Transcript/267: December 16, 2012

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Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.
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Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.
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I love you.
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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan.
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I'm Jordan.
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We're a couple dudes. I like to sit around,
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drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
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Oh, indeed we are, Dan.
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Jordan.
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Dan!
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Jordan.
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What was the longest you've had to go without hot water?
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I don't know. I can't imagine. It's been long. I mean, I've been in the woods for a couple
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days and stuff like that, like camping and stuff like that. But even those times, I think,
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you know, you could go a ways away and find a shower or hut or something like that.
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Right, right, right, right.
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Somewhere.
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Yeah, they usually have those in a campsite.
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I'm not talking about going to a KOA. I mean, like camping in the wood woods.
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Oh, in the wood woods?
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Yeah, but I still think maybe a day. Maybe? I don't know.
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I've never camped in the woods.
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No?
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No.
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You gotta do it.
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I don't think so.
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Gotta do it.
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No, it's scary out there.
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So fun.
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KOA.
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It's like living in a hotel, but you bring your own room.
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That's garbage. One time, so every year for the summer, my parents and I and my brother,
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we would drive across country to visit our relatives in California. And my parents would
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never pay for hotels. So along the way, we'd have to camp.
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That's fun.
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And get to camp.
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That's kind of fun.
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Sometimes you'd be at a national park and stuff like that, and that was great. But sometimes
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we would end up at KOA.
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Just on the side of the road.
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Yeah, we were at one and we were like, I was just like, I wanted a fucking hotel because
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it had been like two days we've been on the road or so, and I'm just fucking tired of
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these campsites. And so we go to a KOA place and my dad's all like setting up the tent
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and he's all excited about like, ah, this is great, isn't it?
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Oh man, he's the dad from Calvin and Hobbes.
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There is a little bit of that streak, but he's excited about the like nailing in the
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stakes and the tent and stuff. And I point over to just behind some bushes and I'm like,
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dad, that is a shopping mall. We are feet away from a shopping mall. This is not camping.
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He got really sour about that.
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Yeah, that kind of takes the wind out of your sails there.
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Yeah. But then another time we were at an actual like out in the woods woods kind of
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camp place and a moose wandered into the campground.
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Oh, that's, that's intense.
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Yeah. That's scarier than you think.
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Yeah, no, absolutely. They're fucking huge.
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Or a lot bigger than you think.
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They're, they're well, like their shoulders are well above your height.
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Everybody, well, especially at that age, I was probably like 12 or something. Everybody
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likes to think of like bullwinkle and stuff. Real moose. Anyway, it's been, I don't think
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I've gone a long time without hot water.
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It's been since Monday and it won't be until Friday for me.
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Wait, let me walk that back. I live in an apartment now with very inconsistent hot water.
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Well, well, yeah. So I think I kind of have been living for two
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years without hot water. At least not on demand.
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Yeah. In my old place, there were plenty of winters where A, the heat entirely wouldn't
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work. For me, it was even in like fall and summer.
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Like it's not about the pipes. Oh man.
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It's just about this stupid building. That's why I've got to move.
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Anyway, I know a lot about Alex Jones. And I know a lot about cold water.
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Especially in the next few days. But I don't know anything about Alex Jones.
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Uh, and that is our show, our fun. We talk about water and Alex Jones.
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That's what we do. Uh, we got an episode to do here today.
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I think it'll be some fun, but before we get to it, got to give a shout out to some new
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folks who signed up and are supporting the show. So first of all, I'd like to say thank
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you to Jose. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Jose. Thank you very much, Jose.
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Next, Phantom T. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much, Phantom T. That sounds like a partner for Master P.
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It could be, yeah. It could have been one of the no limits
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soldiers smoking on their dojo. Absolutely. That would have been great.
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Yeah. Also, Nathan. Not so much of a good rap name, but a great name nonetheless.
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Famous hot dogs. Nathan, thank you for your policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, David.
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Next, Ben. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, Ben.
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Finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who elevated on a little bit of a higher level.
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And we appreciate it also very much. So Jay, you are now a technocrat.
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I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.
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Someone, someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.
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Daddy shark. Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.
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He's a loser little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people.
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I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much, Jay.
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Thank you very much, Jay. If you're out there listening
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and you're thinking, hey, I'd like to support this show.
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These guys are pretty all right in my book. They admit when they don't know what a rock or a bark
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is. You're killing me with this. Just poking you where you tend to.
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You can do that by you can support us by going to knowledge fight.com,
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clicking that button says support the show. We would appreciate it.
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Please do. So Jordan, on our last episode,
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we started our Sandy Hook investigation and I warned you that there was a decent chance
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I was just going to barrel through. Right.
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And I have today, we're going to be going over December 16th,
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uh, 2012. And that is because the 15th was a Saturday. Alex had no show.
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So he had some time to regroup, figure out what his narrative was going to be.
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Cause we, I know, uh, that, uh, it would be wrong to say anything too definitive,
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but you saw a lot of, uh oh, on a Wednesday's episode,
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a lot of trying to figure out where he was going to land on things.
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It was all the arrows pointing to Bugs Bunny, Bugs Bunny's hole the whole time.
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Yeah. And nothing helps resolve that
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sort of thing like a day off. So I assumed that, you know,
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the Sunday show we're going to come in, he's going to have his narrative together.
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And we'll find out if that's the case, uh, here on today's episode.
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Um, I opted not to do a present day episode, mostly because I don't care.
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Um, it's just traumatic. I don't care. I just assumed he did a Bernie
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Sanders impression. Bernie announced.
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Yeah, of course. So of course. Yeah.
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I don't really have a whole lot of intellectual curiosity or even
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narrative puncturing curiosity about whatever he's saying now.
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Like if Roger actually goes to jail early, we might check in.
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Oh, that'd be fun. Or, you know,
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we'll check in down the line. I'm not saying I'm abandoning the present,
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but it just does not hold as much interest or, uh, like priority to me
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as some of these other things. And we aren't, we are not, uh, or we
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cannot allow ourselves to be, uh, uh, uh, slaves to the whim of
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whatever's happening, right? You know, like we can't, we can't be
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following in his wake if we want to do the show that we want to do.
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So we're not a monster of the week show, man. We don't do that.
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We're not X-Files. We will do, uh, present day episodes, uh,
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eventually, maybe even next week. It's entirely possible, but this is
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what I'm so much more interested in right now and will be, uh, where,
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where I spend more of my time. We're breaking bad. This is a, we're,
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we're in bottle episode territory. Bottle month.
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Yeah. Uh, just all this Sandy hooks.
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Oh boy. And so, uh, I gave this caveat at the beginning of Wednesday's
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episode that, uh, that episode wasn't too bad. Right.
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And I will say that I don't think that this one is even too bad.
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God. I don't think he's gotten too bad yet. He's bad, but he's not too bad.
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So don't expect him to like be throwing around anything that will be,
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I don't know what is exactly something that would be traumatic for someone
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to hear, but I don't think he gets into any of that territory here on
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this show. So we're safe in terms of disgust.
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This is almost going to make the hammer drop even more horrific.
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I think that what we find in this episode makes it so much more
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depressing that we know where it ends up. So anyway, uh, in this first
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clip, uh, we get where Alex is starting off the show. And by this
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point, they've found out that it is Adam Lanza, who was the perpetrator
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of the shooting because by Sunday, a lot of information has come out.
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There's reporting on it. Um, and so here's Alex's take on it and what
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he thinks is the most important piece. Well, let's be clear here,
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ladies and gentlemen, wild horses could not pull me away on this Sunday.
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I like that. I like that he said that as if he had time traveled and
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listened to our episode where I was like, I'm sure he wished he didn't
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show up that day. Opens Sunday shows like wild horses could keep me for
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this day. I almost heard him say Dan, which doesn't speak much for my
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mental state worldwide broadcast.
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Thank you so much for joining us today. And we are going to be here for
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the next two hours. Obviously, Friday morning, we had the Connecticut
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mass shooting 20 dead children, seven dead adults. We now have at least
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the mainstream media's image. Uh, after blaming, uh, his brother and
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others, we have a mainstream media report on who supposedly did this.
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And we're going to be breaking those down. But today I want to drill into
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not just the people attacking the second amendment savagely and viciously
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right now, and the attacks that we're now seeing entered in legislation,
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but also via executive order that Obama's talking about outside of law,
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restricting our guns. I want to look at the psychology of the control
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freaks, uh, throughout history that always seek to disarm the people.
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So this is what he's more interested in. I think the supposedly the
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mainstream media is saying it's him. I don't know. I think it's still on
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the cusp of being inappropriate. I mean, I think it's probably
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inappropriate, but supposedly is inappropriate. I don't think it's
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monstrous yet at this point. I know that's the question we're going to
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have to keep coming back to is like, is this monstrous? Right. And I think
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because of the initial, uh, speculative, uh, inaccurate reports that
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were coming out, I think to a certain extent, a day, a day and a half, two
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days later, you could still have like, we might get more information on
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this and it might end up, uh, that this is wrong also. Right. But that's
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just a function of reporting and it being a developing story, uh, not of
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a coverup or anything like that, which is what he's sort of suggesting.
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It's not as monstrous as William Happer leading a climate change panel.
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You know what I'm saying? No, you're not happy about that. He might have
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popped up. I believe he popped up in my episode, I think. I believe so.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's not a good sign. Yeah. I don't, uh, I don't
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think that bodes well for, uh, uh, the climate that is a change. No, no, it
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does not. Um, so like I said, I think that that's still kind of like meh. I
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don't like the idea that he wants to spend most of the rest of his show
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talking about the psychology of gun grabbers. Right. That seems like the
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wrong use of time. Could be. It might, it might be the wrong thing to focus
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on. God, imagine if Obama had declared a national emergency in order to get
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gun laws passed. Oh boy. So in this next clip though, you hear Alex say
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something that is very comforting at the beginning of the clip and then
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wander into very un, uh, territory that doesn't inspire confidence, but it
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starts pretty well. If you believe the official story, and I tend to only
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because this fits in with the real, cause there's been some stage ones that
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even come out before like Sirhan, Sirhan and other events. But when you
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have a real mass shooting like this, it's always the same thing. Almost
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every case, it's a white male, white, sometimes Hispanic or Asian. If you
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just want to profile it from a law enforcement perspective. Okay. Just
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almost unheard of to have a black mass shooter for whatever reason. Um, just
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just profiling here, almost all white, Caucasian, uh, 25, 18, 25.
