View source for Transcript/894: Chatting With Brian Stelter

{{DEFAULTSORT:
    #_TRANSCRIPT_0894:Chatting With Brian Stelter
}}{{Transcript
    | title         = [[894: Chatting With Brian Stelter]]
    | caption       = [https://knowledgefight.libsyn.com/894-chatting-with-brian-stelter Listen to this episode on Libsyn]
    | episodeNumber = [[894: Chatting With Brian Stelter|894]]
    | length        = 01:31:22
}}

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    | text       = This transcript was automatically generated by transcription software and likely contains many mistakes and misattributions. Please check the audio for definitive quotes, attribution, and context.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:00.000
    | text      = Red Alert!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:10.679
    | text      = N-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-knowledge fight!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:12.960
    | text      = Dan and Jordan, I am sweating!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:18.160
    | text      = Knowledgefight.com, it's time to pray!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:21.359
    | text      = I have great respect for knowledgefight!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:23.920
    | text      = Knowledgefight!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:25.120
    | text      = I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:28.960
    | text      = Knowledgefight!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:30.000
    | text      = Dan and Jordan, Knowledgefight!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:34.960
    | text      = Need, need money!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:39.280
    | text      = Andy and Kansas, Andy and, Andy, stop it!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:42.799
    | text      = Andy and, Andy and Kansas, Andy and, Andy, it's time to pray!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:47.039
    | text      = Andy and Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:49.280
    | text      = Hello Alex, I'm a first-time caller, I'm a huge fan, I love your work!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:52.960
    | text      = Knowledgefight!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:55.600
    | text      = Knowledgefight.com
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:56.799
    | text      = I love you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:00:59.280
    | text      = Hello everyone, welcome back to Knowledgefight!
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:02.399
    | text      = Today it's just me without my co-host Dan.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:05.599
    | text      = However, I am joined by the man himself, Brian Stelter!
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:13.280
    | text      = Wow.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:14.159
    | text      = Yeah, I mean, that's the only way I can say it on mic now.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:18.959
    | text      = Brian, thank you so much for joining me today, how are you?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:23.359
    | text      = I'm okay, I'm a little nervous, but I respect what y'all do, so bring it on.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:30.879
    | text      = A little nervous, that is, it is funny for me to hear somebody who was on TV for a decade
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:38.879
    | text      = being nervous about talking to a clown with a radio show that can only be found on internet.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:45.359
    | text      = Well, to be fair, I did have you on TV once, I believe.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:50.879
    | text      = Didn't we do a little TV together?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:52.640
    | text      = We did, this is the first time I'm actually seeing your face live.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:01:56.640
    | text      = To give a little behind the scenes to people, we were taken to a very small room
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:03.760
    | text      = in downtown Chicago and we looked at a camera hole, and that was our whole experience.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:09.280
    | text      = So it's fascinating, your face is real.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:12.080
    | text      = TV is weird, TV is weird in a lot of different ways for a lot of different reasons,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:16.879
    | text      = but y'all have exposed and revealed Alex Jones in a way nobody else has.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:22.639
    | text      = I think I've learned a lot from listening to your podcast.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:26.159
    | text      = For example, the episode where y'all broke down the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:29.520
    | text      = I don't know why I'm saying y'all so much, what's wrong with me today?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:32.000
    | text      = It's part of the game, this is a great place to say it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:35.919
    | text      = You can also say fuck too, I don't know if those two are the same.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:39.280
    | text      = I think it'll probably come up.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:41.759
    | text      = The episode where you all took apart Tucker Carlson's interview,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:44.719
    | text      = it wasn't an interview, Tucker Carlson's, you know, spawning.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:48.560
    | text      = Yeah, what do you describe with Alex Jones?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:52.000
    | text      = I couldn't bear to listen to the actual conversation between the two of them,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:55.280
    | text      = but I was able to experience it through you all, so thank you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:02:59.520
    | text      = It is one of the only ways that I can stomach it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:03.120
    | text      = I couldn't possibly, you know, the greatest of gifts that Dan perhaps has is his ability to endure
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:11.680
    | text      = torture beyond what anyone I think I've ever experienced.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:14.560
    | text      = So yeah, that's the first thing that we want to talk about, I suppose, is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:22.240
    | text      = in Infowars world, you are a demon, you have all kinds of crimes under your belt,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:33.599
    | text      = raging from the sex criminal type to, I believe you've eaten a baby in the past,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:41.039
    | text      = something along those lines.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:42.560
    | text      = Yeah, I don't even know. I can't even keep up with all the things he's accused me of.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:46.960
    | text      = What's your favorite thing that you've not done?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:52.000
    | text      = Okay, so I'm going to have to admit, I don't follow Alex Jones's rants about me that closely.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:03:58.719
    | text      = So I hate to disappoint the listeners.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:02.000
    | text      = I rely on you, you know, to tell me what he has said.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:07.120
    | text      = There was one though, the very famous one, the one where he accuses me of drinking children's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:11.680
    | text      = blood and running the banks, which you all have dined out on in the past,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:16.959
    | text      = which Tucker Carlson recently celebrated on his web show.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:23.600
    | text      = I will tell you, that was actually the one night during the Trump administration
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:27.839
    | text      = that my wife was worried about my line of work and was fearful about our livelihood and our life.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:35.199
    | text      = We were living in the city, we were about to have our first child,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:39.360
    | text      = and she watches this insane, unhinged rant with my smiley face plastered up on the screen.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:46.319
    | text      = And I found it rather amusing. I was trying to laugh about it, and she was freaked out.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:52.079
    | text      = And rightfully, and I totally understand why. Because little Pepe the Frog logos started
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:04:58.480
    | text      = getting sent to us in the mail. And the interesting thing about that is there was no message attached.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:04.000
    | text      = There was no threat or anything. It was just their way of saying,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:07.279
    | text      = we know where you live. Which I find to be a really interesting tactic.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:11.920
    | text      = So all the other stuff that happened, the bomb at CNN, the death threats,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:18.720
    | text      = the time that Trump tweeted about me, none of that really spooked my family.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:23.199
    | text      = But it was Alex Jones and the drink children's blood. I can't top that one as an example.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:30.319
    | text      = Right. Genuine fight or flight response tends to come out.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:35.040
    | text      = Totally. And what do you do? Well, that's my question to you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:42.240
    | text      = They don't fucking talk to us at all. No one recognizes. I want to be threatened.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:48.240
    | text      = No one has threatened my life once. It's terrifying. So what is it like?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:54.000
    | text      = You don't want this. You don't want to be called his enemy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:05:56.879
    | text      = Here's nine times out of 10. I think this is just online chaos.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:06.160
    | text      = Most of the time, almost all of the time, it is just this
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:11.360
    | text      = reality distortion field that only exists on people's computers and screens.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:15.519
    | text      = But then every so often as Oliver Darcy experience, something else that you all have covered,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:20.560
    | text      = Alex Jones will show up in person and confront you on camera in your face.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:24.560
    | text      = And so every so often the real world breaks through. It's like the internet world breaks
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:28.720
    | text      = through into the real world. And you never know when it's going to happen or if it's going to
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:31.759
    | text      = happen. It's part of the problem. Yeah. It is. It is kind of fascinating because there is so
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:37.439
    | text      = much of that online harassment. That's a joke. You know, it's, it's nothing. And you shouldn't worry
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:42.800
    | text      = about it. And the more time you focus on it, the more it's going to drive you insane. And it's
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:46.800
    | text      = nothing until it is that one time. And you didn't see it coming and you don't know who it is.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:51.759
    | text      = And, you know, and I'm not worried all the time. Right. And I'm not blaming Alex Jones for this,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:06:57.839
    | text      = but you know, I went to the flower shop one day in a town near me and this guy starts growling at
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:03.920
    | text      = me. Hey, fuck CNN. This was back when I started seeing a fuck CNN. And I couldn't tell if he
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:10.319
    | text      = worked there or if he was a customer. So I decided to leave. I just took myself out of the situation
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:16.720
    | text      = and, you know, let me say knock on wood, that that's very rare. This stuff doesn't happen every
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:21.759
    | text      = day or every month or not. No, not at all, but every, every once in a while, you know,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:27.040
    | text      = and I do think there are, there are women in this media industry who will tell you it's much uglier
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:32.560
    | text      = for them. They're, you know, I'm, I, I let me check my privilege as we talk about this,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:36.800
    | text      = you know, that the Alex Jones stuff doesn't affect me very often and is not in my face very often.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:42.319
    | text      = But yeah, every once in a while. And then of course he called up recently and we can talk
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:47.279
    | text      = about that. Well, yeah, I was at, we're going to get to that in a, in a second.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:50.639
    | text      = But can I, can I say a bigger picture though? What was he doing in that rant? Seven years ago,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:07:56.319
    | text      = he was saying, you're my enemy, right? You're my enemy. I see you. I can't, I'm not going to
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:01.120
    | text      = fake it much, but there it is. There's something really like deep and there's a deep despair to
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:09.680
    | text      = that, right? Of he is a character who has to create other characters in order to mock, destroy,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:16.639
    | text      = ridicule, whatever he does to them. Right. But I think what I learned in the Trump years as an
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:21.199
