Transcript/794: January 30-February 2, 2004

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Theme Song (00:00:04.000)

Red Alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Acknowledged five days. Damn, Jordan, I'm sweating. Knowledge party.com It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge like knowledge. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys. Xiang Ji or the bad guy knowledge. Dan and Jordan knowledge fight. Need money. Thank you. Andy and Sandy are shopping Andy and Pam handy in Kansas. And the Kansas surely are. Huge fan. I love your knowledge by now knowledge fight.com

Dan (00:00:59.000)

Hey, everybody, welcome back to knowledge Friday. I'm Dan. I'm George. We're a couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of saline and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed.

Jordan (00:01:08.000)

We are Dan,

Dan (00:01:10.000)

Georgia. Dan Jordan, I

Jordan (00:01:11.000)

have a quick question for you. What's your bright spot today, buddy?

Dan (00:01:14.000)

I say you go first. Oh,

Jordan (00:01:16.000)

well, my bright spot is obviously a combination of enjoying my time. With my wife in Toronto. We had a great time in the Great North. Oh, absolutely. We walked across the entire city of Toronto. It's a beautiful city. Did

Dan (00:01:30.000)

you have a pedometer on she she's got

Jordan (00:01:33.000)

her she had her Little Apple Watch. Yeah. And then we yeah, we officially walked I think like 28 miles or something like that. Nice. And in five days, your steps in the steps in and then you know, combine that with? I'm happy to be back. Sure. It's good to it's good to go. You got to go away to come back. That's right. You know, that's the way it's got to be. Absolutely. So it feels good. You don't

Dan (00:01:55.000)

know what Chip God?

Jordan (00:01:59.000)

Absolutely. You've never been anywhere until you got home. Mm, deep, deep thought

Dan (00:02:05.000)

quite deep. What was your? What was your favorite thing that you got to do while you're up there in Canada? Um,

Jordan (00:02:11.000)

I mean, I think one we went to one of the we went to the cool hip, new cocktail bar that that has no sign. It's one of those places. So it's

Dan (00:02:24.000)

like kind of pretending it's an old speakeasy. Yes. Yeah.

Jordan (00:02:27.000)

You can't find it. It's all of that noise. And yeah, it was. The drinks were fantastic. You know, they were they were some of the best cocktails I've ever had in my life. And the experience of that is fun, too. But at the same time, it's it's fucking bourgeois bullshit. You're sitting there and you're like, What are you people doing here? This everybody's got man buns, which I'm not complaining about. Oh, you hate you, too. Oh, and again, you do? Yeah, I'm not saying that. But whenever you've got an entire staff of man buns, you've made a choice. Do you know what I made me have a pack of mine. Exactly. Exactly. There's there's definitely that so that was that was really interesting. We went to medieval times. Sure. We were hosting. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Is. It was her first time going. So everything that was happening, she was just like, Why? Why is this going? It's

Dan (00:03:13.000)

a lot. It's a lot to take in. Yeah. If you if you've never been I've only been once Yeah. And I speak from my first time it was a lot. Yeah, me and my friend Angela lamps. Barry went and it was disorienting.

Jordan (00:03:28.000)

He's a little bit like, I don't understand quite what we're doing here.

Dan (00:03:32.000)

They don't let you have silverware. They want you to call people wenches can't handle

Jordan (00:03:37.000)

it. We freaked out. She was like our server. Oh, I love it when you call me which please call me which and I'm sitting here going like this is either I can't I can't do it. Yeah, cannot call you which Woman Yeah.

Dan (00:03:53.000)

I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast or even in person with you off the podcast but when we went we were waiting in line at the bar and the guy in front of us got cut off used to drunk cut off y'all boy it's like the woman who was working couldn't give him more beer and so he threw his cup at Oh no, your honor and it's so terrible because he couldn't break character right? It was just oh my god felt so bad for quite a bit to try and make up for it but like, God What an asshole. Yeah, he

Jordan (00:04:28.000)

do. We tipped very well. Is it is like you've made you've you've made everyone call you a winch I need to give you more money for I don't know how to help you.

Dan (00:04:36.000)

I assume that everyone who works there kind of enjoys that aesthetic stuff, but it feels to me like a renaissance fair full of people who aren't passionate about Yes, yes. And that sucks. Yeah.

Jordan (00:04:49.000)

But the horse dressage is amazing. Like as far as as far as I did the Valkyrie that was great. You it is it is majestic to watch A bird fly like that. It's

Dan (00:05:01.000)

pretty wild to be sitting in the stands. And it just goes like, control. Yeah,

Jordan (00:05:07.000)

it's very cool. It's very cool. Um, yeah, that says, yeah, what's your bright spot?

Dan (00:05:11.000)

Well, I have a twofold bright spot. My first is a thank you to you for doing that interview with Jeff Charlotte. Oh, yeah. I'm really excited about how, you know, this series, let's say or whatever, these interviews that you've done, it's really it's really awesome. To be able to show the audience a little more of you, you know what I mean? Like,

Jordan (00:05:36.000)

no, no, we talked about this, right? I loved being the dumb guy. That was great. Now, here we are, I'm

Dan (00:05:44.000)

screwed. Right? I know. Now, there's so much expectation. Exactly. We've broken the premise of do this. But you know, I'm beyond that. Or leaving that to the side, if you will. Um, you know, I know that you're a smart guy and what have you. There's a lot of bullying and good fun on the show, of course, but it is, it is great to have something where you can shine and show. Sure. So I that's that's really a bright spot for me, because it sometimes does feel like there's an unnecessary, like heightening of my knowledge. Prepare for the bride. Right? And that, you know, to have the context when you continue to even the scales a little except you don't like that.

Jordan (00:06:29.000)

Like where things are. So maybe it's no, it's very much thank you very much. But the compliment is very appreciate.

Dan (00:06:36.000)

Well, don't let it go to your head. I won't my brother is I got a message over the time that you were away. And I had forgotten that I hadn't taken it down. But our GoFundMe for the button. Time hit its goal. Oh, hey. So now we have officially over the course of these two GoFundMe campaigns. One for reproductive health care access the other for the Transgender Law Center for just over $35,000 These campaigns and so thank you all so much to everybody who has has been a part of it. It's so It's so thrilling to be able to be a part of that ourselves. Yeah,

Jordan (00:07:18.000)

I know. It sucks that I'm about $32,000 less, but uh, but you know, it's good.

Dan (00:07:24.000)

Sure. That took a bath on this one, but it's worth it. And this leads me to another thing. Yes. Which is in terms of the buttons to Wonka buttons have been accounted for. Hmm, but guess what? What the third one was found what? Yes. Holy shit. This has been an exciting day. Fiona out in Scotland. Oh, she found the third one. I believe it was in a mailbox or something and was not found until later. But I'm so thrilled that it didn't get lost in the mail or, or something. And so all the brightspot buttons have found their home. Amazing. So congratulations, Fiona. I'm gonna do a song from Willy Wonka

Jordan (00:08:10.000)

with me, and we'll be

Dan (00:08:19.000)

trying to think of another song. I can't do but what other songs are there? There's candy man.

Jordan (00:08:27.000)

Oh, yeah, there is the candy man. Yeah, go for it.

Dan (00:08:32.000)

I got a golden ticket. That is that is that it's not really a song. What about the part where the grandpa jumps out of bed? Doo doo doo doo.

Jordan (00:08:39.000)

I suppose that will count as a jig more than a song but I'll take it.

Dan (00:08:43.000)

But buddy Nate burrows had a great joke about that. Oh, yeah. About how his reaction to the grandpa getting out of bed is like you could walk this whole time. Yeah. Yeah, just start chipping in around here.

Jordan (00:08:58.000)

I appreciate what I what I loved the most about it is how much of a struggle it was at first and then how quickly everyone forgets that this man was not able to walk just a short while ago. No, he was. He was able to walk the entire time, which is maybe the problem. Yeah.

Dan (00:09:14.000)

So Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. And well, here's the thing. Trump got arrested while you were gone. Yeah, I've heard that. And I think a lot of people probably want us to cover that stretch of time. Sure. I would say that. It's not as fulfilling as you want it to be. It's actually a lot of virulent transphobia. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't necessarily want our return we haven't recorded in over a week. It's been over a week, so I didn't want it to be just a beating over the head with awful things. It isn't Welcome back from vacation, which we can do for Wednesday. You're certainly we can loop back to this week. not saying we're not going to cover it, of course, but I felt like a reunion. We needed something else a hated something that didn't have a like real blah, yeah. flavor to it. So I'm sticking around to the past. Okay. And we're going to be talking about January 30 to February 2 2004. All right. Do you know what happens during that time? I do not. I'll give you a spoiler. Okay. The Super Bowl. Ah,

Jordan (00:10:23.000)

okay. Wait, what year is that? 2004. So that would have been? Who? Let's go with? Wait. 2004 was that the year the bears were in the Super Bowl? I don't know the team with a no, that was probably 2003. Or no, this would have been the 2003 2004 season. This may have been when Devin Hester opened the Super Bowl with a kickoff return for a touchdown on the season that he was absolutely amazing for and then the bears lost by 40 points.

Dan (00:10:59.000)

I can tell you, whatever the teams were, or whatever the sport of it was. Yeah, that is not what it's remember. This is the Janet Jackson. Oh, this

Jordan (00:11:10.000)

is that one? Yes. All right. So no, it was uh, that would have been wasn't that the Pats would have been another Pat Super Bowl. Patriots. Who cares?

Dan (00:11:19.000)

I don't all I know is what Alex talks about. And the things I looked into because of that, right? The team's never come up. Okay, well, that makes sense. And this actually isn't the sharp focus of the episode. But it does come into the February 2 episode, because that's on a Monday, right. So we're talking about a February our Friday to Monday gotcha thing and the Superbowl is over that week. Okay. So we'll get down to business on this and have our little return voyage. But before we do, let's take a little moment say hello to some new walk ons. Great idea. So first, I started a new job and had to sign a non compete agreement. Thank you so much. You're on our policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:11:58.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Jordan (00:11:59.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:12:00.000)

That's fun. Next, I say cool beans all the time to thank you so much. You're now policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:12:05.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Jordan (00:12:06.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:12:07.000)

maski question about Cool beans. What about it? How do you spell cool?

Jordan (00:12:11.000)

C O L

Dan (00:12:12.000)

so it's not a Ke? WL No,

Jordan (00:12:14.000)

no, no, I don't have I don't have a K WL in me.

Dan (00:12:17.000)

I seem to recall a lot of people who are cool beans people spelling it that I have

Jordan (00:12:21.000)

literally never spelled the word cool with a que in my life. All right, except for the cigarettes.

Dan (00:12:27.000)

Oh, sure. Yeah. House of cool. Menthol. Yeah. Anyway, next. Hello, Benny B. I told you I'd shout you out. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

Alex Jones (00:12:36.000)

I'm a policy wonk, thank

Dan (00:12:37.000)

you very much. And we got some technocrats in the mix. So he three a trio of technocrats luck out. So first, Hey, James. This is Danny. You'd better be studying cybersecurity right now. Thank you so much. We're now with technocrat bill from Toronto father of Harrison and Lachlan, thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. And my son wants me to submit Deez Nuts for this. But instead I'm just gonna say Happy 13th birthday. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat.

Alex Jones (00:13:04.000)

I'm a policy wonk. I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow. Actually. I'm just gonna take a little break now. A little breaky for me. And then we're going to come back. And I'm going to start the show over. But I'm the devil a lot out there. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you. But at the end of the day, Fuck you and your new world order. And fuck the horse she wrote in on and all your shit. Maybe today screwball is broadcast. Maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years. Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow. And you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on here. I'll be better tomorrow.

