Transcript/Doing Dune: Part 1

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N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight
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It's worm time!
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I missed my cue, it's worm time!
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Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray.
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Worm Mix!
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There we go.
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Knowledgefight.
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Knowledgefight.
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I'm sick of them posting.
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This is a bad remix.
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We are the bad guys, knowledgefight.
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Dan and George.
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Knowledgefight.
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At the Harkonnens.
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Need money.
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Whatever that Mapes person was.
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Stop.
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The Mapes.
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Andy in Kansas.
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It's time to pray.
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Andy in Kansas.
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You're on the air.
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Thanks for holding us.
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Hello Alex, I'm a system caller.
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I'm a huge fan.
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I love your worm.
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Knowledgefight.
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Knowledgefight.com.
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I love you.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to Doin' Dune with Dan.
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Doin' Dune.
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I'm Jordan.
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Dune is being done, I'm Dan.
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He's Dan.
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Today we are doing part two.
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Sort of, not really.
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Not really.
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It's the second installment.
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We're doing part one of part two.
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Exactly.
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It's going to get very confusing.
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A two part series that's going to have a third part.
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I guess it has to now.
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There might even be a fourth part.
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Who knows.
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I'll leave the sort of suspense in the air whether or not I've been gotten by the dune
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bug.
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Honestly, I want to talk about the James McAvoy one, so if I can get you that far.
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We'll see.
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All will be revealed by the end of this episode.
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Let's have a little suspense.
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It is possible.
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But today.
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For those of us, for those who are just joining us, if you missed our last episode, we talked
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about the 1984 David Lynch dune.
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Indeed.
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And I've had a little bit more time to reflect on it.
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Okay.
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Do we have pre-dune thoughts?
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I mean, I think.
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Okay.
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I might have been too nice to it.
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I think I was.
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I didn't like it.
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And I thought it was bad.
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But I like it less as time has gone on.
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I will definitely say that.
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That is the reverse of I think most people.
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What?
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The, the, the, it grows on them?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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The David Lynch dude seems to have grown on people a lot more.
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Believe me, they hated it that much.
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I have a suspicion that were I to get deep, deep into dune, I might be able to revisit
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it and see a certain amount of charm and things that like are maybe being pointed to from
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deep dune lore that don't come out in the actual telling of the story in the movie as
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it's presented.
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I could see my appreciation of it growing that direction, but that has not happened.
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And as a movie, I just think it's terrible.
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It's terrible, isn't it?
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Yeah, this is partially why I don't watch too many movies.
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I get resentful.
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Cause sometimes it turns into David Lynch's dude.
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And that spoils all movies for you.
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It goes on for days.
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Just thinking about it like, I didn't enjoy that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I like, I like the idea that one bad apple is not, it's the opposite, you know, like
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if there's one bad apple, never eat apples ever again.
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Yeah.
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This is probably also, I mean, now that we've watched the 84 dune and the first part of
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the new one.
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We're going to talk about today.
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I have watched more movies in the past week than probably a long stretch.
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So maybe I should get back into movies.
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Well, the last movie we watched was literally, I would almost guarantee the last movie you
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watched was Elysium.
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Ooh.
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No, I have to have seen something since then.
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No, you watched something in between, uh, in between our last live shows.
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How many documentaries?
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Those don't count.
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Documentaries do not count as movies.
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That's a hard, fast rule that I have just invented.
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Okay.
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Well then, shit.
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I think there has to have been something, but I don't know what.
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Right.
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I don't know what.
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Well, I mean, that's, that's interesting because again, Elysium and these movies are only for
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work.
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It's true.
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But also somewhat enjoyable.
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Here's an irony of my media diet.
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Yes.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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I watched all of Lost initially begrudgingly.
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Right.
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Because I wanted to be able to be part of the conversation that was happening in society.
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Sure.
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And I've taken in some media because of that.
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Like, that's the reason I watched Game of Thrones.
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Sure.
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Wanted to be able to talk to people about it.
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Everyone wouldn't shut the fuck up about it.
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Really didn't.
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So I wanted to join in.
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Yeah.
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Somehow movies don't, that doesn't apply.
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Interesting.
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There's so many movies that everyone's talking about, everybody's talking about.
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Talking about what?
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I just, I found myself in the rhythm of LA Knight, the wrestler.
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Everybody talking about it.
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Everybody's talking about what?
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And then you got nothing?
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All the people saying.
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What are people talking about?
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Like Barbie Oppenheimer.
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Sure.
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That was one of the last ones that everyone was talking about.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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And I didn't see either of them.
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Yeah.
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But that didn't draw me to the theater, even though I would like to be conversant.
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Sure.
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In these things.
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Yeah, I mean, I think here's the problem.
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And I'm going to be, I'm going to be real honest with you about these movie conversations,
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as opposed to the TV conversations.
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I think you probably already know what the conversation is with movies for the most part.
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Not all the time.
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But don't you?
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Maybe.
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You know?
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But I could have guessed what the conversation was going to be about Lost and Game of Thrones.
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Sure, sure.
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But.
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Because it happens over weeks of time and people are always coming up with new details
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and shit and you're supposed to keep following along.
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And it feels, maybe it is an unpacked, or un-unpacked thing, a still-packed thing about
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like working at a movie theater makes me feel like it's not the same to watch a movie on
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a computer screen or something.
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Fair.
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Whereas watching a TV show feels completely normal on a TV screen.
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Sure, sure.
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That makes sense.
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There might be something with that that I just don't let myself watch Barbie or Oppenheimer
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on the computer screen.
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Yeah.
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Maybe I should let that go.
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That's interesting.
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I don't think so.
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Oh.
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It's a little, I mean, you know, why not?
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You know, back half.
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Whoa.
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If not letting it go meant I'll go to the theater and see these movies, then that seems
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like a good solution.
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But instead of saying like, oh fuck it, you don't need to ever watch movies.
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You are the one who established that one bad apple should ruin every apple forever.
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Sure.
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That's fair.
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I think we've gotten to the starting point, though.
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Have we?
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We've watched the 2021 part one Dune from Denis Villanueve.
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I was surprised it was 2021.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I guess maybe because the new one just came out fairly recently.
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Three years ago felt like, I felt like longer ago than when I remember that happening.
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Yeah.
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But time, time is...
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Rider's strike, my man.
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Yeah.
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Time's a weird thing.
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Yeah.
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Three years ago that came out.
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Yep.
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2021.
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Yep.
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Still on a desert.
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You couldn't update that?
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Thoughts on the setting.
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Have they, has brown grown on you?
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It's very khaki.
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Yeah.
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All the sand.
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It's very khaki.
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It's still too dry.
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But I mean, I guess that's part of it.
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You know, that's, that's part of the, the ambiance of the setting and what have you.
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So right out of the gate.
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There we go.
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I will say this.
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Uh huh.
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I thought that the story was so much better told.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And one of the reasons is because initially the first voice you hear and the first people
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you hear and the perspective you hear is of Chani and the Fremen.
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Yes.
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There was a larger entry point to that, uh, as opposed to the beginning of it being this
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giant monstrosity, non-worm creature, who is talking to an emperor, right?
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You know, it was, it was more accessible in terms of like, oh, this is going, this story
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is essentially going to be about a struggle as opposed to being about some kind of political
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weird machinations.
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Although the political weird machinations are there.
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That element of the, the Fremen and those people don't get, doesn't get introduced in
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the 1984 one until a fairly into the movie.
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Whereas this one, it's right at the gate.
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And I think it does a much better job of establishing them as a major player in this.
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And then also you see them and then you see the Harkonnens and you see the Atreideses,
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Atreidae.
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I like that.
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And so you see them, they're, they're all introduced as entities as opposed to just
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be kind of like the empire Harkonnens and Atreideses.
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Yeah.
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It is, it is like a quintessential show, don't tell a kind of example, you know, with, with
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your 1984 David Lynch is literally, we're going to tell you the story of what's happening
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to catch you up so then we can watch a movie.
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This one's like, Hey, we're just going to tell a story, you know, we're going to show
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you what's happened.
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Did I miss it?
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Or were there not even, the emperor's not even in this.
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Nope.
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Not even in it.
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He's not in it.
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Nope.
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The worm non-worm time folding thing isn't in it.
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Didn't even know they were there.
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The guy with the vacuum isn't in it.
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Not there.
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The vacuum guy, tragic cut from the screen screenplay.
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I think that that scene might have been a big problem for me in the first one.
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It might've been too much because it's so early in the movie and I think it was too
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much.
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Yeah.
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I think it was just like, guys, guys.
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I genuinely think that for brains like yours and mine at this point in 2024, with our like
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knowledge of movies and movie history and shit, you cannot have the guy by himself mopping
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without us being like, wait, I can't watch this movie.
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It's over.
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There needs to be eight guys mopping or no guys mopping.
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I think it was, that was a choice and it was distracting and it ruined the movie.
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It ruined the entire movie, didn't it?
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I really think it does.
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They need to have more onset discipline with these wrangling the extras, the background
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people.
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Totally.
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It's too much.
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If there was any, like they've done so many oral histories, they've done so many documentaries
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on what went wrong and all that shit, none of them ever really tackled what that guy
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was thinking and why it ruined the entire movie for everyone.
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Like to, like to catch up with that, that, that cat.
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Absolutely.
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Okay.
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So we've got it.
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We've got the setting.
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We've got the opening up so far.
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Yeah.
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You are, I would say immediately hit with a sense of scale that is much better executed
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in 2021.
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Obviously.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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I mean, there's just some things that are essentially like, you probably couldn't have
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done some of this stuff in 84.
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No.
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So I'm trying to be as, as like kind of fair about that as I can, but obviously aesthetically
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everything is much better.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Totally.
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What's so great about this, uh, version though, right out of the gate and what he did that
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kind of changes, I think for a lot of people who watched it, who are fans of Dune, making
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everything feel so big, like that was one of the first choices that made me feel comfortable
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was whenever they have these gigantic spaceships showing up for no reason, you know, like you've
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got a temple that's 7,000 feet tall, but it's only so the guy can say, Hey, here's a, here's
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your piece of mail.
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And then they're off again.
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You know, like that's one of the great thematic parts of Dune is everything's too big.
