Transcript/371: Canonical Space Weirdness

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys, knowledge

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fight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys, knowledge

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fight.

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Dan and George, knowledge fight.

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Riddler, Riddler, Riddler.

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Need, need money.

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Riddler, Riddler, Riddler.

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Andy and Kansas, Andy and Kansas.

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Stop it.

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Andy and Kansas, Andy and Kansas.

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It's time to pray.

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Andy and Kansas, you're on the air.

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Thanks for holding.

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Hello, Alex.

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I'm a first time caller.

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I'm a huge fan.

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I love your room.

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Knowledge fight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys, knowledge

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fight.

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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, knowledge fight.

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I love you.

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Hey, everybody.

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Welcome back to knowledge fight.

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I'm Dan.

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I'm George.

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We're a couple of dudes like to sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little

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bit about Alex Jones.

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Indeed.

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We are Dan.

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Jordan.

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Dan.

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Jordan.

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Has a particular song ever gotten you through a tough time?

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Yeah.

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I mean hundreds of them.

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Hundreds of them.

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But you don't have a.

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No, no.

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I mean, you don't have like a go to.

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like in the olden times would listen to Blood on the tracks whenever they got a break up.

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Something like that. You don't have any like thing that you zeroed in on as your song, you know?

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No, I mean it's tough to say. I guess something that I've had to the longest.

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Yeah.

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I guess if you want to go that way. I mean some Mighty Mighty Boston stuff.

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Sure, sure.

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You know?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like a...

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When I'm going through a bad breakup, I want to listen to Mighty Mighty Boston.

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About half of the like question the answers album is probably stuff that I could

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put on and like get kind of sentimental about, like Toxic Toast or...

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Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

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Bronze in the Garbage. Is that on that album? I can't remember.

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Don't Know How to Party. That's on a different... I think that's for More Noise and Other Disturbances.

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He's still disturbed by how many Boston songs you could just toss on the...

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I probably could name the whole track listing of some of those albums.

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Hell of a hat.

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That's terrifying.

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Love those albums.

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I'm going to wake up in a cold sweat knowing this.

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Those got me through some tough times when I was a much younger man,

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when I was like in junior high and high school. Really loved a lot of that.

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And so maybe that has more of a strong sentimental connection to me.

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A Little Bit Ugly.

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Yeah.

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That's from Devil's Night Out.

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Sure, sure.

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That album. A lot of that I could probably... I haven't listened to any of that in a long time.

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But I bet if I turned it on, it would be great.

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Next time I go to the gym, I'm going to look right up to Justin Boston.

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I think that's a good idea.

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Yeah, I think that's probably the answer.

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Because the other thing that comes to mind is now like I air a lot on the side of things like

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Kesha and Carly Rae Jepsen and that stuff.

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But that's not like as long standing for me.

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Do you think... Is that like a counteracting?

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Is that like a counteract?

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You know, when you're feeling down, you want to listen to bright, shiny pop music?

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No, it's just kind of what I like more than a lot of stuff right now.

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It's more just like, eh.

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I think it's because I listen to tons of Alex Jones, you know?

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So like I have a lot of toxic things coming in.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So the idea of some bright, cheery...

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That's interesting.

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But then again, a lot of Kesha isn't necessarily bright and cheery.

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Right, right, right.

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So that's kind of heavy.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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But no, I don't know.

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I don't have a song.

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But you know, I like the boss tones.

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Now Spock has where I know a lot about the boss tones and a ton about Alex Jones.

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I don't know anything about either.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah.

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So Jordan, today we've got an interesting situation on our hands.

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As I told you before we started recording here, I spent all day yesterday listening

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to Alex and trying to prepare an episode based on his like Sunday and Monday episodes from

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this week.

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And it was an experience I haven't had in a long time of just like feeling like it's

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all a whiff.

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Yeah.

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Like it's just...

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Who cares?

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Oh man.

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Sunday, it feels like him going back to his roots a little bit, but it's just kind of

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boring conspiracy stuff.

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It feels untethered and like Larry Nichols didn't come back on like he said he might.

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Of course.

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I'm listening to Monday and he's just talking about Trump going to Walter Reed Hospital,

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right?

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Okay.

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And so it's all just Trump is being poisoned.

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Oh, okay.

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And we've done this already.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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We played this game.

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Yeah.

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We played this game already with Roger with the slow acting in the Diet Cokes.

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Polonium poison on top of that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I just felt like real uninspired by it.

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I felt like I can't do this again.

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I did think it was a little bit interesting, only in so much as back the last time that

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Alex covered this poisoning narrative that he was doing the way, the way he presented

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it was they're trying to kill our president.

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You know, it was very much a like, ah, gung ho Roger calling for globalist blood.

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Right?

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Right.

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Right.

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Yes.

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They can't be allowed to do this.

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No, of course not.

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And the way I was, I heard this on Monday's show was much more like, well, what are you

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going to do?

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There was a sense of like, they're poisoning our president again.

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What do you expect from the globalists?

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No kidding.

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They're evil and they're bad.

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So we should be mad at them.

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But Trump was almost like a prop.

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Yeah.

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Like this thing was being done to him as opposed to like, we've got to stop this from happening.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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And I thought that was a little interesting, but I also felt like I'm probably reading

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too much into this.

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Maybe he's just tired.

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I feel a little bit gun shy about being too, uh, like over the top about anything.

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I do think that there's some trends you could see as Alex was introducing, um, the, uh,

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the, uh, narratives about, uh, is Trump the, the, the globalists, uh, stooge who's in here

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to make, to, to neutralize like a controlled opposition kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I don't want to buy too much into that because you know, like it's easy to take Alex

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at his word and then be like a couple months later, be like, well, should you listen?

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Like when he had Paul Joseph Watson on and they were talking about, he was going to be

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going on to newer things and he did, yeah, we got, we got a little burned by that a tiny

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bit in terms of like, oh, I believed you were fucking crying.

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That's not fair.

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No, it, in fairness to us, there's every reason to think like, wow, this might be real, but

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I don't want to, I don't want to jump too far into like, ah, this time he's talking

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about poisoning.

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He's doing it differently.

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Yeah.

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I think it means anything.

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It was just, anyway, I listened to these episodes and as I was taking clips from them and like

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trying to find stuff to get into, I was just like, I felt like I was walking through mud

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and it was just like, I can't do this.

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So I have decided that we're going to do an episode today about a certain question that

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I have been wrestling with and we've brought up on the show before.

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It'll be sort of wacky Wednesday ish.

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That's fairly wacky.

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Okay.

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And so we are going to explore this question and we will get into that in a moment, but

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before we do, we've got to say thank you to some people who have signed up and are supporting

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the show.

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That sounds good.

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So first of all, Scott, thank you so much.

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You were now policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk Scott next David.

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Thank you so much.

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etta.com policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you, David.

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Thank you, David.

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Next Dustin.

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Thank you so much.

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You're now a policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Next propaganda.

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Doo, thank you so much.

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you're an owl.

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Policy wonk.

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Thank you very much propaganda.

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Doo, next asinine.

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Genius.

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Thank you so much.

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You are now policy wonk.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Thank you.

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And then finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who donated on an elevated level.

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We appreciate that very much.

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So, GravityHead0, thank you so much.

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You are now a technocrat.

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I'm a policy wonk.

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Crikey, mate.

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That's fantastic.

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Have yourself a brew.

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How's your 401k doing, bro?

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All right.

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We've got to go full tilt boogie on this, Watson.

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All right?

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Let's just get down to business.

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We ain't making that money off that heroin.

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Why are you pimps so good?

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My neck is freakishly large.

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I declare info war on you.

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Thank you so much, GravityHead0.

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Yes.

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Thank you very much.

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If you're listening out there and you're thinking, hey, I enjoy this show, I'd like to support

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what these gents do, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking

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the button that says, support the show.

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We would appreciate it.

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It'd be very helpful.

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So, Jordan, like I said, I have a question that I have been wrestling with.

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And the last time we dipped our little toes into the Project Camelot world, it was a question

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that was coming up and felt important.

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And that is, why is Kevin Moore doing what he's doing?

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Right, right, right, right.

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He is the guy, if you do not recall, he is the guy who's producing and directing a documentary

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about Carrie Cassidy and Project Camelot and Mark Richards, and his actions seem very suspicious

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to me.

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So, I want to give a little bit of an introduction for everybody who needs a little bit, a quick

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reference on what has happened.

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Oh, are you going to channel him?

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Previously on Wacky Wednesday.

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You're going to need to do a voice though.

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In our channeling world, in our channeling world, you got to do the voice.

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So for those who need a refresher, early on in doing this podcast, this Knowledge Fight

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here, we realized that talking about Alex Jones all the time was not good for anyone.

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To give ourselves and the audience a break, we would take periodic little trips, little

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excursions to talk about people who claim to have been to space and claim to talk to

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aliens, who have been interviewed on a show called Project Camelot.