    | text      = anchor at CNN was that Brian, they're not talking about you. They're talking about a cartoon
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:26.240
    | text      = character villain they've created with your name and your face. Like, and, and I don't just mean
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:31.040
    | text      = that about Alex and made about, but Tara Carlson, Sean Hannity, you know, the, you know, these guys
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:35.200
    | text      = will come up with nicknames and fat jokes and stuff and ridicule. And I had to kind of accept
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:41.279
    | text      = that layer of removal from it because there was one night and I don't mean to like sound like the
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:46.159
    | text      = victim here or whatever, but you know, we're talking about this weird life of being in the
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:49.919
    | text      = public square and having these people send Nazi signals to your house. That's victimizing. I feel
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:08:55.679
    | text      = like it was say I'm a victim of being Nazi attacked. It was weird. Yeah. There was a
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:00.960
    | text      = night I was flying to LA. I was on a late night flight and it was coast to coast flight and I
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:07.039
    | text      = wanted to get to use the bathroom and I'm walking up to the bathroom and I see on Fox news, all the
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:12.159
    | text      = people, you know, in the rows in front of me are watching Fox and there's a segment bashing me as
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:17.200
    | text      = I'm walking up the aisle. And it was, I think it was Tucker's show. I'm pretty sure. But it might
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:21.840
    | text      = have been Sean's cause that night Tucker, Sean and Laura all did segments where they ridiculed
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:26.879
    | text      = or attacked or whatever. I can't remember what I did wrong that day or what I did right that day.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:30.639
    | text      = But three hours in a row, Brian Stelter was one of the villains. And I remember like being nervous
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:37.279
    | text      = about walking back from the bathroom, right? Like I hope none of these passengers recognize me,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:41.759
    | text      = right? This is the internet. This is fucking TV. And some of them are probably Democrats who were
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:46.559
    | text      = just hate watching Fox and that's cool. But you know, it was, and I, and I actually,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:50.720
    | text      = that was like one of the, so I mentioned the one night that it bothered my wife.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:54.240
    | text      = This plane ride was the one night that it ever really got to me. And I, I mentioned it to my
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:09:59.600
    | text      = boss, Jeff Zucker. I mentioned it in an email. We were emailing about something else. And I said
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:03.440
    | text      = like, this actually kind of sucks that this is weird. I don't like this feeling. And he said,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:07.440
    | text      = this is not hard, Brian. What's really hard is cancer. And I mean, I'm paraphrasing,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:12.240
    | text      = but I appreciated, I appreciated the reality. No, I needed the, I needed the reality check.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:18.480
    | text      = I needed to remember that it was just, it was, it was TV. Well, you can agree or disagree. I liked
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:27.679
    | text      = it as like a, as a, as a gut check. Sure, sure. But it's definitely an out of body experience
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:35.519
    | text      = when you're on a plane everywhere around you, the people are watching this like trash, these lies
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:40.080
    | text      = about you. It is a, it is a out of body experience for sure. I, what I find fascinating so much about
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:47.360
    | text      = that is that your story just now being in the clothing store is identical to an Alex lie.
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:10:55.120
    | text      = You know, Alex tells that type of story all the time. I was walking down the street and then there
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:00.240
    | text      = was this person and I tell you liberals, they're just demons. They just go, they just look at me
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:04.960
    | text      = in the eyes and go, you know, and you, you're, you're literally walking into a store and someone
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:10.159
    | text      = growls at you. Yeah. And the difference for me is that's like the only time it's ever happened,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:15.200
    | text      = right? You know, I can count on my fingers. That's why it's interesting. Like most of the time,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:21.840
    | text      = if I get recognized by a, a big MAGA person, we have a funny conversation. Like it's usually,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:28.399
    | text      = it's usually like amusing, not scary. Right. But for Alex Jones, it has to all be demonic.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:34.000
    | text      = It has to all be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is because, you know, when we describe it as,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:40.960
    | text      = uh, you know, the internet or, or their world catching up to us or breaking into the real world,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:46.320
    | text      = I think that is an example of you getting sucked into a fantasy world. Like you have suddenly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:11:53.279
    | text      = walked into a LARP that you had no idea even existed. And I find that so fascinating is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:01.279
    | text      = I had to realize early, like, again, it was, this is in the Trump years and this was my education
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:05.360
    | text      = about this. And now it, you know, now we're kind of still in the Trump years. Um, that like, let
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:12.080
    | text      = me take the afternoon. Yeah. The afternoon that the Trump like randomly tweeted about me and I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:19.279
    | text      = didn't hear from a single friend of mine. I didn't have a single family member call me. I'm not that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:24.480
    | text      = much of a, like I have friends. Like I'm not, I am a social person. It's just that nobody in my
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:30.480
    | text      = world, like in my reality, cared what Donald Trump was tweeting, right? Like it was so removed from
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:37.519
    | text      = their daily existence. Why would they care that the president's calling this reporter a laptop
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:42.000
    | text      = dog? You know? Um, and, and then, so you go on Twitter and you look at the replies and there's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:46.559
    | text      = thousands of trolls, you know, or, or whatever they are just eating it up and having fun and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:50.559
    | text      = going, going hog wild. But out in my, in my sphere, it was like it never happened. And it's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:12:56.399
    | text      = I'm really grateful for that perspective to have that perspective. Yeah. Uh, cause I think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:00.960
    | text      = otherwise it would probably get to me more than it does. Yeah. That's, that's fascinating. I wonder
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:06.399
    | text      = you could make the case though. You can make the case, Jordan, that I don't take it seriously
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:10.000
    | text      = enough. Sure. Well, I mean, all right. So imagine, imagine you're, uh, let's call it a straight white
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:18.720
    | text      = guy in 1770, uh, 1792 or so, right? Thomas Jefferson's talking shit about you as you're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:27.120
    | text      = a newspaper writer. Can you imagine? So you're in the media, right? And the, the president of the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:32.879
    | text      = United States is talking shit about you. But really one thing we don't think about is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:38.639
    | text      = nobody had any fucking clue. It was only like 30 guys who were allowed to even participate in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:44.720
    | text      = reading about this shit, you know? So it's an interesting, it's an interesting kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:51.600
    | text      = reflection of that in the present tense, except everybody halfway knows about it. It's very
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:13:57.360
    | text      = strange. Yes. And it's, so it becomes like a background music, um, to one's existence. Um,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:05.200
    | text      = in a way that's like, I find unsettling. I also, sometimes you realize what's the, what's the saying
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:10.559
    | text      = about, um, now I'm blanking on so embarrassing on a podcast. Like, Oh, I'm taking up space in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:17.279
    | text      = your head. Like living, living first time for everything. Uh, no living rent free, living rent
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:23.679
    | text      = free in one's head. That's so I get the sense. I might be wrong about this, that Alex, for example,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:29.120
    | text      = might care more about me than I care about him. Right. So not only do we, we come at it from
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:33.440
    | text      = different angles, I come at this as a reporter interested in him as a story, a subject, a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:38.639
    | text      = character, a danger. Um, he comes toward me as, um, using me as a villain, thinking that I'm part
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:45.679
    | text      = of this evil global conspiracy. Oh, we should talk about Davos. I think he came after me when
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:49.840
    | text      = I went to Davos last year too. Um, and, and I get all the facts wrong, of course. So not only did
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:14:56.000
    | text      = we come up from different angles, but I also like, I'm not as interested in him. And then the night
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:01.200
    | text      = that he drunk dials me and, and, and, you know, I guess prank calls me and then goes on Tucker's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:05.120
    | text      = show and talks about it and it becomes like, yeah, they like used it to promote their shop.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:10.080
    | text      = Like they use it like to promote his comeback as if like, wow, like Brian's up. And I'm like, who,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:15.440
    | text      = I didn't even bother, you know, it, it's just interesting the difference between like, yeah,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:20.799
    | text      = that I guess, I guess in my head, he's just a supporting actor. Right. And in his head,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:27.519
    | text      = I'm like one of his stars. Oh, right. That's interesting because I also think that you have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:34.559
    | text      = the same perspective in a sense, because Alex Jones isn't real to you, you know, uh, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:40.960
    | text      = Alex Jones is, is a character in the same way that you're not real to Alex. You're a character.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:46.480
    | text      = Um, and I kind of find that to be a strange place. And one, I want you to kind of see if there's a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:53.679
    | text      = different experience for, because we're not characters. Uh, we're, we're completely separate.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:15:59.919
    | text      = You know, we're, we're in the, we're in the crowd. We're henchmen, essentially, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:04.559
    | text      = there's no respect. There's no character building between the two of us, but that's probably cause
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:10.879
    | text      = he's scared of you. Like he's, I, if I were him, I would never want to mention knowledge fight
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:15.759
    | text      = because it actually undermines what I do. Sure. Takes apart. It takes apart the entire business
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:23.600
    | text      = and brand. I, I, I think that's, I think that would be how it would go for like a normal human
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:30.639
    | text      = being and stuff. I think it genuinely, I think we just make him feel bad. I feel like he can't like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:37.360
    | text      = he can't find a way to make himself, uh, feel good about what he does if he listens to our show.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:42.159
    | text      = So he doesn't tell people about it. Like for, for you, whenever he gets pushback from you and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:47.440
    | text      = when Stelter says Alex Jones did an evil thing, you know, he can be like, yes, the establishment
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:16:54.240
    | text      = media is coming out. Right. Right. CNN knows what we're up to. They're trying to take us down person.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:01.440
