)
Kennedy.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.000)
It is strange.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.720)
Seems like he takes a lot of that shit on face value.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:59.880)
Very simply put, he likes what he hears.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:03.399)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:03.640)
And that means it's true.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:04.680)
Don't need to be so critical.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:05.960)
He doesn't like what he hears, and that means it's false.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.920)
Oh.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:09.319)
It's very simple.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:10.520)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:10.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:11.479)
That's crazy.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:12.439)
That's not good.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:13.479)
That's probably not good.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:16.039)
So when I was listening to this, I did have one thought, and that was that Joe was making
Unknown Speaker (01:14:21.720)
me want to smoke weed.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:23.560)
Oh, I was thinking I'm starting to get a little hungry for some sushi.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:26.760)
Oh, sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:27.319)
I mean, I do apologize if there's anyone who's sensitive to chewing sounds.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:33.479)
But I was listening to this, and I'm like, fuck, yeah, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:36.920)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:37.399)
Weed.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:37.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:38.520)
It's so cool.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:39.640)
Do it.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:40.199)
Weed is cool.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:41.239)
Weed is cool.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:42.119)
What marijuana does, its gift is it offers you an enhanced view of the world.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:47.560)
It spreads your consciousness.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:50.600)
It helps you absolve your ego.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:53.239)
It helps you keep your ego in check and actually calm it and give you a more balanced and
Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.319)
objective perspective on the world.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:01.399)
It does.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:02.760)
People think marijuana makes me stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:04.840)
It hasn't made me stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.279)
It made me smarter.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:07.399)
It made me more aware.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:08.520)
It made me a better comedian.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:09.960)
In the three years since I just started smoking pot, my material has gotten so much deeper
Unknown Speaker (01:15:14.199)
and richer and more in depth, and I enjoy it more.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:17.319)
I enjoy life more.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:18.439)
I've changed the way I look at things.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:20.520)
I've gotten out of so many traps of confinement of these predetermined patterns of behavior
Unknown Speaker (01:15:26.359)
that people find themselves in, and we do it just because everyone else is doing it.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:29.800)
Well, me smoking pot made me realize that a lot of these things, we're just connecting
Unknown Speaker (01:15:35.000)
the dots because we're insecure, and we're not looking at what's really healthy and what
Unknown Speaker (01:15:39.720)
really feels good and what's really natural and what really helps you enjoy your life.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:45.000)
We're just doing it because we think that's what we're supposed to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:48.039)
You live a trap, and weed makes you aware of that, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:51.800)
Marijuana makes you very aware of everything around you.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:55.479)
People call it being paranoid, but it's not paranoia.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:59.079)
Life really does suck that bad for most people, and when you get high and you get paranoid,
Unknown Speaker (01:16:04.520)
what's happening is all the bullshit is stripped away.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:08.680)
The bullshit veneer that most people cover their lives in just so they can fucking get
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by, just so they can wake up when that goddamn alarm clock goes off.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:15.800)
That shit strips away when you smoke pot, and you are all of a sudden alone with your
Unknown Speaker (01:16:20.520)
thoughts and the reality of the world, the reality of the universe.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:23.960)
And for most people, that's way too much to deal with.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:26.359)
They would rather have alcohol.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:27.640)
They would rather dull it down.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:29.479)
That's one of the reasons why everyone's afraid of marijuana, and that's one of the
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reasons why marijuana can help everyone.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:35.399)
Everyone should be forced to smoke pot.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:38.119)
You should be forced.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:39.319)
Not forced, obviously.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:40.520)
You should be encouraged.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:41.800)
You should be encouraged.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:42.840)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:43.960)
I remember feeling like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:46.199)
I remember being young.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.520)
I thought that was so fucking funny.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:50.439)
But he's not young.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:52.760)
Well, I think that he's young.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:56.359)
You know how people say that they're young in the faith or whatever when they're-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:00.039)
That's what it is, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:00.920)
He's three years into smoking weed.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.000)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.500)
He's a born-again Christian.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:04.920)
That's what he's doing.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:05.720)
He's doing the thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:07.079)
He's doing the thing that everybody does whenever they make a massive life change in their early
Unknown Speaker (01:17:11.079)
30s.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:11.640)
Yeah, but I remember also having that mentality about weed when I was young.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:16.520)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:17.239)
I'm not attacking weed.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:18.359)
I think it can be incorporated into people's lives.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:21.079)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:21.579)
Totally fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:22.199)
People respond to it differently.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:23.720)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:24.439)
Some people like it, some don't.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.199)
Neither should feel ashamed of either.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:28.840)
But I remember being young and thinking like, this is free in my mind, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:33.960)
This is my medicine.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:36.359)
And it was not.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:38.119)
It was-
Unknown Speaker (01:17:39.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:39.819)
That was a fun story to tell myself because I really enjoyed being high and it gave me
Unknown Speaker (01:17:46.619)
kind of feeling of being deeper, more introspective than the people around me.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:51.420)
And maybe that was an illusion that I enjoyed.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:54.699)
Maybe a little bit.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:56.300)
I mean, you know, you'll get over it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:59.100)
That's probably the truth that we should bundle all other truths underneath is just like,
Unknown Speaker (01:18:04.859)
I know it seems important right now, but you'll probably get over it in five to 10 years.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:09.180)
And then you'll be doing something else.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:10.539)
It's okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:11.180)
You'll be fine.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.140)
And I think that this, Rogan, the reason that this is good or this person is compelling
Unknown Speaker (01:18:20.460)
is because he's speaking to people who are in where they're at.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:27.100)
If you're somebody who's early in smoking weed or whatever, you'd be like,
Unknown Speaker (01:18:30.699)
this guy fucking gets it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:32.779)
This guy gets it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:34.220)
And that is maybe important.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:36.859)
He's articulating some things that you're experiencing.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.020)
And, you know, maybe you'll, or maybe you should grow out of some of the perspectives
Unknown Speaker (01:18:47.180)
that he's expressing, but also they can be an important part of the path.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:52.699)
I always thought about Linkin Park as being like, these people are making fantastic music for teens.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:00.539)
Like this is really, this really does hit on something about adolescence that like you're
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going through.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:09.819)
And I thought that was a really remarkable ability that they had.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:14.460)
And maybe if you're an adult and you're listening to it, you don't have the same connection to it.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:21.899)
That doesn't devalue what the music is.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:24.380)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:24.779)
And I think that Rogan's the same thing for like young pot smokers.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:28.380)
Well, that's the problem is that he remains that thing for the young idiots.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:33.739)
They've not grown out of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:37.659)
That is the problem.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:38.539)
With him.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:39.579)
They've grown stable with him or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:42.699)
The hope is that this is able to be a part of your growing to the next step of your life
Unknown Speaker (01:19:49.420)
and getting through whatever this is speaking to.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:52.939)
But it also ends up being a trap when it's your brand in the way that Rogan has made this.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:59.579)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:59.739)
There's a certain amount of like the test of the small town to it.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:04.140)
There's a certain amount of that patent bit where it's like either you get a job and I'm
Unknown Speaker (01:20:09.739)
going to fill my truck up for free or you go, I'm getting the fuck out of here.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:13.899)
And that is kind of a...