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Project Camelot is hosted by Carrie Cassidy, the least credulous woman on the planet.

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Initially, it was all a lot of fun with super soldiers and chocolate stealing raptors, until

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over time it became clear that Carrie was holding some of the same underlying bigotries

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we see in other right wing outlets.

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Every goddamn time, we're like, hey, this is fun and delightful.

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No, it's all antisemitism, dammit.

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Her support for the protocols of the elders of Zion was certainly troubling, and I can't

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say I'm thrilled with some of her other comments about Jews, generally speaking, and suspicions

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of...

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So over time, it became less whimsical and fun to listen to her show, but her interviews

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with Captain Mark Richards were still required viewing.

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Dynamite.

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Mark Richards is a man who paid a teenager to kill a guy who owed him money back in the

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80s, and has been in prison ever since.

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While in prison, he's concocted an elaborate story about how he's innocent because he was

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secretly off planet at the time of the murder, doing a space mission in his sentient spacecraft

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whose name is Minerva.

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And so far, there are no holes in that story.

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He knows everything about human politics and galactic affairs, and the only journalist

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he'll talk to is Carrie Cassidy.

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Because he's in prison, Carrie can't really interview him, so she just goes to the jail,

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talks to him, and then sits down in front of a webcam when she gets home and reviews

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her notes.

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Thus, the name of her series about Mark Richards, Total Recall.

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Leave aside for a moment that that's a reference to a movie based on Philip K. Dick's short

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story that plays with the idea of whether or not memories are real.

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That's not important.

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Over the years, Mark has told Carrie some absolutely insane shit, which she then reports

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to her audience as gospel, coming from a very real and very reliable source who definitely

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isn't a murderer.

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He's a noble space captain who's friends with raptors and the enemy of the evil reptoids.

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He's got a hell of a resume.

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He does.

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I will give him a fake resume as long as the day.

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Enter Kevin Moore, a British documentarian and channeler.

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For years, Kevin hosted a program called, and still does in some fashion, called the

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Kevin Moore Show, where he interviews some of the dubious, dubious people about paranormal

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and new age kinds of topics.

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He's had Carrie Cassidy on as a guest and even interviewed Mark's wife, Joanne Richards.

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He's shown no signs of thinking that what they were doing was absurd.

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In his interview with Joanne, he completely went along with her stories about Mark being

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a secret space captain who was framed for murder.

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Something changed at some point, and now Kevin is directing a documentary series about Mark

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Richards being a murderer and how Carrie, Joanne, and another pro-Mark figure named

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Simon Parks are all basically in a cult.

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Obviously, Kevin is right about that.

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Well, for one, I'm glad that somebody's finally tackling this subject of Mark Richards being

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a liar because for the longest time when we've talked about it, we both assumed he was telling

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the truth, of course.

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Sure.

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He's really opened my eyes on the subject.

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But he's right.

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Mark is definitely a murderer, and his defenders are all delusional to some extent.

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But even if I agree with that conclusion, something doesn't sit right with me about

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how Kevin reached the conclusion.

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He had no credentials as being a person who would have scruples, but now he's positioning

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himself as someone who is going to expose a major fraud in the paranormal and UFO communities.

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I didn't get it, so I started looking into it, and this is all still recap.

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Well, let's not forget.

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He still does not have any scruples.

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No.

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This is not a sea change.

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This is an isolated incident of him trying to do one, I suppose, good thing, still surrounded

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with scamming people for hundreds and hundreds of dollars a minute.

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In looking into Kevin Moore so far in the past, I see nothing but a picture of a completely

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uncompelling charlatan.

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He has videos that we've talked about where he channels aliens like this.

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We come to you as many.

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The gift of Kevin is the gift to be able to channel multiple entities, multiple beings,

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and that is a true gift in this special time on planet Earth right now.

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He doesn't need to change his voice or act in a different way.

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This is an agreement we have with him.

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Okay.

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So he has-

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Never going to get tired of that.

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No, it's fantastic.

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Never going to get tired of that.

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So he has videos where he's channeling aliens.

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There's no rigorous standards of proof of what he's doing here.

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He runs a psychic hotline.

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He's used his show to give largely uncritical interviews to all manner of dubious folks

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like the employees of his psychic hotline or the guy from Apex TV who claims to talk

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to time travelers, but he's really just creating viral hoax content probably for ad revenue.

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Kevin claims that he's making this documentary series because what Kerry and Mark are doing

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is bad for the community of alternative folks because they don't do their research.

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They haven't done the... They're giving it a bad name.

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Absolutely.

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What they're doing is not real, whereas presumably what Kevin is doing is based on reality.

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It's an absurd justification for the documentary, so I reject it.

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If we accept that that can't possibly be why he's doing what he's doing, we're left to

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ask, what's really going on?

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I can't pretend to tell you that I've solved this mystery, but I had a little bit of a

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theory and I explored it, and I'm going to present that theory to you today.

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All right.

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One of the primary things that's bothered me about this whole thing is where's the money

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coming from?

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So, bigger question, is Kerry his mom?

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No.

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Okay, never mind.

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You've already pitched that Mark is his dad.

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I know.

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I've got one theory.

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Yeah.

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Where's the money coming from, Jordan?

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Yes.

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Is Kevin more independently wealthy?

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Did he sell off a business 10 years ago that's funding this whole thing?

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It's a relevant question because he's clearly traveling all over the place.

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There's videos of him flying around.

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He's going to California to try and track down people involved in Mark's case.

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He's jet setting.

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For this documentary, he's gone all over the place.

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I will say that he has way higher production value than a lot of the folks I come across

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in this space weirdo community.

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Yeah.

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It'd be weird if Ken Burns was producing this.

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Yeah.

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Even assuming he's a naturally talented video producer, there's still some money going into

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this.

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Trying to answer that question led me back to a video that Kevin posted in 2013 introducing

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a new partnership with the Kevin Moore Show.

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The Moore Show is in partnership with Ozark Mountain Publishing, taking readers beyond

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the unexplained.

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Hello, I'm Kevin Moore, and I host the Moore Show alternative late night talk on radio,

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TV, and online.

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And I'm Joanna Su, producer of the Moore Show.

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We are proud to announce that the Moore Show is now in partnership with Ozark Mountain

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Publishing.

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The Moore Show alternative late night talk is on the leading edge of alternative radio

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and TV programming in the UK.

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The show's mission is to uplift and awaken human consciousness through bold and powerful

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interviews with paranormal researchers.

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This goes on for a while.

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Yeah, I believe it.

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So, but it also gets to the end, and it's talking about, you know, we're to sell the

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books of Ozark Mountain Publishing, and we're going to launch a platform where you can buy

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advertising.

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So, it's a comprehensive partnership.

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See, this is interesting.

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Ozark Mountain Publishing is not a super huge publishing outlet.

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So, it seems strange that they would be partnering up with a not super huge paranormal show all

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the way across the Atlantic Ocean.

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It's hard to say exactly what kind of revenue Ozark Mountain Publishing is pulling in, but

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a review on Glassdoor from a former employee complains that working there involves a, quote,

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crazy family-managed environment, and says that it's a small company with less than 50

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employees.

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Yeah, that sounds right.

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I don't know why.

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I think for some reason I'm prejudiced against any company that is like Ozark Mountain or

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Ozark.

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What about the Ozark water bottle company?

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See, I mean, they make water bottles, so they're bad.

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That makes sense.

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What about Lake of the Ozarks?

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Have you ever been there?

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I don't think I have ever been there.

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Oh, it's great.

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Gorgeous, gorgeous lake.

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Have you ever been there?

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Yes.

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It's in the middle of Missouri.

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I think my buddy, his parents had a lake house there.

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We went tubing.

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Never once.

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All right.

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It's a good time.

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All right.

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Well, then I retract my Ozark prejudices.

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Ozark is a big, broad term.

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Don't be so biased.

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Okay.

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I'm sorry.

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Ozark Mountain Publishing was founded in 1992 by a woman named Dolores Cannon.

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Dolores passed in 2014, but prior to that, she was a bit of a player in the world of

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the paranormal.

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She'd written a ton of books.

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She put on the Ozark UFO Conference, which is allegedly currently right now in its 33rd

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year.

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I'm not sure that's true, but it could be.

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I mean, yeah, the Fyre Fest is in its third year, right?

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Something like that.

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Third year?

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33rd.

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I was being... Never mind.

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Dolores was doing hypnosis back in the 60s to try and help patients with things like

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smoking and overeating and behavioral issues.

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Oh, okay.

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So she wasn't scamming.

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It's hard to say, but I don't have a gigantically negative sense about Dolores, although I do

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think she's a little scamming.

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Okay.

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Everyone in this world kind of is.

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They got to be a little bit.

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Yeah, but if you're trying to help people quit smoking with hypnosis, that's way better

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than if you're charging-

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This is back in the 60s.

