Transcript/606: June 18-19, 2003

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N-N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight

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Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

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Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray.

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I have great respect for Knowledgefight.

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Knowledgefight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.

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Knowledgefight.

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I am so sick of them posing as, uh..

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Knowledge Fight, knowledgefight.com.

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I love you.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight,

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I'm Dan.

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I'm Jordan.

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We're couple dudes, like to sit around,

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worship at the altar of Selene

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and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.

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Oh, indeed we are, Dan.

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Dan.

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Yes, sir.

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Dan.

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Jordan.

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Quick question for you.

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What's up?

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What's your bright spot today?

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My bright spot today, Jordan, is I'm going to be

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taking a trip this weekend.

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Ooh.

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I'm going to be going to visit a friend,

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very, you know, sort of rare trip kind of thing.

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Yeah, I know.

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Time off.

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Yeah.

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And so, I mean, this is a bright spot

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because I like, I'm excited about that.

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Of course.

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Also, I bring this up because, you know,

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because of this we'll, our episodes are going to be out

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on Wednesday.

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Right, right, right, right.

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Friday next week.

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Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So here's the announcement of that.

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My bright spot, I cannot even enjoy without couching it

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within an apology for not doing the show for you.

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I apologize.

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My brain is a mess.

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Deeply.

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For doing one thing for me.

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And still putting out two episodes next week.

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And still putting out two episodes.

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Tons of people put out one a week, buddy.

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I have a problem.

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I have a number of problems, but this is one of them.

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It's up there.

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So yeah, what's your bright spot?

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I got a rare double bright spot,

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but it's also the same bright spot.

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Well, we can't plug your standup show.

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No, it's already happened.

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Yeah, by the time this episode comes out.

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That's the point.

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I did not plug it on purpose.

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I have not done it for two years.

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Do not know what's going to happen.

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You did mention it on the show.

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Oh, did I?

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And you mentioned it on Twitter.

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Yeah, but that was like months ago.

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I think you, didn't you retweet Druffki posting about it?

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Oh yeah, but that was today.

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Come on.

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Well, you're still promoting.

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Fair enough.

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No, there's that,

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but also the most important bright spot is on Friday.

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I found out last night that Maria Bamford is in town.

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Oh, wow.

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At the Den.

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And so my favorite comic of 20 years,

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who I have never been able to see live.

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Like I remember her first Comedy Central half hour.

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Yeah.

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Like I can still do the cult leader bit

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from the first half hour.

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And I finally, I get to see her live.

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Oh, that's great.

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I'm so excited.

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That's great.

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And you're back into standup.

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Maybe you could get a set in.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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She's looking for an opener?

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Hey, just so you know,

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I just, you know,

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I just did my first set in a while back last night.

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I don't know if you need somebody.

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Yeah, look, I know there's nobody else available.

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I know you've got good comics,

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but I'm me in case you were wondering.

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So yeah, I hope you have a great time.

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I'm so excited.

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It's gonna be great.

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Jordan, today we have an episode to do.

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And because we're, you know,

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not gonna be having an episode on Monday.

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Sure.

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I was really hoping to have a present day episode to do.

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Of course.

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To catch up,

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see what Alex has been doing in the real world.

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Stay in the present day.

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Yeah.

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As you know, we had a,

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on Wednesday we had a 2003 episode,

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but unfortunately Alex has been out of studio.

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Owen Schroyer has been hosting.

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Oh yeah?

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For the week.

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I can't think of any reason

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why Alex would need to be out of studio

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other than probably furious eight hour a day

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meetings with lawyers.

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I'm not entirely sure what it is either.

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Maybe he's selling his house for a fourth time.

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Sure, sure.

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But whatever the case is,

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there's not really anything to go over per se.

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Right.

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So we were in a bind, you know,

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like we're not gonna have an episode on Monday.

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Right.

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We can't not have an episode on Friday

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because Alex is out of town.

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A long weekend might kill you, Dan.

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Exactly.

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A long weekend might kill you.

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I have to get a hit of work.

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Yes, exactly.

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I need one.

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Come on up, Jonesy.

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Just fry it up in that spoon and go to work.

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So I was trying to figure out like,

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well, what can we do?

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Maybe a Jim Baker, nothing good there.

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Sure.

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Went to Project Camelot Land,

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didn't find anything worthwhile there.

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Bummer.

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So I decided we're gonna stick in 2003.

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Okay.

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And we're gonna keep going through June 2003.

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We're gonna be talking about the 18th and the 19th today.

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All right.

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And this started out terrible.

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Oh.

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Awful.

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Oh.

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Unlistenable.

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Maybe a long weekend bad.

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Boring.

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Ooh.

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Just trash.

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Yeah.

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And then it heated up.

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Okay.

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And I have to tell you that this is one

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of the most revelatory episodes we will ever do.

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

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Accidentally found in the mire

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of just unlistenable garbage.

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Sure.

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So we'll take care of that.

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Everyone listening, you stop your cars in traffic right now.

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I was really hoping to avoid that kind of language.

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Yeah, I know.

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But yeah, essentially.

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Yeah, I know, I got it.

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So before we get to that, let's take a little moment

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to say hello to some new wonks.

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Oh, that's a great idea.

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So first, Emery, who's Celine Worshipping Cats

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made them click this button.

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Thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Emery.

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Thank you.

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Next, Dan is naming his cat, Next Cat, Nonk.

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Thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much.

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Next, Erica from Louisville.

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Thank you so much, you're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks, Erica.

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That was spelled out phonetically.

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That wasn't me.

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Right.

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Right.

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Next, Louise the Hobbitch, thank you so much,

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you are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you, Louise.

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Thank you, Next, Barkie Donaldson, thank you so much,

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you're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thanks Barkie Donaldson.

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Next, if being a feminist makes me a witch

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and witches are the brides of Satan,

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am I technically the bride of cyber Satan?

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Thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you very much.

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And finally, coming out of my cage and I've been doing just fine, I'm Mr. Bright Spot.

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Thank you so much, you're an out of policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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I decided to sing that one.

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Minus points.

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I'm Mr. Bright Spot.

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Minus points!

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That's fun.

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Okay, that is fun.

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So Jordan, today we're staying in 2003 and we have two out of context drops.

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One is an out of context drop that I think is just like sort of standard out of context

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drop business.

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The other is one that I think will be very helpful in the future.

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Here's the normal one.

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You know, it takes a lot for somebody to set themselves on fire and I don't think it's

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a good thing to do.

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Okay.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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I mean, I have not heard a good argument, yeah, but okay.

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I think in terms of Alex's advice, that's about as good as it gets.

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You know, things have to be pretty bad to get there.

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Now this will come in very handy in the future.

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Let's talk to Dan in Illinois and Spencer in Ohio.

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Dan, you're on the air.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah, Dan in Illinois.

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No!

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No!

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God damn it!

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No!

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Go ahead, Dan, you're on the air.

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I was listening to that and I was like, huh?

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Dan in Illinois?

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Hello.

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I knew the episode was from 2003 and it still was like, hey, that's me.

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You weren't even in Illinois!

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Nope.

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Alright, so here we go.

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We're going to start on the 18th.

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This is a slog.

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This was like really bad at the beginning.

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Maybe the first two hours of the show are real trouble.

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I think it's fun.

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03 seems to have a dual kind of like being a font of out of context drops nonstop.

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We're getting two almost every time we go back there, but also being inexplicably boring

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for long stretches of time.

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It is sometimes walking through like knee deep mud for sure.

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For pearls.

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Yes.

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And sometimes you find them, sometimes you don't.

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And one of the other things that I was struck by, I was like, this is so much, I've mentioned

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this, this is so much more of a radio show back then.

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You know, he's like hitting the headlines and then going to calls and he'll have a guest.

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It's jumping around enough that, you know, it keeps your attention mostly.

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But I was reflecting on how when we'd go to the 2008 stuff, he's just like singing along

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to country and having a great time.

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It's not that.

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No.

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It's, it's kind of like, he doesn't have as much freedom or like joie de vivre yet at

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this point.

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That comes later and he starts singing country and then his life completely falls apart.

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This is still like, I'm trying to be a professional.

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This is before he's comfortable enough to be like, I'm letting it all hang loose.

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This is on the upswing.

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Singing the highway, man.

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Yeah.

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Totally.

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And I miss that.

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I miss that freedom.

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I do like, I do like that we can track ups and downs throughout his time and we can just

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go to like, I'm feeling in a real bad mood.

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Let's go to 2008 and sing some highway, man.

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So I would say that the beginning of this show and most of it on the 18th could be summed

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up as like, Alex is a cab.

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All the senior people, all the senior major detectives in major cities, almost all of

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them from our research are liars who will frame you, who will deal drugs, who will take

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your property, who will kill you and nothing will happen to them.

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They run the hit men, they run the drugs, they run the prostitution, they're criminals.

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It's just constantly talking about how evil the cops are.

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That's bananas.

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Yeah.

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I hate it so much.

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Yeah.

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This was a specific clip about like detectives, but like he's going off on cops.

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Yeah, you know.

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Pretty hard.

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But it's also boring.

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Sometimes, sometimes I feel like the right's entire moral philosophy is just like, whatever

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the left likes today, I must kill.

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Like if we could, because the right has the purity of focus that comes along with having

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no distractions but hating the left, right?

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If we could just get smart enough to make them hate the right things by us doing the

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wrong things, then we'd win.

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This is a bad strategy because then we have to do all the wrong things.

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That's a good point.

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And you run the risk of them being like, oh, I like that.

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Yeah, that's a good point.

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They're just joining in.

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It is a long shot.

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Yeah.

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It is a Hail Mary.

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Like I'm saying, this is pretty boring.

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It's mostly a lot of like shit-talking the cops, but it does lead to some interesting

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things.

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Like Alex gets a call here who has an interesting theory about the SWAT teams in the United

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States.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Barney in Maryland.

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Barney, you're on the air.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah, how you doing, Alex?

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Pretty good, sir.

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I suspect that the reason that the brutal so-called SWAT teams wear ski masks is because

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they are criminals and that they are used over and over again.

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Well, they say that it's to protect their anonymity from retaliation and they cover

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their badge numbers now routinely.

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Police walk around Austin with their badges covered up with tape and it's all part of

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the new freedom, sir.

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Well, they don't want you to recognize them because they use them over and over again

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all around the country, but taken from the art of war, it doesn't matter whether the

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king has a hundred thousand man army, as long as the people think that he has a hundred

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thousand man army.

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So that's what they're doing.

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They just fluff with us.

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You understand what's going on here?

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I can't begin to describe how excited I am about this.

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The suicide squad is the SWAT team.

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This is amazing.

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There's one SWAT team for the whole country.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Maybe two.

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They're just tricking us.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There's a few.

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There's a few there.

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There's like a rape team and a blue team.

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And that guy's new conspiracy is like, aha, it's only like 15 guys.

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I love it.

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And they're all criminals.

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That's the best.

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Yes.

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It's the best of the best.

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Look, it's the A team.

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Let's just be honest.

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Sure.

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Swats?

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Nuh-uh.

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A. That's what we do.

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No, it's the suicide squad.

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Yeah, there's that.

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Because they're criminals.

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It's just, it's nonsense.

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I like that though.

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I enjoy these out of left field theories that sometimes will come up.

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That's fantastic.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, on a recent 2003 episode, we talked about the case of Dr. Charles Sell, who was that

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dentist who brought up all the issues of the involuntary medicating because he was not

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fit to stand trial and refused to take medication.

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And as we discussed on that episode, in June 2003, the Supreme Court ruled that he couldn't

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be involuntarily medicated.

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Now here's how Alex covers that.

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Okay.

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I'm not going to take any more calls.

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I want to cover news.

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But talking about Supreme Court rulings, there weren't a bunch of them this week.

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They said that they can forcibly drug Dr. Charles T. Sell, the doctor.

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Did they?

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For trial with anti-psychotics, though those anti-psychotics may cause death.

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That's the ruling.

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There just can't be a high probability they'll cause death.

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So they can now grab you, hold you for longer than the sentence would even be, and forcibly

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drug you in solitary confinement.

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So this is actually the opposite of the truth.

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Yeah.

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The Supreme Court ruling in Sell versus the United States found that the courts had not

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established proper justification to involuntarily medicate Dr. Sell.

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Alex is reporting the opposite of the truth, or what I call a lie.

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Yeah.

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Alex is also making up that the Supreme Court ruled that people can be drugged as long as

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it's not too risky in terms of side effects.