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Uh, generally even closer to 20. And normally they are mentally ill. They've
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normally been in psychiatric care. A lot of times it is, uh, something
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they've dealt with their whole life. Uh, autism of course has gone from one
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in 25,000, 30 years ago to one in 58. Now, according to the British
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medical journal and the medical journals here in the United States, we
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have similar numbers to what they have in England. You can debate whether
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it's one in 37 or one in 120. But the numbers globally in the Western
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world are settling in at about one in 58. This is just a name of all sorts
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of people, brain damaged in utero from different chemicals and things that
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are in the food chain and then things that they also get once they're
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born. And of course Nirvana's album. Like a selective lobotomy. So I don't
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like that characterization of people who are on the autism spectrum, first
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of all. And then second of all, that clip is to me, the path of Alex
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Jones, because it starts with, if you believe the official story and I
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tend to, which is good. Which doesn't sound accurate though.
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It's not great. That is not a good reporting, but at least he is
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indicating that I think this might be real. But then when he starts giving
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his reasons for why he thinks it might be real, he's like, because of
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vaccines turning everyone into autistic people who are brain damaged and
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then go kill people. That's not great. No, the path is very bad. The
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beginning point is it's right there close to acceptable. He just doesn't
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know where to end a thought. Yeah. If he just ended it with, I believe
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the, I think I believe the official story. I tend to believe the official
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story, period. New thought. That would be fine. Yep. And that sort of
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same mentality carries on into this next clip, that same path, that
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same weird journey from a defensible place into a real, not, not
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defensible. It was actually knock. First off, I just want to extend my
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condolences to the families and the survivors from the tragic
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Connecticut shooting that happened Friday morning. Good on you. I myself
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have three children, one of them, a four year old girl, and we were all
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very depressed and very upset up here on Friday because I think almost
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the whole crew has children and most of us have young children.
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And when you see a robot, because that's what this guy was like, and
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it's an incredible, if you had to profile subset of people that keep
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doing these things, even though mass shootings are flat in the last 20
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years, about the same every year, this year has actually been worse than
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the last decade or so statistically, but overall it's flat. You can pull
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those numbers up. And the reason, the reason that it's gone up is because
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of all these people on these psych meds, which is what the argument
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he's making. So now you still really do like to see him offer
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condolences to the families. Right. Because that does indicate that he
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does know that this is real. He knows. He knows. He knows. Yeah. Everybody,
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everybody at InfoWars knows. He wouldn't behave this way if there wasn't
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an awareness on some level that like, whatever I end up saying eventually,
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and I don't know if he, I don't know how much awareness he has of even
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that, but like, no matter where the end of this road is, the beginning of
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the road is awareness that this is real. Yeah. And that's, that's good,
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but also way worse. It makes, yeah, it makes the eventual InfoWars
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harassment of these, these people so much more dirty, so much more
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like intentional and disgusting in that he's, he can empathize and he
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can respect that, holy shit, these mass shootings are entirely possible.
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They are increasing and my children are at risk, which if that's where
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you got to go to understand it, I get it. It's wrong.
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It's like an elementary way to empathize, but if you get there, you
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get there. Yeah. To some extent. I mean, it's not, it's, it's kind of,
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it's a little bit like that, uh, you know, I have three daughters, so I
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understand what it's like when women and you're like, that's not right.
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I agree with you, but when we're dealing with Alex Jones, that's a
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positive sign. This is a huge win. Yeah. But again, it's a huge loss
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because it does indicate that when he does start saying those things
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later, it's built on a foundation of him absolutely knowing, uh, that
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this is real and he's bummed out about it. Uh, that's a, that's another
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question. Do we know exactly the date that he, I know we have the clip,
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we have the clip of him saying, now I know. Right, exactly. So this is,
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this is, I mean, that is entirely three years later. Yeah. It could,
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it, this is not an excuse by any means, but it is a sort of recency bias
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there with him right here where he is now affected emotionally by it.
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And then later on, cause he doesn't give a fuck anymore because he, like
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all of us has become somewhat desensitized. Possibly, possibly, or it
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could be preemptive justification for his, uh, only wanting to talk about
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guns. Right. Like, because that makes him talking about guns and how they
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want to grab them and all that stuff a little more palatable because he's
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at the same time recognizing the horrible tragedy that these families
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and survivors had to go through. For sure. So that was kind of the sugar
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that helps the pill go down or whatever. So there's, there, again, we're
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speculating. Right. It's almost impossible to know exactly what is
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going through his mind, but these are, these are some of the things you
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kind of think might be going through his mind when you deal with someone
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like this, an inveterate liar. It's like a, it's like a small, uh, broken
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ring in the chain mail, you know, of like, this guy is a psychopath, but
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for one brief second you can see that, uh, missing scale in the underbelly
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of Smaug, you know? And the problem too is that we know that he does
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eventually say it's fake. Yeah. And we, I know that he said it before
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that clip that we have from 2015. He has to. I'm sure he says it a bunch,
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but I don't know when he does. I don't believe, based on our last
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episode, I don't believe the story that, like, all these nefarious
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weirdos like Wolfgang Helbig came along and convinced him it was fake.
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Right. He was already ready to believe it the day, like, the minute
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after. For sure. So that, that kind of, uh, it loses a little bit of its
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credence to me. Right. But I still don't know what the path is, and
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there's a real decent chance, like we speculated on the last episode,
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that he needed those sorts of people to give him the cover. Right. Uh, to
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make the arguments that he intrinsically wanted to make, maybe because
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they're better for traffic to the website, maybe because they're better
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as a way to reinforce his, they want your guns, narratives. Right. And
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any of those things are possible, but I'm, I'm excited to see the, because
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I, I, I bet it's not as soon as we think. You know why? This investigation
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might last until 2015. It won't. I bet it's in early 2013. And my
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reasoning for that is that we listened to the December 21st, 2012
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episode for one of our past, uh, time travel episodes. That's true. And
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he talks to David Icke a bunch, and they don't talk about Sandy Hook
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really all that much, from what I recall. And then there's Christmas
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after that. He's got to take a couple days off, probably for Christmas.
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Of course. You assume. The end of the year. I bet he doesn't really
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bear down into this until early 2013. Yeah. But we'll see. That's my
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prediction for right now. I really don't like him bringing up Sirhan
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Sirhan, like Robert Kennedy wouldn't be his greatest mortal enemy there's
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ever been. He does do a lot of that repurposing villains and, uh, and
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allies from history. He recasts them however he sees fit. Yeah. For his
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purposes, he should be like, the greatest thing that ever happened to
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this country was Sirhan Sirhan murdering the, uh, eventual true
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president. There's an example of that that's super egregious that will be
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on our next episode, but we'll get to that when we get to it. Okay. For
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now, Alex wants to make the argument. He wants to talk mostly about guns.
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Of course. And in this next clip, he's going to use some sources that I
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think might be a little biased on the issue to make the argument that all
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cultures over time that are authoritarian in nature, they want to
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take your guns and they will stage crises in order to do it. That was the
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first thing Caesar did. Here's the most important thing I want to tell you.
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Should have taken knives. There is a blueprint that has been followed
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in Soviet Russia, in Nazi Germany, in communist China, in Japan, uh, in
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Australia, in New Zealand, in England, in Germany. It has been followed in
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Brazil. It has been followed. And, and again, there's been documentaries
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made about this. The NRA has written books, Jews, the preservation of
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firearms, ownership's written books on the subject. I've studied it. Have
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you? And they always use school shootings or mall shootings in every
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case for the media to say, aren't you for the children? This wouldn't have
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happened if we didn't have semi-auto handguns and rifles, and then they
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ban the handguns and rifles. And then they register all the other guns.
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And then they have a mass shooting where somebody uses a bolt action and
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then they ban those. And that's how it works.
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That's not how it works. All of those countries have very different
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histories with gun laws and they all have come to different places. Yeah.
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And from a gun law perspective that their national sovereignty has led to
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them too. Ah, no, that's globalism. First amendment. They all have Japan's
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first amendment rights. There are variable gun laws throughout even just
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the countries that he's naming and historical countries that he's naming.
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Of course. It's a woeful oversimplification of things just to be
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like, they do this, they stage these attacks in order to take guns. But the
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reason he's doing that is because that is what he'd like, the story he'd
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like to tell about Sandy Hook. Of course. Because it works more. If he
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believes that every authoritarian country throughout the course of history
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throughout the course of history has staged these attacks in order to erode
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gun rights and gun laws, and he believes that Obama is an aspiring
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authoritarian Hitler, then it follows from those two premises that the
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conclusion is that Sandy Hook is fake. Yes. It has to. Yeah, of course. It has
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to be orchestrated by the government. Whether it is real or not, it has to be
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orchestrated in order for the government to take our guns. So by
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extension, either it's fake and nobody died, or it's fake and everybody died,
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and it doesn't matter either way. I don't think he's anywhere near actor
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stuff. I will say that with quite a bit of certainty. I don't think that. I
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agree with you. But he's very close to, like what he wants to say is like
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basically, they marched him in that building, Adam Lanza, and they had
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somebody else dressed like him who shot up everybody. He was all drugged
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up. They killed him in the school and then covered it up and stuff like
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that. That's the version of it that seems like what he wants to tell. The
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actor stuff I don't think is even on his mind. Yeah, I 100% agree with you.
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This is absolutely him saying that the government murdered people, not
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that the government faked the whole thing like the moon landing, which we
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all of course know is fake. It is very much, and I think it's way worse for
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him to say that, I don't know. I don't know what's worse because it denies
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the humanity of these children if you call them crisis actors and it leads to
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them being threatened horribly. This one might be a push on the evil scale.
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Yeah, but there are slightly different evil, just on a very basic level.
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You take it to its constituent parts and you see, what are you implying by
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this? One of them is saying that these people, because it's not just the
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government or anything, it would be someone who actually did the killing of
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those children in that version of the conspiracy theory. You're imagining
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some SWAT team member who is now a mass child murderer. That's pretty
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awful to put on somebody. The other version is pretending that these kids
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and these parents, their grief isn't real. Both of them are real bad. I don't
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know where to plant my flag in terms of worse, but they're both real bad.
