Transcript/842: Amanda Moore Returns
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Hello Alex, I'm a first-time caller, I'm a huge fan
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I love your work
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knowledgefight
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knowledgefight.com
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I love you
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Hello everyone, welcome to Knowledge Fight
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Unfortunately I am alone again without my co-host Dan
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However, I am today joined by Amanda Moore
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Thank you so much for coming onto the show
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Thanks for having me
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Amanda, you are famous now I think for
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Well, obviously there's the undercover stuff
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But I read in a piece a couple of years ago
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I think it was that you investigated, in your own words
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Gold Diggers' boyfriends?
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Yeah, I used to do that
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Okay, so that's what this interview is entirely about
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I understand you were on January 6th
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You did undercover stuff, I understand all of that
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All I want to know
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I wonder how many of those boyfriends were also on January 6th
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In retrospect
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Isn't that the question?
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No
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So, yes, no, please
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You just have a piece that just came out in The Nation
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Could you kind of give our listeners a little bit of a background for you
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During the pandemic, your job was like most everybody else's busted, right?
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Yeah
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And then you decided to go undercover
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Yeah
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Everybody was doing something during the pandemic, you know?
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I'd always wanted to be a writer or a journalist, but it pays shit
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But when your job is gone, it doesn't matter anymore
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Yeah, whatever it pays shit, then it doesn't matter what you do
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So I went to the Stop the Steal rallies
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I'd always get gone, I live in D.C.
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So I'd always get gone to, like, Laura Loomer gave us the one hinged rally behind my office one day
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And I went to that and just kind of observed
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Like, you know, I had a blog I would write on, and I was like, well, maybe I'll sell some audio
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Maybe I'll sell, like, a blog post or something, maybe, you know, whatever
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We'll see, we'll see what happens
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All of a sudden, everyone's storming the Capitol
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I'm like, I think this is a lot bigger than a blog post
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And the rest is history
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I do appreciate that in this one situation
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We're not dealing with, like, a jump cut that's a family guy reference
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Like, oh, the next thing you know, people are overrunning the Capitol
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Oh, that happened
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That's where you were
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Yeah, that's where I was, yeah, it was wild
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It was really wild, too, because, you know, that summer
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Back in, like, 2014 and 15, I'd been to a lot of Black Lives Matter protests, especially up in Baltimore
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And I didn't go to so many in 2020 because I was super depressed and broken
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Just, like, generally unhappy internally
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But I went to one, and it happened to be the one where the president tear gassed everybody
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So he could hold a Bible upside down for a photo op
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Right, right
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We're, like, marched to the Capitol and nothing's going on
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And I'm like, wow, I remember when we were just standing
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We were tear gassed
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And here we go today, straight on, straight on inside
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I mean, I did not go inside
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I wanted to, but a reporter I know ran into me and he was like, you're not going inside
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You're actually leaving now, we're leaving
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Yeah, I don't know, I wonder if you're, like, no, I was going undercover for blog posts
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Would sell if you were right next to Stuart Rhodes on the stand, you know?
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I just met the guy, I don't know
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Listen, I was undercover to do a thing!
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So I was wondering, as we go back through this, right
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So, as you just pointed out, you know, in the 2014-2015 area
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You're going through a, well, we're all going through a period where, you know, black lives
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run out of protests, we're fighting all of those things
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Just a few years before that, you know, relatively speaking, you're in more January 6 people
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territory again, you know?
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So you grew up in an environment that led you to be a libertarian at 12, or if that's
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what I read correctly, right?
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Yeah, I read a Larry Elder book, and I became a libertarian at 12
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So don't let your kids read Larry Elder, that's the moral of the story here
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Don't let it happen
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Larry Elder and the Sorcerer's Stone was my favorite book, but next time I think he's
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gonna have to step up his game
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If JK can meet him on transphobia now, we're in real trouble
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Yeah, but tell me a little bit more about growing up like that, because I feel like
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your childhood kind of informed your ability to chameleon yourself into the far right that
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easily, right?
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Yeah, for sure, so my dad is still in the evangelical sex with Christianity, that's
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what I grew up in, you know, my dad's pastor right now raises people from the dead, has
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a mega church, all that good stuff.
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And so, you know, I broke my arm when I was undercover, and I was at a QAnon conference
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and people were praying in tongues on my arm, and like, afterwards, people were like, how
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did you deal with that?
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And I'm like, you've never heard someone praying in tongues before?
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Weird.
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Totally, I know, what's funny about that is I was at a God camp when I was 15, I was working
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a God camp, I broke my arm, and you better believe I got some prayer over it in tongues.
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So yeah, yeah, I'm right there with you.
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That was everybody.
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Yeah, and my mom is a two time Obama voter who also voted for Trump twice, yeah, she's
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the one, she's the only one in America, the New York Times did an interview on just her
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and they'll probably get her now.
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So you know, my mom was also like an envious, I kind of like had a foot in each world growing
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up, and then I've always loved politics, I've always loved writing, and so, you know, libertarianism
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was like huge, like I mean, the Black Lives Matter marches in 2014 and 15, and then Trump
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becoming the de facto libertarian candidate, or why I left the party, and it was like a
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gradual, the same way like leaving religion took a few years, it was like, oh, I'm, I'm
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not religious, or I'm a religious, I'm non-denominational, I'm agnostic, I'm a fucking atheist, I'm not
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an atheist.
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It's the same thing with like the libertarian party, and like it was like, I don't like
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how we're handling Black Lives Matter, and I don't like how we're handling these things,
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and then Trump came down the escalator, and Gary Johnson, people didn't like him, they
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liked Trump over Gary Johnson, and I was, you know, it took several years to walk away
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completely but I did, and so, but all these things, you know, because there is a direct
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libertarian to alt-right pipeline, there's a direct libertarian to inside the Capitol
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pipeline as it were, and so, yeah, I think that's kind of what prepared me, it's also
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why I was interested in it.
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Yeah, I mean, one of the, what was it, one of the lines, let me see if I can't find it,
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I believe it was Nelson, maybe?
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Alex Nelson was talking to a recruiter for the Patriot Front website, and the recruiter
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said at one point like, keep at conservatism in a wink wink, that'll get you to anti-Semitism
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kind of thing, you know, hey, keep at it kid, eventually you'll hate the Jews, right?
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And it is very much like the way you just described it, it's so much like, wow, the
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libertarian party isn't so much a party as it is a conveyor belt to problems.