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The consideration of side effects is definitely part of the equation, but if Alex had taken

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even a couple minutes to read the court's decision, he would know that the version of

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this he's pitching is fraudulent.

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The court has a very narrow window of cases that could lend themselves to involuntarily

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medicating a defendant.

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From the text, quote, first a court must find that important governmental interests are

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at stake.

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The government's interest in bringing to trial an individual accused of a serious crime is

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important.

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However, courts must consider each case's facts in evaluating this interest because

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special circumstances may lessen its importance, e.g. a defendant's refusal to take drugs may

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mean lengthy confinement in an institution, which would diminish the risks of freeing

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without punishment one who has committed a serious crime.

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In addition to its substantial interest in timely prosecution, the government has a committed

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interest in assuring a defendant a fair trial.

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Second, the court must conclude that forced medication would significantly further those

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concomitant state interests.

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It must find that medication is substantially likely to render the defendant competent to

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stand trial and substantially unlikely to have side effects that will interfere significantly

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with the defendant's ability to assist counsel in conducting a defense.

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Third, the court must conclude that involuntary medication is necessary to further those interests

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and find that alternative, less intrusive treatments are unlikely to achieve substantially

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the same results.

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Fourth, the court must conclude that administering the drugs is medically appropriate.

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So there are a number of considerations that are in this ruling, and so these are the factors

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that they have, and in the decision they found that the lower courts who had ordered him

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to be medicated did not achieve any of the standards, and so they overturned the lower

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court's decisions, and it's the reverse of what I was saying.

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It did it the way that it does.

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Yeah, Alex is a lazy fucking liar.

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It's outrageous.

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Yeah, that just seems like he was like, uh, I don't really care what they say.

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I think the point is, I'm going to say this.

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I think that his argument would be that, okay, yeah, all right, hear me out.

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So the decision says that they're overturning the decision to involuntarily medicate Dr.

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Cell, but they're also saying that there are narrow circumstances that you can medicate

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somebody in, so that means they're going to do it anyway.

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Right.

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Now, I respect that.

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However, you also said that they are going to do it to Dr. Cell.

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Right, because those narrow circumstances, they're going to make it, that's just them

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saying that they're going to do it anyway.

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Yeah, I know, it's frustrating.

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It's very dumb.

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Um, so anyway, Alex is a cab, and this applies even to the FBI, and let's be clear, these

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are not like the higher ups at the FBI.

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This isn't Comey.

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This isn't Mueller.

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Again, I know three FBI agents in Austin because I'm a friend of the other children or neighbors

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and they all live in 500,000 to million million dollar houses.

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They all belong to the finest yacht clubs and country clubs.

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They all drive brand new Cadillacs and Mercedes.

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They're a bunch of drug-dealing trash.

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And I am sick of them.

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Sick of these FBI agents that he knows in Austin.

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I am so tired of the stereotype of the obscenely wealthy FBI agent.

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Uh-huh.

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The garishly rich.

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Could not stop blowing money, FBI agent, that everyone knows from TV and movies in real

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life.

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Alex knows three of them.

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Right.

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So there's another bit of news that Alex is going on about other than just rambling about

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how bad cops are.

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Hey, that's fine.

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Roe sues to overturn Roe v. Wade decision.

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Now this is a story of how you can always come back from ignorance, come back from the

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deception, and join humanity and decency.

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Wow.

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So Jane Roe in the Roe v. Wade case was a woman named Norma McCourtney.

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Mm-hmm.

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Norma McCorvey.

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Her identity as the woman in the case wasn't a secret by 2003, and at that point she'd

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already undergone a public conversion to Christianity.

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As the person whose name is on the case that legalized abortion, she was exactly the sort

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of person the anti-abortion movement was desperate to court.

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Oh, man.

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That's a huge get for them.

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And they did.

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But all along it wasn't really all that clear cut.

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From a piece about her legacy in the Washington Post, quote, in the 1990s when McCorvey was

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on their team, she would tell evangelical leaders that she supported a woman's right

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to terminate her pregnancy within the first trimester, the procedure that accounts for

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the majority of all abortions.

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Quote, we managed that by saying she's a brand new convert.

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She needs time to mature in her faith and in her understanding of the pro-life ethic,

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Schenk says.

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Quote, we thought just give her a little time and she'll mature.

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Eventually they got her to stop saying it publicly, but they didn't know whether she'd

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actually changed her mind.

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Flash forward to 2020 and a documentary gets released called AKA Jane Roe, where director

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Nick Sweeney interviewed McCorvey.

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And since she died before the film was finished, her statement could appropriately be called

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a deathbed confession.

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And she also said, quote, this is my deathbed confession.

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Why would she say that?

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Because she was about to make a deathbed confession.

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Oh, that seems like the only reason you would say it.

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In the documentary, she admitted that she wasn't actually ever anti-abortion.

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Quote, I took their money and they put me out in front of the camera and told me what

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to say and that's what I'd say.

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To this, Sweeney replied asking, quote, it was all an act and her response, quote, yeah.

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In that Washington Post piece, Rob Schenk, an anti-abortion activist in the 90s, who's

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the guy who had that quote from the passage I read earlier, he worked with McCorvey and

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has since softened his position on abortion.

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He said that seeing her confession was shocking, quote, not because of what it revealed about

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her, but what it revealed about me and the movement.

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She forced me to be honest with myself.

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He had to be honest about the fact that they used her as a prop and that's what Alex is

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doing right now.

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Yeah.

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And honestly, Jane Rowe's opinion on abortion rights shouldn't really be held up as any

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more important than anyone else's.

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No, I mean, she's probably the smartest one involved in all of this.

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She was playing both sides for everything they got, man.

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She's smart as hell.

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I think that that is some of the sense you get if you read up a little bit.

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I like that, yeah.

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And I mean, granted her name is on the, or her pseudonym is on the actual case, but it's

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not like her saying, aha, I've changed my mind.

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That doesn't change the principles that the decision is based on.

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No, exactly.

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That's why she was like, fuck yeah, I've already got it done.

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Now I've got a million billion dollars waiting for me to lie to people.

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It's so easy.

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It's a PR thing.

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It's a PR victory for the anti-abortion folk, but it doesn't mean anything in terms of whether

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you're pro-life or pro-choice.

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And the anti-abortion folk know it, she knows it, everybody involved knows it except for

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the people they're trying to sell.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So Alex gets to some news about Zechariah Moussaoui.

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Oh, what's he up to?

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He's in jail.

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He wants to talk to Congress about how he didn't do it and such.

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Did he not do it?

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So look, leaving that aside, this is one of the more shocking things I've heard on the

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show.

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Okay.

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Zechariah Moussaoui seeks Congress appearance.

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The only man charged a connection with the September 11th attacks has asked to testify

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before the US Congress.

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Zechariah Moussaoui claims that he and the suspected hijackers were under surveillance

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by the FBI before September 11th and the US intelligence agencies allowed the attacks

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to happen.

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This was the latest in a series of handwritten motions by Mr. Moussaoui to the judge overseeing

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the case.

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Yeah.

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The government ran the attacks.

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There were no one on board those aircraft, folks.

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Oh boy.

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What?

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Okay.

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All right.

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So.

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So we've got both Moussaoui being like, it was the government who did it, man.

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Yeah.

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Totes.

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And then Alex being like, that isn't even how much the government did it.

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You're not even real.

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There's nobody who was on the plane.

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There's nobody there.

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All right.

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Okay.

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I thought that was an interesting thing to hear.

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I like it.

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And I was very disappointed that he didn't expound on this.

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There was nobody on the planes.

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Nobody.

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There was nobody on the planes.

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I would talk about this now, but it comes back up later and we'll get to it then.

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Do you know how they got into the air?

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How's that?

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They didn't.

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No pilot.

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Giant slingshot.

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No.

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Autopilot.

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Boom.

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Gone.

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The argument is remote control, but-

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Oh well, of course.

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Throughout this episode-

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My argument is slingshot.

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It's valid.

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Throughout this episode, Alex is teasing about some announcement that he's going to

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make.

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Sure.

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And I actually didn't think that it meant anything the first time I heard it, but he

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kept doing it.

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So I went back, and here's the first time he does it.

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Got a warning to all the listeners, and I want to expose some more of the globalist

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master plan of operations from my detailed understanding from my years of study and analysis

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of the enemy.

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Of the enemy combatants, the outside force overthrowing our republic, brainwashing our

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police, institutionalizing massive systematic corruption-

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Sure.

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And control of allied crime syndicates under their control.

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They have control of the ones under their control?

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Some of the other news I want to get to is Roe sues to overturn Roe v. Wade.

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So yeah, Alex has got this warning.

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Yeah.

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That's very exciting.

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Yeah.

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Whenever there's a warning, I would like to be warned.

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You gotta know.

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Yeah, it's big stakes.

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And so-

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What are you being warned about, though?

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We don't know.

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He's teasing that there's a warning.

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That doesn't make sense.

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Right.

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So now back to a ways into the show.

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Okay.

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And here, he's teasing it again.

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What?

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I've got a particularly important warning for all the listeners and some key analysis

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on the new world order plan, so please stay with us for the duration of this hour, this

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third and final hour.

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For the next five, ten minutes, I want to bring Jack Brownrigg up.

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He hasn't been on for a couple months with us from Midas Resources to talk about gold-

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Yeah.

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He teases the warning again, but instead of getting to it, he has the gold sale.

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Oh, that's the good shit.

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That's the good shit.

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Hey, guess what?

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I'm going to prime you to buy gold.

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I'm just going to tell you how great gold is, especially if, say, something negative

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were to happen to the rest of the world.

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I have a very vague, non-specific warning to give you.

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And also, gold is on sale.

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Hey, listen, Dan, I have got a lot to tell you.

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Some things are coming that you're going to want to be really aware of.

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First, though, I'm going to tell you about how great guns are.

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Now, I don't want to warn you about what I need to warn you about.

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I'm just going to let you know.

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That would be no good, because he's not selling guns.

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Yeah, that's true.

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His show is not broadcast on a network that's owned by a gun sales company, as opposed to

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him being on Midas Resources.

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That's fair.

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Fucking smooth.

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Love it.

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That one's good.

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So, Alex, on this episode, along with being ACAB, he's very much not getting the grasp

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of Supreme Court decisions.

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Not really understanding them.

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So he fucked up a Dr. Sell one.

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Yeah, way wrong on that.

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And now he's got another one that he's totally wrong about.

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I'd be interested to see what the actual comments were from the judge.

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Well, I've got the article here.

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It happened last week, and they said that the officer just can't use it in court, but

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they can deny medical care when you've been shot or hurt and ask questions.

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I mean, that's what they said.

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And there wouldn't be any kind of repercussions to the officer?

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No.

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You can have your arm cut off, bleeding to death, and they can stand over you, saying,

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answer my questions, or I won't call the ambulance.

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And if the person is delirious or not, I just, I don't know.

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Well, imagine where it goes from here.

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It sounds like the listener or the caller is saying, like, I don't believe this at the

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end there, but he's not.

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He's just saying, I cannot believe that we've come to this point.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Outrageous, because this is very much not true.

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Alex has talked about this Supreme Court ruling that he's referencing here a number of times

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throughout the show, but he's never brought up the name of it.

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He's never brought up specifics.

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So the case in question is Chavez versus Martinez, and it was decided on May 27, 2003.

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Alex has presented the situation as one where the cop withheld treatment to a person who

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had been shot, only allowing them to receive medical care once they agreed to answer their

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questions.

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This is a complete misrepresentation of even what the basic questions were in the case,

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and what the Supreme Court ruled.

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So here's the basic details of the underlying case.

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A man named Oliverio Martinez was stopped on his bicycle by narcotics officers who attempted

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to put him in cuffs.

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They were in a narcotics investigation.

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ACAB.

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A struggle broke out, and in the process Martinez was shot five times.

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Martinez did admit that in the struggle he tried to steal an officer's gun, but for reasons

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we'll discuss later, this admission might not be all that definite.

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Yeah.

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After Martinez had been shot, an ambulance responded, and that's where the question of

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the case arises.

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Officer Ben Chavez rode along in the ambulance with Martinez, and on the trip to the hospital

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and in the hospital room, he questioned Martinez, which was potentially a violation of his rights.

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In the process of this questioning, Martinez admitted that he had used heroin, and that

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he tried to steal that officer's gun.

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So the primary question of the case was whether or not that confession could be used in court,

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or if it was a violation of Martinez's rights.

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Oh yeah, that's a way more interesting question than just they can stand over you and watch

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you bleed out.

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Right.