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They're both tremendously and incredibly disrespectful and just
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absolutely psychopathic.
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The only reason I bring that up at all is because I think it's important to
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recognize that there are different breeds of this Sandy Hook conspiracy. I
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think Alex has trafficked in a lot of them. I don't think that that version,
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that we know he ends up on in 2015, where he says it's completely synthetic
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staged with actors, I don't think that's anywhere near his mind. Some of
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that could have actually been the influence of those negative actors.
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That's possible.
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But he was ready to hear it based on him believing that a SWAT team did it
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and then set up Adam Lambert.
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Yeah. It's borderline like, you think that 9-11 is an inside job. That's
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awful. If you think that 9-11 didn't actually happen and the towers are
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still there, you're crazy.
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It's weird. I think that one of the things that interests me the most about
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this investigation and the unknownness of it, the sort of great expanse we're
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walking into, unlike a KOA campsite, this is the actual woods.
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Then there's no mall anywhere near here.
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No, but what I enjoy about it a little bit is that nuance, that difference
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between what is he actually saying, because I think if we understand that
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better, you understand the present better. There is something to be gained
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from that, even if it does seem a little bit semantic, because it is to an
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extent.
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Right, right, right. It's a utilitarian moral argument that doesn't make any
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sense at the end of the day. There's children there.
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And even if we come to the conclusion that the actor stuff is stuff that
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invaded Alex's world, I still don't think that lets him off the hook for
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anything.
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Absolutely not.
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So even if we find that out, that's just an intellectual curiosity satisfied,
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as opposed to a like, oh, that's an excuse. Wolf dang Helbig told you there
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were actors.
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Here's the end of our investigation. Turns out Steve Pacenik is worse than
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we thought, which was the worst.
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Still hasn't shown up.
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I just won't hear from him yet today either.
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We'll see.
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Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting.
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So Alex believes that everybody wants to take the guns. They're all doing
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like all this stuff, whether or not they play into the event or any of that,
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or if it actually happened and now they're using it to take guns, they
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want to take guns. And it's because of a UN treaty that's gone on that they
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want to take guns from people.
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Did not know that.
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Also, the UN treaty they couldn't get last year is set, and we've covered it.
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We've written articles at Infowars.com on it in detail.
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Nope.
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The UN treaty says no civilian ownership of firearms. And that's not
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just my interpretation. That's Forbes and Reuters.
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Nope.
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And because it says states can have guns, governments, but not individuals.
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It says states have rights. They play lawyer tricks, but then they later
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have addendums from the meetings of UNIDIR. That's the subset of the UN,
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the United Nations Small Arms Restriction Summit, UNIDIR.
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We don't mean individuals. We mean governments.
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Because civilian ownership of firearms threatens the legitimate power
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monopoly of the state. That's a quote.
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That's a problem when he says a quote.
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Oh, no. Who's that a quote from?
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I'm not actually entirely sure. I trust it down to a number of potential
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sources, but it's hard to tell exactly where that enters.
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Alex is way off on this UN treaty he's going on about here. The treaty
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that he has to be talking about is the Arms Trade Treaty, which wasn't
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actually passed until December 2014, but had been in the works since
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2001. Since the process began to try to get this thing signed, it's
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been the focus of a ton of patriot propaganda, specifically that it was
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the world government signaling they were about to take everyone's guns.
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The problem is that that treaty doesn't do anything of the sort. The
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Arms Trade Treaty, as the name might suggest, was about international
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illegal weapons trafficking. That's very clearly and specifically what
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it was talking about. Creating international agreements to put in
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place instruments to help limit clandestine black market arms trading,
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which I assume is something Alex might be into, or at least he should be,
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since it kind of gives legal law-abiding gun owners a bad rap.
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Illegal gun trade only hurts, well, it hurts a whole lot more people,
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but it also hurts people who are legal gun owners.
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It was almost called the No More Iran Contras Treaty.
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He also knows a lot of those dudes, so that might be part of why.
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Yeah, that could be an issue.
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The NRA was doing great. Oh, no.
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Actually, Alex doesn't like the NRA at this point.
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He says that they're loyal opposition. Like, in 2012, he is not super into
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the NRA.
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Until they hire Iran Contra folks.
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But he likes the more extreme versions of it. He likes the more extreme
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gun groups. And actually, spoiler alert, Stuart Rhodes is on this
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episode from the Oath Keepers. Stuart Rhodes shows up.
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I almost said the Oath Keepers.
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It's a very boring interview, so we're not going to actually listen to any of it.
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He has a...
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They don't actually talk about Sandy Hook really at all.
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Of course.
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They talk about threats to guns.
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The treaty itself, this UN arms trade treaty, it goes so far out of its way to
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stress that individual states are not bound by this treaty to alter any of
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their domestic laws.
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I'm going to read to you from page one, where it specifically reaffirms,
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quote, the sovereign right of any state to regulate and control conventional
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arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal and
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constitutional system.
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The treaty even gives countries a back door to leave the treaty at any point if
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they feel like it isn't something they want to be a part of, as it says in
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Article 24, quote, each state party shall, in exercising its national
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sovereignty, have the right to withdraw from this treaty.
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They even say that they don't have to give a reason to withdraw.
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And the only qualification that they even give is that if a country withdraws,
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that doesn't mean that they're immune from consequences for breaking the
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treaty, but only if they broke the treaty before they withdrew.
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Okay, so this is the most toothless thing that you could imagine.
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More or less.
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That qualification is only to say that you can't withdraw from the treaty when
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you know you've been breaking it and get away with it.
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Right, right, right, right.
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That's the only qualification that they even really get.
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Right, right.
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The only thing I can think of that Alex would be talking about here, other
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thing, other than this treaty, is the UN report that they released in July 2001
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about a conference that was held about, quote, eradicating the illicit trade in
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small arms and light weapons.
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Not surprisingly, this also doesn't say anything about eliminating citizens'
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rights to own guns and actually includes this bit of language that I found a bit
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surprising.
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We reaffirm, quote, the right of self-determination of all peoples, taking
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into account the particular situation of peoples under colonial or other forms of
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alien domination or foreign occupation and recognizing the right of peoples to
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take legitimate action in accordance with the charter of the United Nations to
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realize their inalienable right of self-determination.
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This shall not be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action that
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would dismember or impair totally or impart the territorial integrity or
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political unity of sovereign and independent states conducting themselves
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in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of all
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peoples.
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Wait.
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So does that actually, if I understand that correctly, does that mean that if
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you are like the Virgin Islands and you decide that you want to be your own
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country, illegal weapons sales are fine?
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No, because this is that report, not the treaty itself.
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Oh, OK, OK.
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They're reaffirming the right.
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I would say the language that they're using, it very, very reasonably could be
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assumed it means you can take up arms.
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It kind of does mean that, right?
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It's like American Revolution, totally fine.
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But if China is selling illegal weapons to like Russia, we got to solve this
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problem.
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They recognize the right of peoples to take legitimate action to realize their
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inalienable right of self-determination.
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Yeah, that really seems like we're cool with revolutions, bro.
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Yeah, I mean, they're straight up saying they explicitly recognize the right of
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occupied and colonialized people to take up arms against their oppressors, which
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is cool.
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That's a weird thing for the UN to say.
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Yeah, I know.
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That is a weird thing for the UN to say.
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But I guess if you came to a point where you could demonstrate or had a good
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argument that the United Nations in and of itself was making it so you had no
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self-determination or freedom or your inalienable rights, then by their own
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words, yeah, you should be able to take up arms against them.
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It kind of seems like the idea there is similar to, you know, like France
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recognizing the United States as a country immediately following the
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Declaration of Independence.
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You know, like the UN will immediately recognize if you're a colonized state,
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if you're like Haiti, they'll be like, hey, fuck it.
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We're cool with you.
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I don't know if it would be immediate, but yeah.
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It would be, well, it wouldn't be immediate.
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And I'm positive that hasn't been used well or anything like that, but it's in
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the language of the meeting, this report that they put out in July 2001.
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The language in both that report and the eventual arms trade treaty does
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discuss the need for regulation and oversight of weapons importers and
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exporters, since that would be one of the only ways you'd be able to find
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illegal weapons trafficking.
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So I would bet anything that this is what Alex is exaggerating and lying
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about.
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He views any attempt to deal with the problems created by the illegal use
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of guns as being an attack on his legal ownership of guns.
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And that's a position that requires him to create straw men out of every
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perceived attack on guns, which unfortunately undermines whatever he
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wants his point to be.
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Oh, and also the US signed that treaty, but it's never been ratified.
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So we're not really even subject to it.
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Great.
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Ratification would have required two thirds vote in the Senate.
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And since the treaty was signed in 2013, even though the Democrats had a
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53-45 lead over the Republicans in that session of Congress, McConnell was
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still the minority leader.
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And there's no chance in hell Obama was going to be able to sway enough
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Republicans to get the treaty ratified.
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God damn it.
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McConnell is going to go down as one of history's great villains.
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He has carved out a real spot for himself.
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It's done some real bad, bad stuff.
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He is an awful human being.
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Also, the quote, civilian ownership of any firearm in the United States
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threatens a legitimate power monopoly of the state, is not a quote from the
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UN at all.
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It's a quote from right-wing blogs and talking points put out by the NRA and
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the Heritage Foundation in order to undermine support for the treaty.
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None of Alex's information reflects reality, nor does it come from places
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he's asserting that it comes from.
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And even that power monopoly of the state is such libertarian language that
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there's literally no way anyone except some sort of libertarian-leaning
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think tank or blog would phrase it that way.
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So in this next clip, Alex, it's good that we've listened to a bunch of
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2009, because we know a lot of those narratives that he was using in 2009.
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And he's using them still in 2012, but sort of talking about them as if
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they're current, as opposed to being things we heard him talk about that
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were dated even in 2009.
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Homeland Security documents say gun owners, returning veterans,
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libertarians, conservatives, number one threat.
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You've seen that in the news.
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So the government's training that we, the real Americans are the enemy,
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while telling us, hey, turn your guns in, we want to play nice.
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And then while trying to blame us for some Prozac head, some video game
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head, going and doing this.
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We need guns.
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Okay, all right.