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The more important something looks, the less important it is.
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People are imparting meaning to something that is meaningless.
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But what about the worm?
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That looks pretty important.
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It looks real important.
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Isn't this the inverse that now we get into themes.
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This is how we, uh, we have a paradox.
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Well, I mean, it is, it's more like conflict, right?
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So something that looks big, uh, is unimportant and something like the worm is big and it's
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so it's not, it doesn't need to be around.
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You don't need to know that a worm is nearby.
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A worm doesn't need to be within a million miles of you.
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The worm is so important.
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It is always on your mind, right?
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That's what the Willy Nelson song was about.
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Cause the worm.
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It's all about the worm.
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I do think that they did the worm way better because it was the, I mean, it was very Jaws
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like in terms of like, they don't show you that much.
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For the first good hour and a half, two hours of the movie, you probably only see it as
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like a Sarlacc pit.
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You know, you only see it as an opening chasm in the sand.
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And I think that that choice is good because it retains your ability to imagine more.
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Whereas in the, in the first one, I just remember seeing the worm the first time I was like,
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that's early.
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And now I've seen the worm.
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I know what the worm is.
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I know what the worm looks like.
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And I think it took away some of the mystery which was retained in this one.
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Yeah.
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That's that first time you see the worm, the choice of the sand just kind of shaking and
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then falling into fire.
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Like that is such a great way of introducing a supernatural force, you know, just as like,
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it's not appearing from above crash landing on you.
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It is something that not only can you not feel or see or anything, it could happen at
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any moment.
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That kind of, that kind of vibe, except, you know, of course you can see a giant worm coming
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at you.
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There's a worm sign.
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Right.
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That whole thing.
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We've got worm sign!
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I just think of Mystery Science Theater.
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How do you, yeah, I know, totally.
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We've got worm sign!
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We've got movie sign!
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How do you feel about saving people this time?
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Whenever Leto and Paul.
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Well, see, here's the thing.
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I realize having seen it in both movies, because that's a scene that is all, it's very similar
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in both.
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Totally.
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Whereas a lot of things are very different.
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It is a defining character moment for Leto and I get that and I think it was much better
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executed in this because there are multiple ships, first of all, they deal with the idea
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that we can't fit everybody, we've got to get some stuff off of this.
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And so I think it was all in all much better done.
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It didn't leave me thinking like, you only saved two of those people.
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Yeah, it is a massive difference, just to add the one line of being like, okay, we have
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to remove important stuff here to bring people on.
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And having a voice that's like, we can't fit them all, we can do this, this, or this, and
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we can't.
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Damn you, man!
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I'll put these lives in, yeah.
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That just takes away the little voice in the back of your head and that's kind of what
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movies should do.
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Put you at ease and get those questions away to allow you to enjoy and to establish the
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character.
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Let's talk Thropter.
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Let's do it.
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Thopter.
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What?
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Ornithopter.
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Okay, whatever.
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Not Thropter.
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Bug.
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I get you.
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Bug thing.
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Yes, that's exactly what it is.
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I mean, it's a dragonfly, right?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I have a couple problems.
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It looks cool.
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It looks great.
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I have a respect for science fiction with the understanding that not every culture,
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not every universe that ever exists is going to follow the exact same line of technological
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progression so some things will look weird.
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I get that.
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This is using the same ideas as like a helicopter or whatever, but just in a really dumb way.
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It's really dumb.
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Yeah, exactly the same but dumber unless, yeah, it makes no sense.
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There's no way they would get to that point and then stop.
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This idea would be like, okay, maybe somebody would have that because it looks cool and
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maybe some really rich person would have one of these Thopters for going out over the lake
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or whatever, but that would not be a normal means of conveyance.
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No, no.
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It just doesn't make sense.
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It would be so hard to steer.
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Just no way.
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It's like the steampunk whenever hot air balloons are the in vogue mode of transmission.
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Shut up.
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Stop it.
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I get that it's whimsical.
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Shut up.
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But it does look cool.
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Yeah.
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No, no, no.
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Agreed.
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It reminds me of the AT-AT in Star Wars in the Empire Strikes Back.
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When you're a kid and you watch the giant lumbering thing come, you're like, oh, that's
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intimidating.
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And then as an adult, you're like slow and with a low, the high center of gravity, that's
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how you're designing this?
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Who built this?
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Whose idea was this?
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There's some notes that have been ignored on this thing for sure.
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So also with that rescue scene, there is an added element that I didn't feel was present
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in the original, which is that there is like defective equipment that the Harkonnens have
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left there that is the reason that there is a disaster to begin with.
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Like in the original, it felt like these people were just sitting ducks and whether Leto was
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flying in there to observe the spice being made or not, they would be dead.
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Whereas in this, they would have been saved.
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There is a mechanism to get these little pods out of there.
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And it just didn't happen because the Harkonnens fucked them over.
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And that adds to the vibe of the whole situation.
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Everything that's going on makes more sense because of little things like that.
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Now what's great about that is in terms of the movie and the story thematically, what's
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so important is that things are always happening on purpose.
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So that's like a great review that you know why something happened and that it happened
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for a reason, as opposed to anything happening randomly.
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Nothing in the story of Dune should ever be like, and then that just happened.
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Which felt like a lot in the other one.
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In the 84 movie, it feels like this is just a story of things that are happening.
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Whereas in the actual conception of this universe, everything is according to plan.
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And if it doesn't go well in your plan, that's because somebody else's plan included your
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plan.
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Not that something went wrong.
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They thought this through and fucked you over in advance.
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And that makes the feeling of these characters more real.
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They felt like more full beings as opposed to like, oh look at that guy.
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Not that he did a terrible job or anything, but in the first one I didn't see a character,
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I saw Patrick Stewart.
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Whereas I was like, even Josh Brolin, I know he's a celebrity, I know he's an actor, but
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I was more like, ah these people are characters.
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And I think part of that is that A to B to C makes sense.
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It also helps because Josh Brolin's really great at getting so angry, you're like, Jesus
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I forgot you were Josh Brolin for a second.
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You're like, man just calm it down.
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So let's talk about that for a second.
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Sure.
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Josh Brolin.
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He doesn't have the silly guitar.
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He does not.
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He still plays it.
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Now here's something that I was flummoxed by.
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So in the 84 one, you're introduced to Paul, and then in walks Dean Stockwell, Patrick
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Stewart, and weird computer guy.
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The three musketeers quite literally.
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Exactly.
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It seems like they're a team and there is much more of a cohesiveness to these people
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who are like training Paul and raising him up and stuff.
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That doesn't feel that way in this one.
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The like Lido, Oscar Isaac's great.
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He's fantastic.
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He's close with the computer guy and close with Josh Brolin, but then Dr. Huey is often
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his own thing.
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Right.
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He's part of that trio, it doesn't feel like that at all.
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So he felt very disconnected as a character from all of it, but then maybe I missed it.
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You'll have to forgive me if I missed it, but I didn't see any tease in this that there
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even was a traitor.
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In this movie, I didn't feel like there was almost any set up to Dr. Huey taking out Lido.
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No.
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There's no set up to that being a traitor, which is smart.
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Is it?
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It is.
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I mean, you know in the 84 version.
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I'm conflicted about it.
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Okay, tell me what you got.
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Well I think, I don't know, it's difficult to experience this movie without having seen
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the other one, obviously.
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So I don't know how, I knew that Dr. Huey was going to do that.
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So it wasn't like a huge surprise.
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I think it was too telegraphed in the 84 one, but then it kind of felt like untelegraphed
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entirely here.
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And I don't know.
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I don't think it's awful, but it did feel like maybe, like Baron Harkonnen wasn't even
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bragging about like, I have a plan or anything.
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Right, right, right.
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It's just at the beginning, there is the scene with the Skarsgard and Bautista, right?
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And he's like, what is your gift, not a gift?
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You know, he does a thing.
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And that is kind of meant to signal, we've got an idea behind all of this stuff.
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But the establishment-
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But I thought the when is a gift, not a gift was more about the emperor letting the Atreides
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take over Arrakis.
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It's all part of the same thing.
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Yeah.
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But that's too granular, I think, for that line to be a hint at a traitor.
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But see now that's the other interesting aspect of the 2021 film that I like talking about
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is that nobody, I don't even know what it would be like to come into that film not knowing
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a ton about Dune or having an osmosis about Dune.
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Sure.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Like you-
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Like just completely blind.
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Yeah.
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How could you possibly live in this world?
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You'd have to be like eight?
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Like how could you watch that movie without any knowledge of Dune?
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But I think it would work as a movie even if you didn't know a ton, which I can't say
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for the Lynch version.
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Totally.
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Agreed.
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But I do think it would also like, I don't know.
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It's very difficult to imagine sitting through two and a half hours and then like the end
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of it being what it is and then being like, wait, there's a second part of this?
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Like I think if you're someone who's younger, that might be fucking annoying.
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It probably is.
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I believe that.
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I'll tell you what, they did it with Across the Spider-Verse.
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They had that same kind of ending where it's like, well, see you next time.
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What?
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You're a movie!
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You can't do that!
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We can't do a next time on!
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Well look at the clock.
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We gotta run.
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No, no, no, no, no, no.
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You have to finish the story, right?
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I guess it was somewhat finished in terms of there being an episodic-ness to where it
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left off.
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I don't begrudge it that or anything, but it definitely did not end in a high climax.
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Right.
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Well, I mean, as we talked about in the last episode about the 84 version, that is the
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movie.
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In the movie, there was a half of a movie that kind of made sense, and then the back
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half was insane.
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Which is kind of what is making me a little worried about part two.
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It's like everything that's insane is there.
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Right, right, right, right.
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But that's why they made the first part its own whole movie and fleshed it all out, and
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then they gave the second part another movie so you'll have time to breathe, you won't
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be able to figure out what's going on.
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Does it feel like they have a lot to do in that second movie?
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They still do.
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And it honestly is a completely different story.
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So I don't expect it to be the same beats and everything that will be in the second
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one.
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But honestly, just almost night and day.
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Yeah, it really is.
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I didn't even notice, honestly, how different they really were until we kind of watched
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them back to back.
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Because my memories of both of them, I hadn't watched the 2021 version in a while, were
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very different.
