Transcript/269: December 19, 2012
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Andy in Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding.
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Hello Alex, I'm a first name caller, I'm a huge fan, I love your work.
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I love you.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan.
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I'm Jordan.
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We're a couple dudes, like to sit around, drink novelty beverages,
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and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
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Oh indeed we are, Dan.
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Jordan.
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Dan!
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Jordan.
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Have you ever seen a symphony orchestra live?
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Yeah, when I was a kid.
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Yeah?
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Yeah.
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What were your thoughts?
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I don't give a shit.
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What do you mean?
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I'll tell you what was more impressive, over the weekend I went out to the
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AAW Pro Wrestling event.
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Okay, alright.
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Shout out to Marty and Sarah from Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling, got some nice seats.
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Hell yeah.
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We were in the balcony.
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Okay, is that good?
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I thought it was just gonna be the balcony, like seating in the balcony.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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This was the VIP section.
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Oh, you were like in a...
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This is where like Marty's, he does commentary for AAW, so he was up there doing,
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that's where his booth was.
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No shit.
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The pro, like all the wrestlers, the locker room was up in the balcony.
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It was absurd.
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That's awesome.
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I felt ludicrous.
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Yes.
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Because everyone was going nuts for stuff, and like, I was just like, hmm.
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I think the biggest response I had to things was just going like, uh-oh.
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Somewhat nonplussed then.
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No, I enjoyed the hell out of it.
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Yeah.
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I'm just, I'm not the type that goes, rargh.
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Right.
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Unless I'm wasted and I wasn't super drunk.
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That was a smart idea.
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You would have fallen out of that balcony.
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But big news, the Young Bucks showed up, very popular indie tag team.
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A little bit of a, little bit of a surprise appearance.
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They showed up.
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They're huge, man.
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Yeah.
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Place went apeshit.
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As big as the Young Turks.
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Yeah.
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Bigger.
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Bigger.
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Bigger.
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Bigger.
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They showed up and beat the shit out of the Lucha Brothers.
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Oh.
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A couple of luchadors.
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See, now this is what I'm talking about when we talk about entrenched racism.
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They were trying to set up a match for their upcoming interview.
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Yeah.
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What did they build a wall around him?
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Christ.
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Did not.
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Super kicked him and then give him some pile drivers.
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That's, oh, metaphor for America right there.
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It was a super fun time and better than any symphony Philharmonic you can come up with.
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Oh, great.
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Well, that's, that's disappointing.
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Yeah.
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You're an uncultured loon, sir.
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No way.
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It was great.
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A lot of people kicking each other in the face, doing weird flips.
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Those could not be more diametrically opposed things.
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Do you want to go to the Symphony Orchestra tonight?
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Nah, let's go see professional wrestling.
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Same difference.
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One fan in the front row got fucked up by one of the wrestlers.
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Oh, really?
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Cause he touched him.
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Like this dude was like, he must have been-
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The wrestler touched him or he touched the wrestler?
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He touched the wrestler.
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And then he got his ass beat.
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Oh yeah.
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He had his shirt torn in half and punched a couple times in the face.
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It was really hard-
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Same thing happens at the Symphony Orchestra all the time.
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All the time.
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Third chair clarinet gets fucked up.
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Getting out of line.
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It was really hard to tell if it was fake or not.
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It was one of those things that I couldn't really...
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I didn't respond like, oh God or anything like that.
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This might be incredibly totally staged.
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Right.
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Anything at a professional wrestling show could absolutely be staged.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you go in there with that level of awareness.
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And I was told from reputable sources that it was absolutely not faked.
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That dude punched the shit out of him.
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Okay, that sounds right.
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It was nuts.
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Anyway, good times.
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I know a lot about that show.
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I don't know anything about that show.
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I also know a lot about Alex Jones.
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I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones.
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That's correct.
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So Jordan, today we got an interesting fun episode to go over.
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But before we do that, we need to give a shout out to a couple of new donors.
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People who have signed up and are supporting the show.
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Oh, that's nice.
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Yeah.
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So first of all, Shiny Khari.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you so much, Shiny Khari.
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Thank you very much, Shiny Khari.
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Next, Miriam, thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Sorry about that.
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Forgot the last letter on the name.
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I apologize.
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Disappointed.
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Thank you, Miriam.
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Thank you.
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Next, we got Peter.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Peter.
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Next, Shitpost Podcast.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you so much, Jared.
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Thank you so much, Jared.
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Great podcast hosted by Jared Holt is now a policy wonk.
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Yeah, that's fantastic.
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Very exciting.
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Thanks, Jared.
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Also, and finally, thank you so much to somebody who has donated on a little bit of an elevated
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level, and we appreciate it also very much.
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So Brian with a Y, thank you so much.
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You are now a technocrat.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Four stars.
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Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.
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Someone, someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.
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Daddy shark.
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Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.
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He's a loser.
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Little, little titty baby.
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I don't want to hate black people.
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I renounce Jesus Christ.
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Thank you so much, Brian.
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Thank you very much, Brian.
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If you'd like to support the show and you like what we're doing, you can do that by
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going to our website, knowledgefight.com.
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Click that button that says support the show.
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We would appreciate it.
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Please do.
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Be kind.
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So Jordan, today we are going over January.
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I'm sorry.
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December 19th, 2012.
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That's right.
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It is another same.
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Whoa.
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Four in a row.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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You've become addicted to this.
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A tiny bit, because I had feelings and suspicions that things were going to start moving a little
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faster and I wanted to stick with it.
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But I also 100% intended to do a present day episode for today.
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Yeah.
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I listened to a good bit of Alex's shows, a couple days worth, and I'm not going to
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cover it.
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I'm just not.
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I'm not going to engage with it.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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I'm not defending myself to you nor the audience, but I think it deserves an explanation.
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Okay.
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One of the reasons that I refuse to cover it.
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A defense, if you will.
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Eh, maybe.
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If you want to play semantical games.
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I'm sorry.
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A lot of the episodes that I've been listening to, they'll end up like...
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I start listening to him like, wow, this is bullshit.
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And then an hour later, I'll realize he's still talking about the same thing.
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And a lot of the stuff that he's been covering is trying to perpetuate the idea that all
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hate crimes are fake because of the Jussie Swan situation.
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Oh, no.
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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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No, let's not cover that.
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No, we won't.
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I'm out.
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We won't.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Well, at least not right now.
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Right.
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And it's one of the reasons that I find that like dealing with the present day stuff, at
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least this last week especially, incredibly difficult to figure out an angle on.
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Yeah.
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Because quite frankly, I don't know what's going on with that story.
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It's an incredibly confusing story.
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Every time there's an update, it's like, oh, he totally paid off those guys.
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And then the most recent update is like, no, he was sending people text messages, giving
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them support for like food and money and a workout plan.
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And you're like, whatever, you guys figure this out and then I'll have a take.
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Right, right.
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I'm torn in between two worlds of a lot of the details of the story sound wild, but that
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doesn't mean they're not true.
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Of course not.
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They sound wild.
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It's a wild story.
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On the other hand, I have zero trust of the Chicago Police Department.
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So I can't make heads or tails of this and I refuse to take a side on it.
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And I can't deal with Alex Jones' bullshit with that space.
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Right.
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You know, with that perspective, because I was trying to, I was wrestling with trying
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to figure out a way to like still do an episode about it, but leave room for whatever the
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actual reporting on this is, is yet to come.
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Right.
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So I was like, you know, I can go over tons of hate crime statistics and stuff like that.
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And we have done that in the past.
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Well, that would just be a rehashing of stuff.
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I just think about like, oh, well, why don't I do a breakdown of the 2017 Department of
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Justice report about the Chicago Police Department?
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That wouldn't be a bad idea.
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It wouldn't, but there's no clips in there.
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Those motherfuckers are evil as shit.
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It would just be me reading about how they found it was unconstitutional policing on
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a mass level.
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All over the, they have a dark site for torturing people.
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Right.
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So I just, as I was listening to those episodes, I just became increasingly frustrated.
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Um, and like, whatever, whatever we can bring to that conversation is not now.
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It will be later when we know what the story is.
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Right.
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And to, to choose an angle on it now is irresponsible.
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And I think that one of the reasons that, like, it's not like we haven't been aware
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of this story.
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We haven't talked about it on the show because it would be wrong to.
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Yeah.
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It's one of the, it's one of the times where it's like, I'm so grateful we don't do a
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news show because every part of this story, you see how shitty all of the media and everything
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really is.
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Everybody, everybody involved, everybody involved in this story is doing a shit job at it.
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There's a lot of jumping to conclusions.
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A lot of, uh, a lot of people sensationalizing this and maybe not a lot of that is the media
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in terms of the sensationalizing stuff, but some of it is.
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Yeah.
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And then a lot of it is just the, uh, bouncing the ping pong ball of Twitter going back and
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forth.
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Bad faith actors, bad faith arguments on just flying.
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Right.
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And so until there's more clarity on that, I don't want to talk about it.
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And Alex is talking about it a fucking ton.
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Of course.
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It makes things so much simpler when you can blame black people for problems.
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So I check in with the president and I waste a bunch of hours and I'm like, I'm not doing
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this.
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So we retreat back to 2012 and we retreat.
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Well, because there's a clarity to it of time.
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Right, right.
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It makes it, it makes it much more doable.
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No, I understand.
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But you understand the, it is weird.
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The irony.
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It is pretty weird.
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Um, so we're talking here about the 19th, uh, of, uh, of December.
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Yeah.
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And, uh, last we left off, Alex was pretty much, you know, he's made it clear that he
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is all about defending guns.
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On top of that, on our last episode, it became very clear that he was easing himself into
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solidly saying that he believed that the government did it.
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He's getting really close to saying that the victims were actually made of Play-Doh and
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the government killed them as a, yeah.
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So, uh, here's where we start off.
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Uh, on the 19th, Alex discusses, uh, some games that he likes to play with his staff
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members.
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Yeah, of course.
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And let me tell you something.
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It's always many times worse than I even know.
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In fact, I've had a little sick game around the office.
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It's really an journalistic action.
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Doubt it.
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Sickest thing you can think of will search engine and the government's doing it.
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What?
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They're doing everything.
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They folks, what?
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Let me get back to this.
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Okay.
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Even without Congress, Obama could act to restrict guns.
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That's a headline.
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That's just, uh, people talking like articles about like, what could he do without, uh,
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the full government?
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It's not important.
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It's not as important as the game of what's the sickest thing you can think of.
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I guarantee the government's doing it.
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I, I, I'm pretty sure if you were to actually play that game by the rules that you've
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said, you would all be on a, at the very least on a watch list.
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Perhaps.
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Also, it leads me to think that perhaps his staff lacks creativity because if the sickest
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things that they can think of are things that they can prove with a Google search that the
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government is doing, they aren't very creative.
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That's a good point.
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I think that, I think it speaks to a bad staff.
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You're not good at this game.
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No.
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So I started with that cause it's a little bit, meh, what do you, what do you know?
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A little weird, a little weird.
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What's the sickest thing you can think of?
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A little low stakes on that first clip.
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Uh, Furby saying the N word?
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Government's doing it.
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No!
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Yup.
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There's a whole department in Idaho.
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It's staffed with racist Furbies.
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Norcom.
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So I, I, I recognized as I was editing the last episode that like, it really hurt us
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emotionally.
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I think, or at least me, that I started with 10 minutes of, uh, like that, uh, Gladio breakdown.
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Yeah.
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As opposed to starting with something that's inconsequential.
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So I threw that in there now and now in clip two, Jordan.
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You fucking, you softballed us?
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You lulled us into a false sense of security?
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It's more about hitting the ground with a little bit of momentum as opposed to, uh,
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getting thrown out of a moving car.
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Yeah.
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That's, instead you're giving us ice cream and then throwing us out of a moving car.
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Hey, put that ice cream on your wounds.
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Help.
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Soften it up.
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So in this second clip, Jordan, uh, we find out that Alex Jones, we've speculated that
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Alex needed cover in order to make audacious claims about Sandy Hook.
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He needed some sort of cover and we've theorized that maybe it is those weirdos like Wolfgang
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how big or something like that.
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I think in this next clip, Alex has found his cover, but it's not some sort of external
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thing.
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It's an underling that he's going to, uh, throw under the bus.
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I don't know if he does, but he probably should.
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If you smart.
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And by the way, Rob, dude, did a report last night with news clips with eye witnesses.
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These aren't rumors saying, Oh, I saw the guy in the camo and the, and the, and the,
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and the bag.
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And you know, he said, I'm not the one of the cops took him away and they won't say
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who he is.
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And yeah, it looks like the guy that was in the school with the other person, folks, they
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did this, what you do.
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And remember all the, um, all the, over a hundred FBI deals, even mainstream media admitted
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where they would go find mentally ill people and give them a bomb, train them, take them
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to bomb the Christmas tree in Portland or whatever.
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And then it came out, they were setting up mentally ill people.
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And this guy was now under psychiatric daily visits.
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He was about to be committed.
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He's going, he's on these drugs.
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Undoubtedly.
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He's a windup toy.
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They bring him in, they kill him.
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He's wearing a mask.
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The real shooters kill exfiltrate out.
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I mean, they've done it before.
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So Alex has now had a, has a Rob do special report from the nightly news.
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Yeah, that is enough.
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He is now not just saying like, it's my gut.
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He's saying they did this.
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Yep.
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That's pretty right.
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We've taken it down, write it down the 19th of December.
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It's all Rob do.
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Yep.
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So Rob do has this story that Alex is reporting on and we see that Alex has definitively
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turned the corner.
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He's not saying that his gut is saying this is fake.
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He's reporting that it's fake.
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All it took was this Rob do Dick.
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Uh, I say that as if I don't know who he is.
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His asshole Rob do you ever hear about this Rob do character?
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All it took was him producing a special report that Alex could point to his proof that things
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don't add up.
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The conspiracy angle that they decided to take is the, uh, the idea of the second shooter,
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specifically the guy who's seen being arrested in the woods in Camo as Alex is describing.
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Right, right, right.
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As it turns out, the police detained a number of people in the woods on December 14th.
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It kind of makes some sense.
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If you look at the area around the school, while it would be unfair to say that the Sandy
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hook elementary is surrounded by woods, it wouldn't be too far off.
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Most of the schools north, north to west side was woods as well as the east southeast side
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with only one paved driveway leading to the school.
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With that road obviously blocked off, the woods became preferable way to reach the school
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for people who had reason to want to be there.
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That was the case for two reporters who were trying to get better coverage than they were
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being allowed to at that point.
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The police confronted them, guns drawn, questioned them and released them.
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This isn't the case Alex is thinking of.
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I just bring it up to highlight that there was a lot going on that day.
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What Alex is doing here is he's relying on the unreliability of firsthand accounts of
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crises in order to create the narrative that he wants to deliver.
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In this case, he's combining two people into one story and possibly even three.
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It's even possible that he's not doing that intentionally.
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It's just ultimately how reporting goes when you go too hard too early when you don't have
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any of the facts.
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Right.
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One of the things Alex is probably operating off is early reports about Chris Manfredonia.