Unknown Speaker (01:20:16.060)
And Joe got the fuck out of there when a hundred million dollars was offered to him.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:20.140)
You know, no one...
Unknown Speaker (01:20:22.859)
You did not make it clear to the audience that all of this is kind of bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:27.260)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:28.380)
So they leave the sushi restaurant and they go walk on Sunset Strip.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:32.859)
Of course.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:33.420)
And they end up going to Starbucks to get some coffee.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:36.060)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:36.619)
But Joe's trying to have a little bit of fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:38.460)
Oh no.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:39.100)
So he talks about his dick.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:41.180)
You know what's weird though?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:42.460)
The wider my shoulders get, the more my dick shrinks.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:45.340)
Is that related?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:46.300)
That's not true.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:47.340)
Is that related?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:48.619)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:49.020)
I'm not an expert on it.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:52.220)
You're not an expert on dick shrinkage?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:54.140)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:54.300)
Yeah, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:54.619)
My dick's really little right now, but it's crazy.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:56.779)
It's crazy.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:57.420)
It's a little bit of a tax.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:59.420)
But Joe, we're walking along down the street.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:00.859)
Let's cross over here so I can get a cup of coffee.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:03.500)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:03.739)
I'd like one too.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:04.380)
We're walking along on Sunset Strip.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:06.460)
Alex Jones is in performance mode, ladies and gentlemen.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:10.060)
If you could just be yourself all the time, wouldn't that be better?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:13.739)
Every now and then you'd pull out your chest and become Alex Jones on the radio.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:16.539)
I am being myself.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:17.819)
The truth.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:19.180)
He's gonna kick my ass.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:19.979)
Look at these.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:20.300)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:21.340)
I had a sprawl.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:22.300)
I got nervous there.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:23.100)
How to get low.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:23.739)
Oh, I was only gonna do so.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:26.220)
He piled around my head on the concrete.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:28.140)
Come on, buddy.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:28.859)
You know I wouldn't do that to you.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:31.260)
Would you guys just fuck already?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:32.699)
God.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:33.819)
Joe is just straight up calling out Alex at various points for being fake.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:38.699)
Like your shit's fake.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:40.140)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:40.300)
I mean, wouldn't it be better just to be yourself?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:42.380)
Could you stop doing you?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:43.819)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:44.220)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:45.020)
That's damning.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:46.460)
I mean, it is so much like he fucking misses the most fundamental part of that, which is
Unknown Speaker (01:21:54.220)
you don't know which one is the real one.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:58.060)
That's the issue here.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:00.220)
You think that the one that you like is the real one.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:03.420)
Everybody thinks that the one they like is the real one.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:06.859)
You have to believe that or get away.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:09.420)
Or you hate him.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:10.140)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:10.380)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:10.859)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:11.659)
It's sad.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:12.380)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:13.260)
So I do think that there's some decent bits of Joe, though.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:19.020)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:19.420)
Like earlier he was expressing some sort of, you know, hey, I don't want to be defeatist.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:25.340)
This ability to wrestle with his own ideas.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:28.460)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:28.779)
And in this next clip, I think he shows some really good sense.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:34.619)
Kevin, you get anything out of this?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:36.380)
This all good stuff?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:37.420)
Oh, Kevin's a genius.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:38.859)
Kevin, you're going to edit this?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:40.220)
Put it in like fast forward?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:42.060)
Don't worry.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:42.539)
He will.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:43.659)
But, uh, Joe, we need you up there on that building.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:47.739)
No, believe me.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:48.859)
I'm overexposed as it is.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:52.220)
I think I've had enough.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:53.500)
So how's the man show going?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:54.779)
It's fun, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:55.979)
It's fun as hell.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:57.020)
You're about to shoot more episodes?
Unknown Speaker (01:22:58.539)
Well, not until probably around February or March.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:01.500)
So Joe, Alex is saying you should be up on that big billboard on that building.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:06.300)
And Joe has the good sense to know, like, I'm too famous.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:10.779)
I am on the man show and Fear Factor.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:14.060)
I that's too much.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:15.659)
I don't want more than this.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:19.260)
He gives up on that.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:20.619)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:20.859)
But that is a really good instinct that he has.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:23.579)
I think that that that might be one of the cornerstones of, like, what he lost.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:29.739)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:30.619)
He became fine with being up on that billboard.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:35.260)
So I read this book about this, like, late 80s, early 90s hacking group called the Masters
Unknown Speaker (01:23:43.020)
of Deception.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:43.659)
This is before Modems.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:45.420)
This is like they're calling into AT&T's phone line.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:49.899)
Phone freaks.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:50.779)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:52.060)
They're doing this whole thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:53.500)
And if you see the way these fucking young teenage, early 20s boys interact around this
Unknown Speaker (01:24:02.060)
budding version of the Internet that they have found, that's just theirs.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:06.460)
You can see, like, the germ of two directions.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:10.699)
You can see the germ of them being the fucking 4chan assholes who are, like, trying to pretend
Unknown Speaker (01:24:16.460)
to be cool in order to create some sort of fake, you know, libertarian freedom.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:22.619)
Like, we can post child porn because we're, you know, that old thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:26.140)
And then you also have the people who are like, maybe we should think about how this
Unknown Speaker (01:24:30.460)
shit works.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:31.579)
And also, here are the things we can do.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:34.300)
You know, it's so much like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:36.859)
You can see it all as it's about to happen.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:40.300)
And you can see that what happens for them, especially, was like the way they interacted
Unknown Speaker (01:24:45.659)
with the powers that be around them, because it was so negative, because everything that
Unknown Speaker (01:24:50.859)
they got was so bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:52.779)
They instinctively, just without even thinking about it, just go straight for the 4chan version.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:58.140)
They just barrel towards it.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:00.300)
Like absolute insane lunatics.
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And the alternative is incredibly difficult, and it would require a softening of your position,
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sort of in a negotiation with those powers that are so awful.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And if you don't want to do that, there you go.
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But the other alternative is don't ever get to the point where you have to decide to go
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one of those paths.
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There is the problem there, yeah.
