Transcript/341: September 5, 2019
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N-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-knowledge fight.
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Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.
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Knowledgefight.com.
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It's time to pray.
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I have great respect for knowledge fight.
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Knowledge fight.
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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.
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Knowledge fight.
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Dan and Jordan.
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Knowledge fight.
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Rettler, Rettler, Rettler.
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Need, I need money.
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Rettler, Rettler, Rettler.
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Andy in Kansas.
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Andy in Kansas.
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Stop it.
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Andy in Kansas.
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Andy in Kansas.
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Andy in Kansas.
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It's time to pray.
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Andy in Kansas.
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You're on the air.
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Thanks for holding.
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Hello, Alex.
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I'm a 16-pounder.
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I'm a huge fan.
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I love your work.
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Knowledgefight.
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N-n-n-n-n-knowledgefight.com.
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I love you.
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Hey, everybody.
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Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
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I'm Dan.
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I'm Jordan.
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We're a couple dudes.
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I like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
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Indeed, we are Dan.
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Jordan.
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Dan.
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Jordan.
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What is the longest you've ever waited for a restaurant?
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Or a bar?
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Do you remember when we were in Austin and there was that barbecue place that was like
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a four-hour wait?
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Yeah, the line that goes around people get out there and camp out every day.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I was thinking about that and it must be incredible.
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Mm-hmm.
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It must be incredible.
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It is.
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I would never wait four hours for it.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Well, I mean, you could probably call like a week ahead for catering and then just forego
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the line that's just a highly in-demand barbecue place.
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Everyone loves it.
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I don't know.
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I can't think of anything that really sticks out in my head because I don't go in for
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that at all.
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Period.
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Not really.
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No waiting at all.
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I'd rather get something that's less good.
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Right, right.
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I know that there have been times when I've waited before because I have vague flashes
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of memories of those disks they give you that light up whenever it's too hot.
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Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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The Applebee's.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I know that that's happened, but I can't really think of many instances where it has.
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Yeah.
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Anytime it's more than like a 10-minute, 15-minute wait, I have no time for it.
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15 minutes is your top.
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Probably, but that doesn't seem that crazy to me.
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Yeah.
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Because if I went to, I don't know, I went to some takeout place and I hadn't called
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ahead, if I just show up and I'm like, I want this order, I still might take 10 minutes
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with them to make my food and give it to me.
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Yeah, for sure.
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So I don't know.
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It's not too bad.
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10, 15 minutes seems reasonable.
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Yeah, I wouldn't wait an hour though, that's for sure.
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Have an hour, get out of here.
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I think I've only ever waited for reservations for an hour.
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Like, that's the longest I've ever done so.
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And that's because I wasn't in control.
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You know, it was like a family gathering.
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Sure.
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And once three people are like, we're waiting, you're like, ah, shit.
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Well, I don't like food that much too.
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Yeah.
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So like waiting for a restaurant is absolutely not appealing to me.
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I was trying to think if I've waited in line for movie tickets.
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Oh, there's no way you've waited in line.
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Especially because since I was like 16, 17, when I was younger, I worked at a movie theater
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and I just look at the people waiting for tickets and scoff at them.
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That's where all queuing was ruined for you in the first place.
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And then like I grew up in Columbia, Missouri when I was like of an age where I had like
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sort of autonomy over decisions and like not a ton of bands come to Columbia.
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So waiting for tickets wasn't really ever that huge a thing for me in that city either.
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I bet it could have been if I had like more obscure tastes, but no, I don't know.
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You just don't wait for shit.
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You don't queue in a line.
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Not too much.
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I'd rather get to get down to it.
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Yeah.
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Has SNL put out a bad sketch about QAnon now where they spell it like a line and then it's
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like, I don't know who's waiting in a line.
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And then it involves like the Star Trek character or the Bond.
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Oh, for sure.
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Like it's all mashed up into there and it's hilarious.
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It's a line of people named Q.
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That would be fantastic if that hasn't been happened.
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Keenan, write it up.
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Hey, write it up.
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Hey, Steven.
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So Jordan, this is a podcast where I don't know much about waiting in lines, but I do
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know plenty about Alex Jones.
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And I only know a little bit about both.
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It's the fun.
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So Jordan, today we've got an interesting sort of present day episode to go over.
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But before we get to that, I'd like to take a little moment here to say thank you to some
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people who have signed up and are supporting the show.
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I think that's a good idea.
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So first, The Anna, A-N-N-H-A.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Anna.
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Thanks, Anna.
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The Anna.
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Yes.
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And Tom, thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thanks, Tom.
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Next Taylor, thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Thank you, Taylor.
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Thank you, Taylor.
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Next, Mr. Sir.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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I'm a policy wonk.
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Mr. Sir, thank you very much.
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Thank you.
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I would consider adding an Esquire as well.
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Sure, absolutely.
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That'll come into play a little bit later.
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Oh, of course it will.
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Next, Annabelle.
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Thank you so much.
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You are now a policy wonk.
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wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks Annabelle. And finally if I could say thank you to some people who signed up on an elevated level, we appreciate it very much.
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So Nick, thank you so much. Charles, thank you so much. And Francis Mary, thank you so much. You are all now wonderful technocrats.
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I'm a policy wonk. Crikey mate, that's fantastic. Have yourself a brew. How's your 401k doing, bro?
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Alright, we gotta go full tilt boogie on this Watson, alright? Let's just get down to business. We ain't making that money off that heroin.
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Why you pimps so good? My neck is freakishly large. I declare info war on you.
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Thank you so much Nick Charles and Francis Mary.
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Thank you very much Nick Charles and Francis Mary. Not Marie.
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No. We appreciate it very much. And if you're out there listening and thinking, hey, I like what these guys do, you can sign up to support the show on our website, knowledgefight.com.
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There's a button that says, support the show.
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So Jordan, today, like I said, we got a mostly present day situation going on because I was looking at things and I was like, well, you know what would be great?
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Everyone seems to be interested in all of these headlines that are coming out about Alex Jones losing an appeal in the Sandy Hook lawsuit.
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Seeing as we've come to the point in the 2013 investigation where it looks like things are going bad for Alex's coverage of Sandy Hook, you know, we got a break in the case in the present day.
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A break in the trial. So everyone probably wants to know what we think about that and Alex's response to this news breaking.
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And so I thought, alright, that news broke on September 4th, so we're going over September 5th today.
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Although I lost my patience for this episode pretty quickly. And I think you might be able to figure out why.
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Oh no.
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Robert Barnes is with us at the bottom of the hour to hit some P intel.
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We are going to be filing lawsuits next week. We've been a few weeks behind, but next week we're going to be filing some very important lawsuits in defense of America and free speech.
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Okay.
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There we go. Lawsuits in defense of America and free speech. Absolutely. And we got a little bit of Barnes.
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We got plenty of Barnes.
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We got plenty of Barnes.
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This show is so Barnes heavy.
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Oh, that's not good.
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In the present day, just all goddamn Barnes.
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I don't understand how you can have a show that's entirely about your own legal troubles now.
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In between, in between calling for a fucking violent overflow, overthrow.
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Right.
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Then it's just your own legal issues.
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Can you imagine if like Anderson Cooper's all of a sudden is just doing news about his own.
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How he's getting sued.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I kind of find it conceptually interesting, but in practice it's not a good show.
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No.
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The idea of it makes me laugh.
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Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
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Much like the idea of an SNL sketch makes me laugh, but the actual sketch probably not going to work out.
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No, not going to happen.
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So Alex has Barnes on to talk about these legal developments.
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And then what he's talking about there at the end of that clip is he's been threatening for a really long time to sue the Associated Press.
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Of course.
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And media organizations because he believes that the Associated Press said that he wrote that book, No One Died at Sandy Hook.
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And that he had lost a lawsuit about that book.
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Gotcha.
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However, as we've discussed in the past, this is erroneous.
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This is a different website.
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Had that headline and had taken some content from an AP article.
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But the AP article was not, it was all on that other website that had redistributed.
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So if Alex tries to sue the Associated Press over that, that's going to get thrown out of court.
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Like there's no way.
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Instantly.
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But he's posturing and grandstanding like next week we're going to file this suit.
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Of course.
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He's been saying that for fucking ever.
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Of course.
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It's ridiculous.
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They're a few weeks behind.
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He said they were a few weeks behind.
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It's way longer than that.
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He's been saying we're about to launch these websites.
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Barnes has just been crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
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Oh yeah.
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Yuck.
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Well, they had to make it through the summer of rage.
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And they have survived.
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They did.
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But there's a summer of rage coming.
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Oh no.
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This winter, summer of rage.
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Winter is the summer of rage?
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Shit.
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So Alex gets to talking about some new products that he's got.
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Okay.
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He has a new product.
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Oh no.
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And this product is, it sounds crazy to me.
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As we go to break, I want to just remind listeners.
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We are only here because of your tutelage.
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Because of your patronage.
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Because of your support.
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And I salute.
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Tutelage?
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And I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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And I want to unveil a product that I believe, because I've been taking it for several months.
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You may have noticed my clarity and focus in the last few weeks really.
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What?
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Oh, this product.
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Clarity and focus.
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Oh no.
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Through the roof.
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Lately.
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This is the product that provides clarity and focus?
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You see him, he's laser focused on the issues.
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He's in the weeds, man.
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This guy has a policy launch.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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And thanks to this product.
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He's the worst advertisement for this specific product in the history of ever.
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Yeah.
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I've been focused, real laid back.
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Calm.
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Some would say friendly.
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Non-combative.
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So this is a product called Chill Force.
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And here's Alex saying a few words about that.
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Okay.
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Well, Chill Force does that, but with the latest.
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This is going to be the new rage the next few years, where it's a system that chills
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you out, but heightens your awareness.
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It's like a smooth zen awareness.
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You can get Chill Force out of the gates.
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You can just do mushrooms, man.
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I would say he's like six months away from like, how close is he getting to like Soma?
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At one point, does it cross over into like he's just doing Brave New World?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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This product will make you hyper aware, but also really relaxed.
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Yeah, 100%.
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All right, buddy.
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I don't think he'll ever do...
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I think he can't combine it in one product.
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What he wants you to do is wake up in the morning, take some brain force to get you
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through your morning.
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Then, as you're coming down on that, you take some Chill Force to go to bed at night.
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No, no, no, no.
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Put all that shit in between.
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Chill Force is for the evening.
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Chill Force is for going to bed.
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Gotcha, gotcha.
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You have even more products in the life cycle of the day.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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He wants you to take a pill for literally every moment of your day to do something else.
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Infowars health can heighten every experience.
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Infowars is life.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I'm surprised he hasn't put CBD into anything.
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But see, that's the other thing I was thinking, is that this is a pathetic attempt at trying
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to tap into the rising CBD market.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah, I think that's probably what's going on.
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But, either way, I just think it's really funny the idea Alex is selling a chill out
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pill.
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Chill Force.
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Chill Force.
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One that he's been taking effectively.
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One thing I am known for is not my outbursts.
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Ridiculous.
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Oh, boy.
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So, Alex, I'm going to skip this clip because it's just Alex saying that he has new shows
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coming soon and that he's going to be soon going to a 20 hour live a day broadcast format.
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Sure, sure.
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I cut that clip because it's just the same thing as the lawsuits are coming.
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It's all the same shit over and over and over again.
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You throw in a couple of new novel little pieces of bigotry here and there.
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Some weird defense of something Trump does.
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And then the rest of it is all just like, it's coming.
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Don't worry about it.
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Down the road.
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So, we get to this point.
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And I should say, there are some instances of Alex saying that he's indicating some desires
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to get away from Trump.
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But what it is is after the El Paso and Dayton shootings, Trump came out and said, hey, maybe
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these red flag laws, maybe there's some value to this, some merit.
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And Alex, his narrative on that was that that was the rope-a-dope, trying to get the globalists
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to reveal themselves and then give them nothing.
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And now it appears that that is not true.
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And that Trump might actually, or at least people within the administration might actually
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be interested in these red flag type laws.
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And Alex is saying that he will call for impeachment if Trump goes down that road.
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So, we'll see about that.
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But I'm less interested in that because there's a bigger issue going on and that is why he
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sat down with the fifth in the first place.
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And that, of course.
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Stay with us.
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We're going to hit a key top when we come back.
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Can I really just lose a Sandy Hook lawsuit?
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No, I didn't.
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Wait till you hear this.
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All right.
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You're never going to believe the truth.
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Okay.
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So, he didn't lose a Sandy Hook lawsuit.
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No, of course not.
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I mean, it depends on what you mean by Sandy Hook lawsuit, I suppose.
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Yeah.
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There's wiggle room.
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Have you ever seen outside?
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You're wrong.
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You haven't.
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Anything.
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Anything that's obviously true.
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Nope.
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You are an idiot for thinking that.
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Well, how do you know anything exists?
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Booyah.
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Oh, man.
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Now, here's Barnes to talk about existentialism.
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Here's the most solipsistic lawyer that I can think of.
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Barnes.
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I don't believe anything exists.
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Well, that hurt.
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Trying to parody his breathing patterns really hurt.
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Please, don't do an impression of Barnes.
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It is a hazardous thing.
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We are professionals and even then, it's dangerous to do.
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Yeah.
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So, he comes back from commercial break and he gets into talking about the Sandy Hook
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lawsuit.
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I know when listeners hear about Sandy Hook, your eyes glaze over.
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Show to mind.
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But this latest debate with Sandy Hook disinformation is illustrated of how the corporate media
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lies en masse towards a certain aim.
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So, if I can show the viewers a close shot of this, please.
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Another twist in the Sandy Hook family's defamation case against Alex Jones.
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That's the Washington Post two months ago, got no coverage.
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You have to specifically search the headline to even find it.
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It's buried.
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But there was a special interest case where the Supreme Court came in of Connecticut,
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took over the case before it ever even went to trial, years before it was going to trial,
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which is incredibly rare, saying that there were anomalies to how I was being treated.
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We'll let Barnes, who's an expert on this, describe how important this is.
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Notice, you don't see how we're winning there and how they're trying to railroad us.
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But it's so bad that even Supreme Courts are coming in, not after the case, but before.
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Very rare.
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So, first things first, that Washington Post article that he's talking about is not buried.
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It's literally as easy to find as any other article that's been posted on their website,
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if you just look for it.
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Alex is just trying to present the idea that there's some larger story where he's the good
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guy getting railroaded, but the media won't cover it.
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And that is bullshit.
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That Washington Post article and the stuff about the Connecticut Supreme Court, that
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has nothing to do with Alex's main court case.
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That's specifically about the sanctions he was hit with after he drunkenly put out a
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million dollar bounty on the opposing counsel, after which he was found to have unknowingly
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sent them email containing a legal pornography as part of his discovery process.
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From the article, quote, the Connecticut Supreme Court agreed to hear an appeal of a lower
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court's decision sanctioning broadcaster Alex Jones.
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From later in the article, quote, last month a judge in Connecticut sanctioned Jones for
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two reasons.
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She said his legal team failed to produce several documents despite repeated orders,
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and she decried what she described as a 20 minute deliberate tirade and harassment and
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intimidation on Jones's broadcast about the lawsuit and one of the plaintiff's attorneys.