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That's kind of the central question, but that's not even totally accurate.

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Right.

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Because, for reasons we'll discuss later, it doesn't even become relevant because he

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never got charged with a crime.

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So it never was used against him in court.

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I'm sorry, what now?

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Right, but it's still potentially a violation of his rights.

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Sure, no, and that's a really interesting question to have solved.

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I'm frustrated by Alex's portrayal of it.

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So since he was never charged with a crime, and his confession was never used against

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him, it now becomes a question of whether or not the officer, Ben Chavez, qualifies

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for qualified immunity and is able to not be sued for his actions.

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Which he should be.

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Theoretically.

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Yeah.

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And so that's what the Supreme Court was deciding.

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Right.

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So Martinez claimed two violations.

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The first was a Fifth Amendment claim that he had been compelled to be a witness against

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himself.

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The second was a Fourteenth Amendment claim which guarantees due process and the right

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to be free of coercive questioning.

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What made the case extra complicated, like I said, is that Martinez never got charged

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with a crime, and the confessions were never used in court.

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So even though these confessions were never used in court, were Martinez's rights violated

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by the officer questioning him when he was in the ambulance and in the emergency room?

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Because if so, Chavez can be sued.

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And this is why we need to discuss this.

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Right.

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The Ninth Circuit Court had ruled that Martinez's Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment rights had

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been infringed based on the persistent nature of Chavez's questioning, and that, quote,

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the Fifth Amendment's purpose is to prevent coercive interrogation practices that are

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destructive to human dignity.

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Yeah.

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This was then appealed to the Supreme Court, who decided in May 2003 that Chavez's actions

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did not actually constitute a violation of Martinez's constitutional rights.

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The rationale is a bit complicated, but a lot of it does boil down to the fact that

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Martinez was never actually charged with a crime.

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Since he was never under oath, the court decided that his Fifth Amendment rights weren't applicable

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to these questioning.

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As for the Fourteenth Amendment question, they found that the questioning Chavez engaged

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in wasn't, quote, egregious or, quote, conscience shocking, as it was claimed to be in the prior

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cases.

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But what's the point of a Supreme Court if their ruling includes it's not conscience

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shocking?

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Fuck off.

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Apparently that's some of the specifics of the language.

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That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.

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That's insane.

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They reviewed the specific conduct he engaged in and found that it was not consistent with

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the violation of the Fourteenth Amendment.

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On the consideration that the court had decided that Chavez had not violated Martinez's rights,

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he was eligible for qualified immunity, and such he couldn't be sued for the actions that

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he took as his official capacity as a police officer.

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If you listen to Alex's show, you would know literally none of these details.

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You would just think that a guy got shot in the stomach and then a cop refused to let

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medical responders treat him until he agreed to be questioned, and then the Supreme Court

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said, hey, that's cool.

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It did seem that's the way he portrayed it.

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That is.

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Yeah.

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That's the way it is.

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The first problem is that Alex's version of it focuses entirely on the wrong question,

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because it's based on a made up version and detail of the case.

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The court wasn't determining whether or not it was appropriate to withhold medical care

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until someone agrees to questioning, because that didn't happen.

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Here's from the Supreme Court ruling, quote, here there's no evidence that Chavez acted

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with a purpose to harm Martinez by intentionally interfering with his medical treatment.

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Medical personnel were able to treat Martinez throughout the interview, and Chavez ceased

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his questioning to allow tests and other procedures to be performed.

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Nor is there evidence that Chavez's contact exacerbated Martinez's injuries or prolonged

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his stay in the hospital.

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Moreover, the need to investigate whether there had been police misconduct constituted

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a justifiable government interest, given the risk that key evidence would have been lost

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if Martinez had died without the authorities ever hearing his side of the story.

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That is a very important point.

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That is a good point.

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This case is really interesting, and there's something to be learned from discussing it.

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You know, you see interesting things you can learn from both angles, pro and con, what

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happened.

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But it's not interesting in the way that Alex is pretending it is.

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It's interesting because I think the ultimate hinge point really comes down to, do you believe

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that the physical presence of the officer there is, by implication, a threat?

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Coercion.

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Yeah, exactly.

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While you are being treated, you are at about the weakest possible you can be.

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So the mere act of him being there, because of course, at any point you are aware he could

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just push somebody aside, you know?

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So there's that kind of, and so the question is, do you think that's real or not, you know?

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And I think that consideration that is in the ruling of, you know, if there is evidence

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that the police had acted inappropriately in the shooting, and he has that evidence,

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and no one else would be able to provide it, and he might die, it's in everyone's best

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interest to be sure we know that evidence.

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That is an angle on this that I hadn't even considered until I went over it.

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I hadn't thought about that one, yeah.

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There's a lot going on here, and what Alex does is he creates a fake version of these

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stories in order to get mad about them, and then he accuses his enemies of doing something

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they didn't do, so he can get even more mad and make the audience more mad.

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It's just silly.

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And most important of all, though, he doesn't have to learn anything.

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No.

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That's the most important lesson we can take from Info Wars.

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And here's the other thing, the other added benefit, he doesn't have to wrestle with ambiguity.

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Oh, no, absolutely not.

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Because even as I hear the details of this case, I don't know exactly what I think is

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the right thing to do.

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Totally.

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I don't know how comfortable I am with the idea of police interviewing people in an ambulance.

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I don't think I'm cool with it.

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I think it could absolutely be very much abused.

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Yeah.

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But at the same time, that argument of needing to possibly get evidence they couldn't get

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any other way against the police, that does make sense.

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Sure.

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Theoretically.

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Theoretically.

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Yeah, theoretically.

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And it's the same thing with the Charles Sell thing.

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Involuntarily medicating somebody I think is not good.

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At the same time, if somebody is unable to stand trial, they are doing a disservice to

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their own defense by not being able to stand trial.

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People deserve an ability to defend themselves in court.

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Yeah.

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You shouldn't try and defend yourself in court on a full moon if you're a werewolf.

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Wait until the day you're feeling normal.

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The point is there's ambiguity.

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It's not black and white.

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There's grays in some of this when you're discussing it outside of let's say a courtroom.

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Right.

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Right.

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And I just think Alex isn't equipped to do that, and I don't think that he really has

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a way to make money off the ambiguity.

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No.

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He only can do like definite, concrete decisions.

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Yeah.

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No, it's far more important for him because ambiguity suggests that there's the possibility

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you are both wrong and don't know.

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Sure.

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You may just not know, and he cannot do that.

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No.

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He just can't.

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It's too humbling to be in a position where you might be like not the biggest expert.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It does feel like he's afraid of that.

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It's terrible.

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It's almost like you just hear the word Dewey and you go for it.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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So, we heard earlier that Alex believes that there was no one on board the planes on 9-11,

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and I thought that maybe he was just-

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Were there any planes at all?

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Well, I thought he was maybe just saying it, you know?

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Yeah.

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Just trying it out.

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Yeah.

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Just tossing it out, seeing how it feels.

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Turns out a caller calls in.

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Okay.

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And he's like, what were you talking about?

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Hey.

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Hey, buddy.

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Yeah.

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I thought that sounded weird.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Steve in Delaware.

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You're on the air, Steve.

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Yeah.

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You made the statement that the aircraft on 9-11, no one was in them?

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Oh, he's even got that voice too.

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Yeah.

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That's great.

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The preponderance evidence shows that conclusively.

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Nine of the 19 hijackers are still alive.

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Okay.

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So, okay.

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So, there were passengers on board.

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We don't know that either, sir.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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That is a walk back or not.

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Hey, we don't know if anybody was on the plane is the exact same thing as saying no one was

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on the plane.

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Yeah.

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You're doubling down just a little bit.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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So, here, Alex presents some of his evidence of this.

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Okay.

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And it's really bad.

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Well, nine of the 19 hijackers aren't dead, so they weren't on the plane.

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That's also not true.

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Neither is this.

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Well, I was going to say, now let's just say that there's only 100 people on each plane

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that was actually all at precisely 20% occupancy, the AP to the study, all other planes in that

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region were at 95 to 98% capacity, but magically, the four computers malfunctioned in two different

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airlines and only 20% were allowed to be seated.

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So, yeah, that's already a contradiction of his, but I think that maybe what he's saying

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is that there's a 20% occupancy of each of them because it was artificial.

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Sure.

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It wasn't actual people on there.

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Sure.

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And it's suspicious to be looked into and he's saying that he's going to jump still

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further and say that there wasn't even that 20%.

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Yeah.

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And it's not true.

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Alex is just lying about the people on board the airlines.

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What about the computers, Dan?

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So United 93 actually did have 20% of its seats filled with 37 passengers out of a total

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capacity of 182.

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This is noted to be significantly lower than the average load for this flight on Tuesdays

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in the previous three months, which was 52%.

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So that is a relevant drop.

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American Airlines Flight 77 had 58 out of a possible 176 passengers on board.

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This was 33%, which is right in line with that flight's three-month average on Tuesdays,

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which was 32.8%.

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United Flight 175 had 56 passengers with a capacity of 168.

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This is a 33% capacity, which is a bit lower than their average on that flight of 49% full.

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On the other hand, American Airlines Flight 11 had 81 passengers with a capacity of 158,

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which represented 51%.

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The three-month average for Flight 11 on Tuesdays was actually 39%, so this is a bit more crowded

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than usual.

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Sure.

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The point is that Alex is just making up statistics to make things seem suspicious, but it's all

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completely disconnected from reality.

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He's a malicious liar, because if you follow this logic through to its natural conclusion,

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he must think that everyone who had a loved one on one of those planes must be lying.

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Or I guess there has to be a far more complicated conspiracy where the passengers got taken

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off board and killed in a hangar somewhere or whatever.

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No, I mean, it's impossible not to look at this and see Sandy Hook written all over it.

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Yeah, there's shades of it.

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They're not there.

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You know, it's like a proto.

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It's like he's trying, he's beginning the thing that will overthrow his career right

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now.

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And it seems pretty relevant to notice this trend of behavior even ten years, nine years

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prior.

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It's not real.

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So, look, it's just awful.

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It's really sad.

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When you go back to this period, you kind of hope that Alex is going to be trying to

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sell more grounded 9-11 conspiracy theories.

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Like, you know, I don't buy a whole lot of it, but I figured he'd just be talking about

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building seven and the speed of things falling and stuff.

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Yeah, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

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It's pathetic to go back and see that he's actually trying to argue that no one was on

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the planes.

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Space lasers.

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Now, they're space lasers that shoot planes from space.

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It's all the government.

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Now, if you think that Alex arguing for there being nobody on the plane is a mess.

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That's a mess.

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This gets worse.

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Okay.

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So, they go to break in the middle of this phone call.

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Alex holds him over until the next segment, and then we get another tease.

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All right, folks.

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Elaine, Carmen, Bob, you guys will be the last callers after Steve, so I've got to get

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into some of the news and the warning to everyone about the new world order, tactics, and their

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program of enslavement.

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So, yeah, he's got another, he teases again.

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Yep.

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And, uh, cool.

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Who knows what's going to happen next?

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Maybe you should buy some gold.

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Maybe.

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Maybe.

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I told you where you could earlier.

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I think that you know where to.

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So, Steve, this caller has a great point, and that is based on the things that Alex has

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been saying, there seems to be a suggestion that there's nobody who was on board.

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Yes, correct.

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This is very much the argument that Alex has been making.

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Yes.

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So, Steve, is like, what about all the people who were at the funerals?

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Let's not talk about those.

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Right.

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Now, you'll notice that Alex starts to pretend they're having a different conversation than

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they're actually having.

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Smart.

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And all the people that went to the memorial services that knew the people who are no longer

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here are being paid off?

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Well, wait a minute, they don't have to be part of the system.

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No, I mean, they load family on board, they remote control the planes, turn the systems

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off and you got a flying coffin.

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That's how that works.

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So, none of the flight attendants and the pilots, I mean, were on board?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:36.840)

Well, under national security, all of those types have been seized and none of those have

Unknown Speaker (00:40:41.440)

been released.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:42.440)

Well, I'm talking about, I mean, the funeral services, I mean, all the people...