Dan (00:13:58.000)

He's not. He's bad. Terrible. And we will talk about that in the present day on on Wednesday. For now, he's just being bad in the past. He's not he's not I'll be better tomorrow. No, he's not. It's yeah, I'll be better yesterday. Yeah, he's not still not no, no. So we start off here on January 30. And Alex is complaining about listening to a caller on Rush Limbaugh, who is listening to some rush, which he does because he's just doing a rush he's doing Yeah, totally. But he heard something that he deems to be slick propaganda to what he's describing.

Alex Jones (00:14:34.000)

So yesterday, I get off air and I'm flipping around to radio stations, and I'm here to Limbaugh and very sophisticated propaganda. He's going well, yeah, what Bush is doing, I apologize for having to say that it's it's wrong, but Bush is dealing with big government, but what are you going to do and Well, I tell you, Bush, you know, he got control the ship but he just is having trouble slowing it down. The lady on the phone said no He's accelerating the speed of the cruise ship. And Limbaugh just set on now and just just hung up on it. And well, you know, what are you gonna do? You know, you still got to vote for Bush, because, you know, we can't have the Democrats in there. And yeah, we just got to get used to it, you know, so the government's grown by 45% in the last three years. And so, you know, all these federal programs are getting expanded and all this but well, you know, Bush just can't help it. And

Dan (00:15:31.000)

so the thing that Alex is complaining about Russia doing here is exactly how he operates in the present day as it relates to Trump. Alex has, in effect become the thing that he hated in the past and called sophisticated propaganda

Jordan (00:15:45.000)

god damn abyss always looking back.

Dan (00:15:47.000)

Oh, in the case of Russia, it's that Russia is making excuses for Bush's tendency toward big government and appealing to how the alternative is way worse in order to make sporting Bush more appealing to the audience. Compare that to the extreme levels of rationalization Alex does for Trump where he has to tell the audience complicated stories about how Trump put out the COVID vaccine, but he didn't know what he was doing or that he was tricked by the globalists into doing it. every bad thing Trump does has an in world explanation that at least partially exonerates him from full blame. And think about how Alex has created a world for his audience where you have to support Trump, at least partially because the alternative is the Democrats who he's trained the audience to believe are literally demon possessed pedophiles who want to drink your children's blood.

Jordan (00:16:32.000)

Yeah, it's tough to walk back from that one. Yeah, you can't really de escalate from Hey, guys, I got this one wrong. The Democrats are fine. I misread. That's, that's no, that's not gonna happen. Yeah.

Dan (00:16:44.000)

Little late, no, turns out the Democrats are getting a lot better. What? Okay, in the past, Alex called this behavior, sophisticated propaganda. And on some level, he's right. It's at least somewhat manipulative persuasion. But part of the reason he's attacking Russia like this in the past is that he didn't understand the game Russia was playing, because Alex had the luxury of not being invested in electoral politics. electoral politics is at best an attempt to get a representative into office, who will try to get your preferred policies made into law. The candidates themselves aren't human embodiments of these policies, and people have some maturity, recognize that even if a person you want to win gets into office, that doesn't guarantee the policy you want will pass simultaneously, you recognize that if the person you support loses, that's not the end of the road for you supporting the policies that you support. That's something that exists on a plane above the election. The election is just an opportunity to put into office, people you believe will help support the policy you want to see enacted. At its worst electoral politics is essentially a boxing match. It's a singular event that happens and then once it's happened, your person is in or they're not. When you're an entertainer on the political space, and you don't foster any deeper appreciation for what politics is in your audience. This is how you have to interact with elections, building towards a climactic conflict and building the tension around that event drives ratings and gets listeners excited. In 2003. Alex wasn't on some mature tip when he was actually above focusing on electoral politics, but he was pretending to be and that was a solid brand, and allowed him to make criticisms of this, like this of rush. And at this point, it's really hard to argue with his point, in order to support Bush rush does need to make a bunch of rationalizations and appeal to lesser of two evil arguments. Because the end goal of winning the election is all that's important there. Russia is more of a GOP shill and but he and Alex are both entertainers. It's just at this point, Alex was pretending to be more than that. Now that Alex has taken a bite from that forbidden fruit of supporting a candidate who won the election and seeing how much money he was able to make off centering his entire coverage and worldview around propping up the central figure he finds himself in a similar position to where Russia was in 2004. The big difference is that Russia never cried on air about how Bush was a God appointed king or how he was willing to die for Bush. Alex is essentially a comically desperate version of what he called sophisticated neocon propaganda in the past. And you know, it's it's fun to see these glimpses because another thing you can take away from it is that Alex understands this in the present day. He knows these techniques he knows, like very valid criticisms of the very things that he's doing. Yeah, it's not some like he's not totally Magoo. No, no, no,

Jordan (00:19:37.000)

I do appreciate also, the difference between him and Russia in this sophisticated propaganda is that rush can be like, wow, you know, yes, he's expanding federal programs, but he's also doing this better. Rush it can you imagine Russia? 2004 be like, yes, Bush did kill 17 million Americans with a poison shot. Of course he did. We all We'll

Dan (00:20:00.000)

know that yes, but you still got mean to the woke liberal. Exactly.

Jordan (00:20:04.000)

Exactly. That is, that's where we're at as far as Alex's argument, you know.

Dan (00:20:11.000)

And he has a character that I can project onto him that he's going to do the things that we want this time around. Yeah. All right. Yeah. lies

Jordan (00:20:19.000)

to us the way we want to be lied to, as opposed to Bush, who lied to us in the wrong way.

Dan (00:20:25.000)

Yeah, yep. Yep. And I guess when I said that, I think he's kind of right about it being sophisticated propaganda. I agree. It's propaganda. It's not very sophistic. No, no, no, no. So I wanted to clarify,

Jordan (00:20:35.000)

it's, it's it's bare bones, propaganda, but it's there, you know? Sure. Yeah.

Dan (00:20:40.000)

So Alex gets to lying here about his interview with Ann Coulter. And I think that this is something that's worth noting, because there are these trends that we can track when we listen to his show over time. That is the development of myth, essentially, where the reality is overtaken by the false version of the story.

Alex Jones (00:21:02.000)

Some people are no go mafia gang culture is good. You know, she speaks out against the liberal. Mom had her on the show, she says, All the Patriot Act is good. And I got a lot about this section. She said, I haven't read the Patriot Act. I go, your new books got a chapter on how good is Kevin read the Patriot Act? She goes, I'm gonna hang up. I'm gonna hang up. We got to re air that sometime. I mean, I still get comments from an interview. And I just said, whoa. And I said, well, our own government admits that they put Mao into power. What do you have to say about that? Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to talk about it. It's true, but I'm not gonna talk about it. Well, Bush sign on the UNESCO I'm not going to talk about it. Well, Bush shine campaign finance reform. I'm not going to talk about it. I mean, you remember folks, what you hear on these other shows? And it's Oh, she's so smart. She's so pretty. She's a conservative. Again, she's right when she talks about how horrible the Liberals are. But, again, that's the Democrat brand of liberal. I mean, it's simple. The Democrats distract. You know, there's the boogeyman, and then Ann Coulter stick she in the back with a stiletto. Yeah, and it's real simple, folks. It's not complex. This is not rocket science. I hate Ann Coulter

Dan (00:22:18.000)

as much as the next guy. But Alex is absolutely lying about how that interview went down. He's creating a myth of how the interview went, which will replace the reality that she was making fun of Alex about how he sounded like a crazy LaRouche follower, and that she didn't say that she never read the Patriot Act. That's not what she said. She was Alex will talk about Patriot Act to do something that didn't exist. Yeah. That was a big high profile interview Alex guy with a major figure in the right wing media and it didn't go well. So he's constructed a self soothing straw man of that interview. He wanted the interview to be a huge dunk so they need to be able to use it to attack and and the wider right wing mainstream media, but he failed. So this is the way that he has to proceed. Also, it's a weird idea that Alex says here where I guess the Democrats play the role of distraction, while the Republicans who are also secretly liberals sneak in and pass liberal policies. Yeah, weird.

Jordan (00:23:12.000)

Yeah, they that's how that makes sense.

Dan (00:23:15.000)

It's interesting, because there's a way to articulate this, that makes some sense, but Alex can't not sensationalized things. I would understand it if he said that his side was way too caught up in attacking Democrats and focusing on what they're doing that they never take the time to pay attention to what's going on in their own party. Sure. Not necessarily that they're passing a liberal, maybe liberal to him, right. Far Right. Extremists shift shift. They spend all day complaining about the Clintons and have no time to hold the GOP politicians feet to the fire. That criticism makes some sense, but Alex is discussing this. It's kind of like it's an intentional plan, where Ann Coulter and the Democrats are working together to run a scam on Alex and his weirdo friends. Yeah, that sort of things become silly. It doesn't. It's not productive.

Jordan (00:24:00.000)

It's a little bit like it's a little bit like you know, that whole before you try and remove the splinter from somebody else's, you know, remove the log from your own. Instead of that. What if instead, it had been like, before you try and remove the evil interdimensional conspiracy. All right. Make sure that you're passing more draconian laws first. Yeah,

Dan (00:24:25.000)

yeah, that makes sense. You sound like Jordan Peterson.

Jordan (00:24:29.000)

Yeah, exactly.

Dan (00:24:31.000)

That's what you gotta do. So, Alex, take some calls. Certainly, that does happen quite a bit here in the past. And we got we got a caller here. Who doesn't like Bush? Oh,

Caller 1 (794) (00:24:44.000)

I really think that I really think that it's a time for great discernment. And I think that your list is certainly our

Alex Jones (00:24:53.000)

well, it doesn't take any great discernment. Yeah, that Mr. New World Order is giving us a new world order. But again he's just a puppet. Yeah, that's right we stopped our focus on the presidency right and and get back down to local levels we could change this but but look, two weeks ago the Neo cons were still going Bush's basically the second coming of Christ and even heard that imply that he's this anointed. He's perfect. He's wonderful. He says courage he's a Vietnam fighter ratio all these incredible lies they imply all this going on just incredible propaganda. And now they're having to go Yeah, it is pretty liberal only because the grass roots has put the heat on them and they're losing all credibility.

Dan (00:25:34.000)

I mean, you just see a mirror Yeah, you know, like yep, Alex crying about how Trump is the God King and all this and then having to because his Vax his bases so severely anti Vax, and all this having to like, be like a while. Okay, he did do operation warp speed. So it's so it's so interesting, just to hear the self condemnation from the past. Yeah, yeah. I

Jordan (00:26:01.000)

mean, it's, it is fascinating to watch what what I would, you know, almost the inverse of how I've always experienced learning as, like a like, he's almost defeating time itself. He's, he's moving backwards in terms of ability to process information. Yeah, it's

Dan (00:26:20.000)

like, you know, you could excuse behaviors of the present almost, I mean, not really, because some of his stuff is far too extreme. Yeah. Well, it'll make sense. Yeah. But you can excuse mistakes and stuff, because you didn't know any better. Sure. But this is demonstrative that he knows totally knows about. He knew better in the past. He knows all this stuff. And he just chooses not to. Yeah, care.

Jordan (00:26:42.000)

You can't unknown anything.