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Alex's lawyers had a number of complaints about this, which largely boiled down to claiming
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that her sanctions were a violation of Alex's free speech rights.
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This is all good and well, but from everything that's publicly available, it doesn't appear
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that this Connecticut Supreme Court appeal is concluded yet.
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So I have no idea what that has to do with the current situation and all the headlines
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that are coming out now.
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And certainly it has no indication or bearing on the idea that the larger case has anything
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to do with the Connecticut Supreme Court or that they think that he's being unfairly treated
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in that case.
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This is narrowly about the sanctions.
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And the conversation, as I understand it, is about whether or not the judge can sanction
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Alex for something he does out of court.
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With the question being, does his out of court behavior in as much as he's threatening and
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trying to intimidate the opposing counsel, does that affect the court proceedings?
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And I agree.
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But I'm not a lawyer.
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That is a very simple question.
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I'm not a lawyer.
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But I don't know, I don't know how it works within a courtroom.
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So I understand why someone would want to talk it out.
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Right.
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I understand.
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But this isn't the Wild West where it's like, no, no, no, it's cool.
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He did it in the saloon.
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He threatened to kill my lawyer.
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That's a completely different situation than if he did it in court.
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I could, I could see the reason for this Connecticut Supreme Court to hear it, even if they didn't
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agree with Alex's interpretation.
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Right.
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I mean, there's nothing that they agreed to hear it other than like, it's kind of a novel
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question.
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Let's see what the arguments are.
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Exactly.
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I think that's what it really is, is they're sending it to the Supreme Court so they don't
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have to deal with it ever again.
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And it's not like the Connecticut Supreme Court stepped in and was like, nah, nah, nah,
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nah, nah, you're wronging my boy Alex over here.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Stop it with that shit.
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No, they're more like, OK, fine, we'll listen to this asshole.
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Yeah.
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Let's do it.
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The current headlines we're seeing involve the defamation lawsuit he's facing in Texas.
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The Texas case was filed against Alex and it was brought by Neil Heslin, the father
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of a six-year-old child who was killed at Sandy Hook.
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As the case got going, Alex tried to have the case dismissed, which did not work.
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He then tried to appeal the decision to not dismiss the case.
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And the news stories popping up now are all related to the Texas Court of Appeals determining
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that the case can't be dismissed and Alex has to pay all the legal fees incurred by
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the other side during the appeal.
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And he has to produce all the internal documents and emails in that discovery process, which
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he had been refusing to provide.
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All in all, what I see here is an intentional strategy being employed by Alex and his legal
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team of stalling and sidetracking.
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He doesn't want to see the inside of a courtroom actually having to be under oath and talking
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about this stuff because he knows he fucked up.
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Courts are really bad places for con men, but the legal system is also a place where
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other cons can be run.
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So instead of moving forward with the actual case, you stall.
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You fuse to hand over required documents and then that turns into the judge issuing a side
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motion.
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And before you know it, you're fighting a largely unrelated battle over whether or not
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you should give the lawyers your emails.
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That drags on forever.
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And on the off chance you win one of these little side quests, you can run around pretending
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that the whole case is a sham as proven by the win.
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If you lose that little side thing, as Alex did in this Texas case, you end up having
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a bunch of articles written about how you lost this appeal.
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And then you can get on your show and be like, the media is saying I lost the case.
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They're all fucking liars.
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It's a win win.
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And you prolong the like the day of reckoning when you're actually in court under oath.
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And as far as the cost go, like what is it, 10 grand for the cost of the plaintiff's lawyers
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on that?
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From what Barnes says, it's lower.
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It's not.
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It's kind of a negligible cost whenever you already have a large case going.
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Yeah, so exactly.
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Yeah.
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So how much of that is like bravado?
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I don't know.
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But I would assume that if you're already in, if you're in for a penny, you're in for
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a pound.
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Right.
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That kind of thing.
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Well, and not least of which is if your main court case keeps going and the penalties are
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millions of dollars, which I imagine we're going to be seeing very high penalties at
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the very least.
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Possible.
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It's definitely worth 10 grand or whatever to put that day off another six months.
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You know, to make sure that, hey, at the, at the very, you know, I'd almost rather spend
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a lot of iodine in six months and maybe that'll help lighten the blow.
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Yeah.
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It's almost like I would spend all of my money pushing the case back for the rest of my life
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rather than just lose and still have to give all of my money away.
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It's a, that is a strategy.
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Yeah.
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From everything I can tell, Alex's behavior is absolutely the behavior of someone who
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really, really doesn't want some specific thing to come out.
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Really doesn't want it.
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I don't know what that thing is, but he knows that something about this case exposes him.
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If I had to guess, I would say it's either something about the source of his money or
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something that indicates how editorial decisions are made at InfoWars.
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Either of these things would be pretty much, you know, incredibly germane to the Sandy
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Hook lawsuit.
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So I could obviously see Alex fighting like crazy to stop the discovery process in any
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way he can.
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It turns out that his only real strategy is kind of just to throw temper tantrums that
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take a while to resolve and slow up the process, which can buy you a little time, like six
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months in the case of this Texas appeal, but it's not going to work in the end.
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He's just delaying the inevitable, and that inevitability is that whatever he doesn't
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want people to know is going to come out.
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Based on how these cases seem to be going and how he's pretty regularly being forced
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to pay plaintiff's legal fees, I would say that he has every reason to suspect that if
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these cases proceed, he's going to be bankrupted.
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If he thought that he had half a chance to win on the merits, he wouldn't be doing all
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this weaselly shit to stall the cases.
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These feel like his last gasp Hail Mary attempts to avoid what could easily be his undoing,
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if not just from a public humiliation standpoint, at least from a possibly going broke one.
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I can't get away from this strategy not matching someone who wants to be in court.
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Like someone who wants to prove themselves innocent wouldn't play these sorts of games.
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These are the games that are played by people who need to not go to court.
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This is like Equifax and shit like that.
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They will throw off any side.
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The billion dollar company is like, toss this, toss this, let's do everything we can, and
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then you always read those stories where it's like, after 10 years of appeals and it's gone
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all this way, Equifax finally agrees to pay everybody fucking nothing, which they knew
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they were going to have to do anyways.
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It's one of the downsides of the fairness of the legal system is things are considered.
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So Alex, I don't think he's in a good place, but I'll tip my hat to him because he claims
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that he's not seeking money from the Sandy Hook parents in this lawsuit, although he
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does kind of contradict himself in this clip.
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But then look at this, Alex Jones seeks $100,000 for Sandy Hook families, the Daily Beast.
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None of that's true.
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I waive attorney's fees, but now they keep filing more and more suits on top of them
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for no reason.
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So we're not going to be able to do that.
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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
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So the Daily Beast reported that Alex is seeking the $100,000, which is in lawyer's fees, and
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that's not true.
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But now he is doing that.
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Well, they have to, because they're suing him more, he has to now want that.
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Okay.
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So he is.
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So the article is true?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So Alex saying it's not true is a lie.
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Well, it wasn't true.
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Okay.
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But now it's true.
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All right.
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See, okay.
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Whatever.
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Here's what he's got for you.
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When the article was written, not true.
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Okay.
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Today, the day after the article is written, totally true.
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Okay.
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Sounds good.
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Not a lie.
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Hooray.
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So Alex, in this next clip, just tries to deny and obfuscate the reality of the situation
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he's in.
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I've not gone to trial on any of this.
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Clearly, it's been filed in Democrat controlled areas to railroad me.
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It's so obvious that the Supreme Court of Connecticut got involved.
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I mean, this is amazing, but it does make me wonder, what are they going to do next?
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Here's yesterday, all over the newspapers, and the paper locally today, Jones loses Texas
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appeal in ongoing lawsuit with Sandy Hookfather, didn't lose an appeal.
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We'll explain that in a moment.
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It's all just down to what you define.
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You're able to say things like this because you're going to be like, well, technically,
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the declining of the appeal was based on a jurisdictional issue, and it wasn't on the
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merits of the case or whatever.
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You can split hairs like that if you want to, but if you look at the larger picture
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of the case as it's going, this is not a positive for Alex.
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It's one more battle lost in a long ongoing war.
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Well, it's a thing that Alex was pursuing, and that is to appeal the non-dismissal of
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the case.
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The end result of that is no.
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Whatever the reason for the no is, it's still a no.
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You did not get the outcome you sought, so I look at that as, nah, that's not great.
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So Barnes comes on and they talk a whole lot of bullshit about how this is going to end
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free speech.
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That's the...
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Okay.
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All by itself.
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This lawsuit, if allowed to proceed.
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If even allowed to proceed.
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Yes.
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And not only that, that is also the goal of the people suing him.
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Okay.
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And if some of the legal theories being pursued are permitted or allowed, then press will
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no longer be free and speech will no longer be free in the United States.
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So these cases will establish the true scope of the First Amendment, and it'll probably
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be the most seminal, foundational, fundamental First Amendment cases in the country for decades
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to come.
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And by the way, you're not just saying that.
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The Washington Post, the New York Times, the Rolling Stone, they all say, we're ending
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the First Amendment using Jones.
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We don't need it anymore.
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It's bad.
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They're not even denying that they're ending free speech in America and trying to use a
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straw man they built to me.
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I want to get into some other big geopolitical issues.
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Why are you getting into big geopolitical issues with Robert fucking Barnes?
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Barnes has a lot to add.
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Sure he does.
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Every time we've listened to Barnes, I've thought, man, this guy has some really good
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takes on life.
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Yeah.
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I think he's great.
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I think Barnes is lovely.
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He knows the nitty gritty, the details, what's going on over there in Kashmir.
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Absolutely.
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You call up Barnes, ask him where Khartoum is and he'll tell you.
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Absolutely.
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So that block rock and beats takes us out to break.
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Yes.
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And I caught a little something in one of Alex's commercials that I thought was interesting.
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Thomas Jefferson.
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Oh, no.
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Over 240 years ago, that when our republic was in trouble in the future, it'd be the
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farmers that were close to the ground, close to reality, who actually work for a living
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that would end up saving the nation.
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And today the communist Chinese have banned all U.S. farming goods a week ago.
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Well, that makes sense.
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I think, I don't know that to be a Thomas Jefferson quote.
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I can't find it in anything.
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I think he's referencing just the Charlton Heston speech that we talked about in a recent
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episode.
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I think you're right.
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I think he's convinced himself entirely that that's a real Thomas Jefferson quote.
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He's just quoting Charlton Heston.
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That's not good.
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God, I've never seen anybody bungle a supposed bungle.
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I've never seen a hero this bad.
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Yeah, it's comical.
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This is tremendous.
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So they come back and we finish up Barnes' appearance, because most of it is just deflection
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nonsense.
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Yeah, of course.
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You know, after all that, Barnes gives a little bit of a plug for something that I've been
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a little bit aware of for a bit now because of listening to these episodes.
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But it's something that he's becoming more public about, and it's actually something
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that I think deserves a little bit.
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His new product, lukewarm force.
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Oh, no, if only.
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We salute you, and I think people should become members at your amazing organization.
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Again, tell people about the new organization.
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Yeah, it's Free America Law Center.
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Anyone can find it at www.freeamericallawcenter.com, freeamericallawcenter.com.
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For $17.76 a month so they can become a member, they just want to donate, they can do that
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too.
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But what we give them is, first of all, they are going to be supporting the most important
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litigation in the country.
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This doesn't go to legal fees, this goes to court costs, witness fees, service fees, all
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of those other incidental costs that right now we're paying out of our own pocket.
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Depositions.
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Exactly.
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I already have the lawyers lined up, lawyers to bring great cases to equalize the equation
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because the left has effectively monopolized public interest law in this country.
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So the left has taken over the ACLU entirely to where they're not defending anybody on
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the right anymore.
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The Southern Poverty Law Center has been a political hack organization for forever.
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We need a counterpart to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an antidote to the liberal bias
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of the ACLU.
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Oh boy.
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So Jordan, Robert Barnes is entering what I would describe as the dangerous part of
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his path as a scam artist.
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It's all good and well to manipulate Alex and feast on his court expenses.
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It's almost amusing to watch how he's completely insinuated himself into the actual programming
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at Infowars to the point where Alex now refers to him as an expert in things like international
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relations.
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Very funny.
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It's understandable to see him popping up on other scams slash reactionary outlets like
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the Rubin Report and doing interviews with Stefan Molyneux.
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This is all predictable territory and where a guy like Robert Barnes can shine.
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However, now he's embarking on a project that no matter how it shakes out is a really bad
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sign.
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Robert Barnes has launched the Free America Law Center, which he views as the antidote
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to the liberal stranglehold over the world of law.
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The SPLC and ACLU are just shills for the Democrat Party.
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So the right wing needs is their own version of these organizations in order to even the
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playing field.
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The FALC.
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Yep.
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God, it would be so much better if he found Free America International Law or something
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like that and he just owned himself so stupidly.
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That'd be great.
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That would be hilarious.
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So in his justifying the need for this organization, he claims that the ACLU only does cases for
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liberals nowadays, which is patently false.
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No shit.
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The ACLU is a nonpolitical entity that does so much goddamn work for people's rights,
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it would take what's left of Barnes's breath away if he actually gave them a fair look.
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Here are some of the cases the ACLU is involved in right now.
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James Aaron McKinney was sentenced to death for a murder, but at his trial, the judge
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didn't take into consideration evidence related to his post-traumatic stress disorder, which
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could have been seen as a mitigating circumstance in terms of applying capital punishment.
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That case has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, but the rights of a human
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being.
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That's some left-wing commie nonsense to me, Dan.
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Probably.
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Also, they're defending the kid who was involved in the DC sniper attacks based on the reasoning
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that he was sentenced to life without parole as a juvenile, which is now prohibited.
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Does he deserve a new sentencing?
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Should the ruling be retroactive to minors who were sentenced to life without parole
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prior to the Montgomery versus Louisiana Supreme Court decision making that an inappropriate
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sentence?
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This has nothing to do with politics and the ACLU is on the front lines of stuff like that.
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Compassion is left-wing now, I think.
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I guess.
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But that's not even compassion.
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No.
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I mean, kind of.
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You can still hate this dude for pulling off a fucking sniper attack.
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That's true.
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And still recognize that maybe his sentencing is invalid now because of the new Supreme
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Court decision.
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Right, right, right.
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These are just a couple of cases they're currently involved in that involve possibly unpopular
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stances being taken to defend individual rights, and there are plenty more examples of apolitical
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shit in the work they do.
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The ACLU is the American Civil Liberties Union, and the issue here is that people like Alex
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and Barnes have a very specific definition of what civil liberties means.
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The ACLU believes the definition includes taking on cases where refugee rights are being
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trampled on, where LGBTQ folks' rights are being violated, where women's rights are violated,
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where voting rights are being eroded.
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Never!
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All of these are areas where Alex and his ilk are actively interested in those rights
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being curtailed.
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So of course they think that an organization that specifically exists to defend those rights
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is a secret globalist outfit trying to crush conservatives.