Unknown Speaker (00:40:45.559)

No, no, I didn't say there weren't people on board the aircraft.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:47.920)

I'm talking about the pilots, that's what I'm talking about.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:50.679)

You're not listening to me.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:52.679)

That's abusive.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:53.679)

That is abuse.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:54.860)

That is gaslighting, for sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:56.800)

Alex legitimately had been arguing that there were nobody on board.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:00.719)

There was nobody on board that plane, ma'am.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:02.340)

He literally said that.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.639)

I'm going to go back...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:04.639)

Go ahead and play that clip again.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:05.639)

Yeah, I'm going to go back and see...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:06.639)

Zacharias Musali seeks Congress appearance.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:09.679)

The only man charged a connection with the September 11th attacks is asked to testify

Unknown Speaker (00:41:13.920)

before the U.S. Congress.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:15.159)

Zacharias Musali claims that he and the suspected hijackers were under surveillance by the FBI

Unknown Speaker (00:41:20.320)

before September 11th and the U.S. intelligence agencies allowed the attacks to happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:25.119)

This was the latest in a series of handwritten motions by Mr. Musali to the judge overseeing

Unknown Speaker (00:41:29.880)

the case.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:30.880)

Yeah, the government ran the attacks.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:32.719)

No one on board those aircraft books.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:35.119)

So Alex is trying to...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:39.039)

What he's done is he's fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:41.519)

He's talked a bunch of shit and he's realized, oh no, there's someone confronting me about

Unknown Speaker (00:41:45.880)

a fact I can't back up at all.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:47.880)

Zero back up.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:48.880)

So what I'm going to do is hostilely pretend that we're having a different argument and

Unknown Speaker (00:41:53.960)

that argument is about all I said was that they were remote controlled planes.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:58.760)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:59.760)

That's all I said.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:00.760)

Why are you saying that they were paid?

Unknown Speaker (00:42:02.239)

You're the one bringing in crazy information here that I've never heard before.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:05.239)

I never said there was nobody on the plane.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:07.440)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:08.440)

Why would you think that?

Unknown Speaker (00:42:09.440)

All I said is that they were remote controlled.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:10.760)

Sir, you're not listening to me.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:12.440)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:13.440)

If you say you're not listening to me when you're gaslighting me, I want to punch you

Unknown Speaker (00:42:16.739)

in the face.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:17.739)

I really do.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:18.739)

It's real rough.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:19.739)

It's violent.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:20.739)

This, Alex continues to pretend that they weren't having a conversation about no one

Unknown Speaker (00:42:24.159)

being on board.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:25.860)

Their funeral services.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:26.860)

I mean all of their government remote control the aircraft in.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:29.599)

If you didn't hear all the evidence, I just stated there's about 500 other pieces.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:34.519)

I'd like to know, like I said, you know, how did they buy off all of the people who went

Unknown Speaker (00:42:37.800)

to the Memorial services?

Unknown Speaker (00:42:38.860)

Stay focused, buddy.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:40.119)

How do people stay strong?

Unknown Speaker (00:42:41.360)

They have family on board.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:42.519)

The plane gets remote controlled into a building.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:44.840)

They don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:45.840)

So the pilots and the flight crews, uh, families were all on board.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:49.920)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:50.920)

The evidence shows the planes were shut down.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:52.800)

The communications have been seized under national security.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:57.360)

You didn't know that?

Unknown Speaker (00:42:58.360)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:59.360)

I knew that.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:00.360)

I know.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:01.360)

Let me add something.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:02.360)

I'm the guy who calls up firefighters who are in the newspaper saying bombs were going

Unknown Speaker (00:43:05.000)

off and the fires were out and the firefighter tells me I've been told not to talk.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:09.119)

I'm afraid.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:10.239)

So Alex isn't getting anywhere really because this guy isn't letting go of the fact that

Unknown Speaker (00:43:14.800)

they were having a conversation about something else.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:17.320)

And so Alex gets mad and starts yelling about authority.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:19.960)

Sir, you made me almost have to kind of agree with you.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:23.159)

Let me tell you something.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:24.739)

I talk to firefighters.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:26.239)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:27.239)

Like, Oh, what a fucking dick.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:28.880)

So Alex just proceeds to get more mad.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:30.920)

What an asshole.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:31.920)

You start adding all these pieces together.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:33.679)

The evidence shows they were remote controlled.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:36.960)

It is impossible for four hijackers to do what they did.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:40.820)

Number one, number two, nine of them were still alive.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:44.000)

Number three, the CIA was running a drill that morning of carrying out these plans.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:48.360)

Number four, we have an official U S government plan called Northwoods where they call for

Unknown Speaker (00:43:52.920)

remote controlling jets, full of passengers into the ground full of passengers.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:59.400)

We have a confession.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:00.860)

We have an official plan, sir.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:03.159)

You have a confession that's been admitted into court.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:05.599)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:06.599)

It's called operation Northwoods.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:07.599)

What a bluff.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:08.599)

What a fucking bluff.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:09.599)

Well, he said that it's Northwoods confession is very weak.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:17.719)

Um, so yeah, I mean like, I, I can't tell you enough how like weird it was to listen

Unknown Speaker (00:44:25.199)

to this because this guy is very much responding to something that Alex did say, which is that

Unknown Speaker (00:44:31.119)

no one was on board the planes on nine 11.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:33.440)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:34.440)

Alex has used weird evidence to try and argue this point.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:37.880)

And having realized he can't, uh, he has treated to pretending they were talking about whether

Unknown Speaker (00:44:42.840)

or not the plane was remote control.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:45.320)

I never said what you said.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:46.320)

I said, I never said that.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:47.320)

I never said what I said.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:48.320)

There were people on board who died.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:49.960)

All I said was that the planes were remote control said, yeah, how dare you put words

Unknown Speaker (00:44:53.139)

in my mouth?

Unknown Speaker (00:44:54.139)

I don't understand how you say that.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:55.139)

I say things when I know what I said and there's no way for anybody to follow up on this later

Unknown Speaker (00:44:59.659)

and find out.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:00.719)

So now here's where it gets really clear that he's doing this on purpose.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:05.480)

As soon as this dude gets off the phone, Alex starts kind of suggesting that no one was

Unknown Speaker (00:45:10.800)

on board again.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:11.800)

Well, we'll be talking at the end.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:14.519)

Good day, sir.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:15.519)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:16.519)

Appreciate the call.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:17.519)

And the reason I start ranting and raving is because I'm in a hurry here.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:21.920)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:22.920)

I got the facts folks.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:24.400)

Bottom line.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:25.400)

Oh, and, uh, the victim's families have been told to shut up or they don't get the payoffs.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:30.239)

Oh, and by the way, the, uh, the globalist are managing that right into the ground.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:35.679)

They try to declare under national security, the interviews with the families before Congress

Unknown Speaker (00:45:41.119)

wonder why they're trying to make that secret.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:43.280)

So now here's the thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:46.079)

If you're suggesting that the families are being paid off and that they're making sure

Unknown Speaker (00:45:51.119)

no one can see the interviews with them, that has nothing to do with whether or not the

Unknown Speaker (00:45:54.719)

planes were remote controlled.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:56.280)

The families wouldn't know that they weren't on the planes.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:59.679)

And the passengers on the planes wouldn't necessarily know that.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:02.079)

I mean, I assume there would be a movie moment where somebody is like, I don't know what's

Unknown Speaker (00:46:06.199)

going on.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:07.199)

And they knock on the door of the cockpit and it opens up and they're like, there's

Unknown Speaker (00:46:10.480)

no one flying the plane.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:12.360)

I bet that wouldn't happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:13.440)

That would be a fun moment.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:14.599)

So the only thing he could be suggesting by way of these insinuations is that the families

Unknown Speaker (00:46:19.800)

of the people who are on those planes are lying about their family member being on those

Unknown Speaker (00:46:23.340)

planes and they're getting paid off to do it.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:25.559)

You got it.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:26.559)

Correct.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:27.559)

There was no one on that plane.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:28.880)

This is so intentional.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:30.980)

What Alex did on this call is so intentional.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:33.760)

It's so clear.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:34.960)

He realized he couldn't defend his thing next to a guy who actually wanted to talk about

Unknown Speaker (00:46:39.980)

that thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:41.039)

That was an offensive suggestion.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:43.559)

And I realized I got to save face by pretending we're having a separate argument.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:48.079)

It's cowardly.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:49.079)

It's amazing.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:50.079)

It's the disgust I have for a person who says something, backs off of it, whines, and then

Unknown Speaker (00:46:56.780)

is like, whew, now that I'm away from that guy, I get to go back to saying whatever I

Unknown Speaker (00:47:01.519)

want.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:02.519)

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:03.519)

And it was a maniac.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:04.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:05.519)

No, not five seconds.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:06.519)

What an asshole.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:07.519)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:08.519)

Because if he had said those things while Steve was still on the line, you'd be like,

Unknown Speaker (00:47:11.239)

wait, what are you suggesting?

Unknown Speaker (00:47:12.239)

You are suggesting that they're lying to cover this up.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:14.920)

No, I'm not.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:15.920)

They're just remote controlled.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:16.920)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:17.920)

No, he did that when the guy was gone because he couldn't get away with it while a critical

Unknown Speaker (00:47:21.480)

voice was talking to him.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:23.280)

Totally.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:24.280)

It was the type of behavior that caused capital punishment in schools to be acceptable for

Unknown Speaker (00:47:28.960)

a while.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:29.960)

Corporal punishment.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:30.960)

Corporal, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:31.960)

Yeah, they used to murder kids left and right.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:34.559)

Back in the 1878, 20 kids a day.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:37.920)

No, I mean, just like that kind of childish, like, I didn't say that.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:41.719)

I didn't say that makes you want to slap somebody.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:44.719)

You can't not.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:45.760)

I understand where you're coming from.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:47.599)

I just get off, or not get off, but like I'm more validated by demonstrating.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:52.920)

Oh, no, no, totally.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:54.480)

It's great that I can show you this behavior, and it's been consistent for the last 18 years.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:00.760)

Right, exactly.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:01.760)

What a dick.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:02.760)

What a dick.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:03.760)

So Alex gets another caller, and this person is talking about stories about the Supreme

Unknown Speaker (00:48:08.000)

Court decision about Charles Sell, the medication issue.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:12.840)

And here is why his audience is just screwed in terms of their information space.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:19.679)

The ruling says, oh, we love you.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:23.119)

We care about your rights, and the lower courts aren't perfect, but you can forcibly drug

Unknown Speaker (00:48:27.559)

whoever you want.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:28.920)

So, exactly, as I said, here's the Washington Times headline, high court OKs forcible medication

Unknown Speaker (00:48:34.760)

for defendants.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:36.559)

Then you read the Washington Post headline, and I'm trying to dig it out right now, and

Unknown Speaker (00:48:39.960)

it says that court limits forced drugging.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:42.719)

Well, no, it doesn't.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:44.119)

It just says, if there isn't a substantial risk the drugs won't kill you, they can.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:48.920)

Well, the whole article reads as if they're not going to do it, and I didn't even catch

Unknown Speaker (00:48:54.239)

it until you said this, and I went back and got the article, and it's like, crap, it's

Unknown Speaker (00:48:58.679)

right there.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:59.679)

Yeah, it's, ma'am, it's doublespeak.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:02.119)

It sure is.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:03.119)

All right, thanks for the call.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:04.119)

Thank you.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:05.119)

So, yeah, you're just trapped.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:06.800)

Because the decision also discussed the narrow circumstances wherein involuntarily medicating

Unknown Speaker (00:49:12.800)

somebody could be acceptable, they have decided that that invalidates the other part of the

Unknown Speaker (00:49:18.159)

ruling that overturned the previous court's decision to involuntarily medicate Dr. Sell.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:23.599)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:24.599)

It's, it's, I mean, you're trapped.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:26.079)

It's just, it's a trap.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:27.440)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:28.440)

I mean, that's, that's, I'm rubber your glue, you know, just forever.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:32.320)

I'm never going to admit to anything, and whatever you say is just going to bounce off

Unknown Speaker (00:49:36.199)

me.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:37.199)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:38.199)

So, Alex gets another call, and this guy says that, like, we know what we need to do, we

Unknown Speaker (00:49:44.559)

need to get you and John Stappmiller together.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:46.599)

There's another right-wing talk show host.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:49.780)

And we need to do, like, a demonstration in D.C.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:52.880)

We need to protest, you know?

Unknown Speaker (00:49:54.639)

And Alex gets off on, like, like a jag about how, like, any time the Patriots want to protest,

Unknown Speaker (00:50:01.400)

the government will infiltrate and make it look bad and stuff, and so he's just basically

Unknown Speaker (00:50:06.360)

trying to make arguments for why you can't have a protest or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:09.559)

Right, right, right, right.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:10.559)

So now...