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Yeah, and you know, I mean, something could have been done about that, and you look at,
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it's like the former head of the party, like the guys that, one of the guys I know to cover,
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Shane Trejo, used to like, make this guy's life hell, Nick, his name is Nick, and like
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he would write all these articles about Nick being a cuck-servitive, a wolbertarian, all
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this stuff, and it's like, I don't, I mean, I'm not saying this is Nick's fault, but like
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on an individual level, like at the county levels where we were, and the state levels,
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you know, people will come in, it's like, that guy's a fucking Nazi, and you know, it's
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like, oh, you can't just call people Nazis, we're not the left, and it's like, well, he
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just did a Hitler salute, like a Nazi, you know, and it's like, oh, well, you know, it's
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better not to punch that way, like, we can't, you know, and it's just like, this is Nile,
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and you know, I was completely out by the time Unite the Right happened, but you know,
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I feel like if we had stood up stronger in more numbers, we could have kept them out
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of the party, and who knows, maybe I would still be a libertarian, maybe I wouldn't have
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been pushed so far to the left, kind of the opposite intent or effect of what they wanted,
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and you know, now of course we see this happening in the GOP, like the Libertarian Party is
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a disaster, you've got the Libertarian Party in New Hampshire at the state level, which
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has not been, you know, they're not defederated, they're a member of the national party, tweeting
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out the 14 words, but instead of whites, they're saying libertarians, you know, it's a joke,
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and now those same people are kind of trying to get into the GOP and do the same thing
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there.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you know, that's, that's a really interesting question as far as like, are they
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trying to get into the GOP?
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You know?
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Well I have private chats of Gavin Wax's and Shane Trejo's, I have their private chats.
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Oh, no, no, no, that's not what I mean, obviously, obviously, they're trying to do that.
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I meant the detailed blueprints.
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No, no, no, no, I'm speaking more of like, are they really trying to keep him out?
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Did they ever even really try and keep him out?
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Did they?
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Did they?
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I think now they're really going to have to come to Jesus moment because they already
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had a fraction in the GOP with Trump.
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And now I think Ukraine is probably maybe a bigger deal than like they want to admit
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because so many of the people who are running for president on the Republican ticket are
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bizarrely pro-Russia or at least not willing to condemn Russia as we saw last night at
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the debate.
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And you know, I just, I don't know, like these are things I think, you know, maybe the, maybe
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the best case scenario for us is we just have a crumbled little GOP that's like five different
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factions that are all fighting each other at all times that are great, honestly.
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I mean, it might be great electorally on a national level.
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On the other hand, it might be bad physically for all humans.
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That's true as well.
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That could be an issue for the rest of us.
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I mean, that is, that is a fascinating thing though is, and it comes up again in the, when
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you were in January 6th, you know, the way you described it, the way that the, the crowd
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was functioning, you know, there were people who saw the violence start happening and the
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cops start attacking the violent people and they were going, yeah, get them, you know,
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like not realizing that we ourselves are those violent people.
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And in the same way, this is, this is kind of another expression of that, you know, like
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we think of ourselves as the, like, we're anti, we're pro United States, Rocky IV, USA,
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you know, that whole thing.
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And yet somehow, wait a second, we're voting for the guy, we're voting for Drago.
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What's happening right now?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's, it is.
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And the disconnect too, between, I mean, just like people are not living in reality, not
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living on planet earth, you know, like, especially some of the, like, extreme Trumpers who, you
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know, it's just, how do you even talk to these people, you know, at least a regular Republican,
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you could be like, hey, here's why your economic policy is shit.
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You know, you have to be like, some of these people, you have to be like, actually, I don't
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think that Donald Trump was a time traveler.
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I think he probably doesn't travel for time, you know, it's just, it's very, it's very
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hard to,
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So, so that leads to my next question, right?
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And this is a question I ask myself pretty regularly.
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Do you think you're connected to reality?
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Do you know what I mean?
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It's hit or miss.
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You were, you were a libertarian just a short while ago.
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Did you feel like you were less connected to reality then than you are now?
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Or is it really that your relationship to reality has just changed?
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I mean, I think, so there's like multiple kinds of libertarians, right?
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There's the pedophile kind, there's the 14 words kind, I was going to go ahead and say,
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I was not the pedophile kind, or was I the 14 words kind?
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I was more like,
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You were the 14 pedophiles kind.
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Yeah, yeah, you got me.
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Don't tell Jim Soreson.
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You know, I always thought like, we should probably have schools, and roads, I think
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roads are good.
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I like roads.
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But maybe we should not have so much with war, that kind of thing, you know.
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And where programs need to exist.
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What changed for me is seeing like, I, you know, I, I think the government does a pretty
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shitty job with a lot of social welfare programs across the board.
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And but I would still, at this point, rather, they are doing it than the private sector.
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And so that's really what shifted for me, like my actual belief system of who is deserving
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of things and that kind of stuff never really changed.
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It's just where's the money coming from?
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And a lot of that, I mean, like, I remember being in Baltimore, after Freddie Gray was
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murdered, and being like, you know, looking around and being like, where the fucking libertarians
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at?
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Like, okay, like, when, when things happen, it falls on the individual to come and fix
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it.
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And that's not who's here.
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You know?
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Well, paying taxes or whatever, you know, like, well, that's not the fucking I mean,
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come on, you can't, you can't just be like, well, I'm paying taxes, I'll never get off
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my ass like it has, you have to do the work in addition to, in addition to the forced
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taxes that you're paying.
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And so, you know, that is like, what changed for me, and that is a perception of not what
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is real or what is not, but like, how, how do most people actually come to action, no
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matter how much they run their mouth, no matter how much they run their mouth about how they're
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going to be there to support inner city schools and kids, they're never gonna fucking do it.
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And so that is like, what changed for me.
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So I, you know, I don't, I've never thought Trump was a time traveler, for instance, you
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know, that kind of stuff.
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Yeah, so I guess maybe, maybe that's too many words.
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I think that's a really, really good answer.
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Because I don't know if my question was terribly clear, but you got to kind of what I was,
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what I was hoping to hear.
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The question about that, though, then is like, okay, so are you and I talking about a difference
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in orthodox libertarian belief?
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And that's the schism that led to you rejecting libertarian as a concept?
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Or is it a situation wherein, you know, you realize that everybody wasn't actually being
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orthodox libertarian, and they were talking shit all the time.
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And you were just like, well, I don't want to be part of the everybody talking shit.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it was that and it was also it was also, I mean, the infiltration of white nationalists
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into the party was very clear to anybody who was listening.
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And you know, I'm from DC, and I moved, I moved from DC to Dallas.
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And I just remember in 20 Christmas Day 2012.
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So effectively 2013.
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I remember getting phrase people libertarians in Texas, I when there was that shooting in
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Paris at a nightclub or concert, I can't remember so long ago now, to remember, like my fellow
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libertarians in Texas being like, Oh, well, that could never happen here, because everybody
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has a gun.
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And I'm like, Hey, asshole, look up the Texas liquor laws.
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If you have a gun in a nightclub, you're going to jail, and they would be like, I don't know
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what you're talking about.
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Yeah, he looked at I fucking do like, here's the top seed rules, like, you know, and it's
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just that constant frustration with people having this idealistic version of how the
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world works.
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And the left does it too.
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The right does it, but not really applying that to reality.