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If their definition of conservatives is not into respecting the rights of non-straight
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white male naturally born citizens, then I guess the ACLU is the enemy of conservatives.
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Yeah, it is.
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So it's the most transparent thing to see, and it makes total sense why the narratives
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work out this way.
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This organization works to counter the bad things I want to see in the world, therefore
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I need to smear them as a way of invalidating their work in anything they might do.
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It's almost reflexive.
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And that's not to say that the ACLU doesn't deserve some criticism in some places.
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It's just not the type that people like Barnes and Alex apply to it is completely the wrong
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criticism.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It's invalid criticism.
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I can't imagine people...
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You can be mad at the ACLU.
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I've been mad at the ACLU.
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But generally speaking, if you think the ACL is a bad organization, chances are you're
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a bad person.
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And same with the SBLC.
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There's a lot of very valid criticisms that you can make of a lot of especially internal
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stuff.
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Just earlier this year, there's some real bad stuff came out about internal working
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conditions and employee harassment, things like allegations of that sort.
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I think it's very valid to be critical of those organizations, just not in the blanket.
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They're run by liberals to crush us whites kind of way.
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That's the mentality that's a problem.
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Those two organizations, I've always thought that...
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There are those criticisms, the working conditions are terrible and all that stuff.
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But the main goals of the ACLU and the SBLC have always been like, you remember all that
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stuff in the Constitution?
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We'd like that to apply to everybody.
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We want what America's original goals are, but just for all people.
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And of course white people hate that, or certain white people hate that, or Alex.
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So my big issue here is with Barnes' plan to set up his own counter ACLU or SBLC based
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on a completely inaccurate portrait of what either of those groups are or do.
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Fascist asshole law center.
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One of the big problems with Barnes' plan is that groups like what he's describing already
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exist throughout the ACLU.
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As an example, there are still so many nonpolitical rights focused advocacy groups in the United
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States.
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I mean, for fuck's sake.
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In 1998, conservatives started their own American Civil Rights Union, specifically as a response
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to the ACLU.
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This is old territory.
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It's been done before.
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And for these reasons, you really have to ask yourself, why is Barnes doing this?
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This already exists.
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Ooh, I know.
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I know.
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Hold your thoughts.
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I have my hands up.
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Okay.
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One possibility, and I think it's maybe one of the more likely possibilities is that this
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is a scam.
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Yeah.
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We've discussed many times that the trend on the right wing and the scam community is
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tended towards lawsuit scams, as their ability to really make much headway on social media
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spaces is diminished.
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And along with that, their ability to pull off compelling and profitable publicity stunts
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has waned.
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It could make complete sense that Barnes knows that the future of right wing scams is likely
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gonna be a series of impotent threats to file lawsuits, which are then used to raise money
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for the person issuing the threat.
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We saw that kind of shit from Laura Loomer not too long ago, and we've seen it from Alex
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forever.
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Like, how long has he been saying he's gonna sue the Associated Press that we talked about
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at the beginning of this episode?
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Yep.
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He's always just about to file those lawsuits.
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Oh, we're ready.
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And until he does, he has the ability to tease his audience.
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You all hate the mainstream media, and I'm just the guy to fight them for you, so give
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me money.
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Or at least the lawsuit is coming any day now, Schrodinger's lawsuit.
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If Barnes is smart, then this freedom law center, this free America law center, is him
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setting up a corporate entity so he can make these idle legal threats seem credible and
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then take a cut off the top, which, if that's it, then I respect the hustle, and I tip my
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hat to him scamming these racist idiots.
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Oh, and it's gonna be filed as a 501c3 as well.
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However, Jordan, there's a possibility that this is something far more nefarious.
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I'd like to tell you a little story about a man named Kirk David Lyons, a man whose
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footsteps Robert Barnes may be following in.
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Kirk Lyons grew up in Texas, and according to a bio of him from Baylor University, quote,
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From a young age, Lyons was confronted with the issue of racial equality, which was realized
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through the forced integration of public schools.
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Hmm, Baylor, that's a very ambiguous line.
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It's a bad sentence.
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That's not good.
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If a write-up of your early years includes seeing black people in schools was difficult
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for Kirk as a child, there's a good chance that story is not gonna end well.
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Yeah, see, they really hammed up what the, like, they very much hid, I think, what it
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was that was actually going on.
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I think it's a diplomatic phrasing.
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It was, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But still, if you read between the lines, you can tell there's trouble.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So Lyons went on to law school at the University of Houston and then started practicing on
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his own.
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Then, in 1985, he met Louis Beam, the former head of the Klan and then head of the Aryan
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Nations.
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Right.
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Beam was brought to Lyons by a mutual acquaintance and had set up the meeting because he was
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afraid he was about to get arrested and he wanted to secure counsel.
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Now, why this mutual friend would think, hey, I know a guy who would be really interested
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in getting in on the ground floor of the Louis Beam legal team, that's anyone's guess.
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I would imagine it's probably because Lyons gave off that old telltale, cool with Nazis
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vibe.
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Yeah, he's more of one of those guys who preferred Alabama in 59, you know what I mean?
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Like, that's how Baylor should put it.
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He's one of those, Kirk.
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Not all of this is from Baylor.
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Yeah.
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Ironically, a good amount of this information came from the Southern Poverty Law Center,
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which is why people like Barnes hate them.
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Yeah.
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So when Beam was arrested in 1987, Lyons left his practice to represent him in a trial
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that's known as the Fort Smith Sedition Trial.
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In that trial, 14 white supremacist leaders were tried on accusations they had planned
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to overthrow the government.
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Outside of a court of law, that's a slam dunk case.
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These dudes literally never stop talking about crushing the Zionist-occupied government.
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They are not very secretive about what they want and plan to do.
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So what they're saying outside of the courtroom is, we are planning together to overthrow
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the government.
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Right.
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Now, when they get inside of a courtroom, Dan...
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That's free speech.
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No, it seems like...
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It's free speech.
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It seems like, no, but it seems like they were actually planning it.
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It's free speech.
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You can't prove anything.
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Never mind.
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So Beam was on trial along with Richard Snell and David Lane, who were members of white
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supremacist groups who had already carried out murders, as well as the founder of the
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Aryan Nations, Richard Butler.
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A white supremacist named Glenn Miller agreed to testify against the other men in exchange
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for a reduced sentence on a ton of other charges, including making bombs.
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Yeah.
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He served three years in prison thanks to his cooperation.
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In 2014, Glenn Miller carried out two shootings at the Jewish Community Center of Greater
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Kansas City and Village Shalom, the second of which is a retirement home.
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He killed three people.
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Ironically, since his attack was clearly based on his antisemitism, none of the people he
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killed were Jewish.
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At the community center, he killed a 14-year-old and his grandfather, who were just there visiting.
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At the retirement home, he killed an occupational therapist.
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All of his victims were Christians.
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Anyway, that's the legacy of one of these guys who...
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Yeah.
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Great.
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Good people.
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Good peeps.
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That guy could have been in prison for a lot longer than three years, but he agreed to
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testify in the Fort Smith Sedition trial, so he got a lesser sentence.
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Unfortunately, his assistance in the case was pointless.
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All of the defendants were acquitted due to lack of evidence, which is exactly the sort
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of outcome you'd expect in a case like that.
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It's insanely hard to prove a conspiracy, particularly one to actually overthrow the
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government, when it's perfectly acceptable as a defense to say that your constant screaming
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about how the government has been taken over by malevolent demons is just criticism of
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the state and its protected free speech.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, all these dudes walked, and immediately Kirk Lyons became a big fucking deal in the
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world of white supremacy.
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God, I hate them.
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He was the lawyer that saved all their leaders from jail time.
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And as Louis Beam put it, quote, dealt a huge blow to the Zog.
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That's such one of those fucking things where you're like, I get it, and I know I shouldn't
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be one making the decision, but everybody knows that Colin Kaepernick should be in the
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fucking NFL, and it's a goddamn conspiracy to keep him out of the NFL, but you go into
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courtroom and they're like, well, you can't prove that.
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And it's like, no, of course you can.
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He should be there.
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The fact that he's not is proof that he's being blackballed.
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But they're like, nope, you can't prove it.
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That's the difference between what you can come on, prove, and what you can prove, prove.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So it's one thing for a lawyer to defend white supremacists and Nazis.
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As we've discussed many times, no matter how villainous a person is, it doesn't make you
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a villain for defending them in court.
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It might mean you're a shithead, but it doesn't prove that.
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Just the fact that Lyons decided to put his previous career on hold to defend Louis fucking
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Beam doesn't mean that he's a Klansman or a Nazi.
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Absolutely true.
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The fact that he was an active Klansman and a Nazi does prove that, though.
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That does help.
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Yes.
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There is not a dearth of evidence for this one.
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He marched with the Klan and Nazis in 1989 in Tennessee.
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He was a member of the National Alliance, a group run by William Luther Pierce, the
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author of the Turner Diaries.
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He was definitely, definitely a member of these groups, as proven by correspondences
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written by Pierce identifying Lyons as a lawyer within their ranks.
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To give you some idea how deep in the mix Lyons was, when he got married in 1990, the
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ceremony took place at the Aryan Nations compound.
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His bride had two brothers.
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One was in prison because he was a member of the Order and was involved with some of
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their murders.
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He's a member of the fucking Order?
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God, I hate these people.
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The other brother was second in command of the Aryan Nations.
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Right.
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Right.
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Richard Butler.
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So he was marrying royalty?
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Yes.
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God, I hate these people.
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Richard Butler, the founder of the Aryan Nations and one of the men who Lyons helped beat those
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sedition charges, officiated the ceremony.
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Were they all wearing white hoods, too?
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Louis Beam was his best man.
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God.
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He was in deep.
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That is deep.
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Yep.
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In 1988, Lyons was invited to give a speech at the Aryan Nations World Congress, where
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he discussed ideas about setting up a foundation which could operate like the SPLC, but protect
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people who were white supremacist leaders, who were like those white supremacist leaders
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who he represented, people who he thought were just patriots and dissidents, in quotes.
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Sure.
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This took shape in the form of the Patriots Defense Foundation.
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In soliciting donations for the PDF, William Luther Pierce told his followers in a newsletter,
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quote, Houston member Kirk Lyons, an attorney, has organized the Patriots Defense Foundation
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as a start towards doing for our people what the Jews have done to our enemies, for our
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enemies.
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Man, that sure seems like a conspiracy to overthrow the government.
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I'm just saying.
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The PDF would change its name in 1991 and would henceforth be known as CAUSE, which
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stands for Canada, Australia, U.S., South Africa, and Europe, reflecting the areas in
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the world where white people were being attacked, according to them.
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Right.
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Right, right, right, right.
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They billed themselves as, quote, America's only pro-white law firm, and put out ads in
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all of the places you would expect, Soldier of Fortune, Stormfront, all the normal places.
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Yeah, we're not really a pro-law kind of place.
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We're more a pro-white kind of place.
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The law is secondary.
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You know what I'm saying?
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I don't really like that whole law, so we're going to do whatever we can to get around
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it.
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Stick with our pro-white shit.
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Yeah.
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And we're not into the laws.
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Yeah, exactly.
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From there, he started courting all the right-wing monsters he could to take on his clients,
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from Holocaust deniers to your run-of-the-mill militia guys who might have killed someone
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because they didn't like them existing.
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Right.
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Kirk Lyons was an attendee of the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous, the meeting held by Christian
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identity preacher Pete Peters, which brought together all the luminaries in the world of
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white bigotry.
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He was there with Larry Pratt, head of Gun Owners for America and early Alex Jones sponsor.
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Pratt ended up having to resign for Pat Buchanan's 1996 presidential campaign because it came
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out that he was at that meeting.
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But the other reason he had to step down is it was revealed that Gun Owners for America
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had given CAUSE, the white supremacist law organization, tens of thousands of dollars.
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Then, as the case was for everyone in the right-wing patriot militia world, the Oklahoma
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City bombing fucked everything up.
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It came out that Kirk was close associates with Andreas Strassmeier and it actually introduced
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him to people at Elohim City, which looked really bad when rumors started flying around
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that Strassmeier might have had something to do with the plan or inspiration for the
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bombing.
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A lot of the militia community thought that Strassmeier was working for the government,
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so that association was toxic there.
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Ironically, it was the same white supremacist he'd buddied up to who were now making his
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life hell as they were trying really hard to point fingers at anyone other than Timothy
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McVeigh.
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So Andreas Strassmeier gets mixed up real deeply in this conspiracy theory and now he's
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friends with that dude.
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Now the problem is that the sane world also saw Strassmeier as potentially a really dangerous
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extremist who'd played some undefined role in a deeply traumatic terrorist attack.
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So his association with him was toxic to that world too.
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Kirk Lyons had had his fun with the overt white supremacy world, but it looked like
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his good time was over.
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Not quite over.
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Man, it's really almost like being involved with a group of fascist sociopaths.
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You just don't know when they're going to turn that sociopath part on you.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Like maybe they're bad people and you can't trust on their loyalty on account of them
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being awful.
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They have an interesting thought there.
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Yeah, that's just me.
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So his path was not quite over.
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Kirk knew the block was too hot, so he decided to rebrand.
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As Jennifer Lopez.
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No.
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He did so by founding the Southern Legal Rights Center, a direct shot fired at the Southern
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Poverty Law Center.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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We got it, dude.
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Well done.
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The SLRC was specifically created to defend Southern heritage, meaning neo-Confederate
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racists.
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Oh boy.
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Oh man.
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That's a...
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He preferred Alabama in 59, you know what I mean?
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So he's defending Southern heritage from what he called quote, an ethnic cleansing of Dixie.
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This was proto-demographic replacement shit.
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It was the early versions of this.
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He's consistently advanced a theory that quote, Confederate Southern Americans are a distinct
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race and thus to serve a distinction as a protected class under the Civil Rights Act.
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Whenever this theory has been brought out in court, it is not gone well, but it appears
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it did way better on the soliciting donations from racist circuit.
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I couldn't imagine that.
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It's almost like they can't wait to give their money away to a failing idiot.
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So here's the point.
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The right wing, particularly the white identity faction of the right wing, has a pretty deep
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tradition of presenting their arguments duplicitously, attempting to masquerade violent bigotry as
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a civil right and plotting terrorist acts against the government they feel as Zionist
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occupied as free speech.
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This is a scam that's been done before.
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I mean, you know, it may be that Robert Barnes isn't trying to get into this hustle, but
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I don't believe that.
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No, of course not.
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He's using very similar strategies to Kirk Lyons.
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He's using the same language about the SPLC only helping his enemies, and he's got his
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own Fort Smith sedition trial here in the form of Alex's Sandy Hook case.
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This looks like history repeating itself.
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One of the main reasons I feel that way is because there's already plenty of groups that
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do exactly what Barnes is pretending doesn't exist.
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There's already the American Civil Rights Union, which is very active and has filed
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tons of briefs defending Trump's Muslim ban, supporting voter ID laws, and trying to help
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with Republican redistricting and gerrymandering.
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There's also the Southeastern Legal Foundation, which just serves the purpose of a legal center
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for conservative causes.