Dan (00:26:44.000)

I mean, you can forget it, but it's still in there. Yeah, it's still up there. You can be negligent. Yeah. But yeah, he's, uh,

Jordan (00:26:52.000)

but that's, that is like, it is interesting to consider this as an argument for maliciousness. Like, imagine, imagine we're in a courtroom. And we're talking about actual malice being implied or being applied to this kind of case. It makes sense for me, if you play this from 20 years ago, and then compare it to this in the present, then that proves malice to me.

Dan (00:27:20.000)

Well, and especially because it's not just some random thing he's talking about. He's talking about this as like propaganda strategies of the globalists. So it's kind of a major part of what he's complaining about the world. Yeah, it's not just something you would randomly forget. Yeah. Let's say

Jordan (00:27:36.000)

yeah, the the extreme irony of the hashtag Alex Jones was right, is that he was right about how awful he would become.

Dan (00:27:45.000)

Though, if he's worried about anything, that's all he's got. Because he's already backed down on the weed legalization and civilized, totally, kind of don't have much we've got nothing. So Alex has another guest. And the guy who I love his name, Jack Blood.

Jordan (00:28:01.000)

Okay. That can't be as real back blood that can't be as real they

Dan (00:28:05.000)

might be. Oh, boy. What is a name that vampire people would

Jordan (00:28:09.000)

say? Yeah, like, like Thatcher was somebody who built houses and blood with fire. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Blood. Jack, but

Dan (00:28:18.000)

Jack Blood. He's a another talk show hosts, maybe on the GCN. I'm not entirely sure. I can't remember because I think he talks in another episode I listened to I think he talked to another guy who he wanted to get on GCN. I can't remember if that's Jack Blood or not too distracted by his check blood. Yeah. So he is kind of not great. I mean, he's just another Alex.

Alex Jones (00:28:43.000)

Now, the situation with the stage capture of bin Laden. Two years ago, I said my sources, and this is White House folks, that he's died of kidney failure handed over to the family to Bush than a rolling mount before the election. I didn't know that was true. Now, Associated Press military share of catching Bin Laden this year. A lot of bragging Mylan, Albright saying she thinks they're already having. What do you see happening?

Caller 2 (794) (00:29:15.000)

Well, I don't know. First of all, who cares if it's Saddam Hussein or not? Okay. I personally don't think it is. I personally believe the story is that the Kurds had them and turn them over and they went to go find them in that stage public event. And yes, I believe the story is coming out right now that they are going to get bin Laden or someone who looks like them. I mean, this is again, I always feel so strongly that we should be on the right debate. And whether they catch bin Laden or not isn't going to make any difference

Alex Jones (00:29:45.000)

whether right but but this is going to be a major staged event.

Dan (00:29:48.000)

So I got really thrown by him talking about Saddam after that, like I saw it in your face, too. Yeah. And thankfully he did, like weave it back around because it was it seems like a non sequitur or he thought Alex was done. Talking about Saddam. Right. But it was just a weird sentence. Right? Yeah. So Saddam probably not him and staged and bin Laden. Probably going to be staged soon, based on stuff that Steve has told him, and the associated press stuff and all that is like expressions of optimism. Right? Right. Right. Leader. We're

Jordan (00:30:20.000)

gonna get him this time. Yeah. I, I find, historically speaking, that when people want to have quote, the right debate, they are more talking about how they want to talk about what they want to talk about, and everybody else should stop talking about other stuff.

Dan (00:30:41.000)

It's true. Yeah, it's true. So I guess the right debate here is how all of this stuff is actually like, what? Okay, I'm not sure. Not sure if that's super. Yeah. We are all right. So, you know, Chuck, this also up in the Alex Jones was right, PIO, obsession with bin Laden being produced before the 2004. Like, yeah, which definitely happened definitely happened. So we have one last clip from the 30th because it's kind of not a whole lot going on. But Jack Blood gets into a story about a fellow radio host. Okay, that you know, who just got fired, and the reasons for it, okay. And that led me down a path of maybe one of the days that you were gone.

Caller 2 (794) (00:31:24.000)

I mean, if you want to talk about absolutely sick and twisted, just for a quick second. I got a guy on my show. This is a breaking stories. The talk show host out of Omaha, Nebraska and Marty Stacy was just fired, because he started talking again about this Franklin cover up. And I know you've done some work on that as well. Some good work. And here the guy was fired. He interviewed Maureen. Gosh, she was the mother of Johnny gosh. This is one of the boys that was kidnapped and abused by this Franklin cover up group. He testified in a civil suit, which was one in Nebraska after this interview, which was just a couple of weeks ago, Stacey was fired and they give them some lame excuse have been there for five years. On KCRA. In Omaha. Later, Maureen Gosh, Shawnee Gosh, his mother goes into her house and finds a adult doll Okay, mutilated and hanging as a warning inside her house. And he'll Marty will be on my show Monday as well. Well, I want to get Marty Stacy on the we need to help people like this that are brave enough to try to take this to broadcast. It's not a Christian station.

Alex Jones (00:32:31.000)

I mean, the people in Nebraska were convicted. We've had this heavy Republican Party from the state on who brought all this out. I mean, this isn't even debatable. Oh,

Caller 2 (794) (00:32:41.000)

it's on the front page of The New York Times Reagan, homosexual sex rings, all this kind of thing. So I don't know. But here he is talking about it. And he obviously stepped on someone's toes. And now he's paying for it. And I hope to support him.

Alex Jones (00:32:56.000)

It's, it's, it's out of control.

Dan (00:32:59.000)

So I don't know why Marty Stasi was fired. Oh, I'm sorry that I cannot bring you that information I really was hoping for it may be too obscure of a figure to have left much of a trail on the internet. So the way that Jack is telling this story, you would think that it's been proven that this kid Johnny Gotch, was kidnapped by this trafficking ring at the center of the Franklin cover up? It must be the case that there was some evidence or that he came home and you know, they were able to point he was able to point out the people who did it. Sure, but none of that happened. Oh, in the real world, Johnny gotcha was a child who disappeared most likely kidnapped on September 5 1982. While he was out doing his paper route. He lived in Des Moines, Iowa, and he's never been found by most accounts. He's presumed dead. Do you know any of the terms that were being thrown around like the Franklin cover up? None. Okay. No clue. Okay. Yeah. Well, you're in for interesting, right. So this is a messy situation because a lot of the information that's being bounced around by people like Alex and Jack Blood, it comes from Johnny's mother Noreen, and from interpretations made by Satanic Panic enthusiast and your good friend Ted Gunderson. Yeah, there we go. Yep, he's in the mix again. There we go. Not enough people. Not enough people. Yep. It's very difficult to parse facts from fiction and many of the narrators in this story seem kind of unreliable. Take for example, the story that Jack is telling about Noreen coming home to a mutilated doll, which was meant to be a warning. This apparently was after she had done an interview with a completely obscure Christian radio host Marty Stacy on KCRW Oh, in Omaha, that seems like an overreaction from a kidnapper. Particularly given that was over 20 years since Johnny had gone missing. But if you have to understand this in context, Noreen has told some pretty hard to believe stories since her son went missing in 1999. She claimed that two years prior her son now 27 years old visited her randomly one night at 2:30am He was accompanied by another man And who was completely unidentified, but who apparently was in some kind of a supervisory role over Johnny. They talked for about an hour and a half, during which time he told her that he was taken by a pedophile organization, but that he had gotten too old. The details on this are very hazy, and no one has been able to find any evidence that would establish that this meeting ever happened. And based on everything about how people work, it seems unlikely that it did.

Jordan (00:35:23.000)

It's very, it's very dream Logic II.

Dan (00:35:26.000)

But the idea here was that Johnny was alive but couldn't come out of hiding because it wasn't safe right or something he

Jordan (00:35:32.000)

conspiracy would kill him. But still,

Dan (00:35:35.000)

there was this guy who apparently was his handler or something who came along.

Jordan (00:35:39.000)

They just they just don't. Yeah, that's tough. That one's tough.

Dan (00:35:42.000)

In 2006, Noreen claimed that she had found some child exploitation photos on her door, which he determined were of her son. Later, it came out that some of the people in the photos had been identified, and they were from a case in Florida in 1978. Prior to Johnny's disappearance, there's no evidence that anyone in the pictures is Johnny. But there's one picture. There's one person in one of the pictures who wasn't identified who they can't prove is not him, but they also can't prove his him

Jordan (00:36:10.000)

wait. So somebody did leave Child Exploitation material on her on her doorstep,

Dan (00:36:15.000)

it appears so yeah, and no one really knows how those pictures got on her porch. I would say that it seems more likely that was part of a sick prank. Maybe, you know, the book? What are the odds that it was the original kidnapper showing up to her last 20 plus years? Yeah, I mean, I can't that's makes no sense from the mind of a criminal. No, that's

Jordan (00:36:36.000)

implausible to, to a point of impossibility, but but God who would fucking do that? Yeah, that's fucking fucked up.

Dan (00:36:46.000)

Yeah, no matter what. There's a level of like, unacceptability. Yeah, unfathomable ality. So in 1999, Noreen testified in a civil suit that was brought by a man named Paul Bonacci against Larry King, who was the former manager of the Franklin credit union. Okay, not Larry King. No, not to not to not let the ACE Interviewer Right, right. Alright. So there was essentially the Franklin cover up has to do with allegations that this guy Larry King, who was running the Franklin credit union was going to Boystown in Nebraska, which was a like at Youth Risk at risk youth, excuse me. And there was a prostitution ring of minors that was going through that shift. There were like, all kinds of elites that were in there, and he would take kids from Boys Town and take them across the country sure to be exploited by rich and powerful people. And

Jordan (00:37:44.000)

this is Satanic Panic shit.

Dan (00:37:46.000)

More or less. Yeah, okay. Well, yeah, there's Yeah, people give it more credibility than a lot of the other Satanic Panic stuff. But from everything I can tell, most of these allegations are, they cannot be they, some of them can be proven to not be true.

Jordan (00:38:03.000)

Right. Right. Right. But others like, George HW Bush has 7000 people underneath. Yeah, I