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Weird, weird to have mamas and the papas behind that.
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Yeah.
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Very weird.
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Unmellow kind of throw to break about needing guns for the Prozac heads.
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All the guns are fine.
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The guns are fine.
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Don't take any of those meds.
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Don't take any meds.
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Yikes.
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He is gross.
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Not good.
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No.
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But you were yelling, MIAC.
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That is just MIAC shit.
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That's all MIAC.
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That's all the stuff that we've deconstructed from 2009, all of his
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perceived attacks on the Patriot community and the militias and stuff
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like that.
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You put it under a microscope, you look at it and you see that he's just
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making that up.
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And this is why these sorts of things that we do are important, because
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now that we have that as a piece of our awareness and people understand,
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you can hear that clip.
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And before you could have thought, I don't know what he's talking about.
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These Homeland Security, all these people trying to demonize the Patriots
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and stuff like that.
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I don't know.
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We do know.
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We know that's a lie.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It was a lie in 2009 and it's a fucking lie three years later.
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Absolutely.
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But he's pulling from these wells of his brain in order to justify the
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gun grabber paranoia narrative.
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Right.
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In order to, I don't know, what would you call it?
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And create like foliage around having to talk about Sandy Hook
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specifically.
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Like in...
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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I can see what you're saying.
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On Wednesday's show, we heard a lot more of the like wishy washy teasing
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saying it's fake and stuff like that, because he had to.
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It was the day of.
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But now he's gathered his thoughts and it's, well, no matter what,
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it's an attack on guns.
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So I can buy even more time by just talking about that angle
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and dismissing whatever, like talk about the reality of Adam Lanza
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or the actual shooting.
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Right.
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It's missing the forest for the trees, except for you're trying to shoot down
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all the trees.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Intentionally doing that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Caring about the cape instead of the bull or something.
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That was not a good metaphor.
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So at the end of that clip, you heard him say he's a video game head.
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Sure.
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And that's interesting.
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What does he play?
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I don't know if I know that.
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God, I wonder if we...
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It might be in some reporting somewhere.
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I'll look into that for a future episode.
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I wonder if he and I would just sit down and be like,
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Hey, man, I don't know how I feel about Final Fantasy 13 Lightning Returns.
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I think it was better than Final Fantasy 13.
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And I'm not sure about Final Fantasy 13, too.
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There were only two people.
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Some cheat shoes were overpowered.
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But listen, we're having a great time.
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If he said that he liked Eternal Darkness, I'd have to head back to the woods.
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Oh, that'd be crazy.
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What does that say about me?
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I gotta go hang out with my moose friend in the woods.
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But it's interesting because I haven't heard a lot of this,
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but it is something that comes up from time to time.
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Alex has an intrinsic distrust of video games.
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And actually, we had a listener who is a wonk.
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He is, I believe, a globalist.
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Michael, who messaged me about wanting to hear about Alex's take on video games.
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Right.
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And I want to give a full episode about that, but it comes so piecemeal
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that I'm not really fully able to satisfy that request.
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Yeah.
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But I think in the Sandy Hook investigation,
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we are going to accidentally hear him talk a lot of shit about video games.
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And it's interesting because that is something that he's using to attack
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Adam Lanza in the same way that he's using.
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He's a Prozac head, all that stuff.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I want to say that he's more like the bar video game guy.
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Like he's the deer hunter guy and the super golf or whatever it's called.
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Like that thing.
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Sexy photo hunt.
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Shout out to Matt Druffky's fantastic joke.
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Yeah, so in this next clip, he talks more about that.
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Talks more about the video games and how they make people crazy.
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There's a lot of crazy psychos out there and they usually grab you and go and torture you.
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There's some psychos, though, that want to kill you right on the spot.
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It's kind of like eating in, you know, going into the restaurant to eat,
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not getting a hamburger bag and going home to eat it.
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Most psychopaths want to go home and take their time.
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You know, a lot of these psychos, you know, like to torture people, take their time.
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But of a small minority, they're usually just programmed by video games.
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They're brain damaged.
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I've already got into this.
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I want to say they're evil and, you know, think about what I do to them.
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But really, folks, it's always just some weird goth nerd kid who's brain damaged
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on a bunch of drugs, watching devil movies all day, playing video games.
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He is expressing basically like updated version of the satanic panic nonsense.
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Absolutely.
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And what the, you know, the stuff about Dylan Kleibold.
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Dylan and Kleibold listen to Marilyn Manson.
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Knights in Satan service.
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That's what kiss really means.
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It's 100% the same tired, tired argument that is usually used by people who wish to restrict
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free speech to some extent.
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You know, people like a tipper gore.
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I was about to bring up tipper gore.
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Yeah.
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Holy shit.
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People who want.
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We are on the same fucking page, man.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, this sort of argument is not something you would ever expect to hear out of someone
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who thinks they're a libertarian.
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Yeah.
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The idea of like violent video games made this guy kill a guy.
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Right.
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Like, what the fuck?
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So we need regular, yeah.
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Regular.
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Or do you outlaw video games as a whole?
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Now what's a video game?
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Right.
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Fun times with that one, Alex.
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Right.
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Or is it the regulation you say you can't have violence in video games?
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Right.
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And then what does that become?
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Right.
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Where do you draw the line on that shit?
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Can Mario jump on a Goomba?
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Like that sort of thing.
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That's a good question.
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Right.
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That's violence.
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That's violence as fuck.
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Right.
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Because in most video games, you're not even killing the guy.
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Like you're knocking them out.
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But Goombas get murdered.
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I'm straight up.
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I've been playing so much Hyrule Warriors.
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Oh, you kill all the time.
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But they're always called KOs.
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Nice.
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They're listed as knockouts.
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Nice.
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Even though you're walking around slashing people with swords,
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and then they fade to gray.
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Yeah.
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I mean, they fade to gray.
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But that sort of mentality and that idea,
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it really does become like,
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neither of us are super big fans of slippery slope arguments,
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but it does become a situation where you're like,
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well, what is it that you're actually complaining about?
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Right.
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Devil movies?
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What's a devil movie?
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Poltergeist?
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Well, yes.
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Anything with Gabriel Byrne in it is a devil movie.
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You know how kids these days, in 2012,
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they're always watching Poltergeist.
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Rosemary's Baby.
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That's what they're doing.
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Rosemary's Baby.
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They, yeah.
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Kids love Robert Evans.
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I don't think.
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Not the Robert Evans from Behind the Basterds.
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The other, the other, other.
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The kid who stays in the picture, Robert Evans.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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The idea of it, I mean,
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he's not literally talking about the devil,
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but like the, what is the point where you're like,
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this is no good is satisfied.
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It's a very censorious position to have.
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And it is not something you expect to hear from someone
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who is into free speech, who's a libertarian,
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who believes people should live and let live or whatever.
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And it's, it's nuts.
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Like that alone should be an invalidation of Alex
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pretending he has the principles he professes.
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Absolutely.
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And in the, in practice, you wind up getting the,
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the PG, PG-13, R rating thing,
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where it's all just arbitrary nonsense.
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Oh, if you have a, if you have one pair of tits,
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then it's PG-13, you can say, fuck one time.
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Like, what is that?
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What does that even mean?
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I'm fine with rating movies,
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but I think the body that does it is terrible.
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And the guidelines are terrible.
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But I think there is value to it in as much as like,
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if you're a parent, you don't have time to fucking do it.
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You don't have time to fucking know what you're going to.
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Right, right, right, right.
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That sort of thing.
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Right, right, right.
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I think that you need a shorthand for parents.
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I heard that the third,
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How to Train Your Dragon gets a hard R.
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So I'm pretty excited about that.
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It's, it's called How to Train Your Deadpool 3.
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That's funny.
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I saw the second one or, what was it?
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I don't know.
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I think it was the sequel.
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And when I was getting a root canal.
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And I had a lot of thoughts.
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Yeah.
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A lot of thoughts about it.
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Yeah.
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A lot of tooth related thoughts.
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Nope.
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Especially considering his name is Toothless.
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And you were getting a root canal.
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That is ironic.
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I didn't even put those pieces together.
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Oh, I put it all together.
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Um, anyway, we'll have to save my thoughts
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on How to Save Your Dragon for another day.
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How to Train Your Dragon.
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Yeah, whatever.
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I was on the gas, man.
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Turns out I may not have thoughts about that movie.
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That one dragon?
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Too big.
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Yeah, get them out of here.
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Get them out of here.
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So in this next clip, Alex says what I would describe
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as the most ironic thing possible,
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given what we know about the future.
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Yeah.
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But...
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Like rain on your wedding day.
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But it sounds good two days after the shooting.
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It sounds good, but we know too much.
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Right.
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So put your mic down and enjoy this delicious piece of...
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Whoops.
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Yeah, the police are now begging reporters
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to leave grieving families alone.
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Well, they're not going to leave them alone
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because they want to demonize the Second Amendment.
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And that's what they're doing.
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I saw them on the news.
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What do you feel about the Second Amendment?
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What do you think about guns?
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Please just leave us alone.
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I bet they wish somebody would have been in there with a gun,
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even if it was a cop, to stop it.
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And the answer is firearms to protect ourselves.
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So I think that the irony is delicious there.
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The idea that he's condemning these reporters
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trying to harass the families.
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When we know that the end result of so many of his actions.
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And I'm not saying that in some abstract sense.
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Like, there are people who have sent death threats
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to the families and gone to court.
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And part of their probation has been,
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you can't listen to Infowars.
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Like, that sort of stuff.
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It's not some sort of wacky idea that we have
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that a lot of his listeners have this impulse
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to harass these family members.
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But...
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It's been borne out by reality.
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But back then, that is a good instinct, I think, to have.
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But I don't think it reflects reality.
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I don't think that the reporters were harassing the families,
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trying to get them to say bad things about guns.
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But if they were, they shouldn't have been.
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And I agree with Alex.
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I don't think that's the word.
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It is so weird.
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This gets back to the last episode
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where I'm talking about,
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I use humor to deal with these types of things.
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And like, that is, that I can't help but laugh at.
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But what that truly is in retrospect
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is utterly reprehensible.
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Utterly reprehensible behavior
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that cannot be allowed to continue.
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And it's hilarious because it's so awful.
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But it's not reprehensible here.