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And, and so you know, you have this difference in the way people view stuff and their biases
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that they bring in.
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And it's also like, you know, just not telling white nationalists to get fucked.
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I Yeah, I mean, like, I knew people who ended up in the Proud Boys who ended up, you know,
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all these organizations.
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Christopher Catwell, a crying Nazi from Charlottesville, he was, you know, kind of known as like the,
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the anti cop guy, everybody knew who he was.
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And it took, you know, everyone knows an asshole, but it really took Charlottesville people
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to be like, Hey, fuck that guy.
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And it probably shouldn't take a white nationalist March, you know, or someone's murder to get
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people to be like, Hey, we got to get rid of this guy.
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Yeah.
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You know, it really shouldn't.
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Sometimes things should be that simple.
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I thought of it, you know, the problem with questions like that is I, you say that and
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I immediately think of like 15 different practical, real politic reasons why we're stuck in this
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scenario.
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But the real answer is, yeah, fuck that.
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That shouldn't be happening.
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What are we doing?
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Yeah.
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What is going on here?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I was at the, um, young Republican national convention last weekend, which was pretty
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funny because my article came out while I was there.
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And one of the guys who was in the article was there and he was very mad at me.
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Um, but you know, yeah, but some of them, you know, would be like, why, why do you care
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so much?
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And I'm like, first, I don't really know.
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I just, by chance, I make this guy's friends when I was undercover.
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So this is my beat now, but also like, you know, I did watch this happen already.
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I watched as a bunch of people, you know, look the other way while people like Gavin
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Wax, literally Gavin Wax did a libertarian party, you know, literally the same people.
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I wrote down in my notes, I refuse to believe that name is real.
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I refuse on principle to believe that Gavin Wax, an 80s super villain name is also a 2023
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real life villains name.
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That's fucking disgusting to me.
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Gavin Mario Wax, by the way.
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Gavin Mario, get the fuck out.
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Jesus Christ, fucking bad guy in a happy Gilmore.
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He should be played by that fucking guy, Jesus Christ.
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Oh my God.
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Anyways, I can't focus on, I can't focus on that right now because I'm going to get distracted
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by how much I hate his name, but that is another connection that you have there.
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Which is another thing that I find, like, so, you know, my last, my last interview was
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with Talia Lavin, who had gone undercover in a more online space, right?
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And you've gone undercover in a literal meat space as the people my age used to say a long
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time ago.
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And so I find it, I find the decision to go undercover to be that like, you know, I have
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to do something that, that personal nexus point.
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Why did you suddenly go like, I have to do something, you know, because what you're describing
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with the libertarian party is essentially that I'm watching people talk shit and I'm
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sick of it.
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I need something, I need to do something to make a positive impact on, on my belief system.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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I mean, I really didn't intend to go undercover that I did.
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I really thought I would just go to stuff and record it.
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And after January 6th, I bought a ticket to CPAC.
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And I flew down there thinking a lot of reporters can't travel right now.
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They're not allowed, their outlets, weren't going to send them to CPAC.
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Like they can't, you know, whatever.
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I could probably just get some audio and sell it to the reporters or like another person
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sells like an outlet or something, you know?
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You're hustling.
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Yeah.
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And, and I kind of got recruited while I was there.
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And so, yeah, I mean, like I like a little like loose backstory that I was telling people
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and it was very similar to my real life.
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You know, I was a libertarian.
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I lived in Maryland.
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I just said, I still lived in Maryland, you know, whatever.
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But yeah, it wasn't like I sat down and was like, this is my plan, you know, I'm going
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to get in and do that.
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I just, it just happened, which really pisses people off.
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People don't like that answer, but you know, that's kind of,
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I know people like that answer.
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I fucking love that answer.
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Yeah.
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But we're like kindred spirits in some ways I think because, you know, people who don't
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get the background, who don't get the natural lifelong interest in it, they're like, what
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are you, you know, like, this is sketchy.
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This is weird.
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But yeah, it's like, it's kind of always who I've been where it's just like, all right,
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this is what we're doing now.
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Okay, cool.
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Yeah.
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And yeah.
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I don't find that too different from Beauty and the Beast, truly like Belle being picked
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up.
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I don't find it too.
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And believe me, I identified with Belle.
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All right.
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That library, that's what I dreamt of.
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So I'm with you.
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That's very funny.
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So you got recruited.
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So and who, was it Shane himself who recruited you?
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Like right out the gate?
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Yeah.
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It was Shane.
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Okay.
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So, so Shane comes up and he's like, hey, there's no way you're somebody with a passing
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interest in becoming an undercover agent, right?
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That was his first sentence.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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He was like, you're normal, right?
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All right.
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You're totally, totally not going to kill me.
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And then, but I appreciate in your story, it is, it is a certain amount of just like
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a general affability and quietude.
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And these guys will be like, well, yeah, obviously women love what I say all the time if they're
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being quiet and just staying around me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know, what's really funny is when I met Shane, it was, his organization was having
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like an event, Laura Loomer was speaking.
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And so it was Marjorie Taylor Gray and Polka Star and within a couple of minutes of meeting
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Shane, the director, the executive director of the organization was like, I think that
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person back there was a journalist.
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So I'm like, oh really?
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Which person?
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I watched them pick somebody out for possibly maybe being a journalist because she was looking
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around sketchy.
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And I'm just like, wow, they're really bad at it.
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And that was the theme throughout the time I was undercover.
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I watched multiple people get kicked out of events for being journalists that were probably
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not journalists at all.
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Yeah.
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But never me.
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Never me.
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No, it's, it's weird.
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I'm going to tell you another secret from, these are the same type of people who were
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like, I'm pretty sure that's a witch and then murdered somebody.
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They're not good at this.
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No, not at all.
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It's all in their own heads.
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Oh man.
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There's so many, there's so many fun little interesting stories.
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Like you, you being at the Kirk Cameron anti drag show story time hour somehow.
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Yeah.
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Well that was just a couple of months ago.
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I just went and there were a lot of adults for the children's story time hour, a disproportionate
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amount of adults.
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The children that were there were primarily siblings, so maybe four of the children to
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one adult, but then, you know, so why do you have so many adults?
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Who knows?
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I think we all know.
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I think we all know those books are not for kids.
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Those books are not for children.
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Lips of TikTok was there.
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Hiya.
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She was, I think it was the first time Hiya had ever interacted with a child.
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Oh boy.
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Yeah.
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She was real weird with kids.
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Yeah.
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So tell me about, so tell me more about how that came about.
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Obviously we all know that conservative parents see children being read to and I go, ah, like
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that.
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So we know that they get mad about it.
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Why is it that they started trying to read to children themselves?
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That's what confuses me.
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Wow.
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There's a lot of money and getting parents to buy books for their kids that are for them.
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So Brave Books started this genius idea of getting all of the worst influencers you've
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ever heard of to collaborate on creating children's books.