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If you wanna go a little bit more libertarian with things, you could go with the Pacific
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Legal Foundation, which has been operating since 1973 and whose priorities literally
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completely overlap with what Alex pretends to care about.
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Private property, free speech, free association, due process, all that shit.
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If you want one that's religious in nature and pretty cool with you being anti-LGBTQ,
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you could mess around with the Alliance Defending Freedom.
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Or if you want one that's super Christian and kind of unclear about whether if they
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have a problem with you being anti-LGBTQ, you could consult the American Center for
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Law and Justice.
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For fuck's sake, there's already an organization called the American Freedom Law Center that
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is specifically about protecting vague ideas about Judeo-Christian heritage.
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There's so many of these fucking groups already, and many of them are very prominent, and they
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all address the exact issues that Robert Barnes is pretending no one addresses, thus his need
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for the Free America Law Center.
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His reason for starting the group is bullshit, and thus, I have to suspect there are other
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reasons.
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Oh, yeah.
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It could just be a scam, you know, and he's trying to fleece some racist idiots.
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But my gut says that you wouldn't take this all the way to the starting a foundation level
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if that was your goal, just fleecing people.
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This feels ideological.
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When you look at Robert Barnes and you see his past actions, his past client list, particularly
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of late, and the way he carries himself, nothing seems right.
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His past clients include Charles Johnson, a Holocaust denier who's kicked off Twitter
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for, quote, soliciting support to take out DeRay McKesson, who, as you know, is a civil
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rights leader and activist.
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That case was thrown out of court, but not before Barnes had a chance to frame the whole
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thing as censorship and anti-social media, you know, all that, all those good narratives.
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Yeah.
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It got a lot of traction out of it.
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When a fine, upstanding white man with a long history of anti-everything but white people
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threatens to kill a man and makes a detailed plan about it, you guys are all up in arms.
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Free speech!
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So that did real well in the right wing media, even though it got thrown out of court and
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people think it's a joke.
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Of course.
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He represented Cassandra Fairbanks when she sued a reporter at Fusion for saying that
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her making the okay hand signal, along with Mike Cernovich in a picture taken at the White
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House, was a white power sign.
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That case also got thrown out, but not before Barnes had a chance to frame it as a critical
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First Amendment and anti-media narrative.
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And again, he did really well in the right wing circuit with that.
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His latest hustle, Outside Alex, is representing the Covington kids.
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And by representing them, I mean he's going around threatening to sue everyone in the
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media plus Elizabeth Warren and apparently Ilhan Omar because they spoke ill of these
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fantastic white boys.
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In a particularly dramatic move, back in January he gave the people who spoke ill of the kids
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48 hours to retract their slanderous words or face the wrath of his lawsuits, which as
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we've seen seem to get thrown out of court a lot.
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After he'd made his very serious and very real threat, he was the target of another
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very serious and totally real threat when someone sent him a bomb threat.
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To be clear, I don't think that anyone should ever even jokingly threaten someone, so I
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do still think that the person who sent this message is a piece of shit and probably should
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have some consequences.
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But it's hilarious that Barnes decided to take it seriously and take to the right wing
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media to proclaim his victimhood about this.
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He made a mistake by sending a screenshot of this email that he received to media outlets.
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Like the Epoch Times.
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From that screenshot we can tell a few things.
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One is that Barnes uses Gmail, which is weird.
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Two, this threat came in from a form submission on his website, Barnes Law, which he runs
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through Squarespace, which is a little sad for someone in Barnes' position.
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I use Squarespace for fuck's sake.
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He's supposed to be a big time high end lawyer and he's got a goddamn $20 a month website
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going?
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Get the fuck out of here, Barnes.
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The reason I bring those two things up is that Squarespace is a huge company, and this
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isn't the first time someone has realized they can send messages with fake email addresses
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filled in, and send threatening things to people.
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That doesn't make them anonymous.
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In order to relay the message to Barnes' email, I find it incredibly unlikely that a footprint
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wouldn't be left behind, and that person's IP address wasn't logged by the server that
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sent the message through.
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Guess what, Dan, Dan, guess what?
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It's coming from inside the house.
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Oh no, I don't think that it necessarily was.
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I think that this is just selective media manipulation.
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Could be.
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The Epoch Times article says, quote, he's received thousands of messages since picking
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up the case, and hasn't been able to sift through all of them.
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I find that weird, because the subject line of that threat email is, quote, you're a racist
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piece of shit.
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And it doesn't say anything threatening at all.
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The headline of the email isn't at all threatening.
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It's just insulting.
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Free speech, as Barnes might say.
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Ah, no, they're doing it to him.
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He received that message at 1045 AM on January 23rd, and the Epoch Times article was published
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on January 24th.
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I find it incredibly hard to believe that he has thousands of messages, he can't get
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through all of them, but somehow he saw this one and created a media blitz out of it in
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under 24 hours.
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It's even harder to believe when you realize that the Epoch Times was late to the game
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on this story.
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The Gateway Pundit had an article up before 5 PM on the 23rd, hours after he received
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this email.
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Oh, Christ.
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And you know who wrote that broken breaking exclusive story for the Gateway Pundit?
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Why?
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It's Cassandra Fairbanks, Barnes's former client and one in one of her legal publicity
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stunts.
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So weird.
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Oh, my God, I hate these people so much.
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Very suspicious.
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I hate them so much.
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And now here with Alex, he has the Barnes is the perfect opportunity to parlay this
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case into pretty much a limitless self-promotion.
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He's representing a guy with a media empire that's not doing great financially.
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He needs a lawyer.
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You need publicity.
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It's perfect.
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It works out perfectly.
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But publicity wasn't about his own practice or even getting his own show and usurping
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Alex, as we've joked about.
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I suspect that it was about this all along.
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And it looks like now the transition is beginning.
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Barnes is openly promoting the America Free America Law Center on Alex's show.
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And Alex has to tell his listeners to donate to this cause.
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Yeah.
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And if you go to Barnes's Web site, Barnes Law, his law firm in the cases section, Alex
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isn't in there.
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You go to the Free America Law Center cases.
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Alex is in there.
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He's moving this stuff over there in order to build up a more robust thing.
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And if you look at the history of a lot of these these organizations, the ones that do
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exist don't have scam histories to them, right?
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Like these conservative or libertarian public law organizations don't have like, huh, we're
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going to fucking just support these grifter assholes and their publicity stunts and see
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what we can do.
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Yeah.
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That's not how these organizations start.
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But something like the Patriots Defense Fund comes out of that mentality.
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Yeah.
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So I'm worried.
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I'm worried.
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I'm not saying I need to be clear about this.
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I'm not saying that what Barnes is doing is exactly the same as what Kirk Lyons did.
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Right.
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In as much as like, you know, Kirk Lyons was straight up hanging out with and defending
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real neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
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Yeah.
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But I mean, at this point, what else can we call Alex?
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I don't I wouldn't.
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I still think there's a difference between.
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Definitely a white supremacist.
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There's a difference between him and fucking Richard Butler.
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There is an absolute.
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He's on the radio.
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That's one.
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I think I think that you could you could make an argument that some of the form and function
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of their the rhetoric is maybe similar.
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There's overlaps.
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But in terms of what they're doing, you can't even come close to comparing them.
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One guy started the Aryan Nations and one guy screams a bunch of incredibly bigoted
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shit on a radio show.
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Yeah.
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But, you know, he funneled some people into the Aryan Nation.
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So I guess the other guy started it.
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I guess he didn't start it.
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I mean, yeah.
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The other guy goes down in history as a fucking what, a legend?
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Well, I mean, if you want to put it that way, a fucking nightmare bogeyman.
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I was a bit concerned about this free America law center because I think that it could bode
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very terribly.
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It could turn into a form where Barnes is able to provide legal cover for a lot of these
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shithead propagandist racial agitators, anti-LGBTQ activists, some of the more fringe, dangerous
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people within the right wing media.
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And so I wanted to get more into it.
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But Alex doesn't talk about it all that much, except for this plug.
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I haven't really heard them bring it up all too much in his other appearances, although
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I did know that Barnes was starting it or he'd made plans to start it.
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And so I was like, well, all right, I got to go check out other things Barnes has done.
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And so I decided to listen to his interview with Stefan Molyneux.
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Oh, God, you don't have any clips of Molyneux talking, do you?
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Got a bunch.
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I fucking hate him.
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Well, sorry.
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I hate him so much.
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Sorry.
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So today, the rest of this episode, we're going to be going over Robert Barnes appearing
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on Stefan Molyneux's show because they talk a bit more about what Barnes wants to do with
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the Free America Law Center.
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And I figure, like, OK, if I have my theories and my ideas about what his motivations are,
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I need to hear him talk more about this.
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And this is the forum in which he did have an hour to talk about this.
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Here's my here's my pre guess.
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Pre guess.
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All right.
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When you file one of those bullshit lawsuits, like with Cassandra Fairbanks or any of that
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stuff, you got to put up the money right up top and then you got to ask for donations
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from people.
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What if you got donations from people coming and going?
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You have a law center where they donate to.
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So you don't have to even put up any of your own money to file these fake bullshit lawsuits.
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People are already donating to you.
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Then whenever you file them, you get to campaign for donations off of that shit.
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You have just got a giant funnel of money all for you without ever having to spend any
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of your own.
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I just think there's a large funnel of money that well, wherever it's coming from or where
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it's going.
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I mean, I don't I don't believe that 1776 subscriptions are going to pay for like high
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end lawsuits.
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Yeah.
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Like, I just don't think the subscriber base is nearly what he's like pretending it is.
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You would still need high end benefactors, right?
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Like that would be something that you would be able to mask with one of these, you know,
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not for profit 501 C three type organizations.
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So Stefan gets into this interview and he starts by sort of describing what he sees
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as Barnes's plan, as the two of them have clearly communicated prior to this where Barnes
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has explained what he's up to.
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I'm evil.
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I'm evil as well.
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Good text message.
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Hi, everybody.
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Stefan Molyneux here with Robert Barnes, caped superhero extraordinaire of the legal system
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who has put together a website and an approach that I think it's fair to say is designed
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to help with some of the challenges of, you know, if you're not on the left or if you
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criticize the left and you've been in the public eye for more than eight to 12 minutes
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at a time, then the tsunami of lies and falsehoods and slander and libel just comes pouring at
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you like some hell sent tsunami.
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Oh, sorry.
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And then you say, oh, well, I'm sure this can be easily corrected, given that lying
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about people and harming their reputation seems to be not good in the legal system.
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And then you run, you know, straight into these problems of having to prove actual malice
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and all these other kinds of things, especially if you're a public figure, of course.
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So the recourse in America, I think, tips a little bit more towards the First Amendment
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rather than reputational protection, but you're, I think, taking an approach that is very interesting.
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So I wonder if you could get us up to speed on your lawsuits and the approach that you're
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taking.
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Absolutely.
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So Stefan seems to be saying that, you know, I'm against the First Amendment when it comes
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to reputational protection.
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Yeah.
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Isn't he against the First Amendment?
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Isn't that what he just said?
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That's tough to square with.
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That's bananas.
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Yeah.
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But I mean, it's in line with like the stuff that Trump was saying about like opening up
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libel laws.
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Right.
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When he was on the campaign trail.
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Right.
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But so it kind of, you know, there is there is some like thematic similarity between that.
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But yeah, I mean, like what do you what he's advocating for is ludicrous, because like
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if someone does lie about you, you can still demand a retraction from them, even if there's
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no actual malice.
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Yeah.
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Like you can still do that.
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Only is about suing them.
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Yeah.
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And if you sue them, you definitely should have to prove that there was an intent behind
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their their lie about you.
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So I don't I'm worried.
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You would also have to prove that it was a lie.
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That's true, too.
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You know, there's the there's a larger issue with a lot of those lawsuits is they're saying
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that they're lying.
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Yeah.
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I mean, truth, though.
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Yeah.
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I mean, Stefan is complaining about, like, you know, because of these these like these
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all these big tech companies, you know, the there's no good things about certain people
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out there.
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Like, what if there isn't anything good to say?
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What if you're just a piece of shit, Stefan?
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You are a giant pile of garbage and nothing you've done will ever be of value to the rest
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of humanity.
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All I see is negative things tweeted at me.
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And like, that's clearly because of tech censorship.
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Sure.
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As opposed to there's just a lot of people who think bad things because there's no possible
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way that everybody couldn't agree that I'm the greatest.
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I don't understand why people would say any mean things to me.
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I think that that's a function of the narcissism that comes along with this world to like imagining
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that there's no way I could be wrong.
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There's no way that anyone could dislike me.
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So, you know, we we have this setup that the free speech is a problem because of the need
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to protect my reputation or something, which seems silly.
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But Barnes gets into answering that question.
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So the goal was we needed a legal institution that was sort of the counterpart to the Southern
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Poverty Law Center, sort of the antidote to the Southern Poverty Law Center, sort of the
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equivalent of the ACLU, but the equivalent of it for all people, not just people on the
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left, not just causes on the left, not just cause celebs on the left, which unfortunately
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is what the ACLU has mostly done these days.
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We needed something like that for people on the political right, for libertarians, for
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independent people, for people who aren't part of the cultural cachet of the left.
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That already exists as we've gone over 100 times.
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The framing of this, the presentation of why you need to do this is a lie.
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If you want to make the argument that like these things do exist, but they're ineffective,
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then you would be coming from a more honest perspective.
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If you wanted to say, all right, I'm Robert Barnes, I believe in these libertarian conservative
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ideas.
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Therefore, I'm going to join up with this other existing public law organization that
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already serves those interests.
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Work to make that better so it can be the antidote to the SBLC and ACLU.
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There are existing frameworks that are run by very credible people, you know, people
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who are of high stature in society.
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This reminds me so much of the, like, why aren't there any Muslim leaders decrying hardcore
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Muslim terrorism, huh?
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We never hear from the leaders of Islam that radical Islamic terror is awful.
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And then it's like, well, that's because you didn't Google it for two seconds.
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You don't want to hear that.
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You don't want to know that this already exists.
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I think that that's possible, but I honestly think that it's more that what he wants to
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do is different.
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And he doesn't really want to bring into the conversation that a real sane and even slightly
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insane version of what he talks about already exists and has for decades.
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He doesn't want to talk about that because he needs to present this as a new and novel
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idea.
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He needs to present the idea that the left has been dominating and the only people who
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are in that space of like public law.
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Because if he doesn't, then what he's doing just seems like it seems suspicious, right?
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It seems suspicious if you know that all these things already exist, right?
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And he doesn't want to answer the question of like, why are you doing this?
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That's absolutely true.
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Because yeah, if you're trying to create an antidote on the right to the ACLU and you're
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really going for it, you're going to wind up creating the ACLU, you know, you're just
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going to do the same thing that they do.
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It's just because that's how that, that's how that works.
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Yeah, it's fascinating.
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There are some like conservative leaning public civil rights and liberty based organizations
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that do side with the ACLU fairly not, I don't know, regularly, I couldn't say that, but
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I would imagine more regularly than you imagine.
