Transcript/628: July 10, 2003
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N-N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight
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Damn, and, Jordan, I am SWEATING
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Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray
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I have great respect for Knowledgefight
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Knowledgefight
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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys
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Shang, we are the bad guys, Knowledgefight
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Dan and Jordan, Knowledgefight
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Riddle her, riddle her, riddle her
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D-I-D, money
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Riddle her, riddle her, riddle her
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Andy and Kansas...
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Andy and Ka... Andy and...
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Stop it, Andy and Kan... Andy and Kansas
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It's time to pray
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Andy and Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding it
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Hello, Alex, I'm a system color, I'm a huge fan
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I love your words
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Knowledgefight
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N-N-N-N-N-Knowledgefight.com
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I love you.
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Hey everybody! Welcome back to Knowledge Ride, I'm Dan.
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I'm Jordan!
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We're couple dudes!
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I'd like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
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Oh, indeed?
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Emmerich, if you're nasty.
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Uh, oh no, I am not.
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I'm actually quite polite.
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Yeah.
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Uh, Dan?
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Jordan.
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Quick question.
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What's up?
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What's your bright spot today?
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I would ask that you go first.
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Okay, my bright spot today, Dan, is I saw this new TV show anime called Sunny Boy.
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Whoa, Sunny Boy!
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And it is fucking spectacular.
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It's so good.
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It's an examination of this Japanese high school class that gets unmoored in space and time.
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Oh.
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Right?
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And so, allowing that to happen, you get a wonderful mix of, like, Lord of the Flies examination of the dawn of civilization and society's growth.
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And how shit falls apart along with emotional messaging and all.
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It's so good.
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It's just so good.
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It's a great, great show.
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That sounds fun.
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I highly recommend it.
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Alright.
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Yeah.
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Cool.
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Yeah.
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What's your bright spot today?
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There you go.
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I was waiting.
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My bright spot is that rudeness you're exhibiting.
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Um, no, I actually, this is tough for me.
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I actually don't know what my bright spot is.
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I mean, I know what it is, but I don't know what the name of it is.
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I saw an energy drink that was at the store and I got it because it looked like an interesting flavor.
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And I tried it and it was great.
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It was Hawaiian shaved ice flavor.
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Interesting.
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An energy drink with a Hawaiian shaved ice flavor.
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Hawaiian shaved ice.
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Interesting.
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Yeah, I mean, it was just basically like a strawberry watermelon kind of thing, but it was very tasty and I don't remember the name of the brand.
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So, hey, whatever.
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And you know, if I did remember the name of the brand, people would think I was just advertising.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So, fuck that.
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No, this is way better.
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Hawaiian shaved ice flavored energy drink of some brand.
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Yeah, I like it.
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Bright spot.
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Absolutely.
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So, Jordan, today we are in the past.
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Ooh.
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We're going to be talking about July 10th, 2003.
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Okay.
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You may notice that there's a little bit of a gap between our last episode and July 10th.
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Few days.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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So, here's what happened.
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The audio is unlistenable.
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I tried to fiddle with it and get it to a point where it could actually be usable, but it's just that 9th and 8th are, like, it's outrageous.
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It's comically bad, this audio.
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Wow.
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But I did listen to a bit of the 8th and Paul Joseph Watson showed up.
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He had just written his book.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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That is a while back.
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They were promoting Paul Joseph Watson's book, Order Out of Chaos.
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Holy shit, how rude was he?
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Uh, 17?
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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Jesus.
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Yeah, but he's around and that's a lot of fun, but, hey, unlistenable audio.
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Too bad.
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So here we are on the 10th.
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I'm very excited about this episode, Jordan.
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Okay.
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I've been waiting anxiously to be able to talk about this.
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It's so much fun.
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And before we get down to business, another thing that's fun.
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Saying hello to some new wonks.
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Ooh, nicely done.
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So first, they did Grand Dirty 2.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much.
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This is something that apparently you're supposed to-
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Cowboy Bebop.
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Okay.
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Cowboy Bebop, my friend.
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All right.
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Next, Bill Cooper's long lost right leg.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much.
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Also, Cowboy Bebop.
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But not quite Cowboy Bebop.
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Next, petition for Alex Jones to move to TikTok so Dan can use it.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much.
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I will not.
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Never.
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Next, Rayma.
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Pronounced Rayma.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much.
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I guess I probably would have pronounced it Rayma if I didn't have the help.
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That helps.
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And the sexy bathwater.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you very much.
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Thank you.
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Now, Jordan.
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Yes, Dan.
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July 10th.
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July 10th.
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2003.
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7-10-03.
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Could not be more thrilled that this audio was listenable because if this wasn't, I would
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feel just so deprived.
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Here's how we start.
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Okay.
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Coming up later in the show, I have one of the chief neo cons coming on the broadcast.
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One of the big spin doctors, one of the, one of the co-opters of the conservative movement
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in this country.
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In fact, if you're tuning to talk radio, whether it's a local show or national show, they're
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all telling you that, well, Bush is okay.
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Yeah.
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He's got your guns, but go ahead and turn them in.
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It's the conservative thing to do.
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And well, the Patriot Act doesn't take any of your rights, those lying liberals.
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You know, they, they're trying to tell you bad stories.
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Well, I'm not a liberal folks and I've read both Patriot Acts and they're so horrible
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that it staggers the mind that they would put this type of stuff on paper.
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Alex has got a big neo con coming on the show.
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Who could it be?
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Who's the big neo con?
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Is it Irving Kristol?
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Oh no, no.
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Ooh, is it Wolfowitz?
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Is it someone from the project for a new American century?
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Has the national review been reborn with a clone of what's his face?
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Who knows?
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William F. Buckley.
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Yes.
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How did I forget Buckley's name?
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That's Alex's cousin.
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Exactly.
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Um, look, we don't know who it is and Alex won't say.
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So that's coming up today and we have, we have a couple other guests too, but we'll
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just announce the guests when they come on with us because I don't want to, uh, sometimes
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when I have a neo con coming on and we talk about it, then, uh, end up not coming on the
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show.
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So we'll just sit back and enjoy that today.
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The Trojan horses, I'm going to have more of the Trojan horses on this show and endless
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parade of them.
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Yeah.
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So Alex is going to have a parade of Trojan horses.
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I like he's getting excited about this idea that now he's going to get these neo cons
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on and he's just gonna, he's going to go toe to toe with them.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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Very exciting.
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But he can't say their names because if he does, they might cancel.
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The Trojan horse.
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Yeah.
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When you let it in was, that was the big mistake.
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That was the problem.
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Yeah.
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See, it wasn't that there was a Trojan horse outside.
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That was a great place for the horse to be.
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You want to keep it out there.
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You defeat the Trojan horse by leaving it alone.
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Just let it go.
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You don't want a parade of Trojan horses.
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That's a parade worse than regular.
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They're very right about that.
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Yeah.
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This metaphor is clunky at best.
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Not good.
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But I do love this idea that like I can't say the name because if I do, they're going
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to cancel.
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What kind of asshole hears their name in the first hour?
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I gotta get out of here.
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No way am I going on this show.
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I might cancel if I heard Alex talking like this.
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In the third hour today, I have one of the chief neo cons coming on the show.
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One of the top Trojan horses, one of the technicians there to pacify real conservatism and to sell
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you the sugar coated cyanide tablet of the new world order that is the neo con big government
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gun grab open border police state promoting fraud.
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Sure.
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We're going to have more and more of these slimy creatures on the show so that I can
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crush them in front of you and show you that they are fraud.
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I'll probably cancel.
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Hey, I'm going to cancel.
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Guys, I'm going to give him a call real quick.
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What an exciting prospect.
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I'm a slimy creature which is only invited on the show to crush in front of his audience.
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Yeah, that's a, that's a little bit combative before it's even begun.
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Yeah.
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Not, not, uh, not great.
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Um, and it gets, I mean, this theme continues.
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I do have a big fat neo con coming on the show later, but I will, I will dish and bowel
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with their, with their own lies against them, their own spin against them.
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And uh, also we have another guest as well.
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We'll announce those when they come up.
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At this point, I'm just thinking like he's trying to get this person to cancel.
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Yeah, this is like, please just cancel.
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I am.
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I am going to disembowel this person because if I actually talk to them, I will be disemboweled
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because I'm full of shit.
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This is a big fat slimy neo con who I've only invited on the show as a trap to destroy them
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in front of my audience.
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Neo con who I'm going to demolish.
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It doesn't scream good faith.
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No.
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And so I was listening to this, I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
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So excited.
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This is going to be fun.
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Uh, but I also was like, this person's going to cancel.
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And then Alex is going to be like, wow, what another coward.
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That was kind of what I thought was going to happen.
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It does not.
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That is not what happens.
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The person shows up and it's a mess.
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In studio?
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No.
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Oh, okay.
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Okay.
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Um, but before we get to that, cause that's in the third hour.
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Yes.
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Plenty of other meat to get to.
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Like, um, on our, on our last episode going over, uh, the 2003 stuff, Alex had warned
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that on the 4th of July there might be a little bit of a terrorist attack.
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Sure.
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Well, I mean, it's a good day for it.
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And so this caller asks about like, Hey man, what was going on?
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What happened?
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Yeah, there wasn't a, why wasn't there?
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What?
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Yeah.
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I heard you, um, say something about, you were worried about the, uh, federal reserve
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bankers.
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That's my interpretation.
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Not setting loose a terrorist attack on the 4th of July.
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Uh, no, but they said that I said, I didn't know that would happen.
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They put out a lot of fake terror.
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Yeah, that helps.
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Nailed it.
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We know they're only going to do it when our kids are in school.
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That's, you know, they've been trading for that.
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Yeah.
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According to the red alert and Washington post and the news service out of New Jersey,
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they said, we're quote enemies that we leave our homes.
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Our children will be taken to undisclosed locations.
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And I have the associated press as early as 99.
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It's in the takeover where they say FEMA was running this plan.
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I know.
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So we can't trust them.
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We can't, we can't open up the school year and now, you know, if you want to open up
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the revolution, that would be a good way to do it is to, is to not go along with the next
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school year.
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That would open up a whole panacea of questions and there's already, it's gone from 1 million
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five years ago to 2 million a year ago to 3 million kids homeschooling this year, this
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last school year.
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And the way it's growing, the exodus, they are panicking.
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That's why they're trying to shut that down.
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Thanks for the call, Peter.
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What?
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What's even being discussed here?
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Why was there, why wasn't there a terrorist attack?
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It's just cause they said there was going to be, I didn't say there was going to be
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one.
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They said there was going to be one and I just reported that they were saying that there
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was going to be one.
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So maybe there was, but it didn't happen and I wasn't wrong.
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They were lying.
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Right.
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Well, it's kind of like, it's kind of like that whole QAnon thing that's like misinformation
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is part of the, it's part of it.
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You know, sometimes when we say things are wrong, maybe it was just important to the
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plan that misinformation get out.
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It's art of war.
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Disinformation is important for both enemies and allies.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's, that's, that's kind of the, the, I like his rejoinder of like, well, obviously
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there wasn't a terrorist attack.
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They're only going to do it when our kids are in school.
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Well that's what the collar brings up.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Now that's an interesting premise.
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So they're only going to do a giant terrorist attack when kids are in school and therefore
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the way to stop this from happening is to never go back to school.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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It is, it is so fictional.