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So whatever your niche thing is, your niche culture war issue is, they'll help you write
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a book about it.
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Except they did tell me Sean Spicer insisted on being extremely hands-on with his book,
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which when you hear his book, it's all about people.
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He's got a creative bone in his body.
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I find that more, that almost makes me endeared to him compared to these other like listless
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assholes, letting somebody churn out a children's book with their name on it.
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Sean Spicer doesn't put his name on Drek.
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Sean Spicer's book was all like, and sometimes maybe you get the wrong impression about people.
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And sometimes when you think that people are doing something wrong, maybe they're trying
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their best to do a good thing, but you can't pull it from the outside.
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I put the audio on my sub staff because I'm like, bro, are you okay?
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He was reading the book and I'm like, do we need to get you help?
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He wrote a children's book that's him being like, everybody was so fucking mean to me.
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Everybody was so mean to me.
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I was just trying to do my job, man.
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I'm not, I'm not even an, I'm just a guy.
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I'm just a guy.
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You don't even know my story.
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I'm just a guy, man, come on.
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It was, it was really good.
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It was actually by far the best rating because of how clearly personal it was.
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That's fantastic.
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Okay.
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So, so they've got all of the, so Brave Books now creates like bespoke children's book books
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for shitheads.
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How did they all get together to read them?
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Um, wow.
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I think that Haya was here for highest levels of TikTok.
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I think that she was here for something else, maybe on the Hill, there must've been something
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going on.
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And then of course, so they can spice or live here, you know, so the Maryland, he's not
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too far away.
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So they're both locals.
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I think, so I think Haya was here for an event and, um, they were like, oh, we'll do this.
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And you have to, it was at the public library, so they can't turn people away.
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Right.
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Um, and they were like clearly ready for protesters.
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Like I don't mean like armed.
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I mean like spiritually, they were ready to go.
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Yeah, no, we're so important.
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We're so like, this is a revolutionary act.
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We're taking the reading of a hastily pressed book.
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We had nothing to do with.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And, um, unfortunately for them, there were no protesters.
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No, no.
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Cause no one cares.
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No, no one cares.
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No one cares.
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Um, so yeah, it was, it was, I mean, it's also like DC, like I was like in the middle
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of the day on a weekday during the school year.
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So yeah.
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Yeah.
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Cause children are famously free on Tuesdays at noon.
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Right.
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No.
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And I can, I mean, I know it seems like way I may be jumping back and forth, but the reason
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that this jumps out at me is because back on January 6th, you know, when you're describing
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the way these people see reality versus the way it is, you know, and when you're walking
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around on January 6th, people all around you going like, Hey, don't walk around alone.
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Don't be alone.
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You know, you're the people that she should be afraid of.
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You know, like that's kind of the situation there.
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And the same thing is going on here.
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They're creating this, um, uh, enemy that's around the corner at all the time.
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And it's just not, they are the problem.
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Yeah.
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It's just this boogeyman situation.
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I mean like the lead up to January 6th, the, there was a rally in December, 2020, and it
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was, it was like haunting.
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I don't even know how to describe it.
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I I'm sure my friends wish that I would shut up about it because for like weeks, I mean,
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probably until the sixth, I was just like, man, this was really bad.
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Like I, these people are out of their minds and they're not like saying that lightly.
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I mean like literally the perceived threats that they were, they were saying, and, and
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the concern, if I walked across the street to be like, I tried to go buy a red bull or
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something.
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And people were like, Oh my God, Walgreens, there's many enemies, a foot.
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I'm like coming out of the Walgreens, I'll tell you what the fuck out of their minds.
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Like, it's like, wait, what is happening?
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Uh, and, and so I, I did not notice that to the same extent at the November rally.
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And I think maybe some of that, it was partially people getting their bearings and understanding
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the city.
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And cause a lot of people came back for all three.
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And then also, you know, uh, people like your friend, Alex, uh, trying to whip everyone
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up into a paranoid frenzy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You're not going to have an event like that and not have him making it, have him make
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an appearance.
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Come on now.
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That's the, that's the, uh, event of the season.
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It is.
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I, I stood, uh, December 12th, 2020, probably, I don't know, 10 PM.
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I stood in front of the JW Marriott and chanted 1776 with Alex Jones, big highlight of my
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life.
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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And earlier that day, he ran into me.
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He was just barreled on to me.
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Just moving forward.
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Yeah.
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He had a broken megaphone and he was trying to interrupt Millie Weaver's speech.
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Um, and I was standing between him and Millie.
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So I had to be, there's so many apropos images that you, you evoke throughout all of this.
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This holding a broken megaphone annoying Millie Weaver is like a poignant visage.
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But also like, here's how fucked up I am because of your podcast, people around me are like,
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aren't they friends?
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And I'm like, actually, let me tell you about Millie, the people who are like in the warm
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shirts.
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Real specific.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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Let me explain to you where everybody in Star Trek stands in relation to each other in the
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UN.
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Okay.
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I know you think you're a fan, but listen.
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That is very funny.
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And then it gets back to the false reality thing.
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That's what I keep coming back to.
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Um, with your, with your story, I keep, I keep finding so many different moments where
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the people who are being honest, like, uh, uh, Alex Nelson, I think is the one in your
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most recent piece who's like, Hey, uh, yeah, I know Biden won.
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I still think we should have done January 6th cause fuck those people, you know, like
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that kind of thing, right?
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Yeah.
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To me, when I hear that, what fascinates me is that you would not have gotten a, you would
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not have had January 6th if you hadn't lied people into it.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Like you could not have convinced even these idiots straight up, just like, Hey, fuck it.
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Let's overthrow the government.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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They had to, they had to make up a fun little story about that.
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And I feel like that same kindred, uh, issue there for you with libertarianism, they just
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keep making up all this bullshit and expecting us to cram it down our throats.
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Does that track?
Unknown Speaker (00:34:02.839)
Yeah, baby.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:04.839)
So yeah, that's, that's where, that's where I'm at there.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:15.639)
What I'm trying to say is keep at conservatism.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:17.639)
I think, uh, if you keep going,
Unknown Speaker (00:34:20.639)
you just got to do it until you know, the Jews can't really be Americans.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:26.719)
That's right.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:27.719)
I know.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:28.719)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:29.719)
I know what that was.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:30.719)
You fly.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:31.719)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:32.719)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:33.719)
That one is nuts.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:34.719)
That's actually another question that I want to go into.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:36.039)
Um, no, they're Americans.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:37.440)
They really can be
Unknown Speaker (00:34:38.440)
My question was how much of all of this shit you've spent time in these spaces.
Unknown Speaker (00:34:56.920)
How much of this is just shit talk?
Unknown Speaker (00:34:59.239)
How much is it?
Unknown Speaker (00:35:00.239)
How much of this is dudes trying to impress other dudes in a jerk circle that never ends?