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I think it's reflecting his unwillingness
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or inability to understand what is happening in front of him.
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Like the idea that he thinks that these families
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are being harassed by journalists and stuff.
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And maybe a few journalists were.
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I bet that there probably were.
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I'm sure there were.
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The Daily Mail is fucking off.
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Who knows?
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There are probably some people who are acting out of line
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and trying to get the story,
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trying to get some juicy gas or whatever.
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But like his inability to understand exactly what's going on
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is leading him to be sort of papa morality
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about like, hey, leave these families alone.
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And that's good, but it's hilarious because we know.
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Yeah.
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And that's not.
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He's the number one purveyor of making them harass people.
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And that's not laughing at the tragedy.
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That's laughing at Alex's.
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I guess what you're laughing at is that he knows better.
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Like in the same way that that clip earlier that we played
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where he's given condolences to the family
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is so demonstrative that he knows something really bad happened.
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That is an indication that he knows
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that other people's actions can cause negative reactions
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for the victims and the survivors.
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It is kind of like that should be played in his trials of like,
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no, I know this is intentionally awful
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because he himself said that it was intentionally awful
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to do the thing that he made happen.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The best defense I think you would have is like,
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I had no idea that my actions would cause this thing
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that I know is terrible.
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Right.
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And if that's the case, then you should be off the air.
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I mean, maybe not by legal mandate or anything like that.
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But if you don't know, if you don't realize
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that what you're saying will lead people to harass these people.
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Right.
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Docs them on the internet and shit like that.
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If you don't realize that, then you're playing with fire
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that you don't have any mastery of.
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You're an irresponsible actor that should just not be allowed.
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You just shouldn't be allowed.
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Or you should just do sports.
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I bet he couldn't even handle that though.
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I bet he'd say something really fucked up.
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Oh man.
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I'd just be worse than Dennis Miller on Monday Night Football.
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We naive. Hey, we already know what he thinks about Kaepernick.
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So we definitely don't want him covering sports.
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I'm just, that was the, I know that was the wrong thing to choose.
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Weather. Nah, you'd say it was weapons.
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I was trying to, that would be a weather report that nobody could not watch.
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I was trying to figure out, it's gonna rain tomorrow because of the government.
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I was trying to figure out the slot to put him in that would be so low stakes.
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And my mind wouldn't allow me to go to celebrity gossip
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because the publication would be sued immediately.
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Immediately.
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Because he would do it so poorly.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Even Peter Thiel would have to sue him at some point.
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Ah, this is not a blind item.
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Uh, yeah.
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TM Alex Jones.
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There's no way, yeah, there's no way to put him anywhere.
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But like, the point of what I was trying to get at is put him somewhere low stakes
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instead of this incredibly powder keggy, very high stakes world that he's operating in.
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Make him be the anchor on the local news station who's like,
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and we have the cutest kitten of the month here today.
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Like that would work.
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It's that time of year again, a squirrel is water skiing.
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We're all excited when it happens.
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He should do Tosh 2.0.
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That's what he should do.
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He should be sentenced to a lifetime of the worst human interest stories.
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Yeah.
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Uh, just inconsequential reporting.
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America's conspiracyist home videos.
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Where like the secret service has to follow him on shoots and like, uh, he tries to get off script.
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And he just says, going to prison if you don't have people following him around.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:06.239)
That would be an interesting kind of hell, uh, to sentence him to or like,
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Oh, here would be great.
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Okay.
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So what do we got to an internship with the council on foreign relations
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or something like that sentence him to a class.
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Where he has to actually read and discuss the primary sources that he talks about.
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Oh yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:28.079)
Okay.
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Cause that would be that sort of like the punishment.
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It doesn't fit the crime, but it might be the only, it might be a therapeutic way to go about it.
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Make him a paralegal for the SPLC.
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I don't think that would do it.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:42.079)
I just assume everything was fake or something like that.
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Even no matter how he couldn't read, he couldn't read the briefs.
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Fair, fair, fair.
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The reason that I said you got to have that to be a class and stuff like that,
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like a workshop is because you need to have someone discussing with him.
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The way he's misreading these things and confront him with it in a setting that he can't leave.
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That's why it has to be court order.
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Fair enough.
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I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:03.599)
It's interesting.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:04.079)
It's fun to think about what would be a good punishment for him.
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Every morning he wakes up and has to live out that dream of going to high school in your underwear.
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That's what has to happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:15.599)
No, cause he was swole as shit back in high school and was super cool and everyone wanted to fuck him.
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He goes to high school in his underwear.
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That's why he's got to do it now.
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Oh, that wouldn't be so great.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:23.840)
No.
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Thick ass neck walking in that school.
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Hey Alex, what's bigger, your ass or your neck?
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Oh.
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Fucking kids are globalists these days.
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I don't know what to tell you.
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Also algebra is hard.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:37.199)
So, uh, yeah, all that aside, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:40.159)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:40.960)
Uh, but in this next clip, Alex talks about the foundation of America.
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The beginning of this country.
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Wrongly.
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Very much.
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I can already tell you wrongly.
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Yes.
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And again, the collectivist do this in every country, the same script.
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This is how they get the guns every time.
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And here they're failing because it's such a part.
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Hey lady, the gun culture you're so upset about and that, and that Bob Costas hates so much.
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The gun culture is America.
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We are rough and tumble.
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It's true.
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When he says, Hey lady, he's been complaining about Diane Feinstein, just to give you some.
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Oh, okay.
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And it started in 1776, July 4th.
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You may have heard of it over the red codes coming to go door to door, taking legal firearms.
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So the country was born when you came to take the guns.
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And if you're stupid enough to try it again, it'll be reborn again.
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He goes on to say, I don't want it to be reborn that way.
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Sure.
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But you already hear like him defining a sort of 1776 2.0 there.
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And it's just a, it's all gun shit.
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Everything's guns, all guns.
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Yep.
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America was based on guns.
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Gun culture is American culture.
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I don't know if I believe in any of that.
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It is kind of fascinating that this very argument has been going on since the beginning.
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Do you know, like in the first constitutional Congresses,
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there were these gun folk in those Congresses.
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There were so many of these people who are, uh, you know, who are like, Hey, we should
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have socialized medicine.
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And then other people were like, what if we killed everybody?
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Like it was, it was that, you know, like you have so many people, uh, like, uh, fucking
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Hamilton arguing for centralized power within the executive branch and you just keep going
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through all this shit and you're like, it's the same fucking argument we've had since
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the goddamn beginning.
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This country is a fucking mess.
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With different masks, different presentations.
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Yeah.
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There's, there's something to that.
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I don't know.
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I would say that if the people, um, who it wasn't the majority of people in the colonies
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who wanted to start this revolutionary war, but it was not no and good on them for doing
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it.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:59.679)
Fine.
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Sure.
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Maybe they got a little bit higher tax.
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So they started a revolution.
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That's a, that's a little bit troublesome.
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I would say history is born out that it worked out fine.
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Really?
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Well, the only reason I resist any of that sort of sentiment is because like, if we were
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still like the United States as it is now, but a territory of the United Kingdom, I don't
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think it would be better.
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We could be Canada.
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Eh, but we could just have the queen on our money and everybody be fine.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:34.239)
Sure.
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Whatever the case.
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I think quite frankly, if the, like Alex is describing the thing that set off the revolutionary
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war, um, was guns and people having their guns taken, that it wouldn't be the second
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amendment.
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It wouldn't be an amendment.
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It would be the first thing in the constitution period.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:55.599)
Well, maybe the structure of government is laid out in the articles and stuff like that,
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but one of the articles would be, hey, the reason we did this is they wanted to take
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our guns as opposed to being an afterthought, not an afterthought, but these things that
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are added in.
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It would have been in the fucking declaration of independence.
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You bet.
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It would have been an inalienable human right.
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So in this next clip, Alex yells, Alex yells a bunch and I should say that a good bit of
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this episode that I've just fucking cut out cause I don't really give a shit is him yelling
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about how Obama, uh, cheated, uh, to win the 2012 election.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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It was all cheating.
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And he yells about that and some other stuff in this next clip.
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The fix was in Romney was a scam as well.
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The whole thing was rigged up one side and down the other.
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And this is a desperate establishment that knows you're waking up to them, that knows
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the gun culture is spreading and liberals are buying guns everywhere.
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It's even on television and print media.
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They're now admitting this.
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And so they're panicking, desperately saying, oh, conservatism is dead.
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Libertarianism is dead.
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Oh, freedom's dead.
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Everyone's embracing collectivism.
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No, it's not.
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They're trying to shove a fraud.
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The dinosaur corporate state run media is dying.
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They're panicking.
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They stole the election.
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They're in deep trouble.
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We're winning.
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Don't believe their hoax.
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We're winning.
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We're winning.
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We're winning.
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We're winning.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:17.920)
That, uh, outro music started too early.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:20.480)
I think you mistimed that break a little bit.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:22.079)
Yeah, I don't think you did great on that one.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:23.519)
No, a little bit, uh, doth protest, uh, a little much in that, uh, that, but, but all
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the things that he's saying are also things that would lead you to believe that Sandy
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hook was fake.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:36.639)
You know, like all of it, the, the, the, the corporate media is dying.
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They need stuff like this.
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Obama cheated.
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They're desperate.
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They're panicking.
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All that stuff.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:46.480)
What is the action you're implying they would take if they were panicking?
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Exactly.
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Faking a school shooting.
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Agreed.
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Absolutely.
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If the, if you're saying that the old mainstream media is, is not, is, is in crisis because
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they know of the gun because they know that even liberals who still believe in the mainstream
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media are buying guns, then they have to create this situation in order to get the liberals
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to stop buying guns.
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Extreme.
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Take them away from the Patriots.
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Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:19.440)
Yeah, sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:20.480)
Every part of this is like, it's, it's very much a, where there's smoke, uh, there's,
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they faked Sandy hook.
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I mean, he literally said where there's smoke, there's fire.
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Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:33.039)
And this is still the tease, but the tease has changed.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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That's the thing that I think that's most interesting from this Friday to Sunday jump
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is that the tease was so, I don't think Alex was even in control of it necessarily.
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The, based on like, I would say just based on the fact that you and I were so like, well,
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maybe what he's doing is this on, on Friday.