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Chris was a parent who was on the way to the school to make gingerbread houses with the
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first grade class when he heard popping noises.
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All right, that's a crazy thing.
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That's like he's five days away from retirement.
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I'm amazed he didn't get killed in the whole situation too.
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He tried to get into the school, checking a few windows and doors before police approached
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him, told him to get on the ground and handcuffed him.
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He was detained briefly but was released and reunited with his daughter who was hiding
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in a classroom.
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Another man who was detained and cuffed briefly was described by a firsthand witness to TV
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reporters on the scene and here is the description.
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So this man also didn't come out of the woods.
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This man being described by this firsthand witness.
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He didn't come out of the woods and was being interviewed by police who determined him to
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be an idiot who was in the wrong place.
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He saw flashing lights, got really curious and decided to check out what was going on
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but had nothing to do with the shooting, which was long over by the time he was detained.
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You poor dumb bastard.
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Yeah.
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That would suck so hard to have to, oh my God, to walk by parents grieving children
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in handcuffs, them looking at you.
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It's literally the worst situation that curiosity could bring you to, but you never expect that's
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what you're going to walk into.
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We all have had situations in our lives where we're trying to peek at some cop that pulled
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somebody over on the highway or whatever.
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And if this was high school, if this was in our time in the late 90s when we would have
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been in high school, there would have been high school kids walking in the woods looking
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for thrown away porn mags.
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Any one of them could have walked out of the woods.
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Or smoking dope.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Oh, that's so fucked.
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Yeah, it's crazy.
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Oh my God.
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So the police interviewed him, searched him and his car.
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And since he wasn't involved in the horrific crime that had just occurred, they decided
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not to release his name, which I think is a really good, really good call.
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So we don't know who this guy is necessarily.
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And I don't, I don't think there's anything all that suspicious.
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He was dressed in camo pants and a dark jacket, which is very likely where Alex is getting
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that detail from the story about this guy.
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Alex is getting the idea of the man in the woods from a different report of a man found
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in the woods.
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But in the chaos of the day and the imprecise reporting that came out of it, something completely
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benign became incredibly suspicious.
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The man who was supposedly found in the woods was an off duty policeman in plain clothes
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who was responding to the incident.
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There was a bit of confusion because he wasn't in uniform.
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He didn't run from the police or get arrested.
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People were just confused because of how it appeared for two uniformed cops to be running
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with a non-uniformed cop.
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It made it look like a chase when the three of them were actually running together.
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So yeah, it gave the appearance of a chase, but it was not.
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Ultimately, there wasn't anything to any of this.
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The supposed second shooters and people in the woods ideas are all easily explained once
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the information starts to trickle in.
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And this really highlights one of the main problems with what Alex Jones does.
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He constructs narratives out of the suspicions that are only reasonable because of the absence
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of information available.
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I could have a conversation with him now about the second shooter idea and how it's stupid,
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but if I were in studio on December 19th, 2012, if he asked me who was that guy, I could
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only respond with, I don't know, we'll see.
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Yeah, some guy.
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And that's where the propagandist has the ultimate advantage.
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Their willingness to weaponize the unknown.
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Once all the information is out, they can't control the narrative to suit their purposes.
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So when there's a situation like this, it's of the utmost importance that they act fast.
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In that time, when the concrete is still wet, they can carve whatever initials they want
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and it'll leave an imprint forever.
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But if they wait too long, the concreteness of information that is solidified will make
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it impossible for them to make a dent.
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Nice metaphor.
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Thanks.
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And this brings into focus also what I feel about Alex's coverage of Jussie Smollett right
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now.
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You know, he's playing with the uncertainty of information and he has the advantage now
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because of that.
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When there's more information, he won't have that advantage no matter what the story ends
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up being.
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But for now, for me to cover his take on it, I would be the guy in studio saying, I don't
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know.
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I don't know.
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Oh, man.
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So there's no way to tackle that.
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God, it's so hard to, because you can immediately put yourself into that position of like some
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random ass coincidence.
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And if the cops had released that guy's name, he might be dead by now.
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Easily.
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Like he could easily have been murdered by one of the by one of the people giving death
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threats to the parents of the people who are being, oh, God, there's 100 possibilities.
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Jesus, that is so fucking terrible.
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Just a coincidence makes you, oh, geez.
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Mm hmm.
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Oh, I hope I don't walk by anything.
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I'm not going to walk anywhere ever again.
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I mean, I think it's it's my understanding that Chris Manfredonia's name is only public
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because he ended up giving interviews.
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I don't know if the police released his name either.
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Right.
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But like, I don't know.
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I think it's probably one of the rare, not super rare, but kind of not as common as we
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would like moments of police being like, right on.
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Right.
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Do not let people know who they protect this guy because you've turned him into a target.
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Yeah.
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He turned himself into it.
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He just wandered.
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Yeah.
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That reminds me so much of the the Patrice O'Neill.
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You remember the old Patrice O'Neill bit where he's like, I never litter because I don't
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want the chance of like I toss a receipt into the into the bushes and then there's a dead
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body and now I'm suspect number one.
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Like that's that's exactly that.
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Yeah.
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So now to Alex's other idea about the FBI setting people up and that shit.
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So while it is true, and I'm not going to argue the FBI doesn't have a real dicey history
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in terms of setting people up for stuff, I find it absolutely hilarious that the only
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example Alex can come up with is this Christmas tree bombing.
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Yeah.
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Do you remember that?
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No.
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So he's referring to the 2010 car bombing plan in Portland that was to take out their
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Christmas tree lighting ceremony.
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This was an instance of a would-be terrorist unknowingly working with an FBI agent who
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was undercover to plan the attack.
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The FBI made sure that the bomb was incapable of detonating.
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And after Mohammed Osman Mahmoud used his like a phone to set off the inert bomb, he
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was arrested.
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Yeah.
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So which is kind of bullshit that that is a story of the FBI post 9-11 all too often.
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Well, a lot of the times and not a lot of the time, but a practice that has been covered
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and talked about is that the FBI would find potential terrorists and in order to justify
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their expanded budget, they would essentially teach the terrorist how to make a bomb and
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then ask him to do the terrorism and then arrest him after he was caught.
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There are plenty of examples of that and that is true.
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And this event actually set off an interesting debate about whether or not the FBI had entrapped
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Mahmoud, seeing as agents had been in contact with him for months after he came up on their
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radar.
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He was on said radar because he wrote for a publication called Jihad Recollections and
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was in contact with a man in Pakistan who was known to the FBI as being a terrorist
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recruiter.
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Dear Jihad Recollections, I never thought this would happen to me.
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Not a bad bit, not a bad bit.
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So they knew that entrapment would be a good defense for Mahmoud.
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And if should things ever reach that point, the undercover agents were overly cautious
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and tried to talk him out of the attack.
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From an article in Washington Monthly, quote, aware of entrapment legal defenses, undercover
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agents offered Mahmoud multiple alternatives to mass murder, including mere prayer.
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But he insisted he wanted to play a, quote, operational role and even picked his target.
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Told he'd likely kill a lot of children, Mahmoud said, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm looking
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for.
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Though I don't know how I feel about how embedded with him the agents were, this is not a good
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example of the FBI inventing terrorists out of whole cloth.
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Right.
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Mahmoud had made his intentions to commit a violent mass casualty event totally clear,
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independent of and prior to the FBI getting involved.
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There are better examples Alex could have chosen, for sure.
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But most of the examples he would be able to come up with are minorities or left leaning
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groups who have been selectively targeted by law enforcement.
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The story he wants to tell is one of right wing oppression at the hands of a federal
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government who's labeled them all the terrorists.
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But reality doesn't match up with that.
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In a 2012 article in Rolling Stone by Rick Perlstein, he lays it out really well.
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The goal of these FBI entrapments and pseudo entrapments is one of storytelling.
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Because they're involved on some level, the FBI can control how the bust goes down, at
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what point the plot is disrupted, whether there's media attention or not, et cetera.
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They can essentially use the investigation to help them tell the story they want the
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public to hear to get them to focus where they want them to focus.
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That's why from the 60s until the present day, these things are almost exclusively used
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against left leaning groups like Occupy and the anti-war movements, with Muslims being
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a very common target in the past 20 years or so.
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But it's never the right wing groups.
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No.
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They do this, too.
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Right wing terror plots are generally found out after the case, after something goes wrong
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on their own, or they carry out the plot, or someone from the group defects, something
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like that.
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They flip and tell the law enforcement about it.
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There are so many examples of white nationalist, white supremacist groups in the last 30 years
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or so, and none of them had to do with the FBI prodding them to carry out whatever attack
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they were.
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They were willfully ignored by law enforcement, even on a federal level.
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Like the National Guard asshole.
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Right.
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And these aren't the ones that they want to publicize because they don't fit the narrative
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that they're trying to present.
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They fit the right story.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So Alex is weird.
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He's weird.
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This Sandy Hook garbage is garbage.
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Agreed.
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But Rob Doo has made that story, so now he has cover to jump whole hog into this was
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fake, the government did it.
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The whole thing is fake.
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Thanks to Rob Doo.
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Thanks to Rob fucking investigative reporter Rob Doo.
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Yeah.
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And so now Alex, I think he feels pretty comfortable about this.
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Now he's, I think he's sort of landed smoothly into the position of, all right, I can say
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it's fake now.
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Yeah.
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If you want to play that clip for the, uh, is this fake?
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It's pretty solid.
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Right, right.
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I think it still is in the ballpark of like, I don't think you could sue him for it unless
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you were the government or something like that.
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It's not crisis actor yet, but it's, it's definitely him.
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Like anytime he's like, we have debates.
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No, you just literally said this, they staged it.
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And that's something I'm starting to think about is like, I think the debates might be
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real, but I don't think they're the way he wants to present them.
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I'm starting to suspect that the debates were people, uh, like Alex was saying the government
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killed all these kids and then other people saying they're all fake.
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Right.
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Those were the real debates.
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Not it was real.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I think he likes to resist.
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How fake was it?
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Exactly.
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What version of fake was it?
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And I'm willing to bet also they weren't debates.
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I bet there were, it was a narrative progression of him having guests on, uh, and people saying
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they were all actors or whatever.
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Yeah.
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Um, so I, I don't know.
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I think that the debate thing is, is a, is sort of a fun house mirror of reality that
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we're seeing now.
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But, but still that to me, even Alex saying the government went in and killed those kids,
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killed all the kids, it's disgraceful and disgusting, but it's what you'd expect from
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Alex.
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And I think it's safe ground for him.
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Like, I don't think it's legally actionable.
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I think it's disgusting.
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I think it's exploitative, but I still don't think like, I think it's what he does.
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I think that's his brand.
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Yeah.
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I don't think you can be, I don't think there's anything you can be charged with if you just
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say the government did it.
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Like, like that's borderline, that's just like saying the government, uh, killed Kennedy.
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Right.
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You know, like, I mean, and they definitely killed Robert Kennedy, but we don't know about
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John.
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It's him saying the government did any of the thousands of things that he says that
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they did.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So, I mean, it's kind of just like, if the narrative never progresses from there, which
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we know it does, it would still be like, I'm, I'm just, I'm put off.
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Yeah.
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You're gross.
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Yeah.
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You're a disgusting human being.
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You're a complete monster, um, but it's still not like, it's still not career defining,
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fumble level, like, like it will be.
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And I find that fascinating.
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I find that really interesting.
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Yeah.
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It's a, it's another situation where he doesn't know when to end a paragraph.
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If you just, if you just said it was fake and then put a period at the end of it, we'd
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all hate you and we'd all move on.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But you know, the reason that he has to do these things and he has to keep diving in
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is because he's in pain when he sees what's going on in the world.
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It's so painful for him.
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And it is so painful to see the fact that our country has gotten to this point and is
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in the grip of hardcore mafia that is dangling 20 dead, sad little children and their families
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and the sadness they're going through in our face to terrorize us and say, you're not a
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good person.
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If you don't turn your guns in, you're not a good person.
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If you don't go along with all of this, you are a bad person.
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If you don't submit to all of this tyranny.
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You are a bad person.
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If you don't submit to at least reasonable gun fucking control laws, you're a bad person.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, or you're a bad person if this is the way you behave in the face of a tragedy and
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a crisis, this is you're a bad person.
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Not because of your gun positions, but because of how you're behaving.
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Yeah, exactly.
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That's kind of how I would, uh, I would rewrite that.
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Right.
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That's that is another one of his classic, like, oh, you don't understand why we're calling
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you a bad person.
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You just went these sad little kids, right?
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Like that's the bad person part.
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Dangling them out in front of us.
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Yeah, no, no, no, no.
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You're a bad person.
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Days, days ago.
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Right.
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20 families, way more than that.
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Were irrevocably changed.
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Yeah.
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Every so many people's lives were completely destroyed and you're like, they're dangling
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these dead kids in front of us to terrorize us.
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Yeah.
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When I haven't read any of the fucking articles I even talk about about the perceived tyranny
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that's coming.
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Whoopty shit, Alex.
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That's a bad person.
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That is a really bad person.
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That is the type of person who if you were, if you met them in a bar and they said one
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sentence, you'd be like, nah, I'm out of here.
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You're fucking gross.
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Yeah.
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You're fucking gross.
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Yup.
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So speaking of bad people, Alex now has a guest on who he's already had on since Sandy
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Hook.
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He has Larry Pratt back on as the gun rights, uh, citizens for gun, gun owners for America.
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Right.
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That's his organization.
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The more extreme version of the NRA.
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Um, and Alex is having him on because the night before Larry went on Piers Morgan show
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and Piers Morgan called him a fucking idiot.
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Right.
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Cause he is.
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Well he, cause he, I don't like being, I don't like being involved in that because Piers
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Morgan is a fucking idiot too.
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Totally.
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It's one of these things like let them fight.
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Yeah.
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But Piers Morgan was talking about how like, uh, you know, we should have some sort of
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gun reform and that sort of conversation.
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Larry Pratt is like, look what happened in England.
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You guys took the guns and crimes through the roof, all that stuff.
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And we're going to talk about that in a second.
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But first Alex is going to make that point and Larry is going to agree with him.
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I just need to establish that to prove how fucking stupid these people are.
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What about the fact that, I mean, England's crime rate doubled after they took guns.
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I just showed their own numbers.
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They're the most dangerous country in Europe.
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Who's the safest Switzerland with more guns per capita than we've got.
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It does not compute that that just doesn't fit inside the cranium of the normal liberal
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thinker.
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So UK violent crime rate.
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Ah, it doesn't fit inside my cranium, dad.
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Let's see if this fits inside yours.
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I don't think it can.
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So Alex is using statistics out of context to argue that the UK made restrictions to
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gun ownership and then violent offense numbers jumped dramatically.
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If you just look at the raw numbers, you could make that argument.
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But in order to do so, you have to ignore literally all of the context surrounding those
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numbers and numerous investigations and publications put out by parliament.
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In 1997, the UK passed the Firearms Amendment Act of 1997.
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Prior to this, there were regulations in place about registration and whatnot.
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But this act effectively banned private ownership of handguns.