Dan (00:38:10.000)

don't know how you can prove right? Some stuff isn't true. Right. That brand of right thing. Gotcha. So this guy Bonacci. He in 1999 was suing Larry King, and Noreen was called in to give testimony. So Bonacci claimed the king had abused him and that he was forced to take part in gotchas, kidnapping, which is how this all ends up being connected to the Franklin such Wow, okay, multiple family members of told authorities that Bonacci was at home at the time of gotchas disappearance. So his claims on that front weren't really taken all that serious wait. So this is the case the Jack Blood is referring to and it wasn't a successful civil suit, except on a technicality. Larry King was the central figure of these allegations in the Franklin case, and that was who Bonacci ended up suing because the other people that he sued were removed from the suit. Right. King was already in jail for embezzlement convictions. And as I understand it, he just didn't respond to the suit. So Bonacci was awarded summary judgment. Right. The facts of that case, were not determined in court, which is what Jack Blood is trying to suggest. And Alex and people who were convicted, yes, Larry King was convicted of embezzlement. Right. So like the actual allegations of like this ritualistic child abuse, that was not something that they were convicted, right, right. I don't want to spend too far afield into the Franklin situation, although because I thought we talked about it before, but I guess not. So we'll talk about it another time that Alex brings it up in more detail, so I'll make this as concise as possible. There were four people who initially made allegations that there was a child trafficking ring run out of Boystown in Omaha with Larry King at the center. Super rich and prominent figures were involved in the ring and there were connections with elites in other parts of the country. When the case was brought before a grand jury. Two of the accusers recanted their eClaims Bonacci was one who didn't. Along with Alicia Owen, the grand jury ended up claiming that the case was a quote, carefully crafted hoax and did not indict any of the accused. But they did indict Bonacci and Owen for perjury. Oh and ended up serving four and a half years in jail on the charge. Months later, a federal grand jury heard the case and arrived at the same conclusion that the accusations were unfounded and they also indicted Owen. The conspiracy around this has continued largely because there was another investigator working on the case named Gary Cara Dhoni. Sorry, Gary Cara Dory. Kara Dory had taken a trip to Chicago in July 1990. Around the time that these grand juries were making their determinations. On his return trip, his small self piloted plane crashed, and he died along with his eight year old son who was also aboard. Naturally, this was the work of the globalist to blew up his plane as part of an elaborate cover up. According to the conspiracy share, the story became that he called his boss before heading back telling him that he had found the smoking gun. And this evidence was destroyed in the every time, I can find no evidence that I find credible that this call was made. But it proves and provides conspiracy theorist with the perfect if only story share, which is a feature of so many of the narratives we end up seeing on Infowars. The crash is sad, but William Bruce, the investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, told the Lincoln star that he'd seen crashes like that in the past, and it appeared that the wings had become separated from the plane. This usually happens in cases where pilots lose control of the plane, they go into a dive, and then their speeds go past what the plane can structurally handle right. There's also speculation that he had hit some bad weather and lost control, which is a plausible scenario. Anyway, the point here is that I can't really prove nothing happened in Omaha, but the allegations that have been made and the things that are claimed to have been covered up just are not proven at all right. One of the people making the allegations who ended up indicted for perjury claimed that he was involved in kidnapping Johnny Gotch, which I think is tough to see as credible. Conscious disappearance was a national story. And his picture was famously, one of the first that was ever put on a milk carton was one of the first milk Kardashians gotcha, it stands to reason that Bonacci might want to connect his own civil suit to that giant media rich story for his own reasons, right. Whatever the case, Bonacci claimed he kidnapped Gotch and then got his mother testified in his civil case about how Johnny had shown up in the middle of the night for a random visit, which no one can verify. It's almost impossible to believe, right? These are things that I'm dubious of, but for someone like Jack Blood, all of this is true and proven. It's all concrete. This is all established fact for him because he wants it to be this narrative structure preserves the organized evil nature of his imaginary enemy team, which is critical to him retaining his own heroic image that he can project onto the audience. Yeah. Further, they're complaining about this Marty Stasi guy getting fired from his radio job, but in reality, there's a decent chance that his broadcast may have been defamatory. If he was covering the subject irresponsibly, odds are that he might have named some names, and the station probably didn't want to deal with that kind of possible trouble. That's something that would have happened to Alex years ago if he had a boss. Yeah. Yeah. So I can see that as being a plausible reason why Marty Stacy got fired if it weren't for any other possible insubordination.

Jordan (00:43:26.000)

With with these with these weirdos Yeah,

Dan (00:43:29.000)

but sorry, sorry for that kind of information dumped. Oh, that

Jordan (00:43:32.000)

was awesome. That is a fascinating story. For the things that did happen. But combined with the things that didn't happen to make a confusing, I mean, God damn. Yeah, like, life is weird is what I keep. When I think about that story. I'm like, everything's fucking weird. I don't know what the fuck is going.

Dan (00:43:55.000)

Yeah, like the Bonacci. fella. He had also made some allegations against like Catholic priests. Sure. And some of that I did not see obviously, they didn't fully investigate those things. But that I could see as being like, they're actually being some abuse. You're involved. And so that's, there's a reason why I don't want to say nothing happened. Yeah, he's just a lie. Right. All right. There's something at the core of this, but it isn't that Larry King was running a big job prostitution ring right out of the Franklin Credit Union.

Jordan (00:44:29.000)

I mean, it's not unreasonable to see that behavior somewhat as PTSD response, any number of different possible explanations for it. I mean, it could it could also have just been a malicious hoax. You know, that's also possible. It just doesn't feel like that's the case. All the way.

Dan (00:44:50.000)

Yeah. I mean, I have I find it very elaborate to be just, like a randomly crafted hoax. Yeah.

Jordan (00:44:56.000)

And and, I mean, but who knows? Yeah, I had Oh no. Yeah, life's weird. Life is weird. Yeah. So, but the reason sometimes there's too many people.

Dan (00:45:06.000)

The reason that I wanted to, like get into some of these threads and how they dispersed and all this and led to, like, kind of dead ends or areas where it's like, I don't know about that. Yeah, yes. Because I wanted to demonstrate that for Jack Blood. This is a very simple story where everything is true. And all of these witnesses are entirely credible. Yeah. And that I don't feel is a good way to approach. I mean, anything to say reporting, but I'm not sure if it's reporting, whatever this is that he's doing dissemination of information. Yeah, there's no I don't, I think it's kind of a way to make do a bad job.

Jordan (00:45:46.000)

Yeah. And I mean, obviously, that's the case. As as some as somebody who tells stories, who writes, you know, all of those things. To me, you're just making a shittier story, in order to exploit it. The interesting story is what we can't find out, you know, is the composition of all of those things and the mysteries that do exist, along with the things that we can solve. That's fascinating. Well,

Dan (00:46:11.000)

but here's the thing, take that exact mentality and apply it to making up whatever you want. You know, like in that in that mystery space, sure. Where you know, anything could be true and nothing can be disproven. Sure. You can make all kinds of sensational shit fit into that box. Right?

Jordan (00:46:27.000)

Right. Right. But the difference there is I don't appreciate being given a an imagination prompt. I would like a story. If you are writing a story, then you have to tell me the story. You cannot give me a prompt for me to fill in the fucking blanks.

Dan (00:46:41.000)

I think he would tell you a story. Give him enough time.

Jordan (00:46:45.000)

All right, fair enough. Jack tells the story of death.

Dan (00:46:49.000)

So we take the old weekend off.

Jordan (00:46:52.000)

Okay. And back in the day. Yeah,

Dan (00:46:55.000)

they come back on a Monday. And Alex has to complain about the Super Bowl.

Alex Jones (00:47:00.000)

I did two radio interviews last night during the Super Bowl. And of course, there was rioting as the drunken mass of animals of Romans went insane when their Patriots won, and I'm sure you enjoy Janet Jackson, with her breasts hanging out on purpose to desensitize your children is that what expect from these degenerates was that way that Apple didn't fall too far from the tree? It's still right next to Michael Jackson didn't while you were all busy doing that I was fighting for this country trying to find to defend the Republic in the final days of this nation in any freedom you ever had. And I'm not saying you're evil. Have you watched the Super Bowl? I'm just glad I didn't grow up.

Dan (00:47:43.000)

Well, while you were doing this stupid Super Bowl stuff. I was fighting for this country by doing an interview for publicity. Yeah,

Jordan (00:47:51.000)

yeah, you know, you're not really you're not really that interesting. If you're like, ah, wrestling is fake. And don't watch football. I understand. You think that by going against the tide? Yeah. Meanwhile,

Dan (00:48:04.000)

you watch the Super Bowl. Yeah, of course you did. You muted it while you were on the phone with whatever. Whatever it was. You watched the dumps and you probably watch wrestling too. Of course, he pulled out the von erichs every time.

Jordan (00:48:17.000)

I mean, every time he's like, I'm not really a science fiction fan or Star Wars fan. I don't really like that stuff, but tell you about Gene Roddenberry hidden. Yeah, I know everything. I know everything.

Dan (00:48:27.000)

So Alex has just decided that Janet Jackson's breast being exposed during the halftime show of the 2004 Super Bowl was intentional, and it was meant to desensitize the children. First of all, I think that children were plenty desensitized in 2004. The internet was widely available and pornography was one click away from anyone who wanted to look at it. There isn't any desensitization value that's going to come from this, like the swimsuit issue and low writer were sold at every grocery store in the country. And really, how much of a difference is it between a tiny bikini and technically seeing a nipple. So really that much difference in terms of desensitization? If anything, the response to that halftime show probably had a reverse effect of desensitization, where children were taught that the nipple is a horribly shameful thing to see in public or expose. I wouldn't be too surprised if there was far more of an impact in that direction. Of of like stigma. stigmatization Yeah, also not for nothing. Janet Jackson has been pretty open about this. And what she went through is really, really shitty. Yeah, her outer layer was supposed to be ripped off to reveal lingerie underneath but it didn't go as planned and for that she was demonized. Well, Justin Timberlake who did the ripping more or less got a free pass. Yep, her career took a massive hit with stations and even MTV not wanting to play her music, which didn't happen for Timberlake. Less Importantly, the backlash to this happening involved halftime shows that we're all old rockers and boring shows like Paul McCartney the Rolling Stones, and Tom Petty was okay, and then Bruce Springsteen, sure. I wouldn't be until 2011. But a modern Act would be featured in the halftime show and that was the Black Eyed Peas are relatively safe. Justin Timberlake came back to perform in 2018.

Jordan (00:50:10.000)

You know what I you know, what I appreciate about being me sometimes is like, I remember when that happened, going, everybody should calm the fuck down. What is happening right now? Right? And you know, 20 years later, I can reflect upon that and be like, Yeah, everybody should have fucking Calm down. What the shit?

Dan (00:50:32.000)

Yeah, what the shit happened? Yeah, people lost their minds.

Jordan (00:50:35.000)

I love being consistent. It's the best. It is the best. I don't have to look back and be like, Oh, I shouldn't have said Nope. 100% right.

Dan (00:50:42.000)

I don't even remember what my reaction was at the time. I think me I was just smoking too much weed. I think

Jordan (00:50:48.000)

the right amount of weed in 2004

Dan (00:50:51.000)

I think I might have been just high all the time sitting in a kiddie pool in my friend's backyard. Was everyone

Jordan (00:50:56.000)

I mean, and that's not that's what is even worse about it. You know, you say porn is a click away. Back then. You didn't have to click, a pop up would show up and there would be a tear

Dan (00:51:07.000)

in your face or there might be you're running that risk would go to your

Jordan (00:51:11.000)

grandparents house. And they would have a toolbar with Ask Jeeves Yahoo. And every time they did anything, porn would just show up and they'd be like, This is weird.

Dan (00:51:21.000)

Yeah. So back to the halftime shows. Yeah, I don't really remember the Janet Jackson. The one happening. Yeah. Like I don't know if I watched that Super Bowl or not. I vaguely remember like, maybe that day or the next day like we look. Whoo. Yeah. But what I do remember is when Bruce Springsteen did the Super Bowl halftime show, he did a little slide across the stage on his knees now and he is nuts at the camera. Granted, it wasn't like a Lenny Kravitz thing where his words popped out. Yeah, he nuts shouted the entire world, man. He did a slide and crotch. Yeah. Camera that That, to me was far more aggressive. Yeah.

Jordan (00:52:02.000)

Yeah, man. Nobody wants a pair of balls in their face. It's never been a thing. No

Dan (00:52:07.000)

wonder if Alex was really pissed off about Lenny Kravitz, as Dick flopping out of his back

Jordan (00:52:11.000)

now. I mean, hey, we've got a fight that episodes and we all we all saw that and we were like nobody's pissed off of it. Lenny Kravitz is like fine, it's time finally time to show the world what it is that I have received from God. As

Dan (00:52:25.000)

I recall his face in the moment was pretty

Dan (00:52:33.000)

anyway, hilarious. So a bit of this episode is going to center around the Oklahoma City bombing, because I guess Alex is interested in that this day. And so here's what he's got.