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It's a little bit like two D and D nerds arguing like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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Dragons only attack near large mountains.
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It's not going to be an attack on Riverrun.
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It's not the way to protect from dragons.
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Never go near the mountains.
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Get rid of all mountains.
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Get rid of them.
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Burn them up.
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Yeah.
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And I like that Alex's response to that seems to be like, yeah, yeah.
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So the way to stop these, they're the big one from coming, is not have the kids in school.
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And that's why homeschooling is so popular and that's why they're attacking the institution
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of homeschooling because they need to have those kids in school for when the giant terrorist
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attack does happen.
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God.
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All right.
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What kind of a day did the globalists have where they were like, oh no, we were going
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to do it when all the kids were in school, but we took too long.
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Now there's so many of them being homeschooled.
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What are we going to do now?
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It's does like Montessori school.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Waldorf education.
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Right.
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I don't know.
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I have questions.
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I need Alex to clarify.
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Anyway.
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Um, my man, Dan from Illinois is back.
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He's such a good dude.
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He calls in every day.
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Oh boy.
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Dan in Illinois, you're on the air.
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Go ahead.
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Alex.
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Yes, sir.
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Too bad Rumsfeld couldn't, he started out with the truth as far as saying, uh, it's
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not about weapons and mass corruption too bad.
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They can't just go ahead and tell the truth and explain what we're doing.
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White paper published in 98 by him and Dick Cheney saying, quote, Saddam is not a threat.
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He is a pretext for natural resources and a military base.
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Right.
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Interesting.
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So Alex brings up this, uh, this document, this letter, and he can't be talking about
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the rebuilding America's defense document, the, the PNAC document, uh, as it's often
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called because the date is off.
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He's saying it's in 1998.
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What Alex is talking about is not a white paper and the more you hear him use that term,
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the more you need to ask yourself if he even knows what that means.
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This was a 1998 open letter that the project for the new American century sent to then
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president Clinton, urging him to pursue regime change in Iraq.
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The letter begins, quote, we're writing you because we're convinced that current American
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policy toward Iraq is not succeeding and that we may soon face a threat in the middle East
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more serious than we have known since the end of the cold war in your upcoming state
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of the union address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for
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meeting this threat.
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We urge you to seize that opportunity and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure
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the interest of the United States and our friends and allies around the world.
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That strategy should aim above all at the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power.
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Agree with it or not.
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That statement absolutely doesn't seem like it's coming from folks who are saying that
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Saddam doesn't pose a threat.
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No, no.
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That one says Saddam's a pretty big threat and we got to get rid of him.
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Seems like it.
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Yeah.
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Uh, that was a memo from 1998 that was signed onto by Donald Rumsfeld, but not Dick Cheney,
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as Alex is saying.
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Another signee though is a future Trump national security advisor, John Bolton.
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Hey, that's good stuff.
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An apparatchik as Alex would say.
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A couple months after that letter was sent, the group followed up with another letter
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to Newt Gingrich, then the speaker of the house and Trent Lott, the then Senate majority
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leader.
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The letter was basically them reporting that they'd tried to get Clinton to work on getting
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Saddam out of power, but he wasn't biting.
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They reiterated that it was their belief that policies of containment that had been in place
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regarding Saddam weren't working and that if left unchecked, he posed a very severe
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threat, perhaps the worst since the cold war.
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These are the letters that were written in 1998 that were seen as being indicative of
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a long standing desire on the part of the members of the Bush administration to topple
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Saddam's government.
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It's either the case that Alex is just making up things about these documents or he has
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such a shaky grasp on what they say that he thinks that they're saying that Saddam isn't
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a threat and that it's just an opportunity for resources.
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Right.
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I don't know.
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I mean, I guess what he's saying is he's just editorializing that they were aware within
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those letters that they sent saying we should overthrow Saddam.
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What was unsaid was that the reason we're doing this is because we want that fucking
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oil.
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Well, that's an interesting, that's an interesting interpretation, and if Alex said secretly
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they were signaling, then the claim would be different.
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It would be very different.
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He's saying that they sent and wrote the white papers saying that they knew that Saddam wasn't
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a threat and they just wanted resources to make a base, which is not what that letter
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says.
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It would be a bad idea to write a letter that says that, and I'm going to throw this out
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there, because it could be obtained by Iraq.
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People in the future?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, Iraq or people in the future.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It could have been caught by them.
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I wouldn't, I wouldn't put that in writing.
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Yeah.
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So Alex gets another caller.
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This isn't Dan in Illinois, but this caller asks about like, you know, hey, we talk about
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tyranny a lot, but what about the tyranny of the early part of our country?
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How do you feel about that?
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Okay.
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Good point.
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All right.
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There's a lot of tyranny expressed towards non-white males.
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What about slavery?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Alex has some interesting thoughts about this.
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I am not surprised.
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Jason, you have a system set up in America where the individual is protected above the
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interest of the state or any criminal crime rings that set themselves up.
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That didn't mean though that all the protections there were enforced or directed to the Indians
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or blacks in this country.
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And it's up to blacks and Indians and any other human being to stand up and demand their
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God-given rights that the ninth and 10th amendment and others only point out.
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No one can take your liberties and freedoms, but certainly what happened to the American
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Indians was wrong to the native Americans.
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That is a cute view of history, but it's so detached from reality that I can't really
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believe that this is an expression of like idealism or naivete seems like rationalizing
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is what he's doing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's fine that they were slaves because if they didn't want to be slaves, they should
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have fucking done something about it.
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The idea that no one can take your rights is so dumb that it barely has meaning in the
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real world.
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If US history teaches us one thing, it's that you can totally have your rights deprived
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from you.
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You may still have those rights in an abstract sense, like you deserve those rights, but
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in terms of actual concrete reality, if the US says you can't vote, you don't have the
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right to vote.
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No.
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In the United States at least.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The angle that Alex is taking seems like a cop out, but that has nothing to do with the
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absurdity of this position that he's like, well, maybe the protection of rights weren't
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enforced or directed to native Americans or black Americans.
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What does it mean to not have protection of rights directed at you?
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It feels like it means like you don't have those rights.
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I think what he's trying to say is that the founding fathers were like itching at the
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bit to give everybody rights, but because black people and native Americans at that
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time didn't ask the founding fathers for those rights.
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Did they not?
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They didn't ask.
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Okay.
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They didn't say anything.
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They were just like, hey, I'm loving this genocide over here.
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You guys keep it coming.
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Yeah.
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When you, when you say that the protection or the enforcement of rights weren't directed
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at these people, it seems like what you're really, you're just trying really hard to
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not say that the US had laws on the books depriving people of specific rights based
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on their race or gender.
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The stupidest part of this clip is that Alex is pretending that he thinks that groups
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like native Americans and black Americans needed to stand up and demand their God given
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rights.
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That's dumb because the way he's saying that, you'd really have to think that he
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would be right there on their side supporting campaigns for equal rights for all Americans.
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Right.
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That's not true.
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He has stated his opposition to the civil rights act in the past because among other
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things he feels that requiring businesses to serve people of all races could be a violation
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of their right of free association.
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Further, his heroes and intellectual traditions that his worldview grows out of, they fought
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tooth and nail against the civil rights act and the voting rights act.
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His favorite author, Gary Allen wrote the book, communist revolution in the streets
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portraying the calls by black Americans for equal rights as the result of a nefarious
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communist conspiracy.
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Alex doesn't believe any of the things he's saying to this caller.
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He just knows that, you know, believing otherwise is bad.
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Yeah.
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Look.
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Yeah.
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You can't really say that.
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And then if somebody was like, Hey, what about that time America made it illegal to be Chinese
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here?
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You can't be like, Oh, that was too far in the past.
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Well, the Chinese Americans just didn't stand up.
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They didn't ask.
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They didn't ask to stay.
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I'm telling you.
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Yeah.
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Everybody does.
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You got to ask for what you need.
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Otherwise you're going to let white people just run all over you.
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They didn't ask to not be excluded.
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It was a terrible idea.
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You got to send a letter first.
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True.
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It's gotta be notarized.
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It's gotta be notarized.
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So, um, Alex gets another caller and this guy has an interesting idea about how to promote
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Alex to the masses.
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Make it illegal to be Chinese here.
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No, his idea would not work well.
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Oh, okay.
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I really hope your, your staff and stuff try to get you on, um, uh, Comedy Central's, uh,
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uh, Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
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Well, I didn't want to mention this, but I've told folks that Gary Busey has called me quite
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a bit.
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I got his home number.
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He's a listener of the show and he is a maniac, but he's on target on a lot of subjects.
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I'm with Busey, uh, and, uh, we've got it, uh, unfortunately we've got it from online.
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I didn't see it.
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Everybody called about it.
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My buddy saw it live.
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He's talking about nanotech computers, how dangerous they are.
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And he goes, but I can't talk about the new world order on this show.
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This is a quote.
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I can't talk about the new world order on this show.
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And he goes, well, what's the new world order?
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He goes, police state 2000.
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I know Gary, you know, Gary got police state 2000 from me in all my videos.
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So the caller is saying, Hey, you should go on the Daily Show.
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And Alex's response to that is, Hey, you know what?
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Gary Busey likes me.
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I mean, I'm with Busey is a show that was on Comedy Central.
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That's true.
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So I guess there's a little bit of connective tissue there, but I forgot about I'm with
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Busey.
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It's easy to forget.
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It is.
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I will only ever remember.
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Look, I live a charmed life.
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My Busey began, ended point break.
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And I never have to worry about another Busey.
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What about that, uh, wasn't it, uh, that baseball movie, wasn't he in that baseball movie?
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Rookie of the year.
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Wasn't he in Rookie of the Year?
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Yes, he was in Rookie of the Year.
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Yeah, come on.
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Yes.
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He was in Rookie of the Year with one of the all time great reveals that the glove was
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actually his mom's.
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Oh man.
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And it's time to play softball.
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Uh, Celebrity Rehab.
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He was on that show.
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I don't remember that one.
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How did he do?
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Did he get rehabbed?
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He seemed to not think he had a problem, which is not surprising.
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That's not a good place to start.
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If I recall correctly, he thought he was, he was acting like he thought he was there
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to be a counselor.
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Like, uh.
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I like that.
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I like that.
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That's fun.
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It led to a little bit of tension between him and Dr. Drew.
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Dr. Drew?
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Just needed an assistant, man.
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Yeah, so I called in the Busey.
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So I called in Busey to help me with these dumb celebrities over here.
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I do think I would, I would be interested to see how Jon Stewart would try to handle
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Alex though.
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I think that would be an interesting meeting of the minds.
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Um, yeah, it didn't happen.
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Nope.
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So are you ready to find out who the big fat slimy neocon is?
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Of course I am.
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Is it Will Crystal?
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It is not.
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It is not.
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Is it Newt Gingrich?
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It's not.
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It's not Tucker Carlson.
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Okay.
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Although he would have been, uh, someone that Alex would call that back then.
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Yeah.
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And he was slimy as fuck.
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Um, nope.
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I've got the neocon princess Ann Coulter scheduled to come up today on the show in the next hour.
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And she says the Patriot Act doesn't take any of your rights, the lying liberals must
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be stopped, and L. Bush is a gun grabber and that's good, and uh, oh but McCarthy, he's
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a good guy so we can trust her.