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This act was passed in part as a response to the Dunblane school massacre, where a man
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entered a school, shot 16 students between the ages of five and six, shot a teacher and
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then killed himself.
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This is referred to as the UK's first and only school shooting, possibly because they
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took action.
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I just had to take a big deep breath there.
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You knew you even you read that sentence and you were like, I'm just going to let Jordan
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take a show back.
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Let's just breathe on that one, Dan.
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So that's some of the backdrop for why the Firearms Act was considered, but it doesn't
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provide the necessary context to understand and explain why Alex is lying about crime
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rates.
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And if he were a serious person at all, he would have every reason to know what I'm about
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to tell you.
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In 1998, parliament pushed through changes in how police departments were to count crime
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statistics.
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Prior to this, there was no real standardization between departments.
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So you ran into issues where an identical crime could be classified completely differently
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depending on what department investigated it.
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This obviously led to completely unreliable information and an unclear portrait of what
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crime in the UK actually looked like.
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So it's a little bit like the difference between crime reporting in, you know, like Chicago
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and crime reporting in Joe Arpaio's neck of the woods, where crime reporting in Chicago
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would include rape.
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And in Joe Arpaio's world, they're like, that doesn't even really happen.
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On a basic level, perhaps, yes.
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Similarly, yes.
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And there was nothing in place that would be encouraging them to standardize or anything
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like that.
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Yeah.
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So they made new counting rules and introduced the National Crime Recording Standard, which
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led to a large jump in crime stats, including a 118% jump in violent crime alone.
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Part of this was because departments were now required to include indictable and possibly
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indictable crimes in their statistics.
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And they also changed their reporting to reflect one crime report for each crime or victim
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as opposed to one crime per criminal.
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That is to say, if I went out and stabbed three people, that would be counted as three
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crimes now, whereas before it would have just been one.
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Right.
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That makes fucking perfect sense.
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Yeah.
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Then in April 2008, the Home Office made another change to the way they counted offenses that
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would lead to a large jump in statistics of serious violent crimes.
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They began to include, quote, gross bodily harm with intent as a serious violent crime,
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whereas previously it would not have been.
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So all the hooligans finally got picked up essentially?
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Maybe.
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This boils down to situations where the assailant intends to do gross bodily harm but fails
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to do so.
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That would not have been considered an instance of gross bodily harm assault previously and
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now was.
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This change came as the result of a 2006-2007 assessment by a cross-party review board that
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determined that the definition of violence was not defined clearly enough.
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And to get a better picture of crime as it exists, it would be wise to include attempted
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violence and credible threats of violence as counting as serious crimes.
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This alone led to a massive spike in reports of serious violent crimes with no actual additional
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crimes being committed.
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Statisticians have analyzed the data and their assessment is largely that crime is fairly
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close to flat or even down, but that there's an outward appearance that has been on the
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rise since 1998 because of these changes to how crimes are reported and counted.
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It's the same fucking autism shit all over again.
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And we talked about this with Sweden too, how they count crimes changed at a certain
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point and it makes it look like there's a massive increase.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Unfortunately, 1998 is right after the UK essentially banned handguns.
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So all the optics are in place for Alex to take these statistics totally out of context
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and present the image that they banned guns then boom, violent crime went through the
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roof.
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Either Alex doesn't know this explanatory context, in which case he's an idiot and
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doesn't understand the issues he covers, or he does know about this and he's intentionally
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lying about it and neither are good.
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Neither are a good situation.
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No, and even then, based on what we know now, it's hard to come down anywhere other than
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both at the same time.
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He's ignorant of all the stuff other than the fact that stuff would disprove what he's
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saying.
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He knows that what would disprove what he's saying exists, but he does not bother to learn
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about it.
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It would be too threatening to know.
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Exactly.
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So you stay...
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It's almost plausible deniability kind of thing.
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Yeah, yeah, possibly.
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I mean, it's impossible to know for sure, but yeah, I err on the side of he doesn't
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know just based on the fact that I think he's more stupid and reactionary than he is conniving.
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Yeah.
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I think that's probably a fair... I mean, there's still some conniving in him, don't
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get me wrong, but I don't know, I don't know.
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Base cunning, if you will.
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And it changes day to day.
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But in this next clip, we find that he has been so intense since Sandy Hook about how
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he knows that there's the war coming because the globalists are gonna come take his guns
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and everything, that he has been mean to his kids.
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That doesn't surprise me.
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No, that part doesn't at all, but where the clip goes did not make me happy.
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I'm usually nice to the crew.
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I'm gonna be honest with you.
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I gotta be nice to my wife and kids too, because my son was up here yesterday and he'd come
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over and pat me on the shoulder and I'd be like, hold on.
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And I've never been like that in my life.
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And it's because I am in total war mode.
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Yeah, come on.
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Okay, so we all...
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Patriots, we've all gotta be nice to each other.
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And we've all gotta be nice to our husbands and wives and our crew members and all of
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us.
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I know as patriots and people that are informed, we know evil when we see it.
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But let's keep the ammo down range because I gotta tell you, I mean, at a sixth sense
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animal level, I know I'm under attack.
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And I knew it was coming before this happened, I told you.
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I mean, it's on.
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And folks, my gut tells me they staged this.
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They bare minimum, that guy was a...
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Now the police say all the computers have been wiped and Easter bunnies are real.
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And the other shooters are saying, don't worry about that.
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And there were other people.
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They did it.
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My gut tells me they did it.
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This is a different level of my gut told me they did it.
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This is him reporting it and then every now and again bringing his gut into the conversation
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instead of it being based on his gut.
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Yeah.
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Also fun fact, Alex got divorced like a year after this.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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Yeah, and they didn't wipe the computers.
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Adam Lanza tried to destroy his computers before doing the attack and he did not do
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that totally successfully.
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Although a lot of the information was lost is my understanding.
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I haven't done a deep dive on that yet.
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But as I recall, it was him who did that, which makes sense.
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That would make sense.
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A lot of people do that.
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So this next clip, I mean, we don't really have much to go on from that last one other
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than Alex just being weird.
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But he gets back to Piers Morgan.
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And this is great because this is sort of a prelude to when Alex actually goes on Piers
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Morgan's show and does that great publicity stuff that he does.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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This is sort of a dry run of that, where on his own show, he screams at Piers Morgan and
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tells him to get out of America.
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That's nice.
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While Piers Morgan is calling Larry Pratt a liar on Communist News Network last night
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while he's a foreigner, nothing is foreigners.
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But I mean, don't come to my country and tell me give up my rights, especially when I had
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a war with your king over this 200 something years ago, punk.
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Kind of a touchy subject.
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Neither of you were involved in that, by the way.
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Once you get out of my country, you and Fareed Zarkaria, get out.
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Get out, you Bilderberg trash!
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Excuse me, get out of my country, scum.
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I mostly kept that in there because the excuse me is so weird.
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He yells, get out of my country, you Bilderberg trash.
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Excuse me, get out of my country, you scum.
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I can't think of any way.
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You know what?
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A lot of people don't want to swear on this show, and that includes me.
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And Bilderberg trash is the worst insult I can think of.
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That's not going to be a problem for the radio stations.
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No, they had to bleep that out.
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That's totally bizarre.
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No, they had to bleep that out.
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Excuse me, and then do the exact same thing a second later.
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So weird.
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In Alex's broadcast, Bilderberg trash might as well be the C-word.
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You know?
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Like, it's bad.
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I do agree with you on that.
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I think that he may feel that way.
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Yeah.
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But, oh god, so weird.
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So weird.
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That's the type of shit that I do not understand at all.
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That idea that you have a fucking personal vested interest in the civil war,
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or the Revolutionary War.
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I fought a war 200 years ago to kick your king out.
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No one was involved with that.
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Alex is his ancestors.
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Race memory.
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God, it's so stupid.
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His ancestors still live within his barely chest.
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You know that.
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He's talked about it a hundred times.
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We buried the hatchet into Native Americans because both countries are fucking garbage.
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How about that?
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That's a conversation he doesn't want to have.
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No, I doubt it.
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But he is the embodiment of all who have come before,
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and of course his ancestors are all these great people who did all the revolutions.
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At the very least Piers Morgan isn't.
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No, but his ancestors were under the king.
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They were serfs.
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They were part, they were redcoats.
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No, Piers Morgan's ancestors were the redcoats.
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They were at Lexington and Concord when Alex's ancestors kicked their ass.
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That doesn't track.
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Alex is sick of it. Who cares?
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Who cares if it tracks?
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It feels good to Alex and that's what matters.
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But neither of your, even your ancestors still didn't really care.
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They were both just, they were both just working stiffs, man.
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Or they were all working.
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Not Alex's, not Alex's ancestors.
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I mean part of being under the king is you just have to do what he says.
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Like you should feel some sort of empathy for the redcoats.
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Nah, Alex's family was all about freedom. Piers's was...
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Tyranny.
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Oh, damn it.
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That's all you need to know. It's that simple.
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I buy that for Piers Morgan.
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Just little outfits.
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So Alex loves guns, but he makes a pronouncement in this next clip that I found a bit upsetting
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about how great guns are.
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While he's talking, I'm going to be showing statistics where their crime rate exploded
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in England, highest in Europe after they took the guns, and how our crime rate is dropping.
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Guns are safe in this country and they are taking each little crime and making it huge
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on the news to give you the perception.
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Just like Jaws made people think there were great whites eating everybody.
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Five great white deaths a year.
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Not real folks.
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This isn't real.
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Uh, I guess, I guess Jaws isn't real.
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That's true.
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That's true.
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That's true.
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Uh, still going to go with Sandy Hook was real though.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think that's where I land on the Jaws v. Sandy Hook, uh, argument.
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Yeah, in terms of the argument that he's putting forth, I will say I agree with the premise
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that Jaws did cause a lot of people to be afraid of sharks unnecessarily.
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Isn't that weird that one of the greatest movies ever made, I don't know if I would
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go that far, but it was great, uh, also wound up having disastrous effects on like the sharks
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weren't even real in that movie.
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Yeah.
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Like, I think we killed millions of sharks because of it.
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And Alex, uh, at another point in this episode, he, he revisits this theme and he's talking
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about how like after Jaws, a bunch of beaches almost went bankrupt.
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There was no one coming.
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I'm like, I used to live in fucking Hawaii.
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I have family like who live in California.
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Most beaches don't, it can't fucking charge you to go on the beach.
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Beaches went bankrupt?
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Right.
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Beaches are like parks.
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Beaches went bankrupt.
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Yeah.
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We had to get rid of all of our sand.
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I think he, what he probably meant to say is like tourism went down to like tropical
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places or the concession stand was struggling, but the beach went bankrupt.
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Man's last battle against the shores, Dan.
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Right.
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Goddamn crazy shit.
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So, uh, he, uh, in this next clip, uh, raises the alarm and puts the word out that it's
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time for all good men to come to the aid of the party.
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Oh, that's not good.
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Calling all Patriots, calling anyone who's awake and under globalist mind control, they're
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stealing the pension funds and plotting the dollar, getting rid of the borders, bringing
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in world government, total NSA spying 1.6 billion bullets, armored vehicles, and treaded
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tanks being cashed and delivered into all major municipalities in preparation for total
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war against the American people.
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Total federalization of police.
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They're trying to fire all the good cops and have nothing but insane people that will give
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your wife cavity searches without warrants on the side of the road with no probable cause
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just randomly.
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We are entering authoritarianism.
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Yeah, but is anything, is anything bad happening though?
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All that stuff's pretty bad.
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Oh, is that what he was talking about?
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I mean, it's all bad, but he's still exaggerating pretty much all of it.
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Um, the, the reason I played that is the, the calling all, uh, calling all Patriots.
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We're in, we're in authoritarianism and it's like, well, how would someone hear that?
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They would hear that as a call to, especially after like, you know, talk of the revolutionary
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war and stuff like that.
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You would obviously hear that as a, it's time to overthrow this fucking government.
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Right.
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They did this terrorist attack on children because they want my guns.
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It's time to roll you.
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You know, you kind of have to, you, you hear that sort of thing.
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And especially with the laundry list of supposed crimes, uh, of which many are absolutely true.
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Some of them are fair.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Well, I mean, like, like bring up the NSA and you're right.
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Right.
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Militarization of the police, absolutely fine point, but it's not to have war on the Patriots
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or something like that.
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That's where you go off track.
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War on the minorities.
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Alex, you should be for that.
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Right.
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You, you, you're, you're jumping the gun.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you're supposed to be upset about this later.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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When you got a white guy in charge.
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But one of the reasons that I, I, I kept it in is because I think that there's like an
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extremeness to that.
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And then there's an extremeness and comedy as to what he says immediately after that.
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So there's that laundry list of things that the government's doing.
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Um, and then he says this.
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And we are entering authoritarianism, but the gun culture laid down by our forebears
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in a fight against the redcoats is now reactivating and is the number one shows all over TV.
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And you look at the top 10 shows on cable, half of them are gun shows.
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Everybody's getting into guns.
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I told you we've been winning culturally, but the empire was going to strike with everything
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they've got.
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So it's interesting.
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Why is it that the next thing he says is like, everyone loves gun shows.
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I think it's not like he's talking about like a place you go and you can buy a gun under
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the radars and he's talking about TV shows about guns.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So you can still find, what is he including in that?
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Does he have a vested interest in one of those gun shows?
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Is there, well, you can still find the ratings for TV shows back in 2012 and they don't reflect
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anything close to what Alex is saying.
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He's presenting the idea that gun shows make up half of the top 10 shows on cable.
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So deadline is a breakdown of the 2012 TV season on network channels.
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So I checked that out to see if there were any gun shows on there.
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Two and a half guns.
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Sunday Night Football.
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Young Gun Sheldon.
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Sunday Night Football came in number one.
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Sunday Night Football Guns.
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Big Bang Theory was at number two.
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Big Gun Theory.
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The horribly disappointing show about a futuristic world with dinosaurs in it that was called
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Revolution came in at number 13.
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Wait, what show?
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You remember Revolution?
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I do not remember Revolution.
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It was like the future, but there's no more electricity and then there's dinosaurs cause
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they have to go back into the past.
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It's complicated.
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All right.
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It was very disappointing though.
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The premise got me very excited.
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Of course.
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You thought it would be like Lost with Dinosaurs.
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To fill my post-lost world.
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Your lost lost.
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Yeah.
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So that came in at number 13.
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Betty White's prank show off their rockers just missed the top hundred coming in at number 101.
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What?
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Zero gun programs.
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She had a show called...
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It was old people pranking people.
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In retrospect, that sounds pretty great.
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Came in at number 101.
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So no gun programs on there to speak of unless you count something like NCIS as a gun show,
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which I don't think you would.
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So if you check in with Nielsen, they have the ratings for network and cable programming
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combined and the top 10 most watched programs of 2012 were all number one through eight
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being NFL football.
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Number nine was the Summer Olympics opening ceremony and number 10 was the Grammys.
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Their top 10 ratings for regularly scheduled program was three entries for the NFL,
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two entries for American Idol, two entries for Dancing with the Stars,
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then NCIS, The Voice and the show Vegas.