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Now it's really hard not to watch it and be like, these fuckers are acting their balls
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off.
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No shit.
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Everyone is acting so hard.
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They are.
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And they are.
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I imagine that, I mean, it looks like it's not that painful.
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No.
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It looks like they're having a good time.
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Yes, but they are working.
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No one is like just smoothly entering the character.
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Everybody is beating the shit out of the scenery.
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Yeah.
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But I think I would say that is a positive.
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Yeah, totally.
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I would say, look, I mean no disrespect to Kyle MacLachlan.
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Paul, Timothee Chalamet is way better.
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Yeah.
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Totally.
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I'm not saying that Kyle MacLachlan is a bad actor, I'm not saying anything like that.
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But there is a depth to what Chalamet is doing that carries more conflict.
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He's able to convey much more of like, I don't want to do this.
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Yeah.
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There is a nice thing, because sometimes with acting, it can be very easy to get caught
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up when people are full of shit.
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But there is some nice things where you're like, okay, Kyle MacLachlan, that was his
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first movie.
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Right.
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And Timothee Chalamet has done a lot of work.
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There is a thing you can learn to do called acting.
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You know?
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It's not all just bullshit.
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Yeah.
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And some of it is probably experience, and some of it may just be Timothee Chalamet is
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able to tap into something.
Unknown Speaker (00:26:15.839)
Sure.
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I also felt, this might be a little bit out of left field, he was giving me a little bit
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of Nicolas Cage energy.
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There is, oh man, I can't wait to show you part two if you feel the Nicolas Cage energy
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now.
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I feel like there was a high potential for Nicolas Cage energy, which you don't often
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see in an actor.
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The zero to 60 drive angry power shows up in part two.
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It's really fun to watch.
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How do you feel about the Bene Gesserit?
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Because I think- Ooh, I got thoughts.
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There we go.
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This is like, to me, the big separation in thematic quality, is how important the Bene
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Gesserit being in control of everything is to the centrality of the story.
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So I have a couple thoughts.
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Go for it.
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Remind me about that, because my first thought is aesthetic that I need to get through.
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Sure, of course.
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Nobody's got weird bald attack faces on that have giant sharp things attached, yeah.
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It makes more sense.
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They have costumes that are distinct, but not like, oh.
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They look like space nuns.
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Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:22.200)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Like weird space monster nuns.
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Right.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Which I thought was a much more sensible choice.
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I mean, everything was much more sensible, like the way that the human computer guys
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just had a little mark on their leg.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:35.880)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Makes much more sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:37.880)
Yeah.
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Looks better.
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They don't look insane.
Unknown Speaker (00:27:40.880)
No, it looks like part of their job, as opposed to, oh, we find the most insane people we
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can and then turn them into computers.
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You all don't have crazy fucking eyebrows.
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So I thought that the Bene Gensler, it was much more subtly handled, and it's very difficult
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to disambiguate between what is better told and what is a function of me seeing this after
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watching the first one and complaining about it to you.
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Sure, sure, sure, sure.
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Where you explain some things.
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Sure.
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But I felt like what they do makes more sense, the voice makes more sense.
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A lot of it just makes more sense.
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Yeah.
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But I still don't understand why the spice gives them the abilities to do these things.
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That part I still don't fucking understand.
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Right.
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And I don't expect to.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:30.920)
Hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:31.920)
I mean, it is better to live there than to be like, it's midichlorians, if that makes
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sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:39.359)
Do you know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (00:28:40.359)
It feels like it is a little bit.
Unknown Speaker (00:28:41.359)
There's not, it's not not a- I mean, isn't the spice kind of midichlorians?
Unknown Speaker (00:28:44.279)
I mean, it's not not a MacGuffin in every aspect, you know, it's like, if you've made
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this both the motivation for every character and every plot device, then it is the ultimate
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MacGuffin.
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But I also do think they did a better job of, I think they just added one or two lines
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that better explained why, like, spice is important to everyone, that interstellar travel
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is literally impossible without it.
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I don't feel like, I feel like that was only clear after we talked about the first one.
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Yeah.
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Whereas it felt like, all right, I get, I can, I can put that to the side and understand
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why everybody is so after this, like, expensive commodity.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Whereas it just felt more magical in the first one.
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Yeah.
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I'm, I'm, so what, to your, to saying like, I don't know how much of this is what I got
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from this versus how much of this is what we've talked about and at the adding all of
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that together, and then the ability to kind of put things together on your own with that
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information.
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Like, how everybody is watching Dune is brought in such a very specific and unique way, because
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there are so many different interpretations, so many different pieces of media that people
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have consumed that they bring to the story with them.
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So what I'm interested in with the, the Bene Gesserit and not just the, the like aesthetics
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of them is, can you see a much better way of like, these are the people who are not
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just, you know, like controlling Paul or telling some people what to do.
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These are the secret society that run everything.
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I mean, yeah, because they say it.
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Well, sure.
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I mean, Paul just directly says it to his mom.
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Sure, but that's, you know, so it kind of like it's spelled out.
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Sure, sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:30:40.240)
Um, but yeah, I mean, it didn't, it wasn't really shown as much, but they do, they are
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clear that like the Bene Gesserit plants, uh, beliefs and various, we've made, we paved
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the way, we opened a way for you on Arrakis and you know, stuff like that.
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So yeah, I mean, there is like, it definitely does feel more like they're pulling strings
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and stuff.
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So yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, sure.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:31:05.960)
Well, so, so the reason that I kind of want to get into that is just the, the, the conflict
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of, of Dune and the, the parts of Dune and the, uh, ongoing like universe of it is, is
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kind of, to me, very closely associated with kind of, uh, with a postmodern critical critical
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theory, uh, uh, in terms of literature, because the story changes over time.
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The meaning changes over time and what the author says it meant changes over time.
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Sure.
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So you don't have any, like, here's what the author means and this is what it means.
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Here's what the author meant here.
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Then 10 years later, this is what the author said they meant and so on and so forth.
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And so with the Bene Gesserit, the question that becomes clear over time is one of agency.
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Who is responsible for what and the accounting they're in, uh, if, if that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:03.920)
Well, they're responsible for everything, right then?
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Right.
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So that's the question.
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Like when you're, when you're watching this movie, uh, and looking at the thematic elements
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of, of agency, can you give somebody else the power over the Bene Gesserit is a question.
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Like when somebody makes a decision, do they decide it or is it the result of somebody
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else's bullshit?
Unknown Speaker (00:32:29.000)
Uh, I mean, on, on some level, everything is the result of someone else's bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:35.319)
Sure.
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But, um, I mean, the only times that they're like even directly involved in stuff like,
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uh, Paul putting his hand in the thing, the pain machine or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:45.079)
Sure.
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And so, you know, there is no real choice there.
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There's a needle to his neck, right?
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You know?
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Um, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:32:53.400)
I, I, I feel like I got to see the, the, the rest of it before I, before I really say,
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but going back to like the, everyone feeling more like characters, that does touch on agency
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because it did feel to be more agency, uh, of all of the people who were involved in
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every, uh, aspect of the story.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:15.460)
So when you're, when you're saying, does anyone have agency over the Bene Gesserit?
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Maybe not in the grander picture that isn't really shown in this first part, but everyone
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appears to have more.
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Right.
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Right.
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It's the appearance.
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It's the appearance of so much.
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So much of this is based entirely upon appearance.
Unknown Speaker (00:33:37.099)
You know, it's, it is how big can we make this spaceship just to deliver one small tiny
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guy?
Unknown Speaker (00:33:45.839)
Do you know what I mean?
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Small tiny guy.
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What is, what is the agency?
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Small tiny guy, the guy at the very beginning, whenever, uh, Oscar Isaac is standing there,
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we got the legions of Atreides shoulders.
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I think that that was like a, this movie's version of the guy in the worm tank.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:02.200)
Yeah.
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I think it was executed much better.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:04.440)
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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A lot better.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:08.440)
Yeah.
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Um, but yeah.
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You were going to say, well, you know, that scene does have, you know, Leto having to
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make the choice of accepting this, uh, stewardship of Arrakis, uh, but is it a choice?
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Right.
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That's the thing.
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But he, he's able to portray that, like it did feel like there isn't really a choice,
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but I'm also making a choice.
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Right.
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So like that, that complexity of it comes across in the movie as opposed to, just seemed
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like a good business decision that someone was making in the first movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:44.199)
Yeah, we're, Hey, we're going to make a lot more money if we show up here, as opposed
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to, I think that this guy might be fucking with us and that we have to do it, but also
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maybe we shouldn't, but also there's only one way to go.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:55.679)
Yeah.
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And if we want to be able to make it through this, there needs to be a strategy, which
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is desert power, which I thought was clunky, but whatever.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:06.239)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:07.239)
It's always tough whenever you, whenever you pull a line directly from a book after you've
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had a screenplay written around it by people in 2020, you know, you're, you're pulling
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a line from the past, literally.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:20.639)
It's a guy going, we need desert power.
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Sounds ridiculous.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:24.159)
Well, it sounds like it should have a guitar lick after it.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:26.840)
Totally, totally.
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But if you're talking about people at the time, it was like, we need nuclear power.
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Like that's just a totally normal way of describing things.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.159)
That's fine.
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But now it sounds weird and clunky and stupid.
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And especially, I mean, just because we're on the subject, the end of the movie, being
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Paul, seeing someone writing a word and then him being like desert power, like I thought
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that was fucking garbage, but still fine.
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I don't hate it.
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I'm not mad at it, but that sucked.
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If it was, if it was a, if it was a hair metal video, you'd be like, that's the way to end
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a movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:02.920)
Yeah, I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:05.840)
I guess that's kind of tipping my hand a little bit and that is that I did like this.
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I thought it was really good.
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I thought it was very well made movie and enough so that even though I think that last
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line and uh, uh, what's her name?
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Johnny.
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Johnny's response.
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Yeah.
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It's just the beginning.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:23.360)
Yeah.
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Also sucked.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:25.360)
That is a very annoying thing to end a movie with.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:26.360)
I thought those were awful end lines.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:27.360)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But I still will forgive it because I thought it was good enough that it got me.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:32.119)
It is, it is probably, I mean, without question, when I watched that, I texted my dad, like
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we have very few genuine deep connections, but he gave me Dune, you know, that's, that's
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the part of the daddy issues there.