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If you're charging $90 a minute to get psychic readings and shit.

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We have 70 years to cover-

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That's a good point.

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That's a good point.

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Fair.

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In the course of doing her work, she stumbled upon a woman in 1968 who regaled her with

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stories of a past life when she was hypnotized.

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Dolores's work got interrupted when her husband got injured and she had to care for him and

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the family had to relocate to the Ozarks, but by the late 70s, she was back up and running

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hypnotizing people.

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I found a particular line in Dolores's bio pretty funny, quote, her early work was heavily

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focused on reincarnation, which got her acquainted and comfortable with the concept of time travel,

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which I would say, how could it not?

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I mean, so many reasons?

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Sure.

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I feel like those two things are not related.

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Not necessarily.

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Her work began as past life regression, but eventually grew into what she calls quantum

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healing hypnosis technique, which is a name that she has trademarked.

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All right, now we're back into scammy territory.

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A little.

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As she continued her work in the field, she found resistance on the part of the mainstream

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book houses to publish her writing and thus she started up Ozark Mountain Publishing in

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1992 through which she puts up tons of books of her own as well as those of tons of other

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new age sorts of writers.

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Three of the books she put out were of her own that they purport to be the authoritative

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interpretations of Nostradamus's prophecies.

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Three of those books.

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Well, it's a three part series.

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It's a three part series.

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Yeah.

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She could be certain that they are authoritative because Nostradamus himself told her so.

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Oh, there we, okay, all right.

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In a session she was having, her patient began speaking as Nostradamus and told her that

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everyone was getting his shit wrong because of changes to the French language over time

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and he needed Dolores to write a book to correct the record.

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Of course he did.

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I don't believe any of that.

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Of course he didn't only write in French, but who cares?

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So, Dolores Cannon runs this publishing house and they've entered into a partnership with

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The Moore Show in 2013, which on its own is kind of weird, but it's not entirely insane.

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I know how it can be when you're trying to get your name out there.

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Sometimes you make marketing decisions that seem strange to external observers.

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Like a couple years ago I bought a Facebook ad for instance.

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Yeah.

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You know, it happens.

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Eh, what are you going to do?

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But here's the thing.

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This wasn't just Ozark Mountain Publishing buying an ad on Kevin's show.

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This was a partnership.

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Like in that ad that we were doing, that announcement, it's a business integration sort of thing.

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You can tell.

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Right.

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And guess what?

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This was not short term.

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I've reviewed a ton of Kevin's videos from the past few months in 2019 and most of them

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start with an ad for Dolores Cannon.

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A great ad for Dolores Cannon.

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You can help others to find the power to heal themselves, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

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When I started teaching my classes, it was in 2002, and I was just doing the past life

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regressions and contacting the subconscious part.

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But then as the time went on and we found how powerful this was and what we could do

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with it, a lot of the students began saying, you know, advanced past life regression doesn't

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really tell what it's all about.

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This is so much more than that.

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We think you should change the name.

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So it was a few years ago we decided to change the name to Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique.

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And this is the healing technique that we've now been teaching since 2002, that's 12 years.

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What if you could time travel with them, visit mythical places or angelic realms, other worlds,

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other galaxies, help others to speak to their higher selves?

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You can.

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Dolores has taught thousands of people from across the world how to use QHHT, and now

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you can learn her method by going directly to DoloresCannon.com.

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And don't forget to mention the discount code, MoreTalks.

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So that's six years that the Moore Show has been in partnership with the Dolores Cannon

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slash Ozark Mountain publishing business.

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And that seems interesting to me.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Having a coupon code for time travel seems very interesting to me.

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It's not so much time travel for yourself.

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It's the quantum technique that allows you to help other people time travel or something.

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No, I get that.

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Which actually I think is even more irresponsible because you're teaching people how to do a

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weird therapy to other people.

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I'm not comfortable with any of this.

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It's franchising your time travel therapy.

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More or less.

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Makes perfect sense.

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I've gone through tons of Kevin's videos and I can find no evidence of any other sponsors

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other than Dolores Cannon extending to the Ozark Mountain publishing and his own website

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channeling.com, which is little more than a front for Kevin's Psychocop.

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So I don't see where any other income or flow of money is coming from except this long standing

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partnership with Dolores Cannon and Ozark Mountain publishing.

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These videos on his channel also have pretty low engagement.

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So it would be completely unbelievable for me to imagine that he's making any real money

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on YouTube monetizing these documentaries that he's putting out like channel, they call

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us channelers, this new documentary that he's put out.

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That's not being sold anywhere.

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Maybe it's some like real boutique shop or something, real niche new age shop.

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It's being rented in blockbusters still though.

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I doubt even that.

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I can't see that being a strong revenue stream, but he flew all over the place to interview

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these channelers.

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Like there is a money flow coming in.

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Something is happening.

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Right.

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I just don't know exactly what it is.

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It makes me think that based on this, he's either making a killing on that psychic hotline,

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which I find probably unbelievable.

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I imagine there's some money coming in there, but it can't possibly be enough.

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I just don't see it being enough.

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I think a lot of this money has got to be coming from Ozark Mountain publishing and

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from the Dolores Cannon branch.

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So that raises the question.

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Is there any reason to suspect that there would be beef between Carrie Cassidy and Dolores

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Cannon?

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And I think that there is.

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Okay.

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Dolores Cannon didn't publish Carrie's book.

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I don't know.

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I know that she wouldn't.

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Right.

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Dolores Cannon didn't publish Mark Richard's book.

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I know that she wouldn't do that either.

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She was like, no, no mako shark rampant in my house.

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No, but he doesn't need that because when he was writing that book, Joanne, his soon

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to be wife, was working in publishing.

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Right.

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But I was questioning this possibility that there might be some sort of a schism between

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Carrie and Dolores Cannon.

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And that led me to a May 3rd, 2010 video that Carrie Cassidy posted on Project Camelot of

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her interviewing Dolores Cannon.

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Okay.

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So this is from back in 2010.

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Dolores is Carrie's mom.

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No.

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Okay.

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Damn it.

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If you watch this video, there's a very good reason to believe that these two, Dolores

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and Carrie, are not nearly on the same page as each other.

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So here's Carrie giving an introduction to Dolores.

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This is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I'm here with Dolores Cannon.

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I'm very pleased to introduce our audience to Dolores Cannon and her work.

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I have been studying your work for quite some time, read several of your books, and I'm

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very impressed with your diligence, with the care you take, with each and every person

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that you regress.

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And I just really want to welcome you here and thank you very much for taking the time.

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Thanks for asking me to do this.

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So this is very friendly and jovial.

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Yeah.

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We're off to a great start.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it doesn't go off the rails or anything.

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It doesn't turn into a fight, but if you know anything about Carrie and if you know anything

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about the world that she believes in, you will hear certain things along the way through

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this interview that are gigantic things that she disagrees with.

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This first one that comes up is a discussion of alien abductions.

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Dolores has an interesting take on alien abductions that is 100% counter to Carrie.

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Yes, in the beginning, it was just taking them on board the craft.

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My book that I've written about this, my 25 years, is called The Custodians because all

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through my work, I have not seen any negativity.

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It's always been positive.

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This is the way I see them as the custodians of our planets.

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The first book I wrote on it was The Keepers of the Garden.

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We are the garden, and they are the gardeners, and I've never found negativity because I

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could see why they were doing what they were doing and the reasons for the whole thing.

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Okay, and when you say they, who are you talking about?

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The ETs.

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Okay.

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So up to this point in the interview, Dolores has just been explaining her backstory to

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Carrie and describing how she's discovered through hypnotizing people that they'd been

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abducted by aliens, but that was always a positive experience.

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This is a major, major departure from the worldview of Project Camelot, where pretty

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much all alien abduction is nefarious and likely the work of the evil reptilians or

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their associates in the human secret space program.

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Even if they're good ostensibly in her pantheon, they're abducting people evilly.

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Raptors don't kidnap people for good.

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The raptors are great, but they're going to eat you for chocolate.

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Yeah.

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Carrie believes that a lot of this stuff is done to, like the abductions, is done to harvest

Unknown Speaker (00:28:51.640)

material from us in order to produce clones or hybrids that can, I guess, be used to better

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take over society or something.

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Gall bladders are delicious.

Unknown Speaker (00:28:59.240)

That's it.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:00.240)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:01.240)

They're made of chocolate.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:02.240)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:03.240)

But Dolores doesn't believe that.

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In her experience, all interactions with ET have been positive once, and she professes

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to have an understanding of their purpose, which is something that Carrie can't argue

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with.

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If she has, like, I've spoken to the aliens, I know why they're doing what they're doing.

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Carrie can't be like, wow, here's evidence.

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How the fuck much of a dead end is that?

