Transcript/373: April 24, 2013

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N-N-N-N-N-N-Knowledge Fight

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Damn, and, Jordan, I am SWEATING

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knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray

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I have great respect for knowledgefight

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knowledgefight

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys

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Shang, we are the bad guys, knowledgefight

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Dan and Jordan, knowledgefight

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Red Alert, Red Alert, Red Alert

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Need, need money, Red Alert, Red Alert

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Andy and Chansis, Andy and Chansis

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Stop it, Andy and Chansis, Andy and Chansis

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It's time to pray

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Andy and Chansis, you're on the air, thanks for holding us

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Hello Alex, I'm a 6-pin caller, I'm a huge fan

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I love your work

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knowledgefight

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knowledgefight.com

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I love you

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Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan

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I'm Jordan

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We're a couple dudes, like to sit around, drink novelty beverages

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and talk a little bit about Alex Jones

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Indeed we are Dan

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Jordan

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Dan?

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Jordan

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Let me ask you a question

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Got it

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Have you ever been stood up?

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Yeah, yeah, I got stood up by a therapist once

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Actually led to the end of a relationship

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You were going on a date, or?

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No

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I had, I used to be really bad at keeping appointments

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and I still am a little bit, but when I really focus on it

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I'm pretty good at it

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You know, writing down, making, double checking everything

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You got a calendar up there

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Sure

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And so back in Missouri, I had a therapist that I was working with

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and I had written down a date that we, for our next session

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you know, I knew when we were supposed to meet up

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Now, at this point in my life, things were real bad

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I was very broke

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and I could barely afford gas

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and I was in a

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Things have changed so little

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So little

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I was in a particularly tight situation at that time of the month

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I'm not entirely sure all of the circumstances surrounding it

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but I end up, like, last bit of gas

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just, like, to get to the therapist's office

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Yeah, on neutral at the very end, sliding in there

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Yeah, yeah

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And, like, I'm just, like, real, like, I did it, I stuck to it

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I show up, no one's there

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No one's there at the office

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It's just completely dead

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No one, I was just

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Just empty

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I'm just furious

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Like they went out of business

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Yeah, basically

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And so I end up, like, getting back in my car, getting home

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and I double check everything

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All of my calendars, everything

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I had the right time, I had the right day, everything

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and so I confront my therapist about it

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and he is not giving an inch

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Oh, of course not, no

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He insists I had the wrong time

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That's a bad therapist

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It's one of those things, too, like, I look back on that

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and it's like, did I have the wrong time?

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And even now, like, 10, 12, I don't know, maybe even 15 years later

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I am certain I had the right time

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You will not be gaslit by a fucking Missouri therapist

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Yeah, so that ended that sort of working together relationship

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I've always resented that a little bit

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Stood up by a therapist, real bummer

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Man, that's such a high level of responsibility, too

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You can't be standing people up if you're a therapist

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No, it's your job to be there

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Yeah, that's, yeah, literally your job is to be there for people

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Outside of that, I mean, I'm sure I have been stood up, like, on dates or something

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I'm positive I have, but I never really take those too personal

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Yeah, you take it in stride

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Kind of like, eh, there must be a reason

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Just kind of like, eh, I would probably stand me up, too

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See, now, that's why you needed to see that therapist in fucking Missouri

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Bingo

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It's his fault from the beginning

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I'll just be like, I'll have another drink and go home

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Yeah, yeah, yeah

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But, yeah, I don't know, I don't have too many memories that

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But I do have a lot of memories of listening to Alex Jones

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He's never stood me up

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Ah, that's true

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And tell you that right now

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That's true

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So, Jordan, today we, as mentioned on a Friday episode, we are back in the past

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Yes, thank God

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And it's very exciting for me

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Because as we go through this 2013 investigation

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Checking into the stuff that Alex did after Sandy Hook

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And now, more specifically, the Boston bombing

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So that's the phase we've entered here

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We are now at April 24th, 2013, which is my birthday

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Hey, happy birthday, Dan from the past

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So now we get to see if Alex Jones has any gifts to give me

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Six years in the past

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I'm going to imagine you on this day wearing a little birthday crown

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If that's okay with you

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Sure, by all means

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Alright

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So before we get down to my birthday episode of Alex Jones' Boston bombing coverage

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We're going to take a little moment to say thank you to some folks who have signed up

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And are supporting the show

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So, first of all, Will, thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk

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I'm a policy wonk

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Thanks, Will

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Next, Nick, thank you so much, you're now a policy wonk

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I'm a policy wonk

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Thank you, Nick

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Next, Pasta Claw, you are now a policy wonk

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I'm a policy wonk

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Thank you, Pasta Claw

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Thank you so much

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Next, Adam, thank you so much, you are now a policy wonk

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I'm a policy wonk

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Thank you, Adam

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Thank you, Adam

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Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you, Kathleen.

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Thank you so much. Thanks, Joshua.

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Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you, Joshua.

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And finally, Clayton. Thank you so much.

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It's not this guy, but I wish it was.

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The lead singer of Blood, Sweat, and Tears, David Clayton Thomas.

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David Clayton Thomas.

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One of the best horn rock vocalists.

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Sure. Sure.

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Which is a crowded list.

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I don't even know where to begin making that top five.

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There's too many.

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Well, Dickie Barrett from Mighty, Mighty Ballstones.

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The end.

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The guy from Chase.

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The guy from Ides of March. They had some horns.

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Anyway, Clayton, thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you so much, Clayton.

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Yes, thank you.

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If you're listening out there and you love Blood, Sweat, and Tears or this podcast,

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you can support our show by going to our website, knowledgefight.com.

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Clicking the button that says support the show, we would appreciate it.

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It'd be very helpful.

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So, Jordan.

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Yeah.

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Last we left off, Alex is doing everything he can in his power to create various conspiracy theories

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surrounding the bombing.

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Right.

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Just taking whatever piece of information comes out and molding his theory to match that.

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Right.

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As well as manipulating things about those stories to match what he had already determined.

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And I think we will see a continuation of this.

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Right.

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And actually, I think there's some really interesting stuff that happens on this episode.

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All joking about it being my birthday aside.

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There's some really...

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There's something to celebrate.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Gotcha. Okay.

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But we start off with Alex basically completely admitting that he sent Dan Badandi to go to

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the press conferences that he ended up disrupting with his bombastic questioning.

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Dan Badandi, m4wars.com, East Coast reporter, privately and now publicly known as The Kraken.

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I said like...

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I said...

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Monday, John Brown walks up and says, do we release The Kraken?

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That's our nickname for him.

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And I said, yes, release The Kraken.

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That was at like three o'clock right after the bombing happened as he's in Rhode Island

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right outside Boston.

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So, I mean, that is very interesting and...

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That is very interesting.

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Yeah.

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What does he say about that relationship now again?

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He does not like to make it so overt that he tells Badandi what to do

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because the times that Dan Badandi went down to Newtown in Connecticut and harassed the

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victims' families and the lawyers and the people involved in the Sandy Hook situation

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was after this point, after April 2013.

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Ooh, that's not good.

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So if Alex has established a precedent here that he deploys The Kraken...

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He does release The Kraken on occasion.

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Yeah, that does seem to indicate that possibly the behaviors that Dan Badandi illustrated

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and did in Newtown were at the behest of the one releasing The Kraken.

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Yeah, and Alex can't be like, no, no, no.

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It was my underling who did it and they didn't ask me about it very clearly.

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It was like, hey, Alex, should we allow this man to harass people?

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And he was like, go for it.

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And Dan Badandi's only skill is yelling at people and being a dick.

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Yeah, so the idea that Alex...

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Man, that's a common skill.

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So Alex, like a couple hours after the bombing, had already decided, well, we're disrupting

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this.

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Like he had no reason by that point to think this is a false flag, although we know that

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he determined it immediately.

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Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He had no reason to think like, well, what we need is a bombastic guy who's going to

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yell the truth at people.

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He just knew like, hey, there's going to be a lot of media attention here.

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Yep.

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Let's get...

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Put Infowars on TV.

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This is our firebrand.

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I'm resistant to call him a gadfly, but let's get that guy.

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Gadfly?

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He's not a gadfly.

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Yeah, you should definitely stay resistant to calling him that.

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So Alex is really bragging about Dan Badandi on this beginning of this episode.

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And a big part of it is because he got on national news, international news yelling

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Infowars.com, which led to a ton of fucking traffic.

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So he's the toast of the town at Infowars right now.

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Sure, sure.

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So Alex is talking about how big his head is.

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And I think that this dips into a little bit of phrenology accidentally.

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What?

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There is a deep fascination with head size that happens at the beginning of this episode.

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Weird.

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All right, I'm sorry.

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I promise to be in a good mood today because I was basically in a controlled rage all yesterday.

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That is not an act, by the way.

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Sounds like it is.

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And I have decided to be more friendly and I've decided to be nicer and I've decided

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to be nice.

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By the way, Jakari Jackson is in the control room right now.

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He ran over here.

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Are you jealous that Dan Badandi has a bigger bald head than you, Jakari?

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You just said you're gonna be nice.

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Are you a little bit jealous right now?

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No, I'm not jealous that Dan Badandi has a, actually I think my head is bigger than Dan's.

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Packed.

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That's ridiculous.

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Preposterous.

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His is more bald because Dan shaves with razors.

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I shave with clippers.

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You know what?

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I bet next time he's in town, we will have a contest on air.

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We will make $500 prize.

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We will measure circumference of the cranium.

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If you want to give a $500 prize with the biggest head.

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Yes.

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Obviously I'm kind of joking that this is a phrenology related, but it's absurd.

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Like it keeps going.

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Alex keeps talking about relative head size.

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My head's bigger than yours, buddy.

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What are you talking?

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I got a bigger pumpkin than you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All right, Jakari.

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That's not why I came over here.

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I had some other business.

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You're a little bit jealous right now.

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Look, it's all right.

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Okay.

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It's all right.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I understand.

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All right.

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By the way, the AP and others are trying to imply that I'm basically involved with the

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bombers now.

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Well, so we're gonna cover it all.

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They had to blame the Tea Party one way or the other, huh?

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Pulled it right back.

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Quite a throwaway headline there.

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I'm sorry.

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I didn't mean to cut you off.

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What were you saying?

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I think Jakari has the right response to that.

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I didn't come over here for this.

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Which is just I didn't know.

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What?

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You're an abusive boss.

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Yeah.

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I don't think that there's necessarily phrenology related things here, but there is an interesting

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layer of Alex is a big old bigot, which we know generally speaking, and he's talking

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about it being good to have a larger head, which in that world leads you to phrenology.

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What are you talking about, Jakari?

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A white man has the biggest head.

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Of course.

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White men have bigger heads.

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This is science.

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Right.

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It's weird.

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That is weird.

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That's what happens when Alex decides to be friendly.

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You know, and he decides to have a happy time beginning of the show.

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I do like his version of like, I've decided to be nice.

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Jakari, I'm going to belittle you to your face.

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You have a small head.

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Next.

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So, the birthday gift I think is that, at very least, news has come out that Tamerlan

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Tsarnaev, the older brother in the bombing combo, was a fan of Infowars.

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I thought it was that Jakari's head grew two sizes this day.

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That is not a gift to me.

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I've been waiting for this bit of news to break, because I remember this wrinkle from

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the story from when real life was happening in 2013, and I'm excited that we've gotten

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to it, because I didn't remember exactly, you know, some of the details and how Alex

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responded to it.

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So, you know, you have news reports coming out about Tamerlan being a fan of Infowars.

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Sure.

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Alex just throws away that headline there.

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So, we'll get into it a little bit later when he actually touches on the story, but

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it's like, yes, when I heard that, I'm like, we are fucking moving along.

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Now's the time for it.

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So, as we've talked about on a previous episode, there's that whole ricin letter situation

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where the Elvis impersonator got arrested, but he was being set up by a guy who ran a

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conspiracy blog.

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At no point can you summarize that for me, and I will not find it absolutely wonderful.

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It's a pretty crazy story.

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Alex is still insisting that they're just shuffling around patsies and they're probably

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going to kill him.

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We also have big economic developments.

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We have big developments in the Ryerson case.

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I'm on record saying they'd probably go through two or three different patsies.

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That's what they tend to do whenever they've actually launched the anthrax or ricin attack

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themselves.

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And with ricin case crumbling, FBI targets new man, and then maybe the third or fourth

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patsy will be killed in police custody after confessing, of course, if they follow the

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standard stuff that they tend to do.

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I don't understand the standard.

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I don't understand any of this stuff that is absolutely not what happened.

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They're not giving you the deluxe package, Dan.

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They're just giving you the standard one.

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You don't need it.

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No frills?

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It's like the undercarriage in a warm climate.

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You just don't need it.

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This is a bad prediction, so I don't know what else to say.

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Alex starts talking about how the man, the media, the globalists, they all want you to

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think that the idea that this was a fake bombing, you know, false flag, all that good stuff.

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They want you to think that's a conspiracy theory.

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That is what it is, though.

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Well.

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I mean, literally.

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Well, here's the thing.

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It's not.

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Really disagreeing.

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They want you to think that, and Alex has got some reasons you shouldn't, and I think

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they stink.

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They just hope that they call that a conspiracy theory and you don't read, you know, the New

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York Times admitting it or the Washington Post, where they've come out and admitted

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that the FBI foils its own terror plots, but usually stops them before they go through.

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In the case of the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, it's on record.

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AP, New York Times, federal courts, why they had to admit it, because their own intelligence

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officer, Ahmad Salam, said you're setting us up.

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You're a real bomb, real detonators.

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Now you're going to let the bombing go forward?

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I'm not going to be part of killing people.

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And they said, well, you're going to go to jail then.

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So then he freaked out and clandestinely recorded them days before the bombing and after the

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bombing.

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Sure.

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And then he did a press conference and announced it, and that's why he got paid off 1.4 million

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to go back to Egypt and shut up instead of being given cement shoes.

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So Alex is playing pretty fast and loose with the details of the 1993 World Trade Center

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bombing here.

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But there's just enough truth in what he's saying that he would likely be able to trick

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anyone who just kind of want to feel like believing in more interesting versions of

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stories.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Ahmad Salam was an FBI informant who had penetrated the terrorist cell that had planned to detonate

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a bomb at the World Trade Center.

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And later he would go on to testify in the trials that would result in the convictions

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of Ramzi Yousef, Abdul-Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah.

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Salam made recordings that were supplied to the FBI as well as recordings of his own conversations

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with FBI agents.

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And according to the tapes, the FBI did have an idea that this group that Salam had infiltrated

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was planning to make a bomb and commit a bombing, but the specific details of it and the target

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were not known.

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Agents were apparently not in agreement about the best way to proceed, with one plan being

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to supply fake explosive powder for the bomb so that they could arrest everyone when they

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attempted to carry out the bombing.

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I believe that's called the Wile E. Coyote plan.

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That's ordering from ACME.

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This was discussed, but the tapes explicitly show that this was not the plan that was chosen.

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Instead, they wanted Salam to wear a wire and gather more information about the plot.

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Some very important context for what happened in the lead up to the bombing comes from a

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2014 L.A. Times story, which was one of the first times Salam spoke publicly after about

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20 years in hiding.