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Ah, now this is coming into focus.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:50.639)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:51.639)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:52.639)
Oh, Frank Herbert and daddy issues.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:53.639)
Nah.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:54.639)
Um, so, so it was like, this is the version that is as close to something that's in my
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head as, as I think I've seen from any sci-fi, uh, translation from novel to a screen.
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So it was kind of amazing to see, uh, truly.
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I can imagine, I can imagine that being a pretty watershed moment of, uh, when you're
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in that theater.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:16.179)
Oh yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:17.179)
It was, uh, yeah, man, it's a big moment.
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It really is.
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It really is weird.
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Let me ask you, cause you were growing up as a Dune fan.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:26.719)
Growing up as a Dune fan.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:27.880)
And so like you have the books and you like those, but really the depiction you have is
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the 84 David Lynch movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:34.239)
I did not see the David Lynch movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:37.119)
Well, yeah, I did.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.119)
I mean, we watched it regularly when I was 15 or 16.
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So me and a few friends of mine would watch bad movies, you know, and just, it would be
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like our MST3K, you know, we'd just riff over movies a bunch of times.
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And then we turned the 84 Lynch into one of the movies that we would just show random
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people.
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So we'd get together.
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Try to freak them out.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:02.320)
Yeah.
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It would be a weird freak out.
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Or like, Oh, somebody's dating somebody new.
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Guess what?
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We're watching Dune tonight.
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And then it'd just be the like five of us staring at this stranger being like, they
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tried and failed.
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They tried and died.
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So there's not, there's not a lot of respect that you had for the, and that's gotta be
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a pretty weird state to be in where you have something that you have a sincere fandom for.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:24.599)
And then the, the sort of authoritative existing depiction of it kind of sucks.
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What's great about that?
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And then you get to a point in life when something really good gets made.
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Whew.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:36.320)
Sure.
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It's got, that's a lot of emotions.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:38.559)
Well, I think what's great about the 84 version is that it does a really good job of puncturing
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any kind of a sci-fi gravitas you might have regarding Dune.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:50.119)
Once you watch the 84 version, you're like, am I really going to get super excited about
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worms?
Unknown Speaker (00:38:56.719)
I saw those worms and in my head they looked real cool.
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But now that I see them on the screen, I feel like maybe this is a little bit more silly
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and maybe I shouldn't treat it as these worms are scary.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:10.159)
That takes away from the point of the material, as I understand it, the worms should not be
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silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:17.539)
No.
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There is a spiritual level to Shai-Hulud and that comes, obviously comes through better
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in this one than the first one, but that's the problem.
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It takes this thing and the thing that you're supposed to be feeling about it, you're laughing
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about instead.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:33.920)
Yes.
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And that, that's kind of a difficult way to engage with the thing that you like, I imagine.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:37.880)
It can be, but I'm trying to think of a parallel and I'm having a tough time.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:41.360)
It's a better place to have a distance from.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:45.480)
It's much better, like as a sincere fan of something, which I don't know if I can even
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be, you know, like my form of being a sincere fan is to tinker and take it apart and see
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how it's made and then try and make something better out of it or make something different,
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you know?
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And so if you take too seriously, or at least too seriously with the religious front, you're
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going to wind up going crazy because it doesn't make sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:16.280)
It doesn't.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:17.280)
It makes enough sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:18.280)
It does.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:19.280)
I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:20.280)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:21.280)
I mean in the same way that the interstellar spice trade makes enough sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:24.639)
I'm sure if you got granular with it, it wouldn't hold up.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:27.920)
I mean, I wouldn't read the orange Catholic Bible.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:31.880)
That's what I'll say.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:32.880)
Frank Herbert?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:34.880)
Oh.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:35.880)
Well, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:36.880)
I mean, it's the in universe Bible.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:37.960)
They did that?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:39.000)
That the Ben of Jesuit write.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:41.280)
Did Frank Herbert write that?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:42.360)
I don't know if he wrote the whole thing, but he wrote a lot of it.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:46.599)
Oh, okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:47.599)
I'm going to read that.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:49.599)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:50.599)
No, I'm not going to read it.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:52.599)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:53.599)
So as far as where we begin, we've got-
Unknown Speaker (00:40:56.440)
Yeah, let's get to the beginning.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:58.159)
Yeah, I was going to say.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:59.159)
We've got the opening.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:01.440)
Really the movie really gets going as far as the overarching plot.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:06.000)
Real quick, just to touch back on the point that I made about the Fremen speaking first.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:10.440)
It contextualizes everything as we don't care that the Harkonnens are leaving.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:16.320)
Who are our next oppressors going to be?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:18.519)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:19.519)
And that makes the story that prism as opposed to you fully siding.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:26.280)
If you watch the first one, you're supposed to fully side with the Atreides.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:29.000)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:30.000)
They're the heroes.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:31.000)
They're literally the best.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:32.000)
Whereas in this one, you start off on a different foot, and I think it's a much better enterprise.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:35.320)
Anyway, go ahead.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:36.320)
I'm sorry.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:37.320)
The main character's Dune.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:38.320)
Ooh.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:39.320)
In case you were wondering, let's pull it back, man.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:42.880)
Yeah, man.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:43.880)
The main character's Dune or the main character's time?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:47.320)
What?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:48.320)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:49.320)
So how do we start?
Unknown Speaker (00:41:51.000)
The story really gets going once Paul has the Gom Jabbar to his throat with the Reverend
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Mother Gaius Helen Mohirrim or whatever her name is.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:04.159)
His mom seemed a lot more conflicted in this version, which made sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:09.440)
So in this space, Jessica is standing outside.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:15.280)
She's not a Reverend Mother yet.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:17.119)
So she is just kind of somebody who was raised by the Bene Gesserit, trained in a lot of
Unknown Speaker (00:42:22.679)
the stuff that they do, and then was meant to be a breeding mother for Duke Leto.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:29.199)
Because she takes agency in a way that she's not supposed to, she gives birth to Paul.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:35.159)
And that's what starts everything along this whole shebang.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:39.840)
And she seemed to have more of, again, the word agency comes up.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:47.039)
She has much more of the appearance of agency in her character in this than the other depiction.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:51.880)
I thought she was great in this movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:54.199)
And it felt more like she was there, as opposed to out of nowhere, she gets the Fredman guy
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by the neck at the end or towards the end, and they're like, oh, you can fight?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:03.760)
Fuck yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:04.760)
Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:05.760)
It felt more like there was like, oh, she can stand on her own a bit here.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:09.260)
She's got the weirding way, as opposed to having a thing around her neck going ba ba.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:15.880)
Which is still not funny.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:18.760)
That was not missed.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:20.320)
Yeah, it wasn't missed?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:21.320)
You didn't miss that part?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.039)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:24.039)
So here's something that I guess I was sort of confused about in the last one, but I didn't
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articulate it.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:31.119)
She could choose if she had a son?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:33.639)
Yes, there we go.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:34.639)
So that's something that can be done in the Dune world?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:35.960)
That's something they can do in the Dune world, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:38.039)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:39.039)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:40.039)
That's a cognizant choice.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:41.039)
So the Bene Gesserit are the drivers of this story in a bunch of different ways.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:46.880)
But first and foremost is, they have the ability to control their, you know, enzymes and shit
Unknown Speaker (00:43:54.360)
and so on and so forth.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:55.679)
Their inner biology.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:56.679)
Is that from The Spice?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:57.679)
Yeah, probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:58.679)
Probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:59.679)
Eh, who cares?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:00.679)
Great, great.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:01.679)
Who cares?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:02.679)
I will tell you this.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:03.679)
The answer should always just be probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:04.679)
The amount of stuff Frank Herbert knows about women in the 60s and 70s?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:10.599)
Low, probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:11.599)
Very low.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:12.599)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:13.599)
Very low.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:14.599)
So much to be said about the word hysteria, you know?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:20.280)
But so she can control whether or not she gives birth to a boy or a girl.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:24.239)
They can also control whether or not, you know, somebody gets a disease.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:29.940)
So when you see Baron Harkonnen, Baron Harkonnen is Jessica's dad.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:34.920)
What?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:35.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:36.920)
I didn't know that.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:38.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:39.559)
And Jessica's mom.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:40.559)
Wait, so the houses are already combined?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:43.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:44.159)
They don't even need to do the thing with Sting.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:45.880)
Well.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:46.880)
The Sting thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:47.880)
Well, so there was a thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:50.599)
So it's just like a spiral inbreeding program that Frank Herbert's created.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:54.840)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:55.840)
That is super gross, but is meant to create the super being.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:59.880)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:00.880)
Now.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:01.880)
I get that conceptually.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:02.880)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:03.880)
Now the problem there, again, is where we get back to postmodern critical theory, is
Unknown Speaker (00:45:07.980)
if you have a group of characters who start having a eugenics program, that's what it
Unknown Speaker (00:45:13.039)
is, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:14.039)
So if you keep writing about a eugenics program, you are talking about your thoughts on the
Unknown Speaker (00:45:18.760)
eugenics program now.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:20.360)
You are no longer just observing that a eugenics program existed.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:24.000)
Yeah, probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:25.360)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:26.360)
So, I mean, I didn't realize that Jessica was Harkonnen's daughter.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:31.079)
That's strange.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:32.079)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:33.079)
It puts things into, I don't actually know if I care, but while we're on the subject
Unknown Speaker (00:45:38.460)
of Harkonnen, like this version a lot better.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:41.280)
Oh, you did?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:42.280)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:43.280)
Really?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:44.280)
Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:45.280)
Oh, come on.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:46.280)
You like the Skarsgard?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:47.280)
I think I do.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:48.280)
I understand he's more threatening.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:49.280)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:50.280)
But he didn't pull a heart plug.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:51.280)
Not one heart plug.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:52.280)
No, that's true.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:53.280)
That was something that was missed.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:54.599)
I thought that touch was an interesting form of evil and like menace.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.320)
Truly, really fucking crazy, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:02.239)
But, having seen both versions, the 84 one is fucking goofy as shit.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:08.679)
It's so silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:09.679)
It's a Captain Planet villain.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:12.039)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:13.039)
In the moment, I could suspend disbelief enough to take him seriously as a villainous figure,
Unknown Speaker (00:46:20.639)
but like with some context, absolutely not, with a little bit of time, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:25.920)
I look back on him as a goofball, maybe a murderous goofball, but still, too silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:34.000)
So I like that portrayal of him because yes, he's very intimidating and yes, his plans
Unknown Speaker (00:46:41.599)
are very, very brilliant, but he's also supposed to be like disease.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:46.000)
He's coded syphilitic insane because again, Jessica's mom was a Bene Gesserit and she
Unknown Speaker (00:46:52.320)
gave him a disease to make him do this, to make him go degenerate and insane because
Unknown Speaker (00:46:57.639)
he's an awful, horrible... Anyways, but that whole thing, that whole breeding program lasts
Unknown Speaker (00:47:05.159)
for thousands of years and it leads to this exact moment starting our story.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:10.519)
And that is where Paul starts to dream of Johnny.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:14.360)
That's the center of the whole idea, that whole show me the waters of your home world
Unknown Speaker (00:47:19.719)
thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:21.840)
She is as undeveloped in this movie as the first one, but I get a sense she'll be very
Unknown Speaker (00:47:27.400)
important in the second one, so it makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:30.119)
Yeah, because you just don't know her yet.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:31.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:32.880)
He hasn't lived there.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:33.880)
Whereas I still don't know her in the first one.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:35.960)
No, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:36.960)
At all.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:37.960)
You don't know her in Blade Runner, that's where you know...