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Yeah but she won't tell you that McCarthy was, got snuffed politically because he exposed
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that the globalists were behind the communists and that was McCarthy so we'll see if she
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defends McCarthy all the way.
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Yeah man, so it's Ann Coulter.
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So he is going to tell me that Ann Coulter supported McCarthy and that that is a bad
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thing.
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No.
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He's, he wants to know if she supports McCarthy enough.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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Oh boy.
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Like the supporting McCarthy is the, like that's the Trojan horse aspect of it.
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Yes.
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The other stuff like the belief in the Patriot Act and neoconservativism and all this stuff.
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Yeah.
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That's the stuff that she really believes but then she tricks you into liking her but
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with her support of McCarthy.
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Right.
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Right.
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That's the premise that Alex is going on.
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I thought a lot of people really got tricked by Ann Coulter's support of McCarthy.
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I thought that was a big thing that tricked him.
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Sneaky.
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She's so clever like that.
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I can't believe she got away with it for so long.
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So at this point in 2003, Ann Coulter had just released her book titled Treason!
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Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism.
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Around this time Coulter was at the peak of her powers as a media troll who would just
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say inflammatory things and then get people mad at her to facilitate a cycle of attention.
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It worked really well back then, far more so than now.
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The book Treason was in a large part about how Coulter felt that McCarthyism was something
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that was created by the liberals' imagination and that McCarthy was in fact right and did
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a great job of rounding up communist spies.
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Like we have all of his words though.
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They like wrote them down.
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Yeah it's true.
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Some of it was on TV.
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Yeah.
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This stuff isn't true but a big part of this show that we do here is humoring ideas.
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So I decided to bite.
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Let's do it.
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I read a number of interviews that she gave around this time and the thing that she seems
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to point to as her primary evidence that McCarthy was right is the 1995 release of the Venona
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intercepts.
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These are translated cables that have been captured by US intelligence in like the 1940s.
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The Venona intercepts are actually very fascinating and they paint a picture about the scope of
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Soviet intelligence projects during the Cold War.
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There are some things that they definitely could be used to demonstrate.
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Like for instance that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were in fact Soviet spies.
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Yes that was true.
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I found that out whenever I read about it.
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And the Venona intercepts do definitely back this up.
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There definitely was some indication that there were a few people within government
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who were cooperative with the Soviet Union and providing them with information.
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That is a fair assessment of the Venona intercepts.
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But to say that they go so far as to prove Joseph McCarthy to be on the up and up is
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not supported by the information available.
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No, no.
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McCarthy was a raving lunatic with a penchant for public spectacle.
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Though a lot of the fervor around anti-communist witch hunts in that period, they're associated
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with the House Un-American Activities Committee, McCarthy himself presided over the Senate
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Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations which he used to grandstand against alleged communists.
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The transcripts of his hearings between 1953 and 1954 are all available and they don't
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paint a great picture of the man.
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These transcripts probably weren't available to Ann Coulter at the time of the writing
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of the book though since they were only made public in January 2003 and this book was probably
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written for the most part by that.
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That being said, even before 2003 there was plenty of public information that would lead
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someone to assess McCarthy as being an idiot and a piece of shit.
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It's fun to imagine he was just trying to find out the communist spies and the government
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but you have to recognize he was also doing stuff like the following, quote, the State
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Department's International Information Agency operated several overseas libraries that were
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freely available to citizens in host countries.
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McCarthy declared them to be Soviet tools because there were books in the libraries
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authored by communists and their quote fellow travelers.
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He harassed the libraries so fiercely as communist propagating tools that some of the libraries
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actually burned the books written by authors McCarthy deemed to be subversive.
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So he's doing shit like that too.
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Man, at no point in time, at no point in time are we gonna get a hundred percent of people
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saying burning books is a dumb idea.
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We're just never gonna get there.
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Yeah.
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You can get most people on board.
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I mean but it should be a hundred.
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So we've gotten into McCarthy a bit in the past so I don't want to go too far down that
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road again but I was just really interested when I heard Alex say that he was wanting
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to give Ann Coulter some kind of a McCarthy purity test.
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Seeing that she defended him based on the Venona intercepts just kind of led down a
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weird road of looking into this and like seeing like oh this does actually it does back up
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some stuff you know like there were right there were Soviet spies.
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So he's not gonna surprise me and be like I'm gonna give her a litmus test on McCarthy
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did you like blood meridian a lot of that kind of stuff a lot of this stuff doesn't
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even come up in Alex's interview which is why we have to deal with that up top.
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Of course.
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I was gonna say of course.
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Yeah but it's just weird that citing the Venona intercept is a fairly solid way to
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argue that there were Soviet spies running around in the Cold War period and yet I've
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literally never heard Alex bring them up.
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That is weird.
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Looking into Ann Coulter and her arguments in favor of McCarthy are the first time that
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they have ever come up in any of the discussion of things on the show.
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That is really weird.
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You'd think he'd incorporate them into the routine.
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I mean it's just so it's evidence.
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It is.
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Yeah.
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Maybe that's why I can't have it.
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Yeah but I think it also is evidence that has a finite point of utility.
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Like you can't use it to argue like he likes to that McCarthy found that the globalists
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were running the communists or whatever.
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Those sorts of things you don't really need evidence for because they're you know you're
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not gonna have that evidence.
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Things like the Venona intercepts are like those are real they exist and they get you
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this far.
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Right.
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Not as far as Alex wants to go.
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No.
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It's almost by omission make McCarthy look like an even more insane a person considering
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it's my take on it.
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Yeah like no no no there was real shit going on and he's like no no no we got to make sure
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Hollywood writers can't work.
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Exactly.
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Yeah yeah.
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So we get to Alex bringing Ann Coulter in and this is a meeting of the minds my friend.
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Ann thanks for coming on the show.
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Sure hi there.
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Tell us a little bit more about yourself then we're gonna break and come back and get into
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the meat and potatoes of your newest book.
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I'm a five foot tall blonde.
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Six foot tall five ten.
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And you certainly break the stereotype of blondes not being smart.
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My mom's a blonde she's real smart.
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Yes this is a rumor invented by liberals.
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So I thought I thought he was gonna destroy her this seems pretty.
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Very collegial starting off.
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Seems polite.
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Yeah.
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Kind of fun.
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Yeah.
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Friendly.
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I mean.
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When the Trojan horse came in they had a nice party.
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Sure.
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That's the same thing.
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You know buttering her up before we destroy her.
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Maybe maybe who knows.
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Tell us about your newest book.
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It's about the 50 year history of pressure of the Democratic Party of the Democratic
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Party becoming a refuge for for traitors for Soviet spies in the 50s and on to defeats
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in Vietnam losing continents to communism being completely wrong through eight years
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of Reagan and now back to their old tricks again in the war on terrorism.
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And boy are they back to their old tricks again.
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Yes they are.
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Boy this this show is so above the left right paradigm.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Man.
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All Democrats are evil.
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Anyways you're the best.
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Love you too.
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It does seem a bit more friendly than I expected and I kind of thought like oh okay Alex was
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talking big hoping the person would bail so he wouldn't have to do the interview but the
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fact that it is happening Ann Coulter is a big star at this point.
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She's got a lot of pull that he can he can grab on to if she likes it.
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I thought that that was what was going to happen.
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Yeah.
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I was wrong.
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This falls apart really hard.
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Good.
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But it starts out seeming like you're just being a kiss ass.
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Yeah yeah yeah.
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This is sycophantic.
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But pretty quick Alex has to you know clear the air.
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Look lady I'm a Ron Paul type of guy.
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Time to get this going.
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I need you to know this up front.
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Ann Coulter I'm gonna be honest with you right up front here on the air I consider myself
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a real conservative a Ron Paul type conservative slash libertarian and I you wouldn't would
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you consider yourself a neo-con a neo-conservative?
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No I'm a conservative.
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Okay because a lot of the White House calls themselves neo-cons and you know that's their
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own word and you know Bush says he'll resign the assault weapons ban and add some nice
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little tidbits to it.
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Bush has voted with Hillary and others for open borders.
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Hillary voted with Bush for the war so I don't know if it's just a Republican Democrat issue.
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I mean how do you respond to that that that Bush I mean we see the biggest growth in the
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federal government ever and a lot of different things developing how do you respond to that
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could conservatives do more to shine the spotlight on the dirt in our own house?
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I think it's up to conservatives to fight these issues by persuading their fellow countrymen
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that we don't want big socialism supported by Teddy Kennedy and Hillary and not just
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sit back and say oh Bush should be stopping all of this.
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Bush is the president as president and a Republican he has the whole mainstream media against
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him I think Ronald Reagan did this as well the president can really only focus it seems
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to me on about three issues and I think the issues Bush has chosen are the war on terrorism
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taxes and the judiciary but you can't read you know persuade an entire nation to stop
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voting for benefits for themselves to us to persuade our the soccer moms out there and
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our congressman and our senators that we don't want big socialism.
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But Ann Coulter that's kind of a cop-out I mean let's be honest here and we'll get into
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your book but I want to get this out of the way in front.
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Wow so I mean it's mildly confrontational but I think this is a little spicier than
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you'd expect pretty quick.
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I'm liking that.
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Ann's comment that the president can only really do two three like three things that's
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kind of telling if she's trying to make excuses for Bush by saying he shouldn't be judged
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except for based on the three issues he's decided to focus on shouldn't she have the
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same latitude for any politician?
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No!
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Any Democrat president?
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No!
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Ann's biggest issue could be let's say reducing regulation but that wasn't one of the three
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issues that Obama decided to focus on so shouldn't she have the same kind of what can you do
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attitude towards it?
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I think this is a pretty transparent dodging of the question I'm pretty glad that Alex
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just didn't let it stand you know like I don't know this is a cop-out.
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Of course Alex's objection to her answer isn't going to be anything close to where I'm coming
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from but at least he's not giving up on it entirely.
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You know there is something to be said for like hold on a second.
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No that's that's some bullshit.
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President can listen when you elect somebody to run a several trillion dollar enterprise
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per year called the American government what you want to make sure they can only do is
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focus on three out of the ten million possible things going on at any given point in time.
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I actually do think that there is some credence to what she's saying in terms of being a public
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advocate about every issue.
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Being able to spend political capital is one of the ways you can say there are only three
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things that he can focus on.
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Your administration if you're good at delegating things can have other priorities that you're
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working towards.
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Let's say your State Department is invested in X, Y, and Z.
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Your Department of the Interior is doing all this stuff.
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Your education department is doing these things.
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Like there is a lot that the president could delegate but yeah I guess I wouldn't say they
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can only focus on three things but in terms of what you can publicly really make awareness
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towards you know maybe three maybe four you know there is a limited amount of time that
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a president has to advocate publicly for things and I do think that she makes a fine point
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that it is up to you know the conservative folk in America just to convince their fellow
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voters to go along with it like whatever they think is the platform that people should be
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going towards.
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True true but this is one of the stunning aspects of American politics and actually
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politics in general is how often presidents are insistent insistent that the buck does
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not stop there absolutely not it's not my fault I've only been I've only I can only
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focus on three things at the you know I got this going on I got that going on you don't
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have to hold me responsible for all the stuff I delegate you know that kind of thing and
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that's kind of what I'm hearing again and again and again and again.
