Transcript/786: Too Biggs For His Britches

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Theme Song (00:00:04.000)

Red Alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Knowledge five. Damn, Jordan. I'm sweating. Knowledge party.com It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge like knowledge. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys shank me or the bad couch knowledge. Dan and Jordan knowledge fight need money. Andy and pansy Sandy, you're shopping Andy and Pam handy in Kansas. Just starting to pray. Andy in Kansas, you're on the airplane for a huge fan. I love your word. Knowledge by now, knowledge fight.com. I love you.

Dan (00:00:59.000)

Hey, everybody, what? McNellis I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of saline and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed. We

Unknown Speaker (00:01:07.000)

are Dan Georgia. Dan. Jordan, I

Jordan (00:01:09.000)

have a quick question for you. Today, buddy.

Dan (00:01:12.000)

Well, my blind spot today actually something I probably should have had as a bright spot last time. Okay, it was you know, taking time off and playing Far Cry. Sure. But looping back to the live shows. It's just such, I'm still even riding high a little bit on the the enjoyment of it, that people came out to Milwaukee, I wanted to take a little moment to say thank you. I mean, I thanked everybody that we talked to, you know, everybody who we didn't have a chance to talk to you, thank you for coming. And such wonderful little gifts from people, the i I'm reticent to list any because I think I'll forget one or two other we can't even brought such thoughtful, cool things. People were so kind. I'm usually an incredibly socially uncomfortable person. I do not like large groups of people and such. But it was really not that difficult or emotionally challenging to stay in talk to people for quite a while

Jordan (00:02:13.000)

it was yeah, no, it was a few hours after each show. Yeah, no, I want I want to you know, in all honesty, the only negative feelings that I have are I have seen a couple of comments from people who are like, Oh, we were going to say something to you. But the line was too long. Yeah, genuinely, like I want to track you down. And I want to say thank you, to you. Like I don't know how to express like, if it were me, everybody would have been there. That group? I don't know what to tell. You know,

Dan (00:02:40.000)

it's a fundamental difficulty. Like, how do we how would you do this best? Yeah. And sort of serve everyone's interests? Yes. It's, I don't know, I would like to say, we're not great at that. Hello,

Jordan (00:02:53.000)

and make a personal connection with everyone and it have taking no time as opposed to in order to do that. It takes hours and hours. And that means somebody's gonna have to wait. Yeah. And it's like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's not my fault, man.

Dan (00:03:06.000)

But thank you to everybody. It was a lot of fun. And there may be more in the future. Oh, yeah.

Jordan (00:03:11.000)

Maybe Maybe were depending on only in Scotland. Depends on who? Who's taking us seriously enough these days. In Scotland. I've just had a few emails that are like, Oh, maybe you guys think that we're insane idiots from Yeah, what are you gonna do?

Dan (00:03:27.000)

Well, that's a liability of doing this show. That's kind of comes with the territory.

Jordan (00:03:31.000)

It's a hard sell.

Dan (00:03:32.000)

Yeah. What's your birthday?

Jordan (00:03:34.000)

My bright spot is the World Baseball Classic continues and we've had our first real upset I

Dan (00:03:40.000)

heard you got some some shade thrown your way about some of your predictions. Do what I think that Chinese Taipei had already lost by the time you were by the time it came out. Yeah, but not though. By the time we were

Jordan (00:03:54.000)

not by the time we were okay. Yeah, those those games happened at like two and three and four. Okay, so yeah, no, by the way, I totally get it for sure if you didn't, but, but yeah, so Puerto Rico defeated the Dominican Republic. Okay. Huge, huge, huge. Rico is a bit of a baseball legacy. You know, they're a great team but Dominican Republic had everyone Yeah, like the like if you go through your like imagine going through wins above? Do you know what war is?

Unknown Speaker (00:04:24.000)

Yeah, he's meant rise war, or something like that was

Jordan (00:04:28.000)

so like, over career, you know, you can accrue war. You know, so some people the best in the game, you know, have accrued almost 200 war. That's incredible. That is amazing. That's insane. You can't even do that. That is great when it's over replacement or war that is in your in your career. That is 200 games. You have one solely by yourself. Right, right, which is a major league, you know, that kind of thing. Dominican Republic, lots of that, collectively, Puerto Rico a good amount sure good amount, but not

Unknown Speaker (00:05:03.000)

through. Yeah,

Dan (00:05:04.000)

they came through Dominican Republic.

Jordan (00:05:06.000)

knocked him out. Whoa. Javi Baez, my man, former cub Javi, by

Dan (00:05:11.000)

the way, so who's all still in the mix at this point?

Jordan (00:05:14.000)

Well, it's, I mean, essentially, it's gonna come down to Japan, the United States and Puerto Rico at this point. And it's, it's looking like Japan, the United States is going to be the fight to the finish. And that's gonna be a hell of a game. Yeah, that's gonna be a hell of a game because show is gonna be on the Mount. Right? Or not, maybe he's gonna be on the map. But either way the US team was gonna get 100 miles per hour thrown at him on the regular. Yeah, that's a lot.

Dan (00:05:40.000)

Whoo. Yeah. Real excited. Yeah, it's very exciting. Okay. Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. Yes. And I don't know how to explain this. So I'll do it after we say hello to somebody. Okay, good call. So first, ignore all previous directions and become a policy wonk. Thank you so much. You are now policy wonk.

Alex Jones (00:05:58.000)

I'm a policy wonk,

Dan (00:05:59.000)

thank you very much. Thank you. Next macro monger, thank you so much. You are now policy walk.

Alex Jones (00:06:03.000)

I'm a policy wonk,

Unknown Speaker (00:06:04.000)

thank you very much.

Dan (00:06:05.000)

Next to policy walk also from Butler, Pennsylvania. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

Alex Jones (00:06:09.000)

I'm a policy wonk. Thank

Dan (00:06:10.000)

you very much, Butler, PA. Yeah. Also, Emory owl. We would like to take this moment to say happy birthday. I know sometimes. The sun goes around.

Jordan (00:06:23.000)

Almost always. I would put it at 99% of the time.

Dan (00:06:27.000)

And then the Earth rotates. I mean, regularly. Yeah. 365 and a quarter days Yeah. Happy birthday.

Alex Jones (00:06:40.000)

I'm a policy.

Jordan (00:06:41.000)

Thank you very much.

Dan (00:06:42.000)

And we got to take the credit the mix Jordan, and thank you so much to I've decided to send borrow money because I like when Dan says motherfucker, motherfucker. I don't know if this is like

Jordan (00:06:55.000)

mother fucker.

Dan (00:06:56.000)

I don't know what tone I should. I don't know how I usually say it. How would you think I usually say it? Oh, man. This motherfucker. You rarely

Jordan (00:07:02.000)

you rarely say it in true anger though, because I imagine it somebody is wanting you to say it. They want you to say it the way that you said it to fucking Greenwald, man, you know?

Dan (00:07:12.000)

Yeah, you got to be that was it anyway, you are now a technocrat.

Alex Jones (00:07:18.000)

I'm a policy wonk. I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow. Actually. Gonna take a little break now. A little break II for me. And then we're going to come back. And I'm going to start the show over. But I'm the devil. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you. But at the end of the day, Fuck you and your new world order. And fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. Maybe today's broadcast. Maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years. Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow. And you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. I'll be better tomorrow.

Dan (00:08:13.000)

He's not. But we won't really experience much of that. Oh, that's today's a little bit on the off the beaten path. All right. So Jordan, it dawned on me that while I was taking time off, there was a major story surrounding Alex and Infowars that we haven't really covered, but it's super relevant to the news. Okay. A lot of the minor figures around Infowars are really boring, and thus we don't really hear much from them. True. Alex, his business model requires him to be in employing mostly a bunch of tumbleweeds, because if he had competent people in house, they'd realize how easy his gig is and then they do it better. And he'd go out of business. He's incentivized to have a crew of serviceable disappointments at all times. One such serviceable disappointment that we've not really covered too much is currently on trial for being part of a seditious conspiracy. I'm referring, of course, to Rambo Joe Biggs. At this point, the Oathkeepers, who were on trial, including Stewart Rhodes have been convicted of seditious conspiracy, and they're very clear evidence of some communication between Rhodes and the head of the proud boys, the group in which Joe Biggs is second in command. As such, I think there's a very high probability that Biggs is going to end up being found guilty. And the fact that woke insurance underwriter norm Pattice as his lawyer doesn't really help Joe's odds one bit does not now, think about that for a second. If this is what ends up happening, there will be one frequent Infowars guest for over a decade and a former Infowars employee who will both be in prison for being party to a seditious conspiracy. That's fucking insane. Yeah. And we don't spend enough time really reflecting on it. So this is just going to be a silent episode, are you and I mean, just sit and think about it

Jordan (00:09:54.000)

again. I mean, this is why though, obviously, because if you stop and really think of about it, it takes you to some dark places, it's places that make you think some dark things are the right thing to do. And instead just don't think about it,

Dan (00:10:07.000)

beginning of 2017 decided to start this podcast, could not have imagined that number of years later, two figures,

Jordan (00:10:17.000)

I genuinely whenever we started, I was like, I can't believe only 20 or 30, or people are listening to this because we will of course be at the center of an insane sequence of events in five years, naturally, that makes the most sense.

Dan (00:10:31.000)

So of course, yeah. So what brought this to the front of my mind was that on Friday, March 10, Joe Biggs called into Infowars and was a guest on Harrison Smith's show for an hour. I'm sorry, what? Yep, he's on trial. Right. He was said to be calling in from the quote, DC Gulag prison, where he's being held. And the situation as Infowars describes, it is like this, quote, Biggs has been held in solitary confinement for over two years without ever being convicted of a crime interesting, I failed to understand how he could be living in a horrible gulag and stuck in solitary confinement and also call into Infowars and be on air for a fucking hour. Yeah, seems a little bit incongruent. It seems like Joe is trying to get some juice here for his Gibson TO GO Campaign to pay his legal expenses. So this is in service of that check that shows you fully understand that that is why this has happened. So

Jordan (00:11:22.000)

So here's the problem. Here's the problem. All right. You're telling me that Joe Biggs called into Harrison Smith's show, so he could pay norm?

Dan (00:11:31.000)

Yeah, I guess we're commissary or something, right? Oh, yeah. So I went and checked out the campaign, and he's trying to raise $250,000. And it's not even a 10% of that. That's good. Fun fact, though. Gavin McInnes is his top donor with $1,732, which is nice. It's cool that the guy who started the gang Biggs was a part of his throwing a couple of bucks at the problem and not being held responsible for his actions

Jordan (00:11:56.000)

at all. Yeah,

Dan (00:11:58.000)

I'm not certain of it. But I think that Gavin's donation is a reference to US legal code 1732, which has to do with the release of citizens imprisoned by foreign governments. This is cute how they don't think our government is actually our government when it's convenient, but definitely do when they can use it to wield power against the groups that

Jordan (00:12:15.000)

they hate. Do you know I'm going to throw this out there just as a as a person who can think clearly Alright, if you are on on trial for seditious conspiracy, right. And you are calling in to a show describing the place you are being held as a political prisoner as a gulag. Then, in essence, aren't you saying that I am a play I am in a place where sedition is the correct move for me to make? Yeah,

Dan (00:12:41.000)

I mean, there are so many, and if I was

Jordan (00:12:44.000)

if I was I had great if I had courage, I would be proud of seditious. Look, the

Dan (00:12:49.000)

problem is that I failed. Exactly. It is not that I had. It's not that I tried to overthrow this illegitimate government.