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Quote, he says he has carried a good measure of guilt because shortly before the bombing

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of the World Trade Center, he refused to wear a hidden FBI microphone and dropped out of

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the undercover work.

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He told agents wearing a wire was too risky and might bring harm to him or someone in

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his family.

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He later regretted the decision, saying he could have saved the six lives lost in that

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attack.

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I could have stopped it, he said, but I failed.

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Salam was embedded with these terrorists and provided crucial information about them that

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led to their arrest, but he didn't entrap them, and his involvement in the case no way

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demonstrates that this was a government plot or a false flag.

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There are countless complete lies that go around about Salam and conspiracy communities

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that distort real details in order to suit their purposes.

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For instance, a book called The Puzzle of Fascism claims that the FBI paid Salam $1

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million to, quote, build a bomb.

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But that million dollar figure is the amount that he was given by the government for his

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testimony and part of his induction into the witness protection program.

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Other people claim that the FBI replaced the fake explosive powder Salam was using to build

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a bomb with real powder, but according to every single piece of verifiable information

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I can find, this is just fabricated detail.

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This is mirrored in InfoWars coverage, where they said in a 2010 article, quote, even Wikipedia

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admits that harmless powder was swapped with real bomb material.

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FBI informant Ahmad Salam became alarmed at the introduction of real explosives and recorded

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his conversations with the FBI, proving they enabled and allowed the bombing to go forward

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that killed four people.

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Footnote, Wikipedia admits this because five minutes before I wrote this, I wrote it on Wikipedia.

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Yeah, that Wikipedia article doesn't admit that, and even if it did, like you said,

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anyone could easily edit the entry to say that.

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It's not a good source.

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Also, if InfoWars can't even get the death toll right, I'm not sure it's wise to trust them

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on the big picture issues like alleged secretive plots.

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You know, it's about focusing on the important details, Dan.

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Sure.

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Interestingly, on November 19th, 2015, Alex actually had Ahmad Salam on his show for an interview.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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Weirdly, given the opportunity to ask direct questions about how exactly the government orchestrated

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the World Trade Center bombing, he spent most of his time trying to create fear about Muslim immigrants.

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If Alex believed that this guy is a first-hand expert about false flags and he was involved in one,

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and the bombing at the World Trade Center wasn't actually carried out primarily by Islamic terrorists,

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why would he interview him about how he shouldn't let Muslims into the US and Europe?

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That's a really good question.

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Seems strange.

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That is odd.

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I can't believe I wasted 40 minutes listening to Alex ask Ahmad Salam about how Obama is being

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secretly blackmailed by the Muslim Brotherhood instead of actually nailing down his conspiracy theory

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about the World Trade Center bombing.

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Well, because it's not true.

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It almost felt like Alex was worried that if he asked anything too direct, Salam might contradict him,

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and that would be really fucking uncomfortable.

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That's a really good worry to have.

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If you're Alex, that's a real dicey interview for you to do.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Also, Alex probably doesn't want his audience to actually look into the trials that Salam was involved in,

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because in 1995, Salam's actions jeopardized the entire prosecution of a semi-related terrorist cell

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he'd infiltrated and irrevocably damaged his credibility.

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From a New York Times article with the headline,

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Key Witness in Bomb Plot Trial Admits Lying About His Exploits,

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quote, the prosecution's most important witness in the terrorism trial of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman

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and 10 others admitted yesterday that he had lied for years about his background,

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boasting to federal agents and friends that he was an intelligence officer in the Egyptian army,

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and in reality, he'd been a technical officer who never saw combat.

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The article goes on, quote, once he said he even lied under oath in a criminal trial in Manhattan,

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claiming he'd been wounded trying to protect President Anwar Sadat of Egypt when he was assassinated in 1981.

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These were things that were brought up in the trial by the prosecution,

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because they were so worried about how brutal cross-examination would be

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if they didn't defuse Salam's severe credibility problems.

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His pattern of lying had the potential to completely destroy the case since he was such a crucial witness.

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Kind of should have.

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Yeah. The actual facts that are available do not support the story Alex is telling on this episode about Ahmad Salam,

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and I can't really find evidence that Salam has ever told this version of the story himself.

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However, even if he has, I'm not sure it would be wise to believe him unless he could prove it,

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which is generally my policy with people who have had to admit that they've lied under oath.

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That one's usually pretty signatory of...

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It's a bad sign for someone's reliability, but it's also a weirdly common thing on Infowars for their guests.

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That is strange. That is strange, the habit of lying under oath.

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A lot of folks lying under oath.

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Is it like an initiation thing, like you have to lie under oath before you can go on Infowars?

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It's a prerequisite.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't do a lot of vetting of their guests, but that one, really important.

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Yeah, it's super strange to me. It's interesting mostly that Alex had the dude on and didn't get into that stuff.

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Like, that seems very strange to me. That's super suspicious.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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I don't like this story because I'm pretty sure I hate everybody involved with it.

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I hate the terrorists, I hate the FBI, I hate this guy, and I hate Alex. That's everybody.

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I think this guy meant well. Maybe.

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Okay.

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Probably.

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Fine.

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I believe it. I'm fine with that.

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I will say that his interview with Alex is rank xenophobia.

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Yeah.

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Like, coming from him as well.

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Oh, okay, good.

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He's...

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Well, then he's been redeemed in my eyes, Dan.

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Yeah. I don't know what happened to get him to the point where he is in 2015 going on Alex's show to agitate against Muslim immigrants, but he's there.

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Yeah. That is weird.

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Yeah. So, Alex gets in now into this... On our last episode, we saw that he's sort of transitioning towards casting suspicion towards Saudi Arabians.

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Right, right.

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And so, he discusses that Sunil Tripathi, who was the kid who had been missing for a month prior to the bombing.

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Right, right, right, right.

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He was found in a river having committed suicide.

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He discusses that a little bit and then brings up a really messed up story.

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And remember that Saudi Arabian that was missing that fit one of the descriptions of the people there at the scene?

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He's been found in the river, which I again said, I think you'll start finding some of these people in the river.

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The question is, was he the river beforehand?

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There was a local...

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Also, which river?

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Muslim leader saying the government was involved in provocateur and terror in Austin, and he bound his arms and legs, slit his wrist and his guts open.

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He'd clearly been tortured and threw himself off the Congress bridge, and the police immediately said it was a suicide.

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I wonder if they would have tied up Breitbart and then slit his wrist and tortured him and then thrown him in a river.

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Maybe put him in a steel cage.

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He put himself in a cage and had a crane lower him into the river like Houdini, but he didn't get out.

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We did an entire episode about Andrew Breitbart's death, and that was not a murder.

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No.

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It wasn't even a suicide. That was just a super unhealthy man who had a history of heart attacks who loved cocaine and booze.

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His testicles were unremarkable.

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That's right. I do remember that part.

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Only thing I remember.

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I was thinking about it. I was like, I remember he's a huge alcoholic. He's got a giant nose near the end, and then...

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Anthony Cumi has said he liked to party, and he liked to stay up. That's all I'll say about that?

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Yeah.

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All right. The Saudi Arabian man that Alex is talking about, like I said, is Sunil Tripathi, the Brown University student who had been missing since March 16th,

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and who dumb, dumb internet sleuths decided to turn into a suspect in the bombing for no reason.

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His body was found on April 23rd, and he had absolutely nothing to do with the bombing.

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His family was deeply traumatized by the experience of having their loved one be missing and then dealing with his death,

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all while being harassed by dumb, dumb internet sleuths who were convinced that he was suspicious just because of his country of origin.

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This news story that Alex is talking about, this Muslim activist, involves a man named Riyadh Hamad, whose body was found in Lady Bird Lake in Austin on April 16th, 2008.

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The details that Alex is giving, like his stomach being cut open, I can't find in any official account, but I do know what Alex is lying about.

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Alex had Dr. Ibrahim Dramali on his show on April 22nd, 2008 to discuss the case, and then Infowars published an article titled,

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quote, Condition of Riyadh Hamad's Body Contrary to Suicide.

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The article discusses Dramali saying that Hamad had been cut down his torso and that his brain was missing,

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which Alex was then reporting as being details that contradicted the police assessment of this being a suicide.

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Right, and then he held up a man's brain in his hand.

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Dr. Ibrahim Dramali was the imam of the Islamic Center of Greater Austin, who was the one who received Hamad's body after it was released from the medical examiner's office.

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Dramali said the body was in, quote, barbaric condition, and described it as if, quote, an animal might have attacked him.

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He made a formal complaint to the medical examiner's office about the presentation of the body, including the cuts to the brain cavity and the torso, which he said were inadequately sutured.

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The stuff about his torso being cut and all the related complaints that Dramali made about the shoddy job of the medical examiner,

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not anything to do with the circumstances of Hamad's death.

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The brain hadn't been removed before he got to the autopsy, when it was then removed and embalmed and whatever it is.

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Yes, at least that's the conclusion you'd have to come to, because I've read the autopsy report, and it's pretty clear that none of that kind of trauma was present.

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Empty head!

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Alex is willfully misrepresenting that. I have no qualms saying that.

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He has every reason to know exactly what Dramali was talking about, especially considering it kind of turned into a big deal locally in Austin,

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from an article about the circumstances in the Austin Chronicle.

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Quote, Dramali demanded and received a meeting with the medical examiner, Dolanic, and Austin Police Chief, Art Acevedo.

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Afterward, Dramali and Dolanic each told the Chronicle that they believe the meeting was useful and should lead to better medical examiner practices,

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but Dramali said he, quote, cannot accept the apology offered by Dolanic for any misunderstanding or mistakes.

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Quote, I believe they were sending us a message, he said.

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Quote, and that I told the people here at the mosque that they believe they do not have to respect the bodies of Muslims.

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It's very clear from the article and from the ensuing interaction with the medical examiner and Acevedo that this was an issue that arose from feelings of poorly carried out mortuary work.

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That was a disrespect to the Muslim community.

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Yeah, and living in the United States as you do, I totally get the immediate jump to like, these fuckers are fucking with us.

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But at the same time, it's just probably more likely the guy was hungover.

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From what I understand, the medical examiner's explanation for it was like, there's a misunderstanding, our office doesn't carry out cosmetic work that needs to be done to prepare for burial.

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Right, right, we're not a funeral home.

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I'm not sure who's right here, and I'm not particularly interested in that except to say that these are the complaints that Ibrahim Dramali was making.

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And Alex is misrepresenting it as being evidence that Riyadh Hamad's body was all tortured up and all of that.

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Yeah, I doubt Alex is allowing Ibrahim on there to talk about prevalent anti-Muslim bias.

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Probably not.

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Alex's behavior surrounding this story is profoundly disrespectful, no matter how Hamad died.

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As far as actual details go, police reports indicate that Hamad had duct tape on his face and that his hands and legs were bound.

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These would lead somebody to believe that this was not a suicide, but in reality, that assumption is probably too hasty.

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If someone were definitely wanting to follow through with their attempt at killing themselves and they had thought it through,

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it makes sense they might try to find ways to limit their ability to change their mind at the last moment or limit their body's instinctual reactions towards survival.

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Also, you have to consider that someone might want to commit suicide but not want people to think it was suicide because that's very painful for their loved ones.

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Someone in that kind of headspace might try to make things look like a murder. It's not impossible that that was the case.

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While it would be presumptuous of me to say that I can definitely say that this was a case of suicide, I cannot see any evidence that I've been able to find that makes me think that it was a murder at all.

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It makes all the evidence that's available fit the explanation that the police have offered.

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Riyadh Hamad was the founder of the Palestinian Children's Welfare Fund, a charity that worked to improve the lives of children living in refugee camps in Palestine.

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I can find no evidence of him talking about the government provocateur-ing terror, as Alex is alleging.

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I have no idea where that's coming from.

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A couple of months before his death, the FBI and IRS stopped by his apartment and took a ton of files from him about his business and his charity,

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claiming they had probable cause to investigate him on charges of wire fraud, bank fraud, and money laundering.

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Charges were never brought in the case because he ended up passing away, so I don't really know what the reality is here.

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Whether or not these were legitimate suspicions is kind of secondary to the fact that this sort of a raid would definitely alter a person's mental state.

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This was only one of a number of pieces of circumstantial evidence you can find that make it really look like Hamad died by suicide.

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In the days before his death, he was dealing with that heightened governmental scrutiny, as well as an apparent increase in racist harassment.

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As reflected in an email he sent friends, where he told of getting late-night phone calls from someone who had asked him where his camel was.

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An article from KXAN, local Austin News, said, quote,

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Investigators on Thursday said families and other sources have told them that Hamad was suicidal.

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This all sounds very tragic. In terms of what's relevant for our show, though, Alex appears to be willfully misrepresenting details about this man's death

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in order to prop up his flimsy conspiracy theories, which I find to be ghoulish.

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Yeah, yeah. Maudlin.

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It's gross.

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It's very gross.

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Yeah. So that's a bummer.

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Yeah. Why is it okay? I wish they could. I don't like that.

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Whenever people politicize somebody's death in a fucking complete-out lie, like with Pat Tillman,

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like the former football player who fucking gave up his football career to go fight in the Iraq war,

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hated every second of what the government was doing and all that shit, and was killed in friendly fire,

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and then the government fucking covered it up and treated him like a paragon of United States colonialist justice.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:28.140)

And it's fucked up. It's fucked up, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:31.140)

Weird. So Alex now is talking, and he claims he has evidence that the White House did something,

Unknown Speaker (00:32:39.140)

but then he gets distracted by how good a mood he's in.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:43.140)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:44.140)

So we never find out what evidence he has about the White House.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:46.140)

All right. That makes sense.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:47.140)

And by the way, we have proof, ladies and gentlemen, that the White House, let me copy Rush Limbaugh here.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:54.140)

I always liked that, even as a teenager. I love that. I always wanted to...

Unknown Speaker (00:32:58.140)

The reason I wanted to get a talk radio, so I could go.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:01.140)

But I'm serious. Here I am, ladies. I always liked that, because it's that thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:07.140)

I get a little bit more.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:09.140)

See, I can't actually do it first. I'll just do it more than Limbaugh.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:15.140)

There you go. Is that impressive?

Unknown Speaker (00:33:18.140)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:19.140)

A paper shaker? Just like... Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:25.140)

Well, they got rid of stuff like wrestling that's originally in the Greek Roman wrestling,

Unknown Speaker (00:33:32.140)

the first thing they did at the Olympic Games.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:34.140)

So, yeah, synchronized swimming and curling, so we can bring back in paper popping, paper crinkling.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:44.140)

Look at that.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:45.140)

That's what made him world famous. Seven time gold winner, Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:50.140)

Unseating the former champion, Rush Limbaugh.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:53.140)

Here he is going for a record paper crinkle.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:56.140)

This is compelling radio, by the way.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:58.140)

The judges have stopped. No one has ever seen anything like this.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:02.140)

No one. Look at that. Look at the style, the grace, the different angulations, everything he's doing.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:06.140)

It's like Orson Welles' War of the Worlds. I believe this is happening.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:10.139)

Oh, wait, wait. He's stopping now. The judges. Ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:15.139)

It's unanimous. Alex Jones for his eighth and world record gold medal paper crinkling.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:22.139)

All right. I've decided to be in a good mood today.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:26.139)

This show is so fucking stupid.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:30.139)

So bad.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:31.139)

I do. I will...

