Transcript/665: Formulaic Objections Part 6

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Alex Jones (00:00:04.000)

Red Alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red Alert knowledge five days. Damn, Jordan I am sweating knowledge party.com It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge. Knowledge. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys shank me or the bad guy knowledge. Dan and Jordan knowledge fight need money Andy and Andy you're stopping Andy and Ken handy in Kansas. And he started the fray and the Kansas surely are. Huge fan. I love your word. Knowledge by knowledge. fight.com

Dan (00:00:59.000)

Hey, everybody, welcome back knowledge fed. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes sit around. Where's the altar of saline and talk a little bit about Alex. Oh, Joe.

Jordan (00:01:07.000)

Oh, indeed. We are Dan

Dan (00:01:08.000)

Georgia. Dan Jordanna question. What's up? What's your bright spot? You go first.

Jordan (00:01:12.000)

Oh, my bright spot today. Dan is a new album. Well, it's not as new as I would have liked. But I just caught I wish it was newer. I wish it was yesterday. So it could be even cooler. Actually, when you find out the album you will think otherwise. But he know it's Robert Glasper who is one of my favorite jazz pianists. So the 1970s nosey album is from a couple months ago. Okay. And Robert Glasper though is specific because he works in r&b a lot. He provides a lot of hooks he provides all kinds of stuff for all kinds of people but he is himself an incredibly talented jazz pianist and songwriter and I fucking love it.

Dan (00:01:54.000)

That's great. Yeah, I'm glad that you have another album for you to enjoy always. My bread spot is frozen custard

Jordan (00:02:02.000)

everywhere mustard in it. No Frozen Custard muster. You have the customer the customer?

Dan (00:02:09.000)

No, I can't do that. Mustard is at least not as unhealthy as rumors.

Jordan (00:02:13.000)

That's what we do we I do custard you will meet in the middle buster.

Dan (00:02:19.000)

Frozen Custard is superior in every way to soft serve to ice cream is the best. I will hear no other arguments. Frozen

Jordan (00:02:27.000)

Yogurt. Better. Better than frozen yogurt. Way better. Better than ice cream better. Okay, better than what other frozen things are there a popsicle? Better? Well, yeah, I'll be it's like,

Dan (00:02:39.000)

yeah, I enjoy it. Anyway, welcome back to part two.

Jordan (00:02:44.000)

Deposition attack

Dan (00:02:46.000)

in 600 Something episodes we have never done. What would you describe as a two parter? I don't think I'm no recording this directly after we recorded the last. We just had to break it into two.

Jordan (00:02:59.000)

I suppose the closest would be obviously our documentaries wherein we

Dan (00:03:03.000)

Yeah, I guess that's true five parter.

Jordan (00:03:06.000)

Yes, obviously why would Dan our episodes are regularly two and a half three hours long. Why would we do a two parter. Other people do two part that's a good point. We

Dan (00:03:15.000)

do five part Alright, fine. We're, we're slacking on a tee. So as promised, today we will be getting into the deposition that Owen Shroyer did this was from December 2 2021. Blackjack. This is a fun thing about this is I went to the Daria and Alex depositions that took place the next days after this right I unfortunately the timing didn't work out that I could have been at the Oakland deposition but it was it was right in that ballpark right around the same time

Jordan (00:03:48.000)

unfortunately you could not watch the cut destroy or be destroyed. This was the nearest

Dan (00:03:53.000)

of misses. And I am sad sad to have missed it on TV in the same room.

Jordan (00:03:59.000)

Oh with the oh when the legend that Shroyer Oh,

Dan (00:04:02.000)

I would have been destroyed probably no, I can't imagine how you wouldn't. So we'll get down to business on this year the deposition but before we do let's take a little moment say hello to somebody walk. Oh, that's great idea. So first Oska Lang leash. So how are you? Thank you so much for now policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:04:18.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Dan (00:04:19.000)

Thank you very much character you're aware of. I'm not I think it's from an anime. Okay. I understand correctly. I don't know. Next Happy birthday clown space and hoody bhuntar. Me love you long time. Thank you so much for an hour policy

Alex Jones (00:04:31.000)

walk. I'm a policy ye Thank you.

Dan (00:04:34.000)

Next Dan's Voice sounds exactly like Obama. And now you can't unhear it. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

Alex Jones (00:04:39.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Jordan (00:04:40.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:04:41.000)

I'm not sure if that's true.

Jordan (00:04:42.000)

I don't think so.

Dan (00:04:43.000)

Next GZ curve Leesy beef cap Q You are such a policy wonk. You are now a policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:04:49.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Jordan (00:04:50.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:04:51.000)

Next, technocrats are the Adeptus Mechanicum. Thank you so much. You are now policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:04:56.000)

I'm a policy.

Jordan (00:04:57.000)

You've really gotten punished with these today. Here. issue.

Dan (00:05:01.000)

And finally, Ian's professional elbow pads. Thank you so much. You are now policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:05:05.000)

I'm a policy wonk.

Jordan (00:05:06.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:05:07.000)

Thank you so much. So on our last episode, we talked about the kid Daniels deposition. That was in the Marcel Fontaine case, of course, that was more, you know, targeted li focused to Kitt and his behavior. This, we're back on the Sandy Hook business, indeed. But oh, and Shroyer is the person who did the video that was defamatory towards Neil Heslin. Right, in response to the Megan Kelly interview. And so there is actually a bit more of an angle in that you're not really provided when you're talking with Daria, or rob do as the corporate representatives or Alex, because it was actually Oh, and saying Do you think he was on the ground? Yeah, that that prompted a lot of this. And so that's that's pretty interesting position. And I'm excited for a couple things, particularly something that we're gonna get to do pretty, pretty early. But first, we must learn, as we always do with all these depositions. Hey, bro, how much do you make and

Bill Ogden (00:06:09.000)

how much money do you make from free speech systems? Is it salary or hourly salary? What's your salary?

Owen Shroyer (00:06:16.000)

Give or take? Currently about just over 100,000 A year after taxes

Bill Ogden (00:06:23.000)

after taxes and 100,000 take home.

Owen Shroyer (00:06:26.000)

I don't know the exact number. I think it's about I think before taxes, it's just over 120 after tax I think it's just right around 100

Dan (00:06:36.000)

Oh is not worth that.

Jordan (00:06:38.000)

Oh my god. I six figures for Owen Troyer.

Dan (00:06:41.000)

I can't believe that he's bringing in a commensurate amount of money.

Jordan (00:06:47.000)

I just can't. It's just I mean, come on. His

Dan (00:06:50.000)

value over replacement is low.

Jordan (00:06:52.000)

That is brutal. Yep. Yeah.

Dan (00:06:54.000)

Yeah, it is. Oh, man. But that's I guess how it works over there. Man. You just everybody makes about $100,000? That's it's just not fair. It's got to be shut up money.

Jordan (00:07:05.000)

Yeah, something along those lines. So

Dan (00:07:07.000)

sometimes you wonder about the how did you end up in this place? How did you get to Infowars? And we know a bit of Owens backstory. But we don't know the mechanics of it. Right. And so here we learn that Rob do might have been a little bit of a scout.

Bill Ogden (00:07:23.000)

Did you apply to Infowars? Did they reach out to you?

Owen Shroyer (00:07:26.000)

They reached out to me. And by they who was my first professional contact with Infowars, I'm guessing would have been from Rob do. Do you, Rob do from WHO? Rob who?

Bill Ogden (00:07:48.000)

And was that an email a call? Come meet you.

Owen Shroyer (00:07:52.000)

Maybe both. But the first request was to just do an interview on air. Then they asked if I wanted to come down for a interview for a job. And I came down to Austin for that. Summer of 2016. Good job and I accepted it.

Bill Ogden (00:08:11.000)

When you got when you accepted the job was was your job? What was your job description?

Owen Shroyer (00:08:17.000)

At the time, field reporter every once awhile I would do live fill in hosting live on air. I was doing a lot of video editing at the time then as well. So I would say as far as titles reporter, editor, journalist, yeah. Okay.

Bill Ogden (00:08:41.000)

And has your job changed? Since you've started?

Owen Shroyer (00:08:45.000)

far as the day to day? Yes. But there's never really been a professional title per se slapped on me.

Bill Ogden (00:08:53.000)

I guess what I'm asking as you sit here today, you're still a journalist, right?

Owen Shroyer (00:08:57.000)

Yeah, for the most part, I've still been doing the same thing.

Bill Ogden (00:09:00.000)

You said for the most part other than being a journalist. What else? What other things do you do? Well, I'm

Owen Shroyer (00:09:06.000)

just referring to on now live three hours a day versus back then. I may not have even been live one minute a day, just depending on the day.

Dan (00:09:16.000)

Sure. This does not become as big an issue as the argument about what is or is not a journalist. Because no one was actually saying something that makes sense. There is my job responsibilities have changed and as much as I'm on air a lot more now. Right. So that that seems pretty clear. So as we know, from listening to the show, around this time period, before Owen got hired, he was a guy who would call into Alex's show every now and again, not as a guest, but as just a random caller. At the same time, he was posting videos on YouTube where he would go and antagonize left leaning protesters, which was probably way more important for his portfolio than any of the sports journalism work he had done in the past very much. So if you go back to before he worked at Infowars, you can actually find some interesting things. For instance, you can find some coverage of him protesting police tyranny in the wake of the Michael Brown killing in Ferguson, Missouri, just outside his hometown of St. Louis. Interestingly, if you consult this press coverage, including an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you find that oh and wasn't totally forthcoming when Bill in this deposition asked him about his previous employment before he got to working at Infowars Oh, and since then, he was doing sports journalism, some youth development some odd jobs like wedding DJing. But there's something you didn't mention. It's probably not material as an omission. Like he was hiding something. But before Infowars Oh, and hosted a talk show from 10 to midnight on 1380 am in St. Louis. Okay. As is the case with a lot of radio stations. 1380 am went through a lot of format changes over the course of its lifetime. Sure, it had stretches in the top 40 station, a gospel outlet and a couple runs as sports talk. But just prior to 2014, it had one of the most bizarre radio formats I've ever heard. This station, with the call letters KF xn was a sister station with another talk station out of St. Louis. KF ns. These two stations decided to brand themselves, the man and the woman with each broadcasting talk radio shows they thought would appeal to either men or women.

Jordan (00:11:18.000)

I am excited to hear the results. Stan,

Dan (00:11:22.000)

it was a bad idea. Pretty fast. Yes. Who could have guessed? Okay. FNS was the man station but decided it would go back to a SportsTalk format after the flop, as did KX fn. But they ended up syndicating just Yahoo Sports feeds,

Jordan (00:11:38.000)

I've got a plan for you. Okay, how about we immediately exclude half

Dan (00:11:42.000)

of our audience? Well, there'll be listening to the other station who are owned by the same people. Right? Okay, so

Jordan (00:11:47.000)

then how about let's immediately exclude half of their audience. It's a great idea.

Dan (00:11:52.000)

So a little after this K ethics and decided to switch it up again. And they rebranded themselves as The X Extreme talk radio, the hope was appealed to, they wanted to appeal to like an edgier audience, or at least do an experiment to see if a station geared towards that edgy audience with something that could work for advertisers and breakeven or make profit. This was when Owen had a time slot on air. And if you take what he's saying in the St. Louis Post Dispatch article about his protesting in Ferguson at face value, he doesn't seem like he's necessarily the worst person you would encounter on an extreme talk station. He was out at the i 64. Overpass with a sign saying, quote, tyranny is here. And his goal was protesting the government overreach in the aftermath of the shooting. He told the papers that the protesters quote, don't deserve tear gas and guns pointed at them, which would sound fine if we didn't have natural suspicions based on where his career ended up leading it. Well, there's that the extreme talk station didn't work out, at least partially due to the complete chaos of the person running the company that owned the station, a guy named Dan Marshall,

Jordan (00:12:54.000)

would you say he might have been too extreme to

Dan (00:12:57.000)

multiple on air personalities, were willing to go on the record by name and talk shit to the Post Dispatch like Jay Randolph Jr, who described the atmosphere at the station like this quote, it's like nothing I've ever seen. It's like every man for himself. This was a guy

Jordan (00:13:12.000)

with a job. What?

Dan (00:13:15.000)

This was a guy with decades and radio behind him so the situation had been pretty.

Jordan (00:13:21.000)

I had to claw my way out of a closet what died because of

Dan (00:13:25.000)

fight your way out of there. In there in order to shoot went completely insane from there. There were allegations of people not being paid other among other unsavory reports about Marshalls leadership, but some people sided with martial and there was a bit of a civil war that broke out between the two sides. Naturally, one host on K FNS, a guy named Charlie Tuna, who was black became the target of some racially insensitive comments made by Nick true piano, a KX fn host who was upset the tuna didn't like Marshall, while true piano did. True piano also ridiculed Brian McKenna, another KX FM host who had spoke out against Marshall. This led to McKenna showing up at K FNS and trying to fight true piano I love it. Security intervened quote, however, a short time later, McKenna and Marshall got into a fistfight. Wow,

Jordan (00:14:13.000)

naturally, yes. You can't follow him around the rest of the day, though. He wasn't

Dan (00:14:17.000)

fighting. He went to fight the host and then ended up fist fighting footballs.

Jordan (00:14:25.000)

Remarkable Oh, so the host why didn't they succeed?

Dan (00:14:29.000)

Those got into a literal fistfight with the station manager. And when reached for comment, Marshall said, quote, I spent the night in the hospital he spent the night in jail. You can draw your own conclusions about what happened.

Jordan (00:14:44.000)

This is chaos. That is that is a quote. Yeah, it is a fucking quote

Dan (00:14:48.000)

from the boss. I'll give you that 111 Owens experience working in an environment like this made him think that the way Alex acts towards his employees is somehow normal or acceptable, and it's hard not to see parallel Oh,

Jordan (00:15:00.000)

this is like a weird daddy. Like I'm trying to recreate the issues that I was born in in order to fit comfortable when

Dan (00:15:07.000)

I'm working for a completely monster insane verza anyway Oh, it wasn't there long because this whole extreme talk thing didn't last more than like six months before the station went back to a sports format and then eventually just started leasing the airtime out. And then eventually they outright sold to Salem media.

Jordan (00:15:23.000)

Who started a women only show they didn't know they didn't they have

Dan (00:15:26.000)

proof that failed. Long story short, this story is a fascinating piece of Americana, a tale of completely out of control work environments where Oh, and spent time that may or may not in some small way illustrate why he puts up with Alex's clearly abusive managerial style. It is kind of funny. Does it matter in terms of this deposition? Now? Probably not. But I think the story is great. And explaining it was one of the only ways that I can introduce one of the greatest things I found in preparing this episode. Okay. Oh, one has been kicked off a lot online platforms but one that he hasn't been booted from and he probably doesn't even realize he's still on SoundCloud. As fate would have it in 2016. He posted a demo reel on SoundCloud. Do auditioning for a job it didn't

Jordan (00:16:09.000)

do not tell me that this is his audition reel for info.

Dan (00:16:13.000)

It's hard to tell if this was something Rob do asked him to do or if he did it just to get Rob's attention in the first place. But either way, this thing is amazing. Wow. On one level, it's painfully transparent as an attempt on Owens part to do an Alex impression. But on the other hand, it's also a recording of an idiot complaining about nothing getting mad for no reason hire him. I honestly can't tell if these are clips from his KX FM show or if he just recorded himself in his free time. But I choose to believe it's the latter because that image is really funny. Very funny. So I'm not gonna I'm gonna play a few clips here because the whole thing is 20 minutes long, and no one but me should have to sift through all of that. It's too long for a demo reel. Yes, that's a good start anywhere other than Infowars would have seen the runtime and been like that's going in the trash three

Jordan (00:16:56.000)

minutes or less. But Oh, good. You wish you had three minutes? They'll they'll fucking turn that thing off after five seconds.

Dan (00:17:03.000)

Yeah, I remember when I was trying to get into voiceover work. It was like you have a minute. Yeah. If that?

Jordan (00:17:08.000)

No, I went to I had a whole recording session. I did the whole thing. And all the experience. People were like, that was great. You're never going to get hired by anybody stop it.

Dan (00:17:18.000)

Yep. screechie weird, you idiot. So I will say one thing I want comes out the gate pretty hot mic down for all of this, because just a whole show. No, just the demo clips because you're going to get some of it's pretty amazing. Okay,

Owen Shroyer (00:17:33.000)

every game. They salute a veteran. They, they they, you know, give them tickets to the game. And then during a break, they put the camera on them. The pa pa guy comes on and says, salute to the veterans, you know, so and so. Give him a round of applause. And of course, just like the conditioning, everybody stands up and cheers, you know, and if you don't, everybody looks at you weird or kind of, you know, says you're a jerk or whatever. How about instead of just putting them on camera and standing up and cheering like a bunch of vapid morons?

Owen Shroyer (00:18:06.000)

Why don't we give them a mic? Let's give them 30 seconds or a minute to speak their mind about that? Well, we can't have that. We don't know what they might say. Oh, political correctness.

Dan (00:18:19.000)

Yeah. Let the veteran speak at the game. Are you they want to or they probably don't want to?

Jordan (00:18:25.000)

Was he reading a transcript of Alex's show? Like two days before this? I could. That's absolutely. Russia. No. Oh, no. It's

Dan (00:18:33.000)

very clear. Yeah. It's it's more transparent than his current work. Certainly. Yeah. And that's weird, because it feels like he's doing an impression now. Yeah. But he's he was doing a much more poorly disguised version. realist point.

Jordan (00:18:46.000)

How about that? How about we just tell him to do it? Hmm.