Alex Jones (00:52:44.000)

Possible. OKC bombing video shows two explosions. The Fairfax County, Virginia home of John cumbered stun. Once a member of former US Representative James tragacanth. Scandal applied to congressional office was raided Friday afternoon, Bahama city police detectives searching for evidence related to the 95 Oklahoma City bombing. Oh, wait a minute searching for evidence. That would mean you didn't already have it. And they go on to admit that Congress has a copy of this and the government declared national security on it won't release it. That's the news story. Why are you writing a congressman's age house? Because they may have this.

Dan (00:53:29.000)

So Alex is just making up all the details that he's not directly reading from an article. They don't say the Congress has a copy of the video in question and that they declared it national security secrets or whatever. Here's what's going on. At this point in 2004. Terry Nichols is about to stand trial for his role in helping Timothy McVeigh pull off Oklahoma City bombing. His defense attorneys are trying like crazy to cast blame anywhere they can in order to plant seeds of reasonable doubt to get him off the hook. It became a whole mess where they were trying to call over 100 Witnesses seeking to bring up insinuations about, quote, a group of bank robbers, Iranians residents of the white supremacist community Elohim city convicted murderer, Chevy, Kehoe, and others. In that context, a lawyer named Tom Mills Jr. claimed the back in 1998. A congressional aide named John Culbertson had showed him pictures of the explosion. Quote, The attorney said the aide told him the photos came from a federal agent who was part of a sting operation that was supposed to stop the bombing but failed. John Culbertson has testified under oath that he has no such evidence and I have a tough time getting a handle on what he's actually all about. In a local news article. He's credited as a former congressional aide and an employee of the Arkansas Chronicle. I found the speech and the Congressional Record the Jim Transcat gave that discussed a review of the Murrah building security prior to the bombing that was conducted by Culbertson. So he was you know, he's traffic hats aide. Sure he's doing a review of their security. Sure. And an article in the New American the publication of the John Birch Society they credited him as a quote construction and demolition analyst. I don't know if that's a credit he has, oh, I have no idea what his real credentials are. But this also appears to be a case where it's more people like they're making stuff up about him and embellishing him than him making it up himself. ROD I can tell Gotcha. So Mills, that lawyer told the nickels defense that he'd seen these photos and on the basis of his affidavit, Culbertson is home was searched, and his computers were seized. Now, here's where things get sticky. Culbertson was an employee of the Arkansas Chronicle, which is barely a real thing, but it does technically exist, and it maybe makes him a journalist. Okay. He was their Washington bureau chief, although at that time, he also might have been their only employee from 1996 to 2000. The publication was run by a man named Jim bolt, who returned after Culbertson. His house was searched as they were looking to transition the publication to being an online only format. At that time, he and Culbertson made up the entire staff of the Chronicle. Naturally, because they were in journalism bolt brought a suit against the search. He tried to sue. Sure, sure, sure. Sure. This is from the Dallas Morning News, quote, under questioning by a state prosecutor, Mr. Bolt acknowledged that he and Mr. Culbertson were the publication's only employees and he gave conflicting answers as to whether he was Mr. Culbertson boss, or vice versa.

Dan (00:56:32.000)

They were running a weird operation here,

Jordan (00:56:36.000)

maybe put the call sheet in the right order.

Dan (00:56:39.000)

So as to the matter of this alleged photograph, quote, in winding and often contentious testimony, Mr. Bolt said Mr. Culbertson had described to him an image he'd seen of the Murrah Building exploding, but that neither he nor Mr. Culbertson had the image that it might have been faked and that Mr. Culbertson said he had never shown it to Mr. Mill's. And here's where things got out of hand. I

Jordan (00:57:02.000)

am blown away by this story continuing. Yes, what is happening?

Dan (00:57:06.000)

It gets so much better. Okay. So the judge in the case, was sure to tell bolt that if he has this alleged photograph, and then he needed to turn it over since it was evidence of a serious crime right. Then the court went on break and bolt faked chest pains so he could go to the house. All right,

Jordan (00:57:24.000)

now we're talking. I like a good old fashioned sitcom. Oh, no, my heart's going. Oh, you mo Nellie.

Dan (00:57:33.000)

The judge told him to return the next day so he could finish testifying, which bolt did not do course he was found in contempt, and they put out an arrest warrant but he dodged it by going back to Arkansas not hiding out. Love it. Yeah, hid out and just didn't show up. Okay. Culbertson showed up the next day and testified that they were just generic images of an explosion, but there was no real way to tell if it was even the MER building or any context around here. Sure, sure. So at this point, the judge said that the hearing was a quote, waste of time. He went on to say, quote, There was absolutely unequivocally no evidence whatsoever of photographs of the Murrah Building blowing up, ie one of Nichols lawyers, Brian Hermanson, who wanted this evidence to be taken seriously because it helped cast doubt on his clients guild even said, quote, When all was said and done, we didn't believe the guy after request. And Tim, after he faked a heart attack that just seemed a little contrived.

Jordan (00:58:29.000)

I mean, the moment you fake a heart attack, you either win or lose. You know, it feels like if he got back to Arkansas with no negative consequences for this, I mean, other than he can't go, he's got an outstanding arrest warrant in a different state. I think he crushed it.

Dan (00:58:43.000)

I'm not sure I did not follow the trail of where Jim bolt went. But yeah, he may have got off might have been arrested at some point. Kind of like the guy. It's that it's that American con my

Jordan (00:58:57.000)

do i do like a good fake fake chest fangs run away?

Dan (00:59:01.000)

I love it. So now almost certainly the Arkansas chronicle is not a legitimate publication. And it's a little iffy about whether or not they merit the standard protections for journalists. But even leaving that aside, Culbertson and the Chronicle one their case on the grounds that the search warrant did not include probable cause for the search, and he was awarded $60,000. Okay. Anyway, as is so often the case, there's a really fascinating story buried here that Alex completely misses and has no idea about because he's not interested in reality. His narrative demands that these pictures not just be pictures, they're videos and that they're real, so they're real to him. Not only that the government has copies of the videos and they seize them from Culbertson and declared national security blah, blah, blah. It's all bullshit in service of the conspiracy narrative as opposed to celebrating the kookiest shit that happens in real life like bolt faking a heart attack in order to leave the court I

Jordan (00:59:54.000)

want I want to I every story should include a somebody say If you have a heart attack, if right now I want to hear every time that somebody in real life has faked a heart attack, I want to know every single story if

Dan (01:00:06.000)

we were down in Texas for Alex's trial, and

Jordan (01:00:10.000)

I would, that's the only story I would tell. I would only tell that story. I would never exaggerate. I would never embellish. You could hear that same exact story for 50 years,

Dan (01:00:20.000)

I would give him more of a tip of the hat. Yeah. Just to get out of

Jordan (01:00:23.000)

it. I don't know why, but it is the funniest possible thing that you can do in real life is a cartoon gag where you fake a heart attack. That's hilarious. Yeah, yeah.

Dan (01:00:34.000)

So Alex has a guest on but the Oklahoma City stuff. Sure. And it was a fella by the name of God cash a good name.

Jordan (01:00:42.000)

We got blood. Bolton. Cash. Yeah, that is a fucking band. Right?

Dan (01:00:46.000)

Yeah. Put Crosby, Stills, Nash, or any of that. Yeah, you gotta not Nash too close to cash. Hmm, good point. Yep. So he interviews this guy and I he's an interesting cat. I'm not sure what to do with this guy. Okay, I don't know. All right. I don't know listen,

Alex Jones (01:01:06.000)

pads can and all this speculation instantly by releasing that video.

J. D. Cash (01:01:10.000)

If I have it. This particular these these photographs and video surveillance Now supposedly emanates the camera is pointing from the YMCA. What's interesting is, I have today spoken with a person who I've known for years who said I saw those still pictures. So Mr. Culbertson has indeed shown some still pictures that are very interesting to different people. Now, these are video stills are still Petrick. These are video stills. That's my understanding. But you'd obviously have to steal video to watch the explosion take place. That's correct. There has to be a video someplace for them to have made the stills and supposably that the first picture is of a pristine building, no track. Then the next picture, there is a track. And there is a glow at the bottom, I guess it's supposedly going off. And then the next picture is carnage. Now that's how that was described to me now. Alex, you and I both know that with digital, the digital stuff, the software and these computers now. Anything is possible people can create this stuff. And so I always have to warn people that this they I have not seen these pictures. So I don't know that this. These aren't phony. I don't know that.

Dan (01:02:31.000)

So Alex is interviewing a guy who's presenting himself as a big expert on this story. And even according to him, the best he can do is say that he's heard secondhand from people that they've seen pictures from Culbertson, but there's no way to know if what they saw was even real, right? This is not an important piece of evidence in any sense. But it's fairly telling that this cash fellow is on the case, but doesn't seem to know much about the surrounding context of the story like Jim bolt, yeah, and his heart attack. But I do appreciate his restraint, because it's something you rarely see in these people on Infowars. True,

Jordan (01:03:03.000)

true. I mean, at the same time, though, if you're if you're you can just not talk about evidence this flimsy, you can just be like, Nope, this one, there's nothing I'm saying nothing. But we do though, if you die if

Dan (01:03:16.000)

my senses if Alex asks

Jordan (01:03:18.000)

you. Sure. But I mean, if you I like it whenever you diagram sentences, where it's like what happened, you know, and then you can scratch out parts of the sentence to find out what really somebody was saying. And he was saying, We've got nothing.

Dan (01:03:31.000)

Yeah, yeah. JD cash himself, I think is an interesting figure. He's a bit of a self styled journalist who only got into the career after the Oklahoma City bombing. He was an Oklahoman. And I guess he just took a serious interest in the topic and started digging into things. There are definite things that he did some we decent reporting on. For instance, he was the person who spoke to Carol how a federal informant who had lived at Elohim city and claimed that she had heard a conversation about bomb plots between Dennis Mahan and Andrea strossmayer. How was a white supremacist who was at Elohim city and dated Mahan, the two had a falling out in 1994, at which point she was recruited by the ATF. She definitely spoke with the FBI after the bombing, but she's claimed that to cache that she spoke to her contacts at the ATF and told them about the bomb plot and conversation she overheard about five months prior to the bombing. It's unclear if this is accurate, and even if it is, it's unclear how specific the information she relayed would have been. But this is a story that cache was at the center of bringing to light. He was able to do this because he was embedded at the white supremacist and Nazi headquarters. It doesn't appear that he necessarily shares their worldview, but some other journalists have definitely raised questions about the ethics of how he went about courting sources. Apparently, his buddying up with extremists went so far as to publish articles in extremist publications like Jubilee and media bypass as well as speaking at an extremist conference called jubilation, where he followed Aryan Nations ambassador at large Louis beam on the podium. Yeah, Louise spoke first and then him.

Jordan (01:05:11.000)

Wow, that's, I mean, yeah, that's fucked. It's very close contacts

Dan (01:05:15.000)

and friendliness with

Jordan (01:05:19.000)

what it is. It is like that is the level of infiltration you would need in a movie. But that doesn't make sense in this circumstance hard. It's hard. It's I mean, I'm sure it's difficult to find your way into a white nationalist extremists cell.

Dan (01:05:35.000)

Yeah, sure, especially if they have sort of suspicions that you're a journalist and betting yourself totally pretty, pretty worried about that?

Jordan (01:05:45.000)

Yeah. But I do feel like maybe giving a an Aryan speech might not be necessary. I think you could get away with not giving a Nazi speech.