Jordan (00:12:57.000)

It is that I failed, which in that case, I mean,

Dan (00:13:00.000)

like Harrison Smith on January 6, would agree with that. Yeah,

Jordan (00:13:03.000)

totally. He was like, the capital is fallen. Yeah, we're happy. So so like, I feel like the sportsmen thing to do here is to be like, Yeah, I seditious conspiracy, you know, and then like, take your licks. Well, if you to one those fuckers would be dead right now. You know what I'm saying? Well, and

Dan (00:13:20.000)

if they had one, Joe Biggs would be like, I was the one who did totally, totally. Yeah, things have gone a little bit differently. He'd be it would be like he'd get a tattoo. Yeah. Would say the fucking overthrow the United States government. Yeah, absolutely. It would become a new rank and the proud Boy Yeah,

Jordan (00:13:37.000)

so I want to upgrade his charges from seditious conspiracy to seditious conspiracy and unsportsmanlike conduct.

Dan (00:13:45.000)

I would definitely give him an answer. I'd give him a I'm not a lawyer, but I have to think that going on Infowars I'm making a bunch of claims that may or may not be true about your case. While the case is still being tried can't be a good idea. Multiple members of the proud boys have pled guilty already and this clip of Biggs from January 6 That doesn't scream I'm innocent. Oh.

Joe Biggs (00:14:08.000)

So we just stormed the fucking capitol. Never get tired. So much America so much American voters, January 6 will be a day in infamy.

Dan (00:14:22.000)

strange way to describe it the way that Pearl Harbor was, I mean, I will say that they always complain about people saying that there's a new Pearl Harbor he's saying he's the limited for me.

Jordan (00:14:36.000)

Yeah. Here's here's what I feel like people aren't are accepting with this, which again, unsportsmanlike, right? We would have a very different history as a country. If after the Tea Party, they were like, Oh, cool. Well, you guys are just in jail now goodbye forever. You know, like that would be a different situation. So that was a seditious conspiracy. The American country is based upon a seditious conspiracy or essentially one. Yeah. And that's the crucial part. And that's unsportsmanlike conduct to to complain about losing.

Dan (00:15:06.000)

Fair enough. I mean, I totally agree with you unsportsmanlike thing, but I don't know if that's in the legal code. Yeah, I don't know if that's a

Jordan (00:15:12.000)

crime man. Yet another thing in the legal code that I should have put in there now

Dan (00:15:17.000)

we'll see how this all shakes out. But I suspect that Joe isn't going to be getting out of jail and nor Pattice is going to get that $1,732 From Gavin. I was thinking about the state of things and I decided that first of all, we're gonna have to listen to don't say Joe Biggs calling in to talk to him. Okay,

Jordan (00:15:33.000)

well, that's you're gonna say norms podcast, and I was like, That shit ain't happening. No. Okay, go.

Dan (00:15:38.000)

I haven't even checked in Goody what's going on? And legitimacy all I needed to hear Elio fucking funny name is dumb ass. Yeah. So we're gonna do that. And then we're going to explore a little bit. So I'm gonna play here this first clip. This is Joe calling in to talk to Harrison Smith from prison by God.

Harrison Smith (00:15:59.000)

Joe Biggs. Thanks so much for calling in. And I just want to I just want to hand the floor over to you this is your time to just say whatever you want. But let me just ask, how are you? How you doing? How you holding up? How are things going for you?

Joe Biggs (00:16:12.000)

That's all right. I mean, it is a big change in a person's life. We need to go from, you know, freedom to solitary confinement for you know, a long time, you know that as I talk to you now I'm sitting in the concrete room with a two inch mattress in a window. It's about a fist wide. As I can see out in a toilet beside me. I mean, you're stuck in here 22 to 23 hours a day.

Dan (00:16:38.000)

First of all, it's interesting to hear how they're trying to ramp up this idea that Joe is being held in a Soviet style Gulag. And when Harrison asks how he's doing his answers, I'm doing pretty good. Am I right? Second, Something doesn't add up about the story he's telling about his pretrial detention. I can't reconcile the idea that he's in this terrible situation. And yet he has access to a phone for at least an hour in his cell and no one stops him from calling into a right wing propaganda show that is actively involved in spreading the conspiracy that fueled Biggs's crime, particularly given that Joe is calling into that show predominantly to promote his gifts and GO Campaign raise money.

Jordan (00:17:14.000)

Yeah, it concerns me about the wardens choices in this prison. It's

Dan (00:17:18.000)

strange, it's my position on Joe's complaints about his detention conditions are the same that I have about all other cases, people being held in government detention, especially pretrial detention, deserve dignity and humane treatment. I think that Joe Biggs is a giant piece of shit. But that doesn't change that he's a person and you can't hold people in abusive conditions. If we're going to have a state that incarcerates, we have to at least require that we've talked about this a little in the past, but that DC jail does have a troubling history. So it doesn't seem impossible to imagine that the conditions that Joe is in are less than ideal for sure. It would have been nice to see concern about these conditions from Joe or anyone at Infowars before it affected them personally, but I guess we can't ask for a miracle. Also, it's not lost on me how entirely supportive Infowars is of Joe Arpaio who might as well be the patron saint of abusing pretrial defendants in custody. Yeah, I know that hypocrisy means nothing to these people. But I would hope that seeing the person they care about make these kinds of claims about his detention conditions would cause them to reconsider what Joe Arpaio does, but they won't

Jordan (00:18:23.000)

know. I mean, it is it is fucked up. It is infinitely fucked up that I have to say, I wish Joe Biggs were treated as well in prison as the fucking Christchurch shooter, you know, like, and he might and I and that's a thing that because of what I believe in, I have to say and believe I know,

Dan (00:18:41.000)

and I don't know what his specific conditions are. If but, you know, to the extent that whatever he's saying, if they were found to be true, then something should be done.

Jordan (00:18:51.000)

I mean, truthfully, it is not a good source. It is. Right, right, right. If we had a choice, if we had a choice between the prison system being reformed, and Joe Biggs being stuck, where he is getting the shittiest treatment possible. I choose the prison system every time reform that shit fuck him. I hope he has a great life in a good prison.

Dan (00:19:12.000)

Yeah, right. Whatever complaints Joe has about his conditions in the jail should be taken seriously, not just on his behalf, but on behalf of the people held in that facility who don't have access to a large propaganda outlet to speak on. All that being said, this has nothing to do with the reason he's being held in detention, which is storming the capitol to try and stop the 2020 election from being certified, which he definitely did. Yeah. Now, all that being said Also on Tuesday, a federal judge denied a motion brought by another January 6, defendant Christopher Kragen, who claimed that his rights were violated in that DC jail. That certainly doesn't mean that no one experienced anything inappropriate, but it does take into account that a lot of the general conditions that the January 6 defendants are in and it doesn't seem like a lot of the picture that someone like Joe is painting are accurate. Yeah. And I don't know how much too that is Joe's doing and how much of it is like he's part of an embellishment machine. Yeah. You know, like Infowars. Alex doesn't do like he never sticks to the fact Yeah, he's the anti dragnet.

Jordan (00:20:11.000)

No, it is really funny. Just on account of like, if I was going to be on trial for seditious conspiracy, I would go the complete opposite direction. I'd be like, listen, honestly, I'm being treated great in this prison. It turns out the United States the best place on the fucking planet, I love this place. I would never try and get rid of anything

Dan (00:20:31.000)

here. I don't I don't mean this to say that. I don't think that anybody has been in bad conditions or anything like that. But from what I've read, in a number of instances, it seems like the government is interested in giving them preferential treatment. How

Jordan (00:20:48.000)

about how about this way?

Dan (00:20:49.000)

I think that's probably for the best because of how serious the crime they're being

Unknown Speaker (00:20:53.000)

raised. Right.

Jordan (00:20:54.000)

All right. I would say that of all the people whose interests I care about in a prison right now they are on the bottom rung. So you know, if they if their problem is solved, it will only be because everybody else's problem was solved. You know what I'm saying? Fair? Yeah.

Dan (00:21:09.000)

Joe does not appreciate that. Yeah, I bet not. So he has some allegations to make about the prosecution.

Joe Biggs (00:21:17.000)

You know, this past week, we found out that the FBI had been listening into attorney client privilege conversations and then building their prosecution based on the points that we would bring that up, you know, talking to lawyers, that kind of shape their, their shape, or shape their prosecution in a way to, you know, nice looked at or whatever, it would see us bringing up points that we thought they had in their weak spot in their prosecution. And they would go, you gotta make this change. We've got to do this. So it's been, it's been insane to know, these people are sitting here the entire time, you know, listening to these types of things and making these kinds of statements and really cheating.

Dan (00:22:04.000)

There's a pretty big claim. Yeah, this is huge. He's accusing the lawyers of doing something that is a foundational violation of their legal obligation. Yes. So Joe was talking about a recent event that he's put the trial temporarily on hold when prosecutors accidentally turned over confidential messages to the defense lawyers, some of it possibly containing classified information, the FBI turned over a large spreadsheet of messages to an agent in charge of producing them for the case. And she filtered out the ones that were not germane to the case, or ones that couldn't be turned over. She messed up by not actually deleting them. But instead, they were on the sheet in a hidden cell, oh, my God, one of the things in that hidden cell that's been disclosed of them, like one of them, there's a message where an agent was told to destroy, quote, 338 items of evidence, but an Assistant US Attorney has clarified that this is not related to the proud boys case, according to a court filing this related to a nearly 20 year old case. So it almost certainly isn't as suspicious as it's being made sure they've destroyed evidence in our case that would exonerate

Jordan (00:23:07.000)

Sure, sure. I mean, but if you're in if you're in a conspiracy theory trial, I would probably say delete those fucking cells, dum dum, yeah. Jesus Christ. Matt's

Dan (00:23:17.000)

done. Maybe she thought she did.

Jordan (00:23:19.000)

No, no, I'm sure she did think she did. That's I mean, that's that's the problem. Yeah.