Dan (00:18:49.000)

I don't know why you're mad. Do you know a bunch of veterans? Very few. You met on their behalf? complaint that I've never heard anybody make? Yep. Never ever once. That's pretty sweet. Ah, so here this next clip is proof that Owen is brave. And he's a man of action.

Owen Shroyer (00:19:11.000)

Trying to wake people up. I'm sick of these theoretical elite just sitting on us. But just slaves because they get a you know what? Where's my wall? This is a this is a $1. Bill. Okay. See this? This is worth nothing. Got a lighter in here. Somebody bring me some five. Federal Reserve. No, the Federal Reserve is a ROB child secret bank.

Dan (00:19:40.000)

So it's fun. Oh, he's willing to performatively threatened to burn a $1 bill. also willing to spread lies and bullshit for Alex in exchange for 100,000 of those bills. You see it's principle

Jordan (00:19:51.000)

and it's all about principle.

Dan (00:19:52.000)

Yeah. I love that. Give me a line or somebody give me fire.

Jordan (00:19:55.000)

Oh my God, because I

Dan (00:19:57.000)

like to imagine that he is just recording this on his own and his House yelling to nobody

Jordan (00:20:01.000)

nobody's around him. Yeah, this is this is like very, very much an Alex Jones depression. It is it is a I mean, I would almost be offended if I were Alex, if I were Alex listening to this I'd be like, oh my god is that what people think I sound like?

Dan (00:20:16.000)

Well, unless you were specifically trying to find a younger version of yourself right? You'd

Jordan (00:20:20.000)

be like, oh my god that's what people think I sound like Well,

Dan (00:20:24.000)

yeah, if you're Alex you kind of have to deal with that early Yeah, he's troubled the boy past that. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, I think I think if you're like, I don't know. Considering the possibility of needing an acolyte or something like that. Maybe you like Oh, I see myself in him right boom. He also has more complaints about the dollar bill um, make you believe that

Owen Shroyer (00:20:44.000)

is the all I love the pyramid on the back. Why is there a pyramid on the back of the dollar bill? Why is there the all ever watching eye over the pyramid on the dollar bill?

Owen Shroyer (00:20:59.000)

Stop it's not Illuminati. You can't just see a triangle and say it's Illuminati.

Owen Shroyer (00:21:07.000)

In God, we trust separation of church and state. That's that's just totally Of course. This

Owen Shroyer (00:21:11.000)

isn't state. That's my point. This is a private British banker. Oh, do you like your little route? Routes dollar? Okay, you little slaves? Yes. Keep working.

Dan (00:21:29.000)

He can really see the Alex impression there. Yeah, that's, that's painful. Yeah, the sound of him rustling with the paper. That's a direct Alex impression even though Alex is just doing an impression of Rush Limbaugh when he does it. The weird character work. That's straight up Alex though. And I love how he's like, ah, separation of church. Oh, but that's, oh, my god, it's so awesome. Because you can see the mind working in a way that like you could have prepared, you could have got your thoughts together or whatever. But instead, you backed into that point that you didn't intend to make.

Jordan (00:22:01.000)

I I'm gonna throw this out there. I think I have a theory on this. That is He is actually reading Infowars transcripts after having listened to the clips and trying to do the exact same thing. Hmm, that's my theory on there. Because the timing of all of that the absolute change of the tone of voice, volume, control, dynamic. All of that suggests to me that he's listened to Alex say exactly

Dan (00:22:27.000)

that. Alex is going to take the time to be like, why? Well, we let veteran speak at football games, though. Why? I don't know. I just that's

Jordan (00:22:37.000)

one of his issues. That one might not be I think that one was maybe.

Dan (00:22:41.000)

But he also has more complaints about the dollar. Well, that's true.

Owen Shroyer (00:22:44.000)

Instead of having like some great quote from Washington, or like George Washington's called arms to the colonies, or like a powerful quote from Thomas Jefferson, like I have sworn upon the altar of God to fight irony. No, it's a new can Cephus

Owen Shroyer (00:23:04.000)

Novus Ordo so quorum I don't speak, decide go. I'm an American.

Dan (00:23:14.000)

He's mad at Latin.

Jordan (00:23:15.000)

Okay. All right. So are we new theory? This is an open mic that I luckily missed somewhere around 2016.

Dan (00:23:24.000)

Yeah. Angry conspiracy open. But what is a demo tape for Infowars? Other than that, yeah, that's that's essentially exactly.

Jordan (00:23:32.000)

Bad complaints about jokes that people told 30 years ago. Yeah, that makes sense.

Dan (00:23:37.000)

So I got one more clip here from his demo tape. And it's just really to illustrate Owens chops. Look,

Owen Shroyer (00:23:43.000)

obviously it can get worse. But as far as in your face, it really can't get any worse anymore. It is all in your face. right in your face.

Owen Shroyer (00:24:02.000)

I mean, just, I mean, it's in your face,

Dan (00:24:05.000)

for some reason. Oh, and decided to include a meaningless clip in his demo reel where he says it's in your face four times and 22 seconds. It's in your face. He got the job. It's in your face. That's a complete indictment of his skill as a broadcaster and Alex is obviously shallow applicant pool. Love it. Alright, sorry about that sidetrack. I just couldn't help myself. I'm

Jordan (00:24:24.000)

I'm not going to be able to get over how many times he said in your face in your face in your face.

Dan (00:24:29.000)

I will guarantee you he does not say it in this deposition at all. He does not accuse things of being in your face. So we're in the clear. Now

Jordan (00:24:37.000)

all I can say is that just by that demo is a demo reel. I can tell you

Dan (00:24:44.000)

that guy is going to be working at Infowars I would look at that guy. You got the good ship for Info Wars. You knew. I would look at that guy. And I'd be like, You know what, in six years you're gonna get sued. Gotta have All right, so the deposition begins. have been talking about friendship. Sure. Because what is the most important thing in the world? Friendship? You bet.

Bill Ogden (00:25:06.000)

How's your relationship with Mr. Jones?

Owen Shroyer (00:25:09.000)

I wouldn't say good. I mean, there's elements of friendship and then there's elements of boss and employee, but

Bill Ogden (00:25:14.000)

he's my dad. Okay. Would you consider him your best friend? No. Does he consider you his best friend? I doubt it.

Dan (00:25:23.000)

That's a weird. It's a weird

Jordan (00:25:26.000)

question, Bill. Yeah. What a weird question, man. It's a little little. Do like that almost idea of what because what is, what is that? We're gonna say, is he gonna say? Yeah, Alex thinks, Yeah, Alex probably thinks I'm his best friend

Dan (00:25:40.000)

well introduced.

Jordan (00:25:41.000)

I don't think Alex is my best friend introduces

Dan (00:25:43.000)

the question of does he? Yeah.

Jordan (00:25:48.000)

What's going on right now?

Dan (00:25:49.000)

So when Rob do comes up, this question is asked again. Do you have

Bill Ogden (00:25:53.000)

other than Alex Jones? Do you have a direct boss?

Owen Shroyer (00:25:57.000)

I would say if, if there was one, it would be. Rob do but but not not. Not really.

Bill Ogden (00:26:06.000)

And are, you and Mr. Do have a personal relationship as well as professional relationship like Mr. Jones? Yes. Are your best friends? No. You gotta be confused.

Jordan (00:26:18.000)

I think that's what he's doing. That's my theory on Bill. Why I think Bill is deliberately just throwing this shit around. Probably. Yeah. Just to like fuck with Owens head.

Dan (00:26:27.000)

I would assume so. Yeah, I would assume so. Yeah.

Jordan (00:26:32.000)

Who is your best friend?

Dan (00:26:36.000)

named Dan Marshall.

Jordan (00:26:37.000)

Make you think that's the next question. Like who's your best friend?

Dan (00:26:40.000)

I did expect something to come in. But it just leads to the conclusion of us walking with it. Yeah. And I think that's pretty fun. So the issue with Owen is he was hosting for Alex on a Sunday show. And someone just gave him an article that he used to allege that Neil Heslin could not have held his son after the shooting, right. That's the reason he's in trouble. Yeah, I've done that. And unfortunately, it turns out, Alex, Alex, turns out Oh, and doesn't remember who gave him the article? That's not good.

Bill Ogden (00:27:15.000)

How did you learn about that article?

Owen Shroyer (00:27:19.000)

It was presented to me that day as I was on air, by who? I do not recall.

Bill Ogden (00:27:26.000)

Okay, so you got it after four o'clock? Yes. And when it was presented to you, did they just hand you a copy of the article?

Owen Shroyer (00:27:36.000)

Pretty much. I mean, my best recollection, and this is, you know, just trying to dig into my memory is, I'm in studio, someone comes in, says, Hey, here's a story. We also have the video clips for it. And, and then we're live. And I mentioned the story and

Bill Ogden (00:27:53.000)

show the video. Okay, so who handed it to you? I do not recall.

Dan (00:27:58.000)

That's not good. No, because at the core of this, you have bad information that was given to you. And now you're on the hook for it, because you reported it. And you know, it could conceivably help thin out the blame if you know who was responsible for giving you this information. And this becomes a compounded problem, because he's asked who could have given it to you? And it's basically like, my just anyone.

Bill Ogden (00:28:25.000)

Sunday show you're filming it? I'm assuming Mr. Jones is not present in studio.

Owen Shroyer (00:28:30.000)

That's my understanding. Yeah, if I'm filling in most likely, yeah. Okay.

Bill Ogden (00:28:33.000)

And who has the authority, if he's not there, to find a story, cut a number of clips, and do a small segment and hand it to you and give you the authority to go with it live.

Owen Shroyer (00:28:49.000)

I wouldn't say anybody has that authority. If not really like an authority figure that has decided that anybody can bring me a story. At any given time, there's not going to be somebody that tries to stop me from reading it or try to stop somebody from bringing me a story.

Dan (00:29:06.000)

There should be quality control, there should be a certain amount of like, that's not the proper channel, you shouldn't be able to have like the boom mic operator, give a story directly to the host. And then they report it, you know, the boom mic operator, maybe you should talk to the news director or something, right, who's able to vet and like be like, oh, yeah, here, I'll pass this along. You're not in the moment giving them obviously a nice open door policy is nice, or the input of people who one should be allowed to speak their mind. But there needs to be quality control, Robert, on some level.

Jordan (00:29:38.000)

I mean, I would say that if I were in a deposition of this kind of magnitude, my first instinct would be avoid saying something along the lines of really when you get down to it, everybody's involved equally well, but here's

Dan (00:29:51.000)

the problem with answering any other way than what he said, right? If you say, well, there are XY and Z people, then you narrow down who it could be? And then the questioning continues down that road. Got it? And I'm like, Well, why wasn't it this person? Do you know it wasn't? There we go Don Salazar. You know, it wasn't Nico, or whatever. And you know it that leads to more trouble. It's better just be like fucking anybody anybody could

Jordan (00:30:15.000)

have done? Yeah, no, but it's could have no, actually, you know what, I think it was a complete stranger who just broke into our office, it'd be handed me this story. I read it out loud, because that's how this job work could have been. It was definitely an Tifa. So we know

Dan (00:30:31.000)

from covering past depositions that Alex has said to have told people to not cover Sandy Hook after a certain point, right. So the question is asked, Oh, and as Alex ever told you not to cover anything question. And it turns out, no.

Bill Ogden (00:30:47.000)

Has he ever told you not to cover a certain story?

Owen Shroyer (00:30:53.000)

Not that I recall. Okay. So

Bill Ogden (00:30:55.000)

if you wanted right now, to go in studio when you leave here and do a whole segment about how you think Sandy Hook hook, or Sandy Hook is a hoax, you could do that

Owen Shroyer (00:31:05.000)

objection for? I could, and I, my guess is I would get quite a tongue lashing afterwards.

Bill Ogden (00:31:10.000)

But he wouldn't stop.

Owen Shroyer (00:31:14.000)

The mic is on the cameras on we're live. I mean, other than coming in studio to tackle me, or turning it off? No.

Dan (00:31:20.000)

I think this is a terrible workflow.

Jordan (00:31:23.000)

I am amazed that they can function. Yeah. I mean, really, it is it is a testament not to their skills at anything that they are supposed to be doing.

Dan (00:31:34.000)

And it's Oh, and not does he not recognize that they have a delay. Now, like, because they when I guess they may not for the internet, but like for the radio stations. They can bleep cuss words. They do that periodically. So like, I don't know, like, there has to be some kind of a delay. That's possible. If he starts going off about how Sandy Hook is fake. They could just hit a button. Yeah,

Jordan (00:31:54.000)

you've got to fuck an earpiece. They hit a button. They stop you and then something goes goes away. Yeah,

Dan (00:32:00.000)

yeah. I think it's a terrible organization to speak. Anybody can give me whatever information they want to say it. Right. And also, you can't stop me without tackling the or cutting the feed. Right. Right. This is this is a recipe for it's not good for defamation. It does.

Jordan (00:32:15.000)

Like as they are describing how their business works. It is a business entirely geared towards eventually being sued for defamation.

Dan (00:32:25.000)

Yep, it's sloppy. Yeah. I mean, our last episode, we talked about, you know, like the kit revealed so much about the editorial inner workings of how these articles are written and how they're used. Here you see in like, the live show, and how Fuck yeah, it is in terms of the structure. This is ridiculous. Yeah. And it turns out, it's it's not that common. That Owen just reads whatever someone hands him.

Bill Ogden (00:32:47.000)

What happened here is not a normal occurrence.

Owen Shroyer (00:32:52.000)

Direction for him? I mean, I would say yes, and no, it's a normal occurrence in that it's a new story. We're live news organization, there's constantly news coming in and out of my desk. But, you know, I would also say, No, it's not. It's not like, every day or every segment, someone says, Hey, here's this news story. It's breaking right now.

Bill Ogden (00:33:14.000)

Right. But what I'm saying is not common is the fact that you're live on air. And somebody hands you documents, as we're running with this, we got clips ready to go. That's not a common occurrence. Usually, it's something that is fact checked, you see the different video clips that you're going through, and you're prepared for it.

Owen Shroyer (00:33:32.000)

Yeah, I mean, in this instance, it's really just kind of a momentum thing, you know, because talent, let's say there's a developing story, don't offer an example. You know, like, just the other day we had somebody run somebody over with a with a vehicle, right? So there's an ongoing story. You know, somebody was bringing me stuff, as I'm on air just updates to the story. In this case, the reason why there was momentum to this is because Megyn Kelly was just in town. She was in the news. So there was already all this momentum about Megyn Kelly, we saw that she was in the Zero Hedge article, and that's why they brought it to me

Bill Ogden (00:34:05.000)

was any was any other retaliatory for Miss Kelly's portrayal of Mr. Jones and her interview with him the week before? A couple of weeks before?

Owen Shroyer (00:34:15.000)

I can't even recall the dates if that aired before after the segment in question here. So I wouldn't say retaliatory I would just say it was it was irrelevant.

Dan (00:34:28.000)

This is This is weird. That's a weird perspective. Yeah, not knowing when things happen, because there's just a concrete reality as is brought up in this next clip is like his video was responding to Megan Kelly's video

Jordan (00:34:43.000)

about Alex, how did you do that? Prior to her right, I

Dan (00:34:46.000)

understand that we can all see through the veil of illusion in the right. Everyone's a psychic, but this is just not possible.

Bill Ogden (00:34:55.000)

Have you watched the video on question? Which video? The Five Minute Video We're you're on air talking about Neil Heslin. Son. Yes. When was the last time you watched it?

Owen Shroyer (00:35:06.000)

During my latest deposition in a Connecticut case?

Bill Ogden (00:35:10.000)

Okay. And in that video, surely you realize that I don't know 75% of it is the Megyn Kelly interview that happened before you went on air? You're talking about the Megan Kelly interview?

Owen Shroyer (00:35:24.000)

Yeah, I believe she was interviewing Mr. Heslin.

Bill Ogden (00:35:27.000)

Right. And so it cleared it up. Because you said I don't remember if the Megan Kelly interview came out before? Well, I

Owen Shroyer (00:35:32.000)

guess what I should have said is I'm not aware of it was the same Megyn Kelly show.

Dan (00:35:36.000)

Gotcha. That's, that's a bad. That's a bad dog.

Jordan (00:35:40.000)

All right, I guess what I should have said is that, and this is something that not a lot of people know, space and time are one thing. And if you put enough energy into the sinkhole of space time, then it's possible to pierce through create a wormhole and go back in time, or really forward in time, the wormhole could go anywhere. The point I'm saying is that I got there four days ago.

Dan (00:36:04.000)

Does that work? So we're holes aside, I think that Owen has a pretty bad explanation for sure what he was trying to say in this video. But I think he thinks it sounds good. I think he thinks this is very exculpatory. And it's nonsense.

Bill Ogden (00:36:26.000)

Do you remember what you said in the video? Yes. Okay. Did you use the word possible?

Owen Shroyer (00:36:32.000)

I believe so. I don't remember the exact quote.

Bill Ogden (00:36:34.000)

Do you remember what you're talking about? No, you were talking about a dead six year old. Okay. And you said it was impossible for that six year old father, to have held his son with a bullet hole in his head based on what you had read had read and received.

Owen Shroyer (00:36:51.000)

My conclusion was not that that was impossible. My conclusion was that the series of events that I highlight in the videos would indicate that there is an inconsistency there. And I was more questioning Megyn Kelly, in the instance, and if you look at the exact quote, I'm not asserting that Mr. Heslin lied at all. What I'm asserting is that Megyn Kelly never did a fact check. And that that it was basically impossible. Or that it was I should say, what I should say is, and again, this is inserted in the quote that, because of the inconsistencies shown in the story, it's going to add to the conspiracy theories about Sandy Hook, which are a bad thing. Wow, my entire notion was that here, that fancy lawyer, for conspiracy theories out there, they're going to take this and they're gonna run with it will Megyn Kelly fact check it

Bill Ogden (00:37:45.000)

out? Let me I understand, you're saying you were asking questions, right. And at the end of it, I think you say, you know, that people want answers to these questions. You remember that?