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Yeah yeah it's I take issue with the point that she's making although a different version
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of the point she's making I think I could see where it was coming from.
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Right right right.
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It's kind of where I'm at.
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It's a distortion of a good point.
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Yeah so here's Alex's objection.
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Dan Colter that's kind of a cop out I mean let's be honest and we'll get into your book
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but I want to get this out of the way up front.
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Bush doesn't have to sign the assault weapons ban 87 percent of Americans are against it
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in major polls 89 percent in the Gallup poll against the open borders which he's been pushing
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for.
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What is open borders?
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Pardon me?
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What do you mean?
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Oh no.
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Oh no.
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Two grifters can't be asking to define terms.
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Alex's kryptonite is definition.
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You guys are going to be in real trouble here.
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Yeah.
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You don't want to open that can of worms.
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What does open borders mean?
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What do any of our buzzwords mean?
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Uh oh.
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Also Alex's objection seems to be like things that Bush didn't end up doing.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Well.
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His objection seems to be like things he's afraid of which don't happen.
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He's above the left right paradigm and above the left right paradigm you don't have to
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worry about all the reality that the left right paradigm deals with.
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Above the left right paradigm you're just worried that everyone isn't going to be as
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extreme right as you want them to be.
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Right.
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Right.
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Above the left line you're just looking at weird gremlins all over the place.
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So your instinct was right that Alex does not want to have to define things and he fails.
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These are.
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What is open borders?
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Pardon me?
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What do you mean?
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Oh he had Fox up here right before 9-1-1 pushing for another blanket 10 million amnesty.
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He's all part of this push for this Pan American Union.
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I mean look I don't hear this on conservative talk radio.
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Bush the NRA did put out an alert though.
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Bush says he's going to re-sign that assault weapons bill.
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How can you say that that you know he's got the whole media against him.
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I don't care if he had the whole media against him he needs to to not sign that assault weapons
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ban.
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Well I think he also needs to get re-elected and there are a lot of soccer moms who vote
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out there and I'm just saying that a conservative president can't take on every issue at once.
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He does have to look at being re-elected.
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I think he'll probably be re-elected without much trouble.
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So you think it's okay to sign the assault weapons ban?
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I don't think it's okay but I'm saying instead of sitting back and complaining that Bush
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isn't doing everything for us I think we have to understand that there's only so much the
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president of the United States can do.
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I think that clip is super revealing.
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The first thing you see is that Alex can't define what he means by open borders in any
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sensible way.
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Granting amnesty to a certain amount of people who are already here is not the equivalent
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of opening the borders.
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The only other thing he could even come up with was that Bush supported the Pan American
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Union.
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None of this amounts to open borders and I think that Alex is going to need to define
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what he means by Pan American Union because that definitely has existed for a long time.
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In 1889 the first international conference of the American states was held in DC.
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This was quote for the purpose of discussing and recommending for adoption to their respective
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governments some plan of arbitration for the settlement of disagreements and disputes that
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may hereafter arise between them and for considering questions relating to the improvement of business
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intercourse and means of direct communication between said countries and to encourage such
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reciprocal commercial relations as will be beneficial to all and secure more extensive
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markets toward the products of each said nation.
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If Alex is going to be mad about anybody for this stuff he should take it up with Benjamin
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Harrison.
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Yeah that guy was a real dick.
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Out of this conference the International Union of American Republics was founded which would
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go on to be named the Pan American Union which then became the Organization of American States.
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Alex isn't worried about a Pan American Union he's just worried that Bush is going to let
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more non-white people into the country but even so he has a terrible grasp on being able
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to defend what is a really strong accusation and that is that Bush supports open borders.
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On some level Alex knows that he can't back up that hyperbole and Ann has called him out
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on it to define his terms.
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He can't without admitting that Bush isn't actually in favor of open borders as he wants
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the audience to understand the term so he quickly pivots to the assault weapons ban.
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Alex doesn't even really have good information to go on here all he can throw out is that
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the NRA put out an alert that they think Bush is going to ban assault weapons and that's
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really weak.
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It's interesting how Ann concedes the point because I think she gets the sense that it's
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not even worth arguing so she retreats to the very reasonable point that a president
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can only do so much and has to consider getting re-elected.
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I think here we can see a fundamental difference in how someone like Ann Coulter and someone
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like Alex Jones understands power and leadership.
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For someone like Ann being the president is part of a process.
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You're picking up where your predecessor left off and you're going to leave the next president
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the circumstances that your term ends in.
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You can do a lot but ultimately you can't alienate the voters who determine whether
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you'll stay in office.
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You have to make concessions and recognize that imperfect compromises might need to be
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struck.
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Someone like Alex doesn't view leaders that way.
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He really does ascribe to a strongman dictator mold in terms of people he likes and would
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want to be in charge.
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People who would come in with a set agenda that caters to Alex's social and political
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preferences and then put in place whatever, whether or not most people wanted it.
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We saw this play out with Trump and even back at this point his supporter Ron Paul has a
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lot of similarities.
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Because he's never been president we don't know if he'd actually follow through with
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it but Alex has every reason to think that the day Ron Paul got into office he'd unilaterally
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withdraw us from the UN, he'd get rid of pretty much every social welfare program, shut down
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OSHA, and eliminate all foreign aid.
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Alex has this fantasy of what Ron Paul would do and thankfully for him we never had to
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test the theory of whether or not he would do it.
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Anne on the other hand has had experiences in the actual political world and she's had
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politicians she's supported become president.
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Because she's very close to the actual workings of politics and doesn't have the same delusional
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idealism that Alex had in 2003 and still had about Trump, although he's threatening that
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if Trump disappoints him 20 more times then it's going to be over.
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Any number of times now is going to be the last straw.
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Yeah.
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I'm not certain it means much but I really felt like this difference came through in
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this chunk of their conversation.
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Alex has this delusional expectation that Bush do things that he's not doing already
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whereas Anne has a pragmatism towards the political process.
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At this point I was like she's gonna win real easily.
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This is not going to be good.
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It does not appear to be going well for Alex right out of the gate.
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It does not seem like he's going to eviscerate her in front of the audience in order to dance
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upon her bones.
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If I were him this would be a point where I'm starting to walk back my position, get
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real polite again.
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Get real polite again.
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You know what?
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Let's talk more about your book.
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Let's talk extensively.
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Your book is amazing.
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Let's talk about how great McCarthy was.
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Jesus.
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So in this interview Anne ends up making a point that I actually think is really good
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and insightful about Alex.
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Too many conservatives sit back and think, you know, this is all Bush's fault, well go
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out and persuade some soccer moms, go out and write an op-ed, complain to ABC, NBC,
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CBS.
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Write to your congressman, write to your senator.
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The problem with this is, look, about half the country voted for Al Gore in the last
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election.
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We have to change that and can't just sit back and say we got our guy in, now he's going
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to be our savior on everything.
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I wish he were, but he's not going to be, even Ronald Reagan couldn't be.
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We've got to focus as president on three big issues and I wish both Reagan and Bush were
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more conservative and voted every way and vetoed every bill that I didn't like.
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So this is a fascinating point here.
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Alex would never agree with it, but I think Anne is fairly right in accusing Alex of insisting
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that Bush do everything for him.
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In the past I wouldn't have looked at it this way necessarily because in many ways Alex
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is doing something that could be described as politically active, the way that Anne's
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like get out there and do something.
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Right.
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He's on a radio show, he's advocating for his political beliefs, which is in line with
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what Anne is suggesting people do.
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But Anne's point is there too, because Alex's show is basically just complaining about how
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Bush isn't doing everything that he wants him to do.
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There's a passing of the buck in Alex's politics because he believes that things get done by
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strong singular leaders, as opposed to the result of collective action, miscellaneous
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financial interests, and sometimes coincidences.
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Bush signing the assault weapons ban, which he didn't do, wouldn't be the result of a
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ton of influences like millions of people electing members of Congress who would pass
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legislation for Bush to sign in the first place, or special interest groups lobbying
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for or against the bill.
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It would just be a matter of Bush doing this to us because he's bad.
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If Bush were good, then the millions of voters, or the majorities in Congress, or the lobbying
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groups, they wouldn't matter.
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He would just do whatever Alex believed was right, even if doing so meant causing ridiculous
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political conflicts and possibly torpedoing his own career.
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It's enticing to think of Alex's habit of looking at his favorite politicians as an
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all-powerful daddy, like it started with Trump, but I don't know.
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I think that feature is probably there a little bit consistently.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that is a... I mean, to a certain... Okay, okay.
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That's a function, really, of his same show, though.
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In his efforts with his show, he is consistently telling his audience, you don't have to do
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anything.
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You give me the money so I can do stuff.
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In essence, his political ideology is, well, I'm not the politician, so my job is to support
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whomever for them to do it for me in the same way that my listeners give me money so I can
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do bullshit.
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It seems like an almost one-to-one explanation for how he thinks everything operates.
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Sure.
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But there also seems to be... I guess the idea would be to use the political organizing
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of Alex's show, like there's enough listeners, and if they vote, we can vote for the person
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who will do everything we want them to do.
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Right, right.
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So it is still kind of like... It's painfully idealistic in a way that, I guess, I don't
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address nearly enough, I don't think.
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We could theoretically vote for somebody who wanted universal healthcare, but apparently
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we won't.
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And the goal is to convince people to vote for people who would.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's going well.
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So Alex brings up a bill that Bush didn't veto and gets a little bit confused.
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Barber-Boxer said arm all the pilots.
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It's better than having the F-16s shoot the planes down.
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Bush said he didn't want to arm any of the pilots.
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Now how do you... And then the conservatives did put pressure on him and he let it go through.
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He was stopping that, threatening a veto.
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Now what do you say to that?
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He didn't veto it.
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Because of pressure.
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Yeah, man.
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Well, see, that makes your point for you.
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Oops.
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It seems like Alex is almost arguing with himself.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A wrench so big was thrown into his brain, he's now agreeing with her to defeat himself.
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Yeah, so he realizes that he's made Ant's point.
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Yeah, really well.
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And so he just decides to get mean.
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Well, see, that makes your point for you, but at the same time, if a big name like you,
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an articulate individual like yourself, who's kind of a mascot, well, not kind of a mascot
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you are for the conservatives, and I think that's fine.
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We need intelligent women out there doing this, then we need to have you help put some
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pressure in there as well.
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And I haven't heard you do it.
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I mean, you have done a little bit today, and I appreciate that.
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Look, I do in my book.
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I am advising your audience that we need to persuade the American people and our representatives
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and senators.
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I mean, what's the alternative?
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Vote for Al Gore?
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No.
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I'm just saying, this is what Reagan did, this is what Bush did, is doing.
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There's only so much a president can do.
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I've said this many times, I'm sure you can come up with lots of stuff he did that I don't
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like.
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Real dickish.
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Yeah.
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Real rude to call her a mascot, and the reason that she's a mascot is because she's an intelligent
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conservative woman.
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I was going to say that what he just told her is that you're our token intelligent woman,
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and obviously when we do have power, if it's consolidated, you will not be involved.
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Well, you'll be involved as a mascot.
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Yeah, as a mascot.
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Yes.
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Excuse me, Anne, I would like you to verify real quick that the only thing the far right
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cares about is your gender, because you're not saying anything new, baby.