Unknown Speaker (00:50:11.559)

Every time we start protesting, there's an OKC bombing and everybody thinks that it's

Unknown Speaker (00:50:14.880)

us.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:15.880)

So, what I can't quite understand is, I think this might be his big warning, but I'm not

Unknown Speaker (00:50:21.480)

sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:22.480)

Because it's also very clearly woven in as a response to this caller who wanted to march

Unknown Speaker (00:50:28.360)

in D.C.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:29.360)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:30.360)

So my warning to you is this.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:34.960)

I mean, I have prominent people on this show.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:38.880)

The heads of prominent gun organizations, you know, prominent lawmen, prominent writers,

Unknown Speaker (00:50:43.679)

and they talk about, yeah, you know, it's time for revolution, it's time for things

Unknown Speaker (00:50:47.280)

to get physical.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:48.780)

And I say no to that.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:50.760)

That is exactly what the globalists want, that's exactly what they need, they've tried

Unknown Speaker (00:50:55.079)

to provocateur it.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:56.079)

Let me tell you, folks, I've been trying to build a veteran a new house, Joe Campana,

Unknown Speaker (00:51:00.119)

and they were going to tear down his house.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:03.360)

It's black people, white people, you know, American flags flying, local building supply

Unknown Speaker (00:51:10.280)

companies get involved in donating materials, and undercover cops show up and try to talk

Unknown Speaker (00:51:15.039)

about blowing stuff up.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:17.480)

Trying to frame me.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:18.480)

This is five years ago.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:20.599)

They're criminals.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:21.599)

Um, so I, maybe his warning is that there are feds around?

Unknown Speaker (00:51:27.079)

They're, they're coming.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:29.559)

They're coming for you.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:30.559)

Well, I think the warning, if that is the warning, I guess, that he's been teasing this

Unknown Speaker (00:51:34.400)

entire episode, and now we're at the end of the third hour, and there is no fourth hour

Unknown Speaker (00:51:38.920)

at this point, so this is the end.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:40.400)

This is the end.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:41.400)

Um, he, he's saying that people who want to do violence are feds trying to set you up.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:48.639)

You have been warned!

Unknown Speaker (00:51:49.960)

Fine.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:50.960)

That's a fine warning, I guess, because the ultimate conclusion is don't trust people

Unknown Speaker (00:51:54.760)

who want to commit acts of violence, then that's probably a healthy perspective.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:58.400)

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:59.679)

I don't know, um, why did you build it up so much?

Unknown Speaker (00:52:04.960)

This is a trite point.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:05.960)

I mean, it's a, don't start violence.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:08.039)

Uh-huh.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:09.039)

And also this- Warning!

Unknown Speaker (00:52:10.039)

This is, but this is coming right after a phone call where the guy wasn't suggesting

Unknown Speaker (00:52:14.280)

violence.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:15.280)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:16.280)

He was suggesting a protest.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:17.280)

Yeah, warning.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:18.280)

Uh-huh.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:19.280)

Don't do violence.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:20.280)

Stay off drugs.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:21.280)

Good.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:22.280)

Kids in schools.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:23.280)

Great.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:24.280)

Do it all.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:25.280)

Warning!

Unknown Speaker (00:52:26.280)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:27.280)

You know what I've always found so disgusting?

Unknown Speaker (00:52:28.280)

What's that?

Unknown Speaker (00:52:29.280)

The, the way that he says, uh, you know, this happens to everybody, it's, it happens to

Unknown Speaker (00:52:32.800)

black people, it happens to white, he always starts with black people, and the reason

Unknown Speaker (00:52:36.480)

he does that is because he uses this false empathy and he's functionally, or like, he's,

Unknown Speaker (00:52:44.599)

he's vocally using black people as a shield for his white supremacy.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:48.239)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:49.239)

It is so fucking, such a small thing, but every single time he does it, it's disrespectful

Unknown Speaker (00:52:54.360)

and disgusting.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:55.360)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:56.360)

And I just, it's, it makes my skin crawl.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:58.079)

I hate it.

Unknown Speaker (00:52:59.079)

It's pretty bad.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:00.079)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:01.079)

Um, so that could have been his warning, but then this also could have been his warning.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:06.000)

I'm not sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:07.000)

He doesn't clarify enough.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:08.679)

And I, and I have a declaration right here on the air that I am non-violent in any offensive

Unknown Speaker (00:53:13.800)

capacity that I will defend my family, though.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:16.199)

Good declaration.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:17.199)

Of the U.S. Constitution, of all rights from enemies foreign and domestic, that I am non-violent

Unknown Speaker (00:53:20.760)

offensively, uh, that I have no wish to commit suicide and I will never commit suicide because

Unknown Speaker (00:53:26.159)

they like to kill you and say you committed suicide.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:28.440)

They love it.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:29.440)

I will say on the record that this government is illegitimate and is carrying out terror

Unknown Speaker (00:53:32.760)

attacks to blame it on their enemies.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:34.559)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:35.559)

And I give the Northwoods plan and a hundred other documents as the evidence to that on

Unknown Speaker (00:53:39.599)

info wars.com.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:41.840)

This is my declaration of re-independence against their corruption.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:46.159)

So I don't want people calling my show, uh, you know, sitting there in a macho fashion,

Unknown Speaker (00:53:52.960)

talking and a lot of our provocateurs about how they're going to do all this stuff physically.

Unknown Speaker (00:53:59.719)

Just go back and take your federal paycheck and stay away from my show.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:04.360)

Bottom line.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:06.599)

You understand?

Unknown Speaker (00:54:07.800)

I'm not going to be stupid and fall into their trap.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:10.500)

They're going to do something to me.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:11.500)

It's going to be a total frame up.

Unknown Speaker (00:54:13.400)

So maybe this is the announcement that he's been teasing the whole- I'm not sure.

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Warning!

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If something happens to me, it's false.

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I want to say also, too, that in Alex's defense, he does clarify that, like, when I'm saying

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this about, like, stay away from my show with this bullshit, he wasn't talking about the

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caller who was just suggesting a protest.

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Right, right, right.

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He does at least catch himself and realize, like, oh, this could be seen as me saying

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any protest is wrong.

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And at least he does that.

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But yeah, I don't understand what the point is of this big warning.

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I mean, it was to declare his re-independence, obviously.

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His re-independence.

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I mean, one might say that it's a reclamation of independence as opposed to a declaration

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of re-independence, but I suppose that also works.

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I think you could also call it, um, what's the word, pointless.

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Oh, that would be a good one.

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I'm going to call, listen, I'm going to call my senator right now.

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I want them to reaffirm the declaration of independence.

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That would be great.

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Right now.

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Yes.

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And if they don't, they hate America.

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They got it.

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They hate America.

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They hate America.

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They're clearly working for Satan.

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So now, unfortunately, Alex has run out of time to get to any news stories.

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So sad.

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Yeah, and I'm sorry to other callers.

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I don't have time to get to you.

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The news we couldn't cover is on Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com.

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Be upfront, thank you for the call, we'll let him go now, that, that, that we're going

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to be upfront, that we're going to be mainstream, that we're going to stand against the globalists

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with the facts that they're terrorists.

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We're not going to hide around in the backwoods and hang around with the moron feds.

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We're going to stand up, be strong, be bold, and, and, and, and expose the terrorist.

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Before I end this hour, I just want to remind you that there are some $10 Olympic gold coins

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left at Midas Resources.

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Cool.

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Cool.

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That's awesome.

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That's somehow, that's even sadder than Zink.

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They're $10 Olympic coins.

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That's an infomercial at 2 AM.

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Yeah.

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And the, um, the, the guy who was on from Midas Resources is like, look, we can't ever

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find these.

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We can get the $5 ones, but we can never get the $10 ones.

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Now, these are just for Alex Jones listeners.

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I got my hands on guaranteed 250 of these.

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We're going to be able to, trying to sell 250, but hey, how about we try and sell 5,000?

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Or 2,500 maybe, whatever it is, he's like, let's try and sell double that.

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I'll find them.

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The classic.

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It's like, you have all of those.

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Used snake oil, used car salesmen, bullshitter, fuck you.

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Pretty awesome.

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So maybe Alex's big announcement and warning is that they're going mainstream and, uh,

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you know, we're not going to be hanging out with militias in the woods, uh, all the feds.

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I don't know.

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Yeah, sure.

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Why not?

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Anyway, it was disappointing to get to the end of this and not really know what his announcement

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was.

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Warning!

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The show's over.

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Yeah.

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Don't have time.

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Um, but like I said, in that mire, you find Alex getting schooled by this guy about a

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claim that Alex made earlier in the show.

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And I think that there's something really valuable about understanding what happened

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in that exchange between the two of them, because it's essential to understanding how

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Alex deals with discourse, how he deals with the idea of anybody having an exchange of

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ideas or a debate with him.

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These are the sort of tactics that will get most people off track pretty easily, just

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pretending you're having a different conversation.

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No, we've seen that his ultimate weakness is just staying on target.

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Like the moment that you don't fall for his, well, have you heard?

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Or this is the, or all of the, you know.

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That's why if I ever were to talk to him, I would just stay laser focused on Operation

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Lockstep.

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Yeah.

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I would just anytime there was something that was slightly off track, I'd say we'll talk

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about that later.

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Right.

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We're staying on this, and it would just, it would deteriorate and he'd start yelling

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at me.

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No, he'd begin to vibrate and then I assume go Super Saiyan.

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Most likely.

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Yeah.

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And it would be unsatisfying for me as well.

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Everyone.

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It'd be miserable.

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So we go to the 19th now, and again, this is a fucking slog at the beginning.

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It is so rough.

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It is mostly, the first 25 minutes is largely Alex complaining about how some Christian

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organization has been bootlegging his movies.

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Oh, those bastards.

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Yes.

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Bootlegging?

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So he wants his movies to be made, he wants you to make copies of them and spread them

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out to people, but he does not want you selling them, I guess.

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And I think that what he's really mad about is that they ran an ad in something selling

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his DVDs.

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Ooh, that's annoying.

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Right.

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That's copyright infringement.

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I agree with that.

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I do too, but it also is a little bit of a gray area based on the way that he sort of

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gives everyone carte blanche.

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I want you to make as many copies of these as you can and do whatever you want with them.

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Right.

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And don't, like, charge for them, but then it's like, okay, what about the expenses of

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making copies of tapes and stuff?

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It does seem like maybe- Could I recoup?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Where's the line, Alex?

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What's the wholesale cost and that'll be it?

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Yeah, so, and I also think there's another thing that he's a little bit mad about that

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I actually find far more reasonable, and that is that the copies that they're making are

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like fifth generation copies, and so they're bad copies that they're selling, and people

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will call him and complain about things that he didn't sell.

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Right, right, right.

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And so, like, if someone else is pretending to be a distributor of your thing and you

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have no quality control ability, that would make me mad too.

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Yeah, I mean, it would make me mad to be in the black market for Alex Jones tapes, but,

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you know, there are a lot of other problems.

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So this is about the first half of the first hour is this, and he finally talks himself

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into suing them.

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Okay.

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All right, my friends, Alex Jones back live, and one more note about the people bootlegging

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and selling my videos ripping me off.

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You know, I'm not going to talk about any of these people on the air.

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I'm just going to sue them, and, you know, I've sued people before.

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I don't make a big deal or public deal about that, but on other issues, I'm not going to

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sit here and take this type of garbage from people.

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Their deception, their lies, their corruption.

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But I am certainly just angry about that type of stuff because I have worked so hard to

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fight the New World Order.

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When he says I'm not going to talk about these people, he means by name, and I guess that's

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like, that's fine.

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Don't give them attention.

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Yeah, sure.

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Whatever.

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But anyway, this is just an almost present day-ish in terms of pointlessness.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think you could probably just send them a quick cease and desist letter, and

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they'd be like...

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You don't need to complain for a long time on your show about it.

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It seems like a waste of time for a very important talk show.

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Yeah.

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Warning!

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These people have been selling my fucking tapes.

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Yeah.

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Alex talks about UNESCO, because there's talk that Bush is going to reenter UNESCO.

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And this is something that is very bad, because according to Alex, their plan is to destroy

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the family.

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Again?

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Let me cover what UNESCO had to say, and this is important.

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We've got to expose UNESCO.

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It says, strangle this monster in its crib.

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That's the headline by Phil Burnen, Newsmax.

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Now listen to the propaganda in this article.

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Unless Congress regains its modicum of sanity, they're not insane.

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They know what they're doing.

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They want slaves.

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They're not insane, Phil.

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Unless Congress regains a modicum of sanity, the United States of America is about to rejoin

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an organization dedicated to the destruction of the last vestiges of Christian civilization.