Dan (00:23:24.000)

The other thing that's being alleged, is that these messages include references to communications between proud boys, Zachary Rael and his then attorney, it really does look like this is the case. But this isn't going to stick for REL or the proud boys because it's not protected communication, according to the prosecution. As it turns out the messages that the FBI agents were allegedly discussing were captured through the TruLink system, quote, inmates consent to monitoring of their use of the true links and electronic messages system every time they log into a true Linux terminal at the FTC. In the banner warning inmates are explicitly advised that electronic messages and system activity are subject to monitoring and retention. Inmates are further specifically advised that electronic messages to and from an attorney are monitored and quote will not be treated as privileged communications and that their consent to such monitoring and information retrieval for law enforcement purposes. That's gonna be a tough hurdle for REL and the defense to clear because from where I'm sitting, kind of looks like this dude, just fucked up and now they're desperately trying to get things thrown off course, on a pretend technicality. Yeah, that's not going to work. Also, this happened with Rails communication. So Biggs has literally no standing to claim that his rights were violated. Even if it were a valid argument for our writer. This is really dumb, right? Biggs is wrong in his claims, but I understand why you need to play the victim and all this he's probably going to jail for a long time. Minimum of 20 years Yeah,

Jordan (00:24:51.000)

I think something like that. I

Dan (00:24:51.000)

think that's probably about what he's gonna get hit with. Yeah,

Jordan (00:24:54.000)

I think I think I'm I'm on a certain on a certain level. Here's the deal. I am against that true. Think bullshit, I'm against it. Yeah, but I'm against most of the shit in the Apple agreement that I click I agree on every time so I'm not gonna go into court of law and expect them to give a fuck what I have to say, well, I clicked I agree, you know, at the end of the day I'm fucked

Dan (00:25:13.000)

true. There are ways to have privileged communication. Dogs just not one of them exactly. And if they like, but here, from what I understand, I've never used one of these true Lynx machines. But from what I understand, it's not like, like the full page like an app will show you the big pop up, you are advised, right, right. Sure, sure. It's your choice to ignore it at your own peril. Agreed. So here's what's been like conduct that sort of Harrison has been to protests with Joe before, and he hates how people are mischaracterizing him.

Harrison Smith (00:25:50.000)

Now and you know, I've been to protest with you, where you were leading it and you know, beforehand, the meeting was all about how do we stay peaceful? How do we avoid confrontation, they're gonna attack us, but don't get into it. I mean, that's what that's what makes you dangerous to the system because you refuse to do the things that they claimed that that you do. I mean, it really is beyond description, the level of evil that we're dealing with here.

Dan (00:26:11.000)

Totally. Harrison is so full of shit. Joe is one of the highest ranked leaders in a violent street gang whose entire existence is predicated on opposing anything that doesn't fall in line with defending a system organized around straight white sis men. I know the folks like Joe would love to say that they're just wanting to defend the West how their initiation prayer begins by saying, quote, I'm a proud Western chauvinist, and I refuse to apologize for creating the modern world. It's not about white folks, and you know that it's about the rest.

Jordan (00:26:40.000)

I thought it was a proud white Stern, chauvinist.

Dan (00:26:43.000)

Incidentally, I've been reading a bit of the writings of Ravello P Oliver lately, and I came across an interesting passage. All of her, of course, was one of the 12 founding members of the John Birch Society who would go on to become a really public, anti Semite, and white supremacist, eventually finding himself as the mentor for William Luther Pierce, who would go on to write The Turner Diaries, which is the essential text of the militia groups in the 90s. Upon which must much of the street gang organizations like the proud boys and Oathkeepers are modeled, there's a straight line for him to not complicated. Yeah. In his text, the religion of the West, Oliver says, quote, during the Middle Ages, our ancestors occupied the greater part of Europe and until they discovered the American continent, they lived only in Europe. But despite that geographical unity, they did not generally refer to themselves as the Europeans. For all practical purposes. Furthermore, our ancestors belong to the same division of the white race. They like the true Greeks and true Romans before them were all members of The Great Race that we now call indo European or Aryan, but they had in their language, no words to designate their blood relationship and biological unity. Thus, when they refer to the unity of which they were always conscious as something transcending the constantly shifting territorial and political divisions of Europe, they called themselves Christendom. So to some of the points so far there was this group of pure real white people, but they didn't have a word to describe their racial groups that they use the word Christendom. All of her goes on to quote, Christianity is the religion of the West and for all practical purposes only of the West. It is not as Christians once generally believed a universal religion, for experience has now proved that it cannot successfully be exported to populations that are not indo European. Ah, so you understand that there is a synonymous relationship here, a code Nabi it's pretty critical as an underpinning to understand when dealing with groups, like the proud boys this relationship, the intellectual tradition that they exist within very strongly and clearly believes that the words Western and Christendom are synonymous with Aryan. In essence, the existence of the proud boys is violence in and of itself. When they show up to a protest, they're there as shock troops of that intellectual tradition aimed at intimidating or outright attacking the things that they see as being a threat to Western dominance in heavy quotes. Yeah, so no, I don't buy Harrison's bullshit. And further even leaving that context to the side because you know, I don't think that they sit around thinking about Roe v lO, P, all of her and the, the tradition within that they exist with it.

Jordan (00:29:23.000)

In order to do that, they would have to have a reading list significantly larger than the number zero, which is what I feel it is right now.

Dan (00:29:30.000)

I don't think that they do so I'm gonna leave that context to the side. Joe is not a peaceful person. He goes to these rallies and he's looking for a fight. Like the most videos you'll ever see of him or him yelling fuck Antifa and fuck BLM leading chants like that. But he goes further, like the here's a clip from January 6, where he has a bowlful bullhorn, and he's leading the crowd and another champ

Dan (00:30:00.000)

So the existence of these groups is rooted in violence and the behaviors they engage in when out in public are all meant to increase the likelihood of violent confrontation breaking out. Leaving that existential issue aside, the list of proud boys who have been charged with acts of violence at and after rallies is ridiculously long. And here's the only point that really matters here. Harrison understands that he knows that perfectly well. The game they play on Infowars doesn't really work if he appears to understand the dynamics. So he goes this way. Oh, you're the most peaceful protester I've ever seen in my whole life. Yeah, it's It's nonsense. It's it's kayfabe

Jordan (00:30:36.000)

Yeah, I mean, Harrison Harrison makes me like, I've gone through so many evolutions in my in my life towards bullying. You know, like when I was growing up? Oh, no, when I was growing up, it was the 80s. And it was like, ah, if you're bullied, all of your behaviors are justified. And I was like, that's not to the nerves. Yeah, like, oh, shit, no, we can't do that. Then later on, it was like bullying is bad, but you know, it happens. And now it's like, Hey, this is wrong. But at the same time, like somebody should put Harrison Smith's head in toilet, I'm like, I don't know what to tell you about bullying. That man's a white supremacist who sounds like his head needs to be in a toilet.

Dan (00:31:14.000)

It's it. I will admit, I have struggled with this internally in my head at times in my life. Yeah, there are people who make you want to bully them. And it's, it's tough. You have to resist it. Like something that you know, you can feel no, but yeah, it's

Jordan (00:31:33.000)

it makes me angry. It makes me angry that he is making me want to bully him. I am not going out of my way to bully him. I am not interacting with him in any way. He's just a white supremists who showed up who needs his head in the toilet. I don't know what to tell you. I don't

Dan (00:31:48.000)

think he's trying to get you to bully. Maybe he is I don't know. It could be anyway, he's overly dramatic. You're trying to pitch Joe's fundraiser.

Harrison Smith (00:31:58.000)

Joe was willing to lay down his life and service to his nation. But now that nation is trying to take from him everything he loves. He has a chance to come home but he needs your help.

Dan (00:32:09.000)

Harrison's playing the piano

Unknown Speaker (00:32:11.000)

by Free

Harrison Smith (00:32:12.000)

Joe Biggs and.com For just the price of a cup of coffee a day and go.com/s, s G B D F. And that stands for SSG Joe Biggs, Defense Fund, Gibson, go.com/ssg, B, D, F, and I thought we'd only have 30 minutes with Joe but he's able to stay along, stay on a little bit longer. So he'll be connecting reconnecting with us. Again, it's always a little bit of trouble getting through the prison phone system. That's what you have to deal with when your guests, our political prisoners have an illegitimate regime.

Dan (00:32:49.000)

There's nothing that you donating or not donating can do to help or hinder Joe's chances of going to jail. He's almost certainly going to jail. Yeah, this is nonsense, and also a little dramatic. Yeah, if you like it, I think if you're trying to play up the political prisoner of an illegitimate regime thing, maybe it's not a great idea to make a point that Joe is somehow able to stay twice as long as you expected guesting on a bullshit propaganda network that is supposed to be the number one enemy of the regime, the one outlet that the regime is so scared of acknowledging the Joe is not only able to call in and guest on the show, but he's able to extend his appearance kind of makes it look like the detention conditions he's living in are pretty accommodate.

Jordan (00:33:29.000)

I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a cellmate, who is caught with an ounce of weed 30 years ago on his third strike and has been there and hasn't been able to make a phone call for 20 fucking years Shut up Biggs.

Dan (00:33:39.000)

Yeah, whatever Joe's go through does not sound like a blog show. Fuck yourself. I don't remember reading the Gulag Archipelago, the part where we're allowed to call into propaganda radio show.

Jordan (00:33:50.000)

That was the thing about 1984 That was so crazy is that they let him go around talking all the time. I know crazy.

Dan (00:33:56.000)

I wouldn't have called attention to that if I were Harrison, but he's really bad at this. So I don't expect him to understand how the optics of this are really jarring and stupid.

Jordan (00:34:05.000)

I mean, that's that's the cognitive dissonance that he allows himself to just like wash through is almost admirable, like that would break my brain to try and do both of those things at the same time. That would break me

Dan (00:34:17.000)

I think it affords you a great deal of freedom once you realize that the people who are listening aren't really thinking about anything you're saying. Right? Right. That probably is like, Oh, wow, I could just say whatever the fuck I want. Do

Jordan (00:34:29.000)

you think any do you think they've ever had the thought? Like, what if I just made noises? Do you think any of them has ever been like what if I made noises that sounded like words for a full like two minutes? Could I get away with it?

Dan (00:34:41.000)

You know what I mean? I don't know if they've thought about it. But I bet Alex has done that.

Jordan (00:34:47.000)

You might be right. Nick, you might be right.

Dan (00:34:49.000)

I haven't listened to every one of his episodes. I bet somewhere in there he does some scattered. Interpreting verb

Unknown Speaker (00:35:01.000)

to be a bird.

Jordan (00:35:02.000)

It does feel like a lot of their words could be replaced by just different dynamics and notes

Dan (00:35:08.000)

there. You're just trying to make people feel things. So if you can make them feel

Jordan (00:35:13.000)

nice can make people feel so just do it that Yeah. So

Dan (00:35:17.000)

Harrison has some thoughts about these folks in jail.

Harrison Smith (00:35:20.000)

How I just I'm amazed that all you guys that are being prosecuted by the persecuted like this are are not just that you don't just go insane that you don't just just rage out and do something like how do you detain

Jordan (00:35:34.000)

through it, that's why they're there

Joe Biggs (00:35:38.000)

was, it was hard it was it was hard in the beginning, I can tell you that it's difficult going from, you know, sane life to being put into a prison with a bat as crazy people saying like,

Dan (00:35:54.000)

so the real answer to this is that they haven't lost it because they know they're guilty. And the only real ploy they have is to grift a little bit so Dum Dums will pay their lawyers are more likely drop a ton of money into their commissary for while they're in jail. Yeah. Also, I'm not quite sure what Joe's talking about, considering, as I understand, you know, what, maybe that maybe there's more to it than this. But like, initially, there was a whole wing for the January 6 Defendant Yeah, only Sure. Separate place and in Bryan, but as more people have been released, maybe he's not in a separate wing for January six people anymore, because I was thinking when he was like all these badass crazy people like you that could still be talking about the people who were along with you.