Unknown Speaker (00:35:06.440)
Here's what I think happens.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:09.239)
I think happened with Trump as I think.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:16.480)
I think about the Trump campaign, I mean, not, not the official campaign, but the way
Unknown Speaker (00:35:20.079)
it played out, especially on the internet.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:23.480)
Let's say you don't like Jewish people and let's say you're racist.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:27.639)
Um, I think this, I think the, the edgelord mean warfare thing created a culture where
Unknown Speaker (00:35:36.960)
instead of just passively being just trustful of Jewish people or passively like avoiding
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black people or just maybe not even really knowing any, um, these things became fixtures
Unknown Speaker (00:35:51.179)
in the front of people's minds in a way that, uh, you know, maybe it wouldn't have otherwise.
Unknown Speaker (00:35:58.099)
And so I'm not saying it's like fine to be passively racist, but you know, there's a
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difference between being passive racist and being obsessively fixated on something, which
Unknown Speaker (00:36:06.840)
is what happened to think for a lot of people.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:10.079)
And so I think, uh, maybe some of these people don't even really know the answer to that
Unknown Speaker (00:36:13.440)
question themselves.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:14.440)
You know, I think that it's now just become, uh, like a cultural and social thing to, to
Unknown Speaker (00:36:21.239)
be this edgelord caricature of a person.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:25.320)
Um, and I don't, I don't know that people really know where their identities begin and
Unknown Speaker (00:36:30.599)
end anymore.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:31.599)
Um, I mean, it's like for the more extreme elements, like not for regular people or whatever.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:37.400)
Um, uh, and I think as you look at people who are walking away from the Trump movement,
Unknown Speaker (00:36:44.079)
you kind of see that and it's like, I mean, I don't really deal with people who were reformed
Unknown Speaker (00:36:50.380)
or reforming.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:51.380)
That's not really my lane.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:52.380)
I don't really like, I don't want to say I don't care, but like, I just, I don't care
Unknown Speaker (00:36:56.239)
to deal with it.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:57.239)
I don't care to make assessments.
Unknown Speaker (00:36:58.239)
I don't care to assist people for, you know, not my job, not my lane, not my job.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:03.599)
So my sister is a, my sister's, um, a special ed elementary school teacher.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:07.800)
So she got 100% of the patients between us, you know, like she's very kind of patient
Unknown Speaker (00:37:11.519)
and I'm like, Oh, shut up.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:12.519)
I don't give a fuck.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:13.519)
Perfect.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:14.519)
Uh, so it's not, I don't have a personality, but, um, but I do interact with these people
Unknown Speaker (00:37:20.840)
sometimes and I do see people like trying to understand, like, how do I really feel
Unknown Speaker (00:37:24.559)
about things?
Unknown Speaker (00:37:25.559)
Like, you know, like you have to like kind of, uh, do the program and separate yourself.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:29.719)
Um, and so I think it's, I think it's both, I think there are people who are like very
Unknown Speaker (00:37:36.960)
interested in the idea of an ethnicity and would actually like to work to make it happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:42.960)
And I think there are other people who are, would have in a different situation just continued
Unknown Speaker (00:37:47.039)
to be passively racist until they died.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:49.039)
But who got whipped up into the idea of it and became something else.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:52.840)
Sure, sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:37:54.079)
If it weren't for this asshole, I would have run a store and I've kind of been an asshole
Unknown Speaker (00:37:58.400)
to people and no one could ever have truly proven that I was racist.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:02.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.559)
Thanks to this guy.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:04.599)
Now I'm all out over the place throwing my business around.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:07.639)
Right?
Unknown Speaker (00:38:08.639)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:09.639)
Now I'm an American Renaissance and I'm writing hateful scapes that are getting shared around.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:12.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:13.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:14.920)
I'm a cult leader now.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:15.920)
I was so close.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:16.920)
I could have just been a guy and now I'm a massive internet racist.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:19.840)
Oh yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:20.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:21.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:22.840)
I think, I think that, I think that happened fairly often.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:23.840)
You know, and I, I do, I do think I, I, I'm going to be clear, like I was like, I am like
Unknown Speaker (00:38:30.639)
not so dedicated to the craft, but I'm going to like be hooking up with a fascist.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:35.360)
So I did have to find like, like Nelson was way more interested in being racist than like
Unknown Speaker (00:38:41.719)
cocaine and like sex with random people.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:45.199)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:46.199)
Which, you know,
Unknown Speaker (00:38:47.199)
That's a really good, that's a really good point to bring up.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:51.079)
There is a selection bias based around people who are racist enough to get over the fact
Unknown Speaker (00:38:56.440)
that they are not horny right now.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:58.400)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:38:59.400)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:00.400)
Truly.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:01.400)
I live in a lot of this culture.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:02.400)
It's like, I turned out a lot of coke and I turned out a lot of ecstasy, you know?
Unknown Speaker (00:39:06.679)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:07.679)
And, and so yeah,
Unknown Speaker (00:39:08.679)
Wise move.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:09.679)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:10.679)
And so, you know, I don't know, I feel like, you know, I think if maybe some people are
Unknown Speaker (00:39:16.000)
really into the partying aspect of the culture too.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:19.800)
And so it is just also more shit talk for them, but there are certainly people who are
Unknown Speaker (00:39:23.280)
dedicated to it.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:24.719)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:25.719)
I mean, since you were undercover in it, when, when you're talking about, you know, like
Unknown Speaker (00:39:32.519)
how do people keep their identity together and maybe they don't really know where theirs
Unknown Speaker (00:39:36.119)
is, how did you maintain yours?
Unknown Speaker (00:39:38.760)
I mean, obviously not doing coke and ecstasy helps a great deal in maintaining one's sense
Unknown Speaker (00:39:43.880)
of self naturally, but how did you maintain kind of your concept of I am Amanda, despite
Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.900)
the fact that you gave your fake persona, Amanda's name, my advice don't do that, but
Unknown Speaker (00:39:56.519)
continue.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:57.519)
Oh, I knew I would not respond to a fake name.
Unknown Speaker (00:39:59.719)
I know who I am.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:01.280)
I know.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:02.280)
It would be like, Heather, Heather, Heather.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:05.079)
And I'd be like, who the fuck is Heather?
Unknown Speaker (00:40:08.079)
That's secretly why Craig Robinson is named Craig and everything he's in.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:11.920)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:12.920)
You know, I, I just, I don't think I really thought about, I mean, it would get kind of
Unknown Speaker (00:40:18.760)
weird.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:19.760)
Like if I met new people in my real life, I'd have to like switch gears, not to not
Unknown Speaker (00:40:25.960)
be like racist, but just like I use my mother's maiden name.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:30.119)
I didn't mean to say that to you.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:31.719)
You're a regular person.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:32.940)
That's to my race.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.940)
I'm undercover.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:34.940)
I apologize.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:35.940)
I got to explain the whole thing like, yeah, you have, you would have to explain the whole
Unknown Speaker (00:40:40.119)
thing if you broke one time.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:42.039)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:43.039)
So that never happened.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:44.039)
But you know, I would be like, Oh, like my name is Amanda Lilly.