Unknown Speaker (00:34:33.139)

Like, here's the thing. How do you get away with that?

Unknown Speaker (00:34:36.139)

If Rachel Maddow just spent two minutes just like...

Unknown Speaker (00:34:40.139)

There's no boss.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:41.139)

There's no boss. That's true.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:43.139)

That is fine. Everybody likes to have fun on the job. Whatever.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:47.139)

I'm not like, hey, Alex has got to be serious all the time.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:51.139)

But one of the things, the reason I play that clip is his information is really bad.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:56.139)

He's lying about the factual, serious stuff that he's talking about on the show.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:01.139)

And then the bits aren't good.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:03.139)

The show fails on every front.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:07.139)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:08.139)

It's not good. The flights of fancy aren't good.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:11.139)

The only times that anything is actually kind of good is when Alex is just on complete autopilot.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:17.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:18.139)

I don't even know if those are good.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:20.139)

It is nice to know that no matter what time period we're in, Alex, one, cannot make a good joke.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:27.139)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:28.139)

And two, ensures that this bad joke lasts for forever.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:32.139)

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty long.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:34.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.139)

So Alex is cursed by knowing too much.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:38.139)

He is way too smart, way too aware of everything.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:42.139)

And then he talks about that a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:44.139)

And in this clip, he gets down to this story about how Tamerlin was a fan.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:49.139)

But see, I am cursed with being informed.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:52.139)

It is.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:54.139)

Because I have to sit here and be attacked.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:58.139)

But I haven't even gotten to this yet.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.139)

I mean, of course, most talk show hosts would open their show with it.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:03.139)

And it's just so bizarre. I don't even know what to say.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:05.139)

Now that I had time to think about it, because Buzzfeed is always calling here and emailing and asking and asking.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:12.139)

And so I said, okay, I'll talk to them.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:14.139)

And they took out of context what I said.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:18.139)

They took it out of context.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:20.139)

Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:21.139)

His response to, when asked for comment about one of the Bombers being a fan of his, they took him out of context.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:26.139)

When he said, woo, yeah, love it.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:29.139)

That would be that would be out of context.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:31.139)

I was curious, like, how did you how were you taken out of context?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:35.139)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:36.139)

Thankfully, he explains, OK, they took out of context what I said.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:40.139)

Because, you know, they call up and they go, oh, the Associated Press is reporting that he was an info wars and Alex Jones listener.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:47.139)

And I said, OK, I pulled up AP and I said, OK, I'll talk to him because I wanted to get a statement out.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:53.139)

And I said, look, there is a slight chance they could have been listeners because so many people are listeners.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:58.139)

And instead they edited to sound like I'm an egomaniac or everybody's a listener.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:03.139)

I find that defense fucking hilarious.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:05.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:06.139)

In the time doing this show, one of the most consistent threads of Alex's broadcasting is him bragging about how gigantic his audience is.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:12.139)

Over the years, we've heard numbers in the millions to the hundreds of millions.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:16.139)

He brags all the time about how heads of foreign states are daily listeners.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:20.139)

In March 2018, Alex sincerely said on his show that his audience was 10 percent of the United States and conservatively 10 percent of the entire world population.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:30.139)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:31.139)

Yeah, which is absurd.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:32.139)

I thought he got to I thought we had one where he claimed that it was two billion.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:36.139)

No, I want to say that we got there.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:39.139)

I feel like the highest I've heard is 10 percent of the world.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:42.139)

Seven hundred million.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:43.139)

That's that's quite a bit.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:45.139)

That's quite a bit.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:46.139)

Maybe too much.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:47.139)

I bet two billion is something he said, like in terms of like video views.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:52.139)

Oh, that could be.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:53.139)

But that would be like all of his.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:55.139)

Well, he got two billion unique views on one video.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:59.139)

Everybody knows that.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:00.139)

I went and checked out this BuzzFeed story and here's the quote they used.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:03.139)

Quote, it's just standard.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:05.139)

Anyone you talk to is familiar with my show.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:07.139)

When I go out into public, half the people I meet in this country and other countries, too, say they listen to my show.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:13.139)

The show is bigger than the mainstream media admits.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:16.139)

I feel like they weren't really taking him out of context.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:19.139)

I'm pretty sure he does sound like an egomaniac.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:22.139)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:23.139)

When he's asked about reports that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a fan of Infowars, his best offense is of course he was.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:27.139)

Everyone is.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:28.139)

That's a great defense.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:29.139)

That's a good dodge.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:30.139)

So Alex doesn't have to deal with any real questions like why was he a fan or what is it about Infowars that appealed to him?

Unknown Speaker (00:38:36.139)

The downside of using this dodge is that you sound like a pompous dick.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:40.139)

So now Alex is getting defensive about that and claiming you got taken out of context.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:44.139)

The weirdest thing is that this BuzzFeed article says literally nothing to suggest Alex's show isn't as big as he claims it is.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:51.139)

There's nothing about like, he's a liar, his show is tiny.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:55.139)

That is hilarious.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:56.139)

It's a very fair article.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:59.139)

Well, if it doesn't mention how small his audience actually is, then it's not very fair at all, is it?

Unknown Speaker (00:39:03.139)

I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:04.139)

So Alex then rants about how the media is blaming him and all that for the bombing. It's absurd.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:10.139)

You know, the best article put out was by BuzzFeed. Others totally clipped it where it was like,

Unknown Speaker (00:39:16.139)

Bombers influenced by Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:19.139)

They did it for Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:22.139)

There's got to be 50 articles out.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:24.139)

I don't even have time to look at them all.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:25.139)

I mean, look at some of these.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:27.139)

Look at some of these headlines here.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:29.139)

Gawker accused marathon bomber influenced by Infowars.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:32.139)

Bomber influenced by Infowars by Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:36.139)

Here's another one.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:38.139)

Tamerlan believed in basically every conspiracy theory, but Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:42.139)

The AP headline is bomb suspect influenced by mysterious radical.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:46.139)

And then Infowars is in here.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:48.139)

It's like, oh, who's the radical?

Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.139)

Matt Drudge tweets kind words for Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:53.139)

One hell of a broadcast in such homogenized media.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:55.139)

And then they try to go, oh, look, he's supporting the guy that supports the terrorist.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:59.139)

I mean, it's just no end to it, ladies and gentlemen.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:02.139)

And I told you and you all saw it every show on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, you name it.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:09.139)

It's going to be a white guy.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:11.139)

It's going to be a tea partier.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:13.139)

It's going to be a gun owner.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:14.139)

And they said, ladies and gentlemen, the rest has been made.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:16.139)

Axelrod, who said big news tomorrow, White House.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:19.139)

You know, they're planting the media.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:21.139)

They're a surrogate.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:23.139)

They're sheep dipped minions out of the out of the White House directly into the so-called media.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:28.139)

I mean, half the pundits now on CNN are former White House.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:30.139)

Same thing on MSNBC or maybe more than half.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.139)

And what do they come out and say?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:35.139)

Oh, I made the arrest.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:37.139)

You right wingers are going to get it.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:39.139)

Oh, you get it.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:41.139)

You get it.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:42.139)

And oh, right wingers are probably mailing riots into pro-gun people.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:48.139)

Yeah, right.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:49.139)

And then, oh, the White House has got something suspicious as well to act like they didn't do it, to act like they weren't involved.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:57.139)

Yeah, there it is. Alex Jones, Infowars founder, comments on Boston bomber visiting his website.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.139)

So that's the new guilt.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:05.139)

So it's important to point out that Alex has failed to substantiate any of these things about the media saying,

Unknown Speaker (00:41:12.139)

aha, we made an arrest, you right wingers are going to get it.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:15.139)

I have not found any credence to that.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:19.139)

And he keeps saying he's played the clips and I have not heard him play those clips.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:22.139)

It was a strange day for the Wall Street Journal but they did have front page headlines,

Unknown Speaker (00:41:27.139)

you right wingers are going to get it and they put an arrow towards their own editorial section.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:31.139)

He's also even just embellishing the hell out of what David Axelrod said. It's all just nonsense.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:36.139)

So what's going on here is that Alex has completely failed with the whole they're going to blame right wingers narrative.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:42.139)

That was something he'd stressed super hard based on more or less nothing and now the rest of the world has moved on.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:48.139)

The real suspect had been captured and as more information came out, no one was really interested in using the bombing to demonize right wingers.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:55.139)

But Alex still needs that to be true for his victimhood narratives to float and luckily reality threw him a little bit of a bone.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:02.139)

On the afternoon of the 23rd, it was reported that Tamerlan Zarnov had quote taken an interest in Infowars.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:08.139)

I've read a bunch of articles about this in Buzzfeed, Salon, The Atlantic and AP and I don't think it's a fair reading of these articles to say that they're blaming Alex for the bombing

Unknown Speaker (00:42:17.139)

or even trying to associate him with them unfairly. But I think it's exactly the sort of impression that Alex would like to make out of them.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:24.139)

I also don't feel like these articles get to the crux of the issue.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:28.139)

In each of these articles, they say that Tamerlan took an interest in Infowars and also mentioned he was trying to find a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:36.139)

But they treat these as unrelated pieces of information.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:40.139)

As someone who's spent as much time as I have listening to Infowars, I'm very confident that Tamerlan's interest in Infowars and his interest in the Protocols are connected.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:51.139)

The grand conspiracy that Alex yells about for hours a day is so derivative of the Protocols of Zion that it shows he becomes a natural funnel towards it or a facilitator of those same ideas.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:05.139)

He's a peasant dispenser.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:06.139)

The AP article about this isn't even about Tamerlan's interest in Infowars. That's really just a side note, more or less a trivial detail.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:13.139)

The article is about Tamerlan's shift from being a non-religious boxer and music student to a terrorist.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:19.139)

Quote, he began opposing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He turned to websites and literature claiming that the CIA was behind the terrorist attacks of 9-11 and that the Jews controlled the world.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:29.139)

An important element of the story is one that perhaps can't really be told by regular news outlets. And honestly, it might be a minor point, but I consider it to be very key.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:38.139)

And that is that Alex Jones and Infowars are compatible with so many different kinds of extremism and will never, ever do anything to deradicalize someone.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:48.139)

If you're someone who thinks that the Jews control the world, you'll hear so many things that resonate with your beliefs and Alex's rhetoric.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:55.139)

You can tell yourself that he's smart enough to be subtle so the powerful Jews don't kick him off the air and that's why he's not overt like you would like him to be.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:03.139)

If you're someone who's inclined towards Islamic extremism, Alex will provide you with all the anti-American government rhetoric you're looking for.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:11.139)

And just for good measure, you'll hear constant denials of high-profile instances of terrorism saying that they're actually the government attacking itself.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:18.139)

If you're a white supremacist, you'll get your fill of white victimhood narratives all day long, accompanied by an insistence that these white identity narratives aren't racist. They're common sense.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:29.139)

If you're a militia weirdo, Alex has you covered with all the revisionist American history you need to justify your belief that one day you'll be forced to nobly kill your fellow citizens in order to bring back the glory of the republic.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:41.139)

When I hear a report that a person driven by extremist ideology ended up committing a horrible act and I hear that they were a fan of Alex's, my immediate response is, that makes sense.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:53.139)

That doesn't mean that Alex is fully or even partially responsible for what they do, but it's foolish for us not to recognize Alex for what he is, or at least what he was for many years, and that is a radicalization pipeline.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:05.139)

Because here's the thing, no matter what you enter into Infowars with, regardless of the flavor of your extremism, there will never come a time that Alex tells you to calm down.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:15.139)

There won't be a time when Alex says that your ideas are crazy, because in order to do that, he would need to call his own ideas crazy.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:22.139)

His business model relies on never moving backward toward less extremism, so when you have someone like Tamerlan who's getting into the ideas that the Jews run the world, he's gonna find Infowars, and what he hears there is gonna make sense to him.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:34.139)

So that's really what I think is important about this story, this wrinkle of Tamerlan being a fan of Alex's.

Unknown Speaker (00:45:44.139)

It's a recognition of like, yep, that makes sense. Alex, because of the way he does his broadcast, because of the themes in it, because the tradition that he's building upon,

Unknown Speaker (00:45:58.139)

it's something that people of all different stripes of bad ideologies can resonate with, and that's important.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:10.139)

Yeah, that is really interesting to look back at 2013 when one, Gawker was still around, and two, people didn't know quite what Alex Jones was yet.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:22.139)

A lot of people, or maybe not many people did, obviously some people of course did, but most people were like, because I remember this one, and I was thinking, is this more like a, this guy's a crazy conspiracy theorist angle?

Unknown Speaker (00:46:37.139)

Is that what they're doing instead of being a Muslim extremist terror attack? It's this guy is actually just like any other weirdo conspiracy theorist that follows Alex Jones.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:49.139)

But now we know obviously that Alex Jones is an inspiration for terrorism.

Unknown Speaker (00:46:55.139)

Yeah, and I don't know how much you can really say it's conscious on Alex's part, but it's certainly unexamined, and that's the part that I think is really particularly dangerous.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:08.139)

And it gets to a certain point where things keep happening, and he keeps refusing to examine, and that leads you to suspect that he knows what he's doing.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:18.139)

Either he's in denial, or he's fine with it. That's the situation.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:22.139)

Yeah, neither is good. So Alex is going to get back to this topic, of course he is, because it's about him, but he also has some other little narratives to pepper in, and one of them is about Eric Holder, the Attorney General of the United States back in 2013.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:38.139)

So that's the new system in America, where they arrest you, you're walking, they cut your larynx out, and then you're guilty, and then they put that out in the news so you can't get a fair trial.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:50.139)

And then everybody chants USA, USA, USA is due process. What the USA is based on is flushed directly down the toilet like the babies at the different abortuaries owned by the Attorney General do.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:03.139)

By the way, Kermit, not the frog, but the abortionist, they've dropped most of the charges. The judge inexplicably is dropping most of the counts against him.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:14.139)

And even the Associated Press, not known for its accuracy or standing up for liberty, had to say really no reason.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:21.139)

Yeah, okay. So first of all, Eric Holder did not own an abortion clinic. This was a right-wing talking point that was going around at this period in 2013, and Alex has been talking it up a little bit.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:33.139)

The story that's told varies depending on how angry the teller is at Holder. I've heard variations of it where Holder owns the clinic, he runs the clinic, and that the clinic he owns is one where atrocities have been committed.

Unknown Speaker (00:48:45.139)

This particular narrative is being trotted out at this point in time because Kermit Gosnell is on trial, and the anti-choice right-wing are trying to craft the narrative where the DOJ is giving him a light sentence, which is naturally explained by Holder owning an abortion clinic.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:00.139)

Sure, that all makes perfect sense, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:03.139)

None of it's true. The reality is that Holder's wife is a co-owner, kind of, of a building where one of the tenants is a reproductive health clinic.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:12.139)

They have no connection to the clinic itself, they're just sort of the owners of the building.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:17.139)

They're landlords.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:18.139)

I say sort of owners because Holder's wife is actually just a trustee in a family trust that holds the property.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:25.139)

She and Eric are legally unable to profit from renting the property to anyone, and the money accrued from the building will be transferred to her nephew and niece, along with the building itself, because the other co-owner is her sister.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:37.139)

They are co-trustees in this family trust.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:40.139)

Okay, cool. I want everybody on the right wing to have their lips sewn shut, because this is bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:45.139)

The building was to be given to these children according to a will drawn up by their father prior to his death in 2004, but they can't take ownership of it legally until they're 18.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:54.139)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:49:55.139)

So they have this family trust, owns this building that houses a reproductive health clinic, they can't profit off of it, it's just because...