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And I think that Joe has that instinct.
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You can kind of see, and it's not like I'm not forced to choose to be good or bad once
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I'm on the billboard.
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But I do have a choice to control my career in a certain way as to never be on that billboard.
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No, I mean, ironically for him, based on his arguments, it is not inevitable that we would
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wind up where we are.
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It's not inevitable that that Joe turns into current day Joe.
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And it also feels like he has an awareness that he has an affirmative responsibility
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to not go in that direction of being overexposed, being on the billboard.
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And that's fascinating.
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Or being absorbed by Alex Jones's flattery.
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Yeah.
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This next clip is another Mike Down clip, because I need you to hear what happens at
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the end, because I'm a little unclear on it.
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But Alex is lying to Joe about the Patriot Act and how you'll end up executed for weed.
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And I think, pay close attention, because I think that Joe calls Alex an idiot.
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OK.
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That's a really good question to address.
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I know Kevin will use that.
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Sure, that's what the whole Patriot Act is really all about.
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It's not about stopping terrorism.
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The new Victory Act says one marijuana, cigarette or any other type of anything that's even
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controlling the pills.
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You're talking 20 to 90 in prison.
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OK, an exercise.
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Yeah, any drug possession.
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They have the passing of they're trying to any drug possession.
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20 to 90.
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It's an act of terrorism and manufacturing anything, including growing marijuana is a
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quote weapon of mass destruction because it hurts masses of people.
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You can be executed.
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Jesus.
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I'll show you the subsection.
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I've got like AP articles, everything.
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Hey, Kevin, you need to interview this guy in front of you.
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No, he's an idiot.
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Joe Rogan gives an infomercial for marijuana.
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I do give an infomercial for marijuana.
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It's good stuff.
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I think that he was saying to Kevin that Alex is an idiot.
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Yeah, you need to interview this guy in front of you because he's an idiot.
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Kevin is walking backwards, recording Alex and Joe walking down the street.
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There isn't another person in the frame who Joe might be talking about.
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I, I include the possibility that there's something that's happening off camera that
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we don't see that he's referring to.
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Sure.
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But given the amount of time that elapsed, the thing that Alex just said, the fact that
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this is supposed to be Joe Rogan's interview, you know, that's why Kevin Booth is there
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in LA.
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Alex is clearly taking over this thing.
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I think he called him an idiot.
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I agree.
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And I think that Alex realized that because he jumped into that Joe Rogan does an infomercial
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for weed.
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You can see in his face almost a, oh, fuck.
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And, and I think this is fascinating.
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How do I save this?
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Yeah.
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I got to switch into like really performing.
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Yep.
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I've, I've just hit blank.
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Now here's my decision tree.
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Like you can almost see the computer get to work on just instinctive BSing.
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Checkout.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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100%.
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So I, I think that that is an awesome moment between the Alex Jones problem of just lying
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and making shit up that clip from earlier and the, you should interview this guy.
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He's an idiot.
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Yeah.
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It doesn't paint a great picture.
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Oh man.
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Yeah.
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Ah man, the past.
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It's a real piece of shit.
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Yeah, it is.
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So the whole idea is to interview Rogan for this documentary.
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Yeah.
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And so they go back to the hotel where they're going to interview him.
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So there's no like background music and all that.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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Um, and so they start talking about, uh, just, you know, talking about a drug war type thing.
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Police state, you know, and they end up talking about a guy who won Fear Factor.
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Did I tell you about the guy who won Fear Factor and was speaking in tongues?
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No.
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Yeah.
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He was a real heavy duty religious dude, you know?
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And, uh, he, uh, once he won, he started, uh, clapping his hair.
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Hallelujah.
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You are gracious God.
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You're so beautiful God.
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You are so patient with me.
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Oh, I saw that.
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And he starts pointing at the sky.
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That's one guy, right?
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Yeah, but they didn't get all this on camera for some reason.
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The guy was rolling camera, forgot to press record or whatever, but this guy standing
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there pointing up to the sky and he starts talking in tongues.
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And I'm like, what are you doing?
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That's what he's speaking a holy language.
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Joe, you had an experience a lot of us have had at the airport where somebody with a giant
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turbine that could hide 20 pounds of C4.
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Well, it wasn't a giant turbine, but yeah, it was a turbine.
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Well, we saw a guy coming here with a giant turbine.
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How giant was a huge, like a blimp.
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He had the Goodyear blimp on his head.
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No, yeah, I was, uh, I was getting my sneakers scanned.
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This is what happened.
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I was at the, I do a joke about it in my act because it's so ridiculous.
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It was like a bad scene in a bad movie.
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I was, uh, at the airport and I was getting my sneakers scanned and, uh, the guy was asking
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me all these dumb fear factor questions.
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And I was, I was being really polite cause I was carrying weed and I was getting a little
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nervous.
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Anyway, he was, he's scanning my sneakers for bombs.
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He's telling me how much he likes fear factor.
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And there was a dude in line that had a turbine on him.
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And I looked at the guy with a turbine and he looked me in the eye.
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We made eye contact and then he just walked right through.
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Well, I was being scanned.
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So the guy knows that you're a national TV celebrity with two TV shows, one of them,
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number one in the country.
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And that's not number one, but he knew who I was.
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Well, now we got to start over with it.
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Ah, damn it.
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No, seriously, Joe.
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Okay.
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Okay, Joe, because we're just going to put you in here telling the story about terrorism.
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Okay.
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Um, Joe, what have your experiences been flying?
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You seen a double standard.
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Well, you know, I mean, I read about Al Gore getting, uh, scanned at the airport and like
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the, the former vice president is going to say, you know what, this whole me being president
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thing didn't work out.
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I'm turning to terrorism, you know?
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So they're like, they're trying to let people know that, you know, everyone's equal and
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even Al Gore has to be scanned.
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And it's ridiculous.
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I mean, the randomness is just silly.
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I, uh, I got scanned because I bought my tickets a couple of weeks in advance, so I got red
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flagged.
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So they're, uh, running my sneakers for bombs.
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He's checking my sneakers and he knows where I am.
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And he's asking me fear factor questions.
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So I can't believe that shows are really real.
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Oh, I'll tell you what I can't, I couldn't eat that stuff.
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And so there's something really fascinating that's going on in this dynamic where Joe's
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the one who's supposed to be getting interviewed and Alex is trying to take over this interview.
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And at the same time, Kevin Booth is the one who's directing this documentary.
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And Alex is clearly trying to direct this interview.
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Yep.
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He's trying to be everything that's going on in this room.
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And when Rogan laughs at his question, I think he's laughing at the ridiculousness of the
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whole situation.
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He's not laughing because that question's funny.