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That's pretty much what he's going for right there, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's kind of insulting.
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I mean, I hate Anne Coulter, but I don't think that she deserves that kind of thing from
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Alex.
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Whew!
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From Alex?
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No.
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Definitely not.
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So, Alex keeps bringing up like, why is Bush going to sign the assault weapons ban?
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You know, blah, blah, blah, Patriot Act 2.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Anne's like, he's only able to do so much.
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Right.
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I can only answer this question the same way so many times.
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We have...
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You can bring up other examples, and my answer will be the same.
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Yes.
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And it's getting annoying.
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What about that time that he went to that bar with a buddy who wasn't a friend of mine?
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That guy was a real asshole.
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Is he an asshole?
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Right.
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Anne is starting to get a little bit annoyed.
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Good.
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With Alex's style.
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Good.
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Why did he sign on to UNESCO?
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There's limits to how much the president can do.
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He's not Czar of the Universe.
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Anne, what about UNESCO?
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I mean...
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No, we're not going to keep doing this.
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So, you're not saying this is scripted like the liberals, are you?
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No, I'm saying this is the same question over and over again, and I'm going to keep saying
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the same answer over and over again.
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Yeah, there are a lot of things.
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Do you want to hear that answer again?
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You know, I could take a nap now and you can keep replaying it.
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A president can only focus on three issues.
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His three issues, terrorism, taxes, judiciary.
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He's focusing on those issues.
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It's up to us to persuade our fellow Americans, our senators, and representatives.
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I don't agree with what she's saying, but in terms of how she's responding, Anne is
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right.
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Yeah, that's about right.
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Anne is right.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Alex has just asked this one question of, if Bush is so great, why did he do this thing
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over and over again?
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And Anne has made her answer totally clear.
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And even, she's been fairly polite with Alex being kind of a dick, calling her a mascot
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because she's an intelligent conservative woman.
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Again, I hate Anne Coulter, but in conversation with Alex, she comes off like less of an asshole
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in her personally, and more of a person who actually knows how to convey her point.
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I want to talk for a second about UNESCO, though.
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The organization was founded in 1946, and the United States was a founding member.
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In 1984, during the Reagan administration, the US withdrew from UNESCO, and it's historically
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a fairly open question about whether or not that was an appropriate decision.
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There were some complaints of mismanagement by the then director general, so it might
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have been a totally, it might not have been a totally frivolous decision.
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But either way, in 1995, we'd seen a change in leadership at UNESCO, and a renewed interest
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in rejoining.
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President Clinton indicated that he wanted to rejoin at this point, but he was limited
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in his ability to do so by budgetary constraints.
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As he left office, he requested that Bush rejoin, which he did in late 2003.
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It's true that Bush was inclined to rejoin, but he honestly couldn't have done it on his
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own unilaterally.
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In order to join, funding had to be appropriated, which was done by an act of Congress.
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It wasn't the act of one person, because the action needed to be, you know, the action
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needed other things to make it happen.
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There were multiple parts.
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There were like, there's like more than one branch of government.
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Yeah.
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And it goes through, it goes through.
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And they do different things.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So the story of UNESCO as it relates to the United States is actually a bit of a bummer.
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Ron Paul tried to get the US out of it every year he was in the House, and each time it
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went nowhere.
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But then, in 2011, UNESCO allowed Palestine in as a member state, and that was a huge
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problem for the United States.
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At that point, we just decided to stop paying dues to UNESCO, and in 2013, they stripped
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the United States of voting rights.
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Then in 2017, Trump's State Department announced we were going to be withdrawn again, and when
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we left, we owed over $600 million in unpaid dues.
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I think the United States-
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It sounds like Trump.
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It's a great, great-
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We're cool.
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Great roommate for the rest of the world.
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Yeah.
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I think we're best bros.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The other thing is that Bush signing on to UNESCO isn't some kind of a single event that
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happened, entirely motivated by Bush himself.
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It's a piece of a larger picture that Alex just doesn't handle, he just refuses to deal
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with it.
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Yeah, and it's a really depressing picture, you know?
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It's a really dumb picture that it's entirely possible that Nancy Reagan's astrologist told
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Ronald fucking, I got soup for brains that we should get out of UNESCO, and that's all
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that you needed to do.
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Yeah, I understand why you're saying that, but just in the interest of total fairness,
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the arguments at that point in the 80s for getting out were more sensible than a lot
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of other decisions.
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For sure.
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For sure.
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But yeah, at this point, Ann is starting to get a little bit, I guess she's just realizing
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where she is.
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Yeah.
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And it's kind of like, oh, this isn't good.
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I thought I was going to be promoting my book.
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She had no idea who Alex is.
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Yeah.
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It's pretty clear.
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It's very obvious that she really thought this was going to be a boilerplate radio appearance
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just like the-
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An interview with a right-wing radio person about her book.
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The safest possible thing for Ann Coulter to do.
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Yeah, and now Alex decides, aha, she's annoyed.
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Got her.
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I'm going to taunt her.
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Now's a good time.
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Ann, you're right, you have replayed that a few times here for us, but okay, we can
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then get into the book.
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What about UNESCO?
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What about this?
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We could do lots of things, we could spend six hours doing this.
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Yeah, we could.
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Well, I think somebody needs to, because all I hear is worship of Bush and we're going
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to have a real conservative country and get back to what America is, if influential people
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like you and others-
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Okay, run against him.
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Well look, you have replayed that, I understand your answer there, I see where you're going
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with that, and okay, I understand what you're saying.
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Now, I don't think I've heard you get this hot on TV with the liberals, man, you're getting
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pretty upset here.
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I'm getting pretty bored.
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Damn!
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I am not going to say that I don't appreciate two monstrous children bickering, that's pretty
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fun.
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I mean, say what you like about Ann Coulter, she has a wit to her.
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She does.
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She has an ability to speak extemporaneously in a way that can sometimes... She seems
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like someone who's been in a debate.
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She got to her position of professional troll with the talent to become a professional douchebag.
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Yeah, and seeing it used against Alex, it softens it a little bit, but it's still just-
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It does make you feel like maybe there's a certain time to tap into being a dick.
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When the time is right, you should have the powers of douchebaggery under your belt.
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That rejoinder of like, I've never seen you this mad at liberals, I'm just bored, is like-
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Yeah, that's solid.
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That's a solid one.
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Exactly the poke you need to poke back at Alex.
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You're not going to break through that at the dinner table.
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Yeah.
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So we get to the Patriot Act II after this, and he was like, what about this?
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What about it?
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And, man, Ann just doesn't give a shit.
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Patriot Act II has secret arrest of citizens for no reason, liability protection to police
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and military to act domestically.
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I mean, this is stuff Bill Clinton tried to get passed in his omnibus crime bill and failed.
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Section 213 means they can break in your house without a warrant, take whatever they want,
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plant whatever they want in any criminal investigation, even if it's non-terrorism.
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So you can say that, well, you haven't read it, but then you've been looking for the problems
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in it.
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I'm begging you-
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No, I haven't read the portion that provides for secret arrest with no reason.
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I would be curious to see that.
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Okay, let me take it out.
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I'm sorry, I just don't believe it.
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Let me get it for you.
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That's Section 501 of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act that they said didn't exist.
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It's been introduced in the Senate, sponsored by the Democrats, as S-22, the Justice Domestic
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Security Enhancement Act.
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Would you like me to read you some sections?
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No.
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Okay.
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Love it.
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Would you like me to read it to you?
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No.
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No, I don't.
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So earlier in the interview when they were in a discussion about parts of the Patriot
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Act, Ann said that she hadn't read this.
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So I can actually totally see how Alex would have interpreted that as her saying that she
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hadn't read it at all.
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That kind of was, it would be a fair reading of what she'd said.
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Right.
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It is really fun, though, when she clarifies that she hadn't read what he's talking about
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and also doesn't care.
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We've talked about this a bit in the past, but there was no Patriot Act 2.
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The bill that Alex is referring to as Patriot Act 2 didn't pass.
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Also, there's no Section 501 in S-22, the Senate bill.
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The first section is 1101, so this citation that he's throwing out just isn't good.
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I understand that this was a proposed bill and it wasn't cool and it was a bit scary,
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but it's really counterproductive for Alex to embellish shit about it in order to take
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a shortcut to getting the audience invested.
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It didn't pass.
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It doesn't allow the stuff Alex is claiming it does, and by this point in July, it's been
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six months since any action had been taken on the bill.
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It was introduced and it was sent to committee.
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It's essentially a dead bill at this point in July, and Alex has ever reasoned to know
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that.
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Oh boy.
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So now we go to calls, because I think Alex realized, like, I'm not getting anywhere here.
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No.
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She's sniping at me because it's no good.
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Oh, she's kicking my ass.
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So I got to go.
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I got to get back up.
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Alrighty.
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Well, let's take some calls.
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Let's go ahead and talk to Bill in Pennsylvania.
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Bill, you're on the air with Ann Coulter.
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Go ahead.
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Yes, Alex.
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How you doing?
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Fine, sir.
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Hi, Ann.
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In all due respect, Ann, I can't help but drawing this analogy.
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Oftentimes, I go into a place of business and I inquire about purchasing something.
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So I go to a clerk or a salesperson, and I walk away in disparagement because I oftentimes
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know more than they do.
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And that seems to be the case here with Alex versus you.
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You write a book about the Patriot Act.
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Right.
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Well, but you cover all these issues, Ann.
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I disagree with his analysis of the Patriot Act.
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Pardon?
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I disagree with his analysis of the Patriot Act.
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You haven't read it.
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It has nothing to do with my book.
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Well, I know.
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But maybe these are issues that you talk about, evidently, on these talk shows.
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Maybe you should educate yourself.
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No, I don't.
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Yeah, I've heard you on a bunch of shows.
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Hold on.
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Ann, I've heard you on a bunch of shows say that it doesn't take liberties and the liberals
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are lying.
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It's not a liberal issue is what I'm saying.
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I mean, ma'am, you are in support of the president.
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No, I have said liberals are lying, claiming there's a civil liberties crisis in America
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right now.
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There is.
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When you say that, I think you're wrong, too.
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And I think you give the liberals powerful cannon fodder by it not being a conservative
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issue to demand that Bush not violate the Mueller-Riser constitution.
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Or Bill Clinton or anybody else.
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That caller's a real asshole.
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Yeah.
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The back and forth of it is no good, but at this point in the episode, like, Alex maybe
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was starting to win me back a little bit.
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Like Ann's shittiness is starting to show through a little more.
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Yeah.
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That's the Ann Coulter I remember, like, supporting the war, not being concerned about possible
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rights violations and what have you.
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Now, I'll grant that I don't believe Alex's principle is actually sincere here.
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There are plenty of instances of potentially rights violating things that Trump proposed
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or even put into place by executive order, and Alex had no problem with them.
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Even as someone I don't fully trust the sincerity of, I still find his position here more palatable
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and responsible than Ann's about, you know, like, not caring about, you know, violations
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of rights.
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Right.
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Right, right, right.
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And what have you.
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Yeah.
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She didn't.
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No.
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She doesn't.
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I think that her glibness on that I, you know, I strongly disagree with.
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Although I just, I think the way that Alex is interacting with this, like, she's on the
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phone, another person's on the phone, and the two of them are teaming up against the
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guest, I think is probably poor form.