Unknown Speaker (00:50:02.139)

They're just hanging on to it like a regent until the king comes of age.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:07.139)

So this is the story, and the stuff is all getting mixed up, because the tenant, one of the doctors who was working at this reproductive clinic, did get in trouble for, I believe, Medicare fraud.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:24.139)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:25.139)

But it's being mixed up with all of these other horror stories surrounding reproductive health at this time.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:31.139)

He kills babies at two years old and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:34.139)

Which links to the Gosnell stuff, which is what's trying to be all muddied up together.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:38.139)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:39.139)

So as to the question of Kermit Gosnell, he's not someone I would catalog as an abortion doctor. He's someone I would say is a murderer.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:46.139)

It's a fair point to say that he was someone who worked in the field of reproductive health, but what he actually did was not appropriate care.

Unknown Speaker (00:50:52.139)

This would be like if there was a dentist killing patients at his dental office, and then we used him to argue that the entire field of dentistry is evil and murderous.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:00.139)

Yeah, that'd be crazy. That'd be like if somebody thought that psychologists were trying to sabotage his entire career, so he built a religion about demonizing him.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:09.139)

That'd be wild.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:10.139)

So Gosnell's clinic had a long track record of citations for various complaints.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:14.139)

None as serious as what he would actually end up being charged with, but things that should have been real red flags.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:20.139)

He'd been sued a number of times, and ultimately in 2010, his clinic was raided by the FBI, working in conjunction with Pennsylvania State Police.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:28.139)

The conditions they found were horrifying. Patients were subjected to completely unsanitary conditions in the clinic, Gosnell was employing unlicensed staff, and his surgical room was described as

Unknown Speaker (00:51:39.139)

quote, resembling a bad gas station bathroom.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:42.139)

That's not good.

Unknown Speaker (00:51:43.139)

In the course of investigation, detectives uncovered multiple cases of Gosnell killing babies after being delivered, and at least one woman whose death he appeared to be responsible for due to negligence.

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Holy shit, this dude's a fucking doctor from Hostel or whatever it is.

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Do you know about this dude?

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No!

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Yeah, he's horrible.

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What the fuck?

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Yeah.

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In January 2011, Gosnell was charged with eight counts of murder, but by the time he went to trial in 2013, a ton of other charges had been added.

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When Alex is saying that some of the charges had been dropped, it's because the court felt like the evidence surrounding three of the counts of murder were not strong enough to pursue.

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The question came down to whether these babies were born alive, and in those three cases, the state could not definitively prove that, whereas they could in the other cases.

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Right, right, right, right.

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They weren't trying to give him a reprieve, nor did it really affect the legal position he was in.

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It's just a situation where we can't really prove this, but we can prove those.

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Right, so we're going to indict you on five counts of murder, not eight, so obviously people are like,

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Why not eight, huh? You're afraid!

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Gosnell very clearly was still eligible for the death penalty, even with those three charges dropped.

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Ultimately, Gosnell made a deal where he agreed not to appeal the court's decision in exchange for not receiving the death penalty.

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He was sentenced to three life terms and will die in prison.

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No one gave him an easy time.

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Alex is just making shit up in order to smear Eric Holder, but he's not even really primarily interested in attacking Holder.

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It's all just reproductive health.

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So Alex has discovered a person in government that I think he feels like he probably has a bond with, because she is out there saying that the Boston bombing was a false flag.

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Okay.

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Which is very interesting.

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And a New Hampshire lawmaker says Boston bombing was a government job, and then it's because of me.

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Now, a lawmaker in New Hampshire, I'm going to try to get her on, the social media ramblings of a woman who read about conspiracy theory on Infowars wouldn't usually be newsworthy, but it's the case.

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The woman is a lawmaker in New Hampshire state legislature who thinks the government is responsible for the Boston bombings.

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The midterm Republican representative, Stella Termblay, I believe you pronounce it, first made her case in a scare quote, saturating Facebook post on Friday, writing to Glenn Beck, she said.

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Just as you said would happen, top down, bottom up, the Boston Marathon was a black ops terrorist attack.

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One suspect killed, the other one, maybe two before they even have a chance to speak.

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Oh, notice they cut out his throat, so that happened.

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Walking out of the boat and then drones are now terrorist attacks by our own government.

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Sad day, but wake up to all of us.

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First, there was a suspect, then there wasn't.

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Infowars broke the story and they knew they had been found out.

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And then the New York magazine demonizes and attacks that.

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And again, they're all over the news, the Tamerlan linked Infowars conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, alleged Boston bomber was Alex Jones' conspiracy fan. On and on and on.

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This is weird.

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This is weird.

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So here we have in 2013 a case, an early case, of an elected official coming down with what I call the Infowars bug.

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Right.

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Stella Termblay was a member of the New Hampshire House of Representatives, but I should tell you that she was not for long after this point.

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That's a surprise.

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She resigned in June 2013, most likely due to a very considerable backlash to some of her comments, which earned her a rebuke vote from her House colleagues.

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Woof.

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The public didn't seem to have too much of a problem with her being a pretty clear sovereign citizen, and I guess everyone just kind of put up with her being a very public idiot.

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According to a story about her in the Huffington Post, six months prior to this, her comments about the Boston bombing,

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Termblay, quote, sent an email to the other 399 state House members with a doctored video she claimed depicted President Barack Obama saying he was not born in the United States.

Unknown Speaker (00:55:54.139)

Okay, okay.

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Also, quote, in February, Termblay told a legislative committee that President Woodrow Wilson agreed with Adolf Hitler, even though Wilson died before Hitler rose to power.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:04.139)

Okay.

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And now, he probably did, though.

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I mean, in all honesty, Woodrow Wilson would have agreed with Hitler, were he around.

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That's a slightly different argument, and you might phrase that slightly differently.

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Fair.

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The story also points out that Termblay's history advisor has publicly claimed that, quote, the U.S. government is under the control of Queen Elizabeth II.

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All right, well, that one's not true.

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I will admit that.

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Her history advisor told her that.

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This is all just good fun.

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A little disagreement across party lines or something.

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However, in the aftermath of the Boston bombing, Stella went too far.

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It probably wouldn't have been too big a deal if she'd just suggested that the event was a false flag or something like that.

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People kind of absorb those things, and she has a history of saying dumb shit, so it would probably just be another example of that.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:53.139)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The problem really seemed to be that she was accusing victims of faking injuries.

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Termblay went on The Pete Santilli Show and argued that if she had had the sort of injuries she saw in those pictures, she'd be screaming.

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Oh, man.

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And thus, these people, they're probably actors.

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This is what led to the real backlash and the calls for her resignation.

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She's a crisis actor conspiracy person, so the possibility of Alex getting her on the show and being like,

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hey, she's talking about Infowars stuff, that doesn't bode well for his path down that road.

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Oh, man. That's so stupid.

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He saw an example of what it was that he...

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He saw an example of the consequences for calling people crisis actors very publicly.

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Well, she hasn't been forced to resign yet.

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Right.

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But the larger picture here is that Alex doesn't know how to deal with his influence.

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On the one hand, he seems proud that this New Hampshire House member is referencing him and her conspiracy ramblings on Facebook.

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While simultaneously, he complains about the media saying that Tamerlan was a fan of Infowars.

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The reality is that they're both into his work.

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Alex was a terrible influence on both and pretty much everybody who falls for his shit.

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So, I don't know.

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It's very weird to see this on the same episode.

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He's really pissed off about people saying that Tamerlan's his fan and then also being like...

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Look at this lady, who's my fan, who's saying the same stuff.

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And worse.

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Yeah. Oh, boy.

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I wonder, too, about how much of this is...

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She wrote this on Facebook to Glenn Beck, and I wonder how much of it has to do with that.

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Do you mean...

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Was she writing something to Glenn Beck that Glenn Beck disagreed with?

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So, she's sticking up for Alex, or Alex is sticking up for her for taking it to Glenn Beck?

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I don't know. I'm not entirely sure.

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But the fact that she wrote to Glenn Beck and Alex is covering it doesn't seem...

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It doesn't seem unrelated, but it probably is a really minor piece of it.

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Right.

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Anybody who's in an elected position who mentions Infowars is probably going to get...

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Yeah, I would say so.

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...some coverage.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So, when I looked into this episode and I started listening to it, I'm like,

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This is my birthday episode. Yay. Alex is talking about how Tamerlan was a fan of his.

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We've got there.

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I thought that that was going to be the real main thing that I found in this episode that was going to be interesting.

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Right.

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And actually, about halfway through, Alex has another narrative that actually I think is far more interesting,

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and it has to do with a story that Alex has found about Tamerlan.

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Ladies and gentlemen, the Russian mainstream media is now leaking why the Russians called for an FBI investigation of Tamerlan.

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Zarnav or Zarnaz or however you pronounce it.

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They are now coming out, ladies and gentlemen.

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Document cam, please.

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This is in the mainline Russian news and been picked up all across Russia.

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Tamerlan recruited via the Georgetown Foundation.

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Jamestown, U.S. nonprofit.

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The board of directors of NGOs previously entered one of the ideologists of U.S. foreign policy, Zbigniew Brzezinski,

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who calls for using terror states up against Russia.

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Was engaged in recruiting residents of North Caucasus to work in the interest of the United States and Georgia.

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And that's why he had an alias that's confirmed.

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That's why the family said it must be a setup.

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Because the family are pretty, you know, some of them are some heavy hitter lawyers and people working for oil companies.

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And this is huge.

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So this is a perfect case of Alex doing the worst job he possibly could as a newscaster.

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Here, he's trying to report on a story about why the Russian government warned the United States about Tamerlan Zarnav,

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but he can't possibly be bothered to be specific about anything.

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I tried to search for the article he's talking about, but it's almost impossible.

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Like, what does he mean by mainline Russian news?

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What is that? How do I look for that source?

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The way Alex delivers his stories is intentionally designed to make it more difficult for his listeners to follow up on anything.

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So it's important, and he has a particularly dubious piece of information.

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It's key for him to be as vague as possible so they end up hitting a ton of dead ends.

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I heard Alex in that clip say, document cam, please.

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So I knew that if I found the video for this episode, I'd at least get a brief shot of the article.

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So I hunted down the video, and what a shock.

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Alex has completely misread this headline.

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The way he reads it is, quote, Tamerlan recruited via the Georgetown Foundation, Jamestown, U.S. nonprofit.

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Then he connected to Zbigniew Brzezinski.

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The actual headline of the article is, quote, Tamerlan Zarnov recruited via the Georgian Foundation.

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The rest of the stuff he's reading is just disconnected bits and pieces from the article he's taking out of context

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because they're words that fit into his propaganda.

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You can see the places where the article is, like, there's a highlighter.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Read exactly these words, do not read to the period of the sentence, read until the end of this highlighted section.

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Gotcha.

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Obviously there's a big difference between Georgetown Foundation and Georgian Foundation.

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What?

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Georgian is a reference to the Eastern European country, whereas Alex's intentionally misreading that is Georgetown

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because that's a university that plays a massive role in his conspiracy worldview.

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Carol Quigley taught at Georgetown, and of course Quigley was on the grand overarching conspiracy.

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In this instance, I cannot see this as anything other than an intentional misdirection.

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If it wasn't, why would he just say that this is a story in the mainstream Russian press instead of specifying his source?

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If he wasn't intentionally lying, why wouldn't he correct himself after saying Georgetown instead of Georgian?

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There's a perception he wants his audience to take in, and that is that the globalists recruited Tamerlan,

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and that perception is basically impossible to create if he reports this story straight.

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In reality, this was a story published in Izvestia, which is not a source Alex should trust.

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From 1917 to 1991, Izvestia was the official paper of record of the Soviet Union,

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so he should probably have some concerns about their editorial positions and process.

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Like what?

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Well, just a few things.

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Russian papers are notorious for objectivity, especially government-controlled ones.

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And he fucking hates the Soviet Union.

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Yeah, I mean, hey.

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In 2005, the paper was purchased by Gazprom, the energy giant that's majority owned by the Russian government,

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though it was sold to the National Media Group in 2008.

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Even so, allegations of the paper being used to disseminate false information put out by the Russian government have lingered.

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I'm not certain how prevalent an issue that is, but I would prefer to err on the side of not discounting the story

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just because it comes from what might be a dubious source.

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I bring most of this up because Alex should absolutely not trust this paper based on who he is.

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They were the mouthpiece of the Soviet Union for the better part of a century,

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and even after the breakup of the Soviet Union, they still employed Stalin's personal political cartoonist Boris Yefimov until his death in 2008.

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See, that's the type of shit that rich, powerful dudes get.

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A personal political cartoonist?

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Sure.

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No, that's some good being a rich person shit right there.

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That's what I want.

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For some context, that cartoonist, his first book, The Forward, was written by Trotsky.

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See, this is what I'm saying. This is the dude right here.

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Yeah.

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I wasn't able to find this actual article, but I did find an article in The Interpreter covering the underlying article.

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Apparently, Izvestia was alleging that they'd received documents from the Georgian Interior Ministry

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claiming that the Caucasian Fund was in league with the Jamestown Foundation,

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and they were recruiting residents to advance U.S. interests in the country of Georgia.

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Basically, attacking Russia from Georgia.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The claim that these foundations were actually doing this has not been proven,

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and on top of that, the added insinuation that Tamerlan attended one of the meetings they held to recruit people

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is based on no information past the fact that Tamerlan was in the region at that time.

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Even RT's eventual coverage of this story says,

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quote, Georgia's Ministry of Internal Affairs said it had no knowledge of whether Sarnov had attended the seminars.

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Quote, we don't have such information. We haven't heard anything of the kind. We don't know.

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Nino Giorbiani, head of the Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs, press service, told RAI Novosti.

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The Russian state media is like Infowars, but sometimes they issue corrections.

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That's not even a correction. That's just coverage of the underlying Izvestia story.

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An issue that needs to be pointed out here is the Russian state would have a very vested interest

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in trying to disrupt Western relations with Georgia at this point in time.

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There was a process in motion for Georgia to join NATO, which would have made it the furthest East country to do so at the time,

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which Russia would naturally see as a threat and an incursion.

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Accusing the West of recruiting people to attack Russia from Georgia,

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one of whom ends up becoming a domestic terrorist in the United States,

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seems like a good method to sow some trouble in the NATO accession plan.

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Yeah, that would do it.

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That's just kind of speculation on my part, and I can't really stand behind that as being what's up here.

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All I can say is that evidence offered is pretty thin,

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and I'm generally pretty skeptical of vague information that comes out of Russia

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about these sorts of regional issues involving states that are leaning towards the West.

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I think that you need to really nail down specifics if you're going to traffic in that.

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But even leaving all of that aside, the story that Alex is telling doesn't make sense.

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This report from the Georgian Interior Ministry, allegedly,

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it's claiming that Tamerlan was recruited in the summer of 2012.

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Alex is saying this is why the Russian government warned the United States about him.

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Well, that was the summer of rage, so I would recruit a lot of people then.