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He's laughing because like, what are we doing here?
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Yes.
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What are we fucking doing here?
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Yeah.
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I'm in a hotel.
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What is fucking happening?
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Get Alex Jones out of my fucking face.
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Why are you trying to throw Byron Allen questions at me?
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Man, that is-
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The comics unleashed.
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That is so fun.
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Like he just couldn't get rid of Alex.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's a bad penny.
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He just couldn't say directly to his face, go away from me now.
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And it feels like he's trying in some ways.
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So many oblique ways.
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Yes.
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But none of them are Alex, go.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And there's something that feels like, all right, Joe Rogan is a comic and this is a
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guy who worked with Bill Hicks.
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This is a guy who's Kevin Booth's comedy royalty in a lot of ways.
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Yeah.
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Especially for someone of Joe's character and his persona.
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For their type, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So that is not a connection that you would want to throw away.
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Kevin Booth directed Joe's first special, that Live from the Belly of the Beast.
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Yep.
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And so maybe there's a feeling of, I want to retain this connection and I feel like
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I kind of got to put up with Alex if I'm going to hang out with him.
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Yep.
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And it just feels like shit.
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Yeah.
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If I'm going to have to do this, I'm going to be a dick to him.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm going to be a little passive aggressive.
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And he's not going to do anything about it.
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Yep.
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Because I'm on Fear Factor.
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Yep.
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And he's a star fucker.
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And it's like, man, just none of this needs to be happening.
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Nah.
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This could all be not happening.
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It could.
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That's brutal.
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Yep.
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So they're talking about this guy with a turban.
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And of course this leads to some Islamophobia.
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Sure.
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They start talking about how dumb Muslims are.
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Sure.
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But Joe wants to be clear, this applies to all religions.
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Sure.
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He hates all religious people.
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Yeah.
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They're all fucking stupid.
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Great.
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So this guy's asking me all these dumb questions and I'm trying to play along.
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And right while this is happening, there's a guy in line with a turban on.
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And I look over at him and he looks at me and we make eye contact.
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And the guy just walks right through.
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And he just walks right through.
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Did you say anything to the screener at that point?
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I just laughed.
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I just said, I can't even believe this is happening.
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I said, this is so funny.
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Here's a guy who's dressed like a fucking genie.
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And I'm being scanned.
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They're scanning my sneakers.
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I do a joke.
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I say the tips of his shoes curl up in a circle and they're scanning me.
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Check him.
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I want to know what goofy shit he believes.
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I mean, he's wearing an outfit.
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And religious freedom, the whole idea of religious freedom to me is
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all religions are retarded.
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Every single one of them.
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They're all anything where a person tells you they know what's going on and they can help you.
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And you know, they're going to give you the secret knowledge.
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It's all bullshit.
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It's all cult.
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I don't care if it's been around for, you know, as long as Scientology or it's been around as long
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as Islam or Christianity.
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It's all ridiculous.
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You know, so when I see someone wearing an outfit, I know that's a zealot.
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That's a guy who's really deep, deep into whatever crazy bullshit.
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And I would like them to talk to him.
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Well, I know that whenever we flew into Los Angeles, there was a guy getting on a plane
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to come here who had a turbine that you could hide, you know, 10 pounds of C4 in.
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I mean, a giant brown turbine, but they were very busy searching old World War II vets in wheelchairs.
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So I think that Alex should be really pissed off by this.
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This is 2003.
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He's been chosen by God for several years now.
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Yeah.
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He's had many visions from God.
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He predicted 9-11 because God gave him prophetic visions.
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This isn't like some point in his career where he can't, or he could even conceivably be not a zealot.
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He is, by his own accounting of everything that's happened in his life, deeply into
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God has chosen me by 2003.
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Yep.
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So the idea that Rogan could be telling him that all religions are stupid and they're a cult
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and all this shit.
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Alex can't accept this.
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Yeah.
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They have fundamental disagreements where he would scream at somebody else for expressing
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views like this.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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That's fascinating.
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Well, I mean, it just goes to the absolute meaninglessness of everything he believes,
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because it is, again, just circumstantial.
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It's conditional.
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In this situation, it will do me no good to express these beliefs to Joe.
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So I will express this.
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If I was in a different situation, it would be to my advantage to yell this person down
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about how great Christianity is compared to...
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If I start screaming that shit at Joe, he might not think that being friends with Kevin
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Booth is worth it anymore.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:32.960)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:37:33.520)
You know?
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Yeah.
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It's just so much like...
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And if you don't know a person in multiple contexts, there's no way for you to know that
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for sure.
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But if one of those people is a media figure, you can.
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You can know.
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It's knowable.
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You can know a lot.
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And there's an element that Joe clearly does know something.
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But the thing that he knows is that you're full of shit when you get on air, and oftentimes
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you make stuff up.
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Yep.
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And that should be enough.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:06.800)
You shouldn't need to know all the specifics of Alex's career if you know that.
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You can't purposefully lie to people?
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Is that so hard?
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I think that's a pretty good guiding line.
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So as they're sitting there in the hotel room, eventually the topic of exercise comes up.
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Not exorcisms.
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No.
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Although I wish.
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I would prefer that conversation.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:31.359)
Great deal, boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:32.159)
No, Joe's talking about how important exercise is.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:35.359)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:38:35.760)
And good for you.
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Yeah!
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It's a good thing to do for humans.
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Agreed.
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And Alex jumps in and then gets scolded for disrupting this interview.
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Oh my god.
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You're an ape.
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You're basically a hairless ape.
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You're a talking monkey on a planet, and your body is meant to do things physically.
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It's meant to chase after food.
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It's meant to hunt and gather, and you have to exercise it.
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If you don't, those chemicals just store up in your body, and you're going to become depressed.
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You're going to feel horrible.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:03.359)
Your body's going to break down.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:04.640)
Your tissue's going to soften.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:05.760)
Your muscle's going to atrophy.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:06.800)
You're not going to be healthy.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:07.760)
Y'all ready to work out, goddamn!
Unknown Speaker (01:39:09.760)
What you really need to do is get up and exercise.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:14.239)
You need to take vitamins.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:15.199)
You need to supplement your diet.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:16.640)
You need to supplement your diet with essential fatty acids, with vitamins, colloidal minerals, nutrients.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:21.520)
You need to do that, and you need to exercise.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:23.279)
You have to keep your body moving.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:24.720)
If you keep your body moving, your body will stay younger much longer.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:28.159)
I'm 36 years old.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:29.600)
The guys that I went to high school with, so many of them look like they're fucking 50.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:32.880)
I feel great.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:33.600)
I'm always horny.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:34.399)
I work out constantly.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:36.239)
My body works great.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:37.359)
I'm 36 years old.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:38.479)
Technically, I'm middle-aged.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:40.159)
I'm ready to go to war, Joe.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:41.279)
You got me fired up.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:42.319)
Ladies and gentlemen, what a speech dynamic!