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And now on Sunday, I think we're on much solid or ground that it's, there's a tease.
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I know that my audience is going to understand that I don't trust what's going on.
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Even if I say, I believe the mainstream story.
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Right, right, right, right.
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But who gives a shit?
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Let's talk guns.
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He is, that is how he finds his bearings.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:14.159)
Yeah, he is doing something I would say could be considered calculated in that, unlike with
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the previous episode, he's not kind of all over the map.
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True.
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In this episode, he's specifically pointing out, it's almost like he's building a case.
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Like he's specifically pointing out the motivations of different groups.
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Like the UN is doing this, the mainstream media is doing this, and he's trying to build
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this case against each one of them so that his conclusion then can be pointed back to
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all of them.
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But I don't know how much of that is intentional and how much of that is just the result of
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he's had to sit with this for a couple of days and he's more ready to talk than he was on
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Friday.
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That's a fair point.
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He got blindsided in the middle of the show with this news on Friday.
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And now he's had time to like have a meeting with Buckley or whatever and figure out like,
Unknown Speaker (01:00:06.320)
all right, what's important here?
Unknown Speaker (01:00:07.840)
First off, those are some dope beats.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:09.760)
Well, for years, you've been screaming about people taking your guns.
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Obviously, people are having a conversation about gun control in the aftermath of the
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shooting.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:17.280)
So just do that and we'll figure out where to go from there.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:20.320)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:20.639)
So now he knows that much and he can do this.
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And you see it in other places throughout, like with the Prozac head stuff.
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He has a built-in narrative about people taking psych medications, making them kill people,
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stuff like that.
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Throw that in.
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He has the MIAC report.
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Throw that in and turn it from the MIAC report to a federal report.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:41.519)
And they're doing it on everybody.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:43.199)
Well, the DHS report was that other one we talked about.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:46.079)
Right, right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:46.719)
I know what you're saying.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:47.599)
But the MIAC has a great name.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:49.280)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:49.599)
MIAC has a much better name.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:54.559)
It's interesting because when he needs to pull from the well, those are the things he
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pulls from.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:59.840)
You know, there's an implicit vaccine narrative that he's throwing out.
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There's the psych meds narrative.
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There's the MIAC narrative.
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There's the gun-grabbing narrative.
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And so you have all of these standard expected pieces of Alex's rhetoric.
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But he adds in, because it's a school shooting and stuff like that, the video games.
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Right.
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And he gets back to it in this next clip.
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See, I'm here for we the people.
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And I'm not a collectivist.
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And because some serotonin reuptake inhibitor, Prozac, Ritalin head, Goth, video game punk.
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I'm not calling to ban your video games.
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I'm not calling to ban your Prozac.
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But we should do that before we ban guns.
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So, I mean, that implies that I'm more fine with banning video games and Prozac before
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I am guns.
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Which means you're kind of okay with banning those.
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Pretty much means that exactly.
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It means at least that they aren't absolutes for him.
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I'm a libertarian, but there's some wiggle room.
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There's some versions of entertainment that I think should be prohibited.
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Yeah.
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Why is everybody...
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I get the Columbine thing, but come on, man.
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Goth kids are cool.
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Yeah.
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Goth kids are fine.
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Yeah.
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They weird out adults.
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Yeah.
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And I understand why you can't connect.
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It's hard.
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I get it.
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It's hard.
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It's the same thing with video games.
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It's like we didn't grow up with video games, so we can't understand them.
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Each generation has that subculture that you just can't understand unless you're a part
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of it or around it a lot.
Unknown Speaker (01:02:31.119)
Right.
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The point is Alex keeps bringing up video games.
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Yes.
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He keeps bringing up video games because it is some sort of a trigger for him.
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Right.
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It's not frequently a part of his rhetoric, but it is now two days later.
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He wasn't talking much about video games on Friday because he didn't know who the guy
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was.
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Now that he's in the age subset that he would associate with this part of his brain pointing
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finger at video games, it's huge to him.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:01.599)
Yeah.
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And he says this in this next clip.
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I couldn't beat link to the past.
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I don't even.
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I think he was a pong guy.
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That's not fair.
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He's only 10 years older than me.
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I know he's not that old.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:13.679)
No, but that means he would have been playing like Atari or something.
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Or no, that's not fair.
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I don't know.
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My timeline's all fucked up because my parents wouldn't let me have video games.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:21.280)
I bet he played Goldeneye at least once.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:23.360)
Yeah, but he would have been 30, 20.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:26.079)
I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (01:03:27.599)
Okay.
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Most people don't have a killer instinct.
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First person shooter games were developed in the 60s by the Department of Defense for
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instinctive killing.
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You know, to where you just instantly do it.
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Police are trained to do this now.
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So the point is you get an autistic person who's an idiot savant.
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He was reportedly highly intelligent who is obsessive.
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He got obsessed with guns and shoot-em-ups and was reportedly under psychiatric care.
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The treatment for that is psychotropic.
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So you give someone a killer, now listen, it could have been a government op.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:00.559)
They're reporting people in the woods, another guy arrested.
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So at the end there, that spinning into that shit is no good.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:07.360)
Your favorite movies are John Wayne movies.
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What are you talking about?
Unknown Speaker (01:04:12.880)
Shoot-em-up games are a problem.
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He's in some hot water right here.
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I hear John Wayne isn't as cool as everyone thought he was.
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What a surprise.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:20.880)
Oh no.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:21.840)
So, but he's talking about video games and like these shoot-em-up games were created
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by the Department of Defense and all this stuff.
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And interestingly, Alex is kind of right about that, but he's also kind of wrong in
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terms of the video games of the Department of Defense and the Pentagon.
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What he's right about is that DOD funding was involved with some of the earliest video
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games, like back in the 1950s.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:43.840)
Well, there's a man named William Higginbotham who worked at Brookhaven National Lab, and
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he created a game called Tennis for Two on some of the early computers that they had
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there to try and make their lab more interesting to visitors.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:04:56.079)
It's basically an early version of Pong.
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Right.
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His salary at the lab was paid for by the government, and so you can make the argument
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that they helped create video games just from that.
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Yeah.
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Then in 1993, the Marines noticed the rising popularity of Doom, and they wanted to see
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if there were ways to use the new technology to help supplement their training regimen,
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particularly because it would be way cheaper than what they had been doing previously.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:19.119)
Yeah, I was going to say, they're playing the last Starfighter game.
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Like, they're doing that whole thing.
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Training simulations in terms of, like, what they were working with in order to create
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a facsimile of a 3D environment and stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:31.119)
Right.
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They had to have, like, boxes that would shake and, like, go on Star Tours.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:35.519)
Of course.
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It's basically that.
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That's way more expensive than just developing a software or whatever that is a simulation.
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The Marines made adjustments to Doom 2 to try and make it work for their purposes, but
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the finished product was never officially used for training.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:49.519)
It was called Wolfenstein.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:50.880)
It was called, I think it was actually called Marine Doom, which is not a great name.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:55.679)
It's not a great name.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:56.639)
It might have had a slightly different name, but it was Marine something.
Unknown Speaker (01:05:59.199)
Could not be less creative than Marine blank.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:02.239)
It's not the games themselves that have application for training, and thus explain
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the reason that the Pentagon has for a long time been funding the underlying research.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:11.199)
It's the technology that is used to make the video games.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:14.639)
For instance, with Doom, it was the innovation of navigating a 3D environment.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:19.280)
With shooting games, it's the collaborative team elements that you can recreate and the
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need for immediate decision making that's built into the structure of the games.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:27.840)
So those sorts of things are very big innovations in technology simulating.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:34.239)
Like that sort of computing simulation.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:36.800)
It's not that the games themselves are training you.
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That's important.
Unknown Speaker (01:06:41.840)
It's an important distinction.
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If we have soldiers who are doing this stuff in real life, what if we also had them play
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Counter-Strike and did that?
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And learn how to look around corners or whatever it is.
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But that's the thing.
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That's not what they do.
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That's not what they do.
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They have used the technologies that have been developed by the development of these
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games, which is why they invest in a lot of video game companies.
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Like THQ made a bunch of money on government contracts and stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:14.880)
Because what the game development allows by the breakthroughs that they make are the training
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things that the government and the military and the marines can use get to use those technologies.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:29.760)
Right.
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If that makes sense.
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Like a flight simulator.
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Yes.
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Like when pilots are in those giant...
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:36.559)
This is such an important distinction.
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What drives the game and what is behind it is not what they're interested in.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:46.320)
They're not interested in like Breath of the Wild being open world.
Unknown Speaker (01:07:53.599)
They don't want to train people to look out for enemies or whatever by playing Breath
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of the Wild.
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They're interested in the breakthroughs in technology that they can apply to their own
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simulations.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:07.760)
Like drones and shit like that?
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Like the movie Toys?
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Not necessarily...
Unknown Speaker (01:08:12.719)
I don't know why I'm doing so many movie references.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:14.880)
Not necessarily to drone attacks or something like that.
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Although there is an interesting wrinkle with that.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:20.640)
But it's more to what they're able to do with the simulations that they do use for training
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inside the army.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:29.760)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:30.000)
They don't make people play Call of Duty to train them to go to war.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:33.680)
Right, right, right.
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They use technology breakthroughs that are part of the creation of those games in order
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to use in their own way.
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In order to amplify their own pre-existing simulations.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:45.520)
Gotcha.
Unknown Speaker (01:08:46.319)
As technology has gotten so much better and as the video games, the controls of them have
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developed over the years, you are essentially able to create something that is very similar
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to flying a plane that you don't have to fly a plane to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:02.399)
Right.
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That is in everyone's best interest from a financial standpoint, from a safety standpoint.
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Right.
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Even though learning to fly a plane apparently isn't as hard as everyone thinks.
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And that's why everybody in the Marines thinks that Ebony is an ore and a metal because they
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play Skyrim all the goddamn time.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:18.800)
Not sure Skyrim has many training applications, but the point is that is an important distinction
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to bring in about the difference between what the DOD and the Pentagon were interested in
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in terms of video games as opposed to how Alex is presenting it.
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He's presenting it as they paid all this money in order for these games to get created so
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everyone would play them and it'd be shoot them up and then they'd all be ready to kill.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:42.960)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I got you.
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Like in toys.