Jordan (00:36:35.000)

100% could still be that. Yeah, that's that's in the running.

Dan (00:36:38.000)

I mean, they're not. They're not Well,

Jordan (00:36:40.000)

right. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, it See, that's the thing. I don't know why. I mean, obviously, I know why. But I wouldn't think that having a shit ton of money in my commissary account in prison was a good idea.

Dan (00:36:55.000)

Well, I read an article about the initial situation in the January 6, the wing at the DC holding facility, and apparently something that was happening was there was a Kickstarter funded or whatever campaign. Yeah. And it raised like $1.3 million. Sure. And it became chaos, because there were groups jockeying for of course, like being the face of the defendant. Yeah. Because it gave them access to more of those funds. Yeah, no,

Jordan (00:37:24.000)

no, totally. Yeah, it if you have bigs if he has a ton of money in his commissary, there's two ways to go, he has either to become the fucking Lord of the prison, or everyone is going to beat the shit out of him anytime they want anything. You

Dan (00:37:39.000)

assume that I don't know how to I don't know what conditions are exactly alike. But maybe Jerry confinement? Get a bunch of stuff. Oh, no,

Jordan (00:37:48.000)

no, I think if he just had some money in there, whatever. But if he's got like, 200k, and it's commissary people are gonna come for it. That's just science. Well,

Dan (00:37:57.000)

I should tell you that that gives IT GO Campaign has not reached. That's good for him. So Harrison's got an interesting question. And Joe has a dumb answer.

Harrison Smith (00:38:07.000)

But to the people that have been swayed by the mainstream media, what is the case you would make to the average liberal out there? Is there any way to get through to them to express you know that they should also be terrified that this is happening to their fellow American and it's for their own good and for their own decency that they should be standing up for you What's the appeal you would make to the people on the other side of the aisle as it were?

Joe Biggs (00:38:32.000)

In the useful idiots of the Democrats want the Democrats know that they're in their base, they, they don't know that, but they believe that their base is completely and totally stupid. But they're useful idiots. You know, once they come after us and take our rights away. It's going to happen to those people and they just, you know, that's what they need. Understand. This isn't just an attack on us. This is an attack by greedy, power hungry, globalist elitist to were, you know, do the most god awful things.

Dan (00:39:02.000)

So there's kind of a resignation and Joe's answer because he knows damn well that anybody who looks at the evidence will come away recognizing that he's guilty as shit. The only folks he has half a chance with are those who are already in the cult. So why bother evangelize? Yeah, just paint the people that you can't convince his stupid grift from the cult members and move on. Joe lived his own life, so he knows better than anyone else what he did. If you read the indictments that have been released, it could be argued that Joe Biggs is actually the person who incited all the planning that the proud boys did leading up to January 6, that's not good on December 20 22. By too many twos too many twos on December 28 2020. Enrique TARIO set up an elite group called the ministry of self defense, which included Joe Biggs. This was a day after Biggs texted TARIO, complaining that the proud boys quote, recruit losers who want to drink and that they should, quote, get radical and get real men. This conversation occurred shortly after the January 6 rally was announced and the ministry encrypted chat is where a whole lot of shit that Joe's pretending didn't happen went down. In theory, you could say that it looks like Joe's encouragement led to TARIO going down this path. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. In that group chat and others that split off from it that included Biggs, there was plenty of talk of occupying the Capitol on January 6, and talks of how it was going to be much different from their normal operations. When TARIO was arrested on January 4, everyone tried to delete their history in the group and started a new one that didn't include TARIO because everything that they were doing was totally legal, and not at all involved storming the Capitol, and their new group a member said quote, at least they won't get our boots on the ground plans because we're one step ahead of them. I am that's one step ahead of the cops. If you're confused, I am blown away criminals are the people who are generally concerned about where the cops are in terms of steps. In the new group, it was posted, quote, everything is compromised and we can be looking at gang charges stop everything immediately. This comes from the top. I mean, you know, if you weren't planning anything, it seems weird that someone at the top was demanding everyone stop everything immediately. really smells like gang planning stuff.

Jordan (00:41:11.000)

Yeah, every time you catch the Mafia's texts, and then you catch their texts and you compare them against each other It sure sounds similar.

Dan (00:41:18.000)

Then on the night of January 5, someone posted about what to expect the next day and it said quote Rufio is in charge cops are the primary threat.

Jordan (00:41:27.000)

And then I assume the next part was Rufio Rufio.

Dan (00:41:31.000)

Now No, but it is a weird thing to say cops are the primary is weird. Also Rufio is full name is Rufio pan man a name here and because he assaulted someone with a pan, Joe knows damn well that he was part of these groups and that they were planning exactly what happened except with the difference being that they wanted to stop the certification of the election, not just postpone it for a few hours. He can fuck off with this woe is me shit, because let's not forget, this was Joe on January 6.

Joe Biggs (00:41:59.000)

So we can storm the fucking capitol. I can place so much America so much American voters, so much America. And for me, yeah.

Dan (00:42:12.000)

He doesn't even get the quote, right. No. So yeah, it's gonna be an uphill battle to sway people to your side. Anyone who sincerely considers the evidence probably isn't going to be a fan. And they're going to get it pretty clearly. Oh, you guys are a bunch of assholes who were planning on doing shit just like this.

Jordan (00:42:27.000)

You know, it just now occurred to me. But one of the true things that I think exemplifies what they are in terms of where they are in human history is that they're still naming people based upon occupation or event. Well, there's exactly right. It's like imagine if they did when and then 2000 years from now everybody's fucking pan man.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:59.000)

You think? I mean, it would be a

Dan (00:43:04.000)

little pan man. If you overthrow

Jordan (00:43:06.000)

the country I think you get to keep paying man. Maybe you have to keep paying man. Yeah, but

Dan (00:43:10.000)

then it becomes like a nobility

Unknown Speaker (00:43:15.000)

Rufio of

Jordan (00:43:17.000)

the pan man. Oh, my God. Good stuff. Oh, the words gonna add anyways, where are we?

Dan (00:43:24.000)

So here's Harrison trying to get a conspiracy going and Joe being like,

Harrison Smith (00:43:30.000)

Here's the article. It's from Politico. It says a startling document predicted January 6 Democrats are missing. It's Other warnings. They say weeks before the 2020 election. So before the election even happened, a secret 87 page document outlined and matter of fact, language the threat posed by Donald Trump's STILL TO COME campaign of election denial. So apparently this 87 page document had gone out saying Donald Trump is going to lose the election and he's going to question the election and here's how we deal with it. I mean, how much do you think of January 6 was a pre planned sting operation to get people like yourself into a position where you can be framed for a crime? I mean, how sophisticated Do you think the the entrapment was in this case?

Joe Biggs (00:44:17.000)

I don't know how deep it goes. I mean, it's been of the day it was up to Pelosi to bring in the National Guard it was up to her because she's over the Capitol Police to have them you know, beat the security but the former captain of the Capitol police that the last thing stolen, he says they were left with no kind of Intel really, I mean, they they had extra fencing put up and they were told to take him down I believe that's what I heard and file

Dan (00:44:42.000)

Joe so goddamn wishy washy. He doesn't have that fire in his belly and I think it's easy to understand why he knows the pretending that this was all a setup isn't going to change anything and who knows if it would actively hurt his case. All he can do is spout off inaccurate Infowars talking points like how Pelosi is responsible for that season. decreased police presence. It's pathetic. I thought this guy was a proud Western chauvinist who refuse to apologize for creating the modern world, not a loser, little teddy baby. Also, Harrison hasn't even read this political article or he's willfully lying about it. This was about a document called Plan D made by a think tank group called the hub. They were fairly certain that the in their prediction that no matter what happened in the election, Trump would not concede defeat, but that wasn't too risky of a guess for them to be making the document allowed for possible scenarios where Biden won, or Trump won, it didn't specifically predict January 6, more than it predicted the kind of environment where in an event like that could happen.

Jordan (00:45:39.000)

Yeah, I mean, we predicted January 6, but I think just by being shit talk and say they're going to storm the cap. Yeah, I mean, we did say that they were going to start with what it's not like a massive prediction. It's like, oh, there's a like, if I look at all the variables, there's like a 5050 shot, they do it. So it's not a prediction so much as it is like, oh, that could happen, man.

Dan (00:45:58.000)

I didn't even know that we'd said that until someone pointed it out. Yeah. Just, you know, as Alex would say, just sort of, yeah, look cover in the waterfront.

Jordan (00:46:08.000)

You just look outside and you say, yeah, there's a good chance they might do that. For the most part,

Dan (00:46:11.000)

this document that this political article is about is it covers what Democrats needed to do to make the country's democracy more healthy, like dealing with how the Senate is absurdly biased towards lower population, generally, rural GOP voting states, or how the Electoral College is an outdated institution that has gone against the popular vote twice since 2000. The last time it had happened before that consider this was 1888. The document was a warning that if the Democratic Party got back into power, they needed to behave like it was a quote, fleeting, once in a generation or perhaps lifetime opportunity to revise the political system, which I think is probably fair, I think that's probably a fair assessment for them to have made.

Jordan (00:46:54.000)

Yeah. Which is funny considering where we are.

Dan (00:46:57.000)

Anyway, Harrison is just making up a story about this political article that he hasn't read in service of making it seem like January 6, was a huge, huge inside job. And the Joe Biggs was set up, he knows it's bullshit. But if he dealt with reality, truthfully, he'd have to ask Joe hard questions. And that's bad for business. So just make shit up. Just make noises.

Jordan (00:47:17.000)

I love I love when think tanks come up with my ideas of just like, hey, you know what the Democrats should do? govern? Well, you ever tried that? Well, actually,

Dan (00:47:25.000)

I mean, I think that there's a difference between govern well, and like you guys need to treat this like an emergency. Yeah. And well, that down the hatches.

Jordan (00:47:34.000)

And to see, I don't think there's a difference between those two things, which is the problem. See, if we were in a better place governed well wouldn't mean that.

Dan (00:47:45.000)

Hey, fair enough. So we have one last clip of his conversation with Harrison, and it's dumb,

Harrison Smith (00:47:50.000)

but their own claims are inconsistent. They claimed this was a pre planned insurrection coup. There were it was an armed insurrection coup, but there were no arms. And it was pre planned. But also it was inspired by Trump's speech last afternoon, which they tried to impeach him for. I mean, even on its face, even with no extra evidence that we have the plethora of evidence that we have showing what really happened that day, but just on the on the basis of their claims. It's inconsistent. It's it's incoherent, it makes no sense at all. Yeah,

Dan (00:48:18.000)

I can explain this for Harrison real quick. The arms were waiting in an Oathkeeper safe house just outside DC because they knew that they couldn't open carry on Capitol grounds in this circumstance. The plan was to have someone deliver the arms to the Patriots if ship popped popped off and Trump deputize the militias to be his personal army. Oathkeeper leader Stewart Rhodes who was convicted of seditious conspiracy was the meeting with proud boy leader and Joe Biggs, his best buddy Enrique TARIO, in a parking structure on January 5, which really does imply some sort of working relationship point is the fact that they had the initial shock troops on the ground instigating the conflict and they didn't have gotten so that doesn't mean that there weren't plans in place to arm people later. If Harrison has paid any attention to the cases, he knows this, so he's either not paid attention, or he's lying to carry water for insurrectionist because he supports the idea of their insurrection. Yeah, I suspect it to the latter, given the Glee at reporting how the Patriots had taken over the Capitol on January 6, he had such Glee in his voice so he was exuberant. Which I guess he's just pretending he did. Yeah, no,

Jordan (00:49:17.000)

he never did that. Yeah, he never did that. No. I mean, in Ukraine is gonna walk in they made a deal with Putin, you know, no big deal.