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They have a top 10 of programs that were recorded to watch later, like on DVRs.
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And what do you know?
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Zero gun programs.
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Just Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Justified, Fringe, Sons of Anarchy, American Horror Story, and
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of course, Suits.
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Exactly what you would expect.
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That's the shows that people watch.
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Yeah, that's a cross section of the masses of whom TV is the opiate.
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Mm-hmm, so TV Guide put out a list of the top 25 most watched shows of the year and
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that includes both network and cable.
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Duck Dynasty could maybe be called a gun show.
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That was the only one I was thinking that I remember from that time having a outsized
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popularity for how stupid it was.
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And that one came in at number 21, well below Modern Family and post Charlie Sheen version
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of Two and a Half Men.
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I'm not sure that qualifies as something that would scare the globalists, that Duck
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Dynasty is at number 21.
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Right, right, right, right.
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Oh no.
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So all that seemed incredibly unsatisfying since it all still involved network shows,
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even the ones that had both network and cable.
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And since Alex is specifically talking about cable shows, I didn't feel done.
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Thankfully, after doing a little more digging, I found a list of the most watched cable shows
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of 2012.
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Interestingly, the article was posted on December 12th.
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So this should be fresh in Alex's stacks of paper.
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It's right there.
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It's only like a week before this.
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Here's the top 10.
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You tell me if there's anything on this list that you would call a gun culture show.
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Okay.
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And this is in order.
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The Walking Dead.
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The Closer.
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Rizzoli and Isles.
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Major Crimes.
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Pawn Stars.
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Rizzoli and Isles?
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Everyone loved it.
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Dallas.
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Sons of Anarchy.
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Right.
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Suits.
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Suits.
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And Jersey Shore.
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What was Suits about?
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I don't remember.
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Jersey Shore counts as a gun show because they were always taking their shirts off.
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Sons of Guns out.
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Go not to the gun show.
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I think you could make a terrible argument that Pawn Stars might be, because they sometimes
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have antique guns on it, but it's not regularly.
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What would shows like Gundam Wing be considered gun shows?
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No, that's just part of the word.
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Look, I don't know.
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I don't think any of those are gun shows necessarily.
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I mean, I guess Sons of Anarchy, there's violence in it.
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Major Crimes, I'm sure some people got shot.
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That's just like a procedural kind of drama.
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I think I was looking through this list.
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I'm like, I don't know what half of these fucking shows are.
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No clue.
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I don't know what Suits is.
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I don't want to know what Suits is.
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Nope.
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I'm fine with it.
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I don't know what Major Crimes is specifically.
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I know I have a picture.
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See, now I think of Major Pain.
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Suits, I got no idea.
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Perception, I have no idea what that was.
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I don't really know what Rizzoli and Isles was.
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I've only heard people make jokes about it.
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Wait, was Rizzoli and Isles the one with Zack from Saved by the Bell and What's His Face?
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Mark Paul Gosselaar?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And Breckenmeyer?
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Yeah, was that that one?
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Maybe.
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That's Franklin and Bash.
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They're the same fucking show!
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Yeah.
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They're all the same show.
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The Ampersand.
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Boston Legal or whatever it is.
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The Ampersand, the Blank and Blank is, yeah, it's trouble.
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I don't know what any of those things are, but I do know what Revolution is.
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Because I was very disappointed by it.
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I'm sorry.
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So also this Entertainment Weekly article provides breakdowns for all these different
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demographics, like adults 18 to 49 and adults 25 to 54, and none of them contain any gun shows.
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I literally have no idea what Alex is talking about.
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I can't make sense of it.
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It does not track with any of the actual statistic-keeping places.
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Yeah, that's kind of infuriating that you can just say that.
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Yep, I know.
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That is almost legally actionable, like all of television should be able to sue him for libel.
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It's weird.
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I was very confused, and I don't know if we're gonna find out more about it in a little bit.
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Oh!
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I don't know.
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Maybe we will.
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You're looking like a tease.
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So at this point, Alex brings back in another guest he's already had in the aftermath of
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Sandy Hook, and that is Stuart Rhodes, the guy who started the Oath Keepers.
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Right.
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He's having these really extreme gun dudes on very regularly.
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It's almost like, you know, I don't know how to describe it, but you remember when Jimmy
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Kimmel Live first started, and he'd have a guest co-host that would be there for a week?
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No.
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He used to have like, it was a week, and you'd have like Snoop Dogg was the guest for the week.
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I do not watch any of the late night shows.
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I don't either, but I remember that because I was like 19 when it happened or something like that.
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It was kind of an innovative, interesting idea.
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It feels the same way with this rotating cast of these gun weirdos.
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Like Larry Pratt coming on twice in like three days.
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Stuart Rhodes coming on twice in like three days.
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It seems like these are the only people he has any interest in putting their message forth.
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Yeah, that makes sense though, because in this time especially, even if he's not doing
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his own bookings, which he probably has a hand in, but even if he's not doing them solely,
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naturally he would want to surround himself with the most psychopathic gun people that
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he can in order to insulate himself from any kind of empathy that he might feel.
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That's possible.
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And the same way that he's putting that shit out in order to make his listeners afraid
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and distract them from the tragedy of the situation, he also needs to be distracted.
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Yeah, that may be the case.
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He wants them to keep him on the straight and narrow, which is neither straight nor narrow.
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Yeah.
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It's just a path shaped like a gun.
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So Alex has Stuart on and he starts at the top of the hour.
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And as we know, the first segment of the top of each hour is not broadcast on the radio.
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That's for the station.
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Yeah.
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Each radio station gets to do what they want with that first like six minutes.
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And so Alex has already said, I want to talk to Stuart Rhodes and then whatever he says,
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we'll recap it.
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That sort of thing.
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Great.
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Good radio.
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Professional.
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Yeah.
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And so as they're going out to break, Stuart Rhodes starts talking about how like the militias
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are great.
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And no.
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And he has a quote from the founding father.
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No, I don't want to hear it.
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Well, you're gonna.
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Damn it.
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And then Alex makes a declaration right as they're going out to break that solves a mystery
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that I think we've had for a very long time.
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It's like Trenchcock, the founding father said.
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He said the Congress has no power to disarm the militia.
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Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of an American.
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The unlimited power of the...
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Stay there.
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I want the full quote when we come back.
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That's right.
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The birthright is military arms.
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So we've wondered what he means by your birthright.
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Well, there it is.
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Turns out it means military grade arms.
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Is that just for natural born citizens or are immigrant citizens allowed to also have
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that birthright?
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That's a question I can't answer based on Alex's stuff.
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You know, I don't know.
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I know what my gut tells me.
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It's that it's fake.
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So do you did you catch the founding father that was being quoted there?
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Uh, I heard the name, but I couldn't place it.
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I had to replay it a number of times and I still had to Google and try and find out who
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he's talking about.
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Didn't he say like Trutch something?
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Tenchcocks.
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Tenchcocks?
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That sounds fake as fuck.
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We need to retroactively remove that name from founding fathers.
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It's T-E-N-C-H-C-O-X-E.
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Boy.
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Now I would say on the list of founding fathers, Tenchcocks comes in way, way down the list.
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I really can't believe that's a real name.
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In fact, I would go so far as to say he wasn't a founding father at all.
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He was just a fucking guy who was around in the 1700s who loved militias.
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That's good enough for Alex and Stuart to consider him one of the great founders of
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this country.
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He was a guy who was around.
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Funnily enough, after the country was founded, Cox declared himself a Whig, but then within
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five years decided he was actually a Federalist, which then helped him secure a position as
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the Revenue Commissioner in the Washington administration.
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Then a few years later, he decided he wasn't really a Federalist, but was actually a Democratic
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Republican.
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Curiously around the same time that someone from that party, Thomas Jefferson, was president
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who then made him purveyor of public supplies.
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Great.
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Because he changed parties so frequently and so opportunistically during the first few
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years of the country's existence, many began leveling accusations that he was actually
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a British spy and a Tory.
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I'm not sure about those accusations, but I do know that his critics would refer to
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him often as Mr. Facing Both Ways, which is-
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All right, guys, guys, founding fathers, fucking pick up your game.
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Mr. Facing Both Ways.
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Jesus Christ.
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As far as nicknames go-
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You could have called him Janus.
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You guys knew about history.
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That's true.
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You guys knew about mythology.
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As far as nicknames go, I think that is a better nickname than Mr. Worldwide, which
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of course is Pitbull, but not as good a nickname as Mr. Steal Your Girl.
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Definitely not as good as Mr. Steal Your Girl.
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Mr. Facing Both Ways is the hero of Stuart Rhodes.
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That is the weakest shit.
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It was pretty scathing at the time.
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I believe he was scathing at the time.
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Mr. Lies out of his face all the time.
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Also, Tench Cox was widely credited-
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I still can't believe that's a name.
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Yeah, he was widely credited with pushing for cotton to be the main crop grown into
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the American South.
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It's worth mentioning that he was opposed to slavery, as he wrote in a letter from 1808,
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quote-
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To his wife Trunch Dicks.
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Quote, were the slave trade right, safe, and constitutional, a single year would give us
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the cotton business, which they do now, referring to other countries.
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But as labor is and is likely to be in America, we shall make a progress a little slower,
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but not less certain in transferring to our hands much of this business of raising those
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supplies.
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Though philosophically opposed to slavery, Cox's actions in rallying for and lobbying
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towards a southern economy, largely based on cotton, ended up being one of the greatest
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drivers towards the rationalization of and acceptance of slavery in America.
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From PBS, quote-
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Within 10 years of the cotton gin being put into use, the value of the total United States
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crop leaped from $150,000 to more than $8 million.
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This success of this plantation crop made it much more difficult for slaves to purchase
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their freedom or obtain it through the goodwill of their masters.
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From 1790 to 1810, close to 100,000 slaves moved to the new cotton lands in the South
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and West.
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From 1810 till the Civil War, 100,000 slaves were forced westward each decade, half a
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million in total.
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As cotton cultivation spread, slaveholders and the tobacco belt, whose crop was no longer
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profitable, made huge profits by selling their slaves.
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This domestic slave trade devastated black families.
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American-born slaves were torn from the plantations they had known all their lives, placed in
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shackles, and forced marched hundreds of miles away from their loved ones.
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The enslaved populations in cotton-producing states saw increases of 27.5% per decade in
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the early 1800s, and it can all be traced back to the exact problem that Tench Cox was
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clearly aware of in his 1808 letter, namely that if we do this reasonably, it'll take
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a while.
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If we had slavery, we could take over this market in a year.
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Yeah.
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It's a labor question.
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It's one of the things that I hate now thinking about in regards to like your...
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Tench Cox?
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Well, no, that's a fun name to think about.
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No, in regards to like your elementary school education where you're like, and one of
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the biggest inventions of the time was Eli Whitney's cotton gin, and they didn't provide
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that asterisk next to it.
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Footnote, Eli Whitney's cotton gin led to a massive explosion in slavery, and it's a
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horrifying thing.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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And Tench Cox wanted cotton to be king.
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Yeah.
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Untended consequences, perhaps.
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So speaking of that 1808 letter I was telling you about that I read a little bit from, Cox
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has an interesting rationale for what benefits there were to getting into the cotton market.
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Quote, the southern militia, as it is conceived, would acquire the spirit of a core if the
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state governments were to make a blue cotton cloth with white or yellow cotton under the
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clothes this spring, summer, and autumn for peace uniforms.
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It would certainly take at this moment, if introduced under impressive auspices, and
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would have effects equally important in the good of the militia, natural manufacturers,
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and this great and novel cultivation.
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Though opposed to slavery, Tench Cox is at least partially directly responsible for creating
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the market where slavery exploded and got way, way worse.
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And his reasons for that were that he could make a lot of money and that the southern
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militia could get cool uniforms.
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Yeah, that sounds a lot like a founding father though.
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Sounds a lot like a Stuart Rhodes Alex Jones founding father.
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That has every, that has all the same fucking connotations of our current politicians where
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they're like, hey, look, I think climate change is bad.
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Yeah.
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I don't want to move on it though because I am getting a lot of money and I think we
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can make a lot of money if we don't do anything about it.
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That's all I'm saying.
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We got, you get this, you get this, like you demystify it a little bit.
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Like why is Stuart Rhodes quoting Tench Cox as a founding father?
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Why does Stuart Rhodes know who Tench Cox is?
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Well, because he's the motherfucker who inadvertently or surreptitiously made slavery super terrible
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and was a big supporter of the militias.
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Right, but-
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Missed a face in both ways.
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So, Jesus, but, but then that means that what he's reading about in history is the guys
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who made slavery worse and-
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But I think he just ignores that part.
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Right, right, right.
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Making slavery worse part isn't calculus for him.
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No.
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It's just about like, oh yeah, he wanted cotton to be awesome so that these awesome
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Southern militias could get uniforms.
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Right, but that's, that speaks to-
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That's the part that would be covered in the book that they would be interested in reading.
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Exactly.
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That's what I'm saying.
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You and I have never heard of Tench Cox because we're not reading crazy militia fucking deifying
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books.
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I might have heard of him at some point, but you'd think he'd remember the name.
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You would have to remember that.
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Tench Cox.
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On my deathbed, I'll be like, dude, Tench Cox.
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That'll be your rosebud.
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Stupid name.
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Yeah.
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You're like, well, what is he talking about?
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Tench Cox.
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That sounds so fucking stupid.
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God, oh.
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Wild.
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Man.
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A little interesting history lesson.
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Anyway, in this next clip, Alex gets back to the laundry list of things that he has
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to be upset about.
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Right.
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Such as the founding father Clench Butts.
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This has more to do with the oppression of gun culture.
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Oh, okay.
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Sorry.
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Stores from Walmart to Dick's are saying we're not going to sell semi-auto.
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Cheaper than dirt.
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Biggest online seller of guns.
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Not going to sell guns.
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Three Discovery Channel shows canceled in 24 hours.
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One of them the second highest rated on the network.
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Aha, now we have a new clue to what he's talking about with the TV shows.
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Alright, alright.
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He's talking specifically about Discovery and History Channel TV shows.
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Well, not History, it's all Discovery.
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So we can find what are the shows that were canceled in 2012 that he might be talking
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about.
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The three shows Alex could be talking about here getting canceled are American Chopper,
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Dirty Jobs, and American Guns.
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The last one is clearly what he's talking about with the TV shit for this entire time
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that he's been talking about TV gun shows being so awesome.
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I should have known it was just some bullshit where he's like, I like this reality show
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and it got canceled.
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Right, right, right.
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He's the Firefly fan of gun shows.
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It would be easy to assume that the show was canceled because of Sandy Hook, given the
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timing of the announcement of its cancellation.
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But according to Deadline, sources at Discovery said, quote, the decision was quietly made
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a while ago.
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However, it didn't come to light until today.
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It wasn't so much canceled as it was not picked up for a third season.
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And the reasons given were that the network felt that there wasn't any story left to tell
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with the characters on the show.
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And more importantly, their ratings in the second season, quote, finished down double
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digits from season one, despite a strong start to the season.