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He reads that paragraph twice, and one thing that I found really weird is if you go and

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actually find this Newsmax article, at the end there, it says Judeo-Christian civilization.

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But Alex just chops off the Judeo.

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I don't know if he's reading a different version of it, or if that's intentional.

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I have no idea.

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Eh, maybe he just doesn't care.

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Could be.

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So Alex, he's been rambling about this plan that UNESCO has to destroy the family, to

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destroy civilization, and I guess he's deciding to cover it by reading an op-ed in Newsmax.

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I think that's a good way.

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Sure.

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The op-ed honestly reads like a fucking parody.

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Take this ridiculous run-on sentence, for instance.

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Okay.

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I don't have to catch my breath before I do this.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Quote, most Americans are blissfully ignorant of the insidious nature of this crowd of one-world

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paganistic pseudo-communists and real ones who are bound and determined to create a new

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world order, establish new world religion of tree worshipers that supplants and scorns

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Christianity and Judaism, promotes abortion worldwide, seeks to capture control of the

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schools and school children, and is in the process of transforming national and privately

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owned property in the United States and elsewhere into its greedy hands.

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Dan, I told you I didn't want to hear Ted fucking Nugent on this show anymore.

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Need a break in that sentence.

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Fucking verbose asshole.

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Yeah.

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Tree worshipers.

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Tree worshipers.

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So that's apparently what UNESCO is doing.

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And the basis for this, according to this op-ed, is a publication called Toward World

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Understanding, which apparently UNESCO put out in 1949.

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Actually, he's not referring to that publication.

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He's referring to an op-ed in The New American that talked about that publication.

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My god.

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Third hand.

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These people are so easy.

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So here's the quote that that Newsmax article attributes to the publication.

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Quote, but government schools must stamp out the love of country and the family must be

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viewed as the enemy.

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As long as the child breathes the poisoned air of nationalism, education and world-mindedness

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can produce only rather precarious results.

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As we've pointed out, it is frequently the family that infects the child with extreme

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nationalism.

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The school should therefore use the means described earlier to combat family attitudes

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that favor jingoism.

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The sentence, quote, but government schools must stamp out love of country and the family

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must be viewed as an enemy, isn't from the UNESCO text.

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That's really surprising.

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Yeah.

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That really is surprising.

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That's the interpretation of the guy who wrote the original article in The New American,

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which is being quoted in this Newsmax article.

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Alex constantly says that UNESCO admits that the family is their enemy when that admission

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is really just an accusation from a right-wing rag.

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This is not a single publication from UNESCO.

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It's actually part of a 10-part series, which aren't textbooks like many blogs incorrectly

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claim and Alex incorrectly claims as their founding documents.

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Jesus.

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Which is ridiculous because they were founded four years prior.

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Right.

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It's called Reports of Meetings, where various perspectives were given by various speakers

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on issues related to education.

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You can find the full text of this volume that it comes from.

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This is volume five, and if you do and you read it, you come away with a slightly different

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sense of what it's about.

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Just broadly speaking, the point of the text is that an essential part of healthy development

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for children and adults is feeling like you belong.

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As you progress through life, the size of the group you belong to grows along with you.

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Initially it's your family, then maybe some friends in the neighborhood, then it's your

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class at school, then maybe your city, your state, then nation, and eventually, ideally,

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the world.

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This document is about public education, so it's basically a discussion of how to promote

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this healthy process of seeing the world as something you are a part of, along with everyone

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else.

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The issue is that a lot of this is an emotional process, and it relies on experiences, so

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for students, being exposed to sensitive and humanizing representations of people from

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other cultures is critical.

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Also, they recommend having an exchange with a family who has a kid of the same age in

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another country so a bond can be formed with people from another culture, which will instill

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in a youth the knowledge that stereotypes and prejudices someone may have about foreigners

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aren't real.

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The educators are implored to focus on the deep, meaningful ways that we are the same,

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as opposed to the more external and trivial ways that we're different.

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That said, I will admit that this document is very much against nationalism, and I can't

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imagine why someone would not have a great impression of nationalism in 1949.

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Why would they, I mean, look, okay, so, you have a couple world wars driven almost entirely

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by jingoistic, propagandist nationalists, and all of a sudden you think nationalism

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is bad?

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Have you not sang the Pledge of Allegiance in class this morning?

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It's very bizarre that someone would have this perspective.

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So weird.

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So if you actually read the thing, they spell out what they're talking about.

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Quote, education for world-mindedness at present encounters obstacles outside the school.

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The principle one certainly is nationalism.

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If the feeling of belonging to the human community develops normally by an extension of the feeling

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of belonging to the national community, it cannot possibly develop from that caricature

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of patriotism, which is extreme nationalism.

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Nationalism in the sense of caring about your country and seeing yourself as a part of it,

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that's an essential step toward seeing yourself as part of the world community.

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So the writer of this report is in no way suggesting that nations should be destroyed.

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Conversely, the real point being made is that extreme nationalism is a perversion of patriotism,

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where everything that involves here is good, and everything involving other countries is

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suspicious at best.

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Also, this is just a report of a seminar, and the introduction literally says, quote,

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the views expressed are, of course, not the views, the official views of UNESCO, nor are

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they necessarily acceptable to all members of the group.

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It is hoped, however, that they will arouse interest and stimulate discussion among teachers

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in many countries.

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So a little bit unfair, this interpretation that they're admitting that they want to destroy

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your family.

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I want to take one of those guys to like a baseball game in 2021 and watch the planes

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fly over the evil jet planes and just be like, hey, buddy, you did it.

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So here's what happened with this UNESCO document.

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This report on a seminar was published in 1949, and no one really cared, except people

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deep in the weeds in terms of education.

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Then in October 1950, William Henry McFarland wrote about it in a newsletter from his group,

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the Nationalist Action League, and then the outrage started.

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Great.

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Previous to this, actually, I kind of misspoke.

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The name was changed from the Nationalist Action League to something else before this

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publication.

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Right, right, right.

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So previously, the Nationalist Action League, and now it ends up being the American Flag

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Committee.

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Right, right, right.

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We got real close to Nazi there, so now we're American Flag Nazis.

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Yeah.

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Previous to this publication that had to do with the UNESCO thing, McFarland had self-published

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a series of newsletters called National Progress, and boy, it's bad.

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I was reading over the first issue from September 1945, and it's about what you'd expect for

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the first bit of it.

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It's laying out an aggressively anti-communist position for the newsletter, and it's all

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pretty standard, until you get to plank four of their suggestions of how to fix the country.

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Bring Hitler back to life!

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Quote, a real and lasting solution of the whole racial problem in America.

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Do you mean a final solution to the racial problem in America?

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To be based upon justice for all concerned.

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It must be understood that two races, each possessing a different set of morals and ethics

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or a different culture, cannot be forced to exist together as equals.

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This is trouble.

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We believe that the Jewish race can never become part of the Christian culture.

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We know that a Christian America will never accept Judaism.

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Those who fail to see the choice which must be made are active to complicate matters.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:46.039)

Sure.

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Hitler!

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Hitler!

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Hitler!

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The solution that they suggest is, quote, the immediate deportation of all aliens.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:53.380)

And I'm guessing that his definition of that term is pretty broad.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:56.119)

I would probably argue it is very broad.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:59.039)

So this national progress was put out by the Nationalist Action League.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:03.520)

Right, right.

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And then by 1950, he created this new organization, the American Flag Committee, which was based

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on an outrage over an incident in Philadelphia where a UN flag was raised during a ceremony.

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He began distributing American flag seals, which was most likely just a good PR scheme.

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An informant told the FBI that the American Flag Committee was, quote, it was just, quote,

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a sub-body of the Nationalist Action League, and the goal was to gain national attention

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with the American flag seals.

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In essence, McFarland was doing what a lot of the current-day fascists are doing with

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the anti-mask protests.

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It's the exploitation of a wedge issue that you can use to drive people unknowingly closer

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to extremism.

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Yep.

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Members of the American Flag Committee received a monthly newsletter just titled The Newsletter.

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In issue 13 of the newsletter, McFarland did a misleading article about this UNESCO document,

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and from that point it spread around to various extreme nationalist communities.

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It's the circle of the right!

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By 1951, it had reached a Republican Congress member named John T. Wood, who read not the

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actual UNESCO document, but the coverage of it from the American Flag Committee into the

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congressional record.

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Right, right.

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Naturally, this spread the word a bit further about this conspiracy, and the rest, as you

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say, is just a game of telephone.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:22.920)

Yeah.

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People don't respond to actual things in the UNESCO report, most likely because they've

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never actually seen the report.

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It would be hard.

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They've only heard about it through the sources that have filtered down from this anti-Semitic

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fuckwad William Henry McFarland.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:35.619)

Alex hasn't read it, he's just seen this Newsmax article.

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The Newsmax article doesn't cite the actual document, it cites a different right-wing

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publications take on it, with the very same blurb that's been used to drum up fear in

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extreme nationalists since the days of McFarland.

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Great.

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The same person who, I should remind you, who wants to deport all non-white people from

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the United States.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:54.800)

Yeah.

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I bet McCarthy had no idea who these guys were.

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I bet Joseph McCarthy was like, these guys are so crazy, now I never would ever do...

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I will say that there's some pretty positive references to McCarthy in some of his newsletters.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:09.880)

Oh yeah?

Unknown Speaker (01:12:10.880)

Oh you think?

Unknown Speaker (01:12:11.880)

I will, I think that it's fortunate in some ways that the FBI was keeping an eye on this

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guy's committees because now the newsletters are on the FBI's website.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:22.479)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:23.479)

You know, the record exists.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:24.479)

Cool.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:25.479)

And this is one of the other reasons that all the newsletters are there.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:31.180)

Not because the FBI sought them out, but because McFarland sent a copy of all of them to the

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FBI, almost sort of as a way of being like, I'm taunting you, or I want you to be aware

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of what I'm up to.

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I'm the Zodiac Nazi, I'm gonna leave little clues.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:47.319)

Also, he was in his mid-twenties at this point, so he has a bit of a Fuentesi vibe.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:56.079)

You know, the problem with fascists, very uncreative, but enterprising when young.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:01.439)

This is an issue.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:02.439)

Yeah, if you think about it, in the mid-forties, putting out a newsletter that you distribute.

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And just calling it newsletter?

Unknown Speaker (01:13:12.119)

There is a lot of competition in the forties.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:13.920)

There's a lot of undertaking that needs to be done.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:16.680)

You're doing a lot of work.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:17.680)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:18.680)

And to commit to that is, you know, obviously I think what he did is shit, and I think it's

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obviously you can see the ripple even in 2003 of this fear-baiting about UNESCO.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:29.800)

No, it's horrific.

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But at the same time, if you just look at how much you have to do, it's kind of impressive

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just from an ethically neutral standpoint.

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You know, he really put his stamp on the destruction of democracy.

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You gotta give somebody credit whenever they really leave their name in the history books

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as destroying democracy.

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And when their name is completely forgotten because their influence was just insidious.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Fucked up, man.

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And another thing that was really fun, just because I read a lot of it, so why not share

Unknown Speaker (01:14:02.760)

some details?

Unknown Speaker (01:14:03.760)

Sure.

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Gotta.

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He accepted payment for the publication, like subscriptions and stuff.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:13.079)

Only through money orders.

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But if you were going to buy a single issue, you could pay with stamps.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:18.880)

Now, he didn't accept money because I guess it would get lost in the mail or something.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:22.840)

Right.

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Right, right.

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And then he didn't accept personal checks.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:25.840)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:26.840)

And this is spelled out in a very long story in his newsletter.

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Oh, I believe it.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:31.239)

I believe he's not short-winded on this front.

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He did not have an account at the bank that allowed him to cash these checks because his

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account size was too small.

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The bank wouldn't put, in case the check wasn't a good check, they weren't willing to front

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him that money until the check cleared.

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Of course.

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And so he ended up having to find a friend with a better bank account who the bank would

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cash the check for him.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:55.760)

Oh, God.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:56.760)

And so he describes this as being a very cumbersome process.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.439)

I mean, that sounds like a cumbersome process.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:01.399)

I will agree with him on that front.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:02.720)

So that's why you need to pay in stamps.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:04.319)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:05.319)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:06.319)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:07.319)

So he's the original Bitcoin bro, is what you're saying.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:10.000)

So I guess...

Unknown Speaker (01:15:11.000)

It's called blockchain, man.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:12.680)

I was really interested diving in and seeing where this conspiracy came from.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:17.920)

It's not always as kind of... the roots aren't always as sort of traceable.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:24.880)

Right, right, right.