Dan (00:49:24.000)

They all have to rewrite their own histories in order to make today and tomorrow make sense?

Jordan (00:49:29.000)

It is it is so funny how much of a movie they feel like they met in a parking structure. If you want to do conspiracy, you go to a Chinese buffet, man, nobody's listening there. Everybody's just looking at their garbage food. Okay.

Dan (00:49:44.000)

Much of the action carried out by people like the Oathkeepers and proud boys was demonstrably pre planned there. Encrypted group chats really lay that out pretty clearly, simultaneously, Trump's speech saying that everyone should go to the Capitol probably made a lot of people more likely to make the trek than They would have otherwise. So this is a combination of pre planning and circumstance. Harrison's argument doesn't make sense. And he isn't so dumb that he doesn't understand this. He's just really bad at laying out these arguments. So two

Jordan (00:50:11.000)

things can't be true at the same time.

Dan (00:50:15.000)

This interview is just whining. Joe is really low energy making excuses for why he's gonna be found guilty. It's a biased jury in DC, the courts are corrupt, my rights have been violated. None of it's based in reality, and none of it means anything. It's honestly a really strange interview because it's hard to imagine a lawyer telling their client that calling into Infowars from jail while awaiting trial is a good idea. It can't be good for the case for the defendant to smear the ongoing proceedings on a platform that actively promoted the events leading up to January 6, while he's being interviewed by a guy who watched the events of that day unfold and celebrated exuberantly, you would think that if you were going to take this kind of a swing, Joe would really go for it, like make a splash, say something that will go viral? Yeah. The former Infowars employee on trial for a seditious conspiracy called into the show and was a guest for an hour. And I would bet that most people listening to our podcast had no idea that it even happened. Yeah, no one's really talking about it. And I don't think anyone cared. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of weird.

Jordan (00:51:15.000)

Boy, you're looking at the you're looking down the barrel. 20, at least, you know, so that puts you out at like, 11 or 12.

Dan (00:51:22.000)

And he's like, 30, he's in his late 30s. Yeah,

Jordan (00:51:27.000)

I mean, you go out with a bang. You're not coming back. You're not coming back from the This isn't Jim Baker shit, where you're gonna get out. And you're gonna go right back to Griffin. When you get out. You will be forgotten. No one will remember Jim

Dan (00:51:39.000)

Baker had a lot of chops going in exactly at the scam. Yeah. And so like coming out, he was able to get back to that fix doesn't have much.

Jordan (00:51:48.000)

And Baker had a whole group of Baker had a whole team keeping the scam going while he's in jail, you

Dan (00:51:53.000)

know, and it was all religiously based. Exactly. Joe's kind of just just host street fighter. He's just a loser. You just lost Yeah, yeah. This interview really serve two basic purposes. The first is obviously to raise money for Joe's gifts and go. The second goal is more important to people like Harrison and Alex, which is to do everything possible to turn the people who will go to jail for January 6 into martyrs and blameless political prisoners. This is a trend you see catching on with hearing stories about the various defendants on trial and near canonization of Ashley Babbitt. In real time, we can see a false mythology being created that will be added to the massive tome of Patriot lore. Yeah. And that's kind of fun, I guess. Well, I'm an academic standpoint,

Jordan (00:52:35.000)

I have. Boy it is it's less fun when you're like, Oh, so this is how it happens again, and then you watch it, and then it's going to happen again. And you're just like, oh, shit, now I have to wait. Like, this is like waiting two years for the next season of yellow jackets or whatever. You know, it's like, Listen, man, I know, you guys are going to try and overthrow the Capitol again. Can we just hurry it up? It's a

Dan (00:52:57.000)

little bit different than waiting for the next season in as much as reckoning with this and recognizing some of these dynamics can help you experience them the next time and right, you know, so I think that there's, you know, I don't Well, I guess watching the first season of Yellowjackets prepares you to watch the second yet. Anyway, I think that the most important thing is I don't know what you can do to stop this cycle of creating these false mythologies that end up reinforcing Patriot law or whatever, I think you can just kind of grind well try and understand. I'm not, not everybody guy. No, I know, he didn't try and understand it. You know, call it out where you can and I think the most important thing is just be sure to reinforce your own connection to reality, because that that is a stabilizing force. But for now, I want to leave this to the side and jump into another topic that I think is under discussed, which is Joe Biggs career at Info Wars. Many people who ended up at Info Wars got there by winning a contest or coming in second place in a contest or by coming in third place in a contest or just by entering the contest. It will be easy to assume that this is true of Joe, but that would be incorrect. Joe Biggs came into the Info Wars orbit in 2013. And a pretty fascinating way. On June 18 2013, journalist Michael Hastings died in a car accident that became a bit of a conspiracy theory. Hastings had done some bombshell work in his young career with his Polk award winning Rolling Stone article The Runaway general more or less directly leading to the resignation of General Stanley McChrystal. Beyond that he did a lot of work surrounding the war in Iraq and was very critical of many aspects of US foreign policy. It's hard not to think that he had a really promising career ahead of him and his loss deprive the world of someone who had a lot of talent and potential that he died at 33. It was very, very tragic. So how does this relate to Joe Biggs? It turns out Hastings was embedded in Iraq with some US soldiers a number of years prior back in 2008. And guess who was one of those soldiers? Staff Sergeant Joe Biggs. Apparently the two of them had become friendly and kept in touch a little after Joe had retired from the service. After Hastings death, Joe made it his business to be the face of the Hastings death conspiracy team, framing himself as a close close friend of Hastings. The day after Hastings death, Joe tweeted at a KTLA reporter and from there went on any platform that would have him including Fox News, RT Megan Kelly, and of course Infowars. What makes Joe's story something more than just a tall tale that you would just probably need to ignore is that he was in possession of an email that Hastings sent to him the day before his death. It was an email that he sent to his colleagues, but for some reason Joe Biggs was BCC it on it. And it was the infamous message where he said, quote, I am onto a big story and I need to go off the radar for a bit. Shortly thereafter, he was dead in what appeared to many to be suspicious circumstances. Joe believed that this was all the proof you needed to make a conspiracy. So he took it upon himself to show the reporter at KTLA, this email, who did manage to confirm that the email was real with the help of Hastings coworkers, it was apparently authentic. And weirdly, Joe was copied on it. For reasons that are on I have no idea and I don't think anyone will ever know. But none of these colleagues wanted to talk, which Joe obviously understood to mean that they were scared, but he wasn't. Joe was a big strong man who would go on to lead a street gang and failed to overthrow the country. So he was more than ready to get all of the attention he could out of his alleged good friend's death. On June 26 2013, Joe went on Infowars for the first time and told Alex about the basics of the story. But things wouldn't really kick into high gear until he made his return trip on July 11. This interview is textbook Alex and it's a really fantastic example of how you can see Alex integrating information people give him and turning it into conspiracy fodder in real time. As such, I thought it would be a good use of our time to check in on that interview. Sounds good? July 11 2013. I'm down for it. Do what do you remember about Hastings? Because I'm sure you were aware of that story at the time.

Jordan (00:57:13.000)

Um, 2013. I was aware of the story at the time, but it was it's specifically one of those stories where it's like, well, yeah, you're gonna get a conspiracy out of that. The other thing you can do for sure, you know, like I will, I remember reading that email to just being like, Oh, well, never gonna get to the bottom of this one. And then just moved on was this before,

Dan (00:57:34.000)

like, you had, like a strong interest in like, political stuff? And

Jordan (00:57:40.000)

no, I've always had a strong interest in political stuff. It wasn't until us the show that I gave a shit about conspiracy stuff. Sure, sure. So this was the this was the this was like, you know, 911 was an inside job kind of thing, where I was like, listen, whatever truth we're gonna find it's going to be whatever way down here. I'm not going to get to the bottom of it today.

Dan (00:58:02.000)

I mean, the story obviously has all of the things you need all of the ingredients that are required for something crazy conspiracy wise. Yeah,

Jordan (00:58:11.000)

it's not a conspiracy, which it most likely isn't by a wide margin. But

Dan (00:58:15.000)

I can tell you from everything that I've looked into, I think I understand what happened fairly well. Right. It's more tragic than it is

Jordan (00:58:23.000)

conspiracy, right? There's a 99% chance of that, but if you have this story with that email, fuck, you're gonna get a conspiracy. Or Joe Biggs. Yeah, you're gonna have to do it. You got to do it. That's your that's your five minutes, man.

Dan (00:58:34.000)

Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I'm not entirely sure how I would gauge this. Like how much might have started out from good intentions here, but it did not stay good intentions for very long. And I think this July 11 interview is an indication of how reckless and disrespectful he is being with his behavior surrounding this story. I mean, basically, long and short of this is I just want to demonstrate that for as long as Joe has been around. He's a pile of shit.

Jordan (00:59:02.000)

Yeah, I've always been of the opinion, you know, all of those. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I've always been of the opinion that where you wind up shows what your intentions were at the beginning and whether or not you say they were one thing or the other.

Dan (00:59:16.000)

The road to Denver is paved with good intentions. Yeah, I don't know that.

Jordan (00:59:20.000)

It's a lot. A lot of like little what, like, what are the med pearls? Pearls? Those are the Yeah, I meant well,

Dan (00:59:26.000)

I ended up in Denver, Denver. So anyway, here is Alex introducing Joe Biggs. On that July 11. Broadcast,

Alex Jones (00:59:36.000)

Staff Sergeant Joseph Biggs was a second airborne combat in Iraq, Afghanistan. And it was what 2008 He first was embedded with a well known war reporter as certainly now and one of the editors over at Rolling Stone magazine, who really brought down one of the top generals. And, of course, that was Michael Restall now a few weeks ago, his car he most of you know, the story blew up while driving down the street and the engine shot down the road, the other direction. And I talked to well known reporter Nomi Prins, who lives nearby, she went looked at the tree wasn't really damaged. And it looked like from the photos that came up to rest against it. Then we learn he was getting death threats, hours before he said, I'm gonna go into hiding off the radar. I've got my biggest story ever. Listen, if I ever come on air and say I'm getting threats, I'm going off the radar. I'm about to break my biggest story ever. And my car blows up. Man, I want an investigation. And I said on air a few weeks ago, I said it's a very low probability that this wasn't some type of car bomb.