Unknown Speaker (00:40:48.840)
I mean, no, it's more, you know, like shit like that, like just smaller stuff, but I
Unknown Speaker (00:40:52.760)
will say it, maybe this is like some weird trauma response to like participating in a
Unknown Speaker (00:40:59.559)
lunatic religion.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:00.559)
But you know, I really didn't find it very hard.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.199)
It's like I went to the stuff and then I came back and I was like, okay, let's go out drinking.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:07.579)
Let's drink when, when COVID was in like full, full swing, let's, let's go to the park and
Unknown Speaker (00:41:14.519)
found drinks till it'd be as stealth as we got to go, you know, and that's like the first
Unknown Speaker (00:41:19.840)
day that it's, you know, after that, it's kind of fine.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:22.840)
I mean, I was also pretty fortunate in the, like my friends who were interested in this
Unknown Speaker (00:41:27.360)
kind of stuff.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:28.360)
And I, you know, I had friends who were reporters and so I would call and I could decompress
Unknown Speaker (00:41:32.739)
with a journalist covering, you know, this kind of stuff for like an hour and instead
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of having to like start from zero and explain to somebody like, okay, this is what it probably
Unknown Speaker (00:41:41.679)
is.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:42.679)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:43.679)
So I was very fortunate in that regard, but yeah, you know, I just, I, I just was able
Unknown Speaker (00:41:50.239)
to do it.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:51.239)
I'm very good at departmentalizing.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:52.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:41:53.880)
Do you find, do you find any part of that like snuck its way in and you're, that's unexamined?
Unknown Speaker (00:42:01.760)
Like do you ever find that world coming through?
Unknown Speaker (00:42:06.239)
I picked up a lot of the like slang for sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:09.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:10.559)
Like a lot.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:11.559)
You know, the old, be careful of the mask you wear kind of idea.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:15.800)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:16.800)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:17.800)
I mean, I really think it was like slang, which is probably, I mean, I say it's probably
Unknown Speaker (00:42:22.960)
fine because it's like leftist internet culture has often adopted right wing, like, you know,
Unknown Speaker (00:42:29.119)
manner of speaking, you know?
Unknown Speaker (00:42:30.599)
And so that's kind of like whatever, um, yeah, not, not so much, not really.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:37.079)
I mean, cause if I was gonna, I had an opportunity to believe all of this stuff growing up, I,
Unknown Speaker (00:42:43.480)
you know, I was an active decision to not participate in this world.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:49.039)
Um, I feel like once you make that act decision, like it's like, it's like a, it's like a vaccine.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:56.440)
It's like an immunization.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:57.440)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:58.440)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (00:42:59.440)
No, that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:00.440)
I know.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:01.440)
When did you make that the first time?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:04.119)
Oh God, I like was like, religion is probably not so great by with him.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:11.159)
I was like 17, you know, like pretty early.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:14.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:15.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:16.159)
I think it probably took like five years for me to be like, I'm not religious at all, but
Unknown Speaker (00:43:21.159)
yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:22.159)
Why?
Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.159)
Well, it was a Baptist school until high school and I, it was just like, yeah, it'd be, it'd
Unknown Speaker (00:43:30.400)
be dumb.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:31.400)
Dumb shit.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:32.400)
I'm not, this isn't an interrogation.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:35.960)
I'm not trying to, I don't need, I don't need a good answer.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:38.760)
I'm just interested.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:39.760)
No, I mean like, like actual dumb shit where it's like, you know, you're like, okay, well
Unknown Speaker (00:43:44.880)
if everything levels right, then why was Paul like, don't have sex, but if you have to have
Unknown Speaker (00:43:50.000)
sex, get married because the end of days is coming and it's like, nobody can answer that
Unknown Speaker (00:43:53.599)
for you when you're like 11.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:55.239)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:43:56.239)
You know, it kind of, uh, messes with your, your, your shape than the big dramatic thing
Unknown Speaker (00:44:02.960)
that doesn't need to be a giant, like arguing with, you know, God in a tornado.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:09.579)
You can just be like, nah, I'm out.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:11.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:12.119)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:13.119)
Like this is making less and less sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:14.119)
The rules are weird.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:15.119)
Uh, you know, like I had a teacher who'd be like, you know, they would like really like,
Unknown Speaker (00:44:18.280)
I liked to Bobby the vampire Slayer and I don't really have a whole, we had a whole
Unknown Speaker (00:44:25.440)
chapel session about how Buffy the vampire Slayer was like a demonic show.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:28.920)
I'm like, this is about me.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:30.239)
Just say it's about Amanda.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:31.639)
Like this is a personal message from God, I guess.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:35.840)
Um, and it just like stuff like that, it's like, why are you like, I'm, I'm like, I'm
Unknown Speaker (00:44:40.360)
like 12, what are you doing?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:42.000)
Don't do this.
Unknown Speaker (00:44:43.000)
You know?
Unknown Speaker (00:44:44.000)
Oh, I had the, when I was, uh, around that age, that was when, uh, the very first Harry
Unknown Speaker (00:44:49.440)
Potter came out and, uh, the, the, the collection of, uh, elderly women in my church, uh, gave
Unknown Speaker (00:44:57.559)
me 12, 13 year old Jordan, this book being like, can you read this to make sure that
Unknown Speaker (00:45:03.199)
it's not demonic?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:04.679)
You know, like in case our children read it, can you make sure, Oh, you almost all ladies
Unknown Speaker (00:45:10.500)
and gentlemen, I have to say, I almost elicited a full spit take.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:15.480)
We've all missed out on a full on spit take.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:18.519)
I, it is a, it is a disaster that I will regret for the rest of my life.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:25.719)
You kept it in.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:26.719)
Why would they tell a 12 year old to be the Anubis?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:38.199)
Because I was the one who would know.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:39.599)
I swear to you, I have no idea.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:41.559)
There's no reasonable explanation and no answer anyone has ever given me actually makes sense.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:48.000)
This might be demonic.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:49.280)
Anyway, you're 12 now.
Unknown Speaker (00:45:51.380)
I mean, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:45:52.380)
If it is, what am I, am I some sort of, do I have some sort of power to bulwark myself
Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.039)
against it?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:00.039)
If it is demonic, what am I going to tell you the truth?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:02.519)
Well, no, cause you possessed.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:04.920)
No, I would be possessed.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:07.320)
What did you read it?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:09.840)
Did you tell them?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:10.840)
Did you tell them how bad it was?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:11.840)
I read them all.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:12.840)
I'll tell you what, I think they were right.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:17.119)
In retrospect, hindsight being 20, 20, look where we are now, I mean, I'm going to be
Unknown Speaker (00:46:23.840)
honest.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:24.840)
It makes me a little bit frustrated to think that if those ladies had kept everybody from
Unknown Speaker (00:46:29.400)
reading Harry Potter, we would all be better off.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:31.840)
I believe they had given it to a 13 year old, somebody more reasonable mature.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:35.280)
I know it was probably my fault to be honest.