    | text      = Right. Two asshole comedians from Chicago have weirdly spent the past seven years studying me.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:08.240
    | text      = That sounds like I'm a creep. You know, I don't want to feel like that. I totally get why he
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:13.200
    | text      = doesn't talk about us. We're stalkers. Why would you talk about your stalker makes perfect sense.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:18.799
    | text      = I don't think you're stalkers, but I hear your, I take your point, but you're a hundred percent
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:22.720
    | text      = right. And this is something that, you know, this was true about Trump also. And what I think this
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:27.279
    | text      = was a no win and is a no win situation for mainstream media fact checking Trump only fact
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:34.240
    | text      = checking Trump does many things. It's important to fact check Trump. It's not an option not to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:38.240
    | text      = factor Trump, but those fact checks are sometimes fuel for him to say to his voters that the media
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:44.079
    | text      = doesn't like you, which is false, but you know, that's the story he can tell. And the same thing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:48.880
    | text      = with Alex Jones, the coverage from CNN. And this is where being a media reporter gets all sorts of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:17:55.119
    | text      = wacky and, and, and, you know, convoluted because it's, you are hoping you're trying and you hope
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:01.599
    | text      = you're shining a light and exposing how the world works or doesn't work. But in so doing you might
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:06.640
    | text      = be raising the rate, raising more awareness of these individuals. Right. And so this,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:14.640
    | text      = that kind of paradox, or if that's what you want to call it, let's call it that has kind of been
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:22.079
    | text      = around. I mean, the thing about it is that it's less a paradox and more a Gordian not so much as
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:28.240
    | text      = like, Oh, well the mainstream media can't exist in the form. It does like, it just has to go
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:35.839
    | text      = and be right there. There is no, yeah, right. Yeah. There's no way to have a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:41.759
    | text      = billionaire own the Washington post and then have just by virtue of a billionaire owning it,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:47.119
    | text      = it doesn't even matter if he touches it. What matters is that he owns it, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:51.920
    | text      = and that can never be undone. I don't know. What's the, what's the insinuation? Well,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:18:58.880
    | text      = the implication is that no matter what happens, it's just a business. So
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:07.839
    | text      = the business is what will be sold or dismantled. It doesn't matter how good the work you do is,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:13.039
    | text      = which is fantastic. Tons of people are fantastic. And I don't think that they are in there making
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:18.240
    | text      = editorial decisions for people. That's not the case at all. It's simply that if you can destroy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:24.480
    | text      = something, then there will always be the inherent fear of being destroyed by that person. And that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:31.359
    | text      = is just something that you carry with you, whether you can acknowledge it or not, because it is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:35.920
    | text      = always there. How many people have been laid off in media in the past 30 days? You know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:42.799
    | text      = right. It's never ended. There's always going to be that threat. And the more everybody in the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:49.519
    | text      = media hears about that threat, the more it's going to be a, you know, oh, we're going to keep my job
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:19:55.440
    | text      = somehow. It's just part of the game, which is how we get to Fox news and network of lies, which
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:05.119
    | text      = for the people who could see this on the video, you have the cover directly behind you. It's a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:11.920
    | text      = very delightful cover. Yeah, there we go. There's another one. And in it, you start with, I suppose,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:20.960
    | text      = was it the triple C's? The three forms of accountability, which are civil, criminal,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:27.519
    | text      = and then canceling, I believe was the third one, right? And Tucker Carlson was literally canceled.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:33.279
    | text      = It was not cancel culture, right? It was cancel the show, but yes. Right. So I want to talk about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:40.160
    | text      = how effective those are in your estimation of, of the Fox news kind of verdict. Like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:48.960
    | text      = is anything, has anyone really been held accountable? Is anything going to change
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:20:53.759
    | text      = at the network in, in real focus? Right. Well, I mean, Fox news is not going to magically turn
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:02.799
    | text      = into a mainstream news network. No, that's not going to happen. Fox is always going to be more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:11.519
    | text      = anti-Democrat than it is anything else. I view it as even more than a right wing or pro Republican
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:18.559
    | text      = channel. It's an anti-Democrat machine. It exists to try to defeat the left, whatever it thinks the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:23.920
    | text      = left is. And that's not going to change as well as resolve these lawsuits, but around the edges,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:28.559
    | text      = yes, they have had to make changes. And, and the amount of money they had to pay dominion is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:35.519
    | text      = extraordinary. Even for a publicly traded big company like Fox corporation. Sure. They're in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:40.640
    | text      = about a billion dollars. They're almost up there. They are approaching a billion dollars total in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:45.119
    | text      = settlements as a result of Trump's election lies and smart Matic is still suing their shareholder
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:51.519
    | text      = lawsuits. So the, the toll, the financial toll is enough to be actual accountability.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:21:57.920
    | text      = Like it actually is a form of accountability, but whether that causes changes, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:05.119
    | text      = I think that's kind of the question, isn't it? What is accountability if it doesn't cause change?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:10.400
    | text      = I mean, let's, let's fast forward to November of 2024. Donald Trump has lost.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:18.079
    | text      = I was like, wait, where are we in the book? Okay. He has lost, let's say he's lost again to Biden.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:24.400
    | text      = Yeah. Let's say it was, it was close but clear that he lost and he starts lying about it again.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:31.200
    | text      = Let's say that he encourages his supporters to to protest to have a, to have a wild event. The way
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:38.880
    | text      = he said with January six would be what does Fox do in that scenario? And I think the answer to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:44.000
    | text      = that hypothetical is Fox does not defame specific voting companies. Like if you, if you go on the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:51.519
    | text      = if you're booked on Fox in November of 2024, when Donald Trump, if Donald Trump loses again,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:56.160
    | text      = if you start saying dominion did it, like you're going to be cut off, like you're going to be,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:22:59.839
    | text      = you're not going to be booked again. So, right. So in that very narrow sense,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:03.680
    | text      = something will have changed. There will be specific companies that you're not allowed to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:08.400
    | text      = defame on Fox in 2024. It might not be very satisfying to your listeners. Yeah.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:17.039
    | text      = Now I do think around the edges also there, there might be a little more news and maybe a little bit
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:25.359
    | text      = less propaganda because there's going to be this increased attention on how does Fox play it? How
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:32.400
    | text      = does Fox handle it? Right. And so in the scenario I just described, if Trump loses again, Fox will
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:36.880
    | text      = be torn once again, between Trump and the truth, same problem they had in 2020, same problem they
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:42.240
    | text      = had basically every day, Trump or the truth, Trump or the truth. And they, they try to side with Trump,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:47.279
    | text      = but it gets them into financial and legal trouble and costs them a lot of money. So,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:51.200
    | text      = you know, we're going to see a version of this play out again this year, I guess is the answer.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:23:55.599
    | text      = Right. I suppose, I suppose the interesting question there is you know, based upon the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:02.240
    | text      = the book going through all of the internal communications and all of that stuff that you've
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:07.039
    | text      = put together, I I'm wondering functionally what the difference between Fox news as it stands and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:16.400
    | text      = like, you know, fucking Himmler, like what is the difference there in terms of being a functional
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:21.759
    | text      = mouthpiece for fascism? Um, so I'm not, uh, I'm not there on the F word yet. Uh, tell me, tell me
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:32.000
    | text      = why I should be there. Tell me, tell me, tell me where I should be. Well, if you are part of the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:39.200
    | text      = laundering chain and that doesn't mean, you know, like first off we've got Tucker on there. Uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:45.599
    | text      = so Tucker is gone definitively, but my question is if Trump wins election, how fast does trucker
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:24:54.319
    | text      = Tucker come back to Fox news? Um, that I don't see. No, that I don't. Yeah. Well, that's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:02.000
    | text      = that's the fascism question. That's where we are running into that. That's it kind of, uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:08.640
    | text      = interesting discussion there. So if Tucker is literally saying that immigrants are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:15.680
    | text      = bugs, how is that not in the fascism conversation? Once you dehumanize immigrants and entire
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:24.079
    | text      = population, that's fascism conversation, right? At the very least.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:30.400
    | text      = Well, and certainly Trump has engaged in that for years. Sure. You know, it's disturbing to me how,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:38.400
    | text      = how nor he got up there before the Iowa caucus and said, this chance, you and Iowa, it's the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:44.160
    | text      = ultimate chance for you to, to declare victory over the perverts and the Democrat. Like he,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:50.480
    | text      = he starts naming all these groups that he considers not real Americans. And it was a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:54.640
    | text      = very explicit, you know, dehumanization call and everyone was like, yeah, it's Saturday.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:25:59.119
    | text      = And I'm thinking, no, this is not just Saturday. This is a big deal still. And I feel for the folks
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:04.880
    | text      = that I'm sure many of your listeners feel this way, where like you, you, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:09.519
    | text      = you want, you want the media collectively to somehow take Trump more seriously, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:15.359
    | text      = something along those lines. And, and, and yet, you know, we're, it's, we're,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:20.799
    | text      = we're in an environment where individual journalists will, will impress, but institutions
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:25.759
    | text      = will disappoint. The collectives will disappoint. Right. And that's for all sorts of reasons. And
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:31.680
    | text      = many of them are boring, but, and mundane. I would say, I would say the most dangerous
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:36.079
    | text      = ones are the boring and mundane ones where it's like, there's no, there's no heroic way to solve
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:40.799