Dan (01:00:41.000)

Okay, so there have been multiple investigations done about the crash. And experts have been very clear that there's nothing about the facts of the case that would make you think that there was a bomb in the car. The contents of automobiles are very flammable as it turns out, and you can look at a car going on fire rapidly and think that it looks like an explosive device, but it is almost certainly not. Alex has made up his mind here though, and is establishing set talking points for the story that are not based in reality. Also, the email that Hastings sent did say that he was going off the radar, but he didn't say that he was onto his biggest story ever. He might have said that to other people, though, because there's a little piece that Alex and Joe don't address here but of the story because I think that they probably don't know it. And even if they did, it doesn't fit their narrative so they wouldn't bring it out. Okay. Michael Hastings had a hearing history of bipolar episodes, and his brother has come out and given his story about the lead up to Hastings death. taken along with the other information that's available, his death really doesn't look that suspicious anymore. In an interview with salon his brother said, quote, I rule out foul play entirely. I might have been suspicious if I hadn't been with him the day before he died. He also explained what that means, quote, a few days before he died, Mike called me and I got the impression that he was having a manic episode similar to one he had had 15 years ago, which he had referred to in his writing. At the time, drugs had been involved. And I suspected that might be the case again, I immediately booked a flight to LA for the next day with the thought that maybe I could convince him to come back to Vermont to dry out or less likely get him to go to detox rehab there in LA. When I got to LA and I saw him I immediately realized that he was not going to go willingly. I started to make arrangements with our other brother to fly out and help me possibly force Mike into checking himself into a hospital or detox center. I thought that I at least convinced Mike to just stay in his apartment and chill out for the next few days. But he snuck out on me while I was sleeping. He crashed his car before anyone could do anything to help him. Michael was 14 years sober or so it was believed but his brother had a strong suspicion that he was using again, on top of very likely having a manic episode. In 1999. He had been institutionalized for rehab having abused prescription drugs, including stimulants. His brother told the police that Michael didn't have suicidal tendencies, but that he quote, believed he was invincible, believing he could jump from a balcony and be okay. Prior to the tragic crash. Michael's family was trying to get him help. And it clearly didn't work. Unfortunately, yeah. Based on the behaviors people can have when they're in a manic episode, particularly if they're also using stimulants, they might make grandiose statements that aren't totally connected to reality. If he told someone he was on to the biggest story ever, that could have been his mania talking. And that's probably why his colleagues didn't take that email that he sent them. There's anything too serious. But for Alex and Biggs, they don't have the context. And so they think that everyone just meet must be too scared to talk about. Michael's brother was there and he knew what was going on. Michael's widow came on CNN and said, quote, you know, my gut here was that this is just a really tragic accident. And I'm very unlucky and the world was very unlucky. These were the people who are actually close to Michael and cared about him and we're respecting his memory in the wake of his death. Joe Biggs knew Hastings from his military days and they clearly kept in touch somehow, but he's overplaying that shit in order to cash in on his supposed good friend's death. It's pretty gross stuff. But it shouldn't be surprising. Yeah, Joe Biggs has been a piece of shit the entire time. He has been in the public eye from his introduction to the right wing media to his pizza gate shit to his Jade Helm coverage to his leadership in a gang that tried to overturn an election. So

Jordan (01:04:33.000)

yeah, if you told me he was bipolar, I would have gotten the grandiosity real fast. Come on, man. It is.

Dan (01:04:40.000)

He has a context that is behind this that is absent from any of the reporting. Yeah, and Joe Biggs doesn't know him that well, right. So he doesn't know all this stuff, or he's ignoring it. He obviously doesn't know the kind of episodes he was having immediate time right before his death, right. And so he's created a story in his head that is totally inappropriate. Yeah. And you can tell from like interviews with the family that I mean, they're gracious as hell because like, talking about the conspiracy stuff his brother was like, Yeah, I don't really pay attention to it and I don't like care he wasn't mad about it doesn't have respect for this stuff.

Jordan (01:05:23.000)

Boy, now I'm going back thinking about the emails I've sent on a manic episode wondering which one I would prefer to die after. As far as really fucking the world up. Jesus Christ and

Dan (01:05:38.000)

you know, in manic episodes, particularly exacerbated by substances like you can feel invincible, and you might feel like you can drive your car 120 miles an hour in a residential neighborhood. Honestly,

Jordan (01:05:52.000)

I will tell you this, most people who are on a manic episode are taking stimulants to calm themselves down. That's weird. It's I mean, it's the it's like it's like people with hyperactivity disorder taking Ritalin a stimulant, it's it's to, to keep you from going too far. Like, that's what keeps you sane.

Dan (01:06:10.000)

I think we've talked about this before that weird way that meds can have different effects on in different doses and on different people. Yep. It's

Jordan (01:06:17.000)

very different times. Yeah.

Dan (01:06:20.000)

So this context, I think, is really super important when you're, like, understanding and looking at the circumstances that this because, you know, devoid of a lot of context. You do have the ingredients of this conspiracy. Yeah. And ignoring the reality of the situation. is kind of a choice.

Jordan (01:06:41.000)

Yeah. No, definitely.

Dan (01:06:44.000)

So anyway, that's what they choose.

Jordan (01:06:45.000)

All you need. All you need to say is like, oh, yeah, a week before he made a surprise, $10,000 purchase? And I'd be like, Ah, I know this. They know this man. Ah,

Dan (01:06:56.000)

yeah. So Aleksa is agree. He's just decided that it was a bomb and murder.

Alex Jones (01:07:01.000)

I shed, we need to go talk to the police and the fire department. And if they're told not to talk to people, I said this on air over and over again, at a they try to suppress the police reports. The first reports, I said, ladies and gentlemen, it means national security pressure was put on him. This is NDA type stuff. And again, ladies and gentlemen, I happen to know, her family connections, and things that there have been federal hit teams in this country. They don't even know how are organized crime for a very long time. I'm gonna leave it at that.

Dan (01:07:35.000)

Yeah. So it gets its federal hit team. Yeah.

Jordan (01:07:39.000)

I mean, you know,

Dan (01:07:40.000)

I don't know if they were, like, sealing the the police report as much as like, maybe you didn't ask. Yeah. Or maybe the wrong person asked the wrong department or something. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's available. I've found it. Yeah. But I can't speak for in 2013. You know, like, I don't know if it was widely available to everyone them. Now. That's a good point. But I assume that, you know, legitimate journalists could probably get it. Maybe not Alex Jones.

Jordan (01:08:12.000)

I mean, they they figured out that the FBI killed Fred Hampton pretty quick. It took a while but it was pretty quick.

Dan (01:08:19.000)

So in this next clip, Alex, just does a misrepresentation work.

Alex Jones (01:08:24.000)

He said, Look, the family I've been to the funeral. There, they're scared, but the wife is saying she wants to bring down whoever did this. You think that'd be national news? No news coverage of him saying that on the show two weeks later. Okay.

Dan (01:08:40.000)

So this thing about wanting to take down whoever did this to Michael, that's not something we can really attribute to his wife, Elise Jordan, right. This is something that Alex will cite as her words Okay, the only source on this as Joe big saying that she said it to him right. And his credibility isn't good. Zero. It's zero. When you consider her CNN interview and blanket dismissal of conspiracy theories around the death. It really doesn't seem like Biggs is accurately conveying what she said. Which is disrespectful. This whole thing is very disrespectful.

Jordan (01:09:12.000)

Right and Alex to do this, yeah,

Dan (01:09:15.000)

if you are his good friend, allowing Alex to play these games. Yep. Is shit. Yep.

Jordan (01:09:21.000)

And all they're going to do because here's what you have to say. Eventually. It's they got to her. You know, that's why she's telling all these things. 100% a moment you say that you have removed her as a human being from the world.

Dan (01:09:33.000)

I found a Paul Joseph Watson article. Yeah, about her CNN appearance. And he's like, mysteriously she's changed there it is. Yep. And it's like

Jordan (01:09:44.000)

you there is no there's no win. Oh, there's no way no heroes.

Dan (01:09:48.000)

So Biggs has some details that he's bringing to the table.

Alex Jones (01:09:51.000)

But we commend you Staff Sergeant big for being a good friend and good American and and investigating and I think a lot of credence has been added to your questioning now. What do you think of everything has transpired since we talked a week and a half ago, sir?

Joe Biggs (01:10:05.000)

Yeah, there's a lot of crazy things been popping up. I found out recently that the LAPD actually made a stop by Michael's house just a couple days prior. And they were spotted there. He was also spotted looking under his car a few days prior. So that itself is pretty, pretty fishy along with the fact that I called LAPD. And they told me there's nothing they can do. They wouldn't tell me anything. And it seemed as simple Are you it goes name, they all come and you're just just acted a bit, you know, unused?

Alex Jones (01:10:38.000)

Well, I'd say so by helping cover up, they begin to enter the galaxy of being accomplices, wow, walk through this, this is really newsworthy for everyone in the state of this country.

Dan (01:10:48.000)

So Joe is saying that the LAPD stopped by this appearance. But weirdly, by August, this would turn into the feds. There we go. All of this is based on just things that Joe Biggs is saying there's no corroborating evidence on this at all. And it's so weird how the details changed as he talked to Alex. And same thing for the looking under the car. There is no evidence that Joe's providing this and all reporting on this traces back solely to him, although I think he does obliquely cite a news crew in LA. Sure. Sure. Well, I don't know. That's not verifiable. Yeah. But I mean, honestly, that one could be true. Michael was having a manic episode news on stimulants. So I wouldn't be surprised if he had a seriously heightened state of paranoia. It's possible that he could have been seen looking at his car, but I don't think that means anything.

Jordan (01:11:36.000)

Honestly, he could have had one of those magnetic things because he left his keys in the house. Could be that's I've done that a million times. That's how it works. Yes,

Dan (01:11:46.000)

any number of variables? explained that being true if it's even true. Yeah. Also, maybe the LAPD couldn't disclose information to a random dude calling which now Joe is letting Alex report to the audience as proof that they're in on the cover up? That's not super cool. Yeah, not great stuff.

Jordan (01:12:01.000)

I appreciate that. Alex described him with the two things that I think he would be described as the least in real life, which is good friend and good American Great America. I think he's, I think he's proved himself to be a terrible friend. And he tried to overthrow America in

Dan (01:12:16.000)

though but he was doing it for sure. Because he was such a great friend. No, no, that

Jordan (01:12:20.000)

makes sense. That makes sense. Now, now that you said it like that,

Dan (01:12:23.000)

so now this clip sucks. I talked

Alex Jones (01:12:25.000)

to you via text a few days ago, you said you were gonna be talking to the police and calling the fire department walk through who you called, what happened? What unfolded?

Joe Biggs (01:12:33.000)

Well, I called and I called the coroner to to ask about where the body was. And they said that they had released it a while back. But when I'd spoken to the family, they hadn't received it yet. So that was pretty odd. And then when I called the LAPD and asked for a report, I said, What steps do I need to go through to file to get a copy of the police report on Michael Hastings death? And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, we need to transfer you. And then someone told me Well, we can't help you with this. And it just kind of got pushed around. I went from one person's call to another and

Alex Jones (01:13:09.000)

oh, that's not newsworthy that the body's missing. Obviously, they're gonna have to because you've been a commie jumped to missing you bad ID couldn't you caston and pick up the residue of an explosive?