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Had a bit of a sophomore slump.
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A little bit.
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No more story left to tell.
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About what?
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Gun people.
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People who have American guns.
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It really does seem like that's a quick story.
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You don't even need Ed Burns for that documentary.
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This type of shit happens every time some gun show or some bullshit conservative leaning
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thing gets canceled.
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All the Alex Jones types take the cancellation that was due to some network decision making
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that ends up getting the same sort of thing that gets any other show canceled.
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Tim Allen!
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And they repurpose it as proof of a war on conservatives in the media.
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It's so goddamn lame.
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But I realized that maybe I should have co-opted that argument to see if I could have got that
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disappointing futuristic show that had dinosaurs in it.
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It was called Revolution.
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See if I could have got it a second season.
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Maybe they could have figured out and righted the ship.
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They wouldn't have.
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No, probably not.
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No.
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Anyway, Alex is an idiot and he's just mad that his favorite show, American Guns, got
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canceled that had bad ratings.
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That is so fucking pathetic.
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But you hear that the way he's talking there.
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He's like three shows on Discovery got canceled.
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One of them had really high ratings.
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Yeah.
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One of the highest ratings in the network.
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That's probably Dirty Jobs because that was a pretty popular show.
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Yeah.
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They probably just...
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But it also was in like...
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It's late seasons.
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Right.
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So it was like...
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And Mike Rowe is pretty...
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He doesn't want to do that anymore probably.
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And he's also a conservative douchebag.
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So there probably was because they were putting it...
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He made some Facebook posts supporting trickle-down economics, Dan.
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We got to get them off our fucking airwaves.
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Even if it was, it has nothing to do with Guns like Alex is presenting it.
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But it turns out there's one more show that got canceled.
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What are we doing?
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I don't know anymore.
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They just canceled the other big show.
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So it's actually four shows.
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Ted Nugent.
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High rated.
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High rated.
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Nope.
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High.
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Because it was good-looking women out there learning how to shoot.
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Men shooting.
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Target practice.
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How to build guns.
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I'm telling you, I've been telling you for years that Gun Culture has been on fire.
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So Gun Culture has been on fire.
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Ted Nugent's show is canceled.
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And this is bullshit because it had high ratings.
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High ratings.
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I didn't know Ted Nugent had a show.
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So already that's a bad sign.
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Spoiler alert.
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He didn't.
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Okay.
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Well, what the fuck is happening?
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So an interesting thing happens when you search Google for Ted Nugent show canceled.
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It turns out that the nuge is the kind of guy who's pretty familiar with that kind of thing happening.
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As it relates to his show on Discovery, it didn't get canceled.
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According to Discovery, Nugent, he had a thing that was on there called Gun Country.
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It was, quote, always intended to be a one-hour special.
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You know, Jordan, like something that isn't a recurring show.
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No, but what?
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They just did a one-off one-hour thing with Ted Nugent and some guns.
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They also said that it, quote, fared poorly in the ratings.
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Nugent claimed that he was working on a series of them,
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but spokespeople from the network said that is absolutely not true.
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Interestingly, in other Ted Nugent show cancellation news,
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in 2014, multiple shows on Nugent's tour were canceled.
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One of them, at an Idaho casino,
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was canceled with the venue citing issues with Nugent being a racist.
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Really?
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An Idaho casino?
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According to Billboard, they, quote,
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booked Nugent without realizing he espoused racist attitudes and views.
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And they, quote, did not detail which of Nugent's specific views it opposes.
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Which is kind of an open question, since he says so much racist shit, it's hard to pin down.
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Yeah, if I listed all of the racist comedians that I've ever met
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who still work regularly at casinos, it would be a long conversation.
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So immediately after he loses this gig at the Idaho casino,
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two more of his shows at Tacoma, Washington's Emerald Queen casino
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were canceled, ostensibly for similar reasons.
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Yeah.
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Uh, also, in 2012, Ted Nugent was kicked off a concert at Fort Knox
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being put on by the goddamn army,
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where he was scheduled to open for REO Speedwagon and Styx.
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This was in the lead up to the 2012 election back in April of that year,
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so the army wasn't thrilled with the recent comments Ted Nugent had made
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in a video posted on the NRA's official YouTube page.
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Quote, if Barack Obama becomes the president in November again,
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I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.
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If you can't go home and get everybody in your lives to clean house
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of this vile, evil, American-hating administration,
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I don't even know what you're made of.
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Considering he'd also previously called Obama a quote,
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subhuman mongrel,
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there's a decent chance that this one should have also been canceled for races.
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You would think.
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But also, that's a fucking threat, that he's gonna murder the president.
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Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what that is.
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Yeah.
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Also, just because it's fun,
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the day before Ted Nugent was kicked off this Fort Knox concert,
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he'd come to a plea agreement on charges he was facing
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for illegally killing a black bear in Alaska and transporting it across state lines.
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Strangely enough, he'd killed that bear for an episode of his show Spirit of the Wild
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that aired on the Outdoor Channel,
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which should give any network second thoughts about having him on your network,
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even leaving aside all the stuff about how he clearly likes underage girls
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and he's a flaming racist.
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Well, I'd never kill a polar bear.
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Might, you might.
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Those are, those are white.
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It turns out, he also, beyond all the, like, just humanity disrespecting things about him,
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he also doesn't respect nature and responsible hunting the way he pretends to.
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It's almost like that's all just a character these people wear to be able to go kill things.
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It's kind of like that's what they're really into.
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Ted Nugent is a real piece of shit.
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Yeah.
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He's a real piece of shit.
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He's a bull...
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He's an asshole onion.
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There's so many layers to it, he's like,
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oh, we could talk for days about how fucked up he was.
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I thought we were done with how fucked up Ted Nugent was.
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I knew all I needed to know and now there's more pieces of his assholery.
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Oh yeah.
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Also, in a moment of delicious irony, in July 2018,
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Ted Nugent himself banned guns at his concert at the Berglund Center in Virginia.
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The venue is city-owned,
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so management cannot deny open carry permits of citizens
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unless it's specifically requested by the performer.
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The manager of the club, Robin Seon, said that the request came from Nugent's team.
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Given the things that have happened at nightclubs like Pulse and what happened at Manchester,
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Nugent's security people are taking extra precautions.
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When the subject of guns came up, Nugent's people said,
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oh no, our agreement says no.
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During the show, which was far from sold out,
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Nugent used his stage pattern to talk about how great he is, which isn't a surprise.
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He also used the time to specifically insult a man named Andy Parker.
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Parker's daughter and co-worker were murdered at Bridgewater Plaza
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by a disgruntled former co-worker who shot them.
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So Parker decided to buy a billboard calling Nugent a draft-dodging racist has-been.
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Yeah, no, I agree with all those.
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So Nugent took to the stage and said, quote,
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if I get too political, fuck you.
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This is dedicated to everybody,
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including those dumb motherfuckers who are protesting me because they're still grieving.
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When you lose a loved one, we pray for you.
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When you lose a loved one,
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we prayed for him, didn't we?
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How the fuck do you hate the Nugent family when we're praying for you, you dumb fuck?
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So many ways.
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So many ways.
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I can, oh man, I can list a whole long list.
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Oh, so many ways.
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Can I hate you, Ted Nugent?
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I would say a classy move would just be ignore it.
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Ignore the billboard.
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Don't go on stage and start screaming with this dumb motherfucker who's still grieving.
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Yeah, he doesn't strike a good tone there with the whole,
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hey, hey, look at this idiot still grieving the death of his family or whatever it is like that.
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I said a prayer for him and then worked my ass off to make sure that this will continue to happen.
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Exactly.
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And he thinks I'm some sort of asshole.
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The issue is that the reason that Nugent would be mad at this guy
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is because he's bringing up the idea that he's associated with the NRA
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and these people make gun registration, gun regulation impossible.
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And then it is so funny that at this concert where he's screaming about this guy,
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his team had said no guns in the venue, which makes it now a disarmament zone
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that all these people are so afraid of.
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You have no guns there.
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Now you're sitting ducks for the guns.
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Yeah.
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So Nugent claimed that he said all guns were welcome and that the venue and the evil media
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are lying to which the venue replied, quote, we stand by what we said Tuesday night.
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And this is the end of our Ted Nugent story.
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I thought that the answer to bad people with guns is good people with guns.
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I thought they'd like, if you're afraid of the pulse nightclub shooting, then you should,
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you should have more good people, your fans there with guns.
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Or you actually don't.
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You actually don't believe that you banned guns at your own fucking concert.
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Well, he doesn't want to get hurt.
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Of course not.
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Stupid sons of bitches.
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Yep.
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I hate this shit.
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I hate him.
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I hate that.
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When you find something like that, that's what really sets me off.
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Like to an extent that I usually don't get too worked up, but that sort of thing.
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Someone like motherfucking Ted Nugent, one of the worst pieces of shit in the world between
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his clear love of underage women, his violent threats towards public officials, his overt
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racism, his clear inability to live by his own principles as it relates to preservation
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of wilderness and nature, which is supposed to be his big thing.
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And why he loves guns and crossbows so much is because it's like, oh, I respect nature
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and help with the balance and all that shit.
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All that stuff's hypocrisy.
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And then you have an instance like this where it's like, I fear for my own safety, exactly
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what you said.
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And so I say no guns at the venue where I'm at.
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That's not even a principle for you.
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You stupid asshole.
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Like you make it so everyone else gets hurt and then you wield what power you have to
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try and insulate yourself from your own fans.
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It's fucking bullshit.
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People should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
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If they could feel shame, they would not be themselves.
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That is the underlying issue there.
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And then the fucking cowardly nonsense of like, I didn't say that.
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I didn't say that.
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Oh, that is so cowardly.
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Fake news.
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That is so cowardly.
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Fake news.
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I'm a big fan of any pithy statement simply because of its brevity.
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Just that.
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And that is the last we have to say on this story.
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That is the end of our Ten Nugent story.
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Yeah.
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Nailed it.
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Yeah.
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That recalls the, what's the, if we take your, if we conquer you, we'll burn your cities
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to the ground.
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And then the reply message is, if.
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Like, damn, that's fucking good.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And it leads me to believe that they're right.
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You know?
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Oh, yeah.
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That sort of a response is like, come on, Ted.
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Yeah.
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Come on.
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Cut it out.
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A good pithy response makes you win the argument regardless.
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They could have been lying out their teeth, but with a statement like that, you won.
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Yeah.
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So bottom line, fuck Ted Nugent and everything he stands for and the horse he rode in on.
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Fuck Ted Nugent.
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Guy is just the worst.
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Somehow the end result of our years, like when we end this podcast, our years long discussion
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of Alex Jones will really be boiled down to fuck Ted Nugent.
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Yeah.
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That's the true goal.
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We stealth this in here.
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I look forward to the next time he comes up because I can't imagine what more awful things
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we can find about him.
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I've never read.
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He's a bottomless well.
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I've never read anything good about him.
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Do you understand that?
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I've never read a single thing that's good about him because Alex can't write.
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Right.
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He's said good things about him.
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Right, right.
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But also I question the source.
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I've never heard anybody be like, you know who's a great guy?
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Ted Nugent.
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That's a good question.
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I don't even, has he ever even had a well reviewed album?
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Like, yeah.
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You think so?
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I think that Double Live Gonzo is considered like one of the best live albums.
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Really?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think so.
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As I understand.
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I would have gone with Portishead live in NYC, but that's just me.
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Budokan.
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Just the venue?
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Can you imagine?
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Also, I was thinking about that Fort Knox show with Nugent, REO Speedwagon and Styx.
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Can you imagine, like, REO Speedwagon being like, we're going to kill the president.
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He got kicked off that fucking show.
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Imagine the fucking guy from Styx acting like that kind of an asshole.
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Oh, man.
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I wish more bands just turned towards that.
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I don't.
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I think it'd be fun.
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I'd like it if Lindsey's plenty.
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I think it'd be more fun if Lindsey Buckingham just went out on stage and was like, hey,
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this next song is going to be another one of our hits, but also let's kill the president.
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All right, let's go, guys.
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Donald Fagan just loses it in the middle of a peg and starts screaming about assassination.
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Could be.
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So I think there's one thing that's really confusing me, and I think it's partially because
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he has all of these same guests on all the time, is that I don't know where a lot of
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our players are.
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A lot of the people that we know from Alex's world, where are they?
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They're around somewhere.
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Steve Pechenik is glaring in his absence.
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He's around.
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Alex and him are both big Sandy Hook deniers for a long time and initially.
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So I expect to see him somewhere.
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I can't find him anywhere.
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All these other dudes, too, like Gerald Cilenti is nowhere to be found.
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Peter Schiff isn't around.
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I don't know, who else?
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Paul Craig Roberts.
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None of these guys.
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It's weird.
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In this next clip, we do hear about somebody, but he's not on or anything, but we do hear
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about somebody and where he's at as it relates to Sandy Hook.
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You'll see some of these headlines.
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How the Newtown Massacre became a mind control event by John Rappaport, great investigative
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journalist.
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Oh, boy.
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Oh, hang up that goddamn picture.
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Turns out Rappaport was into either using this to brainwash people mind control the
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public.
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Of course he is.
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Classic Rappaport.
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Classic Rappaport.
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Go fuck yourself, John Rappaport.
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I'm sure he'll show up pretty soon, too.
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Alex is now reminded of him, and now I imagine we'll get some of that juicy Rappaport action.
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So Stuart Rhodes is on because he has a new pledge of allegiance or a pledge of independence.
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No, no, done.
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Cancel it.
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Cancel this whole fucking show.
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I don't want to hear this goddamn new pledge of allegiance.
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I don't even like the regular pledge of allegiance.
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That shit is fucked up.
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It's not a pledge of allegiance.
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I kind of misspoke.
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It's more of a pledge of independence, but it's all just the same Oathkeeper shit.
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It's still just like, we're not going to take guns from people.
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If you try and take our guns, that's a line in the sand.
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I pledge this as a line that I won't cross, all that stuff.
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And it's like, you're just reiterating the same fucking shit you say all the time.
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It's no big deal.
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So trust me, it's not going to be too offensive.
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And I do believe that if we play this out and listen to it, you'll see what Alex is
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doing a little bit.
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He's using Stuart a little bit in addition to Stuart using him.
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Okay.
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Very symbiotic thing.
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Okay.
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So anyway, Alex starts it off on a bad foot.
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Going back to Stuart.
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Stuart, it says my personal pledge of resistance against any attempt to disarm us by means
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of an assault weapons ban.
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Give us your pledge here on air.
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And I hope that others speak out with their pledge because we are the majority of people
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that don't have their shoelaces.
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You know, the welfare heads and stuff don't count.
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We are the power in this country, but we better exercise it now.
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It is because we know what he's talking about.
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Yeah.
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We know his code.
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That's the welfare queen.
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Don't know how to tie their shoes.
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We're the majority.
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We're the ones who count.
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White.
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There is that subtext to it entirely.
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So in this next clip, this is what I think is actually the most important thing.
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This doesn't really speak to Alex using Stuart.
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But Stuart accidentally says something that I think is entirely accurate about what him
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and Alex are trying to do.