Owen Shroyer (00:37:56.000)

Yeah. And again, I'm saying that this story is only going to add to the conspiracy theorists out there about Sandy Hook, and that that's a bad thing.

Bill Ogden (00:38:04.000)

And you're saying that because those conspiracy theorists are the ones asking the questions, right?

Owen Shroyer (00:38:10.000)

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

Bill Ogden (00:38:12.000)

You said conspiracy theorists have have a lot of questions. And we want answers. Right? Yeah, I

Owen Shroyer (00:38:19.000)

would say people have questions. And these this story here is not going to stop people from asking the questions,

Dan (00:38:26.000)

people like you who. So there's excuses, obvious bullshit. But there's a couple of remarkable things that are on full display here. The first is that Owen is so clearly grasping at straws to explain his video, which is a very strong indication that he knows that the content he was involved in putting out was horrible and indefensible. In order to make it defensible. You have to pretend it with something else entirely. The second thing is at the beginning, oh, and tries to evade the question by saying he didn't remember his exact quote. But then when he's trying to build a rationalization for what he said, When you know, it wasn't actually bad. He appeals to how people need to look at the exact quote, in the space of about a minute he went from not remembering what he said to insisting everyone judge him by the exact wording of what he said. It's painfully obvious what game he's playing. Yeah. The underlying point that I was trying to make is that he wasn't saying that Neil Heslin couldn't have held his on after the shooting. He was saying that Mr. Heslin is claim made on making Kelly's show was impossible if the video and played of the new town coroner was accurate. Oh, and it's claiming that his point was that this is an inconsistency that Megan Kelly did in fact, check for her piece. And because of that, it'll feed into conspiracies, which Oh, one is pretending as a bad thing, as opposed to the only reason anyone would pay him $100,000 A year. Yeah, this is obvious nonsense. And we'll get into why over the course of a few clips.

Jordan (00:39:43.000)

No, I think Bill is gonna buy it. I think he's just gonna accept that. That is a well crafted, definitely not in completely improvised bullshit on the fly. Yeah, yep.

Dan (00:39:55.000)

So Bill throws out a quote from Oh, and since you know, we got to use the Words, right? Yeah. Words.

Bill Ogden (00:40:02.000)

I'm gonna read you a direct quote real quick. He's claiming he is Mr. Heslin grieving father, he is claiming that he held his son and saw the bullet hole in his head. That is his claim. Now, according to a timeline of events and a coroner's testimony, that is not possible. So surely you can agree with me that a reasonable person would hear you say that, and in think that you are basing the possibility conclusion on the evidence that you are looking at? Right?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:36.000)

Objection form?

Owen Shroyer (00:40:39.000)

I'm not sure I understand the question exactly. But that I believe what what I'm saying is, according to the coroner, the coroner said that they didn't release the children to the parents.

Bill Ogden (00:40:53.000)

Well, I'm gonna ask you this. And you're basing that off of the clips that you played during the segment, right? Yes.

Dan (00:41:00.000)

So here is the fundamental piece of this why Owens argument doesn't work. And it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny. But oh, and has to hold on to this for dear life. Oh, yeah. Because otherwise he has nothing he's fucked. And that is that the coroner's video is accurate.

Jordan (00:41:17.000)

Right. It's funny. I think I heard Mark whisper.

Dan (00:41:22.000)

Possibly, much like you heard Black Swan. Yeah. So bill tries to explain to Oh, and the nature of what happened with this coroner's video, and it doesn't stick in your

Bill Ogden (00:41:35.000)

affidavit. You. You. You claim Miss Kelly, edited videos to slam Mr. Jones, you remember that? No, I don't. Do you think? Yeah. Do you think it's right for a journalist to edit clips for an agenda? No. Okay. Do you think it's good journalistic practice for a journalist to take edited videos, not ask any questions and run with them without fact checking them first?

Owen Shroyer (00:42:11.000)

Probably not.

Bill Ogden (00:42:12.000)

Have you listened to the corner? Mr. Carver? Dr. Carver? Have you listened to his whole interview? Because the I'll represent to you the segment that you played, cuts off immediately after he says he didn't release the children. But I want to tell you that it keeps going. And he says a lot more. Did you know that? No, it's kind of an important fact. Right?

Owen Shroyer (00:42:35.000)

Yes, I wasn't aware of that.

Bill Ogden (00:42:36.000)

Especially if you were about to say what you said about a father who was still trying to get over the fact that he had to bury a child.

Owen Shroyer (00:42:43.000)

And that's awful. And I understand and that's why I said it's impossible for Mr. headland have a false memory of his dying kid because of how serious that would be that I'm making is that nice? Try and have that false memory. So according to the coroner, either the coroner is lying, or Megyn Kelly's just not going to fact check it,

Bill Ogden (00:43:00.000)

or Mr. Shroyer didn't watch the whole coroner's interview in here. The coroner say that he didn't release them at first and later released the bodies. Maybe that's the third option, right?

Owen Shroyer (00:43:16.000)

We'll share that that can be true.

Bill Ogden (00:43:18.000)

It can't be true. It is true. Mr. Shroyer you understand that right?

Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.000)

Objection form. Okay.

Dan (00:43:25.000)

He can say okay that he understands this, but he can't actually internalize this and operate under that absolute piece of information, because then it casts his entire broadcast in a completely different light, if he allows that awareness to exist. And so this notion that the coroner actually made a statement that they didn't release the bodies is is something worth believing? And that Megan Kelly has an obligation to address Yeah, yes, it's, it's insanity.

Jordan (00:43:56.000)

Have you ever considered that everything is everybody else's fault, and I am a blameless person trying to do my best to save the world?

Dan (00:44:04.000)

Well, I believe in something completely nonsensical and based on bullshit, right, everyone else has an obligation to, in any circumstance, disprove that they are lying when they are engaging in inconsistencies in a cover up.

Jordan (00:44:18.000)

What I would like the entirety of the human race to know is that it is your job to accommodate my whims at all times. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,

Dan (00:44:26.000)

definitely makes the idea. So obviously, there is an internal problem with responsibility at Info Wars. People aren't really given appropriate feedback. People aren't scolded when they do something awful. And so the question comes up, and no one ever tells you you fucked up. Anyone ever and employees ever tell you Oh, you were wrong.

Jordan (00:44:50.000)

I don't want to

Bill Ogden (00:44:52.000)

work with Mr. Jones or Mr. Do about this litigation at all.

Owen Shroyer (00:44:56.000)

Not Not too much no

Bill Ogden (00:45:01.000)

has no one on the on the dozens of people and lawyers, no one has come to you and told you that what you said was dead wrong. And that you messed up and used a clip that was highly edited.

Owen Shroyer (00:45:17.000)

Never an agenda. No. And I didn't edit the clip. I did not previously view the clip. It was presented to me and you just went with it. Yes, I just played it, right.

Dan (00:45:27.000)

Yep. No one ever told him a that's bad work. You screwed up.

Jordan (00:45:31.000)

I don't even know how to handle this. Yeah, everything that we learn about how Info Wars actually functions, makes me believe that there's no possible way it can function. Yeah,

Dan (00:45:41.000)

it really leads you think like, may they have been so lucky that someone didn't like really fuck with them? Like someone get a job there and just cause chaos. Oh, really? Because it seems like there's no save could have been easily done. Yeah, yeah. There is no there is no accountability. Anyone can just feed stories to people. Yep. It's It seems it's bananas. It seems like they the odds of them not falling victim to some internal kind of complete sabotage is is outrageous. This is

Jordan (00:46:15.000)

This is nuts. I think it's one of those things where it is one of those things where everybody just assumes because it would be ridiculous for it to be possible that this place function, so everybody just assumes like, well, there's there's got to be some sort of control. There's gotta be somebody in charge. There's gotta be somebody doing something. Right? And the answer is no. No. Just no.

Dan (00:46:38.000)

It doesn't seem like maybe you're from like a business and like, fulfillment. Like though the warehouse

Jordan (00:46:44.000)

warehouse is fucking run like a goddamn tight knit factory.

Dan (00:46:48.000)

There's accountability. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But in terms of the information now, it's kinda kind of sloppy tip of the spear. So Jordan, let me ask you a question. Yes. How many times you've been arrested? Um, none. Okay, well, that's lower than Owen.

Bill Ogden (00:47:01.000)

You ever been arrested? Yes. How many times?

Owen Shroyer (00:47:05.000)

I'm not sure the exact number.

Jordan (00:47:08.000)

Wrong answer.

Bill Ogden (00:47:09.000)

You have you have been arrested. You've just lost count of how many times? Yeah. Is it common for you to get arrested?

Owen Shroyer (00:47:17.000)

not common, but probably too much more than I'd like to admit.

Dan (00:47:23.000)

That's just kind of a fun clip. It turns out, it's not really that scandalous or anything. He's got like a DUI and then, you know, tried to stop the impeachment trial. Well, that'll happen. And then he tried to overthrow the government. Okay, well, there's that one. Those there are a few of them. But it's not like he had like a giant rap sheet. Yeah, St. Louis days or whatever.

Jordan (00:47:43.000)

I mean, when you say I can't really remember how many times I've been arrested, it leads

Dan (00:47:47.000)

you to believe it's more than like three or four, you would think yeah, it's not

Jordan (00:47:51.000)

really arresting is usually a pretty serious, traumatic event.

Dan (00:47:55.000)

Yeah. So at this point, we get to the affidavit that Oh, and filed, right, which he should not have done? Well, you have to right. At the beginning of it is a little bit funny.

Bill Ogden (00:48:06.000)

Let's go back to exhibit one. Half a day, we will go down to paragraph two. Right.

Bill Ogden (00:48:17.000)

It says I have been a frequent critic of the government for using tragedies such as Sandy Hook to manipulate public opinion in order to, among other things, further restrict gun rights in this country. I read that correctly. Yes. Okay. What do you mean by manipulate public opinion?

Owen Shroyer (00:48:42.000)

I mean, use, I mean, just outright lies to deceive the public.

Bill Ogden (00:48:50.000)

Okay. And so this sentence you're not saying the government use Sandy Hook to use outright lies to deceive the public, you're saying that you are a frequent critic of the government for using tragedies to manipulate to outright lie? Yes. Okay. Like what?

Owen Shroyer (00:49:11.000)

Gulf of Tonkin? Oh, my God, getting us into the Vietnam War, lying about babies being thrown out of incubators to get us into the Middle East.

Bill Ogden (00:49:20.000)

Let's back up real quick. You're a frequent critic of the government for things that happened somewhere between 35 and 70 years ago. Yes. Okay. Was that come up in conversation?

Owen Shroyer (00:49:35.000)

What do you mean, exactly?

Bill Ogden (00:49:37.000)

What causes you to be a frequent critic for things like the Gulf of Tonkin, and why we got into the Vietnam War? I

Owen Shroyer (00:49:45.000)

mean, I believe it's an issue that's never been properly addressed.

Jordan (00:49:49.000)

Is it? Is that the case? Oh, boy, you know, I that whole Gulf of Tonkin thing. I don't think anybody ever really dealt with it. Yeah. We haven't emotionally dealt with it. Yeah. It says the fallout from that is still at I wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and he's like, oh, we'll talk

Dan (00:50:03.000)

meanwhile, oh, and it'd be like, never talked about slavery ever, ever. We've dealt with it. It's over. Tonkin, we re litigate a million times over. i That's, I love that. Like, this is the phrasing that Oh, and thought was gonna be really perfect. Yeah. And it's just so farcical when repeated back to him. Yeah. How are you a frequent critic of the Gulf of Tonkin?

Jordan (00:50:24.000)

It is it is such that like, they don't, here's, here's what it is, here's what it's so clear about it is that Alex has fucked with these people's brains, or they never had it to the point where words can be just fun, you know, like, adjectives don't need to have meaning. They're just, they're, they're just like music notes. Like, what he's saying is that we don't say words that have any meaning whatsoever. We put together sounds that make a functioning noise sphere that makes people afraid. So they buy our shit. That's true

Dan (00:50:57.000)

from an external perspective, but from an internal perspective, like within the company, like everything is just fine. Like, whatever explanation you have for something if it's expedient, if it works, right, fine, right? There is no knife sharpening knife here. No, that does not sharpen.

Jordan (00:51:17.000)

No, but it's like, I've never had such a clear moment of like, Oh, you don't mean, you don't use words, you don't understand words. Like you can't say, I have been a frequent critic, critic, but unless you are saying that it I mean, in a legal setting, you have to explain.

Dan (00:51:35.000)

But but it seems like an impression of what someone would say exactly in the same way that his demo tape is an impression.

Jordan (00:51:42.000)

Actually, it is such that like, this is what this is what I'm approximating what a normal person would say here. Right? Yeah. Amazing.

Dan (00:51:50.000)

So the question then is refined to All right. What are these instances where the government use these tragedies to restrict gun rights? Right? And shock of all shocks? What's going on? Oh, one has a tough time coming up with why

Bill Ogden (00:52:04.000)

what did the government do and Sandy Hook to further restrict gun rights?

Owen Shroyer (00:52:11.000)

I don't have to ask for that. We swore

Bill Ogden (00:52:13.000)

to God in your after, David, that you're a frequent critic of the government using them to further gun rights, restrictions of gun rights,

Unknown Speaker (00:52:22.000)

objection form, and swear to God,

Bill Ogden (00:52:25.000)

I looked at what's included. So help me God, I apologize. You swore under oath, that this was true. And you said that they use things like Sandy Hook was what I'm asking about, to further restrict gun rights in this country. What did the government do in Sandy Hook to further restrict gun rights in this country?

Owen Shroyer (00:52:49.000)

Well, you're asking me to go back and provide an opinion or commentary on something that I didn't provide opinion or commentary on at the time, I was not at Infowars. When Sandy Hook happened, I did no commentary on it. When it happened. It was not even relevant news story to me. But what I recall is, and this seems to be the case, most of the time is whenever there's a gun tragedy, maybe less now than other times, there's politicians that go on TV and say we need new gun laws, we need new gun restrictions. And that's just that seems to be a pattern of behavior.

Bill Ogden (00:53:25.000)

Okay. But Mike, and I understand that you weren't there for this initial Sandy Hook coverage. But you just wanted growth. This was this was your words. And you said that the government uses things like Sandy Hook to manipulate public opinion to further restrict gun rights. I'm just asking you how

Owen Shroyer (00:53:46.000)

they take a tragedy, like kids getting shot in a school, and they say, because of that event, we're going to further infringe on your Second Amendment right? For an event that you had nothing to do with.

Bill Ogden (00:54:00.000)

Why did they do that in Sandy Hook? When did they do what who who said, Sandy Hook happened and we're going to restrict your Second Amendment who said that? Give me an example.

Owen Shroyer (00:54:11.000)

I couldn't give you an example. Seems like a problem.

Dan (00:54:13.000)

Oh, that's an issue seems like something you should be able to point out. I love it. It's again, it's like kit. Yeah. What stories have you gotten Right? Right. Who many to name right. There's many politicians who have restricted gun rights.

Jordan (00:54:26.000)

I do like Bills, Bills very clearly got this, this very obvious point. That Oh, and has no idea is coming towards him. Right. Like he's very clearly dismantling the idea that you the politicians are doing what it is you're saying they're doing and eventually he's going to just simply give him his own words that will reveal that he is in fact to the person who is doing those things. And he has no concept of this

Dan (00:54:53.000)

in a manner. Yeah, he just doesn't get it. I don't think that For people who are paranoid about everything, I don't know if these people who are going into the deposition are worried enough about where they're being led.

Jordan (00:55:08.000)

I mean, Eddie's end the lawyer, the lawyer, here's one thing I want to focus on. Why did the lawyer say? Objection? He didn't swear to God?

Dan (00:55:18.000)

I don't know. I'm not sure. I want

Jordan (00:55:21.000)

to know more about that one, because it seems like that would be very important to Oh, and they are always talking about Christianity. But maybe

Dan (00:55:28.000)

that was why the objection was there. Like you're stressing that too much. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you're making this sounds like a religious thing, as opposed to, you know, just the formality of legal rallies. Right. But it is a religious thing for him. Maybe? Yeah, maybe many ways. Maybe that's how one understands it. Maybe it's not. I don't know that. So the question comes up, you think you're informed about Sandy Hook? Do you think that that is something you know a bit about

Jordan (00:55:57.000)

answers, obviously, to say

Bill Ogden (00:55:58.000)

at this point, after you know, your involvement in this case for three years, and your affidavit, multiple affidavits, as well as your, you know, couple episodes? On Infowars. About Sandy Hook, would you say you're informed about Sandy Hook?

Owen Shroyer (00:56:17.000)

No, I barely talked about Sandy Hook ever.

Bill Ogden (00:56:19.000)

I didn't ask you if you talked about it. I asked if you were informed about it.

Owen Shroyer (00:56:25.000)

About It? That's kind of a vague question.

Bill Ogden (00:56:27.000)

I agree. And I asked you this because a number of times, I've watched some of your YouTube videos, you walking around at rallies, and asking people to name accusers of Donald Trump. And you start naming them because you say Yeah, cuz I'm informed. I can name names. So I'm just asking you to name names, names, names of what of any government official, you claim, used Sandy Hook to further restrict gun rights?

Owen Shroyer (00:56:53.000)

I'd have to go back in time to answer that question.