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Yeah, because if you're caring about what things, if you're caring about reality and
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you give a shit about, yeah, absolutely.
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You actually have principles, then you wind up realizing, oh shit, yeah, I care more about
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doing things the right way or the legal way than I do about lying about it.
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It's very imaginable that a conservative and a liberal could come together on the discussion
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about whether or not this, the kid in the DC sniper case deserves a new trial based
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on the Supreme Court decision.
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Absolutely.
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The conservative could agree or disagree with that proposition.
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Liberal could agree or disagree with that proposition.
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But there's no reason why a group interested in individual rights, no matter the political
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alignment, couldn't agree on that case.
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Absolutely.
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It's just shady shit that Barnes is up to.
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Yeah.
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And that's because I would hazard a guess that if you are going to actually give a shit
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and you're going to litigate these cases and you want them to go to, if you want to go
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to trial, then that means in order to win your case, you have to accept a shared reality.
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Both sides agree on what the facts are.
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And so then you find out so much of ideology and all that shit, it doesn't apply because
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it's actually not real.
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You know, like so many of these grifter cases, they're fundamentally imaginary.
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Right.
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They're using public opinion.
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Exactly.
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It's the court of public opinion versus the court of court.
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Exactly.
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And that's all this game is.
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Yeah.
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And that sort of free America law center would be incredibly effective in terms of the court
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of public opinion.
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One hundred.
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It would be something that could be used as like just an intense media arm of these, these,
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I don't know, I don't know what to call them, the dabblers in extremism.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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And the centers that do side with the ACLU, of course, they're not going to draw in those
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same level of donations because sometimes they do things that the propaganda says are
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wrong.
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Maybe.
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Maybe not.
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But I'm not sure if Barnes' ventures would be more successful or not.
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I think this is doomed, quite frankly, but but it also scares me because on the off chance
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that it's not doomed, it could be a very, very dangerous organization.
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Yeah.
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So in this next clip, Barnes talks about how the left, you know, they virtue signal.
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Sure, we do.
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And I take some issue with this.
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The second thing the left does well is because virtue signaling matters so much to donors
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and contributors on the left.
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They're willing to fund, crowdfund liberal causes in ways that generally conservatives
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just haven't.
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Most conservatives want some value for what they give their money for.
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Well, that makes it difficult to be able to crowdfund for lawsuits where the only value
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is the knowing the lawsuit's going to move forward.
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So the goal was to create a legal organization that serves the needs and meets the interests
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of people all across the political spectrum to fight the three Ds, deplatforming, defamation,
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deep state whistleblowing, to equalize and democratize access for all of those people.
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So we created Free America Law Center, which people can look up, find out more online about
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at freeamericallawcenter.com.
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And the goal was to not make it as donor driven or as contributor driven, but to make it membership
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driven.
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So to make it subscription driven.
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So people sign up for a monthly subscription at a very affordable, accessible rate, seventeen
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dollars and seventy six cents a month to recognize our great American patriotic history and to
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help create an organization that I feel like that price is virtue signaling.
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Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
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That price is not that price is not based on the free market, Dan.
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It certainly seems to be it's there to send a signal to others of something that you find
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value.
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What the Ds do is they virtue signal with their their crowdfunding and me, I am a patriot
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based on the price that I'm putting on this.
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Man.
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Yikes.
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I love the inverted reality of people thinking that all the causes that we donate to have
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no value and yet they would donate to fucking Barnes because they want to get something
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for their money.
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Well, you'll see.
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That's insane.
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You'll see a little bit later the pitch that he has.
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Actually, I'll go ahead and skip to that clip now, because you think that you're not going
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to get anything for that 1776.
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I believe I will.
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You're fucking wrong.
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OK.
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We're providing actual direct benefits to people.
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So people that are monthly subscribers get to vote on what kind of cases get pursued.
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They also get weekly podcasts where only members get to ask questions of lawyers and legal
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experts to answer those in Q&A podcasts.
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They get weekly books that are going to be a Bill of Rights Bookly series.
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They'll be issued at least monthly to people that are self educated or self armored in
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law, can better protect their own rights and defend their rights.
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So we're giving them tangible value that's personal to them, while at the same time trying
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to create a law center that can equalize and democratize access to the law against big
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media and big tech.
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How fucking weird is it, the idea that Barnes is like, if you donate, you can vote on what
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cases all take?
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That's bananas.
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That doesn't seem like it's principle driven.
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That is ridiculous.
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That is absolutely ridiculous.
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That seems weird.
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That is that you can't even parody that.
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Good on him for doing a podcast, though, and having e-books.
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Yeah, whatever.
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That's at least like that's something.
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Yeah, I suppose.
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Yeah.
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People are interested in hearing his pressured voice.
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Then enjoy that podcast.
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Yeah.
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Voting on cases is troubling.
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Oh, no, that's I can't imagine that gamifies the entire.
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Absolutely.
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And it really doesn't seem like a good way to run a law center.
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Did he not just do none of these people learn the lesson of Bode McBove face?
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I haven't learned that lesson.
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Bode McBove, whenever you are like, I'm going to open this up to the Internet to make a
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good decision.
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Oh, and not turn it into a fucking joke.
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People will make it a joke.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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There is that tendency.
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But, you know, you got to do something and maybe this is a bad idea, but you have to
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do something because there's a conspiracy going on that Robert Barnes is fighting against.
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And what's happening is big tech and big media are colluding in ways to suppress and censor
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dissident voices using their superior lawfare and their superior legal acumen and talent
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on their side of the aisle because of their ceaseless bench and endless retainers.
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This is exactly what Kirk Lyons told the Aryan Nations World Congress in 1988.
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They're against like they're against us in our dissident voices, the patriots.
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It's exactly the same rhetoric that is being used as a justification for starting the Patriots
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Defense Foundation.
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Similarly, what you have in the, you know, Louie, I'm sorry, William Luther Pierce's
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letter about Kirk Lyons, the weenie, he's going to help us create something to help
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us in the same way the the the Jews have done for our enemies.
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Sure.
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You know, they have that same thing.
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We need something that will do for us what the the left has done for, you know, the people
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we're against.
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Yeah.
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And that like I get that he's not saying the same things, but the structure is the same.
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The argument is the same.
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And a lot of the people that seem to be adjacent to the worlds that Barnes is swimming in.
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Right.
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Are fucked up.
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Stefan Molyneux went to Poland to became a white nationalist.
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Yeah.
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I'm sitting here talking to him.
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I can't take the context out of like I can't hear this without thinking of Kirk Lyons because
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the parallels are too strong.
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Right.
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I mean, I would, you know, to get back to our earlier conversation, though, Lyons was
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dealing with the founder of the Aryan Nation and Barnes is dealing with Cassandra Fairbanks
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and Alex Jones.
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You know what I'm saying?
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No, totally.
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But I think it might be more profitable.
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It's absolutely more.
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I think it might be a smarter thing to do.
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Oh, of course.
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And not least of which it gives you way less attention.
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But give it give it more time and who knows what it could be.
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I don't know.
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So in this next clip, Barnes decries the downfall of the left as being, I don't know, noble
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or heroic or something.
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The media just seems out of control in their reputational attack.
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And you know, the left used to be like, well, you know, the David versus Goliath stuff will
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always side with David because Goliath has so much power.
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But now you see the left really siding with the giant corporations intact, with the giant
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corporations in media against the little guys who don't seem to have any particular capacity
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to push back against these lies.
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Absolutely.
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I see it as sort of a parallel pattern, that what's happening in defamation and deplatforming
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is also happening with Antifa which is sort of a violent mechanism of trying to enforce
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orthodoxy and speech, limit what people can say, limit, scare people into self-censorship.
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I mean, the most effective form of censorship is self-censorship.
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And so if you can get people afraid of, man, if I say that, I might get sued, I might lose
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my job.
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I mean, there's a guy representing the pre-American Law Center is going to support that it was
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just a working at a gas station and he got fired just because he asserted political beliefs
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related to Trump because some other customer created a storm about it.
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I don't know who the person Barnes is talking about because the current cases section in
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the Free America Law Center website doesn't include them.
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The only cases listed there are the Covington kids, a former FBI agent he's representing,
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and Alex Jones.
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Like I said, Alex is not listed on the current roster of cases on Barnes' website, which
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I think it means he's shifting it over, but we'll see.
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I'm guessing that Barnes, the client that he's discussing here is the guy who worked
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at a gas station in Naperville, just outside of Chicago, who was not just fired for supporting
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Trump.
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This guy was caught on video questioning the citizenship status of a customer and then
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telling her that people needed to, quote, go back to their country.
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He tells the woman, quote, you're in the wrong country.
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And as she's leaving threatens her, quote, ice will come, which is a real cool indication
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that normal folks are keenly aware that ice is basically a racial stormtrooper force.
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This of course was on the heels right after Trump's whole send her back thing.
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So I guess you could kind of argue that this is showing support for Trump.
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I think it's very telling that he's reframing that as expressing a pro-Trump position.
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Totally, because that's how these things go.
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The real incident is a blatantly racist and offensive interaction that's beyond the pale,
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regardless of a person's political beliefs.
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I've managed retail outlets, and if someone was acting even close to the way that guy
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did towards a customer, they'd be fucking gone.
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Even if it wasn't about race, even if it wasn't about her citizenship status, you don't get
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into fights with customers, pure and simple.
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If you're a clerk at a gas station, I regret to say this, and I speak as someone who worked
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at multiple gas stations in my life, you are insanely replaceable, and no business should
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feel any need to keep guy who likes to argue with customers on the payroll.
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That's bad business.
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I'm not sure if this is the case that Barnes is talking about, but I would kind of bet
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that it is, based on the details that he provides, and because video of the exchange between
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the clerk and customer went around on social media, so it plays into that part of Barnes'
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platform.
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This is not a case of someone who's fired for supporting Trump, but that's how racism
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and being a shitty employee are whitewashed.
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If this really is the case that Barnes is talking about, it clearly shows what his intentions
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and strategies are.
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You take people like this who do blatantly intimidating racist things, and then you reframe
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it, repackage it, as some sort of a violation of the offender's rights.
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And by virtue of that, you hope to gum up the process or intimidate people out of dealing
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with these sort of outbursts rationally.
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The person has to have no idea that Barnes is just exploiting them for money, right?
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Like the person who got fired from the gas station-
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They'd probably get a cut.
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Do you think so?
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I don't know.
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I don't know how this works.
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I'm imagining that how that works is Barnes goes to them and convinces them that they
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have a case, and that if they stick with Barnes, they're going to wind up winning a lot of
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money or whatever it is.
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I wouldn't be too surprised if that guy's an Info Wars listener, who's heard Barnes
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on it a bunch and reached out to him.
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Oh, that's a good point.
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I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised by that.
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It would seem strange for Barnes to reach out to him, but again, I wouldn't put that
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past it.
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I don't know how any of this stuff works.
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I don't know what anybody's expectation is outside of we create, or at least we try to
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work on creating an atmosphere where our bigotry is legally defensible, or it's legally defendable
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to the point where people will resist pushing back on it.
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They want to create a fear of stepping up to and treating publicly abusive racist outbursts
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as actually protected speech.
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Well, they wanted to become that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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So I just don't understand how the guy at the 7-Eleven doesn't realize that Barnes is
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exploiting him completely, but he's going to go home at the end of all of this.
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He's going to go home with nothing and having achieved nothing, but he might have more than
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he would otherwise.
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He lost his job.
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What the fuck else?
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Why not?
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Let's go and see if we can make a couple bucks off the gas station chain.
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Fair.
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You know, you threaten them enough, you have an intimidating enough lawyer, you might be
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able to make a settlement out of it, and it's not like he's getting nothing, you know?
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Barnes will get a bit of it, but he'll get something.
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I don't know, we'll see.
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I don't know.
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I used to work at gas stations.
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I was pretty dumb.
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I might have gone along with something like this, but then again, I wouldn't have done
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that to a customer at the beginning.
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Right, right, right, right.
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I don't know.
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Because of all this, because of the nature of what this organization really is geared
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towards, Stefan knows that this is good.
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This is something I'm into.
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Well, I obviously have somewhat of a personal motive in supporting somebody or a group who's
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out there trying to balance things like the SPLC, which to me has become a completely
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ideologically driven institution that lists people like PragerU and me and other people
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who are just making arguments and doesn't list Antifa.
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I mean, these are just crazy standards, and I think there is this general sense.
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You know the rule, right?
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Any organization that's not specifically anti-left gets progressively more left over time as
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the activists get in to enact their collectivist, anti-free market, anti-freedom agenda.
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And so I really like the idea, you know, the SPLC to me is beyond reforming, but having
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a counterweight to it I think is really important because it really is such a one-side battle
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at the moment.
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No doubt about it.
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There are tons of counterweights already.
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If you think that they're not doing a good enough job, that's the conversation you need
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to have, as opposed to these things don't exist.
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This is really an important distinction to make because the way they frame this is all
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like there is nothing.
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It's a wide-open wilderness on the right side of public law.
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We need it because these liberals have dominated this space and they've, you know, they're
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superior lawcraft and lawfare, and that's just not the case.
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That is absolutely not the case.
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It's dishonest framing, and when you frame something dishonestly, it means that you're
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up to something, generally.
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Does he, God, I've asked this question I don't know how many times.
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Stephon Molyneux, does he actually believe his own bullshit?
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Because what he just said was so nonsensically just imaginary.
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Everything he's talking about is fictitious.
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Except for his need for something like Barnes' organization.
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Well, yeah, there's that.
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Yeah.
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That's absolutely fair.
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But it's just like that entire sentiment was gaslighting.
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Well, it's the same thing with like what we were talking about earlier.
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Like the ACLU, it defends rights that these people don't believe should be defended.
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So therefore, it's a terrible organization taken over by globalist leftists and collectivist
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agenda and far-left activists, blah, blah, blah, ba-do, ba-do.
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And the same thing with the SPLC, you have like they watch out and like they cover extremists
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on the right.
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They're one of the forces that actually takes the time and researches a lot of these people
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who are really dangerous.
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And people like Stefan Molyneux don't get a pass from them.
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He went to Poland and declared himself a white nationalist.
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Like he is on the radar deservedly.
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And that's one of the most generous ways I can describe Stefan Molyneux is saying he
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went to Poland and became a fucking white nationalist.
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He's way worse than that.
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Oh, infinitely.
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So the SPLC exists as a place that doesn't give a pass to these people who want to get
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a pass.
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Don't pay attention to that shit.
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And Prager, you and me, we're just having ideas.
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Fuck.
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We just make arguments.
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That's what I'm saying.
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Yeah.
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He has to be aware that he's so full of shit.
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But it's all the same game.
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That idea, like I'm just making arguments as opposed to what you're really doing.
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I just had debates.
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It's the same thing that's very similar to this whole sort of masquerading what's really
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going on.
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You know, like saying that this gas station person is just supporting Trump.
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It's the same whitewashing.
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It's the same.
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It's a strategy that people like this use.
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And it's essential to their ability to operate because they went around and were like, hey,
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I am going to defend this guy who said a bunch of racist shit to a customer when he was working
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at a gas station and he got fired because of it.