Unknown Speaker (00:46:43.880)
So then, I mean, I want to ask you, because your work is continuing, you're obviously
Unknown Speaker (00:46:50.559)
not done writing or you're done going undercover in very specific places, I assume, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:46:58.320)
I'm not undercover completely, but I'm not done writing about Gavin Wax much to his dismay.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:02.639)
Fucking give him a better name.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:04.639)
Tell him to change his name.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:05.880)
Tell him Jordan Holmes of the podcast Knowledge Fight says he needs to get his shit together
Unknown Speaker (00:47:11.360)
and change his name.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:12.360)
Yeah, people in his circle, some of his friends were recently on Infowars extended universe.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:19.159)
So our worlds are colliding, every time it happens, I messaged Dan, I'm like, what the
Unknown Speaker (00:47:23.400)
fuck is this?
Unknown Speaker (00:47:24.400)
And he's like, I don't speak for Owen Troyer, Harrison, I don't speak for Harrison.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:29.239)
You should speak for him because I don't like him.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:32.280)
I speak for no man but myself.
Unknown Speaker (00:47:35.440)
So, yeah, so what's like, how do you move forward from here?
Unknown Speaker (00:47:45.599)
So I mean, the thing is, I somehow stumbled upon some of the most disliked men in America
Unknown Speaker (00:47:57.440)
when I was undercover.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:00.000)
And I'm like an ambulance chaser.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:04.559)
Gavin Wax will have these big public fights with people who have been his close friends
Unknown Speaker (00:48:09.679)
for years.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:10.679)
And I'll have them on Twitter, he'll quote tweet them and bully them.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:14.500)
And I'm like, hi, my name is Amanda, we don't have much in common.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:18.639)
Except we do have one interest that we share and that's Gavin Wax.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:22.039)
I would love to talk to you about it.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:25.119)
And I guess I'm writing a profile about Gavin Wax.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:27.079)
Have you been hurt by Gavin Wax?
Unknown Speaker (00:48:29.320)
Please call 1-888-501-5555.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:33.880)
If you've been hurt by Gavin, we'll take care of you today.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:37.239)
It is like, literally people are like, yeah, as soon as we had that fight, I knew you wouldn't
Unknown Speaker (00:48:42.199)
message me.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:43.199)
So I don't attack him or anything when I'm doing it.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:48.639)
Everybody who's in the tweet thread gets notification that I don't give a shit because when it's
Unknown Speaker (00:48:52.800)
your turn, you need to know that I'm going to be there for you too.
Unknown Speaker (00:48:56.840)
And so, you know, I guess I'm worried about him and this group that I was hanging around
Unknown Speaker (00:49:02.639)
and that's kind of like my next journalistic journey, I think.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:09.280)
Just an oral history of Gavin Wax being a piece of shit.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:13.960)
Man, it has to be like a condensed version, because everybody's going to squeeze.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:21.679)
No, you can make it, I mean, Game of Thrones lasted for a lot of seasons.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:26.880)
You can keep on rolling it out.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:29.420)
It doesn't have to be good all the time.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:31.139)
Just enough.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:32.139)
Just enough to string people along.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:36.719)
So I mean, I feel like the place that I want to kind of close things up with is for most
Unknown Speaker (00:49:47.079)
of us, we've never been inside of those, like, it's just us conversations.
Unknown Speaker (00:49:52.780)
And so our perception of this, this faction of the far right will always be tempered by
Unknown Speaker (00:49:58.079)
what it is that we can see and who shows us what from what point of view, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:04.420)
And so it's very hard to just kind of like, oh, here's what they're going to do, because
Unknown Speaker (00:50:09.079)
I don't really know.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:10.199)
I don't really know.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:13.480)
From talking to them, do you kind of have an idea of, are we descending further into,
Unknown Speaker (00:50:21.800)
I mean, fascism, like, are we going to try and overthrow the country again?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:27.260)
Or is there another trick?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:29.320)
Should I be wearing different clothes?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:32.800)
What are they doing next?
Unknown Speaker (00:50:34.579)
That's what I need to know.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:35.840)
Well, they're still really afraid of gathering.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:40.599)
They're really afraid of federal informants.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:44.340)
Everything glows.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:45.340)
And that is beautiful.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:46.340)
I love that.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:47.340)
You know, Patriot Front is a real organization.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:50.880)
Patriot Front is not a group of federal informants.
Unknown Speaker (00:50:55.139)
And yet people cannot stop saying Patriot Front is just federal informants.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:00.360)
And it's like crazy because actually when you're inside the organization, they're worried
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about federal informants all of the time because they are not federal informants.
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And so you've got these like internal struggles where they're so afraid.
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They're so afraid to have a rally there, you know, and that's, that's great because as
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long as they're physically distanced from each other, I, you know, after the election,
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I don't know what'll happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:24.519)
I think nobody knows what will happen.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:26.119)
I think they don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:27.119)
I assume Trump will be the nominee and I assume that he will lose and I did not think he could
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lose in 2016.
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I knew he would win.
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I knew he would win from the minute he came out of the escalator.
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That's our next president.
Unknown Speaker (00:51:38.599)
Yeah.
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It was fun.
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So I was a Chicago comedian at the time.
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And I want to say it was Fritz, I want to say it was Jim Fritz, but he was, he tweeted
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something out like, um, any comic who's worked the road in the Midwest knew Trump was going
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to be our president and that like touched a, but yeah, of course we all did.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:02.159)
We all saw it coming, you know?
Unknown Speaker (00:52:04.320)
Yeah.
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I did, um, I, from 2013 to 2015, I did the launch of the redesign of Chevy Silverado.
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So it works mostly farm shows across the country for two years.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:15.440)
And it was, I mean, also my family, like, you know, I've met my family before.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:22.519)
You know, but I, I, it's a very, it's a memory of me and now we're talking some interesting
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stuff.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:29.320)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:30.320)
You're doing farm shows for two years.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:31.320)
Tell me more about this.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:32.320)
Well, I remember being in North Carolina in 2013 during a furlough and I remember some
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guy getting in my car, my, my, my truck, we were talking, he was talking about whatever
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with you.
Unknown Speaker (00:52:43.079)
Um, and he was like, the time the farm bill, the, the corn bill was up, like a farm, whatever,
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like to, so they could just get their free corn money.
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And he's like, you know, this furlough, I'm really glad it's happening.
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He's black.
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His welfare queens, you know, um, it's time that we like really restructure this, but
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I really miss that corn shack.
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And I'm like my brother, guess who the welfare queen is.
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That's you.
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It's you.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:10.920)
Yeah.
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But like, you don't come down that escalator.