Bill Ogden (00:56:55.000)

Okay. So right now sitting here today, you are an uninformed citizen. On Sandy Hook. Objection form, correct.

Owen Shroyer (00:57:03.000)

I would say that, if you could catalog my entire career in media, Sandy Hook makes up for less than 00 0.1% of my

Bill Ogden (00:57:15.000)

commentary. Anyway, was that responsive to my question?

Owen Shroyer (00:57:19.000)

I think it is very responsive to my question, Mr. Shroyer you asked if I would be informed on Sandy Hook? Yeah.

Bill Ogden (00:57:25.000)

You said, oh, there's only 1% of everything that I do.

Owen Shroyer (00:57:29.000)

Are Yeah, Sandy Hook is not my bread and butter. I don't know much about Sandy Hook.

Bill Ogden (00:57:34.000)

So you're uninformed. It's okay to say I'm not trying to trick you. Just trying to see whether or not you think you're under you're informed or not. So I know whether or not I need to ask you any more questions on that. Topic. Are you informed about Sandy Hook? Objection for?

Owen Shroyer (00:57:48.000)

Again, it's a vague question. Yes. And no, I'm aware of Sandy Hook. But have I done deep research? And am I very knowledgeable in this situation? No.

Bill Ogden (00:57:57.000)

Okay. Kim, do you know Mr. Heslin? Son's name? No,

Dan (00:58:02.000)

this is such a simple question and line of questioning. And Owen would lose nothing by just saying that he's not informed about the case. But there's a weird dynamic with Infowars, where attitude is just as important or more important than content. And somebody like Owen has been trained to resist ever showing his ass. He made his name by going into hostile territory and arguing with people he was calling them cucks. So even though he's in a completely different setting here, that mode is still a part of how he interacts. I suspect that no one's afraid to come out and say that he's not informed about Sandy Hook, because he's worried that the next question will be, why aren't you informed about Sandy Hook? And he doesn't have a really good question. Good answer for that. If you're humble, why wouldn't you learn a little bit about the case? He's been in a lawsuit for a while and beyond that Sandy Hook is a big deal in online conspiracy communities that make up a large part of his audience. So it seems like he'd be curious at least, to admit to being uninformed about Sandy Hook reveals a lack of curiosity and a lack of interest in knowing things which is countered how Infowars hosts are supposed to position themselves in terms of branding. It also opens up a line of questions that aren't going to come up in this deposition. But Owen is still probably worried about answering, namely, whether or not he's informed on many of the other topics he covers, like, for instance, is he informed on the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Could Owen coherently explain what happened there beyond just the catchphrase version of like, the government lied to get us into the Vietnam War? I would suspect not. And one of the really important aspects of Infowars kayfabe is the image that the people working there know a lot about the things that they talk about. Also, not knowing a child's name is that's actively disrespectful on Owens part. If you were truly someone who made an honest mistake and covered the story wrong and ended up hurting this grieving father, you would think that oh, and would have familiarized himself a little bit with the circumstances, if only to be able to fully apologize for the, the pain he caused. And that's clearly not something that he's felt inclined to do.

Jordan (00:59:56.000)

Yeah. What's he going to say? I've been advised by Infowars lawyer Here's to know as little about this case as possible, thus making my answers to you, perhaps less damaging to the company. Although now that I have said that out loud, I'm starting to think that it's the wrong way to go.

Dan (01:00:11.000)

It looks like shit. Yeah. So his his his refuge and the thing that he thinks is going to save him is this notion that he was questioning Megan Kelly. He wasn't questioning Neil Heslin story, right? Just mad that there were inconsistencies and Megan Kelly's store, right.

Jordan (01:00:28.000)

One thing that I do both appreciate and don't appreciate because it moves us on our stupid V evil continuum more towards the evil side is that it does appear that Owen has a kind of plan here. Yeah, he has got like, if I stick to the plan, then I'll be able to keep on going.

Dan (01:00:47.000)

If I insist that this was just about Megan Kelly, I've

Jordan (01:00:51.000)

just I just got a whether through this and if he let's say asked me a bunch of questions that I'm not sure about don't know the answers to I should definitely not volunteer information like cat Daniels did.

Dan (01:01:01.000)

Yeah. There's that as you can tell a pretty obvious difference between the two. Oh, yeah. So we get back to this just questioning Megan Kelly.

Owen Shroyer (01:01:09.000)

I never had any intention to go after Mr. Heslin. I never accused Mr. headland of lying. I never meant to do anything negative to Mr. Heslin.

Bill Ogden (01:01:21.000)

Instead, you took an interview that he did with Megyn Kelly, and said based on the coroner's report, and based on this because Megyn Kelly didn't say he held his son, Neil Heslin. did. So when you said it was impossible. You were calling him a liar. Right? No. You were questioning Megan Kelly.

Owen Shroyer (01:01:41.000)

I was questioning the coroner. And I was wondering why Meghan changes. More as again, just just because Megyn Kelly was in studio, she was in the news. And it was just something that was relevant.

Bill Ogden (01:01:54.000)

And she's a journalist. So that should be fact checked. Right?

Owen Shroyer (01:01:58.000)

Yeah. I mean, if she wanted to fact check that and put the conspiracy theories to rest, she could have done it right there and she didn't.

Bill Ogden (01:02:04.000)

But if she didn't have a highly edited clip like you that made it look like the coroner said that the parents never saw their kids. Why on earth would she prove that Neil Heslin held his son Mr. Hudson was gonna say, I held my son and I saw the gun wound and Megan Kelly's follow up to that was like, Yeah, because the coroner told us he didn't give him to the kids at first, but then later did that's, I mean, how is this playing in your head right now? I'm, I'm you're kind of confusing me.

Owen Shroyer (01:02:34.000)

Yeah, I mean, I have no idea what Megyn Kelly had access to as far as if she'd ever seen the coroner saying that or not. I have no idea.

Dan (01:02:41.000)

This is a great encapsulation of what an impossible task it is to question propagandists, Owens claim is that there's a contradiction that Megan Kelly wasn't addressing. It only makes sense if and only if you believe that the deceptively edited clip of the coroner is the coroner's complete statement, right? If you don't believe that, or if you've seen the full video, then this isn't something that needs clearing up. Mr. Heslin said what he said there's no contradiction at all. There's only contradiction. If you think that bullshit video is the full truth, which by extension means that you believe that there is a contradiction, then you're revealing that you either know the truth and are a liar or you don't know the truth. And you're just repeating horrible and defamatory claims without ever considering that you should check and see if they're true. Meanwhile, accusing Megan Kelly, if not fact checking, you clearly have not fact checked any of this shit.

Jordan (01:03:32.000)

I think that we could solve a lot of problems before this deposition. If we just took one sentence of the thing they said on their show and ask them to diagram a sentence, you know, like, noun, verb, direct object, like I really don't think they understand how we're really into grammar today. I'm really struggling because they keep asking questions where it's like you, if you understood how a sentence worked, then you would just say,

Dan (01:03:54.000)

yeah, yeah. So in reality, the fact that Megan Kelly didn't bring this up is a testament to her doing a better job checking facts than Oh, and she didn't fall for that internet bullshit. And she's not under no obligation to dispel every potentially inaccurate thing. Some asshole like oh and might think represents a contradiction in a grieving father's story. But Owen doesn't feel an obligation to pass along true information. For him. The video of the corner was true in the sense that it existed and who cares with the full Eclipse as the opposite of the edited version that he plays on air. Truth is a fully subjective thing to him. And as long as he can claim that he didn't know the version he presented as truth was a lie, that he doesn't feel the need to be ashamed of himself, nor does he feel the need to learn a lesson from this and tried to do better the next time like it expressed feeling right. It's just because truth and falsity don't matter. The ultimate aim is what appeals to the audience who buy their product. That is what dictates truth and reality to someone like Oh, yep. And then you have to do shit like this in order to rationalize it totally. In case you're ever called on it in a deposition.

Jordan (01:04:58.000)

I mean, it's But my job is to lie about shit quick. Isn't that what you want to say? A little more job is to lie about shit, man. It's

Dan (01:05:12.000)

gotta be. It's gotta be fat. It's gotta be like, she's not ready. So he's just questioning Megan Kelly, though. That's that's the thing that's important. Yeah. Except for when bill reads a direct quote from the video that really makes it seem like he's questioning Mr. Hulu. That's not good.

Bill Ogden (01:05:32.000)

During the segment. This is a transcript of it. of the video. Direct quote here will, will the Will Will there be clarification from Heslin or Megyn? Kelly? I wouldn't hold my breath. So when you say you weren't questioning Mr. Heslin. That is very confusing now. So can you clarify? Sure.

Owen Shroyer (01:05:55.000)

They never responded to the coroner's claims that I played in the video. So that's what I was saying.

Bill Ogden (01:06:00.000)

So because they don't watch your show. Sunday, Jones, because they didn't see it, hear your question and respond. That's what you said.

Owen Shroyer (01:06:17.000)

I'm not understanding what the question is.

Dan (01:06:20.000)

I'm not either. Click Here you can see again, Owens argument completely falls apart. If he accepts the claims. He's ascribing to the core and her word not made by the coroner at all, oh, and fell for a deceptively edited video and then believe that the coroner had made claims that he didn't make and now he's justifying his coverage of the case based on how suspicious it seems that Megan Kelly and Mr. Heslin didn't address these claims that the coroner in reality didn't make right. That's why this exchange is bordering on incoherence, because Oh, and is still cleaned to this pretense that there were actual legitimate claims that Kellyanne Aslan, were dodging, and he was just trying to make sure all these contradictions were ironed out. That's his foothold on his actions making any sense outside the reality that he was, in fact, very clearly trying to imply that Mr. Haslund could not have held this

Jordan (01:07:05.000)

up. Yeah, very much. So that's, I mean, it doesn't get more straightforward than literally the quote that was read to you. Right. And I

Dan (01:07:12.000)

think I think I mean, honestly, I don't know. I don't know exactly how things work in the legal world. Right. But I think that this argument that he's making makes it so much clearer that he had nefarious, absolutely,

Jordan (01:07:27.000)

yeah, it's a terrible this is the best you got this is shit. Yeah, no, that's, that's shameful. It's pretty frustrated. The level of belligerence that he's trying to stick to it. It's very frustrating.

Dan (01:07:39.000)

And that does not relent. No, unfortunately, dammit. So in this next clip, it ends up weaving into a little bit of a question about free speech. Oh, boy, this is troubling.

Owen Shroyer (01:07:52.000)

It's not my job to clarify Megyn Kelly's reporting.

Bill Ogden (01:07:57.000)

Why would? Right? Yes, it's a great statement for you. Is it your job to repost? A repost? From an anonymous writer to question Megyn? Kelly?

Owen Shroyer (01:08:13.000)

I think that's just free speech.

Bill Ogden (01:08:15.000)

Right? Sure. You know, what isn't free speech? When you actually let's back up, you said free speech. What does that mean?

Jordan (01:08:24.000)

Oh, no, oh, no, this definition is going to be a struggle to get through.

Bill Ogden (01:08:29.000)

You said free speech. What does that mean?

Jordan (01:08:33.000)

You're not, you're crazy and the coconut?

Owen Shroyer (01:08:37.000)

The right to address grievances to government? The right to speak, you know, without inherent consequence.

Bill Ogden (01:08:47.000)

Okay. And that's across the board.

Owen Shroyer (01:08:51.000)

I mean, I think that, you know, any legal expert would agree that free speech, you know, is not universal.

Bill Ogden (01:08:56.000)

Correct. Like defamation. Did you know that? Yeah. Okay. So when you say is my free speech, first amendment right. You know that the First Amendment protects you from the government from free speech? Right. Not other citizens. You know that right. Okay. Did Did you know that until I just said it?

Owen Shroyer (01:09:14.000)

I probably wouldn't have phrased it like that. But it makes sense, right?

Dan (01:09:18.000)

It's shocking, but also unex not unexpected that Oh, and doesn't seem to understand what the First Amendment is about. But I got stuck on another thing that he said in that clip. He said that free speech and his understanding involves the right to speak without inherent consequence. And I say what the fuck does that even mean? Right? All speech has consequences because speech is a means of conveying things between persons. If you tell someone you love them that has a consequence, which will depend on how they feel about you could be a good consequence or a negative one, but something happens. Similarly, if you yell a racial slur at someone, there's always a consequence. Maybe you get hit or maybe that person is restrained, but there's still a consequence of emotional pain that's been inflicted. it, there is no speech without consequence, because speech doesn't exist in a vacuum. The reason that I think this is really fascinating is because I wasn't understanding of this is that free speech is speech without inherent consequences. When it's he who's speaking, there isn't a concern at all for the consequences experienced by the other people involved in the speech. It's really just a childish mentality that kind of boils down to I get to say, whatever I want, if anyone's mad about it, they're oppressing me. I understand. And I appreciate the desire and even the necessity of protecting speech from too much censorship, but to not really understand the dynamic nature of speech, particularly when you work at a place called free speech systems. That just strikes me as the mark of a very shallow selfish mind. That grasping, like the legal definition of free speech involves the government. Yeah. And the concept of free speech between persons, always as a consequence, yeah, it may not be you get sued every time. But there's a consequence.

Jordan (01:10:58.000)

I mean, inherent consequence to me suggests that what he is, at the conversations that he's been having, where inherent consequence would come up, essentially, would mean to me that he's saying, I should be able to say the N word, and people shouldn't be offended, because I said the N word or just no words, it has inherent consequence to me. Do you know what I'm saying? That's where the right wing

Dan (01:11:24.000)

version, but it doesn't have inherent consequence, depending on who's saying no, but they think it does. But that's that's that's ridiculous. I understand. There's inherent there isn't inherent consequence for even Oh, and saying the N word if he's around people who don't mind him saying

Jordan (01:11:39.000)

it right. But he thinks that the government is I mean, I'm telling you, this is all just oppression. No, it's It's absolute insanity. aggrievement. Everybody should have to have the first amendment on their wall, and it should be highlighted,

Dan (01:11:53.000)

it should be tattooed on his arm like he's the guy from momento. Totally,

Jordan (01:11:56.000)

totally. If the market. Here's what we do we make the mark of the beast, the First Amendment, no chance they'll stop.

Dan (01:12:03.000)

So we get back to this idea of like, what restrictions happened after these shootings? It's just not not a fruitful line of questioning.

Bill Ogden (01:12:13.000)

With regards to paragraph two in this affidavit, you can't think of a single government action that was made to further restrict gun rights related to Sandy Hook, correct? Not off top my head. Okay. Why did you put it in your affidavit? But what exactly the first sentence of paragraph two that says, I've been a critic of the government for using things like Sandy Hook, to manipulate public opinion in order to, among other things further restrict gun rights in this country. Why did you put that in there? If you can't think of an instance, in related to Sandy Hook where that actually happened?

Owen Shroyer (01:12:50.000)

Injection formed. I net, I didn't say it had anything to do with Sandy Hook, it says such as Sandy Hook. So I'm not saying that there was anything following Sandy Hook. Oh, my God is meant as a general thing. When there's tragedies dealing with guns. Usually, there's a follow up of a proposal of more gun legislation and restrictions, but

Bill Ogden (01:13:10.000)

not in Sandy Hook.

Owen Shroyer (01:13:11.000)

Not that I'm aware of.

Bill Ogden (01:13:12.000)

So if it didn't happen, Sandy Hook, why is it in this affidavit?

Owen Shroyer (01:13:15.000)

Because there's entire cases about Sandy Hook, right?

Bill Ogden (01:13:19.000)

So but if this happened in Sandy Hook, why did you add it in the next sentence to start there?

Owen Shroyer (01:13:26.000)

Because this whole case is about Sandy Hook. And as again, it says, such as Sandy Hook, so I'm not saying it is after Sandy Hook. I meant such as Sandy Hook, because this case is about Sandy Hook.

Bill Ogden (01:13:36.000)

Okay. So such as you mean, like so when there's like, mass shootings or something like that? Sure. Okay. Name a mass shooting where anti gun legislation is immediately followed? I couldn't

Owen Shroyer (01:13:47.000)

name off the top my head, you can't think of a single one can you know, off top my head? No,

Bill Ogden (01:13:51.000)

you know what a fun fact is I can't either, which is why I'm trying to figure out why this sentence is in there.

Dan (01:13:57.000)

It's tough. It's tough when you have to really go over this affidavit and be like, Why would you say this? Oh, boy. So we have established now basically, that Oh, and can't think of any governmental action know, that took place after the gun. Tragedies restrict gun rights. Right. So now we move on to the next sentence in the affidavit, which is about criticizing the mainstream media. And this is also fruitless.

Bill Ogden (01:14:20.000)

Let's go to the next sentence. I believe the mainstream because you're talking about the government sentence one right, sentence two, completely different topic. Now we're talking about mainstream media, used the Sandy Hook tragedy to utilize and transform the public's sympathy, sympathy for the victims and their families into an issue of gun rights. I read that correctly, right? Yes. Okay. Give me an example.

Owen Shroyer (01:14:45.000)

I think it's the exact examples I just gave it. Right? You didn't

Bill Ogden (01:14:48.000)

give me any. Now I'm asking you for this one. Now that we're not going to the government. Master media. Give me one example of what so that I can understand a little bit as to why this is even And in here,

Owen Shroyer (01:15:00.000)

I don't have an example.

Dan (01:15:02.000)

That's,

Jordan (01:15:03.000)

that is the most Info Wars thing I think I've ever seen. It could not be more info wars than just is this is very info it's exactly it's exactly the examples that I just gave you. You didn't give me any

Dan (01:15:18.000)

Info Wars saw that would usually work. We usually

Jordan (01:15:20.000)

an Info Wars when I say it's just the examples I gave you people just don't question

Dan (01:15:24.000)

my daily life. Most people are very distractible This is so easy in real life. What

Jordan (01:15:29.000)

are you doing?