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And I think it's great that he said things like this.
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And we should all be thrilled about minimum wage employees getting racist with customers.
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That is the sort of thing that society needs.
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No one's given money to that.
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No.
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Except for the really hardcore racists.
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Right.
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And that's not a big enough pool for you to run a fucking law center with.
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So you need to pretend that it's a Trump issue.
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You need to pretend that it's the persecution of the noble, sensible Trump voter because
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that's a much larger audience from which to fish for donations.
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Right.
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You masquerade things.
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No one's going to be mad about Stefan just making arguments.
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It's a fucking asshole.
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You have to hide.
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God, I hate him so much.
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You have to hide because presenting what you really do sincerely and honestly is a losing
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game, which is a bad game, which is why they lose in court.
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Exactly.
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So in this next clip, Barnes says something positive about Morris Dees, the founder of
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the Southern Poverty Law Center.
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Morris Dees in the time?
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Yeah.
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The founder of the SBLC, Morris Dees, I'll give him credit.
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He was originally started off in a credit in a certain way.
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He started off as a Klan lawyer in the 1960s, and then he figured out there was more money
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if he was suing the Klan.
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It wasn't driven out of ideological predilection or anything else.
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What is that giving him credit for?
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I don't know.
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I'll give him some credit.
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It's so weird.
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Some credit goes to he did used to defend the right.
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He did used to defend the right.
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Oh, the Klan.
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Well, I said that quietly.
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Oh, no, I said that loudly.
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Shit.
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Is it like, I don't understand what's being applauded because it could be that he was
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originally a Klan lawyer.
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Is that it?
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I don't know.
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Is it that Dees decided to start suing the Klan?
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Is that what he's applauding?
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It doesn't feel like it.
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No.
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No.
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Dees' decision to be anti-Klan wasn't motivated by being against the Klan just by it being
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a financial consideration.
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None of the options seem good.
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All of them seem to be Barnes saying Dees sucks, but to his credit, he wasn't really
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against the Klan.
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He was just following the money.
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Yeah.
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Basically what he said is like, I think what he thought he was saying was that previously
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he was non-ideological or not.
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Like he didn't pick sides.
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I guess.
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I don't know.
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I guess that's what he thought.
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He thought he was saying that he didn't pick sides, I guess.
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That might be the most generous reading.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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What he said was he's a Klan member.
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Morris Dees is called a Klan lawyer because in 1962 he represented a Klansman named Claude
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Henley who was on trial for attacking the Freedom Riders.
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He was 26 years old at the time and less than two years out of law school and has been very
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publicly clear that he regrets taking that case.
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His subsequent legal history does seem to indicate that sometime after the trial he
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had a bit of a change of heart as reflected by the cases that he took on and the fact
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that he supported George Wallace's campaign in 1958, but by 1972 he was backing George
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McGovern.
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Dees is a gigantic target for the right wing because he's completely destroyed a lot of
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white supremacist groups.
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He's won large settlements against the white Aryan resistance, the United Klans of America
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and the Aryan nations.
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People on the really fucked up parts of the right wing know they can't complain about
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him on the merits, which is to say they can't just come out and say that they hate that
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he financially crippled white supremacist groups.
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So they have to take the alternate approach.
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You try to taint his motives, you try to say like, well, he was originally a Klan lawyer,
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all that stuff, et cetera.
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It's all an attempt to attack without revealing why you're mad at him.
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What I think, you know, I think his political work is very important.
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It should be pointed out that Dees himself might not have been all that great a guy.
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And he was fired by the SPLC earlier this year.
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And many have suggested that it stemmed from internal harassment complaints.
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You know how I know about that?
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It certainly isn't from Barnes or Alex or any of these right wing truth tellers.
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It's from the fucking New York Times, the bastion of liberal media, the world where
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you dare not criticize the darlings of the left, a world where the SPLC runs the show.
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They extensively covered the firing and all the employee complaints.
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Meanwhile, all I hear from these right wing dicks is the same.
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His civil rights work is invalid.
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Claptrap.
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It's all bullshit.
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Like, there are valid complaints to be made about Maurice Dees as a human and even the
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like we talked about earlier, the institution of the SPLC.
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But the complaints that I hear out of these people is never that right.
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But at the same time, they can't talk about the legitimate complaints because out of one
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side, they'd be like, see, look at how bad this guy is and the other side of them out
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there like, employers should be able to do whatever they want to their employees, and
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so on and so forth.
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That is a functional problem of their other positions.
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So in this next clip, Barnes, I think, really fucks up.
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90% of the people they list on their so-called hate watch are not haters.
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They're just different dissident views that are often within the political mainstream
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on the political right.
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None of them are racist.
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It's extraordinary the number of people they're putting on there and the list they were putting
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on there.
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So I think that Barnes might have said the quiet part of the loudest thing.
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He claims that 90% of the people listed on the SPLC's hate watch are just, quote, different
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dissident voices that are often within the political mainstream on the political right.
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Here are some of the most recent headlines on hate watch.
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There's an article about the power struggle that's going on in the leadership of the anti-government
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militia the Three Percenters.
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There's an article about Beth Van Doyen, a woman running for Congress who is really into
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calling groups of Muslims, quote, hotbeds of Sharia.
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There's a couple articles about Matthew Q. Gerbert, the State Department official who
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was outed as an active member of white nationalist groups.
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There's an article about how many of the accelerationist elements in the white supremacist communities
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were responding to the El Paso shooting by emphasizing the need to kill important people
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instead of random folks at Wal-Mart.
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There's an article about how a member of an Arkansas white nationalist group who was arrested
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for beating up a gay man because he was gay also had previous hate crime convictions in
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the past.
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Legitimately, if you look at these articles and you think, well, that's basically mainstream
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right wing dissident voices, you're identifying the same problem I am.
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But you don't think it's a problem, right?
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That's not good.
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Well, you didn't talk about all of their organizations, Dan.
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You only brought up a few examples.
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See, 90 percent of them are all of those groups are like Americans for having a good time
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at places, and they're in the political mainstream right.
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Sure.
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That's what it is.
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They're in the political mainstream right.
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Sure.
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All they want to do is kick them out of the country.
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They don't want to hurt anybody.
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They're in the political mainstream right, Dan.
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They're not a hate group.
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I guess Barnes could actually maybe be talking about their extremist files, that section
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of the site.
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But he's just calling it hate watch because that's the catchy name that people remember.
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Yeah, he's just an ass.
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But that would be even worse for him, man.
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The people listed in the extremist files are really bad people.
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We could go through that list one by one and discuss how a lot of these people are either
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literal murderers who killed people for white supremacist causes or how a lot of them are
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outright Nazis.
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But instead, what I would like to do is I'd like to ask who Barnes thinks exactly are
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these 90 percent of people who are in the political mainstream on the right.
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That's the sort of thing that's really fun to say, and it plays really well with the
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right wing persecution complex, but if he actually means what he's saying, then he's
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tacitly saying that the mainstream of the right wing has been overtaken by white supremacists
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and fascists.
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Maybe that is what he's saying.
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After all, he's talking to a guy who went to Poland to become a white nationalist.
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Well, I think we've all realized that overtaken is not necessarily the word.
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Bubbled to the surface is probably a better way of putting it.
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What was always there is just now allowed to run rampant.
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I don't know if I wholly agree with you on that, but that's an argument for another day.
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So in this next clip, Barnes gets into theory.
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Oh, no.
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He has a theory about the media and what they do with depictions of folks.
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It also reminds me of what I studied when I was a scholarship student at Yale, which
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was studying cultural phenomenon in the 60s and 70s, where particular groups tended to
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be demonized within the popular media.
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And back then the target was interesting was you had both African-Americans and poor whites
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from certain parts of the country tend to be portrayed disproportionately in dangerous
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and frightening ways.
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And what the theory that I came up with that seemed to be an overlap is that the big cultural
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institutions tended to try to demonize those communities and constituencies that had a
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counter narrative to whatever the establishment narrative of the day was.
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And so if you came from a community that reflected that, that community tended to be demonized
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in the popular cultural representation.
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In the last 15 years, that has shifted heavily towards white men in general, but also at
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religious people.
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There's a disproportionate targeting, even like a show like Big Little Lies on HBO would
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represent this bad maternal character as being a religious figure.
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Well, sorry, let's be specific here.
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By religious you mean Christian.
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Exactly.
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Okay.
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Just because, you know, there are other religions out there that despite having some negative
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beliefs in general are almost universally portrayed with rapturous positivity, like somebody's
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either a cult member or a groupie.
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So let's just be real specific.
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So Barnes is trying to be coy with saying religious people and Stefan forced his hand
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to be clear.
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And you heard Barnes agreed.
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He's like, when Stefan says, let's be clear, we're talking about Christians.
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He's like, yes, absolutely.
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I didn't want to make it clear.
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I wanted to leave a little air of vagueness that I'm talking about white Christian identity
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here.
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This is what I'm defending.
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This is what I'm into.
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Alex would have been like, religion, good call, wink.
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Stefan Malin, who's like, I am free to be a white nationalist wherever I want.
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Yeah, I don't give a fuck.
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No one cares.
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I've been through the fire and everyone knows I suck.
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Let's talk about fucking Christian supremacy and white dominion.
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I mean, that really kind of in much of the same way that that clip where 90% of the people
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on hate watch is kind of, oh, that's revealing.
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That's fucking revealing too.
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The idea that what he's pushing is this idea that like, oh, everything is against whites
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and Christians.
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It's like, all right, see, I see what you're doing.
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Yeah.
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Can you imagine how, like, imagine being able to tie Barnes down and be like, okay, fine.
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Pick the 90%.
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Oh, I would love that.
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Pick the 90%.
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Pick out of all of those names.
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You give me 90% of them and we'll see.
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We'll fucking see who's in the political mainstream.
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And if you still believe they're in the political mainstream, obvious.
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That's what I'm saying.
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This is fun to say.
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And it works on Stefan Malin news podcast, but feet to the fire or whatever.
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No chance.
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No way.
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This doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
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It's just shit talk that appeals to the conservative victimhood narratives.
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It's a very, very marketable thing.
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Yeah.
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It doesn't stand up in a court of law.
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No.
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No.
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So we get further down this slippery road that we're on where we learned that it's all
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about Christianity and whiteness.
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Of course.
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Barnes starts talking about the Covington case that he is involved in.
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And I think he says some things that aren't true.
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It was really a sub motivation taking place in the Covington case.
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The message was, what are these institutions that are successful at resisting sort of the
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elite cultural liberal institutions of entertainment and education that are almost monopolized
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by the identitarian left?
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Well, that is places like religious schools and Catholic schools.
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They're one of the last repositories of independent education who, which will challenge the establishment
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narrative in a wide range of cultural context.
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So by trying to demonize Catholic schools, by trying to scare parents and saying, man,
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if your kid goes to a Catholic school, someday, maybe the New York Times will ruin your life
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just because he really goes to a Catholic school.
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That was really, in fact, there were writers for the New York Times who were planning on
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follow up hit pieces against Catholic schools across the country.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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Writers for the New York Times are planning a hit pieces that apparently didn't come out.
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I guess they stopped those.
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Maybe they weren't hit pieces to begin with.
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Maybe they were investigations.
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Jesus.
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I'm pretty baffled by, I mean, like the very idea that religious education, like I don't
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want to demonize it.
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I don't want to malign it.
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But presenting it as one of the only places where like free thinking is allowed is strange
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because there's an overlay of religion on it.
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So what you're saying, Barnes, let me ask you a question.
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One of the strictest and most dogmatic places that you could ever get an education is the
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last bastion for free thought.
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Sorry, I completely forgot everything I've ever learned about Catholic school.
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Apologies.
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Yeah, I mean, there's like, not to be too blunt about this, this is extremist shit.
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The presentation of like religious schools are the only place that give you a counter
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narrative to the mainstream that is trying to, essentially trying to brainwash you and
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create a collectivist dystopia where conservatives aren't allowed to say anything like that.
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This is extremist shit just presented in a lackadaisical kind of like matter of fact
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way that makes it seem like it's not as extreme as it is.
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This is insane.
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Yeah, I'm still not be, I'm still not able to draw this parallel that you're talking
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about with lions.
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I don't see any similarities between them whatsoever.
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There's probably none.
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So with this next clip, Barnes just lies.
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I mean, Jack Dorsey for Twitter said Twitter would be the free speech wing of the free
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speech party.
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Well, that's the biggest lie that anybody's told in the last 20 years because they become
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one of the key means of suppression and censorship.
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For example, if anybody goes to Twitter and tries to look up me, Barnes Law, they won't
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be able to find me unless they're already following.
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I've disappeared from the searches of Twitter.
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So they just, I guess apparently they took offense to me suing them a couple of times.
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I didn't follow Barnes.
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How long did it take you to find him?
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He's the first name that pops up if you Google Robert Barnes or Barnes Law.
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Ah, Dan, but what if you forgot that you weren't connected to wifi?
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Then it might take a little longer.
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It might be harder to find him.
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That's possible.
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Could be tough.
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But what he's saying is a lie.
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He is very findable on Twitter.
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Totally findable.
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Absolutely.
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And what's interesting about that is the argument that he's making.
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It proves the opposite because he's saying that I can't be found on Twitter.
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Oh, maybe they're mad at me cause I sued them a few times.
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You did sue them a few times and you're easily findable.
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That only serves to reinforce that Twitter is not like vindictively attacking you in
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any way.
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I could still find his Twitter super easily.
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Anybody listening could find it so fucking easily.
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It is not difficult and he's someone who if Jack was a petulant person who's just, uh,
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the capriciously throwing people off who had wronged him, then yeah, you would be number
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one.
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You've sued him.
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Yeah.
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Also he could and it wouldn't be censorship.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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He can do that.
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Yeah.
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That's fine.
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I do like him being like, Oh, that's one of the biggest lies that has happened in the
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last 20 years.
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And now I'm about to tell one bigger.
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I got that.
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I don't think it's bigger, but like I would say how I would look at Jack's statement is
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more like, I bet he met that when he said it.
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Yeah.
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I bet that was the goal.
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That was a goal.
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Yes.
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It was not a...
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I think, I think that when you're starting one of these, uh, tech startups, you probably
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have a really different idea of what it is and what it can be than when there's millions
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of users.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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I mean, I've seen a lot of conversations with Twitter, like we're going to allow free speech
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all over the place.
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Right.
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Once the logistics of what free speech entails and how people are going to abuse it, like
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once that starts to become real, you can't live up to the goals you set out for yourself
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at the outset.
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It's just not possible.
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Yeah.
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Failing, stating an idea and then failing to live up to it for any number of circumstances
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does not mean you were lying about your ideal.
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Right.
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I think Jack deserves criticism and sucks.
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For sure.
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But I don't think it's fair.
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I mean, you know what?
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Maybe he was lying.
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I don't know.
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That's entirely possible.
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But I don't think it's fair to just assume he's lying.
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In a court, you'd have to prove malice.
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Sure.
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Actual malice, which is a problem, and we're going to get rid of that.