Unknown Speaker (01:39:44.720)
He's going to eat the cheeseburgers, and he's going to fucking start eating them.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:46.640)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:47.359)
You know what?
Unknown Speaker (01:39:47.760)
I used to be an exercising fiend.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:49.439)
I've been exercising, actually, a little bit more, Joe.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:51.039)
But let me tell you, what he's saying is true.
Unknown Speaker (01:39:52.880)
Eating this crap turns you into a weak blob!
Unknown Speaker (01:39:56.000)
What I'm trying to say is these companies have no interest in making you healthy.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:01.600)
They have an interest in giving you something that makes you feel better, that they can get money from you for.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:06.880)
It's a business.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:07.680)
They sell you something.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:09.119)
They want to give you a treatment for the simple.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:10.399)
Hold on a second.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:11.680)
If they wanted you to be healthy, they would give you advice.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:14.399)
They wanted you to be healthy.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:15.439)
Pharmaceutical companies would say, listen, man, you don't need Zoloft.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:18.479)
What you really need to do is have a life that doesn't suck.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:21.039)
The reason why you're so depressed is because you work this fucking terrible job where you sit in a cubicle all day and you stare at a computer and you file paperwork for some big company.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:30.159)
You get home, you're tired, your feet hurt, and what are you going to do?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:33.199)
You're going to watch television?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:34.239)
You're going to talk to your wife?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:35.439)
Who have you been involved in this fucking crazy monogamous relationship with for 20 years where you have no desire to have sex with her anymore?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:42.079)
You don't even communicate because most of your life you spend away from each other.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:45.439)
You don't have any shared interests.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:49.279)
So what do you do?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:50.159)
Well, you get depressed.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:52.399)
You get bummed out.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:53.199)
Your life seems pointless and hopeless.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:54.960)
You're 40.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:55.840)
You're dying.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:56.720)
So what are they going to do?
Unknown Speaker (01:40:57.359)
They're going to give you a pill.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:58.319)
You're going to feel better.
Unknown Speaker (01:40:59.520)
Well, what they really need to tell you is you need to do something with your life and make it more interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:04.800)
So I mean, there's obviously the fundamental misunderstanding of depression and mental health stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:12.159)
Just your life is boring.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:14.720)
And that's fine.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:15.840)
That's kind of what you'd expect from the adolescent standpoint that he's coming at this from.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:21.199)
I believe if you get cancer, you're a pussy.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:23.520)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:23.920)
If I recall.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:24.720)
Well, that might have been making fun of Dennis Leary.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:27.520)
But still, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:29.119)
You know, like this is great.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:32.560)
It can't hurt to exercise necessarily.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:36.960)
And exploring your creative passions is probably not going to lead to you being more depressed.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:43.199)
But it's silly.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:45.439)
This kind of mentality.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:47.439)
And I think that, like, obviously anybody who takes this kind of stuff seriously recognizes that there's a place for talking.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:57.439)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:41:58.239)
And working out some of your issues.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:00.560)
And you know what he's saying?
Unknown Speaker (01:42:02.159)
People giving you some advice.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:03.920)
You giving yourself some advice in a therapeutic setting.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:06.640)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:07.039)
That has a place and so does medication.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:10.239)
Like, I don't think that the pharma companies should be giving you therapy in the same way that therapists don't prescribe drugs.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:21.279)
Both prongs are important.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:23.600)
And I just, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:26.800)
I think he's very stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:28.640)
But if you were going to give me a pill that made me happy, it would be Kevin Booth telling Alex, let him finish his sentence.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:36.640)
It is like Alex's proximity renders everything you have to say pointless.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:44.000)
By virtue of Alex being nearby.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:48.560)
Like a moon that's out of fucking whack.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:52.239)
Your tides are crazy.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:53.680)
There's no point in talking.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:55.600)
Because out of nowhere, Alex might just pop out and be like, no, I want to exercise.
Unknown Speaker (01:42:59.760)
Let's go to war.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:00.640)
That's not.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:02.319)
We're, we're here for a job.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:04.399)
You ruined the shot.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:05.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:06.640)
This is, we're doing a thing, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:43:08.399)
Joe was on a roll.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:10.720)
I mean, what are you saying?
Unknown Speaker (01:43:11.439)
He was stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:11.920)
He was dumb.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:12.720)
But he was, it was at least the thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:15.680)
And now I will say that I'm a little bit more permissive of this kind of attitude because it's 2000.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:23.840)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:24.399)
And I think that at the time there might have been a less responsible messaging around some
Unknown Speaker (01:43:34.800)
pharmaceuticals.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:36.079)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:36.319)
You know, there, there might, there, I think there was more reason to believe that people
Unknown Speaker (01:43:41.520)
were saying, take this pill, it'll solve your problems in 2000 than it is currently.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:48.560)
I don't think that like a lot of the marketing from these companies was,
Unknown Speaker (01:43:53.119)
Hey, we have magic and a pill.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:54.640)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:43:55.039)
But culturally, I think a lot of people did have that perspective.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:00.399)
And so Rogan being like this, that's bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:04.399)
I think there's more of a comedic contrarian take that makes sense in 2000 than in,
Unknown Speaker (01:44:10.399)
than the present.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:11.199)
Well, I mean, yeah, I don't know how much of, here's the problem with the past.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:18.399)
The problem with the past is I no longer know how much information anyone was privy to at
Unknown Speaker (01:44:24.079)
any given point in time, nor what information, nor do I have like a, a, a bar by which that
Unknown Speaker (01:44:30.880)
information should be judged or like a five out of 10 kind of scale.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:34.640)
Because once the internet took over that, that renders like that changes the way I think
Unknown Speaker (01:44:41.279)
about everything.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:42.079)
Like now I have access to all information.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:45.279)
So there is a certain amount of responsibility of like, just being basic competence, you
Unknown Speaker (01:44:49.920)
know, what does that mean in 2003?
Unknown Speaker (01:44:53.439)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (01:44:54.079)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:55.760)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:44:56.319)
You know, like, even, even with all information available, you can't possibly take in all
Unknown Speaker (01:45:00.880)
of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:01.279)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:01.680)
So the responsibility is still weird.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:04.479)
But in 2003, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:06.720)
I'm just saying about me looking back, you know, like I don't have any judgments because
Unknown Speaker (01:45:11.439)
I really don't even, how do you even relate to that anymore?