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Get innocent people killed.
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Well, I mean, that's the, that's the end result of what they're trying to do, but they're
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talking about stage one, not stage three.
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I gotcha.
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Well, yeah.
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And what's happening now is you're, you're finding out who the actual, you know, who
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the, who the mealy-mouthed fake conservatives and fake constitutionalists really are.
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All these big outlets that are taking guns off the shelf, all these conservatives, so
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called conservatives who are now willing to put guns on the table and talk about a solomist
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ban.
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These are people who never understood the right to bear arms, never understood the constitution,
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never understood liberty in the first place.
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And so this is going to be a dividing issue among the political right in this country.
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No shit.
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He also even goes so far as to say it's a career changing moment for politicians and
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for people.
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Like what he's describing there is like, this is an opportunity for us to radicalize
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people and make sure that our ship is free of people who have resisted that radicalization.
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Right.
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That's a hundred percent like what is behind what he's saying.
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And he's absolutely a hundred percent accurate because I think that you've made this point
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in the past episodes that we've had about Sandy Hook is like, once you get past that
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point, no matter how decently or reasonably you present yourself, you're past that point.
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Yeah.
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And so people who stuck around with, even if it is just sort of the conventional GOP
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line of resisting any gun legislation at all, any regulation, you're past that point.
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You are radical.
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Yeah.
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And that's what he's describing.
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Yep.
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Kick the, kick the dummies out.
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So I think that it's interesting that you can see the awareness there.
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I think that that's interesting that they, they like from like a couple days after Sandy
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Hook, there's even an awareness that what they're doing is getting up any moderation
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out of this thing, getting it all like as extreme as we can make it because it has to
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be that sort of thing.
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Well, at the same time saying that their opponents are politicizing this event, they're openly
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admitting that our main goal with this is to radicalize people.
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And radicalize politics.
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Exactly.
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And the interesting thing that I think is probably, like, I think they might be aware
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of this, but not necessarily, I don't know, but they don't kick out everybody who, or,
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or it's not like, hey, we get past this point, everybody who's still on board and isn't like
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voting against our second amendment or whatever, you know, get them all out.
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Because there's people who are still the, the cuck conservatives as they might be called,
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like a Marco Rubio is still around.
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Right.
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And I think that like to say in people, Marco Rubio is still past the radicalization point.
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Absolutely.
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But people like him are still important as punching bags for people like Stuart Rhodes
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and Alex Jones.
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Right.
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They need those moderate radicals.
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In order to push the Overton window so far that what we would consider a moderate radical,
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like, or just a moderate GOP Republican like Marco Rubio is actually now an incredibly
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radical politician, but the Overton window has just moved so far right that you're like,
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well, that must be moderate because he's not openly saying, kill the president.
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Well, and like, I think there's an awareness among people like Stuart and Alex that like,
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if everybody was exactly what they wanted, the world and like governing would be unmanageable.
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Yeah.
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Like if everybody was goddamn Louie Gohmert and Steve King,
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like these tea party politicians that they pushed for.
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There actually would be a revolution.
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Well, if it was like, if that was all the Republicans that were in office,
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they would get nothing done.
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They have no idea how to do anything.
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It would be scandal after scandal, or they would all get voted out.
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And the ultimate end result of that would probably.
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You just described Trump.
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Well, no, he got nothing done.
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Well, they did pass the dumbest tax cut and everything else in history.
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But you still needed McConnell to do those things.
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Right, right, right.
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And McConnell isn't somebody that Alex likes.
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He thinks he's a GOP shill.
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I'm sure he likes him much more now.
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Right.
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But back then he's like, fuck that guy.
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So like he needs those people in order to keep the ball moving or whatever.
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Right.
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And then he needs the Louie Gohmerts of the world to be like, this is what we need.
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Yeah.
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We need more of this with the full recognition that no,
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what you need is a goddamn Mitch McConnell, who's exactly what you hate.
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It's insane.
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You need to radicalize, but you need to bring the people who know how to do the work
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along with you and keep them somehow cloistered from the, like the outright association with
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denying Sandy Hook, being a Nazi, those sorts of things.
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Because if all of your people who know how to get anything done are like you,
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then it becomes too clear what your party is about.
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Yeah.
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It's an interesting system.
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And I think, I don't know, it's just a lot of the thoughts that were coming up as I heard
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this very intentional drive towards radicalization.
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It's a way for the, and it's so important for the moderates, not moderates, for the
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fucking evil conniving pieces of shit like Mitch McConnell and Marco Rubio to have these
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assholes around in the same way that it's important for our assholes to have those assholes
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around because the moderate guys can paint themselves as moderate while at the same time
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being the most fucking radical douchebag conservatives that you can be.
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Because you can always point to Steve King and say, look, we're not that guy.
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See, we're compassionate conservatives.
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Right.
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And that's what Alex's entire career is based on is being that guy, being the Steve King
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of radio or whatever for like Rush and Hannity to be like, I'm not fucking Alex Jones over
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here.
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All at the same time making people who otherwise would be like, hey, racism is bad, still vote
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for racist policies by saying team sports, you know?
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Well, we can't vote for Democrat, period, no matter what happens.
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Or globalist.
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So I'm not racist personally, but I am going to vote for every possible candidate that
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I can find who will promote racist policies, even if they're not saying the quiet part
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loud, because they're not Stephen King, who is the one who's Steve King, who is the one
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saying the quiet part loud.
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It's fucking disgusting how well they do their job and how shittily people.
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God, this is why we lose, Dan.
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So in that clip, I thought that was very interesting.
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You know, you see that those sort of dynamics in play and what appears to be at least on
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some level an awareness of that being what they're doing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But in this next clip, Alex takes this independence pledge or whatever that Stuart Rhodes is doing,
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which, again, 100 percent is just we're not going to take your guns, which is the oath
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keeper's initial pledge to begin with.
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Yeah.
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And he's just saying also, in addition to that, if you vote to take away our guns, we will
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vote you out of office, which again is sort of implied by their entire existence.
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I don't know.
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Like, I guess that's better than your pledge saying we'll kill you.
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Right.
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It's a media blitz kind of thing, I think, probably just trying to get some attention.
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But Alex piggybacks that and is using it to get himself attention.
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And you'll see that in this next clip.
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Because I want to pledge with you, I want to say here on air, I think I'm gonna make
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a video about this, that I pledge to never turn in my lawful legal firearms, that this
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is all a hoax.
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And I pledge to expose the illegitimate occupational government we have that openly is becoming
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a dictatorship.
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And I pledge my my name, my treasure, my honor, my family to it.
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You know, I've pledged to call for secession to reconstitute the republic.
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And that got a lot of national attention because I knew this was coming.
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Seems like seems like you like national attention.
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It almost seems like Alex is trying to one up him.
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Come on.
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He's kind of trying to one up Stuart.
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Yeah, he still has to do that petty thing of his like, well, I've made pledges before
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and that got a lot of national attention.
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I don't have a seed.
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Yeah, I mean, your your pledge is great.
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But I mean, I know I love your pledge.
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And I my life, my treasure, my family on the line.
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What have you done, Stuart?
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I mean, he's not saying that, but he's kind of saying he's kind of saying that.
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So when it comes to that radicalization question, though, the idea of like trying to use this
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to get rid of the milquetoast people, and what have you, that, you know, makes sense.
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Kind of makes sense why you would do that in their world.
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But in his next clip, it becomes very scary.
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Because Stuart Rhodes starts talking about these specific people he wants to be on his
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radicalized team.
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This is the great victory we have in the Internet.
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The freedom of speech on the Internet and on radio is what's turning the tide and the
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powers of being know that and is turning the tide in the ranks.
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That would just encourage people to really focus the liberty movement is a focus on the
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guys with the guns.
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It is so incredibly important.
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You might not get a chance to vote for Rand Paul in 2016.
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Stop looking only at politics.
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Focus on the guys with the guns.
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I just urge you.
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I don't care if you do it through Oath Keepers or how you do it.
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Hand out DVDs, turn them on to your radio show, whatever it takes.
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Wake them up.
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If you want to help us, that's what we're trying to do.
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Pass.
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No, this is about the guys with the guns.
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God, I kind of do want to focus on the guys with the guns, though.
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And I'll tell you why.
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Because they have a lot of guns.
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Right.
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And that is, hey.
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Not for nothing.
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Responsible gun owners.
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Cool.
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There have been in the group, there were some really interesting threads by responsible
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gun owners.
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At the same time, I keep trying to tell you at the same time, if you have a lot of guns,
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that's something that should be paid attention to because there are a lot of guns there.
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Anytime there's a lot of guns anywhere.
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I think it's possible for a person to pay attention to that themselves.
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Like, I think if you recognize I have a lot of guns that is kind of, you know, that's
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something that's a little bit outside of the norm.
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And you keep track of that yourself.
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Go to therapy or whatever.
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Check in on it.
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And you find you find the like, it's all right.
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I just like guns.
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I'm safe and responsible about it.
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That is enough.
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Yeah, that's great.
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Yeah.
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Keep doing that.
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I don't know.
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No, I think that when you say we want the people with the guns and your people like
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Stuart Rhodes and Alex Jones, you want them for bad reasons.
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I would say I'd like the people with guns, but not to do anything I want them to do.
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I want them to calm down.
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Like the heart, the battle for the hearts and minds of these hypothetical people with
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guns is like, they're like, get ready.
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The end is coming.
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We will need to fight.
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Right.
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That's their angle.
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My angle is cool it.
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That may be why we're struggling.
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That may be why we're struggling to get the, because our message is like, wait for the
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information.
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Right.
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Act on reality.
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Right.
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That is not as much fun as they're coming for you.
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Get down.
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Totally.
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It's not as fun to wait as it must be to get tons of retweets and stuff speculating about
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what Jussie Smollett did or didn't do.
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It's not as fun to hang in the back and wait for information to come out and grieve along
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with America as it is.
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It's much more fun to say this shit was fake.
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Yep.
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And make more money off it.
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Like that's, that's the, like none of the stuff that is the right thing to do in these
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situations feels good.
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Yeah.
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Or is the most fun.
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Yeah.
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But as a person, you're morally obligated to do those things, especially when you have
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as huge a platform as Alex, because to do otherwise is to do harm to people.
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Right.
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That's such a reminder and it never fails to be important to remember.
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The reason that this is so difficult is because we're just big dumb apes.
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Right.
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So in this next clip, Stuart Rhodes and Alex have been talking about the ways that we can
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get these people with guns to our side.
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And one of the ways that Stuart's talking about is like, just find some land outside
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like a barracks and put up a billboard.
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They can't stop you.
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Like, and then everybody, all the soldiers that are there will see the like Infowars
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billboard or whatever.
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And then they're in.
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Wow.
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That's the most terrifying evil strategy I can think of.
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Right.
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And then Alex doubles down on it.
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Exactly.
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Folks, a few thousand bucks, huge billboard outside the base, savage the enemy, engage
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them.
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They are attacking us with dead children right now saying we did it.
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Okay.
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You got to get back with the truth and hammer them hard or they're going to win.
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They are to use military terminology because that's what this is.
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We are being overrun right now.
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Okay.
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We have been winning the hearts and minds with the enemy.
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The empire has just struck back.
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That is terrible.
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Alex is being attacked by dead kids or with dead kids.
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This garbage is hot garbage.
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They, they just, I, and I get it because they've kept winning for such a long time by being
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evil and stupid.
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Yeah, but they really don't understand what a double-edged sword is, do they?
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Because if your, if your angle is what we need to do is radicalize the military with
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right-wing pro-gun propaganda in order to make sure that if something does go down,
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we have the military on our side who will then presumably go to the liberal cucks homes
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and take their, whatever the equivalent of guns.
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He's talking about like, you know, he has that caller who's like, I'm in globalist houses.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And he's telling them like, don't, don't kill the police.
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Go and find the globalist.
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So yeah, presumably what he's talking about is like, we get them on our side and they
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know to go kill Soros or whatever.
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And it's like, you realize when you make that a norm, then that is okay to be used against
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you.
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Like when McConnell is like, let's get rid of the filibuster for all that stuff.
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Okay.
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You realize though, that later on that can be done to you.
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You're fucking up by doing this because by and large, as, as history has progressed,
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progression has happened.
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So no matter how much you want to try and break the system to fuck up that progression,
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all that that's really doing is ensuring your own fucking downfall later on as the, as the
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pendulum swings.
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So like, like we, like you talked about the last time we talked about the pendulum, if
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you really slam it as hard as you can, maybe it doesn't swing back, but that's not how
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this fucking works, man.
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Like this is, this is a bad idea.
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A dictatorship.
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That's the version of the pendulum getting stuck in the other wall.
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That's what they're ostensibly fighting against.
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And it's so fucking obvious.
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It's not.
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It's so obvious that they're not fighting against that.
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No, totally, totally.
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It's obvious if you start looking at, and especially it's probably the gift of having
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time, you know, being in 2019 and looking back at this stuff and recognizing how quickly
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Alex flipped on so many of his long held positions.
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Once he knew he was safe from whatever tyranny may be encroaching, right?
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That sort of thing.
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You start to look back on this stuff and you see how flimsy and superficial it is.
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You see how it's not based in anything.
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It's mostly distraction tricks.
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It's mostly sleight of hand nonsense.
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It was like, look at this headline, look at this headline.
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They want to kill you by my products.
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Even back here, he's not selling products necessarily, but he's still selling subscriptions
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to like Prison Planet TV and stuff.
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So yeah, I mean, there is that, but like behind all of it, the flimsiness of the narratives,
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the way that time has shown that his anger towards tyranny and authoritarianism doesn't
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mean anything.
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It makes you start to realize that all of this stuff is just like, we have to make sure
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they don't do it.
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Exactly.
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We have to make sure they don't do it.
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And if in the process we end up doing it, well, that'll be what happens and that'll
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be greater freedom.
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Yeah.
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Once we crossed that line, either we go forward into fascism or we pull back.
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And since we're lunatics, we will never, ever, ever pull back.
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So in this next clip, Alex gives a rousing speech about how ideals, they're not as mortal
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as the flesh.
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Sure.
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He gets pretty into it.
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He gets pretty into it.
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And of course, the only ideal that he's talking about is I get to keep my guns.
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Everybody gets guns.
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Right.
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But the way this plays out and what he gets to at the end is such a damning indictment
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of who he is as a person.
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And stop being cowards.
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Oh, they may put me on a list.
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They may come get me.
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Folks, if you give into that fear, it's over.
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I'm all in.
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I'm with Stuart Rhodes.
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I will never submit to the New World Order.
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I will never go along with them.
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I stand against them no matter what happens.
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And they can kill us individually.
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They can politically destroy us.
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They can assassinate our character.
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But it's still a fraud.
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God knows who you really are.
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And they can kill your body, but they can't kill your soul and they can't kill your ideas
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like V says after they just spread him with bullets.
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And he's got the bad guy, the dictator.
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He's got him right there.
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And he says, flesh and blood can die, but ideas, ideas are bulletproof.
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And that's when you really start living is when you step across from the fear and step
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into an idea.