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So we get back to like just Christian paranoia here in this next clip, and Stefan says some
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stuff that's just way out of line.
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Why is there all of this deliverance?
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What kind of redneck cliches about the South?
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Because the South is pretty Christian.
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Why is it that the coastal elites that generally are leftists or atheists or at least not Christians,
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why do they hate flyover countries so much?
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Because that's where the churches are.
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And when you sort of see this seething resentment towards Christianity, and of course, Christianity
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historically has stood between the leftist collectivists and their thirst for state power.
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I mean, that's straight out of the French Revolution.
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First thing they did was kill the priests or kill the nuns or rape and kill the nuns
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and so on.
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So those who seek power have a great deal of issue, and the church and the cross and
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Christianity stands in the way of their thirst for power, which is to me, as Ann Coulter
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has characterized, is pretty damn demonic, and it's kind of hard to argue against that.
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And so once people process just how much hostility there is, not just towards Christians, but
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to those with an anti-status mentality, there's Christians, libertarians, and so on, and me
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and others.
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And once you kind of understand that, there are people who are forming a human chain between
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the predators and the power they seek.
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Of course they're going to aim at people like us.
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They can't take us on intellectually, so all they can do is create this fiery mode of negative
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language and hope that scares enough people away that we become irrelevant.
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Absolutely.
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Okay, why are you agreeing with that?
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Barnes is just doing his yes and shit.
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Barnes, Barnes, stop listening.
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Barnes totally stopped listening.
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100% Barnes stopped listening.
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I can't blame him.
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Stefan was on a bit of a rant.
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That was stupid.
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Every time somebody tells me that Stefan Molyneux is smart, I think in some ways yes, in the
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same way that somebody who knows Elvish is good at languages.
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You know?
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They absolutely are.
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You're smart, but you're living in a fictitious world.
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In Lord of the Rings' world, you are a fucking genius, Stefan Molyneux.
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In the real world where we exist, you're an idiot.
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You're so stupid.
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I stand by my earlier comments about him being really smart in as much as he has a high level
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of mental processing power.
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Yes, I agree with you.
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He's functionally, or he's technically smart, but functionally an idiot.
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Yes.
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That's kind of the way I'd look at it.
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I guess the Elvish thing works.
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We don't need to sit here and spend a lot of time Jordan rehashing how Christianity
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served as an excuse and a moral rationalization for colonialism and the period where countless
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indigenous peoples were massacred and had their lands taken from them and their resources
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stolen, creating ripple effects that still plague much of the world to this day.
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I don't know how Stefan defines tyranny or oppression, but if it doesn't include that
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experience, he's talking about something else.
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When you look around the world and you try and figure out who some of the major not good
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folks are who are running governments, you kind of get the sense that Stefan's notion
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that Christianity is somehow resistant to state oppression is like, that's complete
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bullshit.
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Nonsensical.
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Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban is a Christian, though he's been a little bit wishy
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washy about the religious stuff lately.
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Duterte in the Philippines is identified as Christian.
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These guys complain all day about South Africa, but their president Cyril Ramaphosa is a Christian.
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Slobodan Milosevic was a Christian, and that dude faced charges of crimes against humanity
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at The Hague.
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Yeah.
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There are plenty of world leaders who are up to no good who are Christian, but beating
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up on Christianity isn't the point.
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There are leaders of all religious persuasions who do bad things and can lead their countries
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down tyrannical roads.
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It's not exclusive to any religion or sect.
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When you completely ignore that this is an unrelated variable and continue to lionize
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Christianity and demean other religions based on that falsehood, it really demonstrates
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that you're not really into the avoiding tyranny part of things.
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It's more that you're soft pitching a social theocracy.
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Dan, do you know what is real tyranny?
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What?
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The Muslims in Jerusalem in 1000 AD.
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That was real tyranny because they wouldn't just let the British thousands of miles away
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have it.
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I think they would...
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That's tyranny, Dan.
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I think I could hear that argument coming from...
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So the more Christian anxiety here coming up in this next clip.
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Look at the 1930s communist model.
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They're trying to replicate that model, which is get involved, like control human relations
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and advertising departments as part of your popular front, infiltrate those institutions
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to help reshape people's thought prospects.
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And as you look at all of that, they've mostly been wildly successful, the left has, at taking
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over almost every form of education that exists in the United States, almost other than religious
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parochial schools, taking care of almost control over almost all of TV and Hollywood and major
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books and almost all of the news industry, with the sole exception really being the church
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as the last repository of traditional beliefs against their status and sort of revolutionary
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mindset.
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And it's a revolutionary mindset, it's a dangerous mindset.
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It's one that attacks tradition, attacks ideas simply because of their associations with
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either the past or with religious traditions, particularly Christian religious traditions,
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because they see them as their biggest obstacle to thought control.
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The left really thinks if we could get rid of churches, like the communists were able
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to do in the 1930s in places like Russia, though they weren't able to fully succeed,
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but partially succeed, that that's the best way to be able to have complete thought control
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over how people think and perceive the world.
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Ain't nobody trying to get rid of churches.
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Do these people not, are we adding Catholicism?
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Are they adding Catholicism now?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Because they're from the same group of people who used to murder Catholics for the very
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act of being Catholic, right?
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They're from that ideological history.
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So now they're just throwing Catholics in willy-nilly, because fine.
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I don't know if it's willy-nilly, it's just we need to grow the ranks.
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Sure up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's more like we can't afford to alienate Catholics now.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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We used to have a great time alienating Catholics, but now it's all white hands on deck, you
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know what I'm saying, Dan?
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Now, now, I still hate the Pope.
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Oh, of course, well, he's evil.
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He's a globalist.
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But he's thousands of miles away.
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Right.
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All these Catholics are down the way.
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No Catholics, but the Pope is still a demon.
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God, these people are so fucking stupid.
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Why is it that they get to destroy the world?
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I don't know.
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Maybe it won't work.
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This is turned now, like this episode and this conversation that Stefan is having with
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Robert Barnes has turned towards the natural place that it was destined to go.
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And that is like, okay, I'm expressing that the real threats are the threats against white
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identity and Christianity.
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Yep.
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Those are the things that I'm going to focus on with my law center.
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That's all I want.
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Or at least that's my guiding principles.
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I am going to be the guy who you go to whenever you infringe on a gay person's rights and
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you feel like you should have.
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Pro straight white male first, pro law second.
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That seems to be the space he's carving out for himself.
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And you can hear by how much this turns into a like Christianity is the only thing that
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matters.
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It's the last bulwark against tyranny and all right, man.
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So they get into some real stupid territory after this.
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But it's still within this dissertation that's going on about how Christianity is under attack.
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And man, this is silly.
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There are two areas where you have major pedophilia scandals, aspects of the Catholic church,
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but the other was disproportionately Hollywood, but only one has been extensively investigated.
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One has been extensively covered.
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Only one has been extensively prosecuted in the legal arena, particularly civil suits
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and criminal cases.
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It's been the church has been the focus.
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That's absurd.
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There has been a great deal of focus on Hollywood.
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Now I would argue that one of the reasons that the Hollywood stuff has been a little
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bit more difficult is that people who come from the same places as Robert Barnes may
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be right for similar publications, have turned that into a weird satanic panic thing.
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There's a lot of distractions with the pizza gate stuff and all of that world that is taken
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away from any kind of real focus on this and it creates distractions and it creates expectations
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that can't be lived up to.
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It creates a false version that makes it look like real investigations or cover-ups.
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And that isn't the media's fault.
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That's your side's fault.
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That's Alex and his associates' fault.
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That is something that you will never be able to achieve.
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The idea that everybody is involved in a massive blood drinking child sacrifice party, that
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is not something you're going to ever prove.
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And because you can't, you'll always look at it as like, well, they never really got
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to the bottom of it.
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And you know what they do with the Catholic church?
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Because they only want to take down the church.
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It's not about protecting kids.
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It's about attacking Christianity.
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I find it very offensive for, especially for these people to grift on the Catholic church.
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Because there's a grift, I mean, grift about the Catholic church's immeasurable number
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of abuses over an incomprehensible length of time.
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Not least of which, because that's not a thing that can be partisan.
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You can't do that.
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Well, it shouldn't be.
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You know, it's like, and it doesn't even, like, what are you talking about?
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White religious people are the, like, you're attacking, I hate, it doesn't make any sense
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from anybody.
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Nope.
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It's awful.
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So if you wanted to make less sense, Robert Barnes here has an example of something that
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shows the distinction between how people react to Hollywood and to the priests in the Catholic
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church.
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And I would say this is one of the more ludicrous comparisons I've ever heard.
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Try to reinstate people like the director, James Gunn, who got put back in, even though
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he made comedic jokes that normally would have been totally inappropriate if he'd, say,
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been a Catholic priest.
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So the amazing dynamic of the inconsistency in hypocrisy and duplicity revealed that their
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true agenda was not the protection of children.
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Ah, yes.
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What if James Gunn was a Catholic priest and he took to Twitter to make horrible jokes?
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Really?
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Ah, yes.
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Really?
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He's taking, that's his, that's his smoking gun right there.
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I mean, it's a little weak.
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That is, that is dumb bullshit, Barnes.
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Barnes, I'm taking away all the good works I have ever exhorted you for.
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Bad work, Barnes.
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Bad work, Barnes.
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Yeah, what if James Gunn was a priest?
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He would have been treated differently if he was a fucking priest.
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Good work, Barnes.
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Great.
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And that was a sarcastic good work, Barnes.
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Also, I will say that like James Gunn's situation is kind of ineligent, un-analogous, because
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no one has ever had like a priest in the Catholic Church scandal where they tweeted something
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fucked up.
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Right.
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That's not been the case.
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Yeah.
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You can't really draw parallels between them.
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You show me that the Catholic priest who treats something really fucked up, and then we'll
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talk.
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Then we'll talk about how the reactions are different.
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You know what?
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Also, let's show me not just the Catholic priest who fucked up and tweeted something
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weird, but the Catholic priest who fucked up and tweeted something 10 years ago that
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was unearthed by a right-wing fucking lunatic asshole trying to take him down specifically
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as a goddamn troll operation, then blown out of proportion.
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The whole thing.
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The whole thing.
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Fair enough.
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Give me one Catholic priest situation like that.
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Then we can gauge reactions and how they're different.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So, Barnes believes some interesting things about the First Amendment.
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Get rid of it?
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No, he seems to be for it, but he has a slightly different interpretation of it than I think
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most people do.
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Big media and big tech platforms using that power of those platforms to target certain
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people really solely because of their belief systems, to suppress and censor speech, thought
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and ideas, and mostly not to prevent me or you from talking as preventing the audience
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from hearing this.
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That's what free speech is really all about, is protecting the audience's rights and respecting
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the audience's rational capacity to make good decisions and good judgment, their moral capacity
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to make good decisions and good judgments.
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That's what the left doesn't trust.
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It doesn't trust the ordinary person, the ordinary human beings' ability of thought
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and conscience to process information to make good and wise decisions.
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That's why they have to suppress and censor speech.
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So he believes, it appears, that the First Amendment entitles you to an audience.
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Yes.
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Which is absurd.
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No, it does.
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No, that's crazy.
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It's the rights...
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Or infringing on the rights of the audience, which I am, of course, entitled to.
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Right.
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But if you use the Alex Jones example, the audience isn't affected.
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Alex, you can still find wherever you want.
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So even under his broad definition of the First Amendment, Alex is not being oppressed
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at all.
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He has his website.
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You can still find his shit wherever you want.
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It's almost like Barnes doesn't respect the audience to go out and find it on their own.
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Wow.
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Interesting.
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It's almost like Barnes is the one who disrespects his audience by saying that they're absolutely
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incapable of Googling Alex Jones and Infowars.com.
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Right.
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And the other problem that I have is this idea of they don't trust the audience to make
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a decision, hear these things and make a decision.
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Like the classic example of the limitation of free speech is you can't yell fire in a
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crowded building.
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Of course.
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Right?
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And the opposite would be you can yell fire because if you get in trouble for yelling
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fire in a crowded building, what you're doing is you're not trusting the other people in
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that building to make a sound moral decision about whether or not there's a fire.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Right?
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That person, the audience there is capable of knowing instantaneously when hearing fire
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whether or not there is or is not a fire.
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Right.
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Right.
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If I don't smell fire, I'm not going to move from my seat, asshole.
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You are showing a rank distrust and disrespect to the people in that theater if you get the
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person in trouble just for yelling fire.
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All he did was try and trick hundreds of people into doing something silly.
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I don't understand.
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What he's putting on people is absurd.
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Yeah.
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I don't even know how to describe it.
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It's just such a strange way to look at things.
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It is such a fascinating...
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It doesn't matter what I do.
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You must respond.
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Yes.
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I know.
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And also the fire in a crowded theater thing is a really interesting analogy when you actually
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like apply it to what he's saying is in a way, I don't trust these people's instant
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reaction to this guy screaming fire because that guy could be a bad actor.
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He could be a bad faith actor.
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And in a split second, he is influencing your emotional behavior, bypassing your rational
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thought processes, and influencing you to act in a way that is detrimental to your own
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benefit.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Well, that's what Barnes is.
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And that's what he's doing.
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Well, it's on you to make a sound rational decision, whatever.
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It's almost like Barnes is daring the audience.
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I dare you to disagree with me.
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I don't necessarily agree.
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So at this point, they get into talking about Alex and his specific suit.
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And Barnes has some real stupid things to say about it.
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His main argument seems to be that this is like a focused attack and using Alex as an
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example because what they're doing is they're deplatforming him and then also defaming him.
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And when they defame him, he's not able to respond to the defamation because he's been
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deplatformed.
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This is silly.
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And I know it's silly because of the examples that he uses.
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But they're doing it in parallel, deplatforming and defamation, and doing it both ways.
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They're not only when they deplatformed him, they deprived him of his ability to fight
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back in the court of public opinion on those public platforms.
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So what they do, they started lying about him in the craziest ways.
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They said that he had child porn, completely false.
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Said he sent child porn to people's families, totally false.
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Said he sent child porn to lawyers, totally false.
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All of it was totally false.
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He had actually been the victim of somebody trying to plan it on his servers of people
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who hate him.
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So here's a guy who's a victim of an assault who is instead lied about throughout the entire
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world.
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And this was confirmed by the FBI, by the way.
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This is not just an opinion.
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The FBI confirmed that there were, if I remember rightly, correct me where I go astray of course,
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but there were unopened emails in defunct or unchecked email accounts.
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And if I understand it correctly, they were turned over as part of discovery.
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But this was not as it was portrayed.
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And as you point out, he can't really fight back because he's been silenced.
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Exactly.
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So they're able to lie about him with impunity.
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Here's the thing.
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You know how Stefan knows these things?
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Because it was fucking reported.
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Like this isn't, like no one was reporting the story that Alex sent these people child
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porn for shits and giggles.
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How did he get that information?
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That isn't how the media covered this.
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That's insider information, Dan.
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If you're complaining about people misunderstanding the story that was correctly reported in like
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the New York Times and Washington Post, then I don't know what to do.
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I don't know what to do for you.