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Just that, that, fuck, it was, it's like a sports talk show.
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That's what it's really sounding like, is somebody calling into the goddamn strength
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coach for the Philadelphia Eagles and being like, why didn't you run the 45 at the, yeah,
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it's that bullshit.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And the other thing that I think is also in terms of, like, the Alex v. Ann thing, where
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I kind of side more with Alex is that Ann is very clear that she supports the war on
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terror.
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Of course.
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You support the so-called administration's war on terrorism, correct?
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Yes.
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She's written the chaperone on it, yeah.
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Okay, well, if that's the case, then I would suggest maybe you should research this very
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critical legislation that you don't seem to know anything about.
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Give me an example of someone whose civil rights have been violated.
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We have American citizens being taken to Camp X-Ray.
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The White House admits people have been, quote, tortured to death at Bagram air base.
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Tortured to death.
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That's preposterous.
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What are you talking about?
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Wow.
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That's admitted by the White House.
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Two weeks ago, they said they won't, quote, allow that to happen anymore.
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That is absurd.
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No, no, the government has not tortured anyone to death.
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Wow.
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They've been all over the news advocating it.
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It's absolutely absurd.
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They admitted it.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah.
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The White House?
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Yes.
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The CIA section chief of the Middle East.
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This is insane.
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And the Washington Post said that they're taking him.
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The government has not tortured anyone to death.
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See, now you even fell for the sleight of hand that Alex did there.
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So the problem with this conversation and how it's been carried out is very clear here.
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These two people are talking about things so imprecisely that a pretty decent argument
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can be made that they're both right and they're also both correct in saying the other is wrong.
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Up to this point, the discussion has been about the Patriot Act and Patriot Act 2, and
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it's centered entirely around the notion of the infringement of American citizens' rights.
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So when Anne asks for an example of that, it's fair to assume that she's looking for
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an example of a citizen of the United States.
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And even she's clear in her question that she's talking about the violation of civil
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rights.
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Right.
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Alex follows this up by saying that U.S. citizens were taken to Camp X-Ray, which continues
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the theme of discussing U.S. citizens.
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He then jumps to torture at Bagram Internment Facility, which really complicates things
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because now the conversation is incoherent.
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Anne has every reason to think that they're still talking about U.S. citizens and their
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rights possibly being violated, so she's absolutely correct that the U.S. didn't torture any U.S.
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citizens to death at Bagram.
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Simultaneously, Alex is so used to jumping all over the place and not staying on topic
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that he probably doesn't even realize that he's now shifted over to talking about non-U.S.
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citizens in a discussion about civil rights.
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And he's correct!
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In December 2002, our soldiers killed two citizens of Afghanistan at Bagram, and they
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had been tortured.
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Both Alex and Anne will probably leave the exchange thinking the other is completely
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insane and wrong, and Alex will take this as proof that she's a liar who rejects proven
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reality.
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But it's actually just a case of people not being precise with what they're talking about,
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and ultimately, in this specific exchange, Alex is far more guilty of making this conversation
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nonsensical.
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It's hard to tell if that's a debate strategy or if his mind just doesn't have the normal
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guardrails that most people have, but either way, the result is the same.
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Also, Camp X-Ray is a part of Guantanamo Bay.
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A man named Yasser Hamdi was captured in Afghanistan and declared an enemy combatant.
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He was raised in Saudi Arabia, but he was born in Louisiana, so the government claimed
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that when they held him in Camp X-Ray, they didn't know that he was a U.S. citizen.
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Once it was known that he was a citizen, he was sent to a jail in the United States.
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According to findings in a Supreme Court opinion from his case against Donald Rumsfeld, he
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was taken to Guantanamo in January 2002, and it became clear that he was a citizen in April
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2002, and he was sent to Norfolk, Virginia.
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According to the information that they have, they didn't know he was a citizen, and when
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they did find out, they did not allow him to be held at Camp X-Ray.
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Whatever you want.
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To be clear, I'm not saying that any of this is okay.
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It's just not relevant to the point Alex is trying to make.
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I would say I'm opposed to people being taken to Guantanamo, U.S. citizen or not, and that
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I don't think that this case is in any way indicates a desire on the part of our government
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to put U.S. citizens in camps or establish that precedent.
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I just think it's all nonsensical.
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I think the argument they're having is meaningless.
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Right.
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The point here is that because Anne and Alex have such incompatible communication styles,
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it's almost impossible for them to actually have a conversation that means anything, and
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this exchange really illustrates it.
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They're always talking about two different things.
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But notice how you responded to their nonsensical and coherent conversation.
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You prioritized the fact that people were tortured, because that is a more important
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issue realistically speaking.
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Oh, sure.
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You sided with Alex.
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You were responding to Anne Coulter saying that no one was tortured to death as like,
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she's wrong.
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Oh, no.
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I was responding to Anne Coulter saying, find me someone whose civil rights were violated,
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because in my head, it's like, well, listen, that doesn't prove anything towards any argument.
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But in America, if you want to find somebody who's civil rights, you can find an example.
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But she meant specifically as a result of the Patriot Act.
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And whether or not you could produce that person, Alex can't.
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No, absolutely not.
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It's clear that he can't.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's just so stupid.
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That was where it started being just like, what are we doing?
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Why are you asking me for an example?
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Yeah.
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I agree with you.
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I think it's stupid, but it's also the game that Alex is playing.
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He's making a claim.
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He's not used to people challenging his claims.
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His claim is challenged.
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He can't defend it.
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He can't back it up at all.
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That's fascinating.
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Second, I don't believe you at all.
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I think that you did not see the sleight of hand from US citizen to people being tortured.
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Oh, yeah.
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No, I didn't see that.
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I think it's really easy to miss if you're not paying attention.
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You could very easily get that.
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And when he's saying that people were tortured, you could be like, you'd forget that the conversation
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was centered around US citizens.
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Right.
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No.
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And I understand that that is an important thing for a conversation that is trying to
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go somewhere is to maintain a...
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If we're talking about US citizens, then we can only have a point if we're both talking
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about the same thing.
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If the question I asked you was based on the rights of US citizens and you respond with
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something about other people who aren't US citizens, then what are we doing?
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No, of course.
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It's a pointless conversation.
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But I just don't care about US citizens versus non-citizens.
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I think that's ridiculous.
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I am 100% for open borders.
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I think I was trying to make that point that I don't care about the distinction, but yeah,
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it's just interesting to me to see the path that this goes and how from an external perspective,
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really looking at it, you can see, all right, here's where this is going off track.
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And neither of them really recognize the other one, except Anne kind of does a little bit
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later.
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Yeah.
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At this point in the conversation, they just are butting heads about completely...
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They're having different conversations with each other.
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It does feel like Alex is trying to find a weak point.
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And if he can find a weak point, then he's going to hammer it home and never speak about
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anything else again.
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So we're just getting a lot of little pokes here and there.
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And Anne tries to stay on topic because I think she's smart enough to recognize, what
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are we talking about?
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Or type in, White House admits that Taliban fighters were tortured to death at Bagram
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Air Base.
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I mean, there's hundreds of articles, it's admitted.
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We're talking about civil rights violations.
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What do you mean they've had the pundits...
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They switched it over to Bagram.
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Hold on.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And they said they'd fly them to Egypt and to Jordan for third parties to torture them.
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We're talking about Americans in this country.
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I asked for a civil rights violation in this country.
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Well, yeah.
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There's citizens who've been taken...
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About something that happened.
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They're going to be tried before a military trial...
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It was not.
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Hold on.
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Let me answer your question.
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Masali and others, they've got to dig the articles out right now.
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All these... there's a bunch of citizens, British citizens, Australian Americans, being
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taken to Camp X-ray.
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They're building an execution chamber.
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Paul Wolfowitz will appoint the three military judges that will try them without juries.
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They can't face their accusers.
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It's a kangaroo court.
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Right.
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And we're talking about civil rights violations in this country.
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Yeah.
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Enemy combatant designations of American citizens.
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No.
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That is a wartime crime.
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Yes.
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That may have happened.
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Are you denouncing the entire U.S. military over this?
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I don't know.
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I think it's horrible that they're huffing depleted uranium, and I think it's horrible
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they got hit by VX and sarin according to hundreds of publications and universities,
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University of Texas at Dallas, and I think it's horrible they weren't given treatment
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for that.
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I do support the troops.
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Yes.
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I think the anthrax shot was very dangerous, and they finally suspended it.
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I mean, yeah, I do support the troops, but I don't let people say, do you support the
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troops?
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Well, you've got to support what I say, or you don't support them.
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Let's talk...
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Okay.
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But we're talking about Ashcroft and civil rights in this country.
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Oh, is that what we were talking about?
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Just so you know, they are now saying that they will use it for banking, for everything,
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for all crimes.
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An article in the Washington Times titled- So you have no example of anyone's civil rights
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being violated- All over the place they're using the Patriot
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Act.
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In the history of the world- Ann, Ann, you said you haven't read the
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Patriot Act, and I'm telling you- No, I said I read it, I said I hadn't read
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the part about how innocent Americans can be arrested secretly on the basis of no evidence.
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I believe I'm quoting you on that.
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Yes, it actually says that.
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I missed that provision.
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Section 501.
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Which says what?
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Tied into Section 802.
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You don't think Americans can be arrested for no reason in secret proceedings?
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Yes, it says that they don't even need to think a crime's been committed, that you can
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be snatched off the street, secretly and held.
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Um, that's not in the Patriot Act.
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Yes, Patriot Act 2, yes it is.
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Oh boy.
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So what you see here is such a great example of how Alex can't answer any questions or
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dig deeper into any of these narratives and talking points, even at this point in his
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career, even in 2003.
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Ann has asked him for an example of someone who had their rights violated because of the
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Patriot Act, and he's incapable of coming up with a single example.
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Whether or not there are people who fit that description, if Alex can't come up with something
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that defends his claim, he's lost the point in terms of the conversation, and has no reason
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to take seriously his claim.
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No one has ever really challenged him on this point before, especially on the show, so Alex
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is unprepared to do anything other than what he always does on the show, which is to bounce
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all over the place.
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The conversation of civil rights swings to the use of torture against foreign combatants,
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and once Ann realizes that this switch has happened, she tries to get back on track and
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remind Alex that they're talking about US citizens' civil rights.
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Alex tries to bring up various countries' citizens being designated as enemy combatants,
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which again, agree with it or not, Ann has a perfectly sensible response to, in that,
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you know, aiding the enemy is a wartime crime.
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My point is not about which side here I agree with.
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It's about who's actually making coherent sense and trying to stick to the point, and
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that person is undoubtedly Ann Coulter.
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Unfortunately.
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Unfortunately indeed.
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Unfortunately.
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The use of torture against foreign combatants is disgusting and should never be acceptable,
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but it doesn't intersect with the civil rights concerns that Alex is bringing up, so it's
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really irrelevant to the conversation.
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Citizens of other countries being designated enemy combatants also doesn't really have
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anything to do with the point, but the notion that US citizens are being taken to Camp X-Ray
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is partially relevant.
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There's only one example that could possibly, Alex could possibly have about this, which
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is Yasser Hamdi, who at this point had already been transferred to a US prison once it was
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known he was a citizen.