Unknown Speaker (00:47:41.360)
The actress.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:42.360)
Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:44.360)
No, so when we go to Dune and you start to see all of the spice infect Paul, that's where
Unknown Speaker (00:47:54.360)
I would say time introduces the character.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:59.039)
He also didn't end up taking a pellet of spice at any point in this.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:03.639)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:04.639)
That sort of happened naturally by being on the planet, which I thought was probably better.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:09.119)
Yeah, it's there.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:10.800)
That happens later on in the books, but in the original Dune, Frank Herbert was very
Unknown Speaker (00:48:16.460)
much of the sci-fi pellet, is the form of food.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:21.880)
In the future, it's all going to be pellet based, definitely that kind of sci-fi version.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:29.400)
But whenever Paul is able to separate where he is, where he goes all Kurt Vonnegut style
Unknown Speaker (00:48:36.199)
on us, he's seeing the future, he's seeing the past, he's seeing the present all at the
Unknown Speaker (00:48:40.880)
same time, that is where the overall theme of agency is established.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:49.079)
If you can see the future and the past and you're the only person who can make any of
Unknown Speaker (00:48:55.380)
those things happen, then you're the only person with agency, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:49:00.960)
I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:01.960)
I'm following you.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:02.960)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:03.960)
I'm not saying I agree necessarily, but I'm following you.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:05.639)
If it is because of you that everything happens, you're the only person who can be responsible
Unknown Speaker (00:49:12.659)
for stuff.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:13.659)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:14.659)
So that question is first raised with Leto.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:19.000)
I don't have a choice.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:20.320)
I have a choice, but I don't have a choice.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:22.639)
Do I?
Unknown Speaker (00:49:23.639)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:24.639)
Do I have a choice?
Unknown Speaker (00:49:25.800)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (00:49:26.800)
You have a choice how to respond, but you don't really have a choice.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:29.960)
Well, you could say Leto could have said no, and then he would have had to start a war,
Unknown Speaker (00:49:37.679)
which he would probably have lost, which would have led to his people doing a thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:42.840)
But he also could have gone along with it and not sent Duncan Idaho to go make contact
Unknown Speaker (00:49:47.400)
with the Fremen and set that in motion.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:49.679)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:50.679)
So there are choices that there is still agency even within the lack of agency of the choice
Unknown Speaker (00:49:57.000)
of going there.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:58.159)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:59.159)
The space that it goes from there, especially once you get into Duncan, who you don't even
Unknown Speaker (00:50:06.559)
know, but Duncan is a time traveler.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:09.800)
I don't even know where to begin with Duncan.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:11.559)
We'll have to get to that next time probably.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:13.119)
Duncan's such a great example of that other ever-changing... No, this is totally what
Unknown Speaker (00:50:18.179)
I meant when I wrote it in the past.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:20.000)
No, I told you.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:21.000)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:22.000)
This is what I meant.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:23.000)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:24.000)
No, no, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:25.000)
I know you might have thought that I did.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:26.000)
Momoa was better.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:27.000)
Momoa was great.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:28.000)
Just while we're on that.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:29.000)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:30.000)
He was much cooler.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:31.000)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:32.000)
Cool dude.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:33.000)
Sword master.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:34.000)
Did not feel that way in the 84 version.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:35.760)
Not really.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:36.760)
No.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:37.760)
Nope.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:38.760)
But before we get to go all the way with the spice and the Kwisatz Haderach and all
Unknown Speaker (00:50:46.079)
that stuff, we have to get past the Harkonnens killing everybody.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:50.519)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:51.519)
Right?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:52.519)
Well, let's even pump the brakes a little bit more because there's another scene that's
Unknown Speaker (00:50:55.440)
the same as in the first one, which is the hunter-seeker.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:58.960)
Oh, the hunter-seeker?
Unknown Speaker (00:51:00.480)
And I will say, much better done.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:02.699)
Not as loud.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:03.699)
Not as loud.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:04.699)
Smaller.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:05.699)
Much smaller.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:06.699)
Not bright as a thing, so it's more difficult to see.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:13.000)
There was a bush in the room.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:15.360)
Paul was sort of hiding behind a hologram of a bush.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:18.920)
There's a lot more that makes that not feel silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:23.119)
Yeah, like a weird hot dog was floating in the middle of a room that somebody grabbed.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:28.800)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:30.039)
It would require some sort of training, ability to control one's body, and then quick super
Unknown Speaker (00:51:35.719)
movements to catch it.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:37.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:38.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:39.119)
That went down smoother.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:43.880)
Your shout-out to the Mapes was there.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:48.880)
I think that that role is also better with the presenting of the knife.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:54.360)
There seemed to be more import there.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:56.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:57.320)
The Chris knife is the tooth of a sand worm.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:01.519)
You can only draw it.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:02.719)
Every time you draw it, you have to draw blood, otherwise you can't put it back.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:05.960)
Oh, is that why people were cutting themselves?
Unknown Speaker (00:52:07.920)
That's why everybody cut their hands whenever they pulled it out.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:10.679)
Gotta cut your hand, put it back in.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:12.099)
You can only unsheathe it if you draw blood, et cetera.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:14.920)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:15.920)
Well, that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:16.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:17.920)
Pretty cool.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:18.920)
I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:19.920)
That's what people do in the desert, I suppose.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:20.920)
Seems fucking unnecessary.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:21.920)
It does.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:22.920)
Probably, considering the amount of water they find so important to keep, always cutting
Unknown Speaker (00:52:28.840)
their hands open is probably a bad idea, but what are you going to do?
Unknown Speaker (00:52:33.119)
I'm not one to tell other planets how to live.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:36.320)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:37.320)
So we got the hunter seeker.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:38.320)
Caught it.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:39.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:40.320)
Boom.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:41.320)
Not safe.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:42.320)
Dr. Ewee, betrayal.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:45.400)
Can't believe it.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:46.639)
Can't believe the guy would betray you.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:48.260)
Remember the tooth.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:49.260)
Remember the tooth.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:50.800)
Which do you prefer?
Unknown Speaker (00:52:51.800)
Which tooth scene do you prefer?
Unknown Speaker (00:52:53.920)
Think it's obvious.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:57.639)
I think this one was better, and then I got kind of worried, because I thought that... Well,
Unknown Speaker (00:53:03.599)
actually, I think it was better done that everyone in the room died, but Baron Harkinian
Unknown Speaker (00:53:11.559)
didn't, because he put up his shield.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:14.000)
So that makes sense, as opposed to in the first one, where it was super targeted poison.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:18.480)
It was really crazy.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:20.280)
But I was a little bit worried that he was going to have all the blisters and shit after
Unknown Speaker (00:53:23.760)
that.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:24.760)
I thought, oh, this is how that's going to happen, and I didn't want to look at it.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:27.599)
So I'm glad that that didn't happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:31.760)
I thought that scene was better done.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:33.800)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:34.800)
Chomp.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:35.800)
Chomp.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:36.800)
It is kind of amazing, the... It is crazy both ways.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:45.039)
It's crazy both ways to have a guy just suddenly bite down a tooth and then spread poison all
Unknown Speaker (00:53:49.840)
over everywhere, and then you see a guy floating up in the ceiling going, I'm alive!
Unknown Speaker (00:53:54.320)
I'm alive!
Unknown Speaker (00:53:55.320)
I'm alive!
Unknown Speaker (00:53:56.320)
I think if someone floats and you don't understand really why he does, it's always going to be
Unknown Speaker (00:54:00.199)
a little silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:01.199)
Yeah, that's fair.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:02.199)
Because that part was still visually a little bit silly.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:06.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:07.159)
The idea is he's gross.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:08.760)
He can't walk.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:09.760)
He's fat, and his body is diseased, and he can't, so he's got suspension things that
Unknown Speaker (00:54:16.960)
allow him to float.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:17.960)
But no one else can float.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:18.960)
Other people float.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:19.960)
That's actually true.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:20.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:21.960)
Sardaukar.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:22.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:23.960)
The army, they sort of float.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:24.960)
They're pretty scary in this, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:54:25.960)
A little bit.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:26.960)
Yeah, I mean, sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:27.960)
I'm told they're supposed to be scary.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:29.239)
They're scarier.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:30.239)
Everyone's scary.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:31.239)
Everyone's killing each other.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:32.239)
Everybody is a lot scarier in this.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:33.239)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:34.239)
A lot less...
Unknown Speaker (00:54:35.239)
Less silly goofball shit.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:36.719)
But yeah, so Baron Harkonnen's got his... no sting!