Unknown Speaker (00:29:23.660)

There is a little bit of... It's like two people arguing over what houses look like

Unknown Speaker (00:29:28.619)

in heaven, where you're like, I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying, but shut up.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:34.119)

As Dolores lays out in the interview, these aliens are just the custodians of the planet,

Unknown Speaker (00:29:38.519)

and when they abduct somebody, they're doing it to help them.

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There are these adjustments that need to be made in humans, and the ET are there to make

Unknown Speaker (00:29:45.640)

those adjustments so the person can live up to the arrangements that they made before

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being born, so they can carry out their mission in life.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:53.039)

This is great, fantastic.

Unknown Speaker (00:29:57.400)

It's a large... It's more New Age inspired than a lot of what Carrie is into.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:04.920)

There's this idea of your soul, and before and after you die, you and your soul group

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are together, and you guys all make arrangements of what you're going to do in the next life,

Unknown Speaker (00:30:13.839)

and then once you're born, your mind is wiped.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:15.720)

You can't remember anything.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:17.000)

That's impossible.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:18.000)

Have you ever tried to get four or five people to go out for dinner?

Unknown Speaker (00:30:21.359)

Making arrangements for what you're going to do in the next life is never going to happen.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:24.539)

Your inability to create those dinner plans is something you agreed on before you were

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born.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:30.720)

That's true.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:31.720)

That's true.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:32.720)

I wish I had remembered that.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:33.720)

You and your soul group agreed to make it impossible to make dinner plans in order so

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once you were incarnated on Earth, you and your friends could grow through that frustration.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:42.359)

You created your own challenge pre-birth in order... It's a New Agey thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:47.720)

It's pretty common in a lot of these circles to have these... It's a predestination, but

Unknown Speaker (00:30:53.440)

also free will.

Unknown Speaker (00:30:54.680)

There's a lot... Because your mind's wiped, it allows for both to sort of co-exist.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:00.140)

It's where Dolores is at for sure, and it is not where Carrie is at.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:04.400)

No, no, no.

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Absolutely.

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What we see here is the first indication of a fundamental difference in worldview between

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these two.

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On the small scale, there's the differing takes on alien abduction, but if you zoom

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out, this is a microcosm of a much larger disagreement, primarily about what the character

Unknown Speaker (00:31:19.440)

of the universe is.

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For Carrie, space is a place full of war and different races of aliens doing battle for

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control of, I guess, space resources.

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For Dolores, space is full of love and care.

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It's just an extension of something that's all about us, but also much larger than us.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:37.079)

There's a game going on involving us and other alien races, but we're playing it together,

Unknown Speaker (00:31:42.920)

and it's about cooperative advancement.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:45.119)

Killer!

Unknown Speaker (00:31:46.279)

Killer!

Unknown Speaker (00:31:47.279)

These are entirely incompatible views of the galaxy that these two people have.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:51.440)

I know what she would be called if Larry Nichols were around.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:54.359)

Witch.

Unknown Speaker (00:31:55.359)

She's a witch.

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We get to a little bit later in the interview, and they start talking about, like, what aliens

Unknown Speaker (00:32:06.220)

are you talking about?

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We instantly find another branching between these two that I don't know how they could

Unknown Speaker (00:32:13.519)

possibly bridge this gap.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:15.640)

You were talking to which groups now?

Unknown Speaker (00:32:18.519)

They don't have any.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:19.519)

Witch groups.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:20.519)

They wouldn't tell you.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:21.519)

I mean -

Unknown Speaker (00:32:22.519)

They don't have names.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:23.519)

But as far as we know, in other words, we know about, for example, Nordics as a general

Unknown Speaker (00:32:27.720)

category, and we know about Grays and so on and so forth, even Reptilians.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:32.519)

Have you gotten -

Unknown Speaker (00:32:33.519)

I've contacted them and contacted with all of them and come through at various times.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:38.279)

But when I asked them, where were you from, they said, we don't have a name for where

Unknown Speaker (00:32:43.640)

we come from.

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You humans have to put labels on things.

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So if you need it, we will give you a label.

Unknown Speaker (00:32:51.319)

But they said, if we told you we were from the planet out there to the north of the fourth

Unknown Speaker (00:32:56.599)

star, you wouldn't know which one it was, because it's not even in your constellation

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books.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:02.680)

That's right.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:03.680)

But they don't come from planets anyway.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:05.039)

They come from other dimensions and galaxies far, far away, because they travel through

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dimensions.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:11.480)

Yes.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:12.480)

And so they said it wouldn't do any good to tell you where we are from.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:16.279)

And on board the crafts are many, many different kinds, just like Star Trek.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:21.079)

Just like Star Trek.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:22.079)

Just like Star Trek.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:23.079)

So here we have another fundamental disagreement between Carrie and Dolores Cannon.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:27.279)

One of the things that most characterizes Carrie's view of the folks from space is that

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they all belong to rigidly defined groups, and they are defined by the group's characteristics.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:37.700)

The Reptilians are Draco.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:39.480)

They're pure evil.

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The spider leadership are bad, and they're meddling on Earth.

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The mantids were formerly bad, but they've made an alliance, and they might be on our

Unknown Speaker (00:33:46.900)

side now, according to Simon Parks or something.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:49.079)

Who knows?

Unknown Speaker (00:33:50.079)

The raptors are good, and they're our allies, though they will eat babies on occasion and

Unknown Speaker (00:33:53.680)

will kill you for chocolate.

Unknown Speaker (00:33:55.039)

Which it's like sometimes you got to make a... Look, I mean, Saudi Arabia is technically

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our ally.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:00.680)

You know what I'm saying?

Unknown Speaker (00:34:01.680)

Naturally, the Nordics, the aliens most like white people, are unassailably good.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:05.720)

It is weird how they are unassailably good.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:08.139)

That is true.

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Dolores sees a far more multicultural universe.

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Compared to Carrie, her view is downright progressive.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:16.059)

The labels of alien groups' names are meaningless in the larger picture, and they only exist

Unknown Speaker (00:34:20.159)

because humans have a need to put labels on things.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:23.599)

In the real world of space, Nordics work alongside raptors, mantids, and reptilians on the same

Unknown Speaker (00:34:28.559)

spacecraft.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:30.480)

It's like Star Trek.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:31.480)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:32.480)

Obviously, since I don't believe any of this, I'm left to try and find meaning in subtext.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:36.679)

I feel like the world that Dolores believes in is one where there's unity, where everyone

Unknown Speaker (00:34:40.719)

can be valued and collaborate, where group labels are meaningless.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:44.280)

Conversely, Carrie seems trapped in a mode of thinking where what group someone is a

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part of dictates certain intrinsic characteristics about them.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:53.440)

Applied to humans, this is what you might call racist.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:56.840)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:34:57.840)

The way Carrie engages in this stuff, it's not necessarily fair to call it racist, because

Unknown Speaker (00:35:02.079)

she could easily say that human is the group that we would apply universal characteristics

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to, in the same way she does with raptor or reptilian.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:10.860)

The problem is in how accepting that kind of thinking allows a person to apply it to

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subgroups pretty easily.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:18.199)

Carrie may believe that species is the smallest possible group where these kinds of generalizations

Unknown Speaker (00:35:22.820)

can be made, but I don't trust that position to hold, nor have I ever really heard her

Unknown Speaker (00:35:26.960)

articulate that kind of hard and fast line, that kind of rule of like, this kind of thinking

Unknown Speaker (00:35:31.800)

only applies this far.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:33.639)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:34.639)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:35.639)

It shan't be applied.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:36.639)

You need to be responsible if you're going to be like, this group is intrinsically this

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way.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:42.639)

This group is intrinsically this way.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:44.440)

You got to be real clear, but you'd better not apply this elsewhere.

Unknown Speaker (00:35:49.000)

What we're dealing with here is a classic, did Bill and Ted win or did Bill and Ted lose

Unknown Speaker (00:35:56.320)

intergalactic government situation here?

Unknown Speaker (00:35:58.739)

When Bill and Ted win-

Unknown Speaker (00:35:59.739)

That's the situation?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:00.739)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:01.739)

Have you never seen it?

Unknown Speaker (00:36:02.739)

Everybody.

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Air guitars, it's fantastic.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:04.739)

It's amazing.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:05.739)

It's like the one bogus journey, whenever the evil Bill and Ted around there, they're

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just causing destruction.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:11.139)

They're just ruining everything.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:12.960)

Carrie is the evil Bill and Ted.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:15.000)

This is unassailable logic.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:16.320)

This is an interesting take.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:17.639)

I'll say that what my perspective is, I appreciate yours, but what I'm saying is that I'm not

Unknown Speaker (00:36:25.199)

trying to call Carrie's view racist and Dolores's view not racist, but I think what we see here

Unknown Speaker (00:36:30.760)

still indicates a profoundly divergent view of the universe between their two worldviews.