Unknown Speaker (01:45:15.039)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:15.199)
Well, you know, when I was talking about history being a tool and it being about how you use
Unknown Speaker (01:45:19.760)
it, I think that what Rogan is saying is bad, but within the context of someone talking
Unknown Speaker (01:45:25.760)
like this in 2000, like the, the surrounding aspects of it, make it less like, Oh, this
Unknown Speaker (01:45:32.880)
is some RFK bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:34.079)
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:35.039)
You know, it's, it's more palatable coming out of a 2003 mind.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:39.520)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:40.399)
But whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:41.600)
I mean, you know, it is, it is like, how far away from Stokely Carmichael are we while
Unknown Speaker (01:45:48.800)
at the same time being so far away from Stokely Carmichael.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:52.159)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:45:52.640)
You know, and that's like, what era is what to compare it to?
Unknown Speaker (01:45:56.880)
Here's, here's what we do know that Joe knows.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:00.399)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:01.119)
Alex is full of shit and kind of annoying.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:02.880)
There we go.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:03.680)
And we can demonstrate that through this awkward sushi date that they had.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:08.319)
So that's really what's important.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:09.520)
That's what we're, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:10.800)
So Joe seems to think that like having a family and all that shit is kind of maybe a big part
Unknown Speaker (01:46:16.159)
of the root of depression, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:46:18.159)
Which Alex really shouldn't agree with.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:20.079)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:20.720)
Is that's, what's going to make you happy.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:22.479)
Be involved in relationships where you're actually friends with each other.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:25.279)
This is the thing I've been saying to people, people getting involved in these crazy relationships
Unknown Speaker (01:46:29.039)
where they, they have these predetermined patterns of behavior that they think they
Unknown Speaker (01:46:32.159)
have to follow.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:32.880)
You have to see someone and once you see them, you should only have sex with that one person
Unknown Speaker (01:46:36.159)
and you should be monogamous and you should stay together.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:38.560)
And you know what, you know, sometimes you're going to do what the wife wants you to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:41.520)
No, you don't.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:42.399)
You don't have to do what the wife wants you to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:44.000)
You have to do what you want to do and you should let her do what she wants to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:47.840)
And if that doesn't work together, then you shouldn't hang out.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:51.279)
Friends are just friends and a male friend and a female friend together are still just
Unknown Speaker (01:46:55.760)
friends.
Unknown Speaker (01:46:56.319)
This whole idea of defining it by wife and husband and mother and child, that's all ridiculous.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:02.159)
We're just a bunch of human beings.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:03.600)
We should just enjoy each other's company.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:05.119)
And that's why people are fucking depressed.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:07.199)
That's why pharmaceutical companies have a stranglehold on our culture because they
Unknown Speaker (01:47:11.119)
give you something that makes you feel better about a life that sucks.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:16.800)
Powerful info.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:17.520)
I'm sorry for jumping in there.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:18.479)
That's okay, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:18.960)
You get excited.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:19.680)
No, I was listening to that.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:20.640)
I was wanting to go three or four days.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:22.479)
I've been swimming and jogging again and I wanted to go do something.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:25.119)
That's the only way to have a happy life.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:26.560)
It's killing me.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:27.760)
How different is what Joe's saying from like, we're all purple penguins.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:32.319)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:32.800)
You know, Alex should not respond like this is powerful information.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:38.640)
This should be a fundamental attack on God's hierarchy and divine order and the right way
Unknown Speaker (01:47:44.560)
to live your life.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:46.560)
Like if Joe's ideas are to be accepted broadly, that's the destruction of the family unit.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:53.279)
That is man and woman do not exist.
Unknown Speaker (01:47:57.840)
What do you mean they're the same?
Unknown Speaker (01:47:59.119)
How can you raise a child?
Unknown Speaker (01:48:01.760)
This is no good, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:03.600)
What next?
Unknown Speaker (01:48:05.279)
Trans people in sports?
Unknown Speaker (01:48:07.439)
I have a child, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:48:08.960)
But I'm not digging this kid's vibe.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:10.560)
I'm out of here.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:11.520)
Get him the fuck out of here.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:12.159)
He's not my friend.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:12.800)
I don't even like him.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:14.000)
What?
Unknown Speaker (01:48:14.560)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:15.680)
I mean, oh boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:17.760)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:18.239)
So here, this kind of is where we touch on a little bit of a problem.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:22.319)
And that is, I think that Joe's high.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:24.560)
Well, yeah, obviously.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:25.520)
I think he's high all the time and he's not really making a lot of sense.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:28.720)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:29.039)
And so in the same way that Alex can't stop himself from budding in,
Unknown Speaker (01:48:35.199)
Joe can't stop himself from saying nonsense.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:39.199)
No, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:40.640)
He needs Alex's guidance, ironically.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:43.119)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:43.760)
Well, it's just like the problem is context.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:48.079)
No one in this room is capable of telling everyone in the room what they need to hear,
Unknown Speaker (01:48:54.239)
which is just stop talking for a while.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:56.159)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:57.359)
Alex, wait in the hall.
Unknown Speaker (01:48:58.720)
All of you need to agree to shut the fuck up.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:01.920)
But unfortunately, if Alex isn't there, like, I think you end up with stuff like this,
Unknown Speaker (01:49:07.760)
which is like, what are you even talking about?
Unknown Speaker (01:49:10.560)
There's a lot of vanity involved in exercise.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:12.479)
I'll be the first person to tell you.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:15.279)
I'll be the first person to tell you that there's a lot of vanity involved and take
Unknown Speaker (01:49:17.840)
care of your body.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:18.720)
You know what?
Unknown Speaker (01:49:19.199)
But if I had to choose between having a nice body and having a bad body, I think having
Unknown Speaker (01:49:23.760)
a nice body is better.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:24.960)
You know, is that shallow?
Unknown Speaker (01:49:26.800)
No, it's honest.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:28.079)
The people who say it's not the people that say it's shallow and it's not important.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:32.640)
They're ridiculous.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:33.680)
You're being jealous.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:34.560)
It's a cop out.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:35.439)
And you know that your body's wrecked and you haven't exercised your whole life.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:38.479)
And you know, women aren't going to find you physically and sexually attractive just by
Unknown Speaker (01:49:42.239)
looking at you.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:43.119)
So you pretend that that's not important.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:45.439)
Let me tell you something.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:46.479)
It's very important when girls see your body and a girl takes my clothes off and she gets
Unknown Speaker (01:49:52.239)
into it and they're turned on by you physically.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:54.560)
That's fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:55.600)
A girl with a hot body is fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:57.439)
Anybody who denies that is ridiculous.