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Unfortunately, Russia warned the United States about Tamerlan in early 2011,

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well before this alleged recruitment meeting discussed in Izvestia.

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Therefore, Alex's narrative cannot be true.

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Based on this piece of information that he's bringing to the table and saying

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this is why the Russian government warned, it just can't be true.

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The timeline doesn't work out.

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That sucks.

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Alex has just found an unsubstantiated report out of the Russian media

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that contains enough buzzwords for him to connect Tamerlan with Georgetown

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and Zbigniew Brzezinski, so he's running with it.

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This is sloppy work, and it ultimately means nothing.

Unknown Speaker (01:07:10.139)

Man, just Georgian, Georgetown, and you just don't do anything about it.

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Either you can't read or you're just a flat-out liar.

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Both of those are really bad.

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Later in the episode, he reads the headline and he does read it correctly,

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but he sort of varies back and forth.

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He alternates a little bit, which kind of leads you to believe that it's just bad reading.

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Or a really brilliant blurring of the lines while still giving yourself some space

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to be like, no, no, no, I said it correctly.

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I just misspoke the other time.

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It's hard to say exactly, but at the same time, the narrative that he's putting forth

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more closely matches him thinking it's Georgetown than Georgian.

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I choose is tough.

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I'm inclined to believe that it's intentional misreading, but I'm not entirely sure.

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So in this next clip, Alex claims that he's spoken to Tamerlan's family,

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and I don't believe this is true.

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I mean, you don't even know.

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They may have had this guy's wife and kids saying we're going to kill him.

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You don't know.

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I know this.

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The aunt, who's a tough-as-nails lawyer in Canada, is a listener.

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We confirmed that.

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I talked to her.

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She said, I'm ready to go public.

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I called her back, and she's crying.

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She goes, they will crush me like a bug if they're listening.

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I can't talk.

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I love my family.

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I'm like, oh, the America, I thought the West was free.

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Oh, it's terrible.

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It's terrible.

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Obviously, it is my summation they called up and said, listen, bitch, we're going to

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kill your kids if you don't shut up.

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You got that straight.

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And by the way, she was on record saying they were threatening her, and I'm sorry to use

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that word, but that's how they talk to you, because I've gotten the phone calls.

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I don't believe this for a couple of reasons, because it's Alex, mostly.

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Yeah, that's a good start.

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The other thing is like, hey, if this is true, you probably just put her in serious danger.

Unknown Speaker (01:09:05.140)

Yeah.

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That's one of the reasons I don't believe that it's true, because I think even Alex

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would recognize I might get this woman killed if I am talking like this on air.

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Yeah.

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And I just don't believe any of this.

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I just don't.

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There's such a weird line that Alex has between what he'll repeat and what he pretends is

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like, that's off the record.

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I must keep that sacred.

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I can't imagine.

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And he'll reveal that Donald Trump Jr. is his source, so yeah.

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Or Cernovich's source.

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Yeah.

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I listen to this, and I just don't believe it.

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The most I will give him is, in my head, here's how this plays out.

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He gives her a call, and she's like, sure, I'll give you an interview.

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And he's like, okay, I'll call back.

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That falls through.

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With more information.

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She does a cursory Google search of Infowars and is like, I am not going to be giving you

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an interview, because you're a fucking lying piece of shit.

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Or even just ball drops.

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Even no decision is made.

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It's like, it never happened.

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Too busy talking to other sources or whatever.

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Definitely not the government calling and threatening her.

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I think that there's also a decent chance that Alex just saw some comments the family

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had made in other media sources and realizes there's no downside to me just making stuff

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up.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

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I think it's entirely possible that it's just whole cloth made up.

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That's possible.

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So, in this next clip, Alex is talking about how the science fiction in the world is...

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All true.

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And it's the globalist plan.

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As we know, he just saw Oblivion, and he's completely blown his mind.

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Really, really fucked him up on that.

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So, that is part of what he's talking about.

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Like, that's all the globalist plan.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:45.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:10:46.140)

But he name drops another movie in this that I'm like, wow, that's in play?

Unknown Speaker (01:10:49.140)

Oh, that's crazy.

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He wrote Moonraker in the 50s.

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That's the plan.

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Ian Fleming.

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Moonraker is the plan.

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Oblivion is the plan.

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Zardoz is the plan.

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It's the only plan.

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Zardoz?

Unknown Speaker (01:11:02.140)

What?

Unknown Speaker (01:11:03.140)

And you better pray to God they don't get this through, because if Cobra, the Snake,

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the Devil, the Black Pyramid gets control, it's all over for you.

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So, that's why it doesn't matter if they kill me.

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It doesn't matter, because my family has no future if we don't beat them.

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Zardoz is the plan.

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I'm not going to be able to get the image of Alex Jones wearing that costume out of

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my head.

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That's the grossest thing I can think of.

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That's disgusting.

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No one photoshopped that.

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So, this comes after a really long stretch of him doing a Cobra impression.

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Cobra Commander?

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From GI Joe, yeah.

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He's yelling about how the globalists are Cobra.

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He's like, ah, the media is going to take this and say that I believe in GI Joe.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:48.140)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:49.140)

No, it's the same.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:50.140)

They're all the same.

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The media is going to take this and say I believe in GI Joe, which is fucking crazy.

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I believe in Zardoz, idiots.

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It's very unhinged, and he's just filling time.

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He knows that it's one of the only decent impressions he does, and so he does it a lot.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:07.140)

So, he's not going to try and pull out of Sean Connery after the Zardoz bomb?

Unknown Speaker (01:12:10.140)

He does not.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:11.140)

Aw, boo.

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So, he's got this story from Izvestia, this story about this alleged recruitment thing

Unknown Speaker (01:12:20.140)

that Tamerlan was in the region at the same time as, so therefore Alex has decided he

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did go to this, and it's interesting because the next time he brings it up on the episode,

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he's completely changed the story, even from the beginning of how he was presenting it.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:37.140)

All right.

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The top story up on Infowars.com is that the CIA had recruited in Georgia four operations,

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the older Tamerlan brother, so that story is red linked.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:56.140)

The older Tamerlan brother.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:57.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:12:58.140)

So, Alex has now changed the story to the CIA recruited him.

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So, we have the Jamestown Foundation and the Georgian Fund, which is in the article, allegedly,

Unknown Speaker (01:13:10.140)

and now Alex has changed that to, well, that's the idea.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:13.140)

Okay, Dan.

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Can I ask you a quick question?

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So, he hasn't established that, but he's already pivoted because he knows he's made it vague

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enough that nobody's going to be able to find this underlying story, and so they're just

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going to take his word on it because he's a fucking expert.

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He knows everything.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:26.140)

So, now I'm supposed to believe that Zbigniew Brzezinski is working with the CIA.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:31.140)

The thing is, you could believe that when he was the Secretary of State, certainly,

Unknown Speaker (01:13:38.140)

but the thing is Zbigniew Brzezinski isn't even really referenced in the article itself.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:44.140)

It's just that the Jamestown Foundation, he used to be on the board of it, formerly.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:49.140)

So, yeah, whatever.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:52.140)

Alex has just created this as a new wrinkle that he's adding on to the story.

Unknown Speaker (01:13:57.140)

He has no reason to report that.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:00.140)

What an asshole.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:01.140)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:02.140)

The story is flimsy enough on its own that now you add this.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:06.140)

It's just, now you're just creating a fiction.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:08.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:09.140)

Who isn't involved with this now?

Unknown Speaker (01:14:10.140)

Everyone.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:11.140)

The CIA is involved.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:12.140)

The FBI is involved.

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College Foundations.

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Zbigniew Brzezinski.

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This goes all the way to the middle, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:19.140)

But look, dude, it's like, obviously, you could have your position, and if you have

Unknown Speaker (01:14:25.140)

your position, and it's different than Alex's, it's because you're dumb.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:29.140)

And that is because Alex is backed up by seasoned experts.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:32.140)

Oh, well, that tracks.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:33.140)

And by the way, it's seasoned people who've run black ops, like Steve Pacinek saying it's

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an inside job.

Unknown Speaker (01:14:41.140)

It's seasoned people, like Joel Skousen, concurrent with my analysis, OK?

Unknown Speaker (01:14:45.140)

You think it's fun to go up against these people?

Unknown Speaker (01:14:47.140)

I mean, even if you don't believe it's an inside job, and there's no history of that,

Unknown Speaker (01:14:50.140)

and you want to say, USA, take my rights, and you're a fool.

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Even if you're a fool, do you know the government goes after people that stand up to them?

Unknown Speaker (01:14:59.140)

Because they're bullies.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:00.140)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:01.140)

So you think I enjoy doing this?

Unknown Speaker (01:15:03.140)

They call me a maniac.

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They call me a madman.

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They call me spooky.

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They call me dangerous.

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They call me a fascist.

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Folks, I'm really just a Texan.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:10.140)

I'm just a Texan.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:11.140)

Those are all qualities that I do tend to associate with Texans.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:16.140)

I do love that, like, they call me spooky.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:19.140)

That's the second time that spooky has come up, right?

Unknown Speaker (01:15:21.140)

Yeah, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:22.140)

It must have been some headline about, it must be some story.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:26.140)

I don't know what it is.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:27.140)

It's some local Austin paper or something.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:29.140)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:30.140)

Alex Jones is a ghost or something.

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Boo.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:34.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:35.140)

So Alex is, you know, he has seasoned experts like Steve Pechenik and Joel Schausen who agree with him.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:40.140)

Joel Schausen, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:41.140)

Seasoned.

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And if you dare disagree, you're disagreeing with them.

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And I will say, I am very willing to disagree with them.

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So it's not changed my perspective.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:49.140)

You know, they are seasoned to taste.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:51.140)

They are not necessarily seasoned well.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:54.140)

So Alex doesn't have either of them on the show on the 24th, but he does have Dan Badandi come on.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:00.140)

Great.

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This is one of the sadder interviews I've ever heard in my life.

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Because we learned some things about what's happening in Dan Badandi's life as a result of what's happened with Infowars.

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Dan Badandi, a hero to many out there, Infowars.com reporter.

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Great job, my friend.

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He's even got family because he's right there by Boston.

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I'm not going to say their names, turning their back on him over this because they can't handle the peer pressure.

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They can't handle the fact, you know, to see their family member having courage.

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They should be toasting him.

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They should be carrying him on their shoulders, but instead they spit on him.

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And here he is, ladies and gentlemen, in a world of cowards, being a man of courage is a revolutionary act.

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And Dan Badandi joins us.

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Dan?

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So he has Badandi on and it comes up a couple times, like his life is falling apart.

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He has family members who don't want to deal with him because of this behavior.

Unknown Speaker (01:16:56.140)

He said that his girlfriend's family doesn't allow him at their house anymore.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:03.140)

That's a good call.

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These are natural consequences of bringing this kind of negative attention into your life.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:12.140)

And you see this and you hear Alex basically be like, they're just cowards.

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This is that same isolation that you see him doing with his callers.

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We saw it with a 14-year-old boy.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:23.140)

Yeah, on the last 2013 episode.

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You see this like, hey, Alex, all this negative stuff is happening because I believe you and I'm taking the appropriate actions based on what you say.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:35.140)

I feel like these are negatives.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:38.140)

No, they're positives.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:40.140)

All those people are weak.

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They just don't know the truth.

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They can't handle it.

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They should be giving you a parade.

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Fucking cowards.

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The only truth is here.

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This is fucking cult shit.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:50.140)

Yeah, that's really terrible because his example is you believe all of this shit and then you make millions of dollars lying to people about it.

Unknown Speaker (01:17:58.140)

That's the path he went.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:00.140)

Yeah, exactly.

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So of course he's not going to say anything other than this is the greatest way to go.

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It's worked for me.

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It's worked perfectly for me.

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I have faced zero consequences.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:08.140)

Yep, only imagined ones.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:10.140)

And consequences like people saying that I'm tied to the bomber, which I'm able to turn into positives.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:17.140)

Of course I'm tied.

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And it's a real bummer because I fucking hate Dan Badonti, but at the same time, even if you have this villain guy, you can still clearly see the manipulation that Alex is doing to him.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:31.140)

And when he comes on Alex's show and talks about these personal consequences that he's having, you can't help but feel a little bit for it.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:41.140)

And at the same time, I think more of my empathy goes to his girlfriend or his family who have to make that difficult decision of like, hey, we have a boundary and you've crossed it.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:52.140)

And the human aspect of this is always very difficult when it comes up.

Unknown Speaker (01:18:59.140)

So I'm not going to play too much Dan Badonti.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:02.140)

Yeah, I can't imagine that his girlfriend's family is super stoked that they have to keep her boyfriend out of their house.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:10.140)

And he's a former pro wrestler.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:12.140)

Yeah, that's a real bummer of just being like, okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:15.140)

It's a dynamic you never really want to have.

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Like you're dating somebody and your family doesn't get along with them.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:21.140)

That's shitty.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:22.140)

And when it's because he's an Infowars reporter who disrupts Boston bombing press conferences, it takes on an elevated level of like, hey.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:31.140)

Yeah, that's not a look who's coming to dinner kind of situation here.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:36.140)

So like I said, we're not going to listen to too much of Badonti, but he does do something that I have to pay attention to and so here we go.

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You have an instinct to not be a slave.

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And it's that instinct, Dan, that has done everything good in the world.

Unknown Speaker (01:19:50.140)

Oh no, Thomas Jefferson.

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It's that instinct that has created civilization is not bending over to bullies.

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Absolutely, and I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

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There it is.

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Like George Washington said.

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George Washington, all right.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:04.140)

So that's a real famous quote.

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It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

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From George Washington.

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It's a real rallying cry that's meant to feel like you should give your life rather than submit to tyranny.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:15.140)

That George Washington 100% said.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:17.140)

It is not a George Washington.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:18.140)

No, he 100% said it.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:19.140)

The best thing that Alex or Badonti could do to make this American in origin is to say that it's an FDR quote.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:25.140)

Since he did say it in a June 19, 1941 speech.

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Quote, we too, born to freedom and believing in freedom are willing to fight to maintain freedom.

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We and all others who believe as deeply as we do would rather die on our feet than live on our knees.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:40.140)

However, FDR was actually making a reference to the source of the original quote,

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which is probably why he said we and all others who believe as deeply as we do.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:49.140)

The original source of this quote is Mexican revolutionary Emiliano Zapata.

Unknown Speaker (01:20:54.140)

Alex does not like Zapata, mostly because he was involved in peasant revolts and carried out direct action towards land reform.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:01.140)

It's such a bizarre phenomenon among these right-wing idiots.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:05.140)

They fetishize and lionize the founding fathers of our country and yet so much they think they know about them is not true.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:11.140)

They imagine what their political positions really were and attribute all sorts of completely false quotes to them.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:17.140)

But the trend that I'm starting to see looks a little more sinister than idiocy.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:21.140)

These people are robbing non-white communities of their history.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:25.140)

Alex has repeatedly tried to pass off a Frederick Douglass quote as being a Thomas Jefferson quote.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:30.140)

And here Dan Badonti is taking a Zapata quote and attributing it to Washington.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:34.140)

They love the words, but they want a white person to be saying them.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:38.140)

And I'm not saying that Alex or Badonti is consciously even doing that.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:42.140)

I think it's entirely possible that they just get all their information from places where the prevailing thought leaders are whitewashing everything.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:49.140)

So people like Alex and Badonti may have no idea they're parroting back a completely incoherent and false version of history that they claim to love so much.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:57.140)

Yeah, it's most likely that one.