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Carrie sees the galaxy as a war zone between distinct groups of alien races, whereas Dolores

Unknown Speaker (00:36:42.719)

sees it as a place of growth and evolution, where different groups don't see themselves

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as different and work towards shared goals.

Unknown Speaker (00:36:50.079)

It's the difference between seeing the universe as primarily conflict and seeing it as primarily

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cooperation.

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It's difficult for me to stress how at odds their positions are, which is very interesting.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:02.519)

Carrie and Dolores don't seem to hate each other, and their interview is polite enough,

Unknown Speaker (00:37:06.639)

but they have nothing in common.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:08.280)

Yeah, that is interesting.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:10.039)

Although Dolores loses me, actually, and I don't even know if this is brilliant within

Unknown Speaker (00:37:18.059)

the context of her statement or if it's exactly as stupid as it sounds, but the idea of an

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alien race being like, yeah, we're north of that star, north, north, north in space, you're

Unknown Speaker (00:37:32.119)

north in space, which north?

Unknown Speaker (00:37:34.039)

I think that she was saying that as an absurd way to look at it.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:36.960)

But see, that's the thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:38.280)

In the context, she wasn't saying it like, she was saying it like the alien race told

Unknown Speaker (00:37:43.559)

her that as a way of saying that.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:44.719)

I don't think that she was.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:45.719)

Yeah, I think she was.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:46.719)

I don't think she was.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:47.719)

I think she was.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:48.719)

I think she was using that as an example of what you would want to hear from an alien

Unknown Speaker (00:37:52.079)

and it being meaningless.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:53.800)

That's what, that's how I heard it.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:55.280)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:56.280)

Everything's open to interpretation.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:57.280)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:37:58.280)

I think there's a lot of fair criticisms of all of these people, but I think that's nitpicky.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:02.960)

Hey, I'm a hard sci-fi guy.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:05.679)

All right.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:06.679)

So we get back to alien abductions here in their interview and Dolores says something

Unknown Speaker (00:38:11.159)

really interesting that I could see Carrie taking personally.

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The ideal situation should be that the person never remember anything about the experience

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because they have been coming since the beginning of the Earth, taking care of humans since

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the beginning of the Earth, and they don't want to interfere with the individual's life.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:30.519)

We should, because of free will, we should be allowed to just live and experience life

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as we know it.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:36.920)

We're not supposed to interfere with it.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:39.239)

But they said because the chemistry of the brain has changed, the pollutants in the air,

Unknown Speaker (00:38:47.079)

the additives to the food, if the person is on drugs of any kind, recreational or medical

Unknown Speaker (00:38:53.840)

drugs, if they are drinking on alcohol, it changes the chemistry of the brain.

Unknown Speaker (00:38:59.360)

Thus, when the person remembers an experience, they don't remember it all.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:04.440)

Usually it's parts of an experience or a dream.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:08.280)

They are remembering the experience in a distorted fashion.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:12.800)

So it's not correct.

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And they're quite scared.

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They think they've been raped.

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They think all kinds of horrible things have happened to them.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:20.320)

And this is what the UT community, UFO community, they exploit that.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:25.639)

They have speakers come and talk about all the horrible things that were done to them.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:29.760)

Well, I can have the same person that somebody else has got this horrible story from.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:35.519)

I do them, we get a totally different story because we find out what really happened.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:40.719)

You're so close.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:41.719)

And it's not at all what they thought it was.

Unknown Speaker (00:39:44.400)

So Dolores is expressing that these people, because they have some, ideally the aliens

Unknown Speaker (00:39:50.239)

brain wipe or whatever it would hold, but because of environmental changes or drugs

Unknown Speaker (00:39:55.880)

or whatever, these people have a partial memory of something and they're exploited by the

Unknown Speaker (00:40:02.639)

UFO community.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:03.639)

Who's part of that UFO community?

Unknown Speaker (00:40:05.920)

She just told Carrie that one, everything that she believes is actually true is a shitty

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distortion of what's real.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:13.119)

And two, she's part of a group of people exploiting people based on that.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:17.840)

In one fucking paragraph, she's invalidated all of Carrie.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:23.599)

Well, without being super or hyper confrontational, she is saying...

Unknown Speaker (00:40:29.480)

She just said everything you do is bullshit.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:31.440)

More or less.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:32.440)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:33.440)

Damn.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:34.440)

So, I mean, that's gotta be tough to hear, especially if you've made your life lying.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:41.300)

So Carrie's pretty interested in this interview about the...

Unknown Speaker (00:40:44.559)

Like we talk about a lot, and I've already brought up this obsession almost with categorizing

Unknown Speaker (00:40:50.159)

these aliens.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:52.119)

And Dolores seems to think that she's focusing on the wrong thing.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:54.920)

Oh, but let's go back a minute.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:57.039)

You were talking about the different races.

Unknown Speaker (00:40:59.019)

I've had many different ones come through.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:02.519)

Some of them you wouldn't even recognize.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:03.960)

They're not any pictures you've ever seen.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:07.139)

But they're able to communicate, because it's all... it's mind to mind that they speak through

Unknown Speaker (00:41:11.960)

the person I'm working with.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:13.760)

Sure.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:14.760)

And we have...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:15.760)

I have information that I can tell you that you wouldn't believe, but you want to...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:19.840)

Ha ha!

Unknown Speaker (00:41:20.840)

I bet you would.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:21.840)

Well, okay.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:22.840)

We'll be happy to hear some of the information.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:23.840)

I wouldn't believe if that's what you think.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:26.119)

See, I think there's a little bit of...

Unknown Speaker (00:41:28.840)

Carrie taking that as condescension.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:30.239)

Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:31.239)

Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:32.239)

And I could sense a bit of that through the interview.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:35.880)

Although like I said, it doesn't turn into a fight or anything, like Carrie might in

Unknown Speaker (00:41:39.360)

the present day or whatever.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:41.480)

There's still a bit of, I don't know, respect between the two of them.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:47.380)

And I think that some of that might be a product of this being in 2010.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:51.519)

A lot of things were quite different.

Unknown Speaker (00:41:53.079)

We were still pre-2012 predictions, so everyone was really excited about this world of shit.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:01.559)

I'm getting a very maternal vibe from Dolores in this interview.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:06.159)

I mean, just in the way that she is interacting with Carrie as being like, you're young, you've

Unknown Speaker (00:42:12.239)

got a lot more to learn about this.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:14.920)

You're focusing on all of this.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:16.760)

And Carrie would obviously take that as condescension.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:18.840)

Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:19.840)

Because it kind of is.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:20.840)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:21.840)

Mildly, maybe.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:22.840)

Well, I think it's more like I have a perspective about this that explains your perspective.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:27.960)

Right.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:28.960)

And you could easily see that as condescension.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:30.360)

But also, I mean, Dolores has been doing this since the 70s.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:33.960)

She's been in this game a lot longer than Carrie, too, so she's earned her maternal

Unknown Speaker (00:42:38.960)

status.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:39.960)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:40.960)

And don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here talking about how great Dolores Cannon is.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:43.880)

Later in the episode, she's talking to Carrie.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:46.159)

She's a pretty anti-vex.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:47.159)

Of course.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:48.159)

We can't have anything nice, Dan.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:50.880)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:51.880)

I'm not here to say that she's a hero or anything.

Unknown Speaker (00:42:54.219)

But the point is, these two people both believe in aliens and all that shit, but have completely

Unknown Speaker (00:42:59.559)

different perspectives on what's happening.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:01.880)

There are disagreements about the nature of abductions, the nature of alien life, the

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value of dividing aliens into different groups, whether or not the behavior of the UFO community

Unknown Speaker (00:43:10.119)

is actually making things worse for abductees.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:13.280)

There's very little that they seem to have agreement on, other than don't get vaccinated.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:17.360)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:18.360)

Great.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:19.360)

Good way to come together on the right issue there.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:22.000)

But I don't know if I can find any evidence of an actual public feud between the two.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:26.679)

I think that Dolores Cannon seems like a woman who wouldn't stoop to that.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:30.159)

And I don't know if I've seen too many examples of Carrie directly attacking someone unless

Unknown Speaker (00:43:34.840)

she perceived them to be attacking her, as is in the case with Kevin Moore currently.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:40.320)

It would make my theory a lot simpler if I could point to a long-standing flame war between

Unknown Speaker (00:43:46.880)

them, but I don't think that that's ever happened.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:49.619)

It seems like this is a case where there are two camps, the Cannon side and the Camelot

Unknown Speaker (00:43:54.920)

side.

Unknown Speaker (00:43:55.920)

They're just ideological rivals vying for position in the paranormal New Age community.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:01.280)

Cannon's work reflects a message of hope, of the New Age ideals, of human evolution

Unknown Speaker (00:44:05.840)

and expansion of consciousness.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:07.800)

Ozark Mountain Publishing puts out books with titles like Dance of Heavenly Bliss, Heaven

Unknown Speaker (00:44:13.000)

Here on Earth, and Reconnecting to the Earth.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:16.679)

Scrolling through their catalog, it's more or less devoid of fear, selling the audience

Unknown Speaker (00:44:20.760)

instead on messages of hope.