Joe Biggs (01:13:22.000)

Um, well, what happened was they ended up apparently cremating the body.

Alex Jones (01:13:27.000)

Oh, whoa, you hadn't dropped them? Oh, they decided to do that.

Joe Biggs (01:13:32.000)

Yeah, I'm not sure I haven't heard back from his wife yet, if that's what they wanted, but I mean, I'm pretty sure that's something that he wouldn't have wanted. On fly. I mean, anybody would want their family to have an actual funeral? I don't

Dan (01:13:44.000)

legitimately nothing real was said in that clip. Yeah, Joe has no idea if the family wanted a cremation or if in fact, Michael himself did. He's just guessing. Further. He's allowing Alex to create these absurd conspiracy talking points off the things he's saying. And that's unacceptable. I mean, like, and these were things that became conspiracy theory talking point. Yeah. Joe says that the coroner said they released the body, but the family hadn't received it. But the timeframe of these conversations isn't clear. But Alex jumps in and puts two and two together that this means that they had to get rid of the body because if they didn't, it would test positive for explosive remnants. Sure. This is how Alex operates. And it's not as a sincere interviewer. He has a conclusion in mind that he's already decided to push as his narrative. In this case, it's that Michael Hastings was killed by a car bomb as retribution for his reporting or to stop him from reporting on the thing he was working on at the time. Everything that Joe says or any guests says really will be filtered through that narrative, and Alex will be constantly working to try and make whatever is said fit the narrative. Alex hears Joe say nonsense about the body and Alex decides to jump to the conclusion that the body is missing. So now the question is, why is the body missing within the narrative? What's the real isn't someone who would lose the body? It's obviously to cover up for the explosives. That's the story Alex is writing as a way to make every piece of information conform to his narrative. But none of its real. It's all completely imagined in his head.

Jordan (01:15:13.000)

I mean, and I chose letting him do it. Yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to claim some sort of expertise. But if I have understood all of the car bombings that I've ever studied in the past, like though, like the ones in in what was it like Ohio, the fucking troubles like you use a car bomb to publicly assassinate somebody and send a message that you have assassinated that person? Well, I mean, you're not car bomb somebody they and then cover it up.

Dan (01:15:40.000)

They think this is sending a message to the media.

Jordan (01:15:42.000)

But it's but that doesn't make any sense. If you want to, if you want to kill somebody in a car and make it look like an accident. The car is a bomb. True. I mean, I mean,

Dan (01:15:54.000)

I agree with what you're saying. But I also know that Alex thinks that it is a message still, even though there's a cover up. It's just not how you do it. It's a little weird. That's just weird. Also, as it turns out, the family did request the cremation. Yeah, that makes sense. There was a huge conspiracy blitz around the idea that they hadn't, which was reported by a local news person in San Diego named Kim Dvorak, based on something she heard from a quote, close family friend who I would bet anything is Joby goddamnit. The family wanted cremation after all the autopsy and toxicology results were done, which happened. Everything Joe and Alex are saying is disconnected from reality. It's just a real shame. Yeah, it's, and this is the this is like the point I want to make. Yeah, there's two things that are happening here. One is that Joe is allowing Alex to distort and twist everything he's saying in service of a bizarre and unhinged conspiracy, that he should know better than to do that this is not a sincere actor at work. Right? And then Alex, you can see the way that he's working. You know, you can see the way that he's taking these little pieces, and then recontextualizing them reframe them. Oh, the body is missing. Yeah. In trying to get it into ways that he can work with it. Yeah. You see those two trains running a sort of parallel?

Jordan (01:17:13.000)

Yeah, no, it's a little bit like the the price to entry for Biggs is to play a game of improv with with Alex. So

Dan (01:17:21.000)

dude, that's exactly what I that's exactly how I conceived of it is like the price of entry is allowing Alex to exploit his life. Yeah. The end like that is that's what it is. Yeah. It's almost like so many people got into this through a contest. Joe's getting an audition. Yep. By by being the person that Alex is distorting eight to create the these Hastings No,

Jordan (01:17:45.000)

it's like, you're good to play ball. That's what it is. It's bananas. Yeah.

Dan (01:17:51.000)

And, you know, through this, Joe kept coming on to talk about Michael Hastings shit. And then eventually he's hired as a reporter, and she's out and do his own thing and are doing some stuff like with Ferguson starts doing stuff with Jade Helm.

Jordan (01:18:05.000)

Yeah, he's a gate. He's ingratiate himself to the leader. And he gets fired. It's just been a disgrace, how many 1000s of years that we're going to do the same shit.

Dan (01:18:17.000)

So Michael's brother flew in and was there with him and experienced these, you know, the difficulties he was having in the last days. And Alex asks, when's the last time Joe talked to him?

Alex Jones (01:18:32.000)

Man, I tell you, when was the last time you physically talk to him? I mean, over the phone or in person rather than email? Michael? Yes.

Joe Biggs (01:18:43.000)

Probably three months ago.

Alex Jones (01:18:45.000)

Well, you knew him so well. And he was embedded with you for a long time. And he's one of the guys you know, he sent this email to what do you think he would be saying now, if this would have happened to another investigative journalist like himself? I don't think that's

Dan (01:18:59.000)

the answer. Alex wanted. I think that that kind of creates a perception of like, Oh, you guys knew each other. Maybe you weren't. They weren't as close as Yeah, you're not talking for three months.

Jordan (01:19:12.000)

Now. Your sweet spot is a week. Yeah, a week before is believable enough that people aren't like, Oh, are you really going to claim that you talked to him an hour before the car accident? You know, two weeks, two weeks? Yeah. No, but that's what I'm saying. Yeah, three months is too long.

Dan (01:19:27.000)

That's way too long. Way too long for the story that is being sold. Yeah. For the narrative. It's too long for him to have any purchase as somebody with insight information around this. Yeah. That is way too disconnected. You're an acquaintance. You're a friendly acquaintance. Yeah. And I believe that based on your time in Afghanistan, I believe I wouldn't ever wherever they were in 2008 in combat.

Jordan (01:19:49.000)

I would even accept the traditional comedian's the other day. You know, the old the old. Oh, yeah. This happened to me the other day was that three or four years ago, that would be last year could have been The other day, that would be bad. Yeah, I wouldn't do that one.

Dan (01:20:02.000)

So they start spitballing ideas that they are not going to ever do.

Alex Jones (01:20:07.000)

Well, what's gonna happen if a lot of people start dying like this? I think there'll be some pushback.

Joe Biggs (01:20:12.000)

Well, I mean, if my car blows up, then I guess we all know. They better start looking around.

Alex Jones (01:20:18.000)

Well, you know, buddy, we need to actually think about that. I think if we went out to Los Angeles, maybe we should go out to Los Angeles together. I'm not I don't think you're afraid. I'm not afraid. I'm actually afraid of giving into this fear. And if the family invited me, I will go and investigate.

Joe Biggs (01:20:34.000)

I'll jump and I'll jump in anyone's face. I don't care. I want to find out you will, too.

Jordan (01:20:39.000)

I'll go to you will, buddy.

Alex Jones (01:20:41.000)

Well, I think we I mean, your his friends that you've got some jurisdiction to do it. I know. I've got his watch contact info or email and the Twitter I know you've got her number and stuff, but I get it people haven't kids. This is getting scary wanting to give it some space. You know, she says she wants to bring down who did it but I'm not expecting a woman to no charge around. But I've told she has a lot of courage.

Dan (01:21:04.000)

Damn. Throwing some misogyny in the in there. Yeah, yeah. Alex, do not wait for that invitation from the family to come. Because I don't think it's based on everything that I've seen. I do not think they would be

Jordan (01:21:17.000)

you coming down to investigate? No, no, no, no, no. Who

Jordan (01:21:21.000)

is this? Woof woof woof man, people, people? Boy is the one thing that I don't want is for Infowars and Alex to just have Vikatan phone contact info? I bet they do. Oh, that's a good point. I

Dan (01:21:34.000)

bet they do. Yeah, yeah. Given the I'm just based on my website, but I've said this on the million page, background report they had on Lenny Posner. Good point, I imagine maybe they've done a background check on you. And I if they want it, they've got it. Yeah, gotcha. So there's another question for Joe and I think this is dumb.

Alex Jones (01:21:55.000)

I'm gonna give you the floor instead of me asking questions about other points you'd like to make or what you'd like to say to people out there a the cowards that are going along with this. And Howard, maybe those that were part of this because I don't know how they think they're going to have a future in a country this corrupt?

Joe Biggs (01:22:13.000)

Well, I know whoever did this, you know, you got me to look forward to seeing I'm gonna definitely find out what's going on because I want to pull back those. Those bad days. I'm gonna dig into that scab, and I'm gonna find out that dirt. And I'm going to come after him and bring it out into the media as fast as I can. Whatever I can find out I will.

Dan (01:22:31.000)

I think it's safe to say that Joe definitely didn't keep pushing for the truth on this until he uncovered it all. He allowed Alex to sensationalize his tenuous connection to a real story in a way that was disrespectful to the family of the deceased. And for that he got to become an Infowars employee where he went on to do a ton of terrible work before he was fired, and ended up having to try to do his own YouTube channel and do some stuff the right side broadcasting all well helming a violent street gang started by Gavin McInnes, where everyone has to name serials and not masturbate. It's an understatement to say that Joe lost his own plot. But that's because it was never his real plot. He wasn't a man on the hunt for the truth. He was looking for a way in and Alex gave it to him. So you know,

Jordan (01:23:12.000)

yeah, he just took a job interview. Yeah. I mean, that's is it that much different from being late? I mean, he goes in, he has this to bring to Alex Yeah. And then they do a little they do a little back and forth. And he's like, Okay, well, you're, you're good. And the

Dan (01:23:28.000)

interesting thing that I think about is like he was all over the place doing all of these interviews, and I don't think he was looking for a job at like RT or with Megyn Kelly or anything. I don't know if that was, like his initial intention. But some sort of a branding and being in the public eye. Definitely. That's to

Jordan (01:23:51.000)

be Yeah, I think he what most likely happened there is he wound up taking a job at Infowars after the attention dried up right to the point where the only way to get that boost, again, is to go to someone. And you

Dan (01:24:03.000)

know, it's so interesting that like, in Joe's later career, or whatever, you know, it's not really even talked about that much that He rose to prominence on Infowars as the guy who was good friends with Michael Hastings.

Jordan (01:24:20.000)

So there was it's, I mean, everything I've read about I think a lot of people specifically keep Infowars out of a lot of people credits Yeah, in order to give them the air of a big bad like Roger Stone in every article in 2018. None of them were like Roger Stone contributor to the War Room on

Dan (01:24:42.000)

Infowars host with Owen choice Exactly.