Unknown Speaker (01:21:58.140)

Yeah, I mean there's an ecosystem that probably repurposes really great things that are part of non-white communities' history and puts them on people like Thomas Jefferson or George Washington.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:11.140)

And so many of them are quotes about defeating the very tyranny that they themselves represent.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:18.140)

Zapata isn't saying that because he wants whatever it is government Alex Jones thinks is a good idea.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:26.140)

No.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:27.140)

In fact, it is almost always the polar opposite.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:29.140)

So they take the people who are on the right side of history, turn them white, and use it for the wrong side of history.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:35.140)

Right, like the Frederick Douglass thing is him talking specifically about the Confederacy and the institution of slavery.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:40.140)

And Alex attributes that to Thomas Jefferson, though Alex's family members who were alive back then specifically fought against Frederick Douglass.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:50.140)

It's nonsensical, but it makes total sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:22:55.140)

All of the good parts of American history are actually done by white people who oppressed the reason that those happened.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:03.140)

Yeah. So in this next clip, Alex teases a guest that's coming up. And there's actually a little bit of drama about this.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:10.140)

And this cop sent me an email. At the end of the show I'm going to read this. We've got Lindsey Williams giving us an update.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:15.140)

He says breaking new news from his elite friend. So that is coming up. And I know who his source is. It is someone who's attended Bilderberg.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:25.140)

So I don't know if actually Alex even gets to that thing from the alleged cop. I don't know if he does.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:31.140)

If he does, it's very subtly worked in and I didn't notice it.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:35.140)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:36.140)

But Lindsey Williams is coming up. If you'll recall, Lindsey Williams is the guy who claims that he was a chaplain on an oil derrick or something like that.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:44.140)

And through that ended up meeting some elite globalists who he ended up living with for a few years.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:49.140)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:50.140)

And now one of them tells him all this secret information that ends up not being correct.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:53.140)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:54.140)

So he's running that scam.

Unknown Speaker (01:23:55.140)

He's got that Forrest Gump thing going, but he's adding a little chaplain into it.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:00.140)

Yeah. So he's coming up later on the show, which I was like, that's not good. Because Alex's audience is like, I don't know exactly the timeline of it.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:08.140)

But if I understand correctly by this point, they've largely turned against Lindsey Williams because he is so clearly a shill.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:15.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:16.140)

Not for like the government, but he's just trying to, he's running a hustle.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:19.140)

Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:20.140)

Like even Alex's audiences see through it. Like this guy's story makes no sense.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:24.140)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:25.140)

These predictions are shit. He's just trying to sell shit. Like I've seen it on Alex's message boards, like a real anti Lindsey Williams thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:33.140)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:34.140)

So I was like, oh man, he's still coming on. That's nuts.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:36.140)

So he's coming later. Alex goes to calls.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:39.140)

Oh no.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:40.140)

And one of these callers has seen Oblivion.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:47.140)

Okay. All right. Let's fucking, I'm laser focused now. Let's do this.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:51.140)

Alex is still deeply obsessed with Oblivion.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:54.140)

I have not seen Oblivion. So I want to rewrite this movie through what these idiots say about it.

Unknown Speaker (01:24:59.140)

All right. So this guy loved it.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:00.140)

I saw the awesome Oblivion last night and that was an amazing film, I have to say.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:07.140)

I don't like Tom Cruise and it made me like him. And again, it's because did you get all the messages?

Unknown Speaker (01:25:13.140)

It's pro male. It's all wholesome. It's about family and generations. It's about kinship.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:19.140)

It's about love and it's about sacrifice, death. I mean, it's just, and it's about compartmentalization.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:26.140)

I mean, was it heavy? Like I said, it was, it's something you don't see anymore.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:32.140)

It's about clones. It's about water.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:36.140)

So yeah, they just like have this session of like two dudes who really love a movie.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:42.140)

Just really loving a movie. That's great.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:44.140)

And then Alex, of course he has to brag about how his magazine had the bad guy.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:49.140)

Oh yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:50.140)

And I'm only playing this because like you can hear the giddiness and Alex's voice. Listen to this.

Unknown Speaker (01:25:55.140)

What do you think of the cover of the October issue being the bad guy from Oblivion, which they will not let that image out.

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I've discovered they're really shutting it down when it gets out on the web.

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What'd you think of the bad guy in the movie?

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What, the eye at the end?

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Yeah, the big black upside down pyramid with a red eye, yeah.

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The old seeing eye?

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I mean, the bad guy is the Illuminati.

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Yeah, he's so excited.

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That is.

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Again, I have to stress the cover of his magazine was just a Photoshop of Hal from 2001 A Space Odyssey on a pyramid.

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He doesn't get as much credit as he thinks he does here.

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There has to be something that could have been, like there's got to be somewhere along his life where he could have had this very childlike glee at seeing something exciting and fun and meaningful to him.

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And turn that into something other than turning into a fucking monster that harasses people and then only occasionally pulls out this childlike glee.

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Unfortunately, the thing that gave him that glee was, none dare call it conspiracy, his dad's weirdo, JBS, John Birch Society friends.

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So anyway, lest you think that Alex just saw Oblivion once, you'd be wrong.

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I would be wrong. I knew he saw it more than once.

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He went back again.

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Of course he did.

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And saw it a second time.

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I'm going to be honest, we had rush tickets and a bunch of stuff and probably could have got backstage and stuff.

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But I didn't go to rush last night because I went back to see what my wife and she wanted to see it.

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Plus, I ran home and saw the kids, but I went back just to try to see it again when I wasn't tired.

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And it's just the whole thing.

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It's definitely anti Illuminati.

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It is not it is not a revelation of the method externalization of the hierarchy.

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Do you agree with that analysis?

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Yeah, totally, totally, totally, totally, man.

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I would have gone and seen Rush.

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I refuse to believe that he did this.

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This story has to be a lie. This story has to be a lie.

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No, it's possible.

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I'm not a huge Rush guy. I'm not a particularly big fan, but I'm going to fucking Rush.

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Are you shitting me?

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Rush is really great.

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Live, they've got to be incredible.

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Yeah, they're very gifted musicians.

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And I do believe that Alex possibly could have gotten backstage because from what I understand,

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Neil Peart is a bit of a libertarian.

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And he's the fucking best drummer.

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That's amazing.

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He's incredible.

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Yeah.

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And I love 2112.

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Yeah.

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Great, great album.

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He liberates those fucking drums from Boredom.

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That's what he does.

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I don't know.

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I don't know how much I love the.

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Yeah.

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So good.

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So good.

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So Alex has another little bit of a story that he covers, and that is that the AP was

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hacked.

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Except it wasn't really.

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OK.

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So this leads into more talk about movies.

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They're oblivion to everything in our society.

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But I believe they're doing that to get CISPA through the Senate, because, you know, you

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can tell when they do a hack and it's ineffectual and it doesn't really hurt them.

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You know, I mean, there were hacks saying this CIA group is involved kidnapping kids

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and doing snuff films.

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You'd know it's real.

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But if it's a hack, you know.

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Something silly or something that, you know, makes it look like the president's under threat.

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That's them, because he that fits into Olympus is falling.

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That I haven't seen.

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I have no desire to see that film programming, programming, programming, programming, man.

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How does he feel about how the blank has fallen, turned into a franchise somehow?

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I don't know.

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So these dudes are talking about this story super dishonestly.

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There's kind of the perception that the Associated Press itself got hacked when in reality was

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just their Twitter account got hacked, which is much easier to happen.

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And someone who was hacking around ended up posting that the White House, there had been

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explosions and the president was injured.

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So a group called the Syrian Electronic Army took credit for the hack, and it would probably

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be worth noting that they are a pro-Assad organization.

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At this point, 2013, Obama and Assad were not on particularly good terms.

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This was not a globalist false flag, but it's good to know that Olympus has fallen to his

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evil predictive programming.

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Man, I can cross that off my list.

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How many more movies are we going to drop on this?

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So many.

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So many movies.

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So many.

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This next clip, Jordan, I think is fascinating because a caller calls in, and this guy wants

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to talk about the same sort of theories that New Hampshire House Representative Stella

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Tremblay has about the victims of the Boston bombing being actors.

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Right.

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And at this point, Alex has had Steve Pechenik on the show to commit open treason, and Steve

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Pechenik is very much a crisis actor guy.

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Alex has made waffly overtures towards the idea that there were definitely actors in

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the Aurora shooting, sort of dipped his toe a little bit into Sandy Hook, saying that

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some of these people who are survivors and family members are acting weird, like actors.

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So I heard this caller, and I'm like, I wonder what Alex is going to do, and his response

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really shocked me.

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I'd like to address a popular photo circulating an impossible use of actors involved at the

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actual bomb site.

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The one I'm talking about in particular, the media's really showing this a lot, of the

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guy with the supposedly just lost two of his legs being helped by a guy in a cowboy hat,

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and he's on a wheelchair.

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There's actually a series of photos on this guy, but if someone has done sort of like

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a closer, kind of looked at the close up shots of the bomb site itself, and it shows a hooded

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man in sunglasses, what looks like he's like dropping the guy on the ground, and then like

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all these sort of other suspicious looking photos where, I mean, there's like, there's

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no actual blood squirting from this guy's like, you know, two legs.

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Well, that's because they would have put a tourniquet on it.

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Let me just stop something here.

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They clearly had actors on 9-11 go and put out the official story over and over and over

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again that it was jet fuel that did it, pancaking, and then it fell into its own footprint.

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They clearly announced building seven had fallen before it fell.

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They false started on that, but the event was real.

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Sandy Hook Aurora was real.

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They clearly have had, we proved this and I didn't even go with it because I said the

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media will attack us.

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We found two of the people are actually pretty successful actors and admit their actors and

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even use their real names, but I thought, well, maybe real actors could just actually

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be in the movie theater, but the guy goes, here's my ticket.

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I was really there.

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And then he tells the official story and the other guy does it.

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So it looks like, yes, and the government loves you brought to you by Doritos brought

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to you by Pepsi.

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I mean, it's like product placement, propaganda placement.

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So that goes on.

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Brought to you by the movie Oblivion.

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Then when you say no one was killed at Sandy Hook, no, no, no, they like killing kids.

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That was a holiday for the folks that did it.

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And you had people in the same camo pants and black shirt caught by local police who

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they were then ordered to release and they said, oh, that's a conspiracy theory, even

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though the video and the arrest is actually on record.

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So yeah, there's the signs of them involved, but they're going to kill real people.

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They enjoy that.

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I mean, it's not just like they don't care.

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They're in this job.

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The favorite thing is to kill little kids.

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So that's my bottom line there.

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Thank you, Derek.

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I mean, could they have actors with fake legs blown off?

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I've seen people with a leg chopped off before and it's turning it got around it and they

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were in shock and turned white and just laid back.

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I mean, you can have your legs blown off and if they're not sliced off clean, they'll stop

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bleeding on their own sometimes.

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But I don't want to get into it with people, whatever it's just, they want, the media wants

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to go with that.

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They don't want to look at Cameron now coming out, was in the CIA and had aliases.

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That's, that's mainstream news confirmed.

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No, it's not pick a fucking lane, man.

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So this is super interesting to me because if you really look at what he's doing, he's

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trying to have it both ways.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Because he's trying to shut down this talk of actors, but at the same time saying that

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these people who come out and talk to the media are actors trying to give you the official

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story on it.

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So what he's doing, particularly about the Aurora shooting, is insisting that one of

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these people who claims to have been in the theater and survived the shooting is an actor

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who the globalists have put there to put out the official story that is invalidating and

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taking away this guy's agency and accusing him of being in on a false flag attack that

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killed a bunch of people.

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So it is the same behavior.

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The only line he's drawing really is where and when the actors get put into, into action

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somewhat.

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But I think the more important distinction is he's pushing back on the idea that people

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are presenting that no one died.

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That's the only thing that he seems to really have a relevant difference with, with the

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people who are presenting the crisis actor narrative.

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It's a matter of scale really is Alex is saying that some of these people who have survived

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these things are actors who are paid by the globalists to put out the propaganda, right?

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These other people are saying all of them are actors.

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That's it.

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That's the difference.

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Okay.

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So I kind of got what he, what he was saying is that the actors who were there are hired,

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right?

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What?

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Say more what you mean.

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So if I understand his idea, his conception of their plan, Alex's, yes, they are orchestrating

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this mass shooting.

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They have hired a couple of actors, put them in there or hired them after the shooting.

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Which way do you think it goes?

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My sense of it is after or yeah, I don't know.

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He's not really clear.

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See that's, that's kind of where I'm, I'm confused as to like, because if they were

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there and it is a real shooting, that seems too risky.

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It seems like you wouldn't be able to make sure that the person isn't hit by a stray

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bullet like in the theater or something.

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Yeah.

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I don't, yeah.

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I would have to say that it's someone who is paid after or they would have to have so

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much awareness of it to know where to be in the building that it would, I don't, yeah,

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I don't know.

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It's very muddy.

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It's unclear.

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I don't know.

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That is, that's an interesting question.

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I think he's saying after.

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If the entire thing is orchestrated by the globalists as a, um, I guess as a, as a, as

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a mass shooting, then the globalists hire actors in order to tell the media that the,

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what they think happened, didn't really happen.

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And what the globalists say happened is what happened.

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Yes, I think, yeah.

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To give, give the official globalist narrative.

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But I do think that it'd have to be there in order for there to be the credibility of

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it.

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Right?

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Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

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Yeah.

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Cause if pressed on it to prove that you were there, right.

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I mean, I guess Alex is saying that this guy produces a ticket stub and everyone's supposed

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to believe that that could be fake.

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Yeah.

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You could fake that easily.

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So in that case, I think he's trying to imply that that person wasn't actually there.

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Right.

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I don't know.

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And if you want to give the official story, then you have, you have fucking cops, man.

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You don't need to hire actors.

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You've got cops to say what happened.

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It's really bizarre.

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I don't know.

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But I, I think that, I think that the most important thing, cause I don't think we're

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ever going to get to the bottom of that cause Alex is too.

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I don't think this makes any, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think the most important thing is Alex is already there in terms of saying that this

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is all like people are actors, but he's just not committed to the larger picture of everyone

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being actors or it being widespread that there's actors.

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He's already definitely saying that it's worthwhile to suspect some of the people being actors.

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So I almost feel like our investigation is, I mean, it's just, I don't know if it's complete,

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but it's, it's already happened.

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There's just a matter of him getting to the point where he is full.

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The narrative is full.

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Right.

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It's already started.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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No.

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I mean, one of the people who say no one died at Sandy hook is that he thinks some people

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died at Sandy hook and that's it.

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Otherwise there are crisis actors because they have to be hired in order to give the,

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in order to give the statement.

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The whole thing is a false flag and it's just, it's just, he thinks that they like killing

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people and other people are like, they didn't, they wouldn't kill anybody.

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And if they like, if Alex is saying that this guy who survived the Aurora shooting is lying

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in order to put forth the globalist narrative, it's not a far leap from that to the Sandy

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hook families also are doing the same thing.