    | text      = this, that you need 300 bureaucrats who all decide like, we're going to do this the right way. I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:45.759
    | text      = guess this time, you know, it's a lot harder than somebody coming in like Trump with a sword saying,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:26:51.920
    | text      = I have fixed the mainstream media. Right. The, the thing I think about Fox
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:00.000
    | text      = as it relates to all this, is it Lachlan Murdoch, his father, his, his father Rupert, the shareholders,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:06.400
    | text      = what they care about most is the, is the profit and the bottom line of Fox and keeping
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:10.559
    | text      = Fox as a, you know, strong business going forward. So to the extent that they can align with Trump,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:16.880
    | text      = but not be accused of defamation, not be found liable, not be accused of, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:24.079
    | text      = helping set a riot. Like they, they want to be, they want their hands clean while profiting from
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:29.839
    | text      = Trump and Trumpism. Right. And that's a difficult, that's a difficult thing, but fire Tara Carlson,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:35.119
    | text      = I think was even say impossible, possibly something that they would have to lie a great
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:42.079
    | text      = deal about in order to pretend to pull off. I think, you know, you're onto something,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:49.119
    | text      = but Tara Carlson's firing was Lachlan Murdoch's way of trying to make his network seem a little
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:27:55.839
    | text      = more center, right. As opposed to, as opposed to far, right. Now we can, we can dismantle all of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:01.359
    | text      = that and we can say it's all bullshit, but in his head, at least, and in his boards, in the minds of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:06.319
    | text      = his board members, they were taking Fox, which, which was with Tucker, even further out toward
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:12.079
    | text      = that Alex Jones conspiracy world and dragging it a little bit back closer to a shared reality.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:17.839
    | text      = Sure. And, you know, that's not nothing, even though it's far from what?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:24.000
    | text      = No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying that it's not nothing. That's, that's absolutely not my point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:29.839
    | text      = My, my point is that they are doing this as a Tucker right now. Right. We are civilly on the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:38.799
    | text      = hook for billions of dollars. So we get rid of Tucker. We pull it back to kind of create more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:45.839
    | text      = of a shared reality. The idea being because there's a greater amount of scrutiny. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:52.960
    | text      = What happens when that scrutiny stops for a sec? You know, like when is, if Tucker is back,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:28:57.839
    | text      = but did they change anything or were they just waiting it out? And if they're why I don't,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:03.200
    | text      = what are we doing? I don't see any world where he comes back. You don't seem to believe you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:08.319
    | text      = think he's coming back. I don't see that world. I, I I think they've shown once again, they don't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:14.000
    | text      = need any individual star that they're just as well off with Jesse waters at 8 PM and they don't need
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:19.680
    | text      = Tucker and they, and they wouldn't have him return, but I guess crazier things have happened.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:23.680
    | text      = Well, I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of the, the situation. Well, one with Tucker Lord knows
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:30.880
    | text      = the man's been killed in the media. What five times now you can't, you can't get rid of him.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:37.359
    | text      = He just keeps coming back. He just keeps coming back. That's problem number one.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:43.599
    | text      = But I mean, problem number two is just a little bit of if Trump is reelected as,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:50.079
    | text      = as you've described, you know, the business sense in one way is pull it back from the center,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:29:56.799
    | text      = so the center, right. And if Trump is reelected, is the business go farther, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:02.720
    | text      = And if the businesses go farther, right. Why not?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:07.920
    | text      = Yeah, that's, it just makes me want to ask the question, what is farther, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:13.200
    | text      = In that scenario, you know, that's, I think that's a good question too. I think that is a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:18.079
    | text      = really good question. What is pulling it back to the center? Right. What exactly are we discussing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:23.920
    | text      = in terms of what people are saying? Is it a matter of degree of language or is it a matter of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:30.960
    | text      = substance? Right. And so much of this is the, so much of what's broken, you know, relates to the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:37.039
    | text      = Republican party that acts more like a media operation than a law making operation, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:42.640
    | text      = Than a, than a legislative operation. You know, we hear so little other than, other than around
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:48.480
    | text      = immigration with Trump, trying to torpedo this border deal. So we hear, we hear so little about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:53.920
    | text      = policy out of, out of the, the the far right, but really from, from the right it's, it's become so
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:30:59.839
    | text      = much more of a television production arm, right. And so that's, that's part of what's, what's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:05.359
    | text      = makes it hard to, to, to hash this out and forecast what it would be. I think there is a, there is a world in which
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:12.880
    | text      = like, so to me, if you look at Fox corporation, Laughlin, Murdoch, Rupert, Paul Ryan, who's on the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:17.839
    | text      = board, the other board members, these are still, maybe not Laughlin, but these are still mostly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:22.720
    | text      = country club Republicans, which are still mostly tax cut Republicans. And, you know, they make all
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:27.839
    | text      = sorts of compromises, you know, to try to appeal to, to a more populist crowd, to try to appeal to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:33.119
    | text      = an anti-immigration crowd. But, you know, this is, that's, that's who, who is at on top of Fox.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:40.319
    | text      = And I think that's important and relevant when we talk about what's, what, how would they,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:44.319
    | text      = how would they approach and how would they handle Trump? I guess I hadn't thought a lot about what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:49.759
    | text      = a second term of Trump means for Fox news yet. Oh yeah. I mean, but that's because it's very hard
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:31:55.839
    | text      = for me to see him being reelected, to be honest. Really? That's bananas. That is truly bananas.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:03.200
    | text      = See, that's the other thing that I wanted to talk about. You and Alex are, let me put it this way.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:10.480
    | text      = Your world is closer to Alex's than it is to mine. If that makes sense to you. Like being in the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:19.119
    | text      = in the media, being on TV, being a character, not just in, in like the story of, of what's going on,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:27.440
    | text      = but outside. You're a main character in essence. And so is Alex worldwide. You're a main character,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:35.359
    | text      = that kind of conversation. And so I find it interesting because that kind of social strata
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:42.960
    | text      = at that level, it feels like Trump is going to lose, right? Like, do, do you have conversations
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:48.400
    | text      = regularly with people in kind of your, your area that are like, okay, well, I can't believe by that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:32:54.480
    | text      = people would vote Trump again. Right. I would, I would, I would try to frame it a little differently.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:01.200
    | text      = Cause I honestly, I haven't, I don't think I've asked more than a few people, you know, what they,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:06.240
    | text      = what they, what their gut says about what's going to happen in November. It still feels hell far
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:10.960
    | text      = far away. We don't know what the, you know, environment's going to look like financially,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:16.160
    | text      = economically, et cetera. I, but, but, but here's what, you know, but we did see at Davos recently,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:22.480
    | text      = you know, articles from the times and Axios and others saying the conventional wisdom on the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:27.359
    | text      = banker types was that Trump is coming back. And I think there, there is a certain, there is within,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:32.319
    | text      = I think some elite groups, that sense of Trump coming back, with the caveat, of course, that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:38.480
    | text      = those persons are almost always wrong out of places like Davos. Sure. Here's here's so I,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:43.599
    | text      = I guess I would frame it the following way. I look at the country in 2024 and I see a disillusioned,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:50.880
    | text      = dissatisfied, depressed electorate, right? People who, who, who don't like these choices,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:33:56.079
    | text      = who don't want to rematch, you don't want to rerun, but are sucking it up and accepting
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:00.400
    | text      = it's happening. I see a political class that thinks this is all really, really important.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:08.159
    | text      = And then virtually everybody else saying, no, no, thanks. We don't care. We're shrugging it off.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:12.880
    | text      = Right. I S I see these groups that are dedicated to defending democracy that are doing all the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:19.039
    | text      = right things. Cause they're absolutely right. There are real threats. And yet, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:23.440
    | text      = how do you get your mother to care? How do you get your, your, your neighbors to care?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:27.199
    | text      = So in an environment where it just feels like the, the, the, the electorate is disillusioned,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:31.280
    | text      = dissatisfied with that said, I think we can also say Trump, Trump doesn't have half the country.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:41.119
    | text      = He doesn't have that many fans. He has what, 60% of the Republican voter, voter electorate. He has
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:48.400
    | text      = maybe 70% on a good day. He, he has definitely for short tens of millions of MAGA loyalists,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:34:55.840
    | text      = but not even close to half the country. Now it doesn't mean you can't win, right? Because when
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:00.159
    | text      = you're faced with a red or blue choice, some people who don't like Trump are going to vote red.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:04.559
    | text      = I understand that, but I think it's important to recognize that he's coming from a place of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:08.880
    | text      = weakness right now, not a place of strength. And I think he, obviously his whole goal is to project
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:13.199
    | text      = strength. And I think it's important that we look, look at it in the, in the precedent to,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:17.599
    | text      = to point out the weaknesses that we see as well, like objective weaknesses, you know, not being
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:22.000
    | text      = able to come out of Iowa or New Hampshire with a, with a higher percentage. Now, do you think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:26.400
    | text      = I'm just, do you think I'm nuts? No, no, no, no. I'm, I'm listening intently. I I'm telling
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:32.880
    | text      = like I, I, I'll go, I'll go further then. I'll go further. And a very strong opinions,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:38.079
    | text      = but I always listen to people in order to change. I'll go further. Most Americans don't want an
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:42.079