Dan (01:15:31.000)

So now that we've broached the subject of the mainstream media, obviously, you're in a courtroom setting. They want to define terms. You need to with these people. What is the mainstream media? Let's hear

Bill Ogden (01:15:41.000)

it. When you say mainstream media, what's that?

Owen Shroyer (01:15:46.000)

Just any cable news network that familiar to most people, okay, so they have to be on cable? Not necessarily.

Bill Ogden (01:15:54.000)

Okay. What do you mean by mainstream media?

Owen Shroyer (01:15:57.000)

The corporate media been around for a while well known to the public.

Bill Ogden (01:16:01.000)

Okay, what do you mean corporate?

Owen Shroyer (01:16:04.000)

As corporate sponsors.

Bill Ogden (01:16:06.000)

Okay. So corporate sponsors, that are a company that has corporate sponsors that convey the news, and have in the in are known to the public and have been around a while. That's how you define mainstream media.

Owen Shroyer (01:16:28.000)

That's one definition. Okay.

Bill Ogden (01:16:31.000)

When you say for a while, how long is that?

Owen Shroyer (01:16:36.000)

What are you referring to exactly your answer

Bill Ogden (01:16:38.000)

that the corporate sponsors, they've been around for a while? What do you mean by for a while, your words?

Owen Shroyer (01:16:45.000)

I would say they've been around long enough to have some sort of reputation and public recognition.

Bill Ogden (01:16:52.000)

Okay. So Fox News, mainstream media? Yeah. Oh, no, no, really. They have corporate sponsors. They're well known to the public. Right? I would,

Owen Shroyer (01:17:06.000)

I would say most people probably don't know about OA. And really, I would guess most people, if I asked him on the street, they probably are unfamiliar. Definitely not like, as familiar as they would be with Fox News.

Dan (01:17:18.000)

So we've established at Fox News, right as mainstream mainstream media Oh, am not

Jordan (01:17:22.000)

not for whatever arbitrary draw of number of people who owe and could ask upon the street, who knew Oh, a n. That's our poll number. And it's

Dan (01:17:33.000)

arbitrary. Well, it's definitely arbitrary. As even Bill brings up, it's like, well, if you went to a Trump rally, everybody knows who I am. Right. So it's really selective, right? But then the question comes up, well, what about Breitbart? Oh, no, that's should be right. Yeah.

Bill Ogden (01:17:46.000)

Is Breitbart in there? They've got corporate sponsors. They're well known to the public, they've been around for longer than OA in Breitbart is is mainstream media to you, according to your definition, right.

Owen Shroyer (01:18:00.000)

I would probably say, No, I wouldn't consider Breitbart mainstream either. Why? I mean, this is all open for interpretation. But I mean, another general thing of mainstream media would be entities that go along with the same narrative as everybody else. And I feel that Breitbart and OA N often veer off of the consensus narrative.

Bill Ogden (01:18:24.000)

Okay, so your mainstream media, even if you're a news outlet that checks all of Mr. Schreurs boxes of what he defined as mainstream media, if you if you have an opinion, that's different than some other news outlets, then you're not mainstream anymore. How different does it have to be? What's the frequency of that?

Owen Shroyer (01:18:46.000)

There's no measurable,

Dan (01:18:48.000)

there's no, there's no, I mean, it's all of a sudden fades out. He doesn't have it now.

Jordan (01:18:51.000)

And it's all but I feel like stuff is and isn't.

Dan (01:18:56.000)

So what's interesting here is you have these definitions that Owen is bringing up right corporate sponsorships, or longevity sized audience. And those are the things that he would like to present as what he defines as mainstream media. But on further questioning, you really start to realize it's like, oh, no mainstream media says the things I don't like and things that are crazy, and are in line with my narratives, that's not mainstream media, even if they satisfy all the conditions that I immediately came up with, which are the respectable answers. For this for this definition.

Jordan (01:19:27.000)

It does feel like this should be a criminal trial. And the punishment should be a lifelong parole of words at the plaintiff his words, yeah, you have to Okay. So if you want to use a word, you have to demonstrate to an expert in language that you know how to use it properly. It would be nice. I think that's I think that's fair.

Dan (01:19:51.000)

Yeah, I think I think the punishment could be a lifetime of carrying a dictionary around your madam salutely.

Jordan (01:19:57.000)

Yes, yes, sir. that scarlet letter, but it's all the letters.

Dan (01:20:03.000)

So Bill realize is like Wait Infowars would fill all the qualifications that you just gave right for. So are they? Are you mainstream media?

Bill Ogden (01:20:13.000)

Prior to Infowars? And yourself being D platformed. From from social media outlets? Was Infowars. Mainstream Media? No. Okay. They've been around a long time. They have notoriety, they have a massive audience that I mean, dwarfs, most of the companies that I just mentioned earlier, right? And on every outlet that wasn't infowars.com, there's corporate sponsors with Edge generation. And we have that. So I just want to know, Infowars, checks all of your boxes for mainstream media, why aren't they in your eyes?

Owen Shroyer (01:20:48.000)

I just don't agree. Don't check all boxes at all. In fact, I've agreed that there are boxes to check, given vague generalities of my definition of mainstream media, somebody else's could be entirely different.

Bill Ogden (01:20:59.000)

I'm asking I'm not asking for you to classify Infowars for everybody else, right. I'm asking what you think, what's Owens opinion? And when I asked how Oh, and decides whether something's mainstream media, you gave me your criteria, and then I took Infowars your employer, and it checks every single box. But you're saying no, no, no, we're not mainstream media. And I'm trying to figure out why. Tell me why.

Owen Shroyer (01:21:24.000)

Okay. How about this? When news outlets lie about events that cause massive violence to happen, they don't end up getting sued or in court. But when Info Wars covers events, somehow we always end up in litigation like this.

Bill Ogden (01:21:44.000)

You ever seen defamation verdicts in the United States? I'm not too familiar now. Okay. I want you to google it when you go home. And I want you to see who those defendants are. Okay. Their names are CNN, NBC, Gawker. Massive one to Hollywood, Hulk Hogan.

Dan (01:22:02.000)

So I think this is one of the more revealing moments, it shows how Owen processes information, he needs to come up with an explanation for why Infowars isn't the MSM and the thing that he lands on is that they get sued when they make things up, but the mainstream media doesn't. What's remarkable about this is that it's wholly reliant on Oh, and having no idea who gets sued for what no clue it's solely based on a feeling and that feeling is aggrievement. Oh, and and everyone at Infowars feels like they're the victims of society. And so assumptions are made in order to prop up that feeling. Instead of asking yourself, if other people get sued for doing the things that you've done, it feels more satisfying to assume that they don't, and you're only getting sued because everyone's against you. Now, the reason that I think this is so revealing is because it's an instance of Owen speaking to the identity and definition of Infowars. It's something that's at the root of why he thinks Infowars is different than other media outlets, because they're victims of an unfair game persecution, yes, this completely inaccurate feeling is part of how Oh, and identifies Infowars and how they're different from CNN. This makes total sense to me. And I think that this feeling is almost comically present in their broadcast, but it's a little shocking to see it articulated by Oh, in in a deposition. Yeah. Infowars isn't different from the mainstream media because they cover the stories that no one else will. They're not different because they have actual deep level sources who feed them solid Intel. They're different because they believe incorrect things that make them self identify as the victims of society. It's really just very angsty and childish at its core. And it really does explain Owens early career as a self described cook destroyer. It's just a child. Yes. It's just this is just childish shit.

Jordan (01:23:41.000)

Yeah. I mean, it does feel like what he wants to say is like, you can't, you can't like take the things that I say, and then put them into a different context. Because then they Oh, no, yeah, that's because I feel like I feel real stupid now. Yeah, I feel real dumb.

Dan (01:23:59.000)

I have just I have made some broad statements about what makes mainstream media replies to me and so I need to come up with something else. And it's an inaccurate feeling of persecution.

Jordan (01:24:10.000)

I have never fully understood the transitive property. Could you please explain that to me from the very beginning and start with one?

Dan (01:24:19.000)

Well, we're gonna be here a while. So we get to the next sentence in the affidavit. And, again, this is this is a this is a meal, basically, this affidavit.

Bill Ogden (01:24:29.000)

In the next sentence, you say, I believe the mainstream media will put, you know, hypothetical question mark over that term. Instead, you believe the mainstream media instead of blaming the shooter portrayed all going gun owners and gun rights activists as the cause of what happened at Sandy Hook? Surely there's an event that you watched or saw where this happened so that that made you put this in your affidavit?

Owen Shroyer (01:24:57.000)

I can't recall.

Dan (01:24:58.000)

Wow, that's it. Not good.

Jordan (01:25:01.000)

Now, what I'm hearing you say is that I should have a reason for the feelings that I have. And the things that I say, Well, I mean,

Dan (01:25:08.000)

you don't need to necessarily have a reason for all of your feelings, but ones that you swear to in an affidavit, right, that motivate your actions. Generally, I would think that you should have some sort of, like, here's why.

Jordan (01:25:20.000)

Okay, now, let me throw this out at you. This is the first I'm hearing of this shit.

Dan (01:25:25.000)

Now, this notion that mainstream media blamed gun owners, right, oh, when can I come up with an event that makes this makes sense? Well, but Bill makes it a little bit worse. If this

Bill Ogden (01:25:36.000)

sentence that I just read were true, that's a big deal. Correct?

Owen Shroyer (01:25:41.000)

What is a big deal that

Bill Ogden (01:25:43.000)

the mainstream media was was portraying all gun owners and gun rights activists that don't even own guns as the cause of what happened at Sandia? That's a huge deal if mainstream media was doing that, correct? Yes. Okay. But you can't recall anything that made that a huge deal. Right.

Owen Shroyer (01:26:03.000)

Not in exact detail. Okay.

Jordan (01:26:05.000)

Now, what about any deals?

Owen Shroyer (01:26:08.000)

No, because you're putting me into an unfair position where I can't produce the evidence you're asking me to produce? I'm glad you

Dan (01:26:15.000)

said that. We'll come back. Yeah. So what's awesome about this moment, is that bill is basically saying like, man, that would be huge. Yeah, I would be, I would be worried. If you could prove this. Please prove it. Let's this would be very important.

Jordan (01:26:31.000)

I will join your team right now. I'll fucking quit this law profession for good and work under you. Oh, and Troyer, if you can give me one fucking example.

Dan (01:26:42.000)

Yeah, I mean, it's like, well, I'll take this seriously, because that's serious deal. If you can demonstrate what do you got? I got nothing. So we get back to Owens actual video. This is not good. If I were on one, I definitely would not want to hear this in a deposition

Bill Ogden (01:26:56.000)

with what you know. Now. When we read some of those quotes, or when I read some of those quotes from the video that you did about Mr. Heslin, should you set them?

Owen Shroyer (01:27:10.000)

I mean, I think with any live broadcast, I mean, we don't have teleprompters or scripts, that you're going to sometimes have words and phrases that come out that aren't in the way that you liked them. And so I'm upset that my commentary that day is perceived as an attack on Mr. Heslin. It never was. That was never the intention.

Bill Ogden (01:27:33.000)

When you said I think we're gonna get clarification from Mr. Heslin. Or Miss Kelly. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Owen Shroyer (01:27:39.000)

You know what you did after that? I think it went to break. I'm not sure you chuckled and laughter

Bill Ogden (01:27:49.000)

That's what you do. Did you find it funny? No. Do you find Sandy Hook funny? No. Do you find you know, mass shootings? Funny? No. Do you find you know, asking parents for clarification on things that are the truth? Is that funny?

Owen Shroyer (01:28:11.000)

No. So why are you laughing? Sometimes it's just awkward when you go to break and you just kind of have an awkward moment. And I guess in that moment, it was a chuckle or maybe it was just because Megyn Kelly was just kind of a joke to me at the time, so bringing her up was kind of worthy of a chuckle but it again and no, in no way shape or form. Was any of that commentary meant. As a slight on Mr. Haslund I never really lying I've never said that Sandy Hook never happened. I've never said his kid didn't die. I never said any of that. You really don't

Dan (01:28:43.000)

want to hear you laughed.

Jordan (01:28:47.000)

I'm gonna go well, when you're

Dan (01:28:48.000)

trying to be like, I was trying. I was meant to offend.

Jordan (01:28:53.000)

Do you know what you didn't? Shit? You laughed real? How does that feel? Don't feel good. You think that's gonna go? Well,

Dan (01:29:00.000)

I feel like I shouldn't have done that. Hey, can

Jordan (01:29:02.000)

I ask you a question? Let's go back to the first question. Do you feel like you should have said all that stuff?

Dan (01:29:08.000)

So Oh, um, honestly, he kind of thinks that like he did as good a job as he could with the information that was available to him.

Jordan (01:29:15.000)

Of course he does. I mean, it's

Dan (01:29:17.000)

not true. But that's exactly.

Bill Ogden (01:29:19.000)

You're now have been found by a court to have defamed. Mr. Heslin. Right. Objection form.

Owen Shroyer (01:29:29.000)

I had no again, I never accused Mr. Heslin of lying. I never. That segment was never purposed as any sort of affront to Mr. Aslan. I'm not even sure if I knew who he was before that.

Bill Ogden (01:29:42.000)

Okay. So you didn't care who you were talking about?

Owen Shroyer (01:29:46.000)

I was just covering a story that was given to me and you

Bill Ogden (01:29:47.000)

would agree you covered it poorly. Correct.

Owen Shroyer (01:29:51.000)

I covered what I had available to me.

Bill Ogden (01:29:53.000)

No, you did not do that. You covered what was selected by someone at Infowars and was given to you without any The questions asked, that's what you did, right? Yes. Because available was the whole coroner's press conference. True.

Owen Shroyer (01:30:08.000)

Not to me, but it was out there. Right.

Bill Ogden (01:30:11.000)

It was it was surely it was available to you. Not in that exact moment. But what the news is in a race is it? Is it

Owen Shroyer (01:30:19.000)

up for interpretation? Do you Oh, my God is a race. I don't view it as a race.

Bill Ogden (01:30:23.000)

Okay, then the answer to my question is no, it's not a race, Mr. Ogden, right.

Owen Shroyer (01:30:29.000)

I do not view the news as a race. Okay.

Bill Ogden (01:30:31.000)

Now that we've established that, you definitely had that coroner's press conference available to you Mr. Scheuer,

Owen Shroyer (01:30:38.000)

true. No, all I had was that clip. You know

Bill Ogden (01:30:41.000)

what the internet is right? Oh, ouch.

Dan (01:30:44.000)

Do we need to define availability?

Jordan (01:30:47.000)

Okay. So let me let me try and make this a little bit clearer. Okay, so had you or someone around you googled the words you could have watched the whole thing? Two seconds, two seconds here, all would have appeared instantly Hear

Dan (01:31:02.000)

me out on this. Okay. guard rails around Info Wars, right? There's news instead of being handed directly to you goes to somebody who checks into things right? And then if this video is bullshit, then that you doesn't even get to you. And there's no risk of you accidentally reporting bullshit.

Jordan (01:31:16.000)

I'm gonna tell you this right now. We have never had anyone at Infowars to do that. What is that job? Does that do? Where do you get those people? Shit? What are you just gonna hire somebody who can look into things?

Dan (01:31:29.000)

I don't think they teach

Jordan (01:31:30.000)

the dead. There's nowhere to find it.

Dan (01:31:32.000)

Not with this centralized government schools. So he got this video, this article from whoever? Anybody, everybody. And this clip is fantastic. Because this is the clip where Bill basically makes open admit that he's a puppet.

Owen Shroyer (01:31:53.000)

I don't know who edited that video. Right? It could have been someone in our house. It could have been someone else on the internet that they found.

Bill Ogden (01:31:58.000)

Right. You know what had you know what we can agree on? Nobody fact checked. Nobody said, Oh, man, that's crazy. When did he say this? Google of the interview and watch it 20 minutes.

Owen Shroyer (01:32:10.000)

I didn't plan on covering the story that day. So I had no preconceived notion that I would even have to do that. I know

Bill Ogden (01:32:15.000)

Mr. Shroyer, we're here because you were a puppet. You would agree with me, right?

Owen Shroyer (01:32:23.000)

No, you,

Bill Ogden (01:32:25.000)

you don't agree with me that you? You know what a puppet is? Correct? Yes, a puppet is an object that is used to convey a message, but somebody else is actually controlling the message. You understand that? Yes. Right. You were conveying a message, right? True. Yes. Somebody else was controlling that message. True. No, no. Who who was controlling the message that you were putting out? Were you in control?

Owen Shroyer (01:32:53.000)

What was the message?

Bill Ogden (01:32:55.000)

That the coroner said he never released the children ever? Because that's the story you ran with? Who is in control of that information? If you weren't because you already said you weren't in control of it. Who was somebody has to be

Owen Shroyer (01:33:07.000)

whoever originally posted the video, right?

Bill Ogden (01:33:09.000)

So someone else had control. And you were conveying the message. We just established that you are the puppet that day. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to be derogatory by using that term. But it's analogous to where we are now. You would agree.

Owen Shroyer (01:33:24.000)

I think if anybody is being used as a puppet, it would be the people who are reporting the stories. I'm just showing that information.

Bill Ogden (01:33:33.000)

Oh my god reporting the story, Mr. Shroyer so we're showing you were reporting

Owen Shroyer (01:33:39.000)

if I cover so if I just pick up anybody's new source and cover it, does that make me a puppet? So if you don't fact check it? Absolutely. Okay, then I guess then I guess I'm a puppet of Zero Hedge in this case.