Dan (01:05:57.000)

It doesn't seem required. Yeah. Yeah. So he was very close with these white supremacist types that he covered. And he was also very friendly with the McVeigh defense attorneys, which will definitely make people a little bit concerned about bias. Yeah, that comes into play as it relates to what was probably his largest moment in the spotlight. And 1997, a reporter for the Dallas Morning News dropped a bombshell story that he'd obtained a defense document which contained Timothy McVeigh making an explicit confession to one of his lawyers. Everyone was a bit taken aback by this and McVeigh's defense team was understandably a little bit late on details. Yeah, when asked for a response Sure. Someone who was quick to go on the attack about this was JD cash. According to cash. This was a fake confession that the defense team had put together to use as a prop in order to convince someone else that there was no danger in them coming in for an interview because McVeigh had already confessed to doing it all himself. It's widely believed that this other person is Louis beam, but there's no way I haven't found any like solid confirmation of that, but that's what most people believe due to his contact right? Rare I have you Okay. Wow. Yeah. As implausible as all this sounds. It does appear that this story is true. Another member of McVeigh's defense team investigator named Richard Raina had shown the dummy confession to cash a year prior and they had a big laugh about it, according to their story. So when cash saw reporting about this confession, he recognized some of the language from it and came out saying it was a hoax. After he did McVeigh's lead attorney Steven Jones began to get a bit more specific with his responses and took that line about the suppose confession that it was a dummy confession meant to lure in another witness. Weird.

Jordan (01:07:43.000)

So that's true. It was a dummy convention.

Dan (01:07:45.000)

That's what it appeared to be.

Jordan (01:07:47.000)

Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Dan (01:07:48.000)

I mean, like, if not like his lawyers probably should be.

Jordan (01:07:53.000)

I mean, trouble. Yeah. What the What the fuck? What, what is everybody's idea of how to do stuff. I'm blown away by this weird the number of dumb things that people have chosen to do in this story is mind boggling.

Dan (01:08:10.000)

It's pretty, pretty strange. Yeah. I mean, if you had if you were a defense team, and you had, you're defending Timothy McVeigh. Sure. And he had made an explicit confession, it doesn't seem like something that you would put on paper. And it also doesn't seem like something that you would continue defending him after? Because it would put you in a situation where you have to lie.

Jordan (01:08:31.000)

Yeah, legally, you would have to, I guess, reveal that maybe? Yeah, I don't know.

Dan (01:08:35.000)

So it almost kind of makes sense that it would be a fake confession. Sure. I don't know. It's, it's all so strange.

Jordan (01:08:42.000)

Why would it be? Yeah. Why would you write it down? If it was, if it was real? Why would you write it down? Right, right. That's what Yeah, to get around. If it's fake You of course, you'd write it down. Because? Yeah, but that's also an insane thing to think would work. Yeah.

Dan (01:08:58.000)

I don't know. I don't know. So cash is a guy who has some insight information, but is also a bit sketchy. And I'm not sure he's fully trustworthy. Right. On the one hand, from everything I can tell, he definitely believes that McVeigh was involved in the bombing. And he's even said that he's spoken to sources that place McVeigh at the scene, but on the other hand, he's still a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and as much as he alleges a gigantic conspiracy was behind the bombing with wide ranging players that he definitely doesn't establish right, and he can't prove he's someone I was teetering on the edge about unsure about where to categorize him, but then I realized I'm only talking about him because he's having a friendly interview with Alex Jones. Yeah, that kind of tipped us.

Jordan (01:09:37.000)

That doesn't really sound good on your resume.

Dan (01:09:40.000)

But he does provide some pushback to Alex on these things that Alex wishes he could just present a question with Jack Blood, he's certainly able to, but now you got JD cash in here and he's worried about his own reputation, right and not like just going to play along with, you know, whatever bullshit, Alex. Sure, sure. And that's kind of different.

Jordan (01:09:59.000)

Why held. That's wild. That's a whole crazy story. No, man. I mean, here's to ascertain I, here's what I feel like what happened if if I were in this situation as who as cash, okay, I, I find it very reasonable to have tipped over into a level of conspiracy theory that you're, you're not really capable of backing up simply because the number of absurd events that have actually happened to you or would be more likely to make you think, well, conspiracies are possible. Yeah. Listen to the shit that happened to me, you know The world's crazy. Exactly. So I mean, it would be it would be rational if you were a certain type of person to tip over. I mean, it wouldn't be rational, but you could understand why it happened. Right? Right. Yeah, track. Yeah. So that.

Dan (01:10:53.000)

And also, yeah, even like going on Alex's show makes sense. Because, like he's in a certain category where most places probably aren't ripe or hospitable. Right, right. And Alex is somebody where you can say whatever about these kinds of topics, so I can kind of understand that even if he doesn't fully align with Alex.

Jordan (01:11:13.000)

I don't know, in 2004, it's more reasonable to think that he didn't know the full context of who he was talking

Dan (01:11:19.000)

to. We may never know though. Yeah. Passed away. So we can't talk. Oh,

Jordan (01:11:22.000)

man. That would be did he have a note on his shoulder? Up there? Yeah.

Dan (01:11:30.000)

So Alex believes that people planted explosives in the building should advance route to like his building seven conspiracy, right? Cash has never found evidence of that.

J. D. Cash (01:11:41.000)

The thing is, I don't I have never found the slightest bit of evidence the slightest that anybody was in there that night doing all this stuff.

Alex Jones (01:11:54.000)

why did why did Jane Graham, the the lady at HUD say that she saw these? These, these white men with gray sticks of butter?

J. D. Cash (01:12:03.000)

Well, you know, I've interviewed Miss Graham on more than one occasion. And I still you know, I can't use her, any of her anything. Because the story has evolved. The story has not been as consistent as what we would have to have for our newspaper.

Dan (01:12:19.000)

Wow. That's devastating for Alex's argument. Yeah,

Jordan (01:12:22.000)

that was that was solid. Yeah, solid shit, right that here's a guy

Dan (01:12:26.000)

who covers the OKC bombing compulsively who believes in a conspiracy style cover up regarding who was involved in it, who knows all about the subject, Alex covers, and about all the people Alex references, and he doesn't buy the game Alex is playing and has reason not to. He's heard Jane Graham's story. And he's found her not to be a credible witness because her version of events has changed over time. That is one of the most elementary reasons that you would deem someone a bad source. And Alex can't really dispute what the guy saying. Cash is an expert. He's not necessarily a debunker. And he's clearly shown that he's not just gonna go along with whatever Alex wants. So Alex can expect pushback from pushback. Yeah, no.

Jordan (01:13:05.000)

I mean, that's, that's, it's almost like Alex is missing a huge opportunity to update to a conspiracy 2.0 on the OKC bombing, you know, like, here's somebody who's pushing back with actual information, right? Not necessarily information, it wouldn't be too hard. Yeah, that's what he likes it. He's, you know, like, this is an opportunity to level up and Alex is given it is that two paths in lifetime choice of like, I could go, I could go here, I could go here. I chose the lazy.

Dan (01:13:38.000)

And you know, what, something that I think is interesting, and maybe not immediately apparent, is that when JD cache says that he has talked to her her story has changed. It's not reliable enough for me to I can't use her for anything, right? Because I don't know what can be true and what cannot. Right. That is against his own interests. Yeah. His interest would be served by believing that there will put these gray sticks of butter and explosives in there, and he's rejecting taking that easy path. And I think that that says something. Yeah, like, I don't I don't necessarily agree with him, but everything, obviously, but the instinct to not just like, take a bunt, or whatever. Yeah. is not something you see a lot on Infowars

Jordan (01:14:25.000)

No, no, the idea of just because I want something to be true does not necessarily make it true is ver bug 10.

Dan (01:14:32.000)

Yeah, no. And there's multiple instances of this happening throughout the show. They take some calls, and here is cash doing this again.

Alex Jones (01:14:41.000)

Let's go to these calls. James in Colorado, you're on the air go ahead.

Caller 2 (794) (01:14:46.000)

First time listener and listening to I mean, first time caller and listening to you. Am 1360 Take your show. Go ahead. Like to thank my friend Jeremy in 2001, who told me Well document In a talk show host named Alex Jones, who was taken off care care for supposedly suspicious reasons. Thank you, Mr. Jones for airing all more of your callers than any other talk show I've ever heard that.

Alex Jones (01:15:13.000)

Thank you. But what else is on your mind?

Caller 2 (794) (01:15:17.000)

First of all, common sense there's a huge bomb would blow chunks and debris for blocks in every direction still not take down that building, unless it was shaped are just in the beams and columns.

J. D. Cash (01:15:32.000)

And here's what we have found this was from, you know, what we do know. There is one pretty good chunk of that building that appears to be in the middle of the street in front of where the office was building was. There is a there was a property safe, heavy steel safe. That was actually blown into the parking lot of a journal record building across the street. There were not big chunks of the buildings blown all over downtown. That's just

Alex Jones (01:16:09.000)

JT JT, I have stills of the helicopter video. And there's trucks in the building across the street on top of the other building.

J. D. Cash (01:16:16.000)

There are pieces of the Ryder truck. And those were introduced into evidence with detailed photographs of the of the truck. That's, you know, the way that is I mean, Alex, this is years and years and years and years of research.

Alex Jones (01:16:31.000)

What about the seismographs? Alex wants

Jordan (01:16:33.000)

to move on? No kidding.

Dan (01:16:35.000)

So this caller is trying to make Alex's point, which is that there had to been other bombs in the building shaped charges, which made the explosion go outward shooting the building all over other buildings downtown. You may notice that this color didn't claim that and Alex is making his claims in response to something cash said a little bit earlier in the episode, Alex made this claim to cash himself right. So he's responding cash is responding to that, right? There's a little bit of a bounce back. Right. And interesting point about cash seems to be that he believes that there were multiple explosions that day, but he doesn't believe that there were bombs planted in the building. From what I can tell his theory is that there were bombs or other explosives that were being stored at the ATF office in the Murrah Building. And the explosion caused them to detonate and secondary explosion, but that there's been a cover up of that. Okay, in terms of logical leaps, this is way more reasonable as a place to be because you can imagine that if there is an ATF office there, which there is, they may keep items that were confiscated from searches of arrests there, and one such item might be a bomb. And you could believe that there could be a legitimate reason why they might not want to be upfront about that. For one, it could paint a picture that ATF offices are inherently dangerous, which could hurt with them leasing property, or another direction could be that they wouldn't want to reveal exactly what they'd confiscated because it could give away part of an ongoing investigation unrelated to McVeigh. I'm not saying that this is the case. But there's a little more of a grounded conspiracy there than the type that Alex tends to engage. Yeah,

Jordan (01:18:06.000)

yeah. I mean, the simplest reason would just be like, we don't want to make everybody think that every ATF office has bombs in it, right? Because then people might want to go bomb those.

Dan (01:18:18.000)

Right? You wouldn't want to have your office next to ATF. Yeah, and I mean, even just on a crass kind of level, you could be like, well, they just didn't want anyone thinking that they were was partially responsible for the destruction or whatever. Right. But like, so these kinds of conspiracies seem to have more of a foot in the real world than Alex's does.

Jordan (01:18:43.000)

Yeah, it does. Here's, here's what, uh, here's the vibe I'm getting is somebody who is an excellent Bigfoot researcher. You know, and I'm talking about somebody who believes in by Bigfoot is real, like 100% believes in Bigfoot in Bigfoot. Right? But he's looking at all of the evidence that people have gathered, and he's like, this is not conclusive. Because here's why. Here's why. Here's why. Here's why all of that

Dan (01:19:06.000)

kind. Here's what we can say. Exactly. Here's an Alex and his callers keep pushing far past that point. Right. And, you know, I mean, it's faint praise slightly, but it is it is appreciated, that he will at least set those lines and be like, I'm not going to essentially be a party of, you know, saying these things that are D legitimizing to my expertise and years and years of research.