Unknown Speaker (01:09:45.520)
That is an infantile fucking stupid way to look at this when you look at where the money
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is, what they would be interested in.
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And I'm not saying that I necessarily think that it's a great thing because I think that
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the military does do a lot of bad stuff.
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Evil.
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But I also think that in terms of if you're going to train people anyway, doing it that
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way, paying for so many video games I've gotten such enjoyment out of probably only existed
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because of technology that there was underlying funding from the government in order to create.
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The internet, et cetera.
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Right.
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So I don't know, it's more complicated.
Unknown Speaker (01:10:24.560)
I get it.
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Anyway, no matter how many times Alex has seen The Last Starfighter, which you mentioned
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earlier, this is just not how it works.
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There's no intrinsic training that you get from playing a first person shooter that you
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wouldn't get from playing Tetris in terms of decision making.
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All of those snap decisions and stuff like that that are created by like a first person
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shooter game where someone's coming at you, you got to shoot them.
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It's the exact same thing as like you got to flip that block.
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It's the same part of your brain in terms of that stuff.
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You don't experience a desensitization about death from video games unless you were probably
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already on that path to begin with for any number of possible reasons.
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That is not about the video game.
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It's about the person who's experiencing the game.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:05.039)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:05.439)
And if you are a libertarian, that should be a big consideration for you.
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I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies.
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I have never once considered killing a human being.
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Absolutely.
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The more important aspect of the military in video games is that they found that they're
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way more effective as a recruiting tool than as a training instrument.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:24.079)
And that's their largest interest these days at least.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:26.479)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:26.960)
Games like the Call of Duty, all those games are essentially propaganda to a certain extent.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:33.520)
And they were way worse like a decade or two ago.
Unknown Speaker (01:11:37.439)
Some of the games that were coming out were like overt army propaganda games.
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Anyway, another thing that Alex doesn't consider is that the investment that the military has
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put into the development of these technologies has other applications as well.
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For instance, doctors are able to use simulations in controlled therapeutic environments to help
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returning soldiers who are experiencing PTSD.
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It's obviously not a perfect treatment at this point, but it's shown a lot of promise
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in terms of helping soldiers deal with traumatic events and manage negative emotions.
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So there is that payoff that comes from the investment that they have in the technology also.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:12.319)
So all of this is to say that Alex is fucking stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:15.359)
He is dealing with this on a one-dimensional scale as opposed to thinking about like,
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huh, what were they doing?
Unknown Speaker (01:12:22.319)
Why? It is weird that a lot of video game history has the government funding behind it.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:29.039)
But if you just scratch beneath the surface a tiny bit, it's not nefarious.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:33.840)
It's nefarious if you think that the military just wants to kill people in other countries.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:37.760)
And that argument I'll hear.
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I'll hear that argument.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:41.279)
But in terms of like trying to train the culture in order to be
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dumb, dumb serial killers who will go around and shoot people, that's fucking stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:49.119)
That is on the level of the satanic panic argument.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:52.399)
Yeah. Agreed.
Unknown Speaker (01:12:54.000)
It's weird to...
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I suppose it's not invalidating, but it is weird to say that
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violent video games can be a therapeutic element for...
Unknown Speaker (01:13:06.560)
No, no, no, no, not violent video games.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:08.319)
No.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:08.640)
Just the technology that was developed.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:10.319)
Right. No, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:11.279)
I mean, for soldiers returning...
Unknown Speaker (01:13:12.800)
No, that's what I'm saying.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:13.600)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:13.760)
It's not violent.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:14.479)
Right, right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:15.039)
Okay. I apologize.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:16.000)
Not necessarily violent.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:17.359)
Right. But it is strange for video game technology to be both a therapeutic element
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and at the same time the element that people use to desensitize people to violence.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:30.560)
Do you know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:13:31.439)
But I'm not sure...
Unknown Speaker (01:13:32.000)
But it's not an invalidating argument because...
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But I also don't think that the way that the military uses the technology and the
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simulations that they create, I don't think it's to desensitize people to violence.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:43.600)
Oh, of course not.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:44.560)
I think it's...
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I'm just saying that his argument that it is that is...
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Fair.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:49.920)
You know, it's kind of...
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And again, things can be both a double-edged sword.
Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.119)
That's not unreasonable to say, but it is hard to make that argument without at the
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same time making that connection.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:07.199)
Well, he doesn't care.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:07.600)
You know what I'm saying?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.560)
No, of course he doesn't care.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:09.600)
He doesn't care.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:10.159)
His argument is, I think that this guy was set up by the globalists and I'm going to
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find the thinnest straws to pull at in order to make that argument.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:23.520)
One of them is video games and I have a built-in narrative.
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I just don't think it's come up any time that we've been covering him.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:30.560)
I think this is probably a narrative of his that's probably existed since Columbine.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:35.039)
For sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:35.520)
Probably his entire career in terms of the Department of Defense created video games
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in order to sensitize people to violence, blah, blah, blah.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:43.359)
I think that's probably a major narrative he doesn't pull out very often because it's
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not often all that applicable.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:49.359)
And so we hear it now and...
Unknown Speaker (01:14:52.079)
What if somebody just taught him how to play Minecraft?
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Do you think he would feel differently about video games?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:57.039)
This show is over.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:58.000)
Video games?
Unknown Speaker (01:14:58.560)
This show is over.
Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.279)
He's just going to be creating weird things.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:02.720)
I'm going to recreate the Alamo in Minecraft.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.239)
I'm going to play out the life of Colonel Travis.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:10.079)
Yeah, give him Sim Farm and tell him to go fuck himself.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:15.359)
Enjoy this pretend lifestyle you wish you were living.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:18.239)
Yeah, what if somebody just gave him Sim City early enough where he was like,
Unknown Speaker (01:15:23.119)
well, I'll take all these conspiracy theories and create my own world.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:26.479)
And oh my God, this happens naturally.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:29.119)
I will simulate exactly what I think is going on.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:33.439)
That's why...
Unknown Speaker (01:15:34.159)
I will simulate what my enemies want to do and then flash forward to a prosperous city.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:38.720)
Yeah, it would be interesting to have him play the latest expansion of Civ 6,
Unknown Speaker (01:15:43.199)
which includes climate change.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:45.039)
Oh, it does?
Unknown Speaker (01:15:45.760)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:46.720)
Includes the climate change as like one of the elemental things that you have to deal with.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:50.960)
Sadly, not available on the Switch.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:52.720)
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:54.640)
I haven't played it either.
Unknown Speaker (01:15:55.520)
Um, so I don't know. My point is that it's interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:00.239)
I think we got a new wrinkle of his narratives that is sort of more elusive
Unknown Speaker (01:16:05.199)
that was driven out of its little hole, little hidey hole by this school shooting.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:10.960)
That's good. That's worth something.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:14.000)
Anyway, we have one more clip and Alex gets a call
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and this caller says that it's fake, that the shooting was fake.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:20.479)
Of course.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:21.439)
Alex, his response is interesting.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:24.239)
And I think that there's volumes within this 30-second clip.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:29.359)
Let's go to Julio in Illinois.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:31.199)
Julio, real fast.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:33.359)
You know, what would drive the son whose father was the vice president
Unknown Speaker (01:16:40.479)
and tax director of General Electric Energy Financial Services,
Unknown Speaker (01:16:45.119)
the Connecticut shooter, if that was the VP?
Unknown Speaker (01:16:48.640)
No, no, he grew up in a multi-million dollar a year family.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:51.920)
And I tell you the whole, look, I'm not going to go there, but it looks suspicious.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:56.319)
I'd rather debate it on the facts that I can prove.
Unknown Speaker (01:16:58.640)
But look, I smell something when it's rotten, brother.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:02.000)
God damn it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.439)
That is the worst fucking response possible because that guy is,
Unknown Speaker (01:17:06.960)
that caller is expressing things that are a big part of the Sandy Hook is fake world.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.399)
And I assume Alex is probably going to run with in the future.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:16.239)
And his response is to cut him off and be like, I don't want to go there.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:20.319)
But also I smell something when it's rotten.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:23.039)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:23.119)
So it's like, I don't want to go there, but I'll still insinuate.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.479)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:26.800)
And that is bad.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:28.000)
But it's where he's at.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:29.359)
That's the thing that he's going to point to for sure with his, we just had debates on it.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:34.640)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:34.880)
Argument is like, I would rather debate this on the facts.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:38.880)
And it's like, no, you wouldn't.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:40.640)
But he also hasn't been using facts.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:42.239)
Of course not.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:43.520)
Facts are a bummer.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:44.800)
Facts really break up his entire momentum.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:47.520)
They're a big problem.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:48.399)
Every time you bring facts into it, Alex Jones, his whole worldview falls apart.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:52.640)
Totally, totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:17:54.000)
But again, in the same way that like you see glimmers of what I think he wishes he had done.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:00.560)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:01.760)
In these episodes.
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And what I think maybe is his spiritual memory of what he did, I think it's entirely possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:07.600)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:08.079)
That response to that caller still could be depicted as we heard both sides.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:14.239)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:14.640)
Or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:15.279)
Right, right, right, right.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:15.760)
His response even being like, I don't want to go there, but it looks bad, looks suspicious.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:23.039)
He knows that the end result of that is the audience will
Unknown Speaker (01:18:26.399)
fucking ignore the I don't want to go there and hear that this is suspicious part.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:31.920)
But in terms of things that we can really nail to the wall, he's not super out of line yet,
Unknown Speaker (01:18:38.960)
except for all of the other stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.520)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.680)
Does that make sense?
Unknown Speaker (01:18:42.399)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:43.359)
In terms of what we're looking at in Sandy Hook stuff, he's very clearly signaling what
Unknown Speaker (01:18:49.680)
he wants to do and where he's at, but he hasn't said the things we need yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:18:54.319)
It is like he is living in a world where he can win that lawsuit.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:00.159)
He can win the current lawsuit.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.079)
If he is just this guy in 2012 for these two days, then when they sue him, he can say,
Unknown Speaker (01:19:10.079)
hey, and back up, I didn't say this was fake.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:14.560)
I only wanted to have debates.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:16.960)
I had my suspicions because I'm who I am.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:21.039)
But in the world we live in now, he done fucked up.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:24.560)
And even he knows almost certainly that he done fucked up.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:28.800)
Well, and what's interesting, too, is that Alex now, like his version of it is so much
Unknown Speaker (01:19:32.800)
like I had the right to question things.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:34.800)
They had babies and incubators and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:36.880)
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:37.760)
But he's not using those arguments now.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:41.199)
He's not talking about like how there were babies and incubators that they said were
Unknown Speaker (01:19:45.439)
being kicked out and stuff like the things that he uses to defend himself for why he
Unknown Speaker (01:19:50.159)
was questioning Sandy Hook.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:52.239)
As Sandy Hook is unfolding, he's not talking about those things, but he's still clearly
Unknown Speaker (01:19:57.359)
questioning it.