    | text      = autocracy. They don't, they don't want, that doesn't mean they won't vote for a wannabe
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:46.320
    | text      = autocrat, right? But most Americans don't want that. They, we know that about what one in four
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:51.519
    | text      = Americans would prefer a strong man style leader. We've seen that in polling for decades. Like we
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:35:56.480
    | text      = know there's a strain of authoritarianism in America that dates back to the founding
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:00.880
    | text      = has always been a minority, but it's a minority, right? It's not even close to a 2%. So I look at
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:07.199
    | text      = the polls. I look at, I look at the rematch and I think a lot of people are just going to stay home.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:12.000
    | text      = And that means it could be a close election and that means anything can happen,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:14.880
    | text      = but most people don't want to don't, I guess I, what I find interesting is that despite Trump
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:21.119
    | text      = having the mega media, having Fox, having all of these sources, having all these outlets,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:25.679
    | text      = having all this incendiary rhetoric, most people still aren't buying what he's selling.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:31.199
    | text      = Right there. Right. No, I understand. I understand what I, what I question is that,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:39.840
    | text      = that, you know, even for naming your book, network of lies, you believe a lot of these people in the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:48.639
    | text      = book, you know, like they're believe them in what way? I mean, all of the sources in Fox news, the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:36:54.400
    | text      = the producers, the people who were there on the ground, you, you kind of have this almost blanket
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:01.599
    | text      = acceptance that they wouldn't be lying to you in an, in an, you know, network of lies kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:08.639
    | text      = off air. These are people who wouldn't lie to me on air. They'll lie all they want. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:15.360
    | text      = Is that kind of the vibe that you, that you that's interesting into Fox news?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:19.840
    | text      = Cause that's the vibe I got from the book. Yeah. No one's asked me that in that way before
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:25.519
    | text      = that's really interesting question. Why would I believe any of these sources? Yeah. Why wouldn't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:30.480
    | text      = they lie? They're Nazis. So, so first of all, again, I reject that word. I understand.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:37.039
    | text      = I think, I guess one of the, my takeaways having covered to, I basically have blogged and covered
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:44.480
    | text      = and written about television news for 20 years now and including Fox and CNN and MSNBC and all the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:49.519
    | text      = rest. And, you know, I've been on all these networks as a guest, even Fox, Greg got filled,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:37:53.920
    | text      = had me on red eye years ago. Incredibly rest in peace, red eye. I have, yeah. I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:01.519
    | text      = he put me on the cover of his book recently. I went to Barnes and Noble today and it was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:05.440
    | text      = all instead of 50% off and I felt bad for him. I feel like I've soaked in this swamp for long
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:14.159
    | text      = enough to feel like most of the incentives are the same. Most of the people care about the same
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:21.440
    | text      = things. Most of them are not degenerate liars. Most of them are not completely, you know, wholly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:29.840
    | text      = lacking in ethics, you know, like, like most of them want to come over to their families and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:34.159
    | text      = make a lot of money and yada, yada, yada, like, like most of them exist in a way that I can now,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:41.199
    | text      = within that, there are some that are, you know, incredibly good maniacal and like, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:46.000
    | text      = author rockers and all that's true. But like, I feel like when I sit across from an executive
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:52.320
    | text      = at Fox or an anchor or a host of Fox or a commentator on Fox, I can have a honest
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:38:58.559
    | text      = conversation, I guess is the, and maybe that's because I come from this. What's that? Or is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:03.760
    | text      = that off air or on air? Do you have off air? You don't have the same company on air.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:08.639
    | text      = I don't know what it would be like to be on Fox as a guest. And I don't think that opportunity
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:12.800
    | text      = is ever coming because they, they, yeah, they, they, they, there's no, no, no openness to,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:19.920
    | text      = I have been pursued by Newsmax recently, and I've been debating whether to go on Newsmax
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:26.000
    | text      = and, and well, and so far, the reason I have not said yes is because I don't, I feel like it might
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:30.159
    | text      = be some sort of trap or, you know, I, I don't know if I would trust the host. There's no reason.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:36.639
    | text      = There's no conversation to be had. I mean, like that's, that's kind of the thing. We just covered
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:42.079
    | text      = the debate, quote unquote that Alex Glenn Greenwald and some other fucker. Oh yeah. I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:49.440
    | text      = hadn't heard the other guy. Yeah. Destiny's shit bag and the crash and steam dick wads.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:39:54.960
    | text      = And it is, it is so much like, it doesn't matter. They made a good point. They made a great point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:01.360
    | text      = They dunked on him. It was an awesome point. And then Alex went, and that's it. That's all
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:07.920
    | text      = it matters. It didn't matter that they said anything. It didn't matter that they had a point.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:12.480
    | text      = It didn't matter. What mattered is it was entertaining. And the people who want to go,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:17.360
    | text      = there was a winner, get to go. The big angry guy was the winner. Like there's no going into that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:23.199
    | text      = situation that is not going to be just pointless for you and useful for them. That very much,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:31.679
    | text      = that does get to this, this, this disconnect that I feel, I tried to say earlier, like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:36.079
    | text      = I'm just a reporter. Like he's the entertainer, right? It's I feel very much as if one of the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:42.639
    | text      = root of all of our problems, at least in our media society is are those disconnects. Like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:49.039
    | text      = you've lots and lots of reporters who are flawed, but trying to tell people what's going on in the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:53.280
    | text      = world. And they're up against this entertainment and propaganda thing that doesn't exist to compete
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:40:59.599
    | text      = with them editorially. They're not trying to beat those writers to the news. Like they're not,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:05.440
    | text      = but you know, Jesse waters is not trying to like get the scoop before CNN. Like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:10.239
    | text      = no, Jesse waters is on a mission. He, his project is to, is to take out the CNN,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:16.719
    | text      = so you're like to, to, to remove them from the playing field in order to advance a political
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:20.800
    | text      = agenda so that he has to pay less lower taxes. Like there's, but, but it's like a category. It's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:26.960
    | text      = this constant category error because Fox news is prime prime time. Talk shows look like news.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:32.480
    | text      = You know, they're framed like news. They sit at news anchor desks. They have news looking graphics.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:37.440
    | text      = They actually go in the field to news reporters. Sometimes like it's all just, you know?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:42.239
    | text      = Right. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, info wars has the studio, the trappings of yeah, absolutely.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:48.320
    | text      = To, to provide a level of legitimacy that isn't there. Let me ask you a question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:52.239
    | text      = It's very hard for a writer or a reporter to compete with that because what do you do?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:41:55.679
    | text      = Like, how do you, what do you, it's like, where do you even start? Okay. Sorry.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:01.039
    | text      = No, no, no, no. I totally understand. I'm with you. I've got a comedy poster from an open mic.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:05.440
    | text      = I read on my wall. Yeah, I get it. I do not have a studio. No. What I want to ask you about Jesse
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:11.599
    | text      = waters. How is it that, you know, that Jesse waters is doing all that shit. Doing what,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:19.599
    | text      = what do I mean? Just like, do you, are you saying that, you know, this because it's obvious from the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:25.840
    | text      = behavior. Are you saying, you know, this from conversations from within, are you saying that,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:30.559
    | text      = you know, this from knowing the guy? I don't, I don't know him personally. I'm not, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:37.679
    | text      = no, you know, not interested. Right. If, if, if he was a source, I would, I would avoid the, the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:43.840
    | text      = the conversation. Right. I mean, meaning I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't admit it anyway. I think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:48.880
    | text      = like in general, I just look at these the kind of the, the, the, the, the mega host people on Fox,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:42:57.280
    | text      = the commentators, the right-wing commentaries as, you know, they're mostly interchangeable,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:03.280
    | text      = right? Jesse's more of like comic relief. He kind of was, he was the Bill Riley sidekick,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:07.440
    | text      = and then he, he, you know, grew into this job and all of that, but he's, he's putting on a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:12.480
    | text      = very predictable show. But when I say he's doing it in service of political agenda, like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:17.679
    | text      = I think that part's clear, right. Based on what he decides to lead his show with every night.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:22.800
    | text      = He, he, you know, very clearly wants Biden to be removed and all that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:28.719
    | text      = Right. So you can see that right away. Now, what confuses me, this is why I go back to this
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:34.159
    | text      = kind of blanket belief in, in the people that you're talking to at Fox news is that in a,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:40.639
    | text      = in a way you are essentially calling all of them fucking stupid because they would have to be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:46.639
    | text      = fucking stupid not to know what you know. You know, they would have to be fucking stupid not
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:52.719
    | text      = to be able to look at what Jesse Waters does and make the same conclusion that you do. So how is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:43:59.280
    | text      = it that they can tell you like, Oh, well, you know, we have all of these things in place to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:04.159
    | text      = kind of do all this stuff and you not just go, you know exactly what the fuck you're doing.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:10.079
    | text      = Well, I, so I think Fox has evolved over time or devolved over time. There was an era where
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:16.000
    | text      = they claim to be fair and balanced for real. Like that was like a, not just a slogan that was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:20.480
    | text      = reality. And there was a time when if you called the channel conservative, the PR people would
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:26.719
    | text      = object and would complain and would go to your editors and demand a correction. Sure. That, that,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:31.199
    | text      = that era is over and there's not really the same kind of denial of what Fox does or is. So I don't,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:38.639