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Here's my problem.
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If Alex Jones had read the things that he professes to have read, he would have such
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a better reference for that kind of an idea than V for Vendetta.
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No, come on.
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V for Vendetta, that's all you needed to know.
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There are a hundred references you could make very easily about the idea of ideas being
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immortal and the flesh being weak and that sort of thing.
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Your ideas live on past you.
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Oh, yeah.
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Like any of them are greater than V for Vendetta.
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Well, I'm not mad about the idea of using-
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Written by douchebag Alan Moore.
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Who Alex thinks is a Satanist.
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Who's Alex thinks, yeah.
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I'm not saying that it's bad to cite V for Vendetta or anything like that.
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You can make whatever movie reference you want.
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But I just start to realize that like Alex has no literary references.
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He claims he's read all these books and he has such a dearth of knowledge about these
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sorts of things.
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And every single time he brings up a philosophical concept or some sort of an idea as opposed
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to citing a book, citing a philosopher, anything like that.
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He's like, it's like V said.
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I don't understand.
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Good books are usually harder to read.
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But he says he's read them is my point.
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Right.
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But they're also harder to say then.
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Like, I mean, not necessarily.
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But the point being-
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If you're good at distilling information down to like an accessible chunk, which I think
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Alex is to a certain extent, he makes complicated subjects very easy to understand.
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He does it poorly.
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Yeah, but he's not going to quote Brothers Karamazov or anything like that.
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Because he can't.
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He could.
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He could lie about it.
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His listeners haven't read it either.
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That's true.
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That's a good point.
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Any of these things.
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He could just do that.
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It's just like one of the Brothers Karamazov said.
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I wonder-
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Watch out for bears.
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I wonder about it if it is just a thing where it's like he knows that his audience is borderline
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illiterate as well.
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That's fair.
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And so you appeal to them on the ground that they probably have seen V for Vendetta.
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Yeah, that's a good point.
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That's actually a good idea.
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I mean, if it's that, then I understand.
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But at the same time, I've almost, I would say I pretty much have never heard him like
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accurately cite a book.
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It always goes to movies.
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Like it's always some sort of pop culture reference.
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Has he referenced, has he referenced Dune?
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You have.
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Yeah, he has.
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That's the benchmark for high literature.
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He definitely has.
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I doubt he's got any James Joyce quotes in his back pocket.
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I'll say that right now.
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He does know the name though.
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I've heard him mention Joyce before, but Alex takes some calls and he's still got Stuart
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Rhodes on the phone, but the two of them take some calls and he gets this call from a guy
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who's frustrated by the idea of like, I call the like Senator's office and I leave him
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a message about, you know, like this is bullshit.
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We need you to be weirder or whatever.
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Right, right, right.
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Whatever the message one of Alex's listeners would give a Congress person.
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Of course.
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And so he's frustrated by that.
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Kill the weak.
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Yeah.
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And then Alex has a interesting suggestion about what he should do with that frustration.
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And the aides are like, well, I'll pass the comments on to him.
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I mean, it's just amazing.
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Well, listen, calling him isn't bad.
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It's better to write him a letter.
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It's also better to go when they go to these public speaking events like at the grocery
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store of the church to go and call them out.
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Remember at the original Ron Paul tea parties for the Republicans took him over and yelled
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at them, people went and shouted Republicans and Democrats down.
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That's what we need.
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That's what we need.
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Shout people.
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Flash forward to Trump being in office and Alex complain.
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How dare you not even smile and clap?
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How dare you complain about disrespect the system?
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Very idea of people doing exactly what he says they need to do.
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How dare you not give blind fealty to somebody lying to your face?
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But at the same time, a lot of the times that he was complaining about stuff in the Trump
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era was when I don't know, some people went and bullhorned Tucker Carlson's house.
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How dare you?
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Or they went and yelled at Sarah Huckabee Sanders while she was eating.
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Alex is saying that we need to bullhorn people at speeches or something like that.
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So you could be reasonably like, OK, well, maybe it's a thing about decorum and people's
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private space.
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Unfortunately, Alex says this.
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Now, we need to go and bullhorn congressmen's houses.
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We need to bullhorn their events.
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We need to put private investigators on them because they're all committing crimes.
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Any gun grabber out there is a mafia trash.
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We need to go put private investigators on people.
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That's targeted harassment.
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Is that even legal?
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I'm not sure it is.
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Can you can you hire a private investigator to follow your congressman around?
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I don't know what the line is there.
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I really should have looked into it.
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That in terms of legality.
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Could we do that?
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I don't think I'd be comfortable with it.
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I feel like we can't.
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But at the same time, if we could, I really think it wouldn't be a bad idea to hire a
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private investigator on Mitch McConnell.
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Oh, I thought you meant on Alex.
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I'm not sure what the stance is on this.
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I'm reticent to comment.
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That's a good question.
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But I will say from my heart, you know, I would say don't do it because it invades people's
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private space.
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Inevitably, you're going to end up finding stuff that has nothing to do with whatever
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you're curious in.
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Right.
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That's a that's a violation of people that is unnecessary.
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Like whatever problems you have about Mitch McConnell, for instance.
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Should stay in the political realm or whatever.
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Like what if you put a P.I. on him and you find out he's cheating on his wife?
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The fuck?
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What do you do with that information?
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Tell people.
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Why?
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Why not?
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Fuck that guy.
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That's vindictive of you.
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That's wrong.
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Yeah, I'm fine with that.
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OK, if you want to live in that space.
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Cool.
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I don't want to live in that space.
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I'm not going to do it.
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I understand.
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I don't.
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But you would hypothetically do it.
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I hypothetically would.
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I would not want to know those sorts of things.
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The main reason I wouldn't do it is because I couldn't afford it.
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If you could find a P.I. to just look into like pro bono financial connections or something
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like that, then that's more like a like a researcher.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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I find like that would be OK.
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Or like what an attorney general should be doing.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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That sort of thing I think is OK.
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But the idea of like following someone around or something like that, it's just that to
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me is like that's that's pretty gross.
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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On the other hand, like with...
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All you're doing is farming out stocking to a professional, basically.
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Well, yeah, but you leave it up to the professionals because they're going to do a better job of
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it.
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Right.
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They're good at stocking.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Not comfortable with it.
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OK.
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So in this next clip, Alex is reading an article about gun grabbers.
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It's not important.
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It has nothing to do with anything real.
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But Alex says that he has a Freudian slip in this in this clip, a Freudian clip that
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he nice.
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He says something that he's so fucking accurate and he doesn't even realize it.
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This blew my mind.
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The gun rights gang insists that it's not about guns.
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It's about not letting crazy people have guns.
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I agree, and I'd like to propose that crazy should be defined to include anyone who fetishizes
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guns.
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Now, we fetishize tyrants.
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Want to take this over?
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We're obsessed with knowing the history of it.
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He fetishizes tyrants.
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Yeah.
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No shit you do.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You're not wrong.
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I don't think he knows what the word means, but at the same time, he's expressing the
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truth.
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Yeah.
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We do fetishize tyrants.
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What does he think he's saying?
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He thinks it means like we're enthusiastic against the tyrants.
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Really?
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That's what I think he's trying to express.
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But no, in reality, you fetishize tyrants.
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Yeah, he's the one who said that Stalin was a complete badass.
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Total stud.
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Yeah.
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Total stud.
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Wow.
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So in this episode, we've seen a lot of like just sort of standard Alex Jones.
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There's a lot of it that we're not listening to necessarily that I was listening to him
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like this could have been 2009.
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Like it's pretty like there's a lot of standard operating Alex Jones, which is interesting
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because the other days haven't really been as like regular.
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And so now to see him kind of be in a place where he's comfortable enough now because
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Rob Dues made that special report.
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Right.
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We can hang our hat on that.
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Sandy Hook, done.
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Checkmark.
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Yeah, he kind of wants to slip out of it.
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He does just his gun defense narratives.
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And that seems to be much more comfortable territory for him.
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At the same time, that solidifying of the government did this, they did it.
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This is the government doing it in order to then launch the op to take our guns and stuff.
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That is bad.
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In the beginning of the episode, Alex or not the beginning is towards the middle.
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Alex gets a call from a guy who's like, did you read the article in Veterans Today about
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how Sandy Hook was retribution on behalf of Israel for something or other?
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And Alex shoots him down.
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Alex, like this is a guy suggesting a conspiracy that Israel did Sandy Hook.
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And Alex is like, look, I don't know who they have a general quoted in the article.
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Did they name him?
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And the guy's like, no, it's like, look, this is no good.
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Like I and I was like, holy shit, Alex, what are you doing?
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What are you doing?
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What are you doing?
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What are you doing? So Alex talks for another minute or so.
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And then he's like, look, Veterans Today has a great name and it's great.
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It's a great URL.
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You know, like he's jealous of the URL.
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No, that's fair.
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Veterans Today has a great name.
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And then he gets into talking about how they had like said he was an asshole in the past.
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There it is.
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Exactly.
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Petty.
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And so I was like, this doesn't really work for him because in other contexts he probably
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would have been like, I'm excited to hear this.
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Yeah, tell me about it.
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No, I don't. It's not like I want to blame Israel or me speaking as him.
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Like it's like he wants to blame Israel, but it would have been interesting.
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But now you bring in the Veterans Today.
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If you hadn't said Veterans Today, he would have been like, fuck yeah.
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That takes him into the like, fuck them part of his brain.
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Right.
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There has not been a ton of what you would call conspiracy shit about this.
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That's a good point.
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Other than his broader, the government did it.
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There's not a ton of specifics.
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There's that second shooter stuff.
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Right.
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But that's kind of like, you know, that's misreporting that happened early on.
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You don't want to engage with how reporting works.
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Yeah.
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We're not trying to understand where it comes from.
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Or we're not at like a towers don't fall like that unless there's charged explosives at
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the right exact point.
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And we can prove that this is how they fell and all that shit.
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We're not there yet.
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We're just at like, this is a this is bullshit.
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Yeah.
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Government did it.
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Yeah.
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And then so here at the end of this episode, we find the clip where everything changes.
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So here's where this becomes untenable.
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And this is where this days later is taking the turn that I even predicted would come
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much later.
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The only reason you would bring up something like that is if you're going to suggest that
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these people aren't real.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Why?
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This is the day after he took that call from the guy who knew Victoria Soto, the teacher
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who died.
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And Alex had put up a picture of her.
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He's reporting on air talking about this video of the father.
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I believe his name is Robbie Parker, who was laughing nervously before giving a press speech.
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And we've talked about this in times past.
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Like the idea of how people grieve is and how you respond to nervous situations is it's
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ridiculous to make a claim like he was laughing before that interview.
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That means he's faking this.
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Most people don't have to give press conferences ever.
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Most people aren't good at public speaking.
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You and I both have years of experience doing stand up.
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And so our response would be very different than Johnny come lately off the street or
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whatever.
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If we were pulled in front of a camera, we wouldn't have as much...
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Mr. Talks out both sides of his face.
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Right.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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We would have much less discomfort with speaking in front of cameras.
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Now, granted, if we were talking about a situation where we had lost loved ones or something
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like that, maybe we would be right in the same boat.
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How the fuck could you even put yourself in that space to imagine what a supposedly normal
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reaction would be?
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Exactly.
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I was bringing our stage preparation and internal intrinsic training in it to bring another
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variable to it.
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Even taking that aside, who knows how we would respond to that.
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Exactly.
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And now you just consider this as a person who didn't expect any of this to be in his
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life mere days prior.
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The only reason you would ever cover this story or bring it up with any suspicion is
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if you're intending to introduce the idea that his kid didn't die and he is an actor.
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That is the only fucking reason to do this.
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There is no reason to cast suspicion on the family if you believe that people died there.
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And I need to make this very strongly, this point, this doesn't match with the narrative
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that he's been building for the previous days.
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Right.
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This doesn't match with anything that Larry Pratt, Stuart Rhodes, that weirdo who loves
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guns, his friend Matt Williams, the senator or the congressman who was on the other day,
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any of his guests.
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None of these people have suggested in any way that this stuff is fake.
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Alex is doing this on his own.
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He's bringing up this story of the idea that this father is laughing and reading off cue
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cards on his own.
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And it is what, five days later.
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Yeah.
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Five days later, he is at least speculating that they're fake, that they're actors.
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And to your earlier point, what is saying we need to hire private investigators for
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these people?
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What are you going to find?
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Other than professional harassment.
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Well, what if you're a freelance private investigator?
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Right.
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Or if you're a listener who can't afford a fucking private investigator, well, now you're
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a private investigator.
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It's time for you to do some sleuthing and fucking harassing them.
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All right.
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And you're doing it for the greater good because what do you know what you're going to find?
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Right.
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You go and you're trailing this guy with your binoculars, you know, you peep in his window.
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You see that his kid's still alive.
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Bada bing, bada boom.
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Right.
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Closed case.
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Closed case.
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Like, why would you want to investigate this if your suspicion wasn't that they were lying
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and were fake?
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Because the only end result, if you think it's real or are presenting the public-facing
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appearance that you believe it's real, so we get into that mess a whole bunch.
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We know that he knows it's real, but we keep saying, like, he thinks it's fake.
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Yeah.
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But that's just what his narrative is.
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Right.
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When we say we think he thinks it's fake, it's what he's telling his audience.
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Yeah.
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He knows it's real and he has from day fucking one.
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Yep.
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But if you think...
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If you want to present the idea.
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Then you have to think that there's a...
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It's just so fucking baffling to me.
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Yeah.
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I don't understand why anybody would do this.
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Even him.
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He's ruined his defensible position by covering this.
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Um, we sow the seeds of our own downfall from the very beginning, I guess?
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Perhaps.
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I don't know.
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I don't know how poetic it is to...
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Like, from the jump, if your goal is to cast aspersions on literally everything, sooner
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or later, you're gonna get yourself into fucking trouble.
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If I were Alex Jones in this position and someone brought me this, like, let's say it's
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Rob Do, because he's already in the hopper.
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Like, if it were...
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Hi, Dan.
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Hey, Rob.
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I'm Rob Do.
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And let's say Rob brings me this video that everyone's suspicious about on the internet
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of like, oh, look at him, he's laughing before the interview.
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If you bring that to me and I'm Alex Jones and I've already worked for a couple days
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to build the, it's all about taking our guns, the globalists came in and they had commando
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teams and killed the kids or whatever, and you are still like totally everyone died,
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that's the rock we're standing on or whatever, I would be like, huh, let's not talk about
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that.
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I'd be like, okay, I see how that would be a natural reaction someone might have to immense
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stress.
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Right.
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Let's punt on this one, because we don't need it.
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Right.
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It just comes down over and over again to you don't need to do this.
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No, he doesn't.
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I'm so frustrated.
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I've never felt this way about Alex, like listening to him, like just a stop, stop.
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You can do all you need to do without any of this.
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I screamed about this on the last episode and I feel it's so much more passionately
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now.
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This is all unnecessary.
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Right.
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But it is impossible for him not to.
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Probably.
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That's that's the thing that is a fun push pull there is that even on some level, I'm
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sure he knows that he doesn't need to do this.