Unknown Speaker (01:19:58.239)
He knows that he doesn't need to defend himself.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:01.199)
And it's super, it's just crazy interesting to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:04.159)
I know that there's a part of it that I have to detach a tiny bit of humanity.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:07.680)
Yeah, myself.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:08.479)
In order to go through all this.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:10.159)
But this this does have the feel of somebody in in in the moment.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:19.119)
This has the feel of somebody who thinks he has to be the guy who says this probably isn't
Unknown Speaker (01:20:25.600)
real.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:26.159)
Like he feels like he has a responsibility to his listeners to pretend that this to imply
Unknown Speaker (01:20:33.600)
that this isn't real.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:34.800)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:35.359)
He doesn't feel like it's not real yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:38.239)
You know, do you know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker (01:20:39.680)
Like this is this is the this is the Alex Jones in a lawsuit who can say or whose lawyer
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can say this is an act.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:48.399)
This is this is Alex Jones, the presenter who has to do the things that he does for
Unknown Speaker (01:20:55.680)
his show.
Unknown Speaker (01:20:56.239)
But he wouldn't have to defend himself about the behavior over the last two episodes that
Unknown Speaker (01:21:00.560)
we've listened to.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:01.439)
Of course.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:01.920)
Like, I don't think that there's anything in there that's legally actionable.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:05.680)
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:06.479)
And if we didn't know that he eventually says the things he does.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:10.319)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:10.720)
It would be like, huh?
Unknown Speaker (01:21:13.600)
Alex is walking a fine line.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:15.600)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:15.920)
He's irresponsible here, but he's kind of right.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:20.000)
He didn't say it was fake.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:21.199)
He just keeps replying it's fake, which that's on the side of free speech.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:24.960)
You can do whatever you want to do.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:26.319)
You're a dick to do it, but you did whatever.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:29.680)
I mean, I don't.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:30.640)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:32.479)
This is the this is the Alex Jones that they want to present that his lawyers want to present
Unknown Speaker (01:21:39.039)
in court when we know that the Alex Jones that's real is the one from 2015 saying it's
Unknown Speaker (01:21:45.119)
fake or in a couple episodes on this show.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:48.000)
Yes, entirely possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:49.600)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:21:49.920)
And the other thing that I need to bring into really sharp focus is because I got some feedback
Unknown Speaker (01:21:54.319)
from the last episode about, like, you need to talk to Sandy Hook lawyers about this and
Unknown Speaker (01:21:59.600)
stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:00.399)
I've gotten a couple emails about that.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:02.399)
And one of the reasons that first of all, I will never do that is because why second
Unknown Speaker (01:22:07.680)
they know this.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:08.720)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:08.960)
And then third, everything that we're talking about is outside of the statute of limitations.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:14.159)
Even him in 2015 saying it was synthetic completely.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:17.760)
There were actors.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:18.800)
I thought there were kids who died there, but it turns out there weren't all that shit
Unknown Speaker (01:22:23.279)
that is still outside the statute of limitations for defamation.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:26.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:27.600)
In the jurisdictions he's being sued in.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:29.840)
So there isn't a real productive reason to bring this to the conversation.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:34.720)
And they would be inadmissible anyway.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:37.680)
And they know.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:38.720)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:39.760)
These are episodes that you can find them online.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:42.880)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:42.960)
It's not like I had to dig through the crates like I'm DJ Z-Trip or something.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:48.319)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:49.039)
Random DJ.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:49.760)
That's a weird name to bring up, but I'm cool with that.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:53.439)
Shadow.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:54.399)
Okay, that's better.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:55.279)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:55.600)
There you go.
Unknown Speaker (01:22:56.079)
DJ Koze, he's in the news last year.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:00.960)
Last year.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:01.520)
He had one of the top 20 albums of last year.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:05.359)
All right.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:05.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:06.239)
Good on him.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:06.880)
It's good.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:07.439)
But I didn't have to dig too far to find these things.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:10.399)
It's like it's available.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:11.520)
And I believe that anybody doing their due diligence, if they're suing Alex Jones about
Unknown Speaker (01:23:16.079)
what he said about Sandy Hook, they know what the fuck he said at this time.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:21.600)
They know it's not legally actionable, but it's important for their case so they would
Unknown Speaker (01:23:26.800)
know these things.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:27.199)
To be aware of it.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:28.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:28.720)
So I don't have any real interest in that angle of this.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:33.760)
This is entirely human and intellectual based.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:37.199)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:37.840)
Just understanding what he was doing, how his brain works, how does a person fall into
Unknown Speaker (01:23:45.359)
that deep of a hole?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:46.720)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:47.359)
How do you go from this point where it's clear that he recognizes that people died to whatever
Unknown Speaker (01:23:53.760)
version of the conspiracy he lands on first?
Unknown Speaker (01:23:56.159)
That's what I'm more interested in.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:57.039)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:23:57.840)
As much as I want our show to be successful in the present, because I really would like
Unknown Speaker (01:24:06.399)
that, not stoked about a day job, but there is also a certain aspect of this that I find
Unknown Speaker (01:24:14.479)
so relevant to posterity.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:18.960)
It's also relevant to right now.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:20.720)
When the fish people take over in about 15, 25 years, I hope they listen to the show and
Unknown Speaker (01:24:29.039)
recognize what propaganda-
Unknown Speaker (01:24:29.760)
You mean the citizens of Innsmouth?
Unknown Speaker (01:24:31.199)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:34.399)
And at that point, when the deep ones, they come and take over, Alex's RSS feed will be
Unknown Speaker (01:24:43.039)
dead by then.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:43.600)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:43.840)
So we want to be able to find out what he said.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:47.359)
Great graphic novel, The Deep.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:49.760)
Fantastic.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:50.640)
This is another thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:52.800)
It's very foreign territory for us to jump into another investigation, because these
Unknown Speaker (01:24:58.640)
things that we've done have taken so long.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:02.720)
They end up being tons and tons of episodes.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:04.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:05.760)
We're used to knowing a whole lot more and there being larger context to a ton of stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:11.359)
Whereas now we're on the second episode, the second day of looking at this December 2012
Unknown Speaker (01:25:18.079)
stuff, it's more foreign territory.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:23.039)
So even though we know Alex Jones, there's so much more that we got to get our feet under
Unknown Speaker (01:25:28.720)
us a little bit.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:29.840)
And I don't think we're 100% there yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:32.399)
We're still doing too much speculating, which I don't think is wrong.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:36.319)
I don't think it's bad of us, but it's not where I want to be.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:40.399)
But it's the essential piece of getting in the pool.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:44.079)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:45.920)
You never know what you're diving into.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:48.560)
We've committed to the jump.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:50.640)
We'll find out what the water's like when we get in.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:53.199)
It's just that it's dead center in between our 2009 investigation and our 2015 investigation.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:00.880)
And yet somehow this is a completely different thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:05.359)
And yet it's the same thing.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:07.199)
Like all I care about is guns, is so many of the same built-in essential narratives
Unknown Speaker (01:26:12.720)
about distrusting psych meds and vaccines and stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:18.159)
So there's a lot of familiar territory we can use to orient ourselves.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:21.840)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:22.319)
It's the tone.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:23.119)
But the tone is different.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:24.960)
The tone is different.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:26.960)
The response to severe circumstances is different.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:32.000)
And just who he is at this point is different.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:35.439)
Because we haven't heard from him in a couple of years at this point when we're jumping in.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:42.000)
So we will learn more.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:43.920)
We will experience this.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:45.279)
And I'm glad it's not ugly yet, but it's going to be.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:49.439)
I'm sure it will.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:50.720)
But we'll catch you next time.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:52.159)
Maybe another fucking Sandy Hook episode on Monday.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:54.880)
We'll find out.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:55.920)
It depends.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:56.880)
It'll probably be.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:59.119)
So anyway, before that, until then, we have a website.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:02.239)
We do have a website.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:03.279)
It's knowledgefight.com.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:05.359)
That's great.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:05.760)
We're also on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:07.439)
If you are a big John Wayne fan, it's also fillyourhand.com.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:13.439)
That's right.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:15.279)
I think we got to get rid of that now.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:19.039)
Bad news about John Wayne.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:21.359)
Got to get rid of that redirect.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:23.279)
But our Twitter page is at knowledge underscore fight.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:26.960)
You're correct.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:27.439)
We're also on Facebook.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:28.319)
We are on Facebook.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:29.279)
We have a group called Go Home and Tell Your Mother You're Brilliant,
Unknown Speaker (01:27:31.439)
which is filled with fantastic people.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:34.720)
And we hope that it can remain a safe time.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:38.960)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:39.439)
We are also on iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:40.560)
We are on iTunes.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:41.279)
It's not a safe space.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:42.239)
It's a nightmare for you.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:44.880)
But you can leave a review, subscribe, all that good stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:47.840)
Indeed.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:48.479)
But I don't know, man.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:50.319)
You look at this.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:51.039)
I don't know if Alex talked about anybody but himself and a literal murderer.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:55.760)
He did mention Lanza.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:57.119)
You know what?
Unknown Speaker (01:27:57.600)
I will say this.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:58.800)
I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:01.600)
Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:02.079)
I've killed a lot of mio nectans in the video game world.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:06.960)
Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:07.760)
But I've never killed a guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:09.920)
No, I know one guy who has technically probably in the real world.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:14.880)
Oh, no.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:15.680)
May have killed a guy.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:16.800)
That's Alex Jones.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:17.760)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:18.720)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:19.199)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:21.760)
Hello, Alex.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:22.479)
I'm a first time caller.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:23.359)
I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:24.159)
I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:25.039)
I love you.
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