Bill Ogden (01:33:50.000)

Yes. No, that's actually not true. You're a puppet of I coin bank.

Dan (01:33:56.000)

Okay. Okay. That's the source that was underlying the Zero Hedge. All right. So I think it's iBank coin, but like, yeah, so some anonymous plug that was reposted by Zero Hedge your their puppet, your jerk.

Jordan (01:34:10.000)

I can't believe that you don't have that moment where you go. I see where you go. Okay. All right. I

Dan (01:34:17.000)

think Owen did and I think he realized like, there isn't a way out of this trap. Because otherwise I have to admit that I was in control of it. It seems worse.

Jordan (01:34:27.000)

No, totally. That's what I feel like the first time he was like, okay, so you're not a puppet. Okay, so were you in control of the message? No. Were you conveying the message? Yes,

Dan (01:34:36.000)

it's humiliation or responsibility, which are you going to accept and all he could just

Jordan (01:34:41.000)

you could just be like, Oh, I get it. Yeah, sure. Fine. In this situation. I'm a puppet. See? We're fine. We're good friends. Now.

Dan (01:34:46.000)

Keep going. What I like to is the like, at the end Oh, and admitting like I guess I'm a puppet. Then I'm a puppet of Zero Hedge. That's not even good enough. No has to hit back.

Jordan (01:34:56.000)

Not even that you wish you wish you are a puppet here.

Dan (01:35:00.000)

somebody you don't even know who the fuck they are. So, at this point Bill plays some videos of O N at the Women's March. And this is a continuation of Oh, and saying, you putting me here on board? Yeah, you're putting me in an unfair situation. You're asking me for examples of all these things. And I don't have it at my disposal. Right?

Jordan (01:35:22.000)

So he's doing this is the videos where he does that to people and says you're uninformed, right,

Dan (01:35:26.000)

basically, yes. If you've been, you know, weed listening to this as we've gone along, Bill already made reference to oh, I'm doing this. Yeah. He's already foreshadowed. That this is coming. Yeah.

Jordan (01:35:39.000)

And he made a very unsuccessful attempt at explaining what he was doing to Oh, right. So now we got it. Now we got props,

Dan (01:35:46.000)

and own is still hopeless.

Owen Shroyer (01:35:54.000)

For a woman he has.

Bill Ogden (01:36:04.000)

All right. So this gentleman just told you tell that to the dozens of accusers that have that have accused him of sexual harassment and assault. Right. And you responded with named one, right? Yes. Let's keep watching.

Dan (01:36:19.000)

So, the Keep watching, keep watching the video. Right. And Bill suddenly trying to make this point that I've been doing this to you. I know. And no one doesn't seem to pick up on it.

Bill Ogden (01:36:31.000)

All right. So that was an encounter with some protesters, right? Yes. And you were asked, they had a position, right. And you asked them for evidence to back their position up. And they and you asked them to name one name of one of the Trump accusers. And he said I can't use it. Oh, well, I'm formed and you started naming Clinton accusers, right? Yes. Okay. And afterwards, he goes, believe the women who accused Donald Trump even though I don't know their names right now, even though I can't remember all their names, right? Yes. And he's and you said, you can't even name one? Name, right. Yes. Okay. Now, take what just happened here. Immediately, your affidavit. You couldn't name one. And there's way more of those than Trump accusers, right. I don't know. But okay. You don't. How many Trump accusers? Do you think there are?

Owen Shroyer (01:37:36.000)

I have no idea.

Bill Ogden (01:37:38.000)

Surely you believe that there's more governmental entities and or congresspersons and or congress people? Excuse me, and or mainstream media outlets? All of that encompassing? That's way more than Trump accusers. True.

Owen Shroyer (01:37:53.000)

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the framing.

Bill Ogden (01:37:55.000)

Yeah, you couldn't name one.

Dan (01:37:58.000)

So he doesn't understand he doesn't grasp the dynamic that is playing out here. It's not as satisfying. No, but But that's why bill just has to directly tell hide. So here's that.

Bill Ogden (01:38:10.000)

Can you kind of see how I got my question and answer format for the ones I asked you about your affidavit. Spoiler alert, you will regret stolen from you from that video, right?

Owen Shroyer (01:38:21.000)

Tip of the cap.

Jordan (01:38:24.000)

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I want I want it.

Dan (01:38:28.000)

That's actually a good moment. That seems that seems organic. Genuine, because it's a little snarky. Yeah, it's a little bit deflated. But there's a little bit of like still saving face a tiny.

Jordan (01:38:41.000)

I still don't think he understands quite what is happening. I don't think he

Dan (01:38:44.000)

understands gets it now after being directly told me I took that what you did with these protesters, right and use that to form the way I asked you these questions, right?

Jordan (01:38:55.000)

Yeah, again, I really think that Owen does not understand the the ability to transfer a series of actions and behaviors from one set section to another i and then I understand

Dan (01:39:06.000)

I understand why you think that I disagree. The A lot of the inability to understand things is somehow sometimes strategic. Sometimes it's convenient to not understand

Jordan (01:39:18.000)

that's definitely true. That is definitely true.

Dan (01:39:21.000)

So this article that Owen was using to do his coverage that he was slipped by somebody you to think like I don't know, maybe if that article was everywhere. Like it was a huge, huge story, then maybe commenting on it. Make some sense in the same way that like with Kid Daniels, right? If TRULY Marcel Fontaine's picture was everywhere, right? Then, you know, it makes some sense to address sure or something. Sure. Maybe. Yeah, at least it seems more defensible.

Jordan (01:39:52.000)

If you have more than just say a tweet by but muncher 99 Right then yes, yeah.

Dan (01:39:57.000)

So we get to a little bit of like how relevant this story was,

Bill Ogden (01:40:02.000)

this is the article that you are going off of right? You're scrolling through the video, and this is the article you're scrolling through, correct?

Owen Shroyer (01:40:10.000)

Well, I had I believe I had that article printed off and

Bill Ogden (01:40:14.000)

had that as well. This was what you were going through on the screen.

Owen Shroyer (01:40:18.000)

Okay. Yeah, I'm not in control of what goes on the screen. Oh,

Bill Ogden (01:40:21.000)

so you don't, you're just looking at somebody else's on the screen. But I do want to look at this. This shows that, and we're not sure where zero point now is. They could be in the Central Time Zone. And so it could have been published at 3:35pm Central, or at, or 235 or 445, on the east coast. And this screenshot is from the video that you're on. And you can see how many shares it's had. Zoom in how many shares it's had at the time you put it up to the world? What's that? Number? Three, three. So this article is not one that was getting shot around. And these are what other outlets are reporting this is safe to say if this is at a minimum, if this has been up for at most an hour, and it's got three shares. We're not dealing with the top brass of mainstream media here are we know your audience is much larger than somebody something that's been put up for an hour or two and how he s3 shares, correct? I mean, I guess, you know, you talk to 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people every day that tune in to watch you and Mr. Jones, correct. Yeah. Jesus. So when a larger media platform, like Infowars takes a smaller media platform article and puts it up. You can agree that disseminates that information to a way bigger audience.

Owen Shroyer (01:42:08.000)

In this case, probably Yeah.

Dan (01:42:10.000)

This is a great way of using their grandiosity against them. Yep. Something that might be described as a judo move. There's a twist and the twist. Yeah. Here with the the you know, like you you guys talk all day about how popular you are. Yeah, billions of listeners, right. And now so you just told billions of listeners this bullshit. I mean, maybe it's a couple 1000 Cool. Could be five. So if you were in Owens shoes, and someone had fed you this information, what like, what would you internally at work? What would you do?

Jordan (01:42:44.000)

I do you mean? What would Owen do though? Like

Dan (01:42:47.000)

you, you were in that situation? What would you what would your sort of agenda be? All right? So I'm on air. No, no, no, they were talking to like afterwards after you realize that this is bad information that someone has given. Right,

Jordan (01:42:59.000)

right. Right. I would probably run away because you because if I admitted guilt at Info Wars, I don't know what anybody would do. To me. There's a lot of possible consequences. That's true with a lot of guns of around.

Dan (01:43:13.000)

Yeah, it's a heavily armed

Jordan (01:43:15.000)

workplace. And I couldn't continue working there morally speaking, because I just committed one of the greatest sins that I can imagine. So I'm gonna have to go with move to Canada.

Dan (01:43:25.000)

I was looking for figure out who gave you that information. Because they've clearly fucked you over

Jordan (01:43:32.000)

because I feel like they're gonna get rewarded and I should go to Canada.

Dan (01:43:36.000)

Ultimately, I think you're right. That bananas world exactly. And normal impulse would be to be like, hey, this person is very least you maybe won't be mad at them. I'd be I'd feel betrayed. Sure, yeah. Or maybe you'd be worried that they might do it again. And maybe you'd want to have a talk with them about being more careful with their information. Yes. Oh, and doesn't seem to really care too much.

Owen Shroyer (01:43:59.000)

If Zero Hedge never publishes the story I've never covered. So it's Zero Hedge just follow I didn't say that I'm just telling you that if Zero Hedge never published the story I would have never covered it

Bill Ogden (01:44:08.000)

you know what the Zero Hedge isn't the one that gave you highly altered clip that completely misled you and all of your viewers

Owen Shroyer (01:44:17.000)

I don't know who gave me that clip. I don't know where they got it but we should we you definitely

Bill Ogden (01:44:21.000)

want to find out right? When you leave here you're gonna go find out who was working that day right

Unknown Speaker (01:44:26.000)

objection form?

Owen Shroyer (01:44:28.000)

Probably not.

Bill Ogden (01:44:29.000)

You don't even you don't care.

Owen Shroyer (01:44:32.000)

Well, I imagine that you would I again, I mean I'm not even sure if the people that were working that day even still work at Infowars same question. Was the question do you care? Yeah, I

Owen Shroyer (01:44:50.000)

am upset that Mr. headland had to go through any of this. I'm upset that I'm being lumped into this again. Like I Sandy Hook was never my thing I never have ever doubted the events happened. I never doubted that his son never died. I'm doing commentary on a piece that was published by Zero Hedge or zero point now or I bank coin. They would have never published it. I would have never covered it.

Bill Ogden (01:45:14.000)

Yeah, but But you were you were reporting on that was the scuze. Me. The Zero Hedge article got the story going. But you directly citing the coroner's testimony. That's Infowars. That's not a Zero Hedge. That's, that's that's your company. True.

Owen Shroyer (01:45:37.000)

I think it was a CBS interview with the coroner. I don't know where the original interview with the coroner comes from.

Bill Ogden (01:45:42.000)

What we do know is that you didn't know what was in it.

Owen Shroyer (01:45:45.000)

True. Until I saw it that day. And you said you're

Bill Ogden (01:45:48.000)

upset that you're lumped into this and you're upset about Mr. Heslin. You're not upset enough to go back to work and figure out what who, who did this and put you in this position? Made you betray all the people that trust you and watch you and severely impacted Mr. Haslams. life again. Right? You're not that upset?

Unknown Speaker (01:46:10.000)

Objection form.

Owen Shroyer (01:46:13.000)

I just feel that that would be a there's nothing that can really come of that for me. Zan and knows the truth not matter. Absolutely. Nobody ever was targeting any individuals by bringing me that thing other than to say, hey, look, Megyn Kelly's back in the news.

Bill Ogden (01:46:34.000)

How do you know? You don't even know gave it

Owen Shroyer (01:46:36.000)

to you? Fine, I guess I don't know. Then.

Bill Ogden (01:46:39.000)

There we go. That's all I needed. You don't know what they why they did what they did. You don't know why they clip that video in the exact way that that set you up to light 1000s of people.

Dan (01:46:51.000)

Oh, and did not have to say no one meant to target anybody? Because now that is introduced that idea. Yeah. Oh, and can't say that? No, because he doesn't know who did it. Because now we have on the record for the jury. Oh, and saying I can't definitively say that someone didn't give me this in order to target them. This is just that's an unforced error. Oh, boy. And I think I think it costs nothing to be like, You know what, I hadn't thought about it. But yes, absolutely. I would love to get to the bottom of this. And I intend to figure this out. I didn't before and maybe that's that was sloppy with me. But yes, that that would cost nothing.

Jordan (01:47:28.000)

I mean, I genuinely cannot believe that none of their lawyers just got together and explain how a deposition works and just was like, listen, answer only the question. If at all possible, keep your answers to yes or no do not explain. If it is not part of the question. All you have to do is answer the question.

Dan (01:47:49.000)

You just answered the question. Keep it brief, direct.

Jordan (01:47:53.000)

Yes or No? If possible, yeah. short as possible answer

Dan (01:47:56.000)

giving, giving these bizarre explanations for your motivations and where your heart is, is only going to create are so stupid, more problem, you are so stupid, so the video gets played. And you'll I think this is just a demonstration of how poorly these videos were cut. Like they cut off mid sentence.

Owen Shroyer (01:48:17.000)

Okay, so making a pretty extreme click claim that would be a very thing vivid in your memory holding his dead child. Now here is an account from the corner that does not cooperate with that narrative.

Dr. H. Wayne Carver (01:48:33.000)

We did not bring the bodies and the family center contact. We took pictures of them their facial features you have, it's easier on the families when you do that. There is a time and a place for up close and personal in the grieving process. But to accomplish this, we felt it would be best to do it this way. And

Bill Ogden (01:49:01.000)

let's finish this.

Unknown Speaker (01:49:03.000)

You can sort of you can control the situation, depending on your photographer and I have very good photographers. But

Bill Ogden (01:49:16.000)

all right, that is what you realize he was going and he was about to say something No, you would agree right?

Owen Shroyer (01:49:23.000)

I had never seen the clip I'd never seen the full clip. That is the only time I'd ever seen or known anything about that clip

Bill Ogden (01:49:30.000)

back up right there. What we just saw you could hear him going continuing to make noise as the video cuts Correct.

Owen Shroyer (01:49:39.000)

You can play it back for me now but I have no idea if I heard it then or not.

Bill Ogden (01:49:43.000)

Play back real quick. Just so we're clear Have you ever heard somebody into sentence with but

Dan (01:49:59.000)

it's Though I have no idea. This is just an attempt to be like you should have had an instinct that they were the sentence went on. But maybe there was more. And this is laying the groundwork of establishing a pattern because there's another clip that is played that's just cut off mid sentence.

Anderson Cooper (01:50:16.000)

It's gotta be able to actually see her.

Sandy Hook Victim's Mother (01:50:23.000)

Well, at first I thought that and I had questioned, maybe wanting to see her.

Bill Ogden (01:50:33.000)

We can agree that that clip was cut, right in the middle of something true. Wanting to see her,

Owen Shroyer (01:50:41.000)

that would be an assumption. I don't know.

Owen Shroyer (01:50:43.000)

Oh, my God. Okay, so just another question that people are now going to be asking about Sandy Hook the conspiracy theories on the internet out there that have a lot of questions that are yet to get answered. I mean, you can say whatever you want about the event. That's just a fact. So there's another one. Will there be a clarification from Heslin or Megyn? Kelly? I wouldn't hold your breath. So now they're fueling the conspiracy theory claims. Unbelievable. We right back with more.

Dan (01:51:14.000)

Not a good look. Not a good look. Also, this ends up getting into a little bit of a fight right after this between the lawyers because you can hear Mark in the back say, Yeah, I heard it and that running the step. But that is a question that is very relevant. Like who is they who is fueling the conspiracy? So here is that when that comes up,

Bill Ogden (01:51:36.000)

the last set the last sentence on that video, you say, will there be clarification from Heslin? Or Megan Kelly, I wouldn't hold your breath. So now they're fueling the conspiracy theory claims unbelievable. Who is their fueling the conspiracy theory claims?

Owen Shroyer (01:51:58.000)

Megyn. Kelly, and Zero Hedge? And

Bill Ogden (01:52:02.000)

Mr. Heslin? Know, how could make him Kelly say that was false, because it sounded a lot like it was just Mr. Heslin talking.

Owen Shroyer (01:52:13.000)

Again, as far as my knowledge, the coroner's testimony was not brought up to Mr. Heslin in Megyn Kelly's interview, and it may have been irrelevant, but that's what I'm saying. Is it Megyn? Kelly did not clarify that question.

Bill Ogden (01:52:29.000)

She didn't know it was a question. nobody questioned her on the spot. And, um, she probably doesn't go to your website or zero knowledge. pretty fair assumption, right?

Owen Shroyer (01:52:41.000)

Okay, sure. You can

Dan (01:52:42.000)

see here that Owen still grasping to this thing that he thinks is a life raft, which is the idea that Megyn Kelly, for some reason, was required to address the manipulatively edited clip of the coroner. And the fact that she didn't is somehow suspicious. Without oversimplifying things. This is basically all Oh, one has to defend his actions, which is really sad, because if you want to really express a truer version of what happened, it's that Owen believed a fraudulent clip was true because it conformed to His conspiracy worldview and gave him ammunition to attack the people he felt were threatening his boss. Whether he actually believed it was true is beside the point, but use the impression that the clip was truthful to discredit the claim of a grieving father, who his boss had lied about and defamed in the past by insisting that the fact that they didn't fully address this fraudulent clip, that must mean that there's a reason that they don't want to clarify things. Probably it's basically Oh, that's going on in terms of his defense, and it's just sloppy.

Jordan (01:53:35.000)

It's not gonna go well, no, no, no, no, every every new question is a danger to that continued existence.