Unknown Speaker (00:44:23.159)

Conversely, everything the Camelot puts out provides the eldritch glimpse into a secret

Unknown Speaker (00:44:27.800)

world of space combat, secret technology being hidden from humans for evil reasons, and grand

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nefarious conspiracies.

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Every natural disaster is just aliens eating people that the government needs to cover

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up.

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Wars, their attempts to stop alien invasions coming through Stargates, secretly bombing

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the Stargates.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We're dealing with Space Marianne Williamson versus Space Trump.

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That's what we're... That's our worldview, ideological divide here.

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I didn't want to let that commercial from 2013 play all the way.

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It was for Marianne Williamson?

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No, but in Kevin's list of people he's interviewed, one of them was Marianne Williamson.

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Of course it is.

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Of course it is.

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I couldn't find that on his YouTube page, but we would have covered it already.

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Also to Kerry's worldview, human tragedies that happen, like mass shootings and things.

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Those are false flags being carried out by the reptilian bloodlines that have conquered

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the planet already through subterfuge.

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Everything is fear.

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Anyone who's spent any time trafficking in conspiracy and paranormal message boards or

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communities understands that these are kind of the two poles in that world.

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That kind of makes sense.

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It's a perspective thing.

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How you could see the same glass as half full or half empty, but just applied to secret

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alien shit and all that.

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It's kind of...

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Yeah, except the glass is fucking fictional.

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That's the situation.

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Yeah, but so is that hypothetical glass we always talk about.

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There we go.

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Dolores Cannon passed away in 2014 and her daughter Julia Cannon took over her work.

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I'm pretty sure that Julia was involved in maybe even running Ozark Mountain Publishing

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previous to that point, but I can't say for sure because her LinkedIn page doesn't have

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any dates on it.

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I assume Dolores was very old, like 80s, something like that.

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Yeah, but some of the videos that you can find pretty close to her passing were... She's

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quite lucid.

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Oh, no.

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I'm not saying that.

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She's old.

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You're 84 and your daughter is just going to run the day-to-day operations.

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You still make some interviews.

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I would assume so.

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You do that kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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Kevin has known both Dolores and her daughter Julia throughout his career in the paranormal

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community.

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The first interview he had with Dolores was posted on his channel on December 3rd, 2011

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and he has interviews with Julia going back to 2013.

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I was wondering about this because there seems to be a shift in the present.

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He's doing these interviews with these time traveler people and then now he's calling

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for... We've got to call out the frauds in our community.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I was wondering if it's possible that there is anything to do with Julia.

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If he's had this patron over the years in the Ozark Mountain Publishing and he's doing

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what he's doing in partnership with them, then Dolores passes away, Julia comes around

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and maybe she hates Carrie.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:26.559)

Okay.

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So Julia is officially a loose cannon.

Unknown Speaker (00:47:32.679)

I don't... I like your pun but no, that was just a thought that I had.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so what I wanted to do was I wanted to check in with an interview that he did with

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Julia.

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Of course.

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So I found this one here from July 26th, 2018.

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This is mere months before he announces his Mark Richards documentary.

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So I figured like if there are going to be some clues, you might think you'd find them

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in here.

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And so in this first clip, Kevin's talking to Julia and I feel like he's asking her about

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what her mother would think about the state of the paranormal community.

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Okay, okay.

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You know, the era that your mom did most of her work sort of, you know, well, it started

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off for... It was many years but I was going to... Let's actually move it to the era of

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the mid-2000s, right?

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Maybe 2005.

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I think it was still pretty grounded information that was out there.

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The UFO field was quite grounded.

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This field was definitely a level that people could come to and it wasn't too far out there

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in some ways, right?

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My point is right now it just feels that our community is at a time of such division, of

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such extremes, and of such almost falling apart in some respects.

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I wonder what mom would think of what was going on right now.

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I think she would think it's just right on.

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You know, this is how it's supposed to be and as it keeps growing... I mean, they showed

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me a long time ago that as it grows, I mean, for a while it's like this and they said as

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the one keeps growing it's going to grow like this.

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So she's doing gestures with her hands of like, you think it's going to grow straight

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like a tree, like a trunk, but it's actually growing as two separate branches.

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Oh, okay.

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She has almost like a quesadilla attitude towards Kevin's being like, well, we've got

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all this bullshit going on.

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Well, any movement that sufficiently grows is going to splinter off into a series of

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different groups is her basic kind of thrust there.

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So if it's inevitable, why are you going to be worried about it?

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Yeah, yeah.

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That doesn't feel like what you'd expect if my theory was to hold.

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Yeah, no.

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She doesn't seem to be bothered in the slightest by the fact that like, wow, there's this,

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but there's also this.

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Yeah, and she didn't even end it with like, eh, you know, it grows into different directions.

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By the way, fuck Carrie Cassidy.

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But over here on this branch is... Yeah.

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That's weird.

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Yeah.

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So Kevin tries to regroup a little bit here and reframe what he's asking about.

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It's almost like, right, that you, you know, the UFO subjects with your mom and her work

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always connected to consciousness.

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She was a very early pioneer in promoting that, right?

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And that's exactly where a lot of the, you know, you asked like some very nuts and bolts

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at Stan and Freeman now, right?

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He'll say, absolutely, it's all about consciousness, right?

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That's where the work's gone.

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Yeah.

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And so now we've got the consciousness on one side, which is the field that I've loved

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for so long, the UFO field on the other side, which I've loved for so long.

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And there's, you know, there's a bridge of the, there's a gap in the connect, there's

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a connection between them both, right?

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But as you said there, they've gone this far out.

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We know when we've got, you know, secret space program whistleblowers, yeah, coming out from

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all, all angles and the, the stories that they're telling and the division in the community

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that that causes and, and I, there's also cult-like practices going on in this community

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as well right now, which is very sad to have to say, and I, I, I've just never seen it

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so divided.

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Well, and I think that's another thing that's, you know, that's, I've just recently was watching

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a video and they were just talking about how right now it's just been all the light is

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just shining.

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See, this stuff has always been there and it's just the light is just shining brighter

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and brighter.

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It's just exposing all these things.

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That's all it is.

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And so as it's exposing now we're just aware of it.

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That's all it is.

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So now it's choices that, what are you going to do about it?

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You know, are you going to, uh, you're, you're going to make judgements and you're going

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to condemn and you're going to, you know, it's, you know, it's just exposing and now

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it's choices.

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See that it's all being exposed and now by media, this is wonderful.

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True.

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Now, now people know about it because before they were all hidden and secret, now that

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can't be secret anymore.

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She seems very Zen about, uh, I kind of like her vibe.

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Yeah.

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I'm liking her vibe.

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I won't.

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I can't lie.

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I came away from this liking Julia.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think she's doing all right.

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Yeah.

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Because Kevin's like, he's like, ah, look at this bullshit.

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It's always been there, you know, to get information out and people, you know, the light is shining

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on this and they can't hide certain things anymore.

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And it's great that people are talking about it, but she does not seem motivated in any

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way to be like to do anything, crush these people.

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There's no ruthlessness.

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There's no like vindictive element.

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There's nothing.

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It's just, it's just kind of like, yeah, what do you get?

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Now we, you know, you get through life, there's more information and then you have choices.

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I don't, I don't know.

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It's, it's insane.

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She's very, that could be the new agey version of a threat right there that like, you know,

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we have choices.

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We have things that we can do now.

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We have to choose to crush the, the dumdums over there.

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I think that that's a giant leap, but I don't think it's impossible.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No, she's, she almost has in my mind that, uh, if you remember that Phil Hartman sketch

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on SNL where he was playing Reagan and he was like, oh yes, hello little girl and all

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of this.

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And then she leaves and he's like, all right, back to work assholes.

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Like that kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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I understand that that image can come up in your head, but I, I would need, and I admittedly

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have not done like tons of research on Julia cannon, but I would need a bit more information

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about her to be like, she's secretly like a, I'm going to go with a mastermind behind

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the whole thing.

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Possibly.

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So, um, Kevin gets to complaining some more and Julia is diffusing it more when rubbish

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does come across our table or purposeful disinformation that people feel as though it's real, right?

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And they're going along with it.

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And it's like, where has people's discernment gone?

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God, I hate that word.

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It's almost like the conspiracy has infiltrated the spiritual a little bit.

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That's how I feel.

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Right.

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Well, people have to just learn to, you know, you've got to think with your own mind and

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you've got to, you know, come on, don't just listen to everything that comes along.

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That is, that is what's going on though.

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As a person that's in this community right now, there are people gaining a lot of power

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in this field who are mixing the spiritual with conspiracy, which is a fine, do what

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you want to do.