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He's already got his gun defense narrative going on, but somebody Icarus, somebody eggs
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him on, you know, somebody is like, hey, what about this?
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And he's like, I'll look into it or like, hey, what about this?
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And he's like, ah, that sounds right.
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And hey, what about look?
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Well, guess what?
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I'll go even fucking further than you.
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I've had three people call me telling me to look into this.
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Well, guess who's the master of looking into shit?
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Me.
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It's all fake.
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I look into things.
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Well, he didn't say anything about him being an actor in that last clip.
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He did insinuate it.
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Right.
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So now here's how he ends the show.
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We're going to play a clip from CNN press conference with Robbie Parker and people that
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have seen this video for radio.
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It doesn't really translate.
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We're putting it up at info wars.com right now.
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Aaron Dykes is posting it.
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I had this hours ago.
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I've just been so busy.
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I haven't got to it yet.
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We're going to play it on prison planet on TV.
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And I've seen this before and he's laughing.
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It looks really excited.
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And then says, do I read off the card?
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And then he walks up like he's an actor and then breaks down on camera.
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I mean, it's like, oh, I read this card.
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Okay.
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I mean, it's like, whoa, whoa.
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And maybe under the stress, that's just what happened.
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And then maybe being in front of the camera, maybe it's, I mean, folks, we got to get private
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investigators up the Sandy hook right now.
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Cause I'm telling you this, this stinks to highest heaven.
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I hate that so much because it shows such an awareness of what the reality is within
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the creating suspicion and demonizing a grieving father.
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Maybe that's just how people react to stress.
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You know, God damn well, that's the answer.
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Yep.
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He knows exactly what the truth is.
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He said the word, he came up like an actor and then did his stupid fucking character
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work about like, ha ha ha.
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Like as if to mock whatever reaction he was having.
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And then at the same breath comes in with a, I don't know, maybe that's how people
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responded to highest stress situations, but we need private investigators down there.
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This is fucking garbage.
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I didn't expect, I'm pissed a little bit.
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I didn't expect it would come this fast.
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That's crazy to me.
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Yeah.
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I really thought we had the fucking couple weeks.
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Yeah.
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Our investigation might be over.
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It's not over.
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It's not over yet.
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We did four episodes.
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We thought it would be at least a while before he decided that we thought there would be
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some emotional distance between when he goes from this is real and it's affecting me.
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Maybe the government did it, but it is still children who died to, it's all fake.
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Even the people who died, the parents, they're all actors, all of this shit.
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But he's not saying that yet.
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He's just deeply insinuating.
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Yeah.
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It happened on Friday.
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That it cannot be real.
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Wednesday.
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That can't be real.
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It's nuts.
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This is crazy to me.
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How, how did it happen that fast?
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Yeah, but it makes perfect sense.
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No, totally.
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It makes perfect sense.
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How else would we have a gun culture so entrenched in this fucking country that after a mass,
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after a tragedy that can't even, then I still can't even really fucking comprehend.
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Right.
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How, how is it possible that no action was taken after that?
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Especially considering we know that in the UK, one mass shooting happened.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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One school.
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I, I'm sorry.
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I'm sorry.
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One school shooting happened and they went fucking, Hey, this got to stop.
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The only way it makes sense for our culture to have no legislative reaction to this is
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if people like Alex can turn that corner in such a short period of time to unify their
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message of nothing can be fucking done ever.
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Nothing can be done about this because if it took him three weeks, maybe people would
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have finally gotten the goddamn picture in three weeks.
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But if it takes you a day or two to say that it's all fake.
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That's what I was talking about at the beginning of this episode.
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Yeah, you're absolutely right.
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That the propagandists weapon and their, their advantage over decent people is weaponizing
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the unknown.
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Like the idea of we don't know all the facts.
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I mean, you can get all, if you're a decent person, you can watch that video of this father
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and not come away with it with any confusion or suspicion or anything like that.
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But a lot of these other things, the, the, the, the anomalies that he's already starting
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to bring up of his own accord, things like the second shooter ideas and stuff like that.
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He weaponizes the idea that we don't all have the reporting on it.
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We don't have the information.
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And it just, it bums me out to, to such an extent that I don't, I can't prove this, but
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I don't understand how this isn't a financial motive for him.
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Like, I don't, I don't understand someone doing this who isn't getting paid a lot.
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Like, I don't, I know that I can't back that up and I don't like to speculate about stuff,
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but like, there's only two ways that this makes sense.
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One is that his show makes him so much fucking money.
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What, and he's not even selling the supplements at this point.
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He's just selling like his magazine that, I mean, I have copies of it thanks to Keegan.
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Got us some of those copies and they're terrible.
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I don't know who would be buying those.
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I can't imagine them being super expensive either.
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And then subscriptions to his website.
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I could see some revenue flow from that, but the, like the amount of money that it would
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require to make someone behave like this so quick, it just, it screams to me that someone's
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gotta be in his ear.
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Even back then, someone has to be motivating this.
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See, I, I'm actually going to go the complete opposite direction.
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There is no way that a reasonable human being could get enough money to make this change
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that quick.
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I recognize, and I totally understand your bafflement at this behavior.
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At the same time, I'm baffled that people kill eight people in Ethup.
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You know, like I'm baffled that the Zodiac killer was a thing.
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But this is not the, the reasonable human financial interest.
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This is a fucking serial killer.
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Of course you can't understand.
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So high functioning in other avenues and other areas.
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So are like, so are like all the CEOs.
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Sure.
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They're all fucking psychopaths.
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Not all of them.
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That's painting with a massive broad brush.
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I don't disagree.
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There's, you know, there's a high incidence of that in those, those sorts of fields.
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But to me, this, I just, I just don't understand it.
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Even if you're a sociopath.
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Because you don't like, like what I keep saying, you don't need it.
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It's not necessary for like, if he's a psychopath and what he cares about is defending his guns
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and stuff like that.
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The idea that the families are actors and that sort of shit doesn't help.
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It doesn't do anything more for him than the government came in and killed these kids.
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In fact, the government came in and killed these kids is probably better for him than
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the, these people are actors.
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Right.
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But for the serial killers, another aspect of that is always wanting to be the smartest
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person, wanting to outsmart people, wanting to do it in public.
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There's a reason, like the Zodiac killer didn't need to send fucking letters, you know?
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Like that didn't help his cause.
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Yeah.
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You know, the Unabomber didn't need to send those letters.
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That's what got him caught.
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He could have just bombed people.
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Nobody had any idea about that guy.
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Right.
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The only difference is that this didn't end Alex's life or career or anything like that.
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It didn't bring any actual consequences.
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So it's not quite like the, the things that got serial killers caught.
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The Golden State killer didn't, you know, like that wasn't until recently.
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Yeah, fine.
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I don't know.
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I'm just saying, this dude is a fucking serial killer.
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I don't disagree with that assessment in terms of like his mental state and how far gone
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he is, but I still, I still think there's, there's gotta be some undisclosed something.
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I don't know what it is.
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It could be financial.
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I think it has to be, like from where I'm standing and where, like what I know about
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following Alex and how he, he operates.
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He operates, it really feels like there has to be some deep financial motivation in turning
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this weird.
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Right.
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But then at the same time, he also is beholden to a lot of really bad sources.
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So there are people like the Steve Pachanics and shit like that of the world who are in
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his ear and there could be some like really nefarious influence that hasn't reared their
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head yet.
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We don't know who, who or what is going on that is motivating this.
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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I don't know.
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I think it's weird because it's unacceptable because to me that smacks of a certain kind
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of hope, which is a weird way of putting it.
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But you want an explanation?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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In, in the way that the way that I see your reaction, it's like, it has to be something
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more than this guy is just a serial killer because at the very least I could understand
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this guy if it was money.
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If you, because you and I would never fucking do something like this, no matter what the
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price tag, but we can understand somebody who would, we recognize that those people
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exist for a price.
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They'll do that.
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But the, the only problem that I have with that is all the times that we've seen Alex
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show restraint, you know, and those sorts of things.
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Yeah, that's true.
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And even in that last clip, him giving the awareness of like, maybe that's just how people
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respond.
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Yeah.
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Like that, that is not what you'd expect out of a serial killer-y mentality.
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Right.
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It would be going full, uh, full bore or, uh.
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Maybe he's just a bad serial killer.
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Possibly.
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I don't know.
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I don't know.
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Maybe he's just bad at the one thing he's good at.
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And I think that this conversation here that we're having is the reason why this must
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continue, this investigation.
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Like it's not like, I'm not nearly done trying to find context clues from this stuff just
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because five days after fucking Sandy Hook, he's already taking dumb ass pieces of the
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conspiracy, uh, stuff that's being thrown around and using it on his show to insinuate
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that the victims weren't really victims.
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So how long did that even take to penetrate the, was that like an immediate click online?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I mean, I think that interview probably was the night before, if I recall correctly.
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Yeah.
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And yeah, I mean like places like Reddit and conspiracy boards were, you know, they were,
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they were hopping.
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It was a different time for conspiracy than it is nowadays.
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Like I think the, like we've talked about this a bit.
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I think Alex has been playing catch up with the conspiracy world, um, in present day with
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him creating fake Zach, uh, his, uh, his alternative to QAnon.
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Yeah.
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Um, and, and all that stuff.
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Whereas back then Alex was, was kind of like a big, much bigger deal.
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He was on the Vanguard.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:14.140)
And I don't feel like him covering this is like him feeling pressure from the conspiracy
Unknown Speaker (02:10:20.539)
world to cover it.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:21.739)
If only because he had other callers who were speculating about other conspiracy stuff.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:26.859)
Even, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:28.619)
You know, so it, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:31.420)
I agree with you.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:32.539)
I think your assessment of me wanting an explanation that probably is impossible to ever figure
Unknown Speaker (02:10:36.779)
out, I think that's fair.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:38.779)
I'm still not going to not, I'm not going to stop looking.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:42.300)
I didn't ask you to stop.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:43.579)
I understand.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:44.140)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:44.619)
I'm just, I'm, I'm putting a little button.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:47.180)
I know.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:47.579)
I love you.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:47.979)
I'm not, I love to, I'm not going to stop looking for context clues that are possible
Unknown Speaker (02:10:53.180)
because mine ears, uh, here, uh, uh, ch chings.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:58.060)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:58.859)
And I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (02:10:59.659)
We'll see.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:00.300)
We'll figure it out.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:02.380)
But until we figure it out, I'm bummed out as hell, man.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:05.739)
It shouldn't have taken this little time.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:07.500)
Yeah, usually every other one of our investigations has been like, wow, we're six months into
Unknown Speaker (02:11:17.180)
this.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:17.340)
And this is a big investigation too, in terms of like life-changing events for him.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:21.579)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:22.060)
And it took, uh, 20 seconds for him to speculate that it was fake or whatever, and then find
Unknown Speaker (02:11:27.899)
his bearings and still say that it's real.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:30.619)
And, uh, these people were killed and I believe the official story of it.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:34.619)
And it's so sad to these, all of these folks.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:37.819)
And then now five days after he's already comfortable speculating, uh, that people were
Unknown Speaker (02:11:44.859)
actors, he used the word actor, even in that, in that last clip.
Unknown Speaker (02:11:48.779)
I can't, I can't, it's like, if I were to put myself in that kind of head space of,
Unknown Speaker (02:11:56.140)
and I I'll never, uh, but, but like the idea of even for, even for us.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:03.180)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:04.060)
For some reason, because of this show, somebody kills somebody in my family.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:08.779)
Somebody kills him and they do like an interview with me.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:13.260)
I, my reaction would almost certainly be like a weird laugh cry.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:20.699)
Just like, I can't believe this is happening.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:22.859)
This is a silly storybook joke.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:25.420)
I'm crying.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:26.619)
I don't fucking understand anything that's going on right now.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:30.380)
So if you wanted to call that a con, if you wanted to use that video as like a proof that
Unknown Speaker (02:12:35.020)
nobody in my family died, you would almost certainly have all kinds of shit.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:38.859)
Like there's no way that I could have any control over my reaction.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:45.739)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:46.300)
That's bananas.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:47.500)
That's bananas.
Unknown Speaker (02:12:48.380)
And I imagine there's a hundred other, uh, press conferences of less publicized events
Unknown Speaker (02:12:54.380)
that you could find where people are, you know, awkwardly or uncomfortably goofing off
Unknown Speaker (02:12:59.979)
and then get well, so many message whenever the person starts interviewing them.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:04.859)
And so many murder trials have those eye witness accounts that are, uh, you know, later on
Unknown Speaker (02:13:11.340)
found to be fucking stupid where they're like, well, the person wasn't acting affected by
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it.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:16.060)
So they probably killed him.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:17.420)
And you're like, you don't fucking know.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:19.899)
And I mean, that even came up when we were covering the Anders Breivik episode, the second
Unknown Speaker (02:13:25.500)
shooter alleged alleged second shooter was a kid who was a victim on Utolia Island who
Unknown Speaker (02:13:31.739)
people thought didn't respond, uh, as a way that traumatized, that sort of thing.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:37.100)
Traumatized enough is the best way to, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:39.420)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:39.899)
So I mean, yeah, that mentality is, is there's a lot of it and it's bad.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:44.619)
Anyway, I hate this.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:46.300)
I hate it too.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:46.859)
But still better than talking about Alex on the present day.
Unknown Speaker (02:13:49.979)
I have to stress that as much as this is a real big bummer and not pleasant, uh, I would
Unknown Speaker (02:13:56.859)
do this a hundred times before I talk about whatever he, whatever, hey, he wants to make
Unknown Speaker (02:14:01.979)
out of, uh, hate crimes.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:04.699)
I don't want to do that.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:05.899)
Nope.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:06.300)
And I don't think our audience really wants us to do that either.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:09.100)
And if they do, sorry.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:12.859)
But we have a website.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:14.140)
We do have a website, Dan.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:15.659)
We do.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:16.140)
It's a knowledgefight.com.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:17.979)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:18.140)
We're on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:18.939)
We are on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:20.140)
Our handle is at knowledge underscore fight.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:22.300)
Correct.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:22.699)
We're on Facebook.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:23.899)
We even have a Facebook group called go home and tell your mother you're brilliant.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:26.859)
That's right.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:29.340)
Oh, iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:31.180)
We are on iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:31.979)
Yeah, that's right.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:32.779)
You could download, subscribe, leave a review, et cetera.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:36.619)
People still, people still leaving reviews.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:38.699)
It's very kind of you.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:39.739)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:40.220)
Um, I would say that of this episode, uh, the imaginary second shooters at Sandy Hook
Unknown Speaker (02:14:46.220)
did not kill anybody.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:47.260)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:47.819)
I can say that because they don't exist.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:49.659)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:49.979)
But there's one guy who technically probably has killed a guy.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:53.260)
That's true.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:53.899)
And, uh, his name is Alex Jones.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:56.220)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:57.180)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (02:14:57.659)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:00.220)
Hello, Alex.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:00.939)
I'm a first time caller.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:01.899)
I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:02.699)
I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (02:15:03.500)
I love you.