Unknown Speaker (00:54:42.639)
No sting.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:43.940)
Part two gives us a sting.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:45.159)
Oh, okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:46.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:47.159)
But we don't get a sting in part one.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:48.159)
We just got Dave Bautista being the other guy.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:49.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:50.960)
The thick, thick... are they both his nephew?
Unknown Speaker (00:54:54.079)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:55.079)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:56.079)
Bautista's great.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:57.079)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:58.079)
He's a pro wrestler.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:00.320)
I know a bit about him.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:01.440)
Do you?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:02.440)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:03.440)
What do you know about him?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:04.440)
He was in a stable called Evolution.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:05.440)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:06.440)
Along with Ric Flair.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:07.440)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:08.440)
Triple H.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:09.440)
Really?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:10.440)
Randy Orton.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:11.440)
How old is David Bautista?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:12.440)
He's old.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:13.440)
He's old?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:14.440)
He was a grandpa back then.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:15.440)
Jesus Christ.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:16.440)
I don't even know how old I am.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:17.440)
Me and my buddy Nikki Gifts.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:18.440)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:19.440)
We just call him the wrestling grandpa.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:20.440)
Because he was a...
Unknown Speaker (00:55:22.440)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:24.079)
He is old.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:25.079)
He's pretty old.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:26.079)
Maybe he's the best wrestler turned actor.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:28.920)
What's your opinion?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:29.920)
I have a limited sample size of things I've seen him in, but he was good in this.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:35.039)
It was a limited role.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:36.480)
How about Hulk Hogan as Mr. Nanny?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:39.480)
Hulk Hogan.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:40.480)
Terry Bollea.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:41.480)
Sucks.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:42.480)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:43.480)
Sucks.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:44.480)
Yeah, that's definitely true.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:45.480)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:46.480)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:47.480)
Macho Man Randy Savage was great in Spider-Man.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:48.480)
Spider-Man.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:49.480)
He was...
Unknown Speaker (00:55:50.480)
Bonesaw was ready.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:51.480)
He was ready.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:52.480)
So he got that.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:53.480)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:54.480)
The body, the mind of Ventura has been great in portraying himself as a conspiracy dipshit.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:01.480)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:02.480)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:03.480)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:04.480)
He also did a really great handshake.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:05.480)
He wrote your favorite book.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:06.960)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:07.960)
How do you pronounce it without laughing?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:16.360)
See here's the thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:17.360)
Here's the thing.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:18.360)
When you actually start getting into wrestlers who act, shit gets a little bit deeper because
Unknown Speaker (00:56:22.719)
the WWE used to put out like movies starring the wrestlers and some of those are atrocious.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:29.159)
So you have things with like Dean Ambrose in them and Kane.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:32.599)
I think Kane did a Christmas movie, maybe The Undertaker is in that too.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:36.440)
I'm not sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:37.440)
Kane did a Christmas movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:38.440)
We might have to watch all of those.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:40.119)
Wait.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:41.119)
Wait.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:42.119)
Kane, the person or the character Kane was in a Christmas movie?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:45.440)
The person who is also like the mayor now.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:48.159)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:49.159)
Now.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:50.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:51.159)
Glenn Jacobs.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:52.159)
Is Kane in a Christmas movie?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:53.159)
I believe so.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:54.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:55.159)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:56.159)
I might be making all of this up.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:57.159)
What does Kane feel about Christmas?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:58.159)
He hates it.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:01.159)
I know Garfield was not a fan of Christmas.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:03.679)
That makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:04.679)
I don't know how Kane might feel about Christmas.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:08.960)
So when you get back to the wrestler question.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:11.360)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:12.360)
The Rock is fine.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:14.599)
I think.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:15.599)
Oh, that's right.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:16.599)
He counts as an actor and a wrestler.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:18.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:19.119)
He might not have as much range and charm as people initially thought.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:24.559)
Like, I think he was real good out of the gate.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:27.760)
And then maybe he's fizzled a little bit.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:31.239)
And then John Cena is fantastic in the ways that he can be used in.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:37.039)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:38.039)
He has a good comic sensibility about himself.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:40.500)
He never takes himself too seriously.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:42.719)
He's believable enough as an action star, so he's good in like the fast movies.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:46.639)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:47.639)
I don't know, I would say if Batista is as good as everyone says he is, then him and
Unknown Speaker (00:57:52.920)
John Cena are probably up there in the top echelon.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:55.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:56.320)
John Cena.
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Rock a little bit below.
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I'm.
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Hogan way down.
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Oh boy.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:01.320)
On the bottom.
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Under the ground.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:03.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:04.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:05.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:06.320)
No holds barred.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:07.320)
I hadn't thought about John Cena too much because John Cena is a bit of a weird one
Unknown Speaker (00:58:10.760)
in terms of being an actor.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:12.960)
Why is that?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:13.960)
He's just John Cena in different ways.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:16.079)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:17.079)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:18.079)
But I mean not even like different ways, just like here's John Cena if John Cena was doing
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this.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:23.159)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:24.159)
And then you go, ah, John Cena.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:25.159)
What are you doing?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:26.159)
I think I've conflated things.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:27.559)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:28.559)
I just want to make a quick clarification because I've looked this up.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:30.199)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:31.199)
I believe Kane was in a movie called See No Evil, which was a horror movie but was maybe
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not a Christmas movie.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:37.239)
I think there was a Christmas movie somewhere.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:39.039)
Oh my God.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:40.039)
Kane saves Christmas?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:41.400)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:42.400)
He's from hell, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:58:43.400)
Um, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:44.400)
Canonically?
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Where is he from?
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He's not just from like Georgia.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:48.039)
So The Undertaker and Kane are brothers.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:50.519)
Right.
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And initially Undertaker said that Kane had set their childhood home on fire and it burned
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down and killed their parents and he died in the fire as well.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:00.639)
Right!
Unknown Speaker (00:59:01.639)
That's right.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:02.639)
I remember that now.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:03.639)
But then Paul Bearer, who maybe was supposed to be dead, came back and he found Kane and
Unknown Speaker (00:59:08.139)
then it turns out that The Undertaker had burned down their family's home or something.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:12.840)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:13.840)
And so, boy, the lore gets messy.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:16.880)
Yeah, I mean...
Unknown Speaker (00:59:17.880)
I think he was just dead, he was supposed to be dead, and then I just pulled up a list
Unknown Speaker (00:59:22.119)
of the films produced by the WWE.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:24.920)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:26.159)
How many Christmas movies has the WWE made?
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So we've got The Scorpion King.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:31.239)
Sure, that's definitely The Rock, yeah.
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The Rundown, another Rock.
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All right.
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Going hard with The Rock initially.
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Walking Tall also.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:38.559)
Oh, I remember Walking Tall.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:40.199)
What am I thinking of?
Unknown Speaker (00:59:41.880)
I have no idea.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:43.280)
Hmm.
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Dune Part 2.
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Jingle All The Way 2?
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Jingle All The Way 2?
Unknown Speaker (00:59:51.880)
That's not what I'm thinking of.
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But that apparently featured wrestler Santino Marella.
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I like that.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:59.119)
I like that idea of WWE just taking other movies and then adding just Predator 6.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:05.480)
Just as many as they possibly can.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:07.440)
Fuck it.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:08.440)
Yeah, that's fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:09.440)
Batista was good.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:10.440)
I enjoyed him.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:11.440)
Anyways, back at it.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:12.440)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:13.440)
So, once we get to The Betrayal, it is full speed ahead, Jake and Paul, not Jake and Paul,
Unknown Speaker (01:00:22.159)
Jessica and Paul.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:23.159)
You're thinking of Jake Paul.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:24.159)
Jake Paul.
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Completely different guy.
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Jessica and Paul sent into the wilderness.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:31.119)
Where do you think the next movie is going to differ from 84?
Unknown Speaker (01:00:35.239)
Boy, I hope in a lot of ways.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:37.320)
In a lot of ways?
Unknown Speaker (01:00:38.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:39.320)
If anything, do you want from the 84 version to come back into part two?
Unknown Speaker (01:00:44.719)
Well, that's something I was actually thinking about.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:47.519)
I think I've already said quite a bit that the depictions of things were better in this
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one.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:54.239)
Totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:55.239)
Especially when there is one-to-one comparisons, like the Lito saving scene, the hunter seeker.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:00.960)
Those things are just demonstrably better in this version.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:04.280)
I was trying to think, is there anything that is demonstrably better in the old version?
Unknown Speaker (01:01:09.000)
I can't think of anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:10.440)
Can't think of anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:11.440)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:12.440)
Oh, boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:13.440)
I mean, this does not have Patrick Stewart in it, and I can think of very few times where
Unknown Speaker (01:01:20.280)
I don't want Patrick Stewart involved.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:22.880)
He's enjoyable, and that is fine, but it's not necessary.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:27.079)
Aw.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:28.079)
Sorry, Pat.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:30.079)
Sorry.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:31.079)
We got Brolin.
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We got Brolin.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:33.480)
We're going to make do.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:34.480)
Brolin did a great job.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:35.480)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:36.480)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:37.480)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:38.480)
Let me ask you one question.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:39.480)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:40.480)
So this might not be something that's within your pay grade to answer for me.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:43.599)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:44.599)
I'm to understand that there's no computers, and there are just people computers, and this,
Unknown Speaker (01:01:51.000)
you told me, this was not something I got from the movies.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:54.199)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:01:55.199)
There was AI rose up, and they had to destroy all of the computers in a jihad.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:01.239)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:02.239)
Right?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:03.239)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:04.239)
This happened.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:05.239)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:06.239)
In the year that we're given, 11,000.
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10,000.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:09.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:10.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:11.559)
There's way up there.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:12.559)
Something along those lines.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:13.559)
So that begins with the Butlerian jihad.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:15.480)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:16.480)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:17.480)
That was a while back, people, probably around our time, made AI.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:21.840)
AI was great, enslaved all of us because it's smarter than we are.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:26.119)
Oh, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:27.119)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:28.119)
Real bummer.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:29.119)
Then some people had a whole Joan of Arc moment.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:32.639)
Frank Herbert's son wrote a bad book about it, maybe more than one, and so then they
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were like, hey, no more machines, no more thinking machines.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:43.820)
Is this an overcorrection?