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And this one's pretty clear, and you can see the way that the original source material

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is perverted initially, and then that goes A to B to C to D, eventually all the way down

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the line to the new American, which is then covered by Newsmax, which is then covered

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by Alex.

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It's just... they just know the game.

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They're just really good at the game.

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They're not good at helping or doing anything but the game.

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It's fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:55.939)

Yeah.

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And so earlier in the episode, here's another little clip of Alex talking about this UNESCO

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thing, just because he's got everything wrong.

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And a Newsmax story I never got to that has quotes out of UNESCO's founding documents

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that Bush has just signed onto the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural

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Organization where they say the family must be destroyed.

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Yeah.

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So that's his angle on it.

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It's shit.

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The founding documents.

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The founding documents of UNESCO say the family must be destroyed.

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And the part about the family being the enemy and needing to be destroyed is from the New

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American article that's sort of manipulatively quoted in the Newsmax article, and Alex, I

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guess if he's not curious about it and just takes that Newsmax article as gospel, must

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think that that comes from the UNESCO document when it actually doesn't.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:49.439)

Yeah, no, Newsmax is fucking Breaking Bad's carwash.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:54.760)

Just like, we've got all these lies, I don't know what to do with them.

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We gotta launder.

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Yeah.

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So now we get to Dan in Illinois, he calls in.

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Dan's got an interesting...

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Dan, you're on the air.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:05.399)

Hey.

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I've got an interesting theory.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:07.399)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:08.399)

What's your theory?

Unknown Speaker (01:17:09.399)

Um...

Unknown Speaker (01:17:10.399)

There's only two SWAT teams.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:11.399)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.399)

Oh, okay.

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He thinks that North Korea is a decoy, like there's not going to be a war there.

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Are there any people in North Korea?

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They don't have any resources to exploit.

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There is that.

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And so Alex kind of goes off.

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Dan tries to stay on point, but Alex isn't allowing it.

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Oh, no.

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Let me throw this at you.

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What if North Korea is a complete decoy?

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What if the leader, whatever his name is, is totally in bed with this regime?

Unknown Speaker (01:17:36.239)

Well, we know he's in bed with the communist Chinese who are in bed with the globalist,

Unknown Speaker (01:17:42.119)

so when you say regime, I mean, Bush isn't even a regime, he's a front puppet just like

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Clinton.

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Yeah, whatever the organization is.

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What if North Korea is the real deal?

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They've been armed, they're psychopathic, they're pure evil, as evil as it gets.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:55.279)

But what about just a scare tactic?

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They don't have any resources, they don't have anything to take, you know, taking that

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country over or whatever is not going to...

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But in the meantime, there isn't any...

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Dan, that's not true.

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The Iraqis laid down, Special Forces infiltrated British in the U.S., paid them off in gold

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bar, euros, and dollars.

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That's now admitted before the war, during the war.

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But North Korea, whenever they catch one of their police boats, in South Korean waters,

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everybody takes cyanide.

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They're totally mind-controlled.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:24.600)

What?

Unknown Speaker (01:18:25.600)

What I'm saying is they don't have the resources to steal from, like, the Middle East, you

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know what I mean?

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You forgot that they're one of the biggest opium producers in the world?

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And the CIA likes to deal smack, don't they?

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So yeah, that's not true.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.880)

But yeah, so Alex, again, is trying to respond to a different point than what the caller

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is bringing up.

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And this one, I think, is a little more unclear to me, because I do think that it's possible

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that Alex misunderstood him, and is responding to what he thinks this guy is saying, as opposed

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to being caught in a ridiculous situation like in the previous day's show, with the

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no one was on the planes.

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This could just be Alex not paying attention, really.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:09.039)

Yeah, I can see this one just being like, nah, North Korea's probably got enough money

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to kill us all.

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But Alex has turned this story about North Korea being one of the largest opium growers

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in the world into just something that he can say.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:23.159)

Yeah, just toss it out there.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:26.319)

It's not a good rebuttal to this guy's point.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:28.279)

Nope, it is.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:29.640)

Anyway, Alex has a guest.

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He has a couple guests on this episode.

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One of them is this singer-songwriter named Michelle Schacht, and we're not going to listen

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to any of her interview, because it's pointless.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:40.039)

Oh, no.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:41.039)

What'd she play?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:42.039)

What?

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Is she any good?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:44.600)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:45.600)

You didn't follow up on her singing career?

Unknown Speaker (01:19:49.880)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:50.880)

Dan, I expect you to do research.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:52.640)

I did look into who she was.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:55.960)

And yeah, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:58.640)

She gave me a bad vibe.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:00.119)

Okay, well, that's fair.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:01.760)

I mean, I think a singer-songwriter on InfoWars does have a very poor track record.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:05.439)

She had some controversies that popped up about her saying some jokes about how all

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the singer-songwriters who were nominated in a particular category for an award, we

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could have called this the lesbian vocalist or something, and then later on she got really

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mad because she was asked about her take on homosexuality at a, I think it was at a Christian

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concert of some sort.

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And she's like, I don't know why everyone asks me this.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:36.479)

You're looking at the biggest homophobe in the world.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:40.000)

Like she's, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:41.000)

That's fair.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:42.000)

I don't know if that was just her being fed up with people asking her that kind of question.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:46.560)

Right, right, right.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:47.560)

Or what.

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Or if she was just throwing it, I mean, hey, throw it out there.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:51.600)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:52.600)

I didn't care.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:53.600)

And I think that she probably just sucks.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:55.720)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:56.720)

You're on Alex's show.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:57.720)

You're not great.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:58.720)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:59.720)

Speaking of that, Alex has another guest on who's not great.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:03.079)

And that is the lawyer who's representing Jane Roe.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:06.279)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:07.279)

And now the woman known as Roe has, well, she's allowed to have a brief to the court

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because she was a plaintiff in the case.

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She's of course a born again Christian and knows now that it's murder and wants to reverse

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this and it's being brought to the Supreme Court.

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Joining us is Sharon Blakeney.

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And we appreciate her joining us, attorney and counselor at law.

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And she is one of the lawyers on the team with the organization here in Texas that is

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countering the government and trying to reverse this Nazi policy.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:46.020)

So it's very clear from this interview, if you listen to it, that this person is less

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a lawyer and they're our lawyer, but they're more to the point an anti-abortion activist.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:56.760)

Right, right, right.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:57.760)

They work in anti-abortion.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:58.760)

They read law, but they're mainly an anti-abortion activist.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:03.560)

They represent and work with primarily anti-abortion causes, even outside of the legal aspect.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:11.560)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:12.560)

Just promoting.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:13.560)

Hey, why not?

Unknown Speaker (01:22:15.319)

Somebody's got to do it.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:16.319)

So this is really funny.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:17.960)

The lawyer is trying to give some background on the case.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:20.239)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:21.239)

And mike down for this because you will be tempted to talk over this.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:25.039)

It was all based on summary judgment motions and Norma McCorvey herself learned of the

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ruling of the Supreme Court by reading it in the Dallas Morning News.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:34.520)

Alex?

Unknown Speaker (01:22:36.520)

Yes, I'm right here.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:43.239)

I was over here on the other side of the studio digging through news articles.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:46.640)

I'm listening.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:47.640)

Go ahead.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:48.640)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:49.640)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:50.640)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:51.640)

So Alex just got up and got away from the mic.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:52.640)

Hey, I'm going to let her.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:53.640)

I'm going to let her cook for a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:55.079)

I'm going to get out of here.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:57.079)

Alex, are you there?

Unknown Speaker (01:23:00.119)

She's probably got a lot to say.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:01.119)

I'm going to take a little nap.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:02.119)

I'm going to get a sandwich.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:03.119)

It's good to know that this kind of behavior is pretty consistent throughout his career.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:07.680)

If he had any respect for his guests, they would be in studio so he couldn't run away

Unknown Speaker (01:23:12.300)

from them whenever he felt like it.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:14.279)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:15.279)

So Alex has a real lot of horrible things he says about abortion in this interview and

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this section.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:24.640)

I will say that it's suspicious that he's not talking about his own experience.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:31.359)

He's not talking about how many abortions that he's paid for at this time?

Unknown Speaker (01:23:34.920)

That does not seem something like something that he is willing to discuss publicly at

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this time.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:40.600)

Wow.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:41.600)

It really feels like that's an important background for this kind of interview, right?

Unknown Speaker (01:23:45.000)

He does seem to talk about a lot of feelings he has about people who do get abortions.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:51.560)

Oh yeah?

Unknown Speaker (01:23:52.560)

He feels like they deserve punishment of some sort?

Unknown Speaker (01:23:55.880)

And it just leaves off the whole thing about his experience.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:59.520)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:00.520)

Now I don't deserve punishment, of course, because I'm better now.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:04.199)

So now, obviously, if we were to reply retroactively, then yes, I would be in trouble in the same

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way.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:10.880)

But since we aren't going to, hooray, I'm Scott Free!

Unknown Speaker (01:24:13.819)

And also he seems to have a position that abortions are never okay in the case of protecting

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a woman's life because...

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Uh oh.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:24.960)

If God wants you to abort, and it's a bad pregnancy, it'll happen, folks.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:29.119)

And it's very bad for women to increase cancer if you do it in an unnatural fashion, if you

Unknown Speaker (01:24:35.720)

go in and kill the baby, it also causes massive emotional problems, and it creates all these

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damaged women who then join the New World Order cause to carry all of this out.

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That's disgusting.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:47.960)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:48.960)

Yeah, that's always been such a bullshit, like, okay, fine, give me an exact list of

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when doctors are allowed and not allowed by God to do shit, okay?

Unknown Speaker (01:24:58.880)

Just give me a hard line, okay?

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If you're gonna get an abortion, God'll do it for you, alright?

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God takes care of all of that.

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What if, say, you've got a broken leg?

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Is God gonna heal your broken leg, or is it okay for a doctor to heal your broken leg?

Unknown Speaker (01:25:13.079)

No, God's gonna do it.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:14.239)

Give me a fucking list of what God can and cannot do.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:18.840)

All medicine must be suspect, I guess, according to this kind of thinking.

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Fuck off.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:23.479)

Yeah, and then also just the idea that it's creating a bunch of broken people, you know,

Unknown Speaker (01:25:29.319)

this is just offensive.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:30.479)

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that it's not been something that people have done for the entirety

Unknown Speaker (01:25:35.880)

of humanity.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:36.880)

Well, I mean, I can't imagine what the emotional toll would be of being forced by the state

Unknown Speaker (01:25:43.560)

to carry a pregnancy that you don't want to.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:47.159)

Oh, no, it would make Alex happy.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:50.520)

But I mean, the person would probably have a lot of emotional impact.

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The person is not important here.

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God is important, and how Alex feels about it.

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Alex's thoughts about God.

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Not even God, per se.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:05.300)

So this is one of the only things I found really interesting about this interview with

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the lawyer.

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Because, I mean, the case didn't go anywhere, and it's stupid, it's just a PR thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:17.000)

But she does have a website that she's promoting that puts Alex in a real pickle.

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The makeup of the Supreme Court is of incredible importance, especially given this case that

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we have filed, which may and most likely will be heard there sometime in the near future.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:35.880)

We're facing some possible vacancies on that court.

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President Bush in his campaign has said that he would promote a culture of life.

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There is a project called Project Rosebud.

Unknown Speaker (01:26:46.680)

If you go to www.f2a.org, you can be a part of Project Rosebud, which is sending roses

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to President Bush for $10.

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You can send a rose to President Bush with a message supporting his decision to promote

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a culture of life and to appoint justices that will rule in accordance with that.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:12.800)

Boy, I bet the White House is just full of roses, then.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:16.840)

That's right.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:17.840)

There's been thousands that have been sent, and we want to send more, Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:21.079)

So now Alex is in an unenviable position of having to support the guy who did 9-11, because

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he might appoint Supreme Court justices that end abortion.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:30.279)

Okay, so he did 9-11.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:32.859)

That's bad.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:33.859)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:34.859)

He might end abortion.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:36.680)

That's good.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:37.680)

Mm-hmm.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:38.680)

Hmm.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:39.680)

I'm in a real pickle here.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:40.680)

Yeah, that's a difficult situation.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:41.680)

That's a difficult situation.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:42.680)

And I have to send roses?

Unknown Speaker (01:27:43.680)

Uh-huh.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:44.680)

That might be the deciding factor.