    | text      = I don't think, I don't know if there's really a dispute there in terms of like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:42.639
    | text      = what is Jesse waters there for? I kind of disagree with you if you call Fox news and explicitly
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:48.559
    | text      = racist network designed and for the purpose of demonizing immigrants and people of color and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:44:56.480
    | text      = nonwhite males, then the PR department will come after you. You are not allowed to say that on TV,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:02.800
    | text      = right? They, I think they would have my dumb little, I think they would have,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:07.360
    | text      = I think the, well, you can say it, but I think they would object to the term racist. Yes.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:11.519
    | text      = Right. Right. I think difference. They're lying about that in the same way they were lying about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:17.039
    | text      = being a conservative back then. But you know, but you know how these arguments go. There is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:22.159
    | text      = actually a problem on the Southern border. There is a real immigration challenge in this country.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:28.159
    | text      = They happen to talk about it a lot more than CNN. They happen to dedicate more resources to it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:33.280
    | text      = Like, you know, all the arguments they could make. I'm not talking about, I'm not talking
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:38.239
    | text      = about arguments about that. I'm talking about the, the conversation that we just had about them
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:44.079
    | text      = lying. You know, like you, as you pointed out, they said way back when, if you call them
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:49.199
    | text      = conservative, their PR people would come after you. And then of course the mass came off five
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:54.239
    | text      = years or 10 years later, whatever it was. And they were always the conservatives. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:45:59.599
    | text      = They were all, it was always who they were. They were telling you the PR people were angry at you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:04.559
    | text      = for telling the truth. Well, yes. And the two, well, yes, but the channels also changed, right?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:09.440
    | text      = Like the channel used to have more newscasts, you know, they might've been conservative newscasts,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:15.599
    | text      = but right. Things that actually were designed to be news reports. You know, the, the, the product
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:21.280
    | text      = really has changed quite, quite a lot. I'm just saying on the, on something like racist,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:27.840
    | text      = you know, the, the, obviously the pushback would be, would be severe. And, and what they would say
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:33.199
    | text      = are things like the following. Do you not think that there's an immigration challenge at the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:37.039
    | text      = border? Do you not feel the borders initially, but I'm just, this is, this is, these are,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:41.840
    | text      = how you, these are our political debates now, right? They're not there. Go fuck yourself.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:46.880
    | text      = That's the political debate. They're they're bullshit. That's bullshit. All of that is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:52.320
    | text      = nonsense. What are people talking about? Look, when, wasn't it Rhonda Santas who,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:46:58.320
    | text      = who flew migrants up to, uh, can I ask you a question? I'm just saying when Fox, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:06.000
    | text      = Fox makes sure, you know, Fox has the cameras there to meet the planes. Like Fox has raised
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:10.880
    | text      = the salience of the immigration conversation or the topic in a dramatic fashion. Like Fox
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:17.280
    | text      = deserves a lot of credit or blame or whatever for raising the salience to get them on a plane
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:24.159
    | text      = and send them somewhere else. Is that I'm just a media reporter. I'm not the, but I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:30.079
    | text      = that's my kind of, that's my kind of response to you is you are talking about the, the argument
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:37.440
    | text      = they're having. I'm saying that Ron has committed a crime. I don't really give a shit what everybody
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:42.960
    | text      = has to say immediately following that beyond either that is a crime or that's not a crime.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:48.400
    | text      = Do you know what I mean? There's no, there's no argument about the border until Rhonda
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:54.239
    | text      = Santas is in jail or I know that I can kidnap people. Well, except, except that that's you,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:47:59.760
    | text      = the way you're, the arguments already happening, the debates already happened. Like you can't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:03.280
    | text      = stop it. You're not stopping it with your, with your point. Exactly. Exactly. That is what I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:08.159
    | text      = saying. That is what I'm saying. When I say that you and Alex are kind of closer than you are to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:15.119
    | text      = me, I can have no effect on that debate. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not a main character
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:22.320
    | text      = in there. Well, I see. My instinct is to push back on that and to say, of course everyone can make a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:28.719
    | text      = difference. And I don't want to say that in like a sarcastic way. I would like to say in a sincere
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:33.760
    | text      = way to make it come out though. Yeah. I would love to, to tell you that every voice matters.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:43.519
    | text      = Sure. And but listen, I'm on the outside now. I'm I'm no, I'm no, I'm not a, you know, I don't even
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:48:55.599
    | text      = know where to find Alex Jones's show anymore. Is there, is there a web? How do you find it now?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:00.400
    | text      = I mean, I believe it's band.video. I should know that more off the top of my head.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:05.360
    | text      = So like when I, when I, when he, when he drunk dialed me that night,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:09.599
    | text      = by the way, can I just give the context of the whole story? We listened to his version of it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:15.039
    | text      = And now I would like to hear your version. Yeah. So the phone call came from Justin Wells,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:21.280
    | text      = who was her Carlson's like top producer producing partner. And of course, when someone's writing a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:26.960
    | text      = book about Fox and Tucker, the reporter, the author tries to reach the producer.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:31.679
    | text      = So I had Dustin Wells, his phone number. Sure. So when his number pops up on screen,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:36.239
    | text      = it's like 10 o'clock I've been, I've been drinking, but I wasn't looking to drunk dial anybody.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:40.719
    | text      = So when he calls late at night, oh, heck, of course I'm an answer. Like, heck yeah,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:43.760
    | text      = I'm an answer. Sure. So I answer, I hear Alex's voice. I don't know if it's really Alex or if
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:50.079
    | text      = it's an imposter. Like I kind of played along in part because I wasn't sure if it was really Alex
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:49:55.119
    | text      = Jones. Wouldn't that be so disappointing if it was one of those, those guys suck so bad. I hate that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:01.840
    | text      = shit. I hate that. I'm going to pretend to be. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I assumed it was the real
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:07.199
    | text      = guy, but I just didn't want to like, I just, well, it's two things. One, I assumed that he
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:11.599
    | text      = was recording the call and two. Yeah. I just, I didn't want to, you know, go all the way down.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:16.000
    | text      = I just wanted to keep my guard up. But, you know, they were obviously like trying to,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:21.119
    | text      = trying to have some fun. And there was a point at which, and by the way, as a reporter,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:28.239
    | text      = my whole attitude with these kinds of things is keep them on the phone. Like let's keep talking,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:32.880
    | text      = like whatever. Also my kids are, so we got nothing better to do. Like, this is entertaining,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:37.440
    | text      = but like keep them on the phone and ask me questions. But anyway, I, at one point we were
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:42.400
    | text      = like ribbing each other a little bit and I made a comment about, I don't know where to find his
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:46.320
    | text      = show. Like I don't even know. Does he still have a show? Yeah. And, and he hit back with the, well,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:50.960
    | text      = I know you don't have a show anymore or something to that effect. And this, I think like kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:50:56.480
    | text      = crystallizes the difference between Alex and I. So you, I appreciate your point about the, the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:02.800
    | text      = the similarities, the certain kind of broadcasting world. Here's the big difference though. One of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:09.199
    | text      = the differences, one of the big differences between here's the one that I'm trying to say
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:15.199
    | text      = the similarity. Yeah. But the big thing that struck me was when I left CNN, when my, when
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:22.159
    | text      = the reliable sources program was canceled, when I was fired for me, it ended up being the best thing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:27.119
    | text      = that ever happened to me. You know, look, maybe in 10 years or something, I'll feel differently,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:31.760
    | text      = but at least now 18 months out, I I've been having the time of my life. And so what it was
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:36.159
    | text      = so revealing is Alex thought he was insulting me, right? Like for him, it is a put down like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:41.519
    | text      = ha ha, you lose or you got canceled. And it's like, no, I just had the best day. Like I'm my,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:47.280
    | text      = I'm my daughter's class dad, like at school, like I get to go off and write wherever I want,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:52.000
    | text      = whenever I want. Like I have a great gig in a great life now, but it's so revealing because
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:51:57.039
    | text      = people like Alex Jones, who are addicted to the red light, the red light on the camera.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:02.079
    | text      = It's a kind of a metaphor. It's a TV agents talk about this. Sometimes they have clients who are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:07.119
    | text      = addicted to the red light, who need to be on TV. That's how it's shown. He needs to be heard. He
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:12.400
    | text      = needs to be out in front of the world. And it turns out I don't have that addiction. And I've
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:17.280
    | text      = been relieved to learn that I don't, but it was so revealing to me that like, that was his insult
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:21.599
    | text      = and that, you know, it's not insulting. I mean, I, I, I would say that I would say all of us have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:28.960
    | text      = that addiction to a varying degree. You know, like I, I spent 10 years going up on stage for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:35.840
    | text      = zero people, you know later on more than zero, but not, not enough, not enough more than zero.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:44.320
    | text      = I'll tell you that. And so, you know, that if I wasn't addicted to that, at least a little bit,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:50.559
    | text      = you know, I could have just not done this show. I could have just gone back to brick laying.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:52:57.039
    | text      = I don't know why I've never laid a brick before in my life, but I don't know why that would be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:01.280
    | text      = my next gig. Anybody brick layers, that's right there for you. So yeah, I wanted to,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:10.079
    | text      = I wanted to go down this one, one interesting thing in your, in your book later on is the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:18.159
    | text      = the the Cavuto kind of what revolt, not revolt, like the Cavuto gentle, slight pushback breeze.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:31.599