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Of course they have to.

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So it, because the behavior is the same there in the media, giving the globalist talking

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points about this tragedy.

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And so was the guy who survived the Aurora shooting.

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Right.

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It's, it's the same accusation.

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It's just a matter of putting it where it's inevitably going to be.

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Yeah.

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And furthermore, it means that they, the, the globalists didn't just like engineer a

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mass shooting, but they engineered exactly how it would go down and then hired people

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to say, or yeah, something like that.

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Something.

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Yeah.

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So Alex gets back to the Tamerlan Russian story and I think this is really important.

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Some big breaking news that is just epic.

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The big brother on record documents released, um, in Georgia training under a CIA program,

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which we already knew.

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It's just, it's like never ending.

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That clip I think is so crucial since it perfectly illustrates the way Alex jumps to conclusions.

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The actual news is a possibly unreliable Russian media outlet is claimed that they have documents

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from a Georgian interior ministry that shows that a Georgian foundation and the Jamestown

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foundation were recruiting people to metal with Russia.

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They don't say anything about the CIA and they don't prove or even specifically assert

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that Tamerlan was definitely at one of these meetings.

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The Russian media outlet did not release these documents and for all we know, they may or

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may not even exist, but you hear how Alex reports the story.

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He says that Tamerlan quote on record documents released in Georgia training under a CIA program.

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None of that even relates to the source he's working from.

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That's Alex making things up and it's so important to understand the little things and why he

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does what he does.

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He's talking like this to make his conclusions, which are just his imagination, sound definitive

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and authoritative.

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It's on record, so it's definitely true.

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The documents are released, which creates the perception that Alex has seen these documents,

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thus the certainty of his reporting.

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None of this is proven, but Alex intentionally does his show in such a way as to make his

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audience think that he's definitively proven all of these points.

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It's something he does literally all the time.

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It's how you take baseless conjecture and present it as hard researched fact.

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It's how you act like a dumb conspiracy theorist and pass yourself off as an expert.

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It's as easy as manufacturing evidence and misleading your audience about it.

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That's all he's doing here.

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It's particularly distasteful.

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The documents have been released.

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Present them.

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Produce those documents.

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Okay, well, I put them in my safe because they're way too important, so I will just

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go get them, jump up, leg spin.

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We see that narrative transition.

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We see it start with this Russian Izvestia story and Alex has now changed it to the Tamerlan

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on record documents released using a CIA program in Georgia.

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In the same way, Alex takes the story of Tamerlan being a fan of InfoWars and changes that story

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as well.

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We see that in this next clip.

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The foggy guy overseas that says Tamerlan and his brother, the two brothers, were Alex

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Jones listeners and it's all because of Alex Jones, the shadowy influence.

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They're now admitting no one can find him and there's no proof.

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Is Misha at Laneley, Virginia?

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Is that where Misha is?

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As soon as the suspects in the marathon bombing had been neutralized as an immediate threat,

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the attention primarily turned to questions of why did they do what they did.

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In interviews with Johar, it became clear that Tamerlan had some religious extremism

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to him, so investigators wanted to discern where that had come from.

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Tamerlan's father, Ruslan, told CNN of a man named Misha, who is said to have been Tamerlan's

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teacher, who had brainwashed him into an extreme version of Islam.

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Christian Carroll, a writer for the New York Review of Books, tracked Misha down and reported

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on their conversation.

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Misha's real name was Mikhail Alakhdurov and he claimed that though he knew Tamerlan, if

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he'd actually been his teacher as it was being alleged, he would have stopped him from carrying

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out the bombing and absolutely did not support his actions.

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Misha agreed to cooperate with the FBI and officials came out and announced that they

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could find no link between him and the bombing.

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In the end, Misha was a bit of a red herring, though the attention on him kind of makes

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sense given the media tone and all the confusion surrounding this.

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Tamerlan's father had indicated that Misha was responsible for radicalizing his son,

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but he only knew him by this pseudonym and that's just red meat for the media.

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A shadowy, mysterious figure is perfect for creating intrigue, so I don't know how they

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could have resisted reporting on this a ton.

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Alex is suggesting that Misha is in Langley because that's shorthand for the CIA.

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He's trying to pretend that Misha is a CIA operative, which is why Misha would say that

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the Zarnov brothers were fans of Infowars.

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Wait, is Langley CIA or FBI?

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CIA.

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Okay.

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There's no evidence that Misha was CIA.

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A few days after this point we're at, he was found living in an apartment in West Warwick,

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Rhode Island with his elderly parents.

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Alex has created the narrative that Tamerlan was working with the CIA, thanks to this shoddy

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story from his Vestia, so now anyone associated with him must also be a CIA.

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This is bad work.

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But the larger structural problem with this narrative is that Misha wasn't the one who

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said Tamerlan was into Infowars.

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That information came from Alnizra Khoshigov, who was Tamerlan's sister's ex-husband.

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That bit of information about Tamerlan's media diet is completely separate from the thread

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about his possible connection with Misha, but Alex wants to muddy the water.

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And the reason he wants to do that is because at this point, on the 24th, the ex-brother-in-law

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is a known quantity.

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He's someone that definitely exists in a tangible way, but Misha does not.

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As of April 24th, Misha only really exists as someone who's been talked about, but hasn't

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been found, so Alex can make up anything he wants about them.

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This is a mini version of his larger content about the bombings.

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Alex thrives on manufacturing certainty in places where reality reflects vagueness.

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Because Misha is an unknown quantity that's being reported as a mysterious figure by the

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media, it's in Alex's best interest to attach the idea that Tamerlan was into Infowars to

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him.

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Because of the uncertainty surrounding Misha, Alex can claim with no evidence that he's

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CIA, and that means that the claim that Tamerlan liked Infowars is probably coming from the

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CIA because they were behind the bombings, which is all meant to demonize the Patriots

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after all.

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All right, so they have to do it at a one-step-removed kind of situation in Alex's mind, yeah.

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Alex's content works backwards most of the time.

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There's a conclusion that he needs to arrive at, and he molds reality to support that conclusion.

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In the case of his entire coverage of the bombing, the conclusion that must be reached

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is that this was a false flag that was meant to be blamed on Patriots and gun owners.

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There's no evidence that this is the case, and no one seems to be blaming right-wingers

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at all, but Alex needs something to justify his narratives, and this'll do just fine.

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Instead of accepting the very likely reality that someone who is deeply interested in the

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protocols of the Elders of Zion would also find his broadcast appealing, mostly because

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they're almost identical in theme, Alex has to deflect.

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It cannot be possible that this guy was a fan, so it must be the case that the claim

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that he's a fan is coming from the globalists, who see this as their best chance to blame

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the Patriots for the bombing in some way after all.

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I kind of understand why he would do this, considering that the alternative is publicly

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owning up to the fact that his show appeals to terrorists.

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So you gotta do what you gotta do.

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Usually admitting that you are running a show that the main demographic is people who want

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to commit violence against innocents, usually that's not the way you go about advertising.

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It seems strange.

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This is good on his part, it's sloppy and terrible, and the motivation is terrible,

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but I can see why he would do this, and I hesitate to call it smart, but it's wise.

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What goal he's trying to reach, he's doing exactly what he needs to do in order to do

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that.

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I would call it cunning.

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Smart has got too much of a connotation of value.

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So Alex has now decided that Misha is probably behind the bombing.

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Sure.

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Yeah, who is Misha?

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And that's Tamerlan's friend, had strong religious beliefs.

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That's who did it, and they're on there admitting they can't find Misha.

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Maybe Misha is the same guy who was involved in having the drill.

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Maybe Misha's behind everything.

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So this is really getting hard to deal with at this point.

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I can imagine.

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You just made that up!

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Yeah.

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You can't have a hard time dealing with something that you literally just made up two seconds

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ago.

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I think what he's saying is hard to deal with is, he's got his narrative, and there's just

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too much information coming out that he has to incorporate.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's true.

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And it becomes exhausting when you're like, well, okay, now we got this radicalizing figure

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that his father is talking about.

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How does this fit into my conspiracy?

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Well, okay, he's CIA.

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Maybe he did the bombing?

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Maybe he did the drill.

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It's almost like he's a graphic designer, and every time he sends it to the guy, he's

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like, you know what?

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I really think that's close, but maybe change this a little bit, and over and over and over

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again, Alex is dealing with reality, and he's like, shit, now they're asking me to put Misha

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in here?

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How am I supposed to fit another character in here?

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Totally.

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I don't know.

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Maybe he's at school.

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That's kind of what I hear too, just almost a frustration with how am I supposed to fucking

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work with this?

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's like, you did this to yourself.

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You could have just waited for information.

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I really hate this novel that I'm being forced to write for money.

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So Tremblay isn't the only government official that is saying things that Alex Jones is pretty

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into.

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Yeah.

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Also, we have some commentary by the one and only Saxby Chambliss.

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Okay.

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That Alex is misrepresenting.

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Chambliss, a law enforcement agency may have had info about bombing, Boston bombing in

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advance.

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Georgia Senator Saxby Chambliss told Channel 2 Action News last night that the law enforcement

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agency may have had information in advance of the Boston bombings that wasn't properly

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shared.

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OG thinks so, and now it's come out in the Russian news and mainline news, Boston bombers

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roll the CIA and Chechen terror.

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So Alex is completely twisting the comments that Saxby Chambliss made about the law enforcement

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agency having advanced warning about the bombing.

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This is specifically about the warnings that the Russian government gave about Tamerlan

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back in 2011, and how that information didn't get shared to all the places that it might

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have been helpful for it to get to.

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The way Alex reads this story throughout the show, it's meant to imply that the law enforcement

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agency in question had specific foreknowledge about the bombing and didn't do anything to

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stop it, which is absolutely not what Chambliss was alleging, nor is there any evidence of

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this conclusion that's been produced.

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Wait, it's Chambliss the Senator from Georgia?

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Yeah.

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Saxby Chambliss.

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That's fun coincidence there, that the Senator from Georgia is talking about conspiracy theory

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of the guy from Georgia.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It is interesting.

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I didn't even put two and two together.

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Yeah, that's fun.

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That's a fun little coincidence, Dan.

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I'm no Saxby Chambliss defender, except for how fun his name is to say.

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It is great to say.

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But in this case, his point is a valid one.

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There was a failure of information sharing that possibly could have contributed to Tamerlan

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falling off relevant radars.

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It's unclear how much of a contribution that had in terms of allowing the bombing to happen,

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but it's definitely a productive avenue for conversation after the bombing.

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It's just unfortunate that media outlets decided to present this information with headlines

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like, quote, Chambliss law enforcement agency might have had info about Boston bombing in

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advance.

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Good work, media.

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That kind of clunky headline allows a bad actor like Alex to create the kind of optics

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he needs, which in no way reflects reality.

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So that's kind of what we're dealing with there.

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There is, I think it's just because there's so many ways to divide up his name.

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You know, like he could be Sax B Chambliss, he could be Sax B Chambliss, he could be Sax

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B Chambliss, he could be Sax B Chambliss.

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It's S-A-X-B-Y first name, Saxby Chambliss, or Sax B period.

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During the 2008 election, me and my buddy Swearingen, Matt Swearingen, we were hanging

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out.

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I don't know if we lived together at the time.

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We did end up being roommates.

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I think it was before we lived together, but we were watching the election results come

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in and we had a bottle, I think it was a bottle of Goldschlager.

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We were drinking every time a state went Democrat and went for Obama.

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Just because earlier in the night, Sax B Chambliss had won a race.

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We had no idea who he was, but the name was so great that every time we drank, we cheered

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Sax B Chambliss.

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That's great.

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That's fantastic.

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Sax B Chambliss.

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I enjoy that immensely.

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Oh my God.

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What's this?

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Wait for Obama with Sax B Chambliss.

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Always have a pretty positive weird association with him, even though I think he's a pretty

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bad dude.

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He's probably a shit bag, yeah.

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So Alex gets into this next clip here, he gets into how they were going to blame the

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Patriots and the right wing gun owners, but that didn't work out.

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So now this attempt to make it Alex's fault is them trying to save victory from the jaws

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of defeat.

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Gotcha.

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They were going to blame the Tea Party.

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It didn't work.

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And so now they fell back to Muslims, so they probably actually had plant the bombs.

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They were CIA, definitely the older brother.

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Let's confirm now, all of the math, he was one of their minions, not an agent or quote

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officer as they call them.

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But they tried to then say, well, a foggy guy, here's his first name.

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He says Alex Jones made him do it.

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So no one is saying that Tamerlan liking info has made him do the Boston bombing except

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for Alex.

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Yeah.

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This is a straw man that Alex is deploying to attack because he knows better than to

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engage with the actual reality.

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For Alex to discuss this story as it's actually being reported, he'd have to bring up that

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Tamerlan was into the protocols of the elders of Zion and that would bring up some difficult

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questions because the protocols are so thematically connected to his worldview.

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Discussing this issue in reality would force him to address the fact that the evil globalists

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he yells about are real, similar in characterization and in goals with the elders of Zion, which

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is a really tough line for Alex.

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Should he say that the protocols are real?

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That would take his show into a pretty overtly antisemitic place, and I'm not sure he

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thinks that's good for business.

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Maybe he could say that they're real, but it's not about the Jews.

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That seems like a little bit too hard for him to pull off, and it's embarrassing when

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other people have tried that in the past, and trying to thread that needle would probably

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blow up in his face, plus he'd probably be accused of ripping off Bill Cooper.

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So what option would be left?

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Saying the protocols are fake?

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If that's the case, then this historical forgery, it's a complete hoax meant to demonize the

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Jews, and it has staggering overlap with his rhetoric and worldview.

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What does that mean for the Infowar?

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These are not questions that Alex is equipped to deal with, so instead of recognizing that

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Tamerlan had an interest in the protocols and in Infowars, probably for similar reasons,

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he just pretends that everyone is saying that Infowars made Tamerlan into a terrorist.

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Just like that, he's off the hook for the hard questions, and he's created a completely

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false accusation that he can get indignant about people making.

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Plus, it validates the narratives about the globalists finding a way to blame the Patriots

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for the bombing.

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It's exactly what he needs to do, but ultimately it's painfully transparent.

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Yeah, and it's also in a certain way flattering for him.

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He's framing it in such a way as, see, they think I have that power to turn anyone into

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a terrorist, and that's crazy.

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Of course I don't.

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I could never do that, but maybe I could.

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That kind of thing.

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Yeah, it's pretty wild.

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So Alex now is just like, I wish this wasn't real.

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I wish this was a real attack, and it wasn't a false flag.

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And this is not a Tetris effect here, where you play Tetris long enough that it's called

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the Tetris syndrome.

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Everything looks like Tetris.

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It's not I'm a hammer, everything's a nail.

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Believe me, I don't want this to be an inside job.

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It just happens to be that, and now I'm being connected to it.

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I told you they were going to try to blame us for it.

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It's so funny.

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Oh, it's not funny though.

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He's so giddy.

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He's so giddy.

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That's the real face there.

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It's so excited to be linked to this.

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So Alex has a story that one of his writers has put out, trying to deflect from the idea

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that Tamerlan was a fan of his.

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And this is just absurd.