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I don't want to send any roses.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:46.680)

Fuck you.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:47.680)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:48.680)

I can hear the discomfort Alex had with someone saying positive things about Bush.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:52.159)

Yeah.

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And, yeah.

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I can hear the discomfort he has with somebody giving money to somebody not him.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:58.520)

True.

Unknown Speaker (01:27:59.520)

So they take some calls, the two of them, the lawyer and Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:02.880)

Oh, boy.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:03.880)

Great.

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And, get this.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:05.880)

What?

Unknown Speaker (01:28:06.880)

We can shut the book on the devil question.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:08.079)

Oh, okay, good.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:09.119)

It's literally spelled out in this clip.

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I don't think men, in and of themselves, can orchestrate what these evil men do.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:17.239)

So, I mean, that tells me that Satan himself is the one that's actually the genius behind

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it all.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:25.600)

Well, of course.

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The devil's biggest trick was convincing us he didn't exist and now you have moral relativism

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and people don't even know what good and evil is.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:32.880)

Thanks for the call, Debbie.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:33.880)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:34.880)

So Alex does believe that there is a literal devil in 2003 that he is fighting against.

Unknown Speaker (01:28:38.079)

Little Christian devil.

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And the caller is actually even definitely saying that the devil is behind the globalists.

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The genius behind the globalists.

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The evil plans are too evil for people.

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Too smart.

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They're too evil and so it must be Beelzebub.

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It's gotta be.

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And Alex agrees.

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There's no way.

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There's no way.

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Obviously, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he wasn't real

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and now we have moral relativism.

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See how quickly it happened?

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Dangerous.

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When did he do that?

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70...

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80?

Unknown Speaker (01:29:08.640)

I mean, if the devil pulled the trick, I would like to know the day.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:13.359)

Uh-huh.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:14.359)

October...

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Gregorian calendar?

Unknown Speaker (01:29:16.359)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:17.359)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:18.359)

No, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:20.079)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:21.079)

So, yeah, the devil.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:24.600)

We've been wondering for a long time, listening to these 2003 episodes, whether Alex Jones

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believed 18 years ago that he was fighting the literal devil.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:33.520)

He does, but he doesn't talk about it nearly as much.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:36.579)

It's very clear in the present day.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:38.600)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:39.600)

But he's a little bit more careful about it.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:41.079)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:42.079)

It would probably be harder on the upturn to talk about the devil as much.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:45.859)

Now that you're on the down, you can fly.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:48.079)

I think that's probably also the case with him talking about his experience personally

Unknown Speaker (01:29:52.680)

with paying for abortions.

Unknown Speaker (01:29:54.680)

I mean, in the same way that he didn't talk about having COVID twice or whatever until

Unknown Speaker (01:29:58.640)

after it was already politically expedient for him to do so.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:01.960)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:02.960)

At this point, his career could take a major blow if he was to say, I paid for 10 abortions.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:08.560)

Oh, this Alex guy is all anti-abortion, but he just said that he paid for 10 abortions.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:13.439)

He didn't have the position in his sphere and his community to be able to have that

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and justify it.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:23.720)

He would have been looked at a certain way.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:27.840)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:28.840)

And in evangelical communities, there's absolutely...

Unknown Speaker (01:30:31.220)

It's not a hard time limit, but a year after you pay for an abortion, you have not repented

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enough.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:38.159)

And two years after you've paid for plenty of them, it's like, hey, yeah, he's a changed

Unknown Speaker (01:30:42.159)

man.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:43.159)

It's completely different.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:44.159)

It's totally fine.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:45.159)

Well, also the repentance at this point in his career would probably require some humility.

Unknown Speaker (01:30:49.760)

It would probably require him to accept that he's not the arbiter of all these, but now

Unknown Speaker (01:30:58.960)

he's a star.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:00.199)

And so his repentance is not really required for him to be humble.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:04.560)

Hey, quite literally when you're a star, they let you do whatever you want.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:08.439)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:09.439)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:10.439)

So Alex kind of wants this case to go real quick, and the lawyer informs him that it's

Unknown Speaker (01:31:14.359)

going to take a while.

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No, no, no.

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End abortion today.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:17.359)

He seems to get pretty mad about that, or at least frustrated, and then just weaves

Unknown Speaker (01:31:21.659)

nicely into a little bit of transphobia.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:24.000)

So we're talking about years here?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:26.880)

It could be years or it could be one year.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:30.239)

Millions more dead children.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:32.119)

Right.

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And we have to wait.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:34.880)

The federal district court here has a lot of decisions to make.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:39.640)

And sometimes these things just move very, very swiftly, and other times they get bogged

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down.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:45.079)

Well, how do we lobby to make sure it moves quickly?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:47.640)

Well, I suppose it's a lot more important than can a school teacher wear a dress?

Unknown Speaker (01:31:54.840)

They're a man.

Unknown Speaker (01:31:55.840)

You know, they've got cases like that, I know, in the courts.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:00.119)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:01.119)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:02.119)

And it's good to see that Alex is pretty early on that train.

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Great.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:07.039)

Yep.

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Awesome.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:09.039)

So we have one last clip, and like I said, it is bizarre that Alex is not talking about

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his own involvement in abortions, because it's hyper-relevant to the conversation that's

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being had.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:23.239)

Yeah.

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I think that someone having abortions, paying for an abortion, is not anything to be ashamed

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of.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:33.840)

I don't think that there's anything wrong with it.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:35.279)

It's great.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:36.279)

But...

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Do it.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:38.279)

Alex does.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:39.279)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:40.279)

In that community, Alex does think that there's something wrong with it.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:42.159)

He thinks it's the ultimate evil of murdering children.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:45.520)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:46.520)

But you can also be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:47.880)

Of course you can.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:49.000)

So this clip really feels like Alex talking to himself.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:53.039)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:54.039)

He doesn't know what we know from things that he talks about later, but is not talking about

Unknown Speaker (01:32:58.079)

at this point.

Unknown Speaker (01:32:59.079)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:00.079)

And I know a lot of you had abortions out there, and so you've tried to rationalize

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what's happening, but you've got this pain in your heart and your stomach and your mind.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:06.800)

Why don't you repent and ask God for forgiveness, and beg the baby for forgiveness, and you'll

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be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:15.039)

You'll be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:16.039)

Well, then keep it legal.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:17.920)

Like the thief hanging on the cross next to Christ, folks, you really can be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:21.840)

It was a human being you killed.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:24.520)

Stop being a party to the murder of other children.

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Join us in the fight against this.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:28.619)

So he's saying this like you can be.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:31.279)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:32.279)

He's talking about himself.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:33.279)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:34.279)

It sounds like he's trying to reassure himself that he can be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:33:37.560)

Oh, of course.

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And I think that this is an unfair way for him to discuss this when he's holding back

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that information.

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Everyone else who does this now is evil forever, and they're working for the devil and should

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be punished.

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Obviously, from prior to this moment when I did it, you were still able to be forgiven

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for it.

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I was grandfathered in to the whole let's punish everybody for the crime of murdering

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babies thing.

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I think that there's such a weird sort of line with this, and a lot of it comes down

Unknown Speaker (01:34:16.479)

to I don't think that people should be required to disclose things that are personal.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:24.520)

If someone did have an abortion or something, I don't think that it's anybody's business

Unknown Speaker (01:34:29.439)

that they don't want it to be their business.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:31.199)

Of course not.

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It's personal.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:33.199)

It's your business.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:35.560)

That said, Alex is engaging in a conversation that applies to himself deeply about a political

Unknown Speaker (01:34:42.920)

issue that he's trying to deprive people of being able to access abortions.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:51.319)

In this case, it does feel like he has an obligation to denote that.

Unknown Speaker (01:34:56.840)

In the same way, when he talks about his big Berkey water filters and stuff, he has a responsibility

Unknown Speaker (01:35:04.239)

to say they're a sponsor.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:08.359)

I was thinking the same thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:09.680)

I was just going, this reminds me so much of just spawn con.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:14.399)

There's such a huge conflict of interest here.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:17.359)

It's like an emotional conflict of interest for him.

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Such that it's just fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:24.239)

It's just really fucked up.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:26.359)

You listened to that last clip, and it does really feel like he's talking to himself.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:31.180)

To the extent that this conversation is actually a psychodrama of his own, him trying to deal

Unknown Speaker (01:35:39.000)

with his own past that's being projected as political principle or advice to the audience,

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that is unfair.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:48.199)

That is a conflict of interest.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:50.920)

I think that it's unethical.

Unknown Speaker (01:35:54.199)

But then again, it does come up against the principle that I don't think people should

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be forced to disclose things.

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I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:01.659)

It's a mess, but I do know that as a radio show, this is inappropriate.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:06.840)

To the extent that you are influencing law, you gotta disclose that shit.

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You gotta.

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Because if this is who you are, then that's the context with which I'm gonna understand

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what you're saying.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:22.920)

And maybe if this personal experience that you have is really a major portion of what's

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driving your position and this emotional plea that you're making to the audience in service

Unknown Speaker (01:36:34.960)

of trying to change law, it does feel like it's super relevant.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:40.199)

And again, I understand the reasoning behind not talking about it.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:44.479)

He couldn't get away with it back then.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:46.680)

I mean, it's just the thing that follows, obviously, is he's leaving out that if you're

Unknown Speaker (01:36:53.119)

getting one now, you can be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:36:56.539)

It's very conveniently in the past, if you got an abortion, you can be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:00.760)

At no point in time is he saying that in the context of discussing abortion in the present,

Unknown Speaker (01:37:07.979)

it is evil, punishment, violence, awful.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:12.239)

We need to overthrow the fucking government.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:14.840)

In the position of the past, you can be forgiven.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:17.920)

There's no worries.

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There's nothing.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:19.920)

In the present, you should be killed for getting an abortion.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:23.260)

So I end this on a pretty good, obviously disgusted, but also conflicted position about

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this whole thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:34.960)

I do think it's very interesting the way that Alex refuses to talk about his own experience

Unknown Speaker (01:37:39.319)

when he does later.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:41.640)

I think that's...

Unknown Speaker (01:37:42.640)

But I mean, in terms of this episode, I really think that the most important takeaway is

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that nobody was on the 9-11 planes.

Unknown Speaker (01:37:51.359)

I think that what happened in that exchange is so relevant to understanding the way Alex

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deals with people who disagree with him or are threatening to his ideas.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:05.359)

And also it's such a good just demonstration of why talking to him is a waste of time for

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pretty much anybody.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:11.920)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:12.920)

I mean, and it's another power dynamic to that exact same situation.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:17.479)

When you talk about the way that Bill Ayers talked to him of just like the same kind of

Unknown Speaker (01:38:22.279)

functional, just stay on topic, just stay on topic, buddy, just stay on topic.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:27.479)

But because Bill Ayers is a name, then Alex has to engage with that to some extent.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:33.260)

He can't just scream over you.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:35.960)

He can't gaslight you directly while scolding you for daring to ask him those questions.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:43.119)

In this power imbalance, he just gets to yell at you and say, you're stupid.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:46.439)

He gets to pretend you're talking about something else, and as soon as you're gone, he can go

Unknown Speaker (01:38:50.000)

back to...

Unknown Speaker (01:38:51.000)

You're not listening to me.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:52.000)

You're not listening to me.

Unknown Speaker (01:38:53.000)

You are not...

Unknown Speaker (01:38:54.000)

You know?

Unknown Speaker (01:38:55.000)

I didn't say that there was nobody on board until we hang up, and then I'm going to suggest

Unknown Speaker (01:38:59.079)

it again.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:00.079)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:01.079)

I think that's so just awful and what he does all the time.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:05.640)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:06.640)

Anyway, Jordan, we will be back on Wednesday.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:08.840)

Indeed.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:09.840)

But until then, we have a website.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:10.840)

We do.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:11.840)

It's knowledgefight.com.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:12.840)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:13.840)

We are also on Twitter.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:15.199)

We are on Twitter.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:16.199)

That's knowledge underscore fight.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:17.199)

And not go to bed, Jordan.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:18.199)

You bet.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:19.199)

We'll be back, Jordan.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:20.199)

But until then, I'm Neo.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:21.199)

I'm Leo.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:22.199)

I'm DZXClark.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:23.199)

I'm Daryl Rundis.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:24.199)

I'm Dan in Illinois.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:26.560)

Andy in Kansas.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:27.560)

You're on the air.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:28.560)

Thanks for holding.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:29.560)

Hello, Alex.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:30.560)

I'm a first time caller.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:31.560)

I'm a huge fan.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:32.560)

I love your work.

Unknown Speaker (01:39:33.560)

I love you.