Unknown Speaker (01:02:45.320)
Not important.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:46.320)
No one can ever make machines again.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:48.840)
And then they genetically forced people- Made juice drinking robot people.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:54.679)
Essentially part of the Dune universe is whether or not epigenetics can be forced by just torturing
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people.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:02.119)
If you torture somebody enough in the Dune universe or specifically in Atreides or main
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character shield of any kind, if you torture them enough, they will get magic powers.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:11.920)
That is an important aspect of the Dune-iverse.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:15.260)
You got to torture people.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:18.239)
And then they can become robot people.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:19.320)
And then they can become robot people.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:20.920)
So now this is all good and well, I mean, it's not, but fine.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:26.679)
There are definitely machines and they would require processing power.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:31.880)
So, something has changed.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:34.199)
They are not thinking machines though.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:36.280)
Some of them would have to be.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:37.280)
No, they don't have to be thinking machines.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:38.699)
They would.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:39.699)
They're probably not.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:40.699)
They are.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:41.699)
They're probably not.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:42.699)
They have to in order to do the things that they're doing in the movie.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:46.400)
They are.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:47.400)
These machines are not sophisticated enough.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:51.880)
The distinction would be automatic ice cream maker versus hand crank.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:56.880)
Everything would have to be hand crank ice cream machines in this world and it is not.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:01.239)
So there's a plot hole there.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:02.639)
My man, you don't even know about the Tylax yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:04.599)
No, I don't know anything about him.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:05.840)
You don't even know that there's a whole planet of people.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:08.800)
I don't know if you've caught on to a lot of sci-fi from this time period or not, but
Unknown Speaker (01:04:13.780)
a planet should just be called a, everybody from here is the same.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:18.719)
Right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:20.599)
So everybody from Tylax is a Tylaxu and they are the people who make all the machines for
Unknown Speaker (01:04:26.000)
everybody.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:27.000)
And they're totally not thinking machines.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:28.920)
Nobody's making a thinking machine.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:30.039)
That would be crazy.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:31.039)
Did Herbert Sun write another book about this?
Unknown Speaker (01:04:32.960)
They're thinking machines.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:33.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:34.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:35.960)
I mean, it's nitpicking a little bit, but it was something that I was like, wait, the
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whole premise of this is supposed to, you've set a limitation for the machinery that's
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supposed to exist in this universe and you're flagrantly breaking it.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:48.440)
See, that's another aspect of where we are in the story, in how things change in that
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critical theory.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:58.219)
That's going to change.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:59.219)
It always changes.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:00.219)
The rule, any established rule has to be an established rule, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:05:07.000)
Because if you break it, then there's no point in me believing anything that you have to
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say.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:11.639)
So whenever you say, you know, like, okay, Dr. Yui is an Imperial Sook doctor conditioned.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:18.480)
They cannot break your trust.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:20.159)
That's the whole purpose.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:22.360)
That's the guy who betrays you.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:23.960)
Then what you're telling me is either you cannot be trusted as an author.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:28.940)
There's unreliable rule sets.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:31.039)
On purpose or not on purpose.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:35.460)
Which you hope it's the prior, but then you have to find a reason for the prior.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:40.039)
And then it doesn't matter eventually if it changes.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:44.500)
So if you got everything right, if you've got it and he says he did it on purpose and
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all this, and this is the purpose.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:50.519)
And then 10 years later, well, that's not why he did it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:54.119)
And then you write another book with different thoughts on it.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:57.460)
So then you can no longer trust him and his thoughts on his own book don't really fucking
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matter anymore.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:01.960)
Do they?
Unknown Speaker (01:06:02.960)
No, because they're the public's.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:03.960)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:04.960)
They're the people's.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:05.960)
You only have the form of communication is not what the author says about the book.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:10.079)
It is the book.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:11.239)
You can only communicate with the book, not with the author or what they say they think
Unknown Speaker (01:06:15.380)
about the book.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:16.380)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:17.380)
That kind of thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:18.380)
And in this case, the movie, because I haven't read the book, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:06:22.139)
The source material.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:23.440)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:24.440)
Well, that kind of thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:26.920)
One thing I thought also, another little thing was that I thought it was much more understandable
Unknown Speaker (01:06:33.820)
that there was a population on Arrakis in this than in the 84 one.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:39.280)
There actually seemed to be people like the pilgrims at the gate and stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:44.960)
Whereas in the other one, it felt like there's just these Fremen warrior people, it didn't
Unknown Speaker (01:06:51.599)
feel like a full population of people, whereas this did.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:56.039)
It kind of felt better.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:58.280)
The siege scenes and the explanation of the water of life at the siege table.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:05.719)
Do you remember whenever he was like, no one would ever drink of this?
Unknown Speaker (01:07:08.920)
Oh no, they haven't been there yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:10.559)
Shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:11.559)
Well, spoilers.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:12.559)
No, no, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:13.559)
In the 84 version, whenever they go to the sieges.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:14.559)
Yeah, I remember that.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:15.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:16.559)
And he's standing there and he's speaking to the what are supposed to be millions of
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people or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:21.820)
You don't get that scale at all.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:24.639)
They try to do as best as you can in 84 version of giving that scale, but I don't think it
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plays whatsoever.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:31.699)
In this and in part two, you're going to get a much better view of the Fremen people.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:37.159)
And it's really, really well done.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:40.360)
I really, really liked this.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:41.679)
Yeah, it felt more of a fuller body of people than in the other one.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:48.119)
The other one just felt like kind of plot device-y.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:50.039)
Yep, yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:51.039)
And then they forced us to stop the movie.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:54.679)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:56.679)
So the other thing too that you really can feel more in this one is, so in the first
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movie, I think you could be forgiven if you get to the end and you think, well, if they
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just let the Atreides run the planet, everything would have been good.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:16.880)
Paul would have been a good ruler.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:18.899)
And then, because that's kind of what it feels like in the Lynch version, whereas in this
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version, it doesn't really feel that way.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:29.159)
It feels like Leto is a benevolent good person as a whole, like as evidenced by him valuing
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human life over this commodity, but it doesn't feel like he would actually represent the
Unknown Speaker (01:08:47.439)
interests of the people indigenous to Arrakis.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:51.899)
He would be more willing to work with them in some kind of an alliance, but he seems
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like the ideas of what they're interested in is entirely foreign to him.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:03.279)
And so there's the idea that he's being presented as a benevolent choice, but he is not really,
Unknown Speaker (01:09:10.159)
whereas that's absent in the first one.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:12.720)
The first one is just a tragedy of like, oh, if only it had worked out, Paul would have
Unknown Speaker (01:09:17.000)
brought Rayne eventually, it's just he decided to go this route because the Harkonnens fucked
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him over.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:22.000)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:23.000)
And that I think is a much more complicated and interesting story.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:26.079)
Right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:27.079)
It is what I find interesting about that observation so much is that this is the era where we begin
Unknown Speaker (01:09:34.960)
to get the intergalactic space treaties are everything kind of trope.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:40.119)
You know, when we deal with sci-fi or the space weirdos now on Carrie, we're always
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talking about intergalactic space treaties.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:48.720)
The germination of that is actually the morality question.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:52.680)
The good versus evil guys in all of these hard sci-fi things are people who honor space
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treaties or who break space treaties.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:00.760)
And it is not as complicated as they would.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:03.560)
It's like a way of doing a very simple good versus evil with a false layer of complication
Unknown Speaker (01:10:10.399)
on top of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:11.399)
You know, this is the good guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:12.760)
The good guy drinks from this well, the bad guy drinks from this well.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:15.760)
Right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:16.760)
It is that exact same thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:17.960)
But it gives you this kind of bigger, oh, it's more important because it's not just,
Unknown Speaker (01:10:23.399)
you know, water or something like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:26.079)
But that, again, is part of that, like, the more important something appears, the less
Unknown Speaker (01:10:31.079)
important it actually is throughout the whole kind of cosmology of the piece, if you will.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:39.479)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:40.479)
And I think it has a fuller perspective, for sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:44.560)
And I appreciate that.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:45.560)
And it made it more enjoyable as a watch.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:48.279)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:49.279)
Then I think we've got one thing to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:51.800)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:52.800)
What?
Unknown Speaker (01:10:53.800)
Well, I'm not done yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:54.800)
Oh, you're not done yet?
Unknown Speaker (01:10:55.800)
I had another thought I needed to throw at you.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:56.800)
Oh, give me one more thought.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:57.800)
The one thing that stuck out, then I was like, what the fuck is going on here?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:04.039)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:05.039)
So the Atreides show up on Arrakis, and they have bagpipes.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:11.920)
So that threw me off.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:13.600)
We're in the year 11,000 or whatever, we're way in the future, and bagpipes are what has
Unknown Speaker (01:11:20.560)
stood the test of time as a...
Unknown Speaker (01:11:22.840)
What did you expect?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:23.840)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:24.840)
What did you expect?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:25.840)
A guitar?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:26.840)
A harp?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:27.840)
A tuba?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:28.840)
No, the bagpipe.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:29.840)
The bagpipe exists throughout all spacetime.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:32.640)
You gotta remember something, right?
Unknown Speaker (01:11:34.960)
Spacetime is a thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:36.199)
It's one thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:37.340)
It's not like we live in space and time.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:40.560)
We are in spacetime.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:43.039)
And bagpipes...
Unknown Speaker (01:11:44.039)
Shut up.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:45.039)
Shut up.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:46.039)
Here's the problem.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:47.039)
Are the beginning and the end of spacetime.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:48.960)
Those bagpipes are exactly the same as our universe's earth bagpipes.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:54.119)
So there is an implication that there is probably some sort of a connection or lineage that
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goes from those bagpipes to the people who are playing the fanfare for the arrival at
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Arrakis.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:05.039)
Of course.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:06.039)
Now.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:07.039)
Here's where I get fucked up about that.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:08.039)
Where?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:09.039)
You know what exists at the same time as bagpipes?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:10.039)
What?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:11.039)
Fucking helicopters.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:12.039)
That's true.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:13.039)
So we end up with dragonfly machines in bagpipes in this universe, and it doesn't make sense.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:20.920)
It's infuriating.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:23.600)
If you're gonna have independent inventions, you can't also have the same inventions with
Unknown Speaker (01:12:28.600)
even less changes.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:29.680)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:30.680)
It's not a variation of a bagpipe or something like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:34.800)
I do like the idea of, in this multiverse, we can change anything.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:38.800)
Any little aspect can be changed.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:40.239)
But let me tell you something.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:41.640)
The guy who invented the bagpipes...