    | text      = During that time period, does he walk around thinking he's fucking noble?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:39.519
    | text      = So I don't think I, I don't think I have the firsthand knowledge to answer that question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:42.800
    | text      = Sure. Okay. I think he's of a different, I think he is like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:49.360
    | text      = he is of the 1997 Fox news and has somehow miraculously stayed and, and remained and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:53:57.199
    | text      = been able to be on the 2024 Fox news. Right. But he is very much a vestige of an earlier
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:02.719
    | text      = and different era. He has been there, you know, since the beginning and, you know, he's, I,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:10.239
    | text      = I wish I, I wish I knew exactly how to explain this. He's among the lowest rated hosts on Fox
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:16.159
    | text      = is 4 p.m. Hour. And yet among the executives, one of the most respected, you know, like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:23.199
    | text      = his, cause he is this, he is this like real true. I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna think this is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:29.199
    | text      = all BS, but like he actually is an honest, he's an honest report. You know, he's a, he's a truth
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:34.480
    | text      = teller. Right. So what you're saying is he made a pact with the devil. Oh, here you go. Come on,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:45.519
    | text      = come on, Carol, Carol defamation, you know, settlement comes down and $83 million. And
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:52.639
    | text      = he just honestly calls it. It's a staggering amount. He has guests on who told the truth
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:54:56.639
    | text      = about it. And then an hour later on the five, the 5m talk show, ignored it, of course,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:01.280
    | text      = didn't even mention aging Carol's success. Obviously that's a higher rate of show.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:05.760
    | text      = The five is a really hit. It's a really popular show. You know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:08.320
    | text      = Kubota's hour is not, but they keep them on, right. They keep them on and he keeps on going.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:13.599
    | text      = And I, I respect that. I don't think you do a question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:18.320
    | text      = Do they keep him on for you? Well, that is an interesting question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:23.119
    | text      = That's and I mean, you know, I don't mean you specifically, obviously, but I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:26.480
    | text      = in the larger sense, he is, he is that pulling back from Tucker Carlson, right? He is the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:32.559
    | text      = he's the varying degree in the laundering process of bullshit.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:37.199
    | text      = I am trying to look up the phrase that I have in the book for this because I don't want to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:42.960
    | text      = misquote it. Oh, here it is. Yeah. I, I, I, I described Chris Wallace who decided to leave Fox
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:51.039
    | text      = at the end of 2021. He's now at CNN, but there was this dinner that I described in the book
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:55:57.920
    | text      = where Lachlan Murdoch comes to DC and he's hanging out with the whole DC Bureau and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:01.679
    | text      = Tucker Carlson show was based in DC. So Tucker's at the dinner and Tucker sitting on one side of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:06.400
    | text      = the CEO and Chris Wallace is on the other side of the CEO. And, you know, in terms of financial
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:11.760
    | text      = impact and identity with the brand, Tucker's the star, not Chris Wallace, but Fox really tried to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:17.760
    | text      = keep Chris Wallace from leaving. They tried to renew his contract. They didn't want him to go to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:21.840
    | text      = CNN. And, and so in the book I say a senior staffer called it a double or triple game
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:27.440
    | text      = that the Murdoch's play. They make money from the Tucker people, the opinion people,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:31.360
    | text      = but they reap other rewards from the news people. And so I think that applies to Cavuto as well.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:35.920
    | text      = It's a double or triple game. Okay. So that implies that, I mean, that requires awareness.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:42.800
    | text      = Yes. Right. So if you are aware that you are specifically hiring this person to give you a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:51.760
    | text      = veneer of legitimacy, that means you're aware you are illegitimate functionally. You can't not
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:56:57.920
    | text      = understand that as a concept, right? Well, legitimacy is an interesting word. I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:03.679
    | text      = how about we are mostly a right-wing talking points brand, but we occasionally want to have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:08.800
    | text      = people on who, who, who break that mold. I mean that that's not about legitimacy, right? That's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:13.280
    | text      = about content. The reason we have these people on is to make the other lunatics seem less crazy,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:22.960
    | text      = or it is to make us feel less bad about putting these lunatics on the air.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:28.480
    | text      = Either way, it is somebody saying, I know what I'm doing is wrong. I'm a child.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:34.639
    | text      = No, but see you bringing right, but you keep bringing moral and ethical arguments to a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:40.960
    | text      = financial fight. Right? Sure. Sure. No, but I'm, this is where we get back to the conversations
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:47.199
    | text      = that you're having. Like I'm still going back. I don't, I don't let shit go. This is why I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:52.239
    | text      = telling you that I find it so fascinating that when somebody, when a Fox news exec tells you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:57:58.800
    | text      = something, you don't spit in their face because there's, if this person is aware that what they're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:05.920
    | text      = doing with the five is what pays their bills and what they're doing with the four is what makes
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:11.280
    | text      = them feel good. Then they know what they're doing. So they can't come to you and say, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:17.760
    | text      = kind of thing. Sure. Let's, let's try that a different way. What they're doing it for is the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:24.079
    | text      = honorable thing to do, but what they're doing at five is what the audience wants and what the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:28.960
    | text      = audience wants is the key, but that's the yeah. Okay. But sure. But, but just, I think the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:36.880
    | text      = audience is, is the key is, is the point here. Like they are programming morality into it this
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:42.159
    | text      = time. Ah, they are doing it to win ratings points, right? On every hour of every day
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:47.920
    | text      = to, to keep the, and so that, this is why I am somewhat sympathetic to the view that, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:58:56.400
    | text      = they're, I, gosh, I don't even want to say it because they're going to laugh, held hostage by,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:01.519
    | text      = held hostage by the audience. Yeah. Yep. Yep. You can't, you can't get a, you can't escape that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:07.760
    | text      = And I think, I think part of the, the issue is again, I truly believe that it's, it's kind of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:14.960
    | text      = almost evolutionary. We're social creatures and I can't talk to them. They are characters to me,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:22.559
    | text      = the characters at Fox news. I can't, you know, I will never be able to interact with them,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:28.159
    | text      = despite the fact that they have a material destructive force upon my life. I can't push
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:34.320
    | text      = back on them whatsoever. Right. So it's easy for me to go fucking spit in their dumb fuck faces.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:41.679
    | text      = Right. But you have to it's entirely possible that you'll go to dinner with them. Do you know
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:48.079
    | text      = what I'm saying? So doesn't it make more, doesn't it feel more likely that you would believe somebody
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 00:59:54.880
    | text      = who is lying to you because, you know, I got to see them next week. Yeah. I mean, look,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:01.840
    | text      = first of all you know, I live out in the, in the suburbs. I don't see these people in person very
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:07.280
    | text      = often. Just, just to be honest, just to be, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to paint you as
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:12.800
    | text      = anything that you're not. And I'm not trying to say that what you've done is any good or bad or
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:18.079
    | text      = anything like that. Well, I'm just trying to like, this is kind of the mold of what it is that we're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:22.719
    | text      = dealing with, you know, and you have firsthand intimate knowledge of it. Well, here's, here's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:26.719
    | text      = here's a, here's a fun example. So, so Alex Jones and others freaked out when I went to the World
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:33.519
    | text      = Economic Forum meeting in Davos last year. There, there were these like, you know, propaganda
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:38.639
    | text      = stories saying that I was being paid and that I was there to promote disinformation and all this
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:43.440
    | text      = stuff. And, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're paying for Brian Stelter to go
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:46.480
    | text      = lie to us and all these crazy stories. And in fact, it was like, they asked me to moderate a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:51.519
    | text      = panel. I paid for my own flight and hotel. Like it was, you know, I, I actually left a day early
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:00:57.519
    | text      = because I wasn't enjoying the conference very much. I missed my kids, but like, it was cool to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:02.400
    | text      = be, to see what it was, which what I realized is this is a giant networking event for rich people.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:07.840
    | text      = Like it's just a networking thing. They just, they're there to schmooze and see each other's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:11.440
    | text      = and go to their parties. But I'm, I'm at Anthony Scaramucci's party and which was hard to get into
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:17.280
    | text      = this line out the door. And you know, former Trump official turned Trump opponent, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:23.519
    | text      = And, and who do I bump into? But Maria Bartiromo, Maria Bartiromo, who more than any other person is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:29.519
    | text      = responsible for the defamation case by dominion, who started the dominion lie on Fox, who had the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:36.880
    | text      = first interview with Trump after Trump lost the election and who, who indulged his delusions and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:42.239
    | text      = encouraged his attack against the government. The, you know, not physical attack, but you know
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:47.920
    | text      = Marie Bartiromo, who, who used to be this renowned CNBC anchor, who now lives in a different reality
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:54.400
    | text      = on a different earth than I do. And there she is looking for a great glass of wine.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:01:58.719
    | text      = In this overly crowded party in Davos. And, you know, we smiled at each other and like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:04.480
    | text      = I feel like neither of us really actually wanted to have a conversation because it would be too
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:09.039
    | text      = awkward for both of us. So there is a point at which it's where it would have been awkward
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:15.840
    | text      = because I don't know who she is anymore, where, where five years ago we did, we were at a party
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:22.639
    | text      = together and we were dancing next to each other, you know, on the dance floor in the Hamptons.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:26.320
    | text      = And now it's like, there's so many, gosh, like now, like you're starting to turn to my therapist.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:32.639