Jordan (01:19:31.000)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, but, you know, I agree with you it's and it's not super unreasonable to believe that there's some sort of great ape, a will and a an absurdly large forest. You know, like, it's not crazy to think that there might be something there

Dan (01:19:46.000)

on that premise the possibility of it. Yeah. So yeah, I can I have a sort of iffy take on I'm exactly there with you, but also I appreciate this

Caller 2 (794) (01:20:00.000)

Not enough is spoken about what records were kept important record pin to whom? And that particular villain. Do you have any comment on that one? Oh, yeah, there's

J. D. Cash (01:20:08.000)

always there's always these stories about these records. But you know, was somebody please tell us how we're supposed to be able to pin this down because you just can't write every rumor that comes down the pike.

Alex Jones (01:20:20.000)

We know Bill Clinton has the building destroy it and all that stuff.

Dan (01:20:24.000)

Can't just print every room.

Jordan (01:20:27.000)

Shot and Jason Yeah, just print every rumor rumor. Well, Bill Clinton. Okay. All right.

Dan (01:20:33.000)

Yeah, I admittedly have not read enough of JD cashes work to know like fully how much he lives by whatever the things he's saying. Sure, sure. But I do appreciate him saying like, Hey, if you prefer calling Alex a moron.

Jordan (01:20:50.000)

He's a more intuitive to his face.

Dan (01:20:53.000)

But he might not think that's what he's doing. Right. But basically, Alex publishes every fucking room.

Jordan (01:20:59.000)

If we were if we were reading about this story, or perhaps listening to it occur, we would all know the audience knows exactly who is being called a moron here.

Dan (01:21:09.000)

Wow. Alex's audience would think JD is that's fair. Yeah. So another person with an abbreviation chair PJ W shows. We've got Paul. Since he's British, it's time to lie more about the David Kelly, the weapons inspector who passed away

Paul Joseph Watson (01:21:28.000)

Kelly, David Kelly, the former UN weapons inspector was murdered and did not commit suicide. Now.

Alex Jones (01:21:35.000)

A bunch of government people are saying he was obviously murdered. He talked to a lady who worked with an American as a weapon inspector told her they're gonna kill me soon and put me in the woods.

Dan (01:21:46.000)

So Alex is just blurring all kinds of details about the David Kelly case, because as we've seen unfolding, he's in the process of turning it from a real event into a piece of his Patriot conspiracy lore, much of the same way that you know, he's lying about the Ann Coulter interview to make it a myth. He's doing the same thing as it relates to the David Kelly story. Yeah, he has his established narrative in place, which is that Kelly was murdered. And so every little detail that he covers about the case needs to be bluffed and finessed. So it fits that narrative. In this case, Alex is just lying about this comment in large part by depriving the audience of the context of that comment was made in because it's essentially a real comment. Yeah. It wasn't said to a female American coworker who was a fellow weapons inspector, it was said to a British diplomat named David bruiser. It wasn't said just before Kelly's death, it was about six months prior in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. He didn't say that some shadowy unknown group was going to kill him and put him in the woods. He was saying that if the invasion went forward, he'd quote probably be found dead in the woods. But the reason for that comment is clear. He was worried about the Iraqi contacts he had, many of whom he feared would feel betrayed by him if the UK invaded, particularly around issues related to weapons of mass destruction. It came out in the Hutton inquiry that Kelly had made indications bordering on assurances to his contacts that the war could be avoided. And the idea that an invasion might still happen that made him rightly concerned that the danger that he could be in because of those assurances that he'd made to high level people, right? Ultimately, a comment like this makes me feel even more convinced about the suicide determination because it helps illustrate the headspace and a fear and guilt that Kelly was feeling at the time. Yeah. What's important to recognize here is the way that Alex is wantonly misreporting details around this comment because the actual context puts his narrative into more question, whereas his phony version makes his narrative seem more likely. Without the context of who Kelly was worried would kill him, Alex is able to pretend that this is about him worrying about retribution for supposedly blowing the whistle on WMD intelligence by presenting this as something that was said in the immediate time just before his death, Alex is able to tie the comment to the death far more directly than reality would allow. This is one of Alex's primary ways of lying, and it's something that he's able to pass off as just being sloppy or speaking extemporaneously without notes or a teleprompter. He can use that excuse if he's called on about one particular detail like in this case, he could say the Miss Miss remembered who he was speaking to or so, but it's imperative to understand that this is a universal pattern. His sloppiness and unprofessional approach to his job actually provides cover for the misrepresentations and lies he presents as researched fact to his audience feature

Jordan (01:24:37.000)

not about you know, yes, it is like, like Douglas Adams described the Sirius cybernetics Corporation have like, the superficial flaws are so loud and annoying. They distract you from the fundamental flaws that are the larger problem. Yeah,

Dan (01:24:54.000)

yeah. Yeah, the coat of paint is terrible to see you don't see that it doesn't work. Exactly. Your car's broken. Yeah. So Alex has another guest and Paul sticks around and hangs out with this other guest and it is a border vigilante great name Chris Simcox.

Alex Jones (01:25:16.000)

Mexicans cross border us volunteers journalists photographed mysterious militia, you want to go to prison planet.com or infowars.com link through and look at the video and photos of all these foreign trips. That's coming up with Chris Simcox, the editor of a local newspaper, and a Citizen Action Group.

Dan (01:25:34.000)

Chris Simcox is not the editor of a reputable local paper with his why Alex phrased it like that. He's the founder of the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a border vigilante group that violently harasses immigrants. He's another one of the pieces of shit who Alex presents to his audience as heroes. And it's worth noting that he's not a person that Alex would admit to knowing anymore. That's because Simcox is currently in prison serving an over 19 year sentence after being convicted in 2016 of molesting a five year old girl. It's probably also really terrifying to realize that prior to his shift into being a border vigilante Simcox was an elementary school teacher in classes from kindergarten to third grade for 13 years. Two of his ex wives filed for protective custody from him, one in 2001 and another in 2010. The first ex told the court that Simcox had threatened deadly violence and it slapped their four year old son so hard he had a mark on his face for two days. The ex wife from 2010, who has actually Simcox, his third wife told the judge that he quote brandished a gun and threatened to shoot her the children and any police officers who tried to protect them. As is so often the case when he looked back through Alex's catalogue, the guests he has on are all complete monsters. It's bad enough that this guy's only real claim to fame at the time is that he was demonizing immigrants and harassing them while heavily armed. But when you get into who he actually is, you start to see the caliber of person Alex puts on a pedestal. It really feels like if you peel back even a single layer on most of Alex's guests from this time period, you end up with a literal Nazi or a child abuser way more regularly than you should. These people are awful. Yep. Real shit.

Jordan (01:27:13.000)

Yeah. It is like the the probable cause is always the way that these people treat women. You know, it's just always that it just always comes back to that if you see this type of behavior from a man, to a woman, it should be an immediate trigger investigation into everything that this dude has ever done.

Dan (01:27:36.000)

What color is more red than red? To put it as a flag? Yeah, exactly.

Dan (01:27:41.000)

Yeah. You know, it's it's so universal. A piece of a lot of these domestic

Jordan (01:27:49.000)

abuse in the way that they treat women is just always the biggest red flag. Yeah.

Dan (01:27:55.000)

Well, I mean, look, he treats women really terribly. In the running. I mean, immigrants are also the short term real terrorists. Sure,

Jordan (01:28:05.000)

sure. No, no, no, that's that's definitely this is this dude's just a monster. He's just a real piece of shit in every possible sense. Yeah, the word

Dan (01:28:14.000)

it's pretty tough to get around how bad a dude he is. Yeah. And like, so when he was on trial. There were two accusers one six year old and one five year old, who had it was a couple years later, so they were a little older at this point, Sheriff, but not much older. Not adults at this point yet. And he wanted to directly crossing No, no, no, no, that's the kind of

Jordan (01:28:41.000)

fucking put him in put him in a cage under the ground. Yeah,

Dan (01:28:44.000)

when I read this fucking Christ, and I read that I was like, oh, no,

Jordan (01:28:48.000)

if he says, God, fucking there, she

Dan (01:28:51.000)

was not allowed to

Jordan (01:28:52.000)

there should be trapdoors. For people who say shit like that. If you say that out loud, suddenly, a trapdoor should open and you should just fall. Yeah, like that's, that is the end of conversation for good. You will.

Dan (01:29:05.000)

So the two of them, Alex and Simcox are just trying to incite people to hate migrants.

Alex Jones (01:29:12.000)

Well, why isn't the military on the border engaging these foreign troops when they come across that fence?

Caller 2 (794) (01:29:18.000)

That's exactly what we want to know. I tell you Border Patrol takes seriously almost every border patrol agent on the line now will not get out of their truck without carrying a long arm. And well.

Alex Jones (01:29:28.000)

I mean, they were just shooting people again a few weeks ago, kidnapping citizens as the Associated Press. It's a matter of time before he opened fire on you. What are you going to do, Chris?

Caller 2 (794) (01:29:35.000)

Well, we're we are prepared and again, we had a situation here in our county and Cochise County is going to lead the way with citizens arming themselves and patrolling that border as we already have. We had a mother and a 14 year old daughter who were beaten, threaten threatened with with death and carjacked as they were going to school. Last week we'll

Alex Jones (01:29:55.000)

talk about it when we get back and take your calls America is under attack by foreign drugs. Dealing troops.

Dan (01:30:01.000)

Oh, boy. Yeah, really, really blending a lot of stuff there, you know, like you can have undocumented immigrants, and they're rolled in with drug smugglers. And this fake story that Alex has about the family being kidnapped. Yeah, that we talked about on a past episode. Like it's just all very irresponsible and only meant to make people more fearful and distrustful of Well, I mean, basically all Hispanic people.

Jordan (01:30:31.000)

Yeah, I here's, I don't understand how it is that you can say shit like that and not behave like shit. Like that is true.

Dan (01:30:41.000)

If that makes sense. Simcox kind of does. Yeah, no,

Jordan (01:30:44.000)

that's that's kind of what I'm saying. As far as Alex being like, though, there are foreign invaders, and it is only a matter of time before they are shooting people. at you. Yeah, that is not a statement that you can say and believe without extreme action immediately.

Dan (01:31:02.000)

It seems like it you know, yeah.

Jordan (01:31:04.000)

Like, you can't, I can't just be like, Hey, listen, this is

Dan (01:31:07.000)

this is the thing though. Alex fancies himself like a guy who's in a bunker somewhere told who's like broadcasting the collapse and end of the world. And he's been doing it for 20 plus years, totally. Like, that's what he thinks he's doing. He's like, getting the word out to the troops on the front line or whatever. And that's, that's what he thinks he is doing something about it. Just by like, I mean, being the voice of the Patriot.

Jordan (01:31:32.000)

It's just so crazy to me that you could believe something like that. And then like, Okay, well, I'm gonna go to Target. Do you need anything from the store? Like no, at any point in time, somebody's going to kill you.

Dan (01:31:44.000)

Well, not out, you know, team of security. million dollar house.

Jordan (01:31:50.000)

It's a lot easier. It's easier to say shit, you don't believe when you're

Dan (01:31:54.000)

rich? Yeah, yeah. He doesn't want to do anything about it, because jeopardize that richness. He loves

Jordan (01:31:58.000)

being rich. We heard

Dan (01:32:01.000)

at the end there pretty harrowing story about a carjacking. And so talk about this a little bit more. And Alex's response to this is really fucked up.