Unknown Speaker (01:12:43.479)
Nailed it.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:44.479)
That is the man who stays.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:46.079)
And it's like...
Unknown Speaker (01:12:47.079)
Fixed point in the universe.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:48.399)
To quote Ryan Reynolds' character in Blade Trinity, just like a great white shark, he's
Unknown Speaker (01:12:53.060)
never had to evolve.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:54.060)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:55.060)
He was born perfect, the bagpipe.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:56.920)
Has never had to evolve into being a dragonfly bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:03.399)
I do like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:05.119)
It's fine.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:06.119)
It was just a little bit distracting.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:07.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:08.119)
But I don't know what would have been.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:09.119)
It's not quite one guy vacuuming a giant pool of slime by himself.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:12.640)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:13.640)
It's not that distracting.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:14.640)
And it didn't sound good.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:15.880)
So I mean, ultimately, the effect was good.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:18.300)
It just was like...
Unknown Speaker (01:13:19.300)
That's very...
Unknown Speaker (01:13:20.300)
It felt anachronistic.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:21.300)
That's what the future can do.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:23.199)
It can make a bagpipe sound good.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:25.720)
It took a bagpipe.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:27.340)
It took tens of thousands of years to get there.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:29.359)
You don't like a bagpipe?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:30.359)
I mean, a bagpipe can be elsewhere.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:33.199)
Wow.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:35.079)
I've never been like, oh man, I missed bagpipes.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:39.600)
If I lived in the future and somebody was bringing a bagpipe up, my reaction would be
Unknown Speaker (01:13:45.359)
like, we didn't get helicopters, but bagpipes stuck around.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:49.840)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:50.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:51.840)
Some people complain that the doors didn't have a bass player in it.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:54.760)
That's not my complaint.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:55.760)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:56.760)
My complaint, no bagpipes.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.760)
No bagpipes?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:58.760)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:59.760)
What else could have been approved with bagpipes?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:00.760)
Just about everything.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:01.760)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:02.760)
Really.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:03.760)
Rolling Stones.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:04.760)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:05.760)
Bob Dylan.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:06.760)
Also Sprock Zarathustra.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:07.760)
Uh-huh.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.760)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:09.760)
I think Chicago, the band.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:11.520)
Chicago, the band, or the city?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:12.960)
They had horns.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:13.960)
They had a lot of horns.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:14.960)
The city has plenty of...
Unknown Speaker (01:14:15.960)
We've got plenty of bagpipes here.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:16.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:17.960)
Our cops love bagpipes and shit, don't they?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:18.960)
The band America.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:19.960)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:20.960)
Europe.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:21.960)
The country of...
Unknown Speaker (01:14:22.960)
Berlin.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:23.960)
Berlin.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:24.960)
Berlin.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:25.960)
All these bands.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:26.960)
But not the country of Europe.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:27.960)
Could have been improved.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:28.960)
Could have been.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:29.960)
A little bit of bagpipe.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:30.960)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:31.960)
I'm trying to think if there's any other thoughts that I had, just generally speaking.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:33.960)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:34.960)
The shields still look bad.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:36.800)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:38.279)
But better.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:39.279)
I mean...
Unknown Speaker (01:14:40.279)
But that's just a technological thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:42.760)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:43.760)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:44.760)
The problem with the shield is it is so much a narrative device.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:50.199)
It exists purely because if it doesn't exist, then so much of the story can't happen.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:56.359)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:57.359)
You know, the only reason that...
Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.079)
I mean, honestly, the only reason that this fight is theoretically happening between the
Unknown Speaker (01:15:03.220)
Emperor and Leto is because of hand-to-hand combat.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:08.439)
Leto trained troops with Jessica's Bene Gesserit skills.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:12.760)
And they're good.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:13.760)
And that means that in order for this whole story to happen, there has to be a reason
Unknown Speaker (01:15:18.000)
that hand-to-hand combat is more important than just having a spaceship that suits a
Unknown Speaker (01:15:21.960)
giant laser at some guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:23.840)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:24.840)
Once you have spaceships with giant lasers, who needs to fucking sword fight?
Unknown Speaker (01:15:29.159)
Now, that being said...
Unknown Speaker (01:15:31.840)
Sword fighting's cool.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:33.039)
Well, when they take over... when there's the attack on the Atreides, the betrayal and
Unknown Speaker (01:15:38.159)
all that.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:39.159)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:40.159)
There are a lot of bombs.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:41.159)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:42.159)
So...
Unknown Speaker (01:15:43.159)
Bombs are still chill.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:44.159)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:45.159)
You can still shoot guns.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:46.159)
Railguns?
Unknown Speaker (01:15:47.159)
It's like a rock from space and it blows up the whole fucking planet.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:50.359)
Hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:51.359)
So it's difficult to talk about the whole plot, because we've only seen the first part.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:57.079)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:58.079)
You know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:16:00.079)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:01.079)
But...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:02.079)
The experience of the first one, the 84 one, was...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:07.359)
I came away from it thinking, like, bah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:10.159)
I've seen it.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:11.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:12.159)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:13.159)
You did it.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:14.159)
Whereas I came away from this thinking, like, I'm gonna watch the next part.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:15.159)
And I did...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:17.479)
I'm not gonna say...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:18.479)
You're looking forward to watching part two.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:20.119)
I am.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:21.119)
I am.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:22.119)
I'm not saying I'm as in as you, certainly.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:23.119)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:24.119)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:25.119)
But definitely I got more of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:28.399)
You all...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:29.399)
I will tell you this.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:31.920)
You're not gonna make it to Children of Dune, my friend.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:34.600)
It's just not gonna happen.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:35.720)
That's a challenge.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:36.720)
That's...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:37.720)
Hey, I wish you the best.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:39.880)
I wish everybody who attempts Children of Dune the best, and I wish everybody who makes
Unknown Speaker (01:16:44.159)
it all the way to the end a Happy New Year.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:46.800)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:47.800)
Well, the challenge...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.800)
The gauntlet has been laid down.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:49.899)
I would suggest just skipping to God Emperor.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:52.119)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:53.119)
You'll get it.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:54.119)
So, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:55.119)
Good stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:56.119)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:57.119)
Good stuff, that's all.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:58.119)
I think...
Unknown Speaker (01:16:59.119)
Let me ask you a question.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:00.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:01.119)
What expectation do you have for part two?
Unknown Speaker (01:17:02.920)
Man.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.920)
What do you think is something that is going to happen for sure that's going to be cool?
Unknown Speaker (01:17:07.880)
I mean, obviously, Paul's gotta ride the worm.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:10.800)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:11.800)
And that's probably a big moment.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.800)
It's gonna be a big moment.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:13.800)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:14.800)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:15.800)
Yeah, that's something that I think is probably...
Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.239)
That's what sticks out the most to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:21.800)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:22.800)
I mean, obviously, the end of the movie, of this first part, he sees someone riding a
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.720)
worm.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:27.720)
Somebody's riding a worm.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:28.720)
He looks pretty into it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:29.720)
It's pretty cool.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:30.720)
So, obviously, that's...
Unknown Speaker (01:17:31.720)
If you're ending on that note, then there's gonna be...
Unknown Speaker (01:17:33.920)
There's gonna be a worm.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:34.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:35.920)
There's gonna be a worm riding scene.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:36.920)
I'm having a lot of difficulty thinking about what the fuck's gonna happen in the second
Unknown Speaker (01:17:40.359)
one.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:41.359)
But, obviously, as I understand it, structurally, this first one was about the first part of
Unknown Speaker (01:17:47.159)
the first movie.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:48.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:49.159)
And then the second part's gonna be the second part.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:50.159)
Basically.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:51.159)
And then she was insane.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:52.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:53.159)
So, I don't want to imagine.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:54.159)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:55.159)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:56.159)
I just wanna see.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:57.159)
I wanna experience it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:58.159)
Whatever happens, happens.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:59.159)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:00.159)
It'll obviously be different.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:01.159)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:02.159)
And that's good.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:03.159)
It'll be better to talk about it in...
Unknown Speaker (01:18:04.159)
Because if it was the same, but just extended, I think I'd have a problem with that.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:07.039)
I think it'll be interesting, because I think... Well, I'll be interested to find out what
Unknown Speaker (01:18:12.279)
context you get about the other movie from this movie, and then what's different.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:19.720)
Mm-hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:20.720)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (01:18:21.720)
Lots gonna be different.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:22.720)
I think that's essentially the whole point of us talking about this.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:25.239)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:26.239)
And then, once I've seen that, we'll have a better ability to try and see if there are
Unknown Speaker (01:18:30.159)
little pieces of Alex lore that can be teased out.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:34.680)
You got it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:35.680)
So that, I guess, will be next time.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:38.279)
I think that's the idea.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:39.279)
Coming up.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:40.279)
Indeed.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.279)
Sweet.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:42.279)
Yeah?
Unknown Speaker (01:18:43.279)
Well, you've got me hooked a little.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:46.239)
I've been dune-ed.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:47.520)
You've been...
Unknown Speaker (01:18:48.520)
We're not gonna...
Unknown Speaker (01:18:49.520)
You dune-ed it.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:50.520)
I've enjoyed a piece of dune media.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:56.039)
That is the best that any of us can hope for.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:57.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:58.880)
At the end of the day.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:59.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:00.880)
That's pretty good.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:01.880)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.880)
Then we'll see you next week.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:04.600)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:05.600)
Definitely.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:06.600)
Woo!
Unknown Speaker (01:19:07.600)
Yeah!
Unknown Speaker (01:19:08.600)
Woo!
Unknown Speaker (01:19:09.600)
Yeah!
Unknown Speaker (01:19:10.600)
Woo!
Unknown Speaker (01:19:11.600)
And now, here comes the sex robots.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:12.600)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:13.600)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:14.600)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:15.600)
Hello, Alex.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:16.600)
I'm a first time caller.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:17.600)
I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:18.600)
I love your work.
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