Unknown Speaker (01:49:58.960)
And anybody who thinks that a girl has a hot body has to have a shitty personality is a
Unknown Speaker (01:50:02.640)
fucking moron.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:03.600)
That's ridiculous and not mutually exclusive.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:05.680)
A girl with a hot body can be really interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:08.239)
Just like a chick with a shitty body can be a fucking moron and stupid and often is.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:14.479)
Phone call.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:16.319)
There's a drug tie into this.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:18.000)
That was probably a very important room service call.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:20.880)
Can you talk?
Unknown Speaker (01:50:21.520)
Hold on just a second.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:25.840)
I'm not in this.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:26.800)
I'm not in this, Kevin.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:28.000)
This needs to be Joe's for the film.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:29.520)
It's just not me dancing around or yelling or anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:31.680)
Well, it's it's it's no, no, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:33.680)
The important question.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:34.479)
Okay, look, look.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:36.720)
So Alex is now talking to Kevin behind the camera being like, this isn't me.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:43.279)
This isn't my interview.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:45.119)
I can't stop Joe constantly from talking about how women with great bodies can be cool too.
Unknown Speaker (01:50:52.000)
Like, this is like, I could guide him, but then this just becomes about me.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:00.560)
Joe's an idiot too.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:02.079)
These guys both think each other are idiots.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:04.399)
Do you know what?
Unknown Speaker (01:51:05.039)
It's so funny to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:06.720)
It's so funny to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:08.000)
All the all of the like, we need a meteor people and all of that stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:12.079)
It's so funny that it never occurs to them that just like, dudes, you know, like, listen
Unknown Speaker (01:51:18.000)
to these dudes say dude shit to each other.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:20.720)
But earlier in the episode, Joe was saying that insecure men need to right to be talked
Unknown Speaker (01:51:26.960)
to let go of these insecurities so they don't become conservatives.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:30.079)
Listen to him.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:30.640)
He understands that there is a problem with a certain strain of masculinity.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:34.399)
He doesn't realize that he is it.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:36.000)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:37.199)
It is the dude he is.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:38.960)
But he's also high man.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:40.640)
He has these deep thoughts.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:41.840)
I thought he was opening up his mind to everything but the strain of masculinity that he exists
Unknown Speaker (01:51:46.319)
within as a self-destructive force entirely.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:49.359)
Uh, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:50.399)
Well, what you gonna do?
Unknown Speaker (01:51:51.680)
It's fascinating because they both really clearly resent each other.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:57.439)
Just dudes.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:58.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:51:59.680)
Just stop letting dudes talk.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:02.960)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (01:52:03.840)
Just listen to this shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:06.000)
Listen to this shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:07.199)
Alex is kind of coming from a perspective of like, I can make this interesting if I
Unknown Speaker (01:52:12.399)
just bully this.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:14.319)
If I just jump in and do my Alex dance.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:17.199)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:17.600)
I can make this interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:19.520)
And Rogan's coming from a place where he's like, I don't like you when you do that.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:24.479)
I like you as my friend who isn't that performing asshole.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:28.479)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:28.880)
And Alex is like, I can only be interesting and make things interesting when I'm being
Unknown Speaker (01:52:32.720)
that asshole.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:33.600)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:34.159)
They're-
Unknown Speaker (01:52:34.560)
And you're not being interesting right now.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:36.720)
Or at least what you're talking about is not relevant to this documentary.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:41.760)
Not helpful.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:42.319)
You're wasting film.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:43.920)
Very fucking counterproductive for what we're trying to put out here to also have you being
Unknown Speaker (01:52:51.039)
like, smart chicks can be hot.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:53.119)
Like that's great.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:54.640)
Wow.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:55.920)
Stop.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:56.800)
All of that.
Unknown Speaker (01:52:57.840)
Sometimes people I'm not attracted to are dumb also.
Unknown Speaker (01:53:00.239)
Let's go back to the Iraq war because somehow I feel like your Muslim bashing is more acceptable.
Unknown Speaker (01:53:06.399)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:53:07.039)
Cause this is horrifying.
Unknown Speaker (01:53:08.560)
So we have one last clip here.
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This is the end of how this special wraps up.
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It's magic.
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And it's Joe clearly was like, I need a clean take.
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Yeah.
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I need to just be able to get my rant in.
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Right.
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And so Alex, I think maybe was in the hall.
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Right.
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I think they might have taken Alex out of the room.
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So Joe can just get this clean taken.
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Ugh.
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Pharmaceutical companies.
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Pitch a lot of things, pitch a lot of drugs, sell a lot of drugs based on the idea of chemical
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imbalances.
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Now, a lot of people do have an actual chemical imbalance in their brain.
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There's a lot of people that are crazy.
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There's no doubt.
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There's a lot of people whose brains don't function very well.
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And there, there is a pill, there's some drugs or some tests they can do to find out if it's
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true and they can actually help people.
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That's that's real.
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But a lot of people take drugs, take pills that pharmaceutical companies describe prescribed
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because their life sucks.
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And when your life sucks, you will have a chemical imbalance in your brain.
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And that's a natural thing.
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When you're depressed, if you have a terrible job, you sit in a fucking-
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Sucks to who?
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You come home and you're in a loveless marriage and you have no hobbies, no interests, no
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passion and no creative output.
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Your life is going to suck and you're not going to feel good.
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That doesn't mean you need a pill.
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That doesn't mean someone should give you a pill and you take that pill and all of a
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sudden you're happy and you can deal with this sucky life and you can walk through it
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with a smile.
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You know what?
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If you want to be a drone and you're happy being a drone and you would like someone to
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just give you a pill so that you can accept that, that is available to you.
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But that's not helping anyone.
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What you really need to do is get the fuck out of this life that you're living.
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We're taught to believe that this that we're supposed to follow this predetermined pattern
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of behavior where you live this, this, you know, you work 50 weeks a year for two weeks
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off.
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You basically you slave, you give away eight hours of your day.
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We say, well, hey, you got those other 16 hours to yourself, but you don't.
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You know, if you work eight hours a day, man, you're fucking tired.
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Okay.
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In between travel to and from work, all that, you cut a couple hours out of there.
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You got eating, you cut a couple hours out of there.
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How many, how many hours you have left?
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What do you get like 10, 12 hours left in your day and what are you going to do?
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What are you going to do?
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You're going to sleep.
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You got to sleep for at least eight or you don't feel good.
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What, what kind of life is that?
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It's no life.
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If you don't do something that you enjoy doing for a living, you're going to be depressed.
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That's a fact.
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And it being depressed is, is not because you have a chemical imbalance in your brain.