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But then as soon as you start to say, hang on a minute, there's gotta be discernment

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here.

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We're not, we're getting ungrounded here completely.

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Then they are, they're all turning against you as soon as you do that.

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And it's like, wow.

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It's probably worth noting that this conversation with Julia was posted to Kevin's YouTube page

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about two months after he had that interview with Carrie Cassidy, where he tried to ask

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her about inconsistencies and Mark Richard story.

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And she got pretty mad at him when he's talking about people turning on you, when you ask

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for better discernment, he's absolutely talking about that conversation.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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He's very clearly talking about Carrie.

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Gotcha.

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You know what he said?

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Like we've got these secret space program was a little bit too obvious.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He's just complaining about Carrie Cassidy and, uh, and project Camelot and Julia's responses

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as like, well, people have got to think for themselves.

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There's almost, and again, like in the same way that Dolores had a maternal quality to

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carry, Julia has a bit of a maternal thing going on here with Kevin or it's like, quit

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whining you crying teenager, you're going to, you're going to grow older than this.

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It's going to, you're going to get past it.

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You'll have some wisdom that'll come from recognizing that people have choices and sure

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there's more information and they can take that information and make the choice that

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they need to make with it.

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That's what they do.

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Yeah.

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We're, we're in the open UFO community.

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We don't bitch about people because we're all lying.

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You're the worst.

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He's the worst.

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I hate him so much.

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He's the worst.

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He's a shitty interviewer.

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Listening to him.

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Talk sucks.

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Yeah.

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Every time he tries to ask a question, he winds up asking four questions and then not

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being interested in the answer to any of them.

Unknown Speaker (00:56:33.199)

He's a good channeler though.

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I know that from the spirits that he channels, they have told me he's very good at it.

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So the spirits he channels have made it very clear how channeling he is.

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Yeah.

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In the next clip, uh, Kevin expresses shock that some of his audience is interested in

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project Camelot, which I would say, Ooh, wow.

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I was shocked at where some of my audience was recently.

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I did not know that we were, we, my, myself and my audience were, were actually dividing

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so much in, in, in how we felt about things.

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Wow.

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Well, then that might be an indicator right there to see there again, that's that light.

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Yeah.

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Just shine the light on it and we'll see what happens.

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And I think that, and I'm going to do that.

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My next documentary is going to, um, not shock a lot of, well, yeah, actually probably will

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do actually my, my next, I, I, I've, I've had to become a, a, a, a, a journalist now

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and it's now, if I'm unhappy with what's going on in my field, then, then, then, then I think

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I've got to do something about that myself and actually shine some light and help people

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see, not attack people, but help people see that actually, uh, let's look at the stories

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of some people and let's, let's look at where the evidence is.

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And I never thought I'd be going down that road.

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So I mean, there, I think you, you see that, uh, Kevin's deciding to be the change he wishes

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to see in the world.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I got to do it.

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Nope.

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I got a full.

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Yeah.

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But it still seems weirdly personal.

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It is.

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Is it just that he, is it just that she didn't like, she didn't like his questions.

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So now he's like, I'm going to fucking take her down then.

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That's what it has to be.

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Cause he's interviewed her in the past.

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He's interviewed Joanne Richards about Mark Richards in the past.

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He has no standards that he upholds like, like it was very recent to this that he talked

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to those time travelers.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So like people putting misinformation out seems to bother him generally.

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I don't know.

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It has to just be personal.

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I think he just got annoyed with her and then he's going to God, he's the worst dad.

Unknown Speaker (00:58:50.559)

Well this is a petty grudge, but maybe or maybe not because I think in this next clip

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we get something that I think is crucial, uh, in terms of understanding what's going

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on here.

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Unfortunately, these areas, like you said, they've just been prime, prime fields for,

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you know, for people to just come in and do all kinds of damage and junk in, you know,

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and just put all this, this stuff in, put so much fear, so much fear.

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And it's just, that's all right.

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You know that, and that's, that's near and dear to my heart when people play with fear.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:33.320)

No.

Unknown Speaker (00:59:34.320)

Do you know what, Julia, Julia, let me just say something to you that you've hit the nail

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on the head there.

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That is it.

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I'm going to use the words fear porn.

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There is so much fear porn out there right now, right in this field.

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So I think that, uh, Julia again is, is nailing it on some, uh, uh, in some sense, like she's

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saying, you know, what you're seeing is this world that we traffic in is, it's been primed

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for people to be bad actors.

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So obviously there's going to be some negative things.

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And then they nail down that like, ah, what it is is fear.

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The fear is the bad thing.

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They're creating fear in people in order to move whatever.

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Yeah.

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She sounds wildly self aware for somebody who believes that there are a lot of alien

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abductions going on and people can't remember them cause they're drunk.

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I think I can remember them because they're a little drunk.

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Yeah.

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Um, yeah.

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I mean you would assume that she believes the same stuff as Dolores saying as she's

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her daughter and she's carried on her work.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:33.039)

I mean, yeah, not necessarily that she's her daughter, but that she's still running the

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publishing company would suggest that.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:38.920)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:39.920)

And the, I believe that she also, uh, runs the Dolores cannon, uh, hypnosis thing.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:44.360)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (01:00:45.360)

Well then yeah.

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So yeah, you'd have to assume there's overlap there.

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And again, Kevin just really is trying to talk himself into this and they're like, you

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just can't do nothing.

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He's psyching himself up and he wants her to give him the go ahead.

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Yeah.

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Almost like he's begging for, um, approval and, uh, I want to go out tonight, mom, can

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I go out tonight?

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Can I go out tonight?

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So much permission as it is like, I mean, he started when they were talking about like,

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what would your mom think of this?

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It's almost like looking for the blessing of Dolores from beyond the grave.

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Um, but he can't just do nothing.

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All I ever wanted was a truth or a truth that was at least grounded in wanting to be giving

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people their power back.

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But what's going on right now with this community, it's not about taking sides.

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It's now with something's got to people.

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You can't just sit there and do nothing and well, you can, that's okay.

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But I'm, I'm saying right now, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to do that because the

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fear has gone in and it's destroying a lot of the good work I fail.

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Good for you.

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See, that's, that's the light bringer and you see, you're, you're the casting that light.

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That's your job.

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That's why you're here.

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Well, I appreciate that.

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So I guess he's got some approval, but still, he was called the light bringer.

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This has no, I definitely has no negative connotations towards that at all.

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This still doesn't feel like direction, right?

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Like I can identify that obviously he's been in partnership with this company that's run

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by the cannon family for over six years, at least six years at this point.

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But it doesn't feel like when he's talking about what he feels drawn to do, like I've

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got to expose the project Camelot.

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Right, right, right.

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I don't feel like this would be what the interview would be like if there was an interest in

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that from the cannons, just weird.

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So in this last clip here, Kevin teases his project, which we already know what it's going

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to turn into, but he feels like he can't talk about it yet.

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And then it just, he thanks Julia for being supportive.

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We never know where we're going to be guided and it's just a matter of just, just follow

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the guidance.

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If that's what's being asked to do, then there you go.

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Yes, yes.

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That is true.

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And yep.

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And that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to do.

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And you know, I wish I could say more right now about what I'm working on.

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But all I know is that when it's finished, it's going to be at least my first bit of

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light work to shine light on this subject.

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That's what it will be.

Unknown Speaker (01:03:23.980)

Oh, I don't say it's a first, you've been doing light work for a long time.

Unknown Speaker (01:03:29.199)

Well, so have you, so have you, not just me.

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We all have.

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I mean, this is, this is what we are here for, I mean, this is our journey.

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Yes, it is.

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Yeah, it is.

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It is.

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It really is.

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So, and you know, it just surprised me that sometimes light work takes, takes form, takes

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many different forms.

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Yes, it does.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So.

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And we're not even aware of it, you know, that's just it, we have to point it out to

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each other.

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We're doing it.

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Well, that's what I like about you, right?

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I can get on here, right?

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I can, I can, I can have a little bit of a moan and scream, right, about wherever, yeah.

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And you, you, you just kind of, you levered out a bit, you know what I mean?

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And that, that's, you, you get that from your mom as well, I'm sure, I'm sure you do.

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And um, that, that's nice to have in this community that, that is, um, yeah, it is.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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That's weird.

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Wow.

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That is weird.

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I love her.

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I love her.

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She comes off quite well.

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She is killing it.

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Yeah.

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So listening to this interview with Julia Cannon, I'm left with the impression that

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she and Ozark Mountain publishing are not what's motivating Kevin to attack Carrie and

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Mark.

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She doesn't seem overly interested in Kevin's new project, like interested in a polite way,

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you know, whatever, but not overly so.

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And when he tries to complain about the schism in the UFO community, Julia tries to contextualize

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it by saying, that's how it's supposed to be.

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This is just what is, this is a part of growth.

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As humanity learns and grows, it encompasses many things, some good, some not as good.