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At this point, the only other citizen who had been declared an enemy combatant was Jose
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Padilla, who was sentenced for planning to manufacture a radiological bomb and held at
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a military prison in South Carolina.
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Both of these instances are interesting and a concern to civil liberties organizations,
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but neither of them were made possible by the Patriot Act.
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This really has much more to do with the authorization for use of military force, which was signed
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on September 18th, 2001, which itself was highly reliant on a 1942 Supreme Court ruling,
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Ex Parte Quirin, a case regarding the use of military tribunals for eight captured German
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saboteurs.
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Instead of dealing with some of these subtleties, Alex just points a finger at the Patriot Act
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because that's something that's easy to hang your hat on.
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It's a good shorthand, and being opposed to it gives him some kind of a credibility in
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this left and right wing civil libertarian liberties community.
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Strictly speaking though, Ann is still right, and if Alex wants to take issue with the designation
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of people as enemy combatants, that essentially requires a fundamental opposition to the way
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that the US military operates.
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Alex doesn't want to deal with that, so instead he jumps to another one of his preloaded talking
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points about what it means to support the troops.
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Ann wasn't talking about supporting the troops or not.
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That's a false point that Alex is responding to because he has that pre-scripted rant about
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how he's the one who supports the troops, and by throwing that out he can pretend to
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have some kind of a moral high ground.
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This is an incredibly pointless conversation they're having, and Alex is losing.
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Losing!
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Yeah, the point where she said, then do you fundamentally disagree with how the US military
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works?
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Then the answer you have to give is yes.
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Should have been yes.
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Yes, because then you can continue a conversation.
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If you say, no, I still want them to do everything and I support the troops, then you're, then
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what, then stop talking.
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Yeah, that's just shifting the conversation in order to score a point.
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Absolutely.
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So, we had another caller.
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These callers suck.
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Could Ms. Coulter please talk about the morality of a president that attends Bohemian Grove?
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Oh yeah!
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Bush admits he goes to the Grove in Skull and Bones, and these are not Christian organizations.
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Are you aware of those, Ann?
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Yeah, vaguely, men get dressed up in women's clothes and sing songs.
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Well, according to the Washington Times, they bus in male prostitutes.
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That is absurd.
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That means $10,000.
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Hold on!
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Hold on!
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Hold on, John!
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You know, I'm not a betting man, but Ann, I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is.
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George Bush attends functions with male prostitutes.
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Sacramento Bee, Associated Press, Parade Magazine, Spy Magazine, I have all the news articles.
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Whatever goes on at the Grove, the sources that Alex is citing don't back up his claim
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that gay sex workers are carted in to work for the group members.
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There's no women around, and articles like the ones Alex references do discuss the vague
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homoeroticism that hangs in the air, including but not limited to men playing women very
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lewdly in stage performances and the audience hooting and hollering.
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Of course.
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The stories that Alex is referencing do discuss prostitution, but the story doesn't match
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what he's saying.
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Essentially, there is a nearby city to the Bohemian Grove called Monte Rio, and there's
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a bar there that was notorious for being a place where Bohemian Club members could slip
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away at night to order a sex worker.
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According to a 1975 book by G. William Demoff, this is what the group members referred to
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as river jumping.
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This Washington Times article that Alex is referring to is from 1989, and it doesn't
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actually have to do with Bohemian Grove at all.
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It has to do with the fear that the Soviet Union was using male sex workers to ensnare
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politicians.
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Not great.
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Quote, we have known for many, many years that there is a department of the KGB whose
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job it is to prey on sexual deviance, said retired Lieutenant General Daniel Graham,
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former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
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Because closet homosexuals in government service can easily be turned through blackmail for
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espionage purposes, General Graham said, quote, we have always in intelligence tried very
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hard not to be given classified information to known homosexuals.
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Boy, could have gone the other direction.
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You know, you could have just been like, it's OK to be gay.
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Wow, that's interesting.
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Yeah.
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A totally cool source that is here, and it actually doesn't prove anything about Bohemian
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Grove.
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No.
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In 2004, which is after this episode was recorded, Prison Planet reposted a New York Post article
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about how there was a former gay porn star named Chad Savage who worked as a valet at
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the Grove, which is meant to imply that I guess he was secretly also a sex worker for
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the powerful man there.
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This is a bit of a leap and definitely not substantiated by the reporting.
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The Grove spokesperson Sam Singer said, quote, the club doesn't care about his past.
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It's totally possible that he was someone who worked in the service industry and also
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in porno.
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It's not like sex work always pays everyone's bills.
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People also sometimes have to have a second revenue stream.
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Yeah.
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There's quite no evidence of the claim that Alex is making.
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So Anne might be able to win $10,000 here if you take Alex up on it.
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And interestingly, if you do try to find claims of like gay prostitutes being taken into Bohemian
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Grove, so many of the sources just link back to Alex.
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Of course.
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So many of them.
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Of course.
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Of course.
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It's really tough to try and find like, where is this coming from, if not from an Infowars
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article.
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It's very weird.
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But I do think that it is enjoyable to see a theoretically conservative luminary being
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peppered with the questions of people who actually follow them.
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And that's great.
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And will become a problem for them years down the line.
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Oh yeah.
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So good.
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It's always great whenever you have somebody who's like a screeching talking head on TV
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actually confronted with what they've created.
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Yeah.
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And meet your demise years from now.
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Exactly.
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It's these people.
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Yup.
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And this is where Ann is like, Oh my God, I can't believe I'm talking to you weirdos.
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John in Tennessee, you're on the air with Ann Coulter.
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Go ahead.
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Yes.
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Isn't the title of your new book, a propaganda attempt to divert attention from the treason
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of Prescott Bush's criminal convictions farming Adolf Hitler during World War II to divert
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attention from Sir Bush Jr.'s night of the British Empire's connection to the assassination
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of Ronald Reagan and Rand Conklin on the terrorism.
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Ma'am, I have the Pittsburgh and New York news articles from 42 when Prescott was arrested
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or are you saying that didn't happen?
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I'm saying this is absolutely nutty and you ought to get back to concentrating on the
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black helicopters.
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Okay.
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Oh, which they now admit are surveilling the country with the drones according to the Houston
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Chronicle and Senator Warner.
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You mean those?
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Oh boy.
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So I kind of feel like Ann is handling this pretty well and I would definitely listen
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to a show where Alex and Ann were forced to take calls together.
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Oh, it'd be great.
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It would be so much fun as punishment for both of them as long as proceeds from the
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show went to a charity that both of them didn't support.
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Yes, they can't have anything to do with the money.
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Prescott Bush was not criminally convicted like this caller is saying and like Alex is
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saying.
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He was on the board of a couple of companies that did business with a man named Fritz Thiessen
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who was an industrialist in Germany and had been a member of the Nazi party.
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Doing business with Thiessen was totally not illegal until the end of 1941 when the US
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entered World War II since we were technically neutral up to that point.
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In 1942 the assets of these companies were seized and by that point Thiessen had had
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a falling out with Hitler and was no longer a supporter of the Nazi party.
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In fact, Thiessen had supported the rise of Hitler and the Nazis financially and materially
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but had a strong break in 1939 when Germany decided to invade Poland.
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Oh, I thought it was like Hitler slept with his girlfriend or something.
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No.
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Okay.
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His private letters were published in Life magazine.
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From the article, quote, in publishing the papers leading to my break with Adolf Hitler
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I wish to show that the German nation, which elected Hitler its leader because of his professed
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opposition to communism, is innocent in the developments that turn National Socialism
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into its opposite.
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In his letters he was pretty clearly opposed to the mistreatment of Jewish Germans.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But when on November 9th, 1938 the Jews were robbed and tortured in the most cowardly and
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most brutal manner and their synagogues destroyed all over Germany I protested once more.
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As an outward expression of my repugnance I resigned my position of state counselor.
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All my protests obtained no reply and no remedy.
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Essentially it's a pretty messy situation.
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Materially this guy and by extension the US folks like Prescott Bush who did business
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with him had a direct impact in the rise of the Nazi party.
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At the same time looking at their precise actions and what they did it's kind of different
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than if you were to look at someone like Henry Ford.
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You know?
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Sure.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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All these people have a certain amount of historical blame but it's not always totally
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cut and dry.
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And make no mistake I'm not saying that Thiessen or Bush had great intentions.
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They would have been happy to create an oppressive corporate state where labor rights were non-existent.
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All of these characters suck in their own ways but Alex has to call Bush a Nazi for
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this because he can't unpack things to recognize that the real motivating factor for his involvement
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with Thiessen was their shared opposition to communism which Alex agrees with.
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If he has to unpack this and talk about Thiessen's history which only opens Alex up to having
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to discuss how the political machine he'd supported to defeat communism grew out of
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control into outright fascism.
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Yeah.
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And that's probably not something Alex wants to get into.
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I am loving, loving the irony.
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The irony of a woman who is coming on this show to sell me a book about how great McCarthy
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was is now telling other people this is the nuttiest thing she's ever heard.
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There is, it is way less nutty to call Prescott Bush a Nazi than it is to say McCarthy was
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a good guy.
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Yeah I guess it's debatable.
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Yeah.
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So I think though that one of the things you'll notice if you listen to this whole thing is
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that they ultimately just, they're both wrong pretty consistently and is at least structurally
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making points.
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Right.
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So she's right in that sense.
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Right.
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But they're wrong about so much but they both think that they're right.
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We're at war right now, this is no time to be looking for black helicopters.
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Okay let's put John on hold.
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I think we ought to be concerned about finding these weapons of destruction before they end
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up in New York rather than running off on these...
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You are, hey, you are a neocon and you're out there shelling for the Trojan horse that
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is George Bush who's a gun grabber, UN promoter, open borders.
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I mean the evidence, you know, the fruits on the tree, Ann, and we've been trying to
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be nice to you and you've just denied things that are all over the mainstream news, many
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of them for 50 years, and you can't face up to the corruption of the Republican party
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that's growing the size of the government.
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We're conservatives, we're not LaRouche-ites over here, okay?
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I think you are.
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I think you are.
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I think you are too.
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I believe you are LaRouche-ites, yes.
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Yeah, so I mean they're both wrong.
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Alex thinks he's made a point, he thinks that he's actually demonstrated that Ann is somehow
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disconnected from reality, and Ann is wrong because she's supporting these weapons of
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mass destruction.
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Insane.
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Her points are wrong.
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These people are, it's amazing, it is like two people arguing over how the KKK should
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commit a genocide, you know, like, no, no, no, no, you're wrong, we should use a, like,
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what are you guys doing?
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It is pretty strange.
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Yeah.
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So they go to break, and Alex comes back, and this is just pathetic.
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I don't know about you, but Bush had better not sign that assault weapons ban, better
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not call for open borders, I think that's top issues.
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So perfect that it's the Pink Panther theme.
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Yeah.
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Because both of those things Bush didn't do.
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Oh, man.
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He's Clouseau with conspiracies.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:56.439)
It's just, it's nonsense.
Unknown Speaker (01:24:59.520)
So Alex starts getting into, like, 9-11.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:01.960)
Sure.
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False flag stuff.
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Like Nero.
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Retreating to comfortable territory.
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Exactly.
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Ann is a little confused.
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Uh-oh.