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Your complaint is that people on Twitter are dumb.
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All right.
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Yes, that is the case.
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But if you're trying to, as Stefan is doing, and as Robert Barnes is presenting, they're
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presenting the idea that the media lied about this situation.
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And that is not true.
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I've read a bunch of articles about that situation because we had to cover it on this show.
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And all of them were clear about the circumstances.
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They were clear that the FBI had been involved and had said that it does not appear that
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Alex was aware of it.
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These were unopened.
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There was no culpability that was assigned to Alex Jones at best.
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I don't even know if this was in any of the articles or just what I took away from it.
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The criticism that could be launched is, how the fuck did he not look at what he was turning
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over to discovery?
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That is the sort of criticism that could be made.
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This is a sloppy handling of a legal case.
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That is what could be taken from it.
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If you want to talk about the interpretations that people could have of whatever someone
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might walk away from it if they didn't read the whole article, well, then you're just
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talking about Alex's business model.
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It's almost like you're not trusting the audience to read the entire article.
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Man, that's interesting.
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Infringing upon their free speech rights.
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So that's his example here of Alex being defamed and deplatformed.
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He wasn't defamed.
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The reports that I've read were very clear about the situation.
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And if he was being defamed, then him being on Twitter isn't going to help.
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He needs to sue those people.
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It doesn't matter.
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Anyway.
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I love the such like it's so stupid for him to be like, and no, there's no way for this
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information to get out that he didn't actually.
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The media controls him and they've silenced him.
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So there's no way that anybody could get that information out.
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OK, so it's let me repeat back to you exactly what I read.
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Quoting from the Washington Post.
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Yeah, Stefan Molyneux comes in with information he has about the case that he's read and reporting.
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Yeah, it's so stupid.
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So there's other lies that the media is defamed Alex about.
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Sure.
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There are people that said he lost the lawsuit that had nothing to do with it.
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There are people that said he published a book that had nothing to do with it.
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There are people that said he had antisemitic statements that he never did.
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He made a reference to a lawyer being a white Jew lawyer.
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And they refer to that.
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They change that to white Jew lawyer.
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You know, nothing to do with the guy when he was Jewish.
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There was no antisemitism at all.
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So the thing about Alex losing a lawsuit and writing the book No One Died at Sandy Hook
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was a complete fuck up.
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I think it was Market Watch, I believe, was the website.
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We've discussed this already.
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And Alex would be right to get in touch with them and insist that they retract and apologize.
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However, as we've seen, Alex pretends that it was the AP who put that headline out and
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has said over and over again he's contacted the AP and they stand by it and they won't
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retract it.
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And this is because they didn't write it and didn't publish it.
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A completely different website did.
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This is what Alex is grandstanding about suing the Associated Press about earlier in the
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episode, which is never going to fly and Barnes fucking knows that.
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This is a publicity stunt and you can tell because there's a clear problem that is real
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and they're attacking the straw man.
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The problem is super easy to resolve.
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All you have to do is contact Market Watch and if they refuse to correct it, then you
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sue them.
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If all you do is focus on the Associated Press, you're not interested in the correction.
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You're not interested in the real problem.
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You're interested in pretending that the largest news outlet in the United States is slandering
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you.
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The only reason to do that is to elevate and exaggerate your own victimhood.
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Mark my words, that lawsuit will never happen because any lawyer Alex could possibly have
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would know that it would be thrown out immediately and possibly even open up avenues for fines
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for a frivolous or malicious filing of a suit.
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It's absolutely ridiculous.
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Not if you are working for the Free America Law Center.
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That lawsuit is coming, baby.
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I don't know.
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I think even Barnes would know this opens up potential sanctions.
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That's why he hires shittier lawyers.
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As for the white shoe boy thing, I was always against the reading of Alex's words as Jew
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boy, but also Alex was really drunk when he said that and he was talking super unclearly
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in that rant.
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I can totally understand how someone could hear Jew boy in there, but I think if you're
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familiar enough with Alex's career and style, you would know he wouldn't throw around stuff
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like that.
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He has decades under his belt of walking a very fine line and even he is aware that calling
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someone Jew boy is going to raise more questions about his rhetoric than he wants asked.
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That's that's one of those things where I was.
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I understand why people would think, oh, him being drunk means he's more likely to throw
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out a slur otherwise, but at the same time, like performing wise there, I don't know.
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I'm pretty sure that this is almost consistent across the board, but there's a certain amount
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of muscle memory that takes over even if you're drunk.
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Like I've been drunk before and then I walk up on stage and do the same set that I normally
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do sober.
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It's just muscle memory.
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And then you walk down and you're back to being drunk again, which is why I don't think
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that even if Alex is really drunk, he's going to forget all of those performance things
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sure.
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But there's a difference between that, like going in autopilot or whatever, the performance
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state and then dealing with chaos while you're performing.
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Like if you started getting heckled, you might end up the drunkenness might come back.
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That's possible.
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That's a good question.
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And so I don't know if that works as well as it might feel like it for Alex's drunken
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ranting.
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But I still even like in his intoxicated state, I still I think he knows better that he's
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very used to knowing where approximate lines are.
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He tests those lines before he crosses them a lot of the time.
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Like we're seeing in 2013, there's a lot of calling everybody else actors before he jumps
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in and starts doing the Sandy Hook actor stuff.
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That's testing a line.
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That's like towing up to it and seeing how it feels before he commits to it.
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He would never just drunkenly like yell, this guy's a Jew boy.
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I just don't feel like it's in his character, even if there is a ton of anti-Semitism in
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his world view.
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For sure.
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I just don't think it makes sense.
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The transcripts that the plaintiffs made of that rant did say Jew boy, but even critics
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of Alex like Will Summer tweeted that that wasn't what he said.
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My overall feeling about this is that the transcription folks were incorrect, but I
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don't think it came from a place of malice or trying to defame Alex.
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I think Alex was fucking wasted screaming about the plaintiff's lawyer and putting a
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million dollar bounty on his head and it would be easy to make the mistake in the transcription
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if you're not really all that familiar with Alex, especially considering white shoe boy
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isn't a super well-known term.
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That's not a slang insult that gets thrown around by most people.
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I don't know if it's on the tip of a lot of people's tongues.
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You're doing the transcript, you're like, I mean, he's drunk, he's kind of slurring.
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You don't know what white shoe boy means.
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Because why would you?
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I still don't know what it means.
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It means like Ivy League upper crust kind of, I don't know, Richie.
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So anyway, we get back to Barnes defending Alex in the court of public opinion, if you
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will, on Stefan Molyneux's show.
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So he is the tip of the spear for lawfare as the victim and target of big media, big
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tech collusion to be able to completely suppress and censor him.
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And the reason is because he is the most independent media voice out there.
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People don't have to agree with him, but they always know I'm going to get an independent
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perspective when I listen to Alex Jones.
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Not only that, I'm going to get a perspective I likely don't hear almost anywhere else.
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I'm going to get information I don't hear from anywhere else.
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And I, the audience, should have the power and the choice to decide whether I agree with
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it or don't, whether I like it or don't, or whether I research it or don't.
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Smash cut to a 10-hour montage of Alex selling Ted Anderson's gold matched up with right
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before it saying there's going to be a financial collapse immediately.
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Oh, God.
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Yeah.
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Fuck off.
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Yeah.
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I love this idea that, like, they're trying to, like, package Alex as this, like, just
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rogue independent media guy who's like, get the fuck out of here, man.
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I don't like is I don't know, obviously, because I'm not in legal circles, but is lawfare thrown
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around a lot?
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I think it's a term that's used.
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Yeah, I've encountered it in my looking into things.
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Yeah.
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Because I'm not stoked about it.
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That's that's not how you, you know what?
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It's a word that Barnes uses a lot.
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And I've noticed from listening to a bit of him that he is also one of these guys who
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likes to speak in alliteration and rhymes.
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Yeah.
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He loves that.
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He says lies and libels all the fucking time.
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What a dick.
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Whatever he says, either word.
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It's both.
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Yeah.
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No.
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And it's just more like that kind of aggressive, like, we're always fighting a war.
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Everything is a war.
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Every word needs to be about war.
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So you should be like instead of lawfare, it should be law war.
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Yeah.
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Instead of info wars, it should be info law wars.
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Yeah.
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So in this next clip, it just gets grandiose about Alex's struggle.
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And I think it's a little silly.
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I've been proud to be a part of trying to defend Alex Jones in the court of public opinion.
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We are going to be bringing legal actions of all kinds to assert his free speech and
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free press rights.
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And his audience has been behind him.
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But his cases will likely shape the future of free speech and free press in America.
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Ultimately, some of them will end up in the U.S. Supreme Court.
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And that's why it's so important that he have the best representation, the best legal arguments
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made, the best defenses presented, because ultimately we are Alex Jones.
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Alex Jones.
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Whoa.
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Because that's how the law is going to treat us.
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And that's how big tech and big media will try to treat us in the future.
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I would say OK.
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Yeah.
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I would say I would say fine.
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I don't think that there's anything wrong with media and big tech treating me like Alex
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Jones.
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I'm 100 percent for it, in fact.
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From my from where I'm sitting, he's, you know, getting the consequences of his actions.
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If you can if I directly inspire harassment to go on for years and years and years, I
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think I would be I think I'd be fine with if somebody was like, yeah, you're going to
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need to be punished for that.
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And honestly, he's lucky that that's the only lawsuit that he's facing.
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No kid.
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I mean, it's not.
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But what I mean more is he's lucky that there's not 100 more because his style, his broadcast,
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what he does largely depends on slandering people.
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Not suing.
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Yeah.
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Like he's just straight up constantly lying about people and lying about things.
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Lying about things is a great thing that doesn't get you sued.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's a good point.
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Or lying about dead people who, you know, I guess they can't really sue you.
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So I think that when I look at all this, what I come away from it with is a large sense
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of suspicion.
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And I don't think that like I don't think that it's even possible at this point to know
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what Barnes is game is.
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But there's strong indications that, you know, he he's done some marquee cases in the past,
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like he was Wesley Snipes lawyer in that tax thing.
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Yeah.
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He's tried to latch on to a lot of these right wing grifters.
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And I think that this case, along with the Covington case, he's trying to really make
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a name for himself under the auspices of the Free America Law Center.
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Right.
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It's entirely possible that it's just a scam.
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It's entirely possible that he believes that these other conservative libertarian Christian
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public law offerings are not catered to the specific needs that he has.
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Yeah.
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And and if he presented his argument as these things do exist, but they're not working in
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the direction I want them to.
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So we want to create our own niche thing.
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I would find that argument a little bit more honest, since he's not presenting it like
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that.
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And all of this is just we don't have anything in the SPLC and ACLU are running over us.
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That duplicitous framing of it makes me really worried about what the real intentions are.
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So all I can do is take the pieces of information that are available to me and try and make
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sense of them.
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And this last clip doesn't help anything.
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Thanks a lot, Robert.
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A great deal of pleasure to chat.
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Absolutely.
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Proud and privileged to be on.
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He's proud and privileged to be interviewed by Stefan Molyneux, someone who is a creep
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of the highest order and a self-described empiricist who supports white nationalism.
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So I just don't I don't see a way around looking at this in the context that Barnes is offering
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me.
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I'm not I'm not trying to, you know, malign him in any way.
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I'm looking at his actions, comparing them to someone who did very similar things in
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the past and also looking at the ways in which he sees fit to publicize his venture.
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He's willing to you know, he promotes it on Alex's show, but we'll sit down with Stefan
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Molyneux and talk about it for an hour in a way that drifts deeply into Christian identity
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and white identity ideas.
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That to me is not unimportant.
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No, no, I would say so far, every every feel and interaction and every time I've heard
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anything about it and every time I've heard his voice, Barnes creeps me out.
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And he is he's running something on someone always.
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Yeah, I don't think he's ever I've never heard him in any situation where I feel like he
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was genuine on the open up.
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Yeah.
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He's always been like, you're running some game on somebody sometime right now.
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Yeah.
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Like, I just don't even know who it is.
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Yeah, that is definitely how I feel.
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And I think that a lot of our indications of like him trying to take over info wars
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could easily be like actually this.
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Yeah.
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Like it could be easily explained by him trying to set up this counter to the SPLC.
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Yeah.
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Now that it now that we've heard about that, that makes a lot more sense than him trying
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to run his own radio station of sure.
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And there's so many people now who are like, be tech is starting to take some of these
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things more seriously.
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And there are a lot of people who have like fascist outlets, a lot of people who have
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white supremacist outlets that are going to be needing a lawyer.
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Yep.
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And so creating a counter SPLC that caters to people who are of that ilk, it does seem
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like it could be a pretty profitable venture.
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So that's why I don't exclude the idea that he's just scamming.
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Yeah.
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And it's also, even if it is a scam, it's a dangerous scam.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, this took me quite off the path from actually looking at the fifth.
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I understand that Freeway Rick Ross was on the show and I didn't listen to that.
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But I guess since we went down this road a little bit, maybe we should stay in the present
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for Wednesday.
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We'll see.
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Yeah.
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Either way, we'll be back on Wednesday.
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Indeed we will.
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Until then, Dan.
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We have a website.
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We do have a website.
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It's knowledgefight.com.
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And also we are on some other social media accounts.
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We're on Twitter.
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Yeah.
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At go to bed Jordan and at knowledge underscore fight.
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Yes.
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And Barnes law.
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Yeah.
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You can look for it and it will appear unless you are not connected to wifi.
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In which case it will not appear.
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That is really important.
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We're also on Facebook.
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We are.
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And if you want to download our podcast, you can go to iTunes, go to anywhere you could
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leave a review.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:31.560)
That would be lovely.
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True.
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The best place to get it though.
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If you go to your local convenience store and I'm not going to buzz market for any specific
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one.
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Right.
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It's the one where a racist yells at you.
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Yes.
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If you're a minority.
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That's the most important part.
Unknown Speaker (02:16:46.639)
Yes.
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Go there.
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Look for the third can.
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You're going to see the first can of Coca-Cola and those little things.
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You're going to want to grab it.
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It's not in there.
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It's the two behind it.
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Right.
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You will be able to get our podcast from that can of Coca-Cola.
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There will be a flash drive inside it.
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Absolutely.
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Always.
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Always make a recommendation for a future.
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One of these.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Write this down.
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Are we taking pictures?
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Work in King's cake.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:12.000)
I think that's a good one.
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Flash drive into King's cake.
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Flash drive into King's cake has to be Mardi Gras.
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Write that down.
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Save it for February.
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Mardi Gras.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:22.399)
Gotcha.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:23.399)
Mardi Gras.
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February.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:25.399)
Yeah.
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All right.
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We'll be back.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:28.399)
But until then, I'm Neo.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:29.399)
I'm Leo.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:30.399)
I'm DCX Clark.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:31.399)
I am the Jesus lizard.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:32.399)
Andy in Kansas.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:33.399)
You're on the air.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:34.399)
Hello, Alex.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:35.399)
I'm a first time caller.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:36.399)
I'm a huge fan.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:37.399)
I love your work.
Unknown Speaker (02:17:38.399)
Thank you.