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It just doesn't feel like she's pulling any strings here.

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This feels like it's entirely a Kevin thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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She sounds super benign and downright kind.

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And deescalating.

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Yeah.

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More than anything.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I find that fascinating.

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I entered this episode kind of thinking that we would look at this clear source of funding

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of Kevin's, this new age self-help book publisher with a polar opposite view on the paranormal

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UFO world from Carrie's.

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And I would come away with the sense that they were behind this documentary as a crass

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business move, but I don't feel that way now.

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I think this is actually a thing that's ideological, but we've been missing the forest for the

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trees when we were trying to figure out what the ideology was up till this point.

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Before, I'd heard Kevin talk about how this misinformation in the community was, you know,

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it's just, uh, he wanted, he wanted better discernment, you know, I heard him talk about

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that stuff and I interpreted it too literally.

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I thought he was offended by people being full of shit.

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And that was what he wanted to push back against.

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That's why it was absurd that he could present himself that way and then do an interview

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with the fake time travel people.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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That's why it's comical that he would pretend to care about rigorous standards of proof

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while channeling aliens and off-world intelligences.

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But I had it wrong.

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It's about fear.

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Kevin doesn't have a problem with the fact that Carrie can't prove a damn thing she says

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because he can't prove anything he says either.

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It's not about research.

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The issue is that Carrie and project Camelot are using fear as the primary element of their

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content.

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Whereas what rings true to him about the universe is messages of hope and love.

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He comes from the cannon school.

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They've been his patron for years now.

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And obviously he looks up to Dolores quite a bit, even seemingly trying to ask for the

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daughter's blessing when he's embarking on this new project.

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His ideological problem with Mark and Carrie is rooted in this dichotomy of stressing fear

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or stressing hope.

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But he's being dishonest about that.

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He's presenting things as being about how Carrie doesn't do her due diligence about

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the guest she has on, as he expresses in the video that he put out when he was explaining

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his purpose.

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This is the first docu-series of its kind looking into frauds in the UFO and alternative

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communities that I represent as well.

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Can't think of any other documentaries about frauds in the UFO community.

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Is not only is it damaging to credible researchers, but it's also damaging to people's awakening.

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When people are trying to explore the idea that there's a greater reality, and when it's

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met with misinformation and disinformation, that's something that I can't stand.

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So I've made it my calling right now, or part of my calling, to show the opposite side of

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some of these so-called whistleblowers.

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So the way he's framing this is like exposing frauds in the community that do a disservice

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to legitimate researchers.

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He presents it like that so much, but underneath it, I don't believe that's the case.

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I think it's that he resents that they're not on the canon side of things, because he

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resonates more with the New Agey stuff, whereas Carrie is more into the secret space program

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and the holographic medbeds and super soldiers of it all.

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There are two sides of this thing, much like Julia was expressing, these two branches coming

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off the trunk as things grow.

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As the community grows, obviously there's going to be these different offshoots, and

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Kevin can't handle that.

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He can't stand it.

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He sensed rejection from that side of things for asking questions.

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There you go.

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Yeah.

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I don't think he's ideologically against it.

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No, I think he is.

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I think in the general sense, yes, I don't think he is above disregarding his ideology.

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If Carrie likes him a lot, I think his ideology kicks in real hard whenever somebody doesn't

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like him.

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But if you take a closer examination of the videos that he puts out on his channel, you

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will see a massive erring on the side of these messages of hope, these non-fear-based messages.

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It's clear that his body of work does lean towards that side.

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There is a clear ideological distinction.

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That is interesting.

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You've reframed it.

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Obviously I took it mind-numbingly literally, the idea of it's about research and shit like

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that.

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It seems so incongruous.

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That's how we would think about it.

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If you say you're trying to debunk things and you are, then you have to of course look

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back at yourself and think, remove the splinter from your eye, et cetera.

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But man, that's fun.

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That's interesting.

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But that's how you can present it as I'm exposing frauds and not get into the fact that you

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have no proof of anything you're talking about.

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It's because what the exposure is really deep down on a visceral emotional level, it's the

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they use fear, I use hope, more or less.

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The other thing too, you can't get away from it, is there is clearly a personal thing here.

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He has said in some of those things that we've covered, I'm going to make more documentaries

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in the future, but these ones about Carrie, Mark, and Simon Parks, they're more personal.

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They're based in something that he's mad about.

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I feel like I have a better understanding of where Kevin's coming from now, but I still

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think he's an asshole.

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He explicitly has said, when he's talking to Julia, that his concern is that there's

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fear porn and negativity dividing the UFO community, and it's not about consciousness

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enough, where he thinks that that's the root of all this stuff.

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But then when he's trying to sell his documentary, he's pushing it as an expose about frauds.

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When he's talking to Julia, he says he's not attacking Carrie, or the Richardses, Mark

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and Joanne, but in his promotional videos, he fucking taunts Joanne by threatening to

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expose details about her previous marriages.

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This is bullshit.

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You can't behave that way and pretend that you're like, I'm not going to go about attacking

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people and then attack them.

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You can't pretend that this is about love and fear, the splitting of the UFO community,

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and then sell it as they're guests.

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It's so dishonest.

Unknown Speaker (01:11:25.159)

Yeah, it is, but at the same time, I don't think he could actually be honest with Julia.

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I don't think anybody could.

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If Julia's talking to me, I'm going to be like, I'm going to say the nicest possible

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things that I can, and then deep down inside, I'm going to be filled with rage and hatred.

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But to her, I'm going to be like, you know what, you're absolutely right.

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We should forgive everybody, and we should all do the stuff.

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When I set out to do this, or this episode in particular, it was looking into that element

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of this that I think was a dangling thread, trying to figure out why Kevin did this.

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And the question of, do you think it has anything to do with his sponsor?

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And at the end of this, I feel pretty confident that this is not a follow the money situation.

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I really do too.

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I think it's a Kevin Moore is an asshole situation.

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Also, I feel like if I'm ever mad, I want to call Julia and I'm sure she'll be able

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to talk me down.

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You can try an email or see if you can get a consult.

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That sounds like a great idea.

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But Jordan, no matter what, no matter how many times Kevin wants to say that he wants

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good research in the UFO community, he's also a guy who runs a psychic hotline and with

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a straight up face, a serious look on his face, did this.

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He doesn't need to change his voice or act in a different way.

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Great.

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So do better research on that.

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He's not a very good impressionist.

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He does a good Jack Nicholson.

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Have you heard of Maurice LaMarche?

Unknown Speaker (01:13:00.079)

Once Jack Nicholson dies, you will channel him and you can handle that channeling.

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I also don't do good voices.

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I like that.

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I like that.

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I think that's a good Nicholson.

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So anyway, I needed something that interested me a little bit to really get the juices going

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after that disappointing chunk of listening to Alex.

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Got to get out of the present day, do a little wacky Wednesday thing.

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And one of the things that was really sticking in my craw was that question of the money

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and looking into that a little bit more.

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And while I think it's fascinating that this is clearly an organization, the Ozark Mountain

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publishing, and Dolores Cannon, it's clearly an opposing worldview of the space nonsense

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weirdos.

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And it's interesting that they have been funding Kevin for as long as they have.

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But I don't know if that's related.

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I don't think it is.

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I still have no concrete answer as to why he's doing this that doesn't go back to ideological

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opposition of him being a part of that camp that is opposite to Project Camelot's camp

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and him being mad.

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This is really good for me because in all of our Project Camelot excursions, I really

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never even thought about the new agey wing of that whole UFO community.

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I've always been in this space of like my viewpoint on that UFO community is there's

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a guy with a telescope, you know, like that kind of thing is so broad.

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That's where it's always been in my mind.

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So this is really interesting.

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There's the new agey side.

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There's the hard sci-fi side, which you might like more, which is more about like the machines

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of it.

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Can't go north.

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How does that UFO fly?

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Well, actually.

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What do you use?

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A combustion engine?

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A little batter, an anti-batter when you have a hundred percent burn.

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That's not actually true.

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They fly with their minds.

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We all know that.

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Ah, damn it.

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So anyway, we'll be back on Friday with a non-space episode, but until then we have

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a website.

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We do.

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It's knowledgefight.com.

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We're also on Twitter.

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We are on Twitter.

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It's at knowledge underscore fight and that go to bed Jordan.

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And on Facebook, we are, I did a Yoda there.

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You did a baby Yoda.

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And then if you would like to download the show, go to iTunes, share, tell other people,

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leave a review.

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All that stuff.

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I am told helps.

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Yes.

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Um, we'll be back, but until then I'm Neo I'm Leo I'm DZX Clark.

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I do not have to change my voice.

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Andy in Kansas.

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You're on the air.

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Thanks for holding.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:40.279)

Hello Alex.

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I'm a first time caller.

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I'm a huge fan.

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I love your work.

Unknown Speaker (01:15:44.279)

I love you.