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Why is, according to the International Herald Tribune, why does the judge's department
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have their people standing over witnesses in the 9-1-1 investigation and, quote, intimidating
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them?
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By standing there and scowling at them?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:22.039)
Well, you're not, yeah, private meetings.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:24.039)
They're apparently easily intimidated, that's why they're hijacking planes and flying them
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into buildings.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:29.640)
Oh, really?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:30.640)
Hey, why were some of those hijackers trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station, according
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to MSNBC?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:34.600)
What?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:35.600)
Now you're saying we trained the hijackers?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:40.479)
What is this now?
Unknown Speaker (01:25:41.479)
Yeah, the military industrial complex, according to Operation Northwoods, planned to carry
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out 9-1-1 style attacks.
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Baltimore Sun, ABC Nightly News.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:49.920)
I don't know if you've heard of them.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:52.199)
This year's just getting nuttier and nuttier.
Unknown Speaker (01:25:55.199)
Well, it's like the USS Liberty, which they now admit we've had Admiral Moore on, former
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chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, he admits the government tried to sink the ship to blame
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it on Egypt.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:03.840)
Oh, that's Admiral Moore, though.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:04.840)
No, in fact, I think George Bush was considering having Mohammed Atta in a highly placed position
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in the federal government.
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Not as good.
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And he was almost one of the hijackers.
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Did you know that?
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But he got away at the last minute.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:18.760)
Well, neither of the hijackers are still alive, and unfortunately for you, Ann, our audience
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is educated and aware of what you're up to.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:26.680)
This whole...
Unknown Speaker (01:26:27.680)
What am I up to?
Unknown Speaker (01:26:28.680)
I'm going to talk about a book, and I'm getting a bunch of nuttheories thrown at me.
Unknown Speaker (01:26:34.279)
Yeah, I came here to talk about how great and correct McCarthy was, and now I'm here
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all these nutty conspiracy theories.
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Listen, Dick, I came here to sell a book full of nutty theories.
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I didn't come here to listen to your nutty theories.
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Isn't that exactly what you say?
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Basically.
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I'm here to lie my way.
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But it's still delightful.
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There's something about this.
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I think part of it is because it's in the past, and it can't hurt us more than it already
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has.
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Right, right, right.
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Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And so it's kind of fun to see her be annoyed, and also be correct in her annoyance.
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A little.
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And also wrong.
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About everything.
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There's just layers.
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It is nice to see these two dum-dums really just get to the heart of why they're incompatible,
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and why the right-wing grift is destined to eat itself alive.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:28.039)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:29.039)
Is because I'm selling my bullshit, and I don't want to listen to your bullshit.
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And it's like, well, yeah, Alex is selling his bullshit, and he doesn't want to listen
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to your bullshit.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:40.800)
Yeah, especially when your bullshit is fairly contradictory.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:43.680)
Yeah, and you're both fucking stupid.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:46.539)
There's that.
Unknown Speaker (01:27:47.539)
So it's just a going back and forth of people, and Ann Coulter gets to act like she's laughing
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at all of this shit, because it sounds more openly lunatic than what she's selling you,
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which is the same lunacy wrapped up in better words.
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But she's got a great life of privilege to get to after the phone call.
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That's true.
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She'll go and meet up with a friend, have a cocktail, and talk about, I was on the phone
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with this lunatic.
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She's dicks.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:13.760)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:14.760)
Yep.
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So Alex has one last call for Ann, and, spoiler alert, she does not get a chance to answer,
Unknown Speaker (01:28:21.399)
and then Alex treats her like a real pile of garbage to end the show.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:26.479)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:27.479)
I mean, look, it's rude, but also kind of funny.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:30.840)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:31.840)
Clint in Missouri, last caller for Ann Coulter, go ahead.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:36.319)
Go ahead, Clint.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:37.319)
Okay.
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Clint's gone.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:39.319)
Go ahead, Clint.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:40.319)
Yeah, I just wanted to say that Ann had mentioned that Bush has to do certain things to get
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reelected.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:48.039)
I think a lot of our perspectives are he should be more principled.
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President's duty is not getting elected.
Unknown Speaker (01:28:58.239)
There's more important things, like preserving our Constitution, and right now, the majority
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of Americans are more than willing to give away our freedoms for quote, unquote, safety,
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and I just don't think that's in the beliefs of our founders.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:13.079)
Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:14.079)
Thank you, Clint.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:15.079)
Thank you, Clint.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:16.079)
Ann Coulter, we really appreciate you coming on the show, and we hope you'll talk more
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about the Neocons, gun grabbing, open borders, and blocking Dan Burton's committee, and signing
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on to UNESCO, and signing campaign finance reform, restricting the First Amendment.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:28.800)
You think that might be a good idea, Ann?
Unknown Speaker (01:29:31.000)
The next candidate, Lyndon LaRouche Luck, in the next election.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:34.079)
Okay.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:35.079)
Hey, have fun being a Neocon Trojan horse, Ann.
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Have fun being their little poster child, okay?
Unknown Speaker (01:29:40.680)
Hopefully, you and your buddies should keep everybody in the dark long enough to get your
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New World Order.
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We know that's what it's all about.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:46.199)
I'm out of time, folks.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:47.760)
You want to support this broadcast, don't buy her mindless book of just stuff that doesn't
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matter anymore, little side issues.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:55.560)
Yes.
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Expose the whole system, get my videos.
Unknown Speaker (01:29:59.239)
Pretty good.
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Pretty sweet.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:01.239)
That's good stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:02.239)
That's good stuff.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:03.239)
In that clip, I mean, there's three things that are amazing.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:06.479)
First is the complete, you can't answer the question.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:10.159)
Nope.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:11.159)
That's supposed to be the last question for Ann.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:12.600)
Second, Ann jumping in with the, I wish your candidate, Lyndon LaRouche, the best of luck
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in the next election.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:19.680)
That's a nice outro.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:20.680)
That's not bad.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:21.680)
That's not bad.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:22.680)
And then, you want to- Don't buy her fucking book.
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Don't buy that mindless book.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:25.479)
Don't buy that shit drivel.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:28.359)
Don't buy this lady lying to you about McCarthy.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:31.159)
I think that Alex wanted that don't buy her book to be way more earned than it was.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:38.319)
That was really a- It sounded petulant.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:40.319)
And a parting, yeah, it sounded really, really childish.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:43.640)
Like it's just, it's pretty funny though.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:49.159)
I appreciate- I think, I'm sorry.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:51.800)
No, no, no, go for it.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:53.119)
I think that this is a get for Alex at this point.
Unknown Speaker (01:30:57.880)
In 2003, Ann Coulter coming on his show is a big deal.
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Huge.
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I think he handled this poorly.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:04.520)
I think that Ann Coulter doesn't give a shit about who he is, so it might not matter.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:09.159)
But this kind of behavior would definitely be like, if she cared, she has access to all
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sorts of very famous people that could be guests on Alex's show and now will not be.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:21.159)
No.
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Because the premise of the interview was supposed to be to promote her book.
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And instead he just said a bunch of dumb shit to her, annoyed her, and then at the end said
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don't buy her book.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:32.319)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:33.319)
It's kind of not how you treat a guest.
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I love both of them feeling bad about this.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:39.859)
I think she felt great.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:41.159)
I don't think she did.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:42.439)
I think at the end she got a good snippy line in.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:46.520)
I think she got a good line in.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:48.119)
Yeah, then she's going to get a high ball and have a great time.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:50.960)
I'm telling you.
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Have a nice evening.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:52.960)
I'm telling you, I think she walked away from this thinking, I don't like what happened.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:57.479)
I like her feeling like that.
Unknown Speaker (01:31:58.720)
I'm sure she isn't thrilled.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:00.920)
Yes.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:01.920)
But I don't know if it matters.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:02.920)
I don't think it matters to her.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:04.279)
No, it doesn't matter to anybody who's super rich.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:06.359)
No, but I think Alex probably came away from this much more pissed off than she did.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:10.359)
Oh yeah, totally.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:11.359)
Again, I like that too.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:12.439)
I think he was actually mad.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:14.720)
She was a little bit annoyed and playing around with it.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:17.680)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:18.680)
I do think the laughing and being like, this black helicopter shit.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:23.180)
For sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:24.180)
You guys like, this is LaRouche nonsense.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:25.899)
For sure, for sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:26.899)
There was actually an amusement on her part like, I have accidentally stumbled into this
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alternate universe full of complete weirdos who are calling and asking me about prostitutes
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at Bohemian Grove.
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I am amazed, amazed at people who will just agree to go on a show.
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Yeah.
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Just with no knowledge, don't know who that person is.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:49.159)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:50.159)
Yeah.
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It is strange.
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Bananas.
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I would predict that this is maybe one of the last high profile interviews he gets for
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a while.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:57.199)
I would say so.
Unknown Speaker (01:32:58.199)
Because it does not, it's not a good marketing tool for like, hey, come talk to me.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:03.760)
Right.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:04.760)
I will treat you well.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:05.760)
I know in 2003 or 4 they didn't have group texts yet.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:10.399)
But I'm sure she could still get on the phone pretty quick with a lot of people.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:14.560)
So at least in a day there's hundreds of people who aren't going on Alex's show.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:19.399)
Oh, it's possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:20.399)
But like I said, I think that she probably just got done with it and maybe wanted to
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tell a friend.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:24.720)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:25.720)
She's funny.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:26.720)
As opposed to like, I can't imagine that she thinks he's relevant.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:30.079)
No, that's true.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:31.479)
Like if you have this kind of an interaction with somebody, first of all you know that
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they aren't behaving as a gracious host.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:38.720)
Sure.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:39.720)
So probably you're like, this is an unprofessional asshole doing a radio show.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:43.239)
True.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:44.239)
They can't be that successful.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:45.239)
Possible.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:46.239)
And then you hear the ideas that are being expressed and you're like, this is fringe
Unknown Speaker (01:33:50.359)
nonsense.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:51.359)
Ugh.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:52.359)
There's maybe, hey, maybe I gotta talk to my agent.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:54.239)
They fuck me.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:55.239)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:56.239)
It must be.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:57.239)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:58.239)
Oh boy.
Unknown Speaker (01:33:59.239)
Anyway, I enjoyed this a lot.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:00.359)
I was really looking forward to this episode because of the like the tease of I got a big
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slimy Neocon and then it being Ann Coulter and it going so poorly.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:10.560)
So bad.
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Just off the rails.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:12.560)
What fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:13.560)
That's great.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:14.560)
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:15.560)
That's just great stuff.
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Good clean fun.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:17.560)
Absolutely.
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And it's from 2003.
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That's the best.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:20.560)
So we'll be back.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:21.560)
But until then, we have a website.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:22.560)
We do.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:23.560)
It's knowledgefight.com.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:24.560)
We are on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:25.560)
We are on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:26.560)
It's at knowledgefight.com.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:27.560)
Now go to bed, Jordan.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:28.560)
Yep.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:29.560)
We'll be back.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:30.560)
But until then, I'm Neo.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:31.560)
I'm Leo.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:32.560)
I'm DZX Clark.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:33.560)
I'm Daryl Rundis.
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And now here comes the sex robot.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:35.560)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:36.560)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:37.560)
Thanks for holding.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:38.560)
Hello Alex.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:39.560)
I'm a first time caller.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:40.560)
I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (01:34:41.560)
I love your work.