Alex Jones (01:32:11.000)

But, Chris, I mean, you are an American hero. They're on the front line standing up against these people. And you were trying to tell us a story of the beating of this woman or child and tell us more about that. I'll read

Caller 2 (794) (01:32:23.000)

it straight from the paper a woman and her 14 year old daughter were pulled from their SUV and beaten outside their rural Cochise County home Thursday morning, and a carjacking by three men illegally in the United States. They stole their SUV they punched the women in the mouth, sold their vehicle got into a car chase with Border Patrol agents again on our rural highways, right during rush hour morning rush hour. And children going to school right by children standing on the side of the road waiting for

Alex Jones (01:32:50.000)

school, they should set up a roadblock and shoot that vehicle full of holes.

Caller 2 (794) (01:32:54.000)

Well, they fold them over, the guys took off running back across the border and they cut them just a few 100 yards on our side there. You can

Dan (01:33:00.000)

see here's something that's really important to recognize and hold on to Alex's principles and the things he says he believes in don't matter when his emotions, particularly his hatred get triggered. On paper. Alex hates the idea that police have carte blanche to do whatever they want. He's still pretending to be a kind of libertarian at this point. He has a real strong problem with the state having a monopoly on the use of force which is embodied by the fact that police can initiate forceful exchanges with you talks about a prison planet police state is multiple films called police state. Yeah, Alex is constantly yelling about the militarization of police. And if you just took him at face value, you would possibly be tricked into thinking that you he had a sincere interest in police reform, and that maybe there could be some kind of alliance you could make with him to work on it. But the truth is Alex doesn't care about that at all. He supports rampant police brutality when it's directed towards the groups he agitates against. Simcox is telling him a story here about a carjacking and assault and because the alleged perpetrators are undocumented immigrants, Alex thinks the police should have fired on the car indiscriminately? Would that be what you would want people to do if it was just a carjacking where it was a white citizen who had done it? I think Alex would,

Jordan (01:34:14.000)

hey, all I'm saying is that people should die for property that's dead. It just makes sense to me for an inanimate object to be worth more than the life of a human being

Dan (01:34:24.000)

I think I think it's more about the fact that they assaulted and beat up the you know, the Americans sure I think that's more what makes Alex angry run the property as because he's totally fine with them shooting the property itself full of Sure. Sure. So but I get I get what you're saying. I don't even know if this story is true, by the way. Yeah, it very well may be but it's clearly this is an article that Simcox is reading from his own publication, the tombstone tumbleweed, there we go, which exists solely to incite hatred toward migrants. All right, given the details that he provides, it's impossible to verify this story given that We have no idea when this happened. There are no names provided. So cross checking doesn't really work. I couldn't find anything. I tried to find back issues online of the tombstone, tumbleweed, but shocking league yeah unavailable. In this environment where Simcox is willing to do this shitty of a job, he could legitimately just make up whatever story he wants, and people like Alex will accept it as real, because it conforms to the narrative that they they want to perpetuate, namely, that migrants are an existential threat to the noble whites of the country. Not only will Alex accept whatever story he's told that lines up with what he wants to believe. He'll then use that story to advocate for summary executions to be carried out on these people by the police. If Alex were someone who cared about the truth, he'd be more careful about what stories he just blindly accept. If Alex were someone who cared about the rising police state as much as he pretends to, he would never excitedly wish that the police could just randomly kill people for non capital crimes, just because they're part of a vulnerable population that happens to hate. Yeah.

Jordan (01:36:01.000)

That it is it is just telling on yourself, like I want to live in my fascist police state where I get to police everybody who does things that I don't like,

Dan (01:36:10.000)

it's not it's not so transparent. In the past. Yeah, but you see it. Yeah. No, it's It's he's more it's pretty clear in the present more so. Yeah. But yeah, the it's always been there. Yeah. It's an unexamined piece of his own psyche. Right. It's been played out over

Jordan (01:36:27.000)

decades. I mean, yeah. And the the the truth is, is that Alex in this context should be on a cab side you know, and that's not as that's not because you know, he thinks that individual cops are bad it is the institution itself it is not a personal should exactly. It's not a personal thing like oh cops are bad it is that the the institution of policing in America policing changed fundamentally you know, like from the proposition that's the idea of stopping a prison planet to remove this problem the good thing and it's still like a full on full throated support of murder indiscriminate vigilante style violence, he's told

Dan (01:37:09.000)

the story that he can't possibly know is true or not, and he's like, I hope the cops murdered hope they kill people. Yeah, yeah, cool, man. Fucking insane. But that in your next police state movie, yeah. Great. So we have one last clip here and I wish it was better honestly. There's no real outro no button Not really. But this clip I thought it was. I looked into it a little bit and it was weird.

Alex Jones (01:37:32.000)

Okay. Everybody should have to be armed and trained and the next time somebody tries to carjack you know what to do?

Caller 2 (794) (01:37:38.000)

Well, we have our local sheriff who's had enough also Sheriff Deaver who is out who's having Hey citizens and volunteer patrol groups that are going to armed patrol armed our bus stop in the morning where our children wait for the buses and and we've had enough that's it. So we

Dan (01:37:55.000)

got Sheriff beavers had enough and he's getting posses together, I guess. deputizing folks, Sheriff Larry dever passed away in a car crash in 2012. The autopsy revealed that he had a point two nine blood alcohol level which is almost common the respect for an adult man you would need to have like 15 drinks in an hour to achieve that love that is very difficult typically passed point two five you are likely past the point where you can walk on your own at levels around point three zero you will be in a complete stupor. This is like severe and toxic. I mean, yeah, I'm shocked he's awake. The fact that he was that drunk and could physically operate a motor vehicle led many to speculate that he was a career Boozer, and that maybe he was pretty intoxicated, but he had a super high tolerance from drinking all the time. Yeah, sure. This raises another uncomfortable question, which is whether or not the other members of the sheriff's department had ever stopped him for driving drunk in the past and looked the other way, or they've just covered for his drinking and other ways. Compounding the suspiciousness of this is the fact that dever publicly presented himself as a teetotaler and a devout Mormon, because he was a real anti immigrant type of sheriff who appealed to the Bigot types like Alex and Simcox, conspiracy started to swirl after his death. It was really tough to make this look like a murderer though because he had so much booze in his system. He was alone in the car, there was beer and liquor bottles in the car, bunch of them, and there was a witness to the time surrounding the crash. Another motorist had been behind him but lost sight when dever went around a corner or a curve. After that the witness rounded the curve he saw that there had been a crash and this is exactly where you would expect a super drunk person to crash because their ability to navigate and negotiate the curve would be diminished. Yeah. Anyway, Sheriff dever more than anything else seems like another one of these severely anti immigrant sheriffs who like to provide cover for extremists like Simcox. They they legitimize things by virtue of their position they They like we got to deputize people like Jim Cox. And then he is allowed to sort of run free and do all kinds of really irresponsible and shady things. Yep. Yep. And by all counts, he was a hell of a drinker. Because if you're driving with a BAC of point two, nine, you're either drunk all day, every day, or you're not but one day, you just decided to have 15 drinks at an hour. I mean, seems unlikely. Yeah,

Jordan (01:40:22.000)

I don't. i Hey, I'm a drinker. I'm a bit of a boozer myself. That shit is bananas. Bananas. Yeah.

Dan (01:40:33.000)

I wonder. I mean, I've had some big nights in my life, let's say, of heroic drinking. I bet I bet I've been there before. You know, because I know that I've been at points where I've been like, sure.

Jordan (01:40:48.000)

You know, I've I here's the here's the fun thing for me. I did my heroic drinking. Before I was driving, regular 15. I mean, I've been like, you know, when I was 15 1718, that kind of stuff. Sure. Where I was living in the middle of fucking nowhere, right? So it wasn't like we were and we were kids. So if we were driving, then we were getting pulled over. And the whole town is, you know, that whole thing. It was that kind of thing. So we'd go out into the middle of nowhere, sit there and drink all night, and then wake up and then go to go back, you know,

Dan (01:41:24.000)

something at a certain point, but still 15 drinks in an hour? No, I know.

Jordan (01:41:28.000)

And what happened was, I had finished a bottle of vodka over the course of like four or five hours, too much, too much. And it was like, Well, I'm never going to get that shit faced again. So now I just fall asleep at like, 1130. If I drink too much,

Dan (01:41:45.000)

it's better. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's kind of an unsatisfying, last clip. it as much as it says, Well, this guy. He was, I found that level of intoxication and the fact that he pretends to be a teetotaler and what have you. quite bizarre, but it's not really that meaningful in the grand scheme.

Jordan (01:42:06.000)

Sure. I mean, I don't I will never understand how it is that people are still so willing to be bamboozled into the concept of an elected official having a virtue signaling party, and then trusting them now. That's crazy to me. Look, this

Dan (01:42:23.000)

was 2004.

Jordan (01:42:25.000)

More on how many years of a country are we on with people being elected? If somebody is trying to get elected and they virtue signal? Don't trust them?

Dan (01:42:35.000)

I'm a young America believer. I think our country started in 2000. It is like,

Jordan (01:42:39.000)

which very funny it is. It is like, I love it.

Dan (01:42:44.000)

When that somebody responds to a joke.

Jordan (01:42:45.000)

Yeah, they're acknowledged. It's like when my parents, you know, they were like, Oh, we're going to see a clean comic. And I'm like, That person is probably probably, yeah, they are absolutely doing some fucked up shit. They are almost served doing heroin. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Those are the people that you cannot trust. Somebody who's like, Hey, I do all kinds of weird shit. Sometimes you gotta be like, Yeah, well, if you're open and honest about it, you are telling me the truth.

Dan (01:43:14.000)

That's not a great rule to live by. But that oftentimes, it does prove to be the case valuable. So anyway, we reached the end of this, and we'll get back to the present. Find out what Alex thinks about the arrest and all that. But I felt like I wanted to not do that on our maiden voyage back. I appreciate it greatly. And I wanted to I just, you know, while you were gone, I was spending a lot of time listening these episodes because I wanted to have an enjoyable time and found some things like, dude, faking a heart attack is so fun.

Jordan (01:43:45.000)

Yeah, if you find a dude faking a heart attack, it's going in an episode. Yeah, we'll do an entire episode and you'll be wait. Yeah, honestly, you'll be like, Listen, this episode, you'll tell me before the show you were like, honestly, most of this episode's gonna be garbage. But there is one clip that I can't not play for you too good. We've it's gonna happen,

Dan (01:44:02.000)

guys. A guy named Jim bolt bolted across state lines.

Jordan (01:44:07.000)

bolt of lightning struck him. That was the idea of faking your heart. No, I'm coming Lizabeth. Right.

Dan (01:44:17.000)

So we'll be back. But until then, Jordan. Glad to be back. Good to see you. Always good to see always good. For the good. No, I

Jordan (01:44:28.000)

feel it. I felt it in the moment.

Dan (01:44:31.000)

We'll be back. But until then, we've worked indeed we do. It's I'll try.com Yep, we're

Jordan (01:44:35.000)

also on Twitter. Indeed. We are at that knowledge. I'm just gonna fight. Yep,

Dan (01:44:38.000)

we'll be back. But until then, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DCX. Clarke better pool.

Jordan (01:44:46.000)

Oh, and now here comes the sex robots.

Andy In Kansas (01:44:49.000)

Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. Well, Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.