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It's not like, it's not like my grandparents on my mom's side.
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It's not like, I mean, it's like so many people that I met when I was like talking to all
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these trucks.
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I'm like, you know, so I, I know, but I think, I think now it will be the nominee.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:27.239)
I think there's a good chance he'll lose.
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I think his health is degrading and I think more people are disgusted with him that voted
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for him in 2016 and even 2020 that might not vote for him now, um, January 6th did have
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an impact on some people, but, you know, I think they're going to have a struggle.
Unknown Speaker (00:53:46.519)
The Republicans in general have a struggle because you, how long can you entertain somebody
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like Carrie Lake who, you know, is living on Mars?
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You know,
Unknown Speaker (00:53:59.119)
That's a really good question that we haven't found the answer to yet.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:02.039)
And I feel like we should have a long time ago.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:05.480)
I feel the same way.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:06.480)
But do you think there's a difference in a campaign like 2016 where you didn't have a
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Carrie Lake, you didn't have Cuban on.
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But 2020, you know, you've got Cuban on, but even then, Oh, Trump's a time traveler is
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like a real obscure sect of Cuban on.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:25.280)
And I think now at this point, many people who are, I mean, many people recognize my
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photo with Vincent Fusco, who is famously actually JFK Jr.
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People who I would not have expected to recognize a fake JFK Jr. recognize it.
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So I think like, just, what a weird celebrity, what a weird celebrity.
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The craziest parts of MAGA-ism have become more known.
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And I think it makes it more embarrassing for people to be involved with it.
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And so I don't know.
Unknown Speaker (00:54:59.199)
I think, I think they're having a hard time, poor guys, poor, poor MAGA people.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:02.639)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:03.639)
Well, I mean, that's, that's a good question.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:07.599)
Because we don't really know, and, and, you know, it's, it's really only happening to
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a few thousand people, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:13.320)
So you don't have a personal connection to it, but I know that people in jail who were
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at January 6th are getting sentences.
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I know people are getting jail time.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:25.639)
I know, you know, Stuart Rhodes is in jail, right?
Unknown Speaker (00:55:28.480)
I don't know exactly what that means for the people who are in the larger movement.
Unknown Speaker (00:55:33.519)
You know, is it really that, is it a huge dent that a thousand people are, do you know
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what I mean?
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So if you're telling me that, yes, that makes everybody afraid, that's very good news.
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Yeah.
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I mean, they really are afraid to gather.
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I went to a rally in September, 2021 here in DC and it was very, I mean, it was, people
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were saying, don't go, it glows.
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It was much smaller than they intended for it to be.
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There was a heavy, heavy, heavy police presence.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:05.000)
You know, I, I don't know, it's just, they're not, they're not, they're not getting together
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like they used to.
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Especially during, and then also like shit's back, open again, you can like, do you want
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to come here?
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Like, do you want to come to DC and like, march around or do you want to like maybe
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go to, I don't know, Disney World with your kids?
Unknown Speaker (00:56:22.360)
Like you want to go to Disney, you know, you don't want to stand in front of Biden's White
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House and cry.
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I think it's like lost its luster, when that might change when Trump loses the presidency
Unknown Speaker (00:56:30.719)
it might become more exciting to come here and bitch.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:35.559)
I think it is one of the most reinforcing like results for, for my beliefs that if politics
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is boring, everybody's better off.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:46.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:47.960)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:48.960)
You know, the more, the more you're like, okay, here's our big argument.
Unknown Speaker (00:56:53.760)
I believe in a 4.125% progressive tax on imports above this certain that, you know, like, yeah,
Unknown Speaker (00:57:02.159)
cool.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:03.159)
Your government.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:04.159)
Have fun.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:05.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:06.159)
I don't want anybody like, this person should live or die.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:08.639)
No, no.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:09.639)
Yeah.
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Stay away.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:11.639)
I don't see, I don't see anybody having a coup for putting fingers wrong.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:15.239)
Like, I just don't think he has the riz to make people want to do that.
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So.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:24.760)
It is the question of like, how much of January 6th is just a really good story took people
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by storm.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:35.559)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:57:36.559)
Yeah.
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I mean, I think a lot of people, a lot of people were not necessarily prepared to swim
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the Capitol.
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I mean, when, when Trump told us to go to the Capitol, I was standing by the, it's a
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cloud.
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It's the big pencil, the monument, Washington monument.
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And you can look to your right and there's the Capitol, it's a mile down the road, but
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you can see it.
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People around me are like, where's the Capitol?
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I'm like, oh, it's right there.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:06.840)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:07.840)
See it with your eyes.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:08.840)
Um, like those people, I mean, there were maps online and some of those people like
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either, you know, they had not printed out the map.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:15.039)
They were not like familiar with the coordinates of the city.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:17.559)
Like tactically, this is where, you know, they mean a lot of the people were just there.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:21.519)
I never got to go take a field trip to DC.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:24.320)
So I wouldn't know where the fucking Capitol was.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:26.280)
I don't judge them for that.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:28.159)
You should have been engineering sick.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:29.639)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:30.639)
Like without, without those people, without that kind of person, you could have also met
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Alex Jones, um, without those people who are just like, whoa, whatever, let's do, you know,
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like he didn't need that because without them, there's not enough bodies to have a coup.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:47.900)
And those people are afraid now.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:49.519)
Those people are largely afraid of, of gathering.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:52.880)
Thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker (00:58:53.880)
If you could please tell everybody where to find you, uh, where to follow your work, where
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to, uh, you know, just support you.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:01.880)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:02.880)
So I'm on all the platforms as no turtle soup 17, um, Twitter mostly, but I've got Instagram
Unknown Speaker (00:59:10.840)
and blue sky and Mastodon and Facebook and I don't know, Tumblr, I think Tik TOK.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:16.239)
And then I have a sub stack, which is also in a turtle soup 17 at sub stack.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:20.960)
Um, that's, that's where I am.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:23.880)
Well, thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:25.880)
And, uh, I hope everything for the future goes, uh, just swimmingly.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:30.079)
Thank you.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:31.079)
Thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:32.079)
Oh.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:33.079)
And then I guess, um, yeah, this is coming out, this is coming out with the 25th.
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So I guess next week I'll have a followup, uh, to my recommendation that'll be out because
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of Gavin wax, uh, screaming at me in person when the article drops and went a little right
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up about that.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:49.920)
So I'll be in the nation too.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:50.920)
Nice.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:51.920)
Well, that's awesome.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:52.920)
Uh, everybody will be looking forward to that.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:55.440)
Not gotten probably not, but I still don't think he's real.
Unknown Speaker (00:59:59.519)
So that, uh, we'll see how that, thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:04.179)
Take care.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:05.179)
Thank you.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:06.179)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:07.179)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:08.179)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:09.179)
Hello Alex.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:10.179)
I'm a first time caller.
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I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:12.179)
I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (01:00:13.179)
I love you.