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It's because your brain is responding to a really bad, boring life with no stimulation.
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That's what pharmaceutical companies don't want you to hear.
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They want you to think that there's something that they could fix in you and just give you
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a little pill.
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But really the symptoms are just a part of your life being a fucking massive piece of
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shit.
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That would have gone a lot better if Alex didn't interrupt me five or six fucking times.
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And that's the end.
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Ooh.
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I think that like, honestly, if I watch this, the way that it's not edited out where Joe
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is being a real like, Hey, the Alex Jones problem is that he makes shit up and that
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it ends with him saying that would have been a lot easier without Alex.
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Yep.
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The fact that all of that is there and this was released, it makes me think that Kevin
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doesn't like Alex that much.
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Nope.
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This makes Alex look really bad.
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It is, it is the artificiality of all of this is so fucked up in retrospect, especially
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considering the amount of realness they think they are.
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Yes.
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Like it is fascinating the idea that you can do a rant on cue, you know, like that's ridiculous.
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Uh, that's, that's just performance, uh, which is fine, but you know, you're just saying
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lines, so don't act like you've got some big emotional truth behind you.
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And then Alex is just exploiting fame.
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He's just there being like, Oh, if I outburst here, maybe I'll get in.
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This will be a good take.
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He'll probably put me in.
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That'll get me more out there.
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You know, he also recognizes that left to his own devices, Joe goes down a bunch of
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dumb paths that aren't helpful.
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And he feels a responsibility to keep that on track.
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And Kevin is clearly keeping the two of these people there to fuck each other up for his
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own purposes.
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Maybe it is maybe he's a fucking wild.
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He's a sadist.
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All of you need to go home.
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Yeah.
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And I think that, I think that, um, you know, obviously I'm not a Bill Hicks historian.
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Sure.
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Um, but I do think that there's something really special about him as a performer, as
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somebody who had a lot to say, uh, a style that was, uh, singular in a lot of ways.
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And the fact that he died young and was aware that he was going to die.
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The fact that he had a terminal cancer, um, it gives his legacy some kind of meaning that
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a lot of people don't have.
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Sure.
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And I think that Kevin Booth, being somebody who worked intimately with this guy, probably
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wanted to replace him because having that kind of person around you probably feels great.
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It probably is like being next to an alien.
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It's exciting.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And I think that maybe you would want to believe other people to be that.
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So you're saying he's got something of a Bill Hicks candidate list laying in front of him.
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And he's like, Oh, I see Joe Rogan has some Bill Hicks in him, but maybe he's too high.
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And I see Alex has some Bill Hicks in him, but he's a piece of shit.
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You know, I don't, I don't know if it's a mental process like that, but I don't think
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you're wrong.
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Yeah.
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It's not a coincidence that like the other big name that's in this group is Doug Stanhope.
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Like it's, I think, I think on some level, Kevin Booth had this sacred cow production
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thing, or he's trying to recast Bill Hicks in some ways.
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Try to bring together people who have the appearance of what Bill actually had.
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Right.
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And they're all faking it.
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Right.
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It's all fake.
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Like a sacred cow.
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Ironically.
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It is, it is an apt and ironic name.
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God damn it, you're good.
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And a name of something that Alex should never have agreed to be a part of.
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Sacred cow is the kind of name that's like, that's what the devil would call something.
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Yup.
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Anyway, I think that this peep behind whatever curtain there is, I think it reveals a ton
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of that stuff.
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And it shows artifice.
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It shows that these people don't really, they don't like each other.
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And it shows that Joe, at least in 2003, was fully aware that Alex is full of shit.
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And therefore should take a greater amount of responsibility in the way that he has actively
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mainstreamed and whitewashed Alex's career to the point where it is now.
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He has a great conscious, active responsibility in Alex's trajectory.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, listen, it might be lofty to hope that he recognizes his harm done.
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On a simple human and personal and individual level, what he should really notice is that
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now he says to Alex what Alex said to him about 9-11.
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Mm.
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When Alex goes, 24 months I told you about 9-11, he's like, 9-11 fucking happened, asshole.
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Now he's the one who's like, Alex told me about 9-11.
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Do you see, that's how, that's where your brain should go like, oh, I have changed for
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the worse.
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Well, it's exactly like what I was saying about him being able to accurately mock reefer
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madness in 2003 and creating it now.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's the, you have become the thing you mocked because you didn't follow the instincts
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that you had back then.
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Yeah.
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Which were things like, I'm overexposed.
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Yeah.
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I shouldn't seek fame.
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I shouldn't do all of these things.
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I know that Alex is full of shit.
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I shouldn't play along with this.
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Yeah.
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He didn't follow those instincts and because of it, we're where we are.
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You know, I think part of it is, let's say he doesn't define himself in opposition
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to the mainstream.
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What he does is he orbits the mainstream.
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Right?
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And this orbit means that essentially he's always going to be dependent upon the mainstream.
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And then when the mainstream is like, come on down.
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Well, now he's part of it.
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And he gets his hundred million dollar check the whole time.
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He's thinking I'm a separate thing, but he's not.
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He's just part of the solar system.
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Right.
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If you want to not be these guys, you have to be out.
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You just have to be your own thing, you know?
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And that means you can't orbit around the mainstream.
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Yeah.
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You just can't do it.
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I think that's true.
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It's like that Black Mirror episode that was about what everybody's like.
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There's like an America's Got Talent thing and everybody's riding bikes or something.
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I remember that one.
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And the guy is the thing to his neck and he's given his passionate speech.
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And then the next scene, he does it every morning, you know?
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And that's how he gets paid.
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That is Alex.
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You know?
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And that is, you think that's Alex, but that's Joe.
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That's what that really is.
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Yeah.
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They're both not free of whatever it is.
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And the freeness and all that shit is fake.
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Yeah, it's fake.
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It's a piece of branding.
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They just want to be rich.
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Anyway, I thought this was fun.
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If only for a couple of those clips where Joe's being a real dick.
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It's worth their weight in gold.
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They are pretty great.
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So we had to...
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We had to...
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Gotta do it.
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This is how we see our primary ding dong on this Wednesday.
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But we'll be back.
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Yeah, the past.
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Fuck that shit.
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Yeah, crazy.
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Meteor should have hit.
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Yeah!
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Anyway, we'll be back.
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But until then, we have a website.
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Indeed we do.
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It's knowledgehite.com.
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Yep, we'll be back.
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But until then, I'm Neo, I'm Leo, I'm DZX Clark.
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I am the mysterious professor.
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And now here comes the sex robots.
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Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
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Thanks for holding.
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Alex, I'm a first time caller.
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I'm a huge fan.
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I love your work.
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I love you.
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