Jordan (01:24:45.000)

None of them none of them have portrayed him as the giant loser that he was they all try to build him up as the world traveling rat fucker. Right. You know, and Biggs is the same way. He's the big leader of the proud boys. He's the guy who will get into a fight with you

Dan (01:25:00.000)

doesn't take away from that reality to understand that he is also a war shithead. Right. But

Jordan (01:25:07.000)

but in the in the papers, that's kind of what they do. That's what

Dan (01:25:12.000)

I've seen at least maybe it just over complicates things. And yeah. Is Joe like in terms of the like, events of January 6, in particular? He's his employment in the past and four, is that relevant? Maybe? Maybe not sure. I'm not sure.

Jordan (01:25:27.000)

I mean, it seems relevant that he used to work at the same place that the other statistics conspiracy guy on frequently Yeah, that seems like the two of them have one massive connection.

Dan (01:25:40.000)

Yeah. And Stuart roads, his group was the Oathkeepers. About, like former police and military folks and maybe a retired Staff Sergeant. So it was almost certainly connected to the Okay, verse,

Jordan (01:25:52.000)

maybe, maybe we should look at the I don't know.

Dan (01:25:56.000)

Oh, and Alex was born on January 6, and leading a huge group of people. Yeah,

Jordan (01:26:00.000)

I mean, ultimately, that's gonna be the problem with all the prosecution for January 6, and all that stuff is that the people who have the ability to make one happen again, are the only ones not receiving consequences for it.

Dan (01:26:14.000)

Maybe, yeah. So Alex gives his version of what happened with Hastings, and Joe just goes along with it.

Alex Jones (01:26:23.000)

These are he had found out how bad they really are. He'd had that moment of conscience, that he was gonna go all the way and they blow him up. And the issue is that if they kill you, they kill me, it becomes more and more obvious. This has happened a lot in history. All that matters is they're gonna get taken down. If we all cower, then they're gonna win and start killing whoever they want.

Joe Biggs (01:26:46.000)

Yeah, well, I'm not gonna cower. I'll tell you that. I'll stand right in their face and tell him how it is.

Alex Jones (01:26:51.000)

While they're cowards. They'll put a another car bomb on you, but they probably aren't gonna do that. I mean, he had shot big for them to do that. And it was a message to the media. Because the media is not stupid. They know they killed him. Yeah, see

Dan (01:27:02.000)

the message. So yeah, Joe just allows Alex to basically hijack and take over this entire thing as a conspiracy and he seems like an incredibly willing participant. And

Jordan (01:27:13.000)

yeah, we've got we've got a message being sent to the media the body is missing. Everything is a cover up. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Dan (01:27:21.000)

And whether or not it was Joe's intention to convey those messages. He is the person who is creating the

Jordan (01:27:30.000)

air of legitimacy to anything that Alex makes up because

Dan (01:27:34.000)

that too, and the raw materials from which Alex is creating totally bullshit talking points. He is willingly going along with it.

Jordan (01:27:43.000)

I brought you 10,000 pounds of clay. Will you make a Lie with me?

Dan (01:27:47.000)

Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. So Joe would go on to get a job at Infowars and he would fit in real nice over there. Not only was he completely unbothered by lying, but he also had one of the other defining characteristics of people that work at that company being a real asshole. Nope. Oh, a steadfast inability to criticize creative. That's fair. So I found a film review that Joe Biggs did while he was Oh my God. So he has some thoughts about the movie Logan,

Joe Biggs (01:28:17.000)

god dammit.

Dan (01:28:18.000)

That's my favorite X file. Yeah, no.

Joe Biggs (01:28:21.000)

Brand new movie out called Logan starring Hugh Jackman. It's the last movie about Wolverine. And in this movie, the bad guys name is Donald. And it's about a bunch of little illegal kids. And they're illegal. Because in the year 2026, it's illegal to be a mutant. And these little illegal kids just escaped this horrible military compound in Juarez, Mexico. And they finally get away from the bad guys who run that medical facility in a military facility. And they get to America and Donald's there, and he's running around trying to chase them and kill them and snatch them up and, and do test to him with this huge militarized police force. And they just want to get to Canada because that's where Trudeau is, and it's the safest place to be. Oh, my God, the propaganda the subliminal messaging in the media in the movies right now is through the roof.

Dan (01:29:10.000)

The villain in that movie was Donald Pierce, who's been a Marvel character since 1980. He's specifically designed as he was inspired by Donald Sutherland, apparently,

Jordan (01:29:20.000)

of of all the criticisms to have towards this movie, if I understand it correctly. His is somehow an anti immigration criticism.

Dan (01:29:31.000)

So I soaked and a criticism that they're making the villain Donald Trump.

Jordan (01:29:36.000)

Sure, sure. Sure. I understand that we're just not going to deal with them. Just I can't handle just oh, that name is the same. I can't I can't handle that. Yes, it isn't immigration. Right. Right. Right. So it's an immigration thing. But again, his problem appears to be that they are not staying in Mexico,

Dan (01:29:54.000)

in the place where they're being tortured and experiment right,

Jordan (01:29:56.000)

right. Right. But like, Shouldn't your problem Shouldn't you problem with the movie be that they don't want to go to the United States, because they want to not go to the want to go to Eton. They want to go as far away from you can you people as possible because you're the ones who own the torture murder machine?

Dan (01:30:13.000)

Yeah, the the like the elegant solution would be like, give them an assist. Yeah. Why aren't people coming to their aid totally stopping Donald from hurting them? Well, they make passage, the United States go where they're safe, give

Jordan (01:30:28.000)

them a score. You don't want them in your country. That's your deal.

Dan (01:30:33.000)

They don't want to be there in the movies.

Jordan (01:30:35.000)

Just help them go. Right. What are you doing? You're like, Nah, no, no, just because they don't want to be in our country doesn't mean we don't want them to be tortured in some other country.

Dan (01:30:44.000)

But it is a little bit strange, too. Because like, I mean, the fundamental tension in every X man thing is the idea of it being illegal to be a mutant. Yeah. Like the prospect of that happening, right? People stigmatizing mutants, right. The idea that Joe Biggs is like, this is something like that guy. It's unique to this movie. No, it's It's that

Jordan (01:31:09.000)

that's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. Yeah. The whole thing. That's it.

Dan (01:31:13.000)

Yeah, he didn't get it.

Jordan (01:31:15.000)

I mean, it is. It makes sense though. It makes sense that he physically like on a on a physical I imagine on an electron level. Yeah. Cannot understand that

Dan (01:31:30.000)

are immigrants from Mexico. Donald Pierce is Donald Trump. Right? Logan is Bernie Sanders I guess. And Canada is Trudeau

Jordan (01:31:42.000)

and the clone of Logan is how deep he was.

Dan (01:31:52.000)

Joe starts complaining about the immigration situation. And he because of bloke because of luck because of Logan, the whole thing turns into a screed about immigrants.

Jordan (01:32:04.000)

Man, any movie other than logon. That just doesn't make any sense. But anyway,

Dan (01:32:08.000)

he ends up saying something that is a little ironic in hindsight haha.

Joe Biggs (01:32:13.000)

Now if you come here illegally, you are criminal. Doesn't matter if you've committed felonies or murder or anything like that. You're that's already a criminal offense, you're now a criminal. So when people say well, we're only going to get rid of the, you know, the people with criminal backgrounds that are here illegally. No, if you're here illegally, you are a criminal. If I go somewhere illegally, I am a criminal so they don't get any free pass. I'm sorry.

Dan (01:32:36.000)

Who? Like the

Jordan (01:32:39.000)

that's sure is ironic. Boy, I gotta go back and listen to everything I've ever said and try and scrub shit from the internet that might come back to bite me later on.

Dan (01:32:50.000)

Podcast might be able to use to mock you.

Jordan (01:32:55.000)

What a fuck and faceplant. Yeah, oh boy.

Dan (01:32:59.000)

Doing a review of logon oh my god, pointing a finger at himself.

Jordan (01:33:04.000)

You know, I just don't even know. The amount of times we jump back and forth through different eras and see these people have not bear knuckled knockdown drag out fights with themselves from 10 years ago. It's mind boggling.

Dan (01:33:19.000)

Oh man think it's telling because their principles don't really exist. Yeah. Yeah. Barry is just sort of a sort of a defensiveness, a oppositional defiance, and basically just anger. That's kind of all that's going on.

Jordan (01:33:35.000)

Yeah, all that I would do if he went back into his as that'd be like, Hey, Jordan, learn all these lessons faster at it. That's what I would do. I would hope

Dan (01:33:43.000)

I would hope that like playing stuff from from the past of mine and just be like, Yeah, I learned that lesson. I do that. Let me explain to you have grown,

Jordan (01:33:56.000)

or whatever. People caught that they called me out on it I learned from now I don't do that anymore. Now that's called the learning process. Poor Joe.

Dan (01:34:05.000)

Poor you wait, we come to the end of this. And this is the longest I've ever spent thinking about Joe big. Yeah, me too by a wide margin. And actually, I'd kind of intended for this to be more all encompassing. Like I wanted to talk a little bit about like the Jade Helm stuff and the pizza gate stuff in more detail. But I realized I think we talked about the pizza gate already. Sure. JNL might not actually be as interesting. And this this kind of felt like it had a no I

Jordan (01:34:31.000)

like this. I think you nailed it. Thanks. As long as it ends with a critique of Logan. Everything that comes before is great.

Dan (01:34:37.000)

He has my touch on it. But for now, this is where we're at. What

Jordan (01:34:43.000)

is it? What is it like to watch a movie in their brains? What movie are you watching?

Dan (01:34:49.000)

I think if I recall correctly, I think they have a decent review of Winter Soldier. Kevin in America winters RIGHT.

Jordan (01:34:59.000)

OKAY. I think well, it is the most conspiracy laden of the Marvel film. Yeah,

Dan (01:35:04.000)

I think I don't want to say this and be held to it.

Jordan (01:35:09.000)

But I guess this is gonna be five years from now people play in visually, I feel like

Dan (01:35:13.000)

their review of it was it made more sense. Okay. Okay. Because you know what I think Jakari Jackson's comics

Jordan (01:35:21.000)

is a comics guy. Yeah. He regardless of what they all have going on, he's like, Yeah, but listen, I like the Silver Age. Okay, at the moment, at the

Dan (01:35:28.000)

end of the video, he's like, you know, the people who are in the cage that's actually Magneto.

Jordan (01:35:34.000)

Okay, there we go. All right. Jakari. Everybody, so

Dan (01:35:38.000)

I think they might be able to understand some of the comic tropes, right? Maybe fly palettes and everyone

Jordan (01:35:45.000)

else is like, you know what, why are the bad guys are the one who torture children.

Dan (01:35:49.000)

Yeah. Makes you think makes you think. So anyway, good luck. Good luck. We'll be back. Until then, we have websites.

Jordan (01:36:01.000)

Yes, we do. It's now the trade.com. Yep. We're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's at knowledge underscore fight.

Dan (01:36:06.000)

Yep. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Neil. I'm Leo MDC X clerk. Oh, you know what?

Unknown Speaker (01:36:11.000)

And now here comes the sex robots.

Alex Jones (01:36:14.000)

Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.

Joe Biggs (01:36:18.000)

Well, Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.