Dan (01:53:44.000)

Yeah. Oh, boy. So I'm noticing in my clips that I don't I didn't actually pull a clip of this, but at some point oh, and says that he didn't know about Wolfgang Halbig. And tally sheets didn't really even know about him until this case. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So that'll that'll come up and be relevant. Oh, of course. ittle bit but I just realized I didn't have that clip. But oh, it does learn something. That's good. Of course. That's good. It's worthwhile. Oh, no. Oh, he does. It's a sad. Oh, no.

Bill Ogden (01:54:12.000)

Why did you say well, will there be clarification for from Heslin?

Owen Shroyer (01:54:18.000)

Just I would say that if he doesn't like the stories being published, and then he would come out and make statements saying, you know, what he said in the video?

Bill Ogden (01:54:29.000)

That's literally what he's in the video. He said, I helped my dead son to silence the conspiracy theories from your coworkers. That's why he did the Megyn Kelly interview. Do you understand that?

Owen Shroyer (01:54:42.000)

You're saying he did the Megyn Kelly interview because of Infowars?

Bill Ogden (01:54:47.000)

Yes, because of the before that interview, that they put him through, over and over and over again 180 times That's how many videos there are. That we can count. So, yes, did you not know that?

Dan (01:55:09.000)

No. Oh, that's depressing.

Jordan (01:55:11.000)

I just, I mean,

Dan (01:55:14.000)

it's either a lie or it's an indication of just not caring at all just

Jordan (01:55:17.000)

adjusted that that it did sound honest. Yeah, it did sound honest. When he's like, Wait, he's you're saying us you're saying that he went on Megyn Kelly because of us.

Dan (01:55:29.000)

Yeah, that's Are we the bad guys?

Jordan (01:55:32.000)

Yeah, that could not be more just like and we cause of this thing. Hills responses? Yes. Oh, my God.

Dan (01:55:41.000)

Yeah. So the another thing that Owen did was be really shitty to miss Lafferty whose mother died at Sandy Hook. Yeah, it was one of the teachers. Yeah. And he made a little bit of a video where he basically suggested that she should have had a gun and that would have solved everything that's

Jordan (01:56:03.000)

gonna go well, yeah.

Dan (01:56:06.000)

Boy, I'd forgotten some of how shitty This is.

Bill Ogden (01:56:11.000)

I'm gonna pause this video at 49 seconds. You just made the statement. That if, if Miss Lafferty his mother had a pistol or a firearm that she could have prevented her death. Correct. How?

Owen Shroyer (01:56:25.000)

By shooting her assailant before the assailant shot her.

Bill Ogden (01:56:29.000)

Okay. How did did miss the deceased Mrs. Lafferty his mother, did she see the assailant coming?

Owen Shroyer (01:56:38.000)

I have no idea.

Bill Ogden (01:56:39.000)

Did she have the ability to get to a purse or a lockbox to get the weapon to defend herself?

Owen Shroyer (01:56:45.000)

I would assume not

Bill Ogden (01:56:48.000)

did okay. So then why are you representing to the public and directed to to miss Lafferty who lost her mom, that if she had a gun, she could have prevented this?

Owen Shroyer (01:56:59.000)

Because I believe if you would have had access to a gun, she would have used it to protect her life and the lives of others.

Bill Ogden (01:57:05.000)

Right. She could have also used that gun and taken steps to put herself in further danger. True.

Owen Shroyer (01:57:12.000)

Meaning Yeah, if you're going to approach armed assailant than you do put yourself in further danger.

Bill Ogden (01:57:18.000)

She could have missed and hit a child. True. Yes. Or she could have she could have died without ever even seeing it coming from from behind. She could have been the first one that went down. True. She could have been I don't know. So this conspiracy theory that you have, which is if she had a gun, it would have been prevented. That's just kind of, you're just kind of guessing. And really, you and I can agree you're making this gun issue here. Right?

Unknown Speaker (01:57:49.000)

Objection form?

Owen Shroyer (01:57:51.000)

No, I believe the gun issue was made with whatever story I'm covering, you know, like I said, whatever the story is that I'm covering, they're saying that, you know, new gun legislation is the answer. And my proposal is that having a gun to protect yourself is a better answer.

Bill Ogden (01:58:07.000)

Are you sure that that's what she's saying? Because I will say this. You do say that she is a high profile gun advocate now, but that's not what this is about. This is about her telling President Trump that she needs he needs to distance himself from Mr. Jones, you understand that? Right?

Owen Shroyer (01:58:29.000)

I know that that is mentioned in the article.

Bill Ogden (01:58:31.000)

You're the one that actually makes this a gun issue. Arming teachers. That's your gun issue.

Dan (01:58:35.000)

That's a great moment there because it's really tough to argue that Oh, and actually was not the person who was making the story about guns. Miss Lafferty was just saying that Trump shouldn't associate with Alex and in order to lash out Oh, and started talking shit about how if her mom had a gun, she'd be alive. And what I find particularly repulsive about this instance of oh and Sandy Hook content, is that it's directed specifically at Lafferty. He speaks in the second person saying your mom, as if you expect her to be listening. Like it's pretty fucked up stuff. And I can't imagine what kind of internal strife It must take to pretend you're not a monster. listening back to that kind of stuff as he's doing in this deposition. I mean, it's grisly. That's

Jordan (01:59:18.000)

how how do you survive that I'm now I'm interested in Oh, in is like a specimen. You know, like I could I could not hear somebody in a deposition. Play that for me, recognize that I did that. And then continue living. I feel like I would just explode instantly and be like, good call. I'm out. Boom, and I'm just gone. I have a

Dan (01:59:39.000)

place where you could search for clues you're beginning. Yeah, that is the rest of his demo. That would be a good call. Yes. So there's more to this video with Lafferty. And so the reason that I brought up that he claimed earlier that he had no real awareness of Wolfgang Halbig and that's because this next clip

Jordan (01:59:58.000)

we're gonna talk about walking how they may AB are you

Owen Shroyer (02:00:01.000)

so upset with Alex Jones? He's looking for the truth, folks. And he's not the one that's denying Sandy Hook ever happened. He's going off other reports. He's going off other evidence. He's going off research done by Wolfgang Halbig, who perhaps has done the best reporting on this. And has 16 questions available online really have not been answered?

Bill Ogden (02:00:21.000)

Let's stop there. Because earlier, I asked you some questions about Wolfgang how big and you said, No, he's the radical one. I don't know anything about his work. I can't opine on what he does. You remember when he told me that? Yes. In fact, you said. He said, I'm not familiar with his work enough to have an opinion. You remember what he said? That? Yes.

Dan (02:00:51.000)

That clip certainly. Sounds bad. Considering the context

Jordan (02:00:55.000)

that would be that would be like, if somebody had me in a deposition, and was like, when you introduced such and such comedian? Did you really think that they were the best in this area?

Dan (02:01:08.000)

Would you say that? Do you really believe that they played colleges? Have you?

Jordan (02:01:12.000)

Have you seen them at clubs and all around the nation all around the

Dan (02:01:16.000)

nation? Are they really irregular? Do you really think that it's someone's birthday? Ah, well, usually, so Owen has a pretty good excuse for that. Okay, let's

Jordan (02:01:30.000)

hear this one.

Dan (02:01:31.000)

I lied. It's not good.

Owen Shroyer (02:01:33.000)

I mean, if I if I have to make a cemented statement, it would say I think that people died that day, because there was no armed security. There was no layer of protection to stop the shooter from going in there and killing people. You

Bill Ogden (02:01:44.000)

didn't stop at people you named Miss Lafferty, his mother particularly would not have died. If she had a pistol or a firearm. You said those words. True. Yes. Okay. Then you went on to say, you know, Wolfgang Halbig. He's a good guy. He's done the best reporting of anyone on Sandy Hook. He's got 16 questions. Number one, you said all that. Yeah. Big fan of walking out big right here.

Owen Shroyer (02:02:16.000)

I wasn't, I'm not sure. I mean, my guess is when it comes to Sandy Hook, that was probably the only name that I ever saw brought up about it. And that's probably why I referenced it. But to say I was a big fan of Wolfgang Halbig is inaccurate, and I don't believe I ever described him as a good person.

Bill Ogden (02:02:32.000)

Okay. How, how did why did you tell 1000s if not millions of people here. Wolfgang Halbig did the best reporting on sandy hook out of all the reporting. And this was a highly reported incident in the world.

Owen Shroyer (02:02:48.000)

Probably because that was just the only name that I had associated with Sandy Hook, for whatever reason, just because I've never researched it. And that was the only name I ever saw associated with it.

Bill Ogden (02:02:57.000)

Well, I mean, you know, Anderson Cooper was there you know, all the big CNN MSNBC, Fox News. Breitbart covered it. You know, tons of people covered it. But you did. Did you choose Wolfgang Halbig because he fit your narrative here.

Owen Shroyer (02:03:14.000)

I didn't have a narrative. Again. I wasn't following Sandy Hook at the time. I wasn't following politics or current events at the time. You were

Bill Ogden (02:03:21.000)

just upset because what Miss Lafferty Said About Trump and your boss upset you, and you needed to stand up for

Owen Shroyer (02:03:28.000)

him. I just wanted to cover an article and respond to statements.

Bill Ogden (02:03:32.000)

Did you get good feedback from Alex Jones after this? Did he say hey, appreciate you, new kid?

Owen Shroyer (02:03:38.000)

I have no idea. Okay. I doubt there was any feedback? That's a bummer.

Jordan (02:03:42.000)

Has Has your dad ever said Good job, son. Yeah, that's.

Dan (02:03:48.000)

That's, I mean, it's really tough to be in that situation where it's like, you have just been shown evidence that you lied. Yeah. And the lie is material. It has to do with like you were calling out someone whose mother died at Sandy Hook. Sure. And part of your rationale for that is, hey, Wolfgang Halbig is great.

Jordan (02:04:09.000)

Right? But I've never heard of the guy.

Dan (02:04:11.000)

But but the video

Jordan (02:04:15.000)

show, you know, sure. You just say thing. But I mean, look, you

Dan (02:04:17.000)

got to correct yourself. Probably.

Jordan (02:04:19.000)

Oh, we will. Obviously if I've never heard of Wolfgang Halbig. I'm sure that later on, you'll see that I've never heard but

Dan (02:04:24.000)

now being shown that you have promoted him on air. You should probably correct that.

Jordan (02:04:29.000)

Yeah, that would make sense or not.

Bill Ogden (02:04:30.000)

What reporting? Did Wolfgang Halbig do? That was good. I'm not sure how did he become the best? In your opinion?

Owen Shroyer (02:04:40.000)

I would say I misspoke in that video. Or as I said earlier, he was just the only name that I'd ever heard associated with Sandy Hook at the time.

Bill Ogden (02:04:50.000)

When was the you saw this video? Well, a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, about a month, about a month ago. Okay, in the last month have you gone on air and clarified to all of your audience that you were wrong, because now it's got us asking questions.

Owen Shroyer (02:05:03.000)

I don't want to touch anything Sandy Hook with it 3000 million foot pole.

Dan (02:05:09.000)

I really I mean, I understand that impulse, right. But I also think that you if you if you're someone like, oh, and you have to recognize like, this makes your credibility look really bad. And the families probably would only think it a positive if you would go on air and directly address that you made a mistake. Yeah. I just think that this is cowardly kind of perspective.

Jordan (02:05:36.000)

Well, what Bill doesn't understand. All right, is that standard operating procedure for Info Wars, okay, is to never be wrong. Always lie. And never ever apologize.

Dan (02:05:49.000)

And yesterday didn't really happen. It

Jordan (02:05:51.000)

didn't know what happened at our zoo. I don't even know what yesterday means.

Dan (02:05:54.000)

I got the feeling watching this, that Oh, and is starting to get pissed?

Jordan (02:05:59.000)

Oh, I would I mean, I would imagine so. Then they

Owen Shroyer (02:06:02.000)

finally do quote Alex. And they say that he admits he doesn't know what really happened at Sandy Hook. And they just say the official story has more holes in it the Swiss cheese. So again,

Bill Ogden (02:06:16.000)

what holes are you talking about?

Owen Shroyer (02:06:18.000)

I have no idea. Okay, then

Bill Ogden (02:06:19.000)

why are you talking on air?

Owen Shroyer (02:06:21.000)

Because I'm covering a story.

Bill Ogden (02:06:23.000)

You're defending your boss, because someone said he said this. But all he said was there's holes. And that's all he said. What did he say?

Owen Shroyer (02:06:32.000)

I don't know. Okay.

Bill Ogden (02:06:35.000)

Prior to going on air, did you do bunch of research to fact check any of this? No. Okay. You just took somebody else's article, went on air and started talking? Yes. It's kind of like your modus operandi. Right?

Unknown Speaker (02:06:46.000)

Objection form.

Owen Shroyer (02:06:48.000)

No, but that's the case in this video.

Bill Ogden (02:06:50.000)

And that was also the case in the last video. Right here for today with Mr. Heslin. And zero edge. Kind of that was the case didn't right. Same thing. True.

Owen Shroyer (02:07:03.000)

I've answered the question.

Alex Jones (02:07:07.000)

Where was that?

Dan (02:07:09.000)

That could have come out earlier. Oh, man recognition that you should not answer.

Jordan (02:07:14.000)

I am suddenly realizing I am losing by a little bit of mud here. Large Marshall deep has. Have you ever heard the phrase in over your head?

Dan (02:07:26.000)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. In the in the soup up to your thorax.

Jordan (02:07:29.000)

Do you know where an angler fishes in the ocean way down? Yeah, that's about how in over my head. I

Dan (02:07:34.000)

hope. So it turns out. Oh, and didn't just promote Wolfgang Halbig on Oh my god. No, don't do this.

Owen Shroyer (02:07:42.000)

I'm asking conservatives and all Americans to join me in telling president elect Trump. This Alex Jones represents the worst of our country. It's time to disavow the man who calls my mother's desk debt a hoax and do not appear on his show. Again, I would say you need to address Wolfgang how big? His 16 questions. But again, why is Alex Jones The worst of this country? What is it?

Bill Ogden (02:08:08.000)

What are Wolfgang Halbig 16 questions? I don't know. Why were they so important to you in this video? You mentioned it twice.

Owen Shroyer (02:08:14.000)

I think it was more of a matter of from my perspective. Alex Jones was catching all this flak for Sandy Hook. But the other people that were questioning it weren't to my best knowledge.

Bill Ogden (02:08:25.000)

Who do you mean other people?

Owen Shroyer (02:08:27.000)

Wolfgang hell did.

Dan (02:08:28.000)

That's fucking brazen, amazing. Oh, and he's trying to claim that he was just saying that Alex shouldn't be taking all the heat. Some of it should be directed at how big and the way he decided to express that he's telling a woman who lost her mother in a horrific shooting that Alex lied about a bunch of times that she needs to answer Wolfgang Halbig 16 questions right? That doesn't sound like a takedown of how big and this comes from the same video where Owen called how big the best reporter on sandy hook. So he's clearly saying that Lanford he needs to answer how big questions because he thinks she can't write the meaning behind what Owen is saying is he believes that if Lafferty were forced to answer those questions, Sandy Hook could be proven to be a hoax. pretending that this is in any way critical of Wolfgang is the most cowardly dodge Oh, and kapow. Here, you expect better from a cook Slayer? Yeah, you know, you die the HKex layer, you live long enough to see yourself become a cockroach. That's what's going on here.

Jordan (02:09:20.000)

I mean, it is it is so sad. I just want I just want to sit down and just be like, listen, I know how Infowars actually works. The questions that I am asking you are just either to tell me if you know how Infowars actually works, or to tell me how you're lying about how Infowars actually works. There is no outcome where you get away. This is this is over.

Dan (02:09:47.000)

Yeah, it's a conversation or traffic.

Jordan (02:09:50.000)

It's up to you, man. You can tell me the obvious things or I'll make you look even worse. Come on

Dan (02:09:55.000)

do because then you'll lie about it. And then I'll play a clip of you doing the thing you said you didn't do But how long are

Jordan (02:10:01.000)

we going to do this dance?

Owen Shroyer (02:10:02.000)

I don't know. But I reached out an olive branch. To Lafferty I feel for you losing your mother I feel for whatever happened to say to him that day, but I'm telling you, Alex Jones is not your enemy. Wolfgang Halbig is not your enemy. I still believe

Bill Ogden (02:10:18.000)

that. Wolfgang Halbig is is not her enemy.

Owen Shroyer (02:10:23.000)

I don't know enough about Wolfgang Halbig I never knew okay. Oh,

Jordan (02:10:31.000)

all right. Fuck You bet.

Dan (02:10:34.000)

That's, that's dark. Yeah, ale. Yep. I never knew enough and yet I am using him as a prop to attack. revenue lost her mother. Right. Just ghoulish shit. Yeah. So here, here's a little bit more of a video.

Owen Shroyer (02:10:51.000)

I asked you. If your mother had a gun, ready, aimed and ready to be fired at Dylann Roof when he took your mother's life? Do you think she would still be alive today? This is Owen Troyer for infowars.com.

Bill Ogden (02:11:05.000)

How do you think that last little part went over with Miss Lafferty Action form? I don't know. If you could redo this video, would you keep that last part in?

Owen Shroyer (02:11:18.000)

I just wouldn't do the video at all. Why? Because it's now being used against me.

Dan (02:11:23.000)

Is that why that's all man.

Jordan (02:11:25.000)

That's selfish. That's that's real. I see. That's one of those things where your answer is way worse.

Dan (02:11:32.000)

Yep. Yeah. And also, not for nothing. Oh, I got the shooters name wrong. He's that Dylan?

Jordan (02:11:38.000)

Dylan Roof. Yeah. That's

Dan (02:11:41.000)

a little disrespectful. That's dark. Pretty fucking disrespect. That

Jordan (02:11:45.000)

is dark. Yep.