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By the way, Steve Washington did a report, it's actually a serious report, alert, Spider-Man

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linked with Boston bombers, Michael Jackson, Game of Thrones, Finding Nemo could also be

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involved, because that was on their Facebook and other social media accounts.

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And since some foggy guy said they listened to me, it's my fault.

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So by extension, it's Spider-Man.

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So here, Alex has one of his employees write an article desperately trying to create another

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straw man to obfuscate the connection between his work and Tamerlan.

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This time, the goal is to say an interest in Infowars is the same thing as an interest

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in Spider-Man.

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Therefore, if you're saying that it's notable that Tamerlan was into Infowars, it's equally

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relevant that he was into Spider-Man.

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Which I think is wrong, because we all know that Finding Nemo is the movie that has the

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most anti-government messages.

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Sure.

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This is how children operate.

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The issue with Tamerlan taking an interest in Infowars is that it speaks to the worldview

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that Tamerlan was cultivating.

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According to that report in the Associated Press, his family members said that he'd changed

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a bit in the years before the bombing, becoming convinced of a broad range of conspiracy theories.

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He became a 9-11 truther and was dabbling in these ideas that Jews secretly run the

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world.

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He began to have a very anti-US government stance, to the point where people around him

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took notice.

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While it isn't necessarily fair to say that Infowars is responsible for radicalizing Tamerlan,

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it's equally unfair to pretend that it's not part of the equation, according to Tamerlan's

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ex-brother-in-law, not Misha, the way Alex is trying to present.

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The fascination with conspiracy theories, particularly anti-government ones, runs a

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very parallel track with getting into Infowars.

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Believing that Jews run the world and becoming interested in the protocols of elders of Zion

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is absolutely compatible with the themes disseminated by Infowars, even if Alex doesn't say the

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Jews are secretly behind everything.

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The themes are the same.

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The anti-Semitic tropes are used to characterize the globalists to an extent that most people

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who are getting into anti-Semitism could be forgiven if they heard what Alex said as code.

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This is why an interest in Infowars is relevant, and an interest in Spider-Man is not.

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And to be clear, I'm not saying that Infowars or Alex radicalized Tamerlan.

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I don't have anywhere near the amount of evidence I would need to make that kind of claim.

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I am saying that if Alex were a sincere actor in the world, he would respond to things like

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this differently.

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He wouldn't get defensive and create multiple defense narratives about why it means nothing

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that Tamerlan liked Infowars, and he probably didn't, because that's just coming from Misha,

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who's probably CIA.

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He would reflect on what he's doing and ask hard questions, particularly, what is it about

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what I do that makes it attractive to people who subscribe to ideologies I profess not

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to support?

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What unexamined parts of my work are compatible with toxic and abhorrent beliefs like those

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expressed by the protocols, and what can I do better to make sure my message that I'm

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sending isn't misunderstood as support of those ideologies?

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Alex can't reflect, because to reflect is to introduce the possibility he's wrong about

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something.

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If he's wrong about something, that introduces the possibility he's wrong about everything.

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It's so important for him to protect those sorts of things, because they're on the edges

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where he's most vulnerable.

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He has to protect his infallibility, which drives him to do absurd, childish nonsense

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like this, like making his writers put out articles about how an interest in Spider-Man

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is equivalent to an interest in an extremist right-wing propaganda outlet.

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It's just bullshit.

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It's very sad, but it's so transparent.

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It's not the... The thing about that is that it's not like Infowars makes him hate the

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government or whatever it is like that.

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I'm extremely anti-US government.

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The pathways that you take are evidence of Infowars' influence, not the initial starting

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point.

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You go to Infowars because you're already anti-US government.

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You have some of those inklings that leads you to find it.

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The way I would put it is it doesn't lead you anywhere good.

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It's going to take whatever you have and metastasize it to an extent.

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It's not obviously 100% effective.

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It's not something that happens to everyone, but if they're on that path, Infowars will

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make it worse.

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It'll convince them of things that aren't true.

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They'll create narratives in their head that are based on Alex's paranoid delusional fantasies.

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And movies.

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A lot of movies and fantasies, delusions about those movies being real.

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It all makes total sense.

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The way Alex is doing this makes total sense too because dealing with these things in a

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more realistic way is very, very threatening to the way he presents his show and his business.

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Obviously the most threatening thing to him is people treating him realistically.

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It's not a threat for them to attack him in the ways that, let's say, the virulently anti-Semitic

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people do and they say that he works for Israel and he's a shill for the Jews.

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That's not really-

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Keep doing it.

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Yeah, I love that shit.

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Tell me I'm a shill for the Jews.

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That's not a threat to him.

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Not at all.

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If you're talking to him and saying, hey, you caused this bombing, that's not even really

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that threatening to him.

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Really?

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I caused a bombing?

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I'm a radio show host.

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Did Spider-Man cause a bombing?

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A nuanced understanding of the thematic connections between him and the ideologies that do underlie

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people who end up committing extremist acts is very threatening to him.

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Finding out that he operates under the same propaganda tactics that ISIS, for example,

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uses.

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We have one last clip here.

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You might remember that Alex said that Lindsey Williams was going to be on.

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Interestingly, Alex's interview with Lindsey Williams has been cut out of the episode as

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it appears on his RSS feed.

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Wait, what?

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Yeah.

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I thought that was really bizarre and I don't think I've ever run into that in the past.

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I've listened to tons and tons of these episodes.

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I've never heard an instance where Alex says a guest is coming up, the guest never shows

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up and he doesn't say like, oh, we had a scheduling issue or we can't get ahold of him.

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Lindsey just never shows up on the episode.

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I went and found the full version of this episode and I listened to the Lindsey Williams

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interview.

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It seems pretty par for the course for him, actually, but it's also pretty embarrassing.

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Williams is just doing his normal shtick of pretending to have this elite insider information

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that he uses to issue dire warnings about the coming financial collapse.

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All of his predictions that he makes are stupid and they're very clearly, his appearance is

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very clearly explicitly about trying to sell his DVDs.

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I suspect, however, in this case, Lindsey Williams went too far.

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Alex is fine with Lindsey selling his DVDs as a byproduct of him coming on the show to

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give Alex quote unquote inside information from this quote unquote elite source of his

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that is of course imaginary, but Alex can't accept the inverse.

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He can't allow the appearance to be that Lindsey is primarily there to sell DVDs and that he's

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doing that by pretending to have this source and I think Lindsey crossed the line.

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Here's how that interview ends.

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I think it speaks volumes and why it got cut out of the episode that got released.

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Also, I should say that what we listen to here is the third time in like 15 minutes

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that Lindsey launched into a sales pitch.

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Some line, they are trying to impoverish the world and that's the stated plans of the globalist.

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It's the stated plans to get our pension funds and bank accounts.

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What do you got on the war front from your associate?

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You're saying a number of months.

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How long till they, cause I know Congress is talking about lovingly taking over retirement

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accounts to safeguard them, but also tax them.

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This is after tax money.

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I mean, why not?

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It's for the earth, Lindsey.

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Please go to lindseywilliams.net, not.com,.net, N-E-T.

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Lindsey is spelled L-I-N-D-S-E-Y.

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Please go there to lindseywilliams.net.

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I have produced this week a DVD telling everything that my elite friend told me is called News

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Signs that the elite have just given me.

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It just came out Monday.

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That's right.

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We're only down to Wednesday today.

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Lindseywilliams.net, our goal, if you will, to our total free number, and it's 888-799-6111,

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American operators, by the way, 888-799-1-1-1, and Alex, you'll appreciate this especially.

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We dropped the price of our new DVD series 70% compared to what we charged for our previous

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one.

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To get it out to people.

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All right, Lindsey, I'm out of time.

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Thank you, brother.

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All right, out of time.

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I appreciate it.

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And Lindsey's a great guy.

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He does have that source.

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I'm not paid to promote this stuff when he comes on.

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I mean, I like Lindsey, I like the stuff, but it starts, you know, I mean, he does have

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important information, but as for, you know, cancer cures and stuff like that, I'm just

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not part of it.

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That's all I can say right there.

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You know, I occasionally infomercial with the longevity stuff because I really believe

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it and have tested it, know it, and Clemson's done studies on it, it really is powerful.

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And my sponsors are great.

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If you hear me endorse something, that's my sponsor, but I appreciate Lindsey Williams

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coming on with us.

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We're going to go to break now.

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Oh, that's fucked up.

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Wow.

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Because he says there at the end that like I infomercial for young jeopardy sometimes

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because I believe in that stuff, which seems to imply that he doesn't believe in Lindsey's

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stuff.

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Um, no, he does not know that he's, of course that's what gets cut out.

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Yeah.

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That's so obvious.

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We've gone through so many of these old episodes where you're like, why the fuck did you leave

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that in?

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Yeah.

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You could have just cut that out.

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But what gets cut out a fucking sales pitch?

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Well, the time when a guest of his made it way too overt that he's there teasing fake

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inside information in order to sell his DVDs.

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It makes it the grift way too obvious.

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Yeah, man.

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So you don't want that to live on in terms of being really easily accessible.

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And actually I lied or I misspoke.

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There's one more clip and it's how Alex ends the episode and he's teasing the night.

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Fuck Lindsey Williams.

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Kind of.

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I think he's mocking Lindsey Williams a little bit as he teases the nightly news, but the

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nightly news is back tonight, seven o'clock central standard time.

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I think it'll be live tonight.

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We had a bunch of special reports that are going to premiere.

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They've been working on for days, seven o'clock central.

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If you're not a prison planet.tv member, it will not cure your cancer.

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Uh, but, uh, it will, that's a joke folks, a little inside joke.

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Uh, but it will, uh, help cure the tyranny.

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Eleven memberships for five 95 one membership.

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Seven people can simultaneously log in with it.

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So when Alex says like it won't cure cancer, that's referencing back to just like a little

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bit earlier when he was saying about Lindsey, I'm not into cancer.

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The cancer cures.

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And I don't think that that's specifically about Lindsey Williams selling a cancer cure.

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It's just more metaphorical that he's offering this miracle thing that isn't real.

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So I think I, I don't know this to be sure.

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Wait, does Lindsey Williams sell cancer cures?

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I don't think so.

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I think it's just DVDs about the globalists and how he knows this elite mystery source

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that tells him bad infer information.

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I don't know this to be sure.

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Uh, but I tried to Google like Lindsey Williams appearances on Alex's show and I think this

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is the last time he's on.

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I'm not positive about that, but all of the other ones were from like 2009, 2010.

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No shit.

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Yeah.

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So I think this might be the end of their relationship.

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Fucked it up.

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Huh?

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Oh man.

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You know, you fly too close to the sun and like Icarus, your DVDs melt.

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Yeah, you have to at least answer his question first, then you can launch into the sales

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pitch.

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If he asks you a direct question and instead you launch into the sales pitch, you get cut

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out of the episode.

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And Alex absolutely was not out of time when he was telling Lindsey he was out of time.

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He goes into overdrive.

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He goes into overdrive.

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Oh man.

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He had all the time in the world.

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Some of those callers that we listened to and some of that stuff was actually after

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Lindsey's interview.

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Ooh, that's not good.

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I just didn't realize that cause I got to the end of the episode like, where was Lindsey?

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That's not good.

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Yeah.

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He had plenty of time.

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Wow.

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So we get to the end of this episode and I think this is really very fascinating to me

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because you have the, like the first thing is, you know, you got the, Tamerlan is a fan

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of Info Wars and that's fascinating.

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Seeing how Alex responds to that is really interesting.

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But then out of nowhere you got this Izvestia story, this Russian news story that you see

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how Alex changes it.

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You see how he manipulates the details is so vague about the sources.

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People can't like his listeners can't verify anything that he's saying.

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He turns it into proof documents released.

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Everything is proven that he, Tamerlan was recruited by the CIA in Georgia.

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Yeah.

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Boom.

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Then he brings back the, um, Tamerlan was a fan of Info Wars narrative, connect it to

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this Misha character and integrates that with the Izvestia story in order to make it so

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everything is the CIA.

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Yeah.

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Everything.

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They're the ones who were saying that Tamerlan was a fan of Info Wars in order to satisfy

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Alex's prophecy that they were going to find a way to blame the Patriots.

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It's really, it's really interesting.

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It all works.

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It all works if you believe him.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's all bullshit.

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But what we're watching is him rewrite the reality in real time, you know, like, and

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that's probably why he's so tired is normally he gets to have other people write articles

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for him and then he can do it.

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But this is almost all, it feels extemporaneous like him, him adding so much about the story

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when he started the episode.

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He didn't know about Misha necessarily it at least it doesn't seem like it until two

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thirds of the way through the episode.

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Yeah.

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It's the same thing he's been doing with his hole bombing.

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Right.

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He's been on the seat of his pants for quite a while.

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And I think, I think that element of it made this episode a little bit more interesting

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than some of the last couple of days because those have been so like standard Alex.

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Yeah.

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Whereas this is a little bit more, it feels a little more improvisational.

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You can see the instincts a little more than just the like, all right, boring, dumb propaganda.

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Whoopty shit, dumb conspiracy.

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And uh, yeah, so I mean, and it was, it was really illuminating to see that Misha thing

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happened so quickly.

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Like it went from, I just found out about Misha to, uh, maybe Misha was this guy over

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here and then he's this guy and maybe Misha's the actual and he's CIA.

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And then all of a sudden that all crystallized into truth and it was concrete and he knew

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the whole beats of the story.

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I don't, I have a strong suspicion.

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I don't know this to be true, but I have a strong suspicion that that is not going to

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be continued.

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Oh no.

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Misha was behind the drills.

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I think once they find him, uh, in Rhode Island, Alex is gonna be like, nah, he'll rewrite

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the new story.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It'll be, it'll be something stupid, but it won't be that specifically.

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So I don't know.

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I'm interested to see where this goes.

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There's still actually like, even if there is a feeling that I have that I kind of feel

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like Alex is already on the crisis actors too.

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Yeah.

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And I think the clip I think is really illuminating on that front.

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I still think that there's more that he, a greater fall that he has to make that I'm

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still interested in seeing.

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And then there's one big piece of the Boston bombing narratives that is still not in play

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and I do not know how he hasn't gotten to it yet.

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And so I am going to keep continuing down this road in 2013 because there's something

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fucking gigantic.

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I don't know why it's insane to me that he hasn't brought up yet and I'm just going to

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keep that there as a tease and we'll see when Alex finally does bring it up.

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I'm excited.

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But we'll get to that in an episode down the road, but for now we've got a website.

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We do have a website.

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It's knowledge fight.com.

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That is correct.

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We're also on Twitter.

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We are on Twitter.

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Is that knowledge underscore fight and I go to bed Jordan.

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You can find us on Facebook.

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We are on Facebook and if you'd like to download the show, please go to iTunes, downloaded

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labor review, et cetera, yada, yada, yada, other stuff.

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Patreon.

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Move it on.

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We'll be back on Wednesday, but until then, I'm an EO.

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I'm Leo.

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I'm DZX Clark.

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I am Saxby Chambliss.

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Andy in Kansas.

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You're on the air.

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Thanks for holding.

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Hello Alex.

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I'm a first time caller.

Unknown Speaker (02:13:32.100)

I'm a huge fan.

Unknown Speaker (02:13:33.100)

I love your work.

Unknown Speaker (02:13:34.100)

I love you.