Dan (02:11:47.000)

Wow. Yeah. So the question comes up of hey, man, what shootings has Info Wars, not thought was a hoax or a false flag.

Jordan (02:11:58.000)

Okay, if I'm open and I get this question, my immediate response is, I don't have any examples for you. And then we just call it right, because that's where we're gonna go.

Dan (02:12:08.000)

I mean, eventually, yeah.

Bill Ogden (02:12:09.000)

Can you think of a mass shooting? That Infowars did not say was a false flag. And or a hoax?

Owen Shroyer (02:12:20.000)

Yeah, there was just one at a high school in Michigan this week.

Bill Ogden (02:12:24.000)

Okay. And prior to Yeah, actually, prior to this lawsuit being filed, can you think one? No. Paul Watson because Columbine Infowars false flag or brainwash, government brainwash programs, Boston Bombing, Gabrielle Giffords shooting, Parkland shooting, Aurora. Sutherland springs church shooting, El Paso 911, Oklahoma City, San Bernardino, all false flag or hoax. All claimed by Infowars. So earlier, when I asked you if you thought Infowars was a conspiracy theory website, you said no. Now that I just went through those, you still hold on to that opinion.

Owen Shroyer (02:13:25.000)

There's way too much to unpack there to make a broad statement to allow 20 different events. And yes, make a blanket statement of conspiracy theory.

Bill Ogden (02:13:35.000)

I gave you all 20 events, right? Or however many, which one of them was a was a hoax? Which one of them was a false flag? You told me?

Owen Shroyer (02:13:44.000)

I have no comment on that.

Bill Ogden (02:13:47.000)

There's no you can't name one, right?

Owen Shroyer (02:13:49.000)

I didn't say that either. Yeah,

Dan (02:13:51.000)

you can't. You can't. Oh, buddy. You can't you can't say any. Because if you do those follow up questions. You just can't you just can't can't handle that. Just say no. Yeah, yeah. So the fact that all of these things you can't demonstrate or claim that any of them were actually hoaxes, and Infowars called all of them hoaxes. That makes you a conspiracy site doesn't know, every single one.

Bill Ogden (02:14:13.000)

Is, is labeled a hoax and or false flag immediately, by Infowars. The day of on every single one that I just listed off, did they get any of them, right?

Owen Shroyer (02:14:30.000)

I mean, I'm, I'm basing an answer off of an assumption that you're being completely honest. I don't know what you're talking about. What events Did I cover of those events that you listed?

Bill Ogden (02:14:41.000)

Well, so here's the thing. You didn't cover any of these. But you did say that Infowars is not a conspiracy theory website. So if they're a website that labels all of these events as false flags and or go Government cover ups are hoaxes. And none of them are right. What does that make? Infowars?

Owen Shroyer (02:15:10.000)

It's a matter of opinion.

Bill Ogden (02:15:11.000)

I'm asking what's your opinion?

Unknown Speaker (02:15:13.000)

Direction for?

Owen Shroyer (02:15:16.000)

I have no opinion on the matter.

Jordan (02:15:17.000)

Yeah, don't answer that. Yeah. At this point. It's like, when did he figure this out? Yeah.

Dan (02:15:22.000)

Three hours in was it that point where you starting to look pissed off? It just felt like, yeah, you're gonna have to, there was a almost like a switch kind of flipped. It's like I got a clam up about this. I think it's the Halbig Eclipse, like that revelation of like, Oh, I am completely trapped myself here. I can't say anything else. Because I do. It's probably going to be a trap. And I think I think that I mean, I would be shocked to if I was in that position.

Jordan (02:15:50.000)

I mean, I guess points for getting there. But you should have gotten

Dan (02:15:56.000)

there way earlier, it might have taken three and a half hours.

Jordan (02:15:59.000)

But the idea that oh, God. So there's there's a

Dan (02:16:03.000)

culture at Infowars that is of a certain character. Oh, I would say so. Now, how much anyone is aware of what the other people there believe is a matter of debate. There's some information about some of Owens co workers. That is brought up and we want to know if Owen is aware of this stuff.

Bill Ogden (02:16:26.000)

Michael Zimmerman, do you know who he is? Yes. Is he Are you friends with him?

Owen Shroyer (02:16:30.000)

I wouldn't say we're friends. But I mean, we don't hang out or talk that often.

Bill Ogden (02:16:34.000)

Sure. But your friend, you have a somewhat professional and I saw

Owen Shroyer (02:16:38.000)

him in public. I'd go say hello. Sure. Okay.

Bill Ogden (02:16:41.000)

So you seem like a good guy. Yeah. And I deposed him, he came off very respectful. He was he was shockingly nice. But would Has he ever shared any of his opinions or views on mass shootings with you?

Owen Shroyer (02:16:59.000)

Not that I can recall.

Bill Ogden (02:17:03.000)

Were you aware that you remember the Christchurch shooting? New Zealand? Yes. Christchurch, New Zealand shooting. live streamed? Yes. Brandon Tarrant was the shooter. He executed a bunch of Muslims at a mosque. Something.

Owen Shroyer (02:17:24.000)

Yeah, you'll be refreshing the details of the event for me right now.

Bill Ogden (02:17:30.000)

Do you know whether or not anyone at Infowars claimed it was a false flag?

Owen Shroyer (02:17:36.000)

No, I'm not aware. Okay.

Bill Ogden (02:17:40.000)

Did you know that some individuals at Infowars liked that shooting? No. Did you know? You understand that Michael Zimmerman handles the IT stuff for Infowars.

Unknown Speaker (02:17:55.000)

Jackson form.

Owen Shroyer (02:17:57.000)

I know that he was doing it. I'm not sure if that is still his role.

Bill Ogden (02:18:03.000)

Did you know that on March 14 2019. Mr. Zimmerman registered the domain Tarrant manifesto.com. No, did you know that he registered the website? Shooter? chan.org? No. Did you know you know Timothy Thrift is? Yes. Do you have a personal relationship with Him?

Owen Shroyer (02:18:27.000)

Work acquaintance?

Bill Ogden (02:18:28.000)

Okay. Did you know that he registered the website? St. tarrant.com? No, after the shooter, Brandon Tarrant. No. How do you feel about the people that you work with who you have somewhat of a personal relationship? Registering these type of websites immediately after a mass shooting that was live streamed to the world? pretty surprised.

Dan (02:18:52.000)

He was pretty surprised. But he also says I'm not going to bring it up to them. No. I

Jordan (02:18:57.000)

mean, what are we going to do? We're going to I'm going to be mad at all Nazis at Infowars. Come on, man.

Dan (02:19:04.000)

I think if I found out that a co worker had registered St. tarrant.com, I would probably quit. Because it also is that's an intersecting data point. Yeah. With someone who I don't believe he's been on much lately, but was a pretty regular Infowars guest Vox Dei, who would call Brendan Tarrant St. Taryn? Yeah. And was a big fan of Anders Brevik. And I think I think that these kinds of intersections, these kinds of like, oh, it's suspicious that everyone seems to that's you scratch under the surface, and there's these these weird, weird, seeming, seeming to like white nationalist violence and a murderer.

Jordan (02:19:49.000)

I'm gonna throw this out at that at you own. You ever noticed how many of your friends are Nazis? Like but have you ever talked to him about it? Well,

Dan (02:19:57.000)

I don't want to talk to him okay about it, but like If

Alex Jones (02:20:00.000)

you're asking me to talk to him about it, then maybe I don't have to. Okay. Okay, I can pretend I don't Okay, fine.

Jordan (02:20:05.000)

But if you don't talk to him about it, and then you guys go to a rally together, right, and it's all of their friends aboard if they don't talk about it, right. Okay. Okay. But you like them, right? Well, I love love their ideas, and they are all wearing Nazi armbands,

Dan (02:20:22.000)

but it's in fashion. It's the season. Okay. Well, you're convinced it's troubling. I mean, like, obviously, it's not your responsibility to know everything that your co workers do, or anything like that. I've had some coworkers that I've had some suspicions about. Sure. And I think if somebody came to me and confirmed some of those suspicions, I would have disassociated myself from working around them, whether it's like, I'd like a transfer to maybe another office or something like that. I want nothing to do with those folks. And if it's something like a place that does deny mass shootings, and did believe the Christchurch shooting was a false flag. And you have multiple people who work there who are creating websites intended to maybe make something that's

Jordan (02:21:11.000)

like a terror cell. ever sell?

Dan (02:21:18.000)

I understand that what you want? I understand you can't make 100,000 anywhere else. No,

Jordan (02:21:22.000)

but you can make a fine living. Yes, not. I don't know, helping Nazis.

Dan (02:21:27.000)

So be good. So we only have a couple more clips left. And one of them is a question about did you know that you didn't answer discovery.

Bill Ogden (02:21:37.000)

And so this is all going to be exhibit 13. And it's one large document that starts from this first page, we'll go through it together, which is a signed order by the judge back in 2018. And it is ordered discovery by the judge to defendants. And this is the discovery ordered. And that's your name, right? Yes. Okay. So that was ordered by the judge for you to answer these requests directly to you. And if we go to the request for production we see that request for production one. Can you read with that says

Owen Shroyer (02:22:33.000)

all communications including letters, memoranda, emails, text messages, instant messenger logs or other electronic communications in which the following the following topics are referenced. Neil Heslin, or his son Dr. Wayne Carver Zero Hedge Jim Fetzer.

Bill Ogden (02:22:49.000)

Okay. To this than that was ordered by the court that wasn't just sent by us it was sent by us not answered and then brought to the court in the court ordered you to do that production. Okay. Okay. To this day, you have not answered that. As we sit here and correct.

Owen Shroyer (02:23:17.000)

I was I was unaware of this. Okay.

Bill Ogden (02:23:21.000)

And you would agree that some of the some of the exhibits that we've gone through today would be considered communications? about Dr. Carver, Neil Heslin, or his son ZeroHedge. Correct. Yes. You did not produce any of that to me, we had to get that elsewhere. You would agree.

Owen Shroyer (02:23:51.000)

I like I said, this is the first this has even been brought to my attention. In the other case, as soon as this request was presented to me, I produced everything.

Bill Ogden (02:23:59.000)

Okay. So we

Dan (02:24:00.000)

have this situation where Owen is saying he had no idea he needed to do this. In addition, yeah, I have the kit Daniels where he said that the lawyer sat on this thing for a month. Right. Conceivably might be true. Might not be. Who knows. And so this leads to bill making a suggestion that is a little bit unconventional.

Bill Ogden (02:24:22.000)

I understand that Mr. Reid's represents you right now. And I am this next question is in no way a reflection of Mr. Reeves. Because I'll represent, he's the best you've had so far. But when I when we look into your net worth, I want to know whether or not you have discussed or contemplated not with Mr. Reyes, but with anybody else. legal malpractice lawsuits against your prior counsel for multiple failures over the course of three years. You To entertain responsive discovery, to the point where you've now been sanctioned with a default judgment by the judge.

Owen Shroyer (02:25:09.000)

Can you just try to simplify that for me so I can

Bill Ogden (02:25:12.000)

discuss or contemplated suing your lawyers? Because they did not tell you any of this had come to them that you were ordered by the judge to answer. And because of that, along with other conduct that by them, default judgment was granted.

Owen Shroyer (02:25:28.000)

For? I have not had any discussions about that. No.

Bill Ogden (02:25:31.000)

Okay. I will say this. I think he should. The reason I say that is because those claims are an asset. And at some point, those assets are probably going to be evaluated by the end of this lawsuit, because I'm sure you've had conversations to an extent with your lawyers, but I will say this, are you aware that as this case stands right now, the judge has taken away any ability, you have to defend yourself?

Owen Shroyer (02:26:08.000)

I understand that now. Okay.

Bill Ogden (02:26:11.000)

And so your lawyer was not based on solely from Mr. Reeves whatsoever?

Owen's Lawyer (02:26:17.000)

If we could please make sure we're clear on the record there when you're gonna ask about legal malpractice questions that were no Yeah. And I tried to

Bill Ogden (02:26:23.000)

make it clear before. You know, that's, that's between y'all.

Dan (02:26:27.000)

So this is a pretty wild thing here. recommending that you sue your prior lawyers. But also, there's a there's a two pronged thing here. Yeah. The first is that there's like, this isn't all your fault. You got fucked by these lawyers. Right. Second thing is, if you do sue your lawyers, that's an asset. That's collectible. Because then that money, whatever you will get for suing lawyers should be assessed to be possibly given to the people who are awarded a judgment against you. I feel

Jordan (02:26:57.000)

like Bill is saying real quick, like, Hey, if you think after this is done, you can then go sue your lawyers to get some of your money back. We are going to take that money to Yes, all of this money, all of yours is now mine. This

Dan (02:27:14.000)

is not going to be something where you can make yourself richer after the fact. This will be this will be a piece of whatever your assets are. That our factor in this case, here's

Jordan (02:27:27.000)

what blows my mind. Okay. They know we exist. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the only thing that makes sense to me is we have episodes where we critique depositions. Yeah, essentially, we gave them free coaching crew, all they had to do was listen to us shit, talk them. Take our advice. Yeah. And then go back in. This one's free. And it's for the lawyers. It's the same lawyers. Like what are we doing?

Dan (02:27:57.000)

This is interesting to be fair, I don't know. Okay, so the ones that I was at Brad was the lawyer, right? The one with Kitt. Daniels was another lawyer, right that I do is ones Brad and I think some of the other ones. We know good good work. Barnes right from Sherwin Barnes was we got so I think there there have been periodic different lawyers in our right but yeah, it's, that's, that's free. That's an interesting way to bring this sort of, to the land. This

Jordan (02:28:27.000)

was free. You get to download it anytime. It's true. Amazing. I think I know I've said amazing a lot. But really, like genuinely This is shocking. We don't

Dan (02:28:37.000)

really know all that much about law or legal advice do know about unforced errors. You keep Yes. Shut up or come up with a better answer.

Jordan (02:28:48.000)

May I just read just ridiculous, silly.

Dan (02:28:51.000)

So there's one last clip here to dismount. And it's a question of whether or not Owen feels remorse for what he's done.

Bill Ogden (02:28:58.000)

I'll ask question, do you have any remorse for any of the contributions you made towards the impact Mr. Heslin had from the reporting that you were involved with in Sandy Hook?

Owen Shroyer (02:29:13.000)

I would say I do. I would say that I wish I'd never commented on any of it. I would say that I wish I understood whatever reporting Mr. Halbig was doing at the time better before referencing him and so my my one regret it should I just should have never even covered it never should have talked about it. And having said that, and just not to be redundant, but I think it bears repeating. I never said anything about Mr. Heslin. Being a liar. I never said anything about his son not dying. I never said anything about Sandy Hook, Sandy Hook being a hoax. I never had any intention of any ill will towards Mr. headland and anything if I had thought that there would have been such consequence to eight minutes of My career on air because of these videos than I would have not done it. Absolutely.

Bill Ogden (02:30:06.000)

Appreciate your time.

Dan (02:30:07.000)

So this is interesting for me because obviously there is an expression of him saying, Yes, I have remorse. Right. But at the same time with the explanation of the remorse has to do with consequences that had been visited upon him, as opposed to it was wrong to do this, right. It's wrong to put someone treat someone like this essentially, even if they're an abstract idea to you. Like he doesn't know who Mr. Heslin is. It's not it's not like a person in his life. But, you know, not considering the possible ramifications of your blatantly irresponsible and bullshit coverage of a very, very serious and dramatic thing and not to mention, let Ms Lafferty is the brazenly disrespectful locked up coverage of her situation. I think that I don't know if it's an inability or an unwillingness to accept responsibility on the level of this was wrong to do. Right. But I find that distasteful that you could only understand wrongdoing through consequence.

Jordan (02:31:10.000)

I mean, it is it is a guy saying I regret being caught. Yes. I listen, I stole all of her money. I loved stealing it, I get to keep it. And I regret you catching me because now I feel like I'm gonna lose it. Yeah. And I would really like to keep that person's money that is not

Dan (02:31:25.000)

mine. If I'd known there was a punishment for the shitty behavior.

Jordan (02:31:30.000)

Yes. If anybody had explained to me that there were rules

Dan (02:31:32.000)

ever thought that there was a possibility that this would come back to haunt me. I probably wouldn't have done it totally. Totally right. I mean, congratulations on being a very responsible adult.

Jordan (02:31:42.000)

It's just it's just so much like, Listen, if I hadn't gone to work for Infowars, where they told me this shit was fine, then I probably wouldn't be doing it. What education do I have? I'm a moron.

Dan (02:31:53.000)

He went to college. Exactly. He worked for that am station. Yep. So we we reached the end of this. And I'm exhausted, as am I. But I think we learned a lot. I think we did. I think I think we really learned a good bit about the inner workings of multiple facets of Infowars through and then we reinforced the these people are shitheads jam, they just don't know what to do and can't defend themselves without making things worse,

Jordan (02:32:19.000)

and they can't take the help from people who hate them. Who do we think couldn't even take our help. That sounds stupid. Just

Dan (02:32:28.000)

because we're aware. That doesn't mean they listened to

Jordan (02:32:32.000)

every episode and they listen to any episodes. I don't think they should listen to anything. But if you've got a deposition, I mean, it might behoove you

Dan (02:32:40.000)

now. Next time, we'll see. But hey, Jordan, we're back for episode 66666. Yeah, we're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's at knowledge underscore fight, and I go to bed Jordan. Yep. We'll be back for Episode Six. But until then, I'm Neil. I'm Leo DCX. Clark and

Jordan (02:33:02.000)

devil himself. Sure. And now here comes the sex robots.

Alex Jones (02:33:06.000)

Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.

Andy In Kansas (02:33:10.000)

Well, Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.