    | text      = There's like so much to say, there's so many objections. There's so like, how could you have
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:38.239
    | text      = done that? Maria, how could you have done, you know, there's so much of that now in between us.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:42.800
    | text      = And by the way, I don't think she's ever, ever thought about him ever since she blocked me on
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:45.840
    | text      = Twitter. I doubt she's ever, you know, used a breath of her energy to talk about me or think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:50.480
    | text      = about me. But my point is there are limits to the dynamic you're describing, which is real. Like I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:02:56.480
    | text      = have, you know, I have gone to lunch with folks from Fox and and sometimes they pay the check and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:02.000
    | text      = sometimes I pay the check and like we end up in it all like it evens out and we have great
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:06.480
    | text      = conversation and I learn a lot and I feel like we're on the same planet, but I guess I'm just
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:10.800
    | text      = trying to say, there's also a point at which there's a, there's, there is such thing as too far
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:16.639
    | text      = or a point of no return. What's the metaphor? Like there is a point at which it's not possible to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:23.440
    | text      = have a dialogue. It's when the, it's when coyote looks down. That's, that's when it's not, I don't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:29.199
    | text      = know that reference. What is that? Wiley coyote when he, when he looks down, that's when the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:34.159
    | text      = conversation is over. There's, there's definitely a point at which like you can't, and then,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:40.480
    | text      = and it is that point where you don't know if she'd even be, you don't know if you'd be able
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:43.599
    | text      = to believe our answers anyway. No, I, I, here's why, here's what I'm coming to, to believe,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:50.880
    | text      = uh, uh, coming to realize, uh, as we go back through the past, you know, we've, we go back
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:03:55.920
    | text      = and we listened to Alex Jones episodes from 2003, you know, so we've, we did the night of Y2K,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:03.039
    | text      = uh, you know, we were there. Joe Rogan was there. Why not? Or no, no, no. Joe Rogan was there on
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:07.920
    | text      = September 11th. Cause why not? Uh, he also might've been there. Anyways. Um, I, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:15.920
    | text      = people have said, Oh, Alex has changed. Alex's content has changed and all that stuff. And there
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:21.199
    | text      = are changes. Uh, what hasn't changed is the most important part. I I'm looking at so many people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:30.719
    | text      = and we have this point of view of like, they are different to me. I see them differently.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:38.880
    | text      = And I find that it's more likely that the world has changed around them. And these are the same
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:43.679
    | text      = people that they always were. I mean, you know, we, we talk about CNBC, uh, at the idea, but
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:51.440
    | text      = what you used to get away with saying as a, as a quote unquote liberal in the, in the early 2000s
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:04:57.039
    | text      = was nuts. You could be like, eh, fucking kill gay people. That would be fine. That was on the TV.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:04.639
    | text      = You know, I mean, not in so many words, but it was, Oh, well, Obama's evolving on gay marriage.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:11.440
    | text      = It was all of these different words that we know now mean Obama was fine with it,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:17.760
    | text      = but politically he wasn't ready to talk about it. So he was lying to us, you know, he would,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:22.400
    | text      = he would rather put it that way. It's a little bit easier. You know, Obama didn't change.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:27.920
    | text      = Obama hired Geithner. Obama isn't a hundred million right now because he's different.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:34.079
    | text      = Do you know what I mean? So my question is that if you have that conversation with her,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:40.559
    | text      = do you think it's awkward because she's changed her because you've changed
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:43.679
    | text      = Again, back to the therapy. There's some people, and I, I put this in the book that some people
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:05:55.760
    | text      = say she's always been the same person that at CNBC, she sucked up to CEOs and a Fox,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:01.760
    | text      = the CEO was Trump. And so she just did the same. She had the same sort of approach,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:07.599
    | text      = but to politics as to business and with a businessman politician. And so there's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:12.880
    | text      = there's logic to that, that there's actually a consistency. There's a through line
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:17.119
    | text      = and maybe I'm the one injecting my own sense of moral superiority. I guess what I've,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:23.679
    | text      = I guess my trajectory or, or the journey or whatever it's, it's this sense. Look,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:30.480
    | text      = what it does, it goes back to, it goes back to 2016 when it becomes clear that the fake news
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:38.079
    | text      = is actually a real problem. Sure. And I mean, fake news, meaning made up stories designed to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:43.039
    | text      = deceive you. Right. Right. There's a, if you Google Brian Stelter Gitmo, you'll find a bunch
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:48.320
    | text      = of fake news stories and say, I was executed at Guantanamo Bay after being fired by CNN.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:06:54.639
    | text      = I think we can confirm those are fake news stories, but that day, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:02.559
    | text      = But that moment that Trump took the term fake news and redefined it to mean news,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:06.880
    | text      = he doesn't like news. You shouldn't believe the moment that that happened. Like we got
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:11.519
    | text      = fucked as a country, right? That really like deeply wounded us. And you might think I'm making
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:16.880
    | text      = too much of that moment, but that moment to me, that's a couple, couple of days it's, it's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:20.880
    | text      = it's two weeks later, they lie about crowd size, you know, and, and we're off to the races in terms
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:26.000
    | text      = of this, this disinformation campaign it's before we were even using the word disinformation,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:30.880
    | text      = you know, but then we started using these, these, these terms to try to understand what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:35.280
    | text      = was happening to our sense of shared reality. To me, this was, you know, these were formative
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:41.519
    | text      = years and I learned a lot about, you know, what my belief system, like my value system, right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:47.039
    | text      = And there's a lot of stuff out there that's garbage, but it's not disinformation.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:51.280
    | text      = There's so much stuff out there that's, you know, nonsense, but I wouldn't call it fake. I wouldn't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:07:56.719
    | text      = call it a lie, you know, and where I reserve my most, you know, attention, I guess is for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:03.199
    | text      = the straight up lot, like the provable lies. Now here's why I appreciate you. You come at it
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:08.079
    | text      = totally differently from a comedy lens, like with a comedian's head on it. And you are so much
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:13.519
    | text      = blunter, right? You'll just, you know, that's why I would use that word. I would use that word,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:20.000
    | text      = but you're making me think that Fox promoting Greg Godfeld was genius because a comedian is able to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:27.600
    | text      = interpret the world around them so differently than like a nerdy older boy.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:33.439
    | text      = I would like to stop you very quickly. I know what I just did ever call gut field,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:38.720
    | text      = anything similar to a comedian or give him any credit towards humor. I would, I would rather
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:45.199
    | text      = shit myself. And I don't mean that from a, a point of view of his politics, anything along those
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:51.199
    | text      = lines. I just mean that from a joke writing standpoint, like we've, we've gone back and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:08:55.600
    | text      = forth on our show so often about like, okay, here's why conservatives should, this is what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:02.239
    | text      = they should have done to make the bit work. Like it's just what we do is we make bits work. Like
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:07.279
    | text      = we're the writer's room. So it's not that his politics are terrible. It's that he's a shitty
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:12.399
    | text      = comic. It's that he's not fucking funny. And it drives me insane. And I can be a proof point for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:18.000
    | text      = that because he has made dozens scores of jokes about me, but probably more than a hundred,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:23.279
    | text      = all the very same fat joke. And it, it makes me worry about his audience. Like, does he think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:31.520
    | text      = this audience is asleep? Like, does he think that they're not, like, they're not actually listening
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:35.439
    | text      = because they've, they've heard the joke before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:42.640
    | text      = sorry. Sorry. That's just one of those, man, you know, people who here's generally speaking,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:49.760
    | text      = it's a bad idea to insult people. If you're using something that you could insult anybody else with,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:09:55.359
    | text      = it has to be specific and then it has to make them think about it later on. Like if you take
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:00.000
    | text      = a shower, the only good insult is one where if I have insulted you, you should take a shower the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:05.279
    | text      = next day and go, Oh, and feel bad about it. That's, that's an insult. Well, he has not succeeded on
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:12.319
    | text      = that front with me. Yeah. God. So, but that, well, I mean, even that though, that aspect of a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:17.840
    | text      = gut felt, we're going to put that felt on our network. That is as much a business decision
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:23.680
    | text      = of like, well, we want to diversify our stock or whatever it is as it is like a, well, we're not
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:30.720
    | text      = all lunatics. Yeah. I do think God failed the hiring, the promotion of got failed to primetime.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:37.840
    | text      = Well, first to give him a talk show, then it moved to primetime and then to promote Jesse waters.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:41.840
    | text      = To me, it was very much a bring in the clowns approach, like sending the clowns, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:47.680
    | text      = we need, we need humor. We're more than a news brand. I mean, I think it says two things. One
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:54.000
    | text      = box is more than a news brand. It's a way of life. It is a lifestyle brand. It is an identity
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:10:59.600
    | text      = for many of its fans. It's important to recognize that like to face that for what it is because
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:04.239
    | text      = Yeah. And then second, I think leaning on humor allows them to get away with stuff that they can't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:14.800
    | text      = otherwise, right. In the same way that you see this with, with a lot of the kind of the right
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:19.840
    | text      = wing rhetoric around a race, for example, or, or gender. Oh, I was just kidding. Or the, was he
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:27.680
    | text      = kidding? Like allows them to get to move the conversation. Right? Yeah. No, the joke is that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:33.520
    | text      = they, that you let them get away with it. That's the joke. You know, like, like if,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:38.479
    | text      = if you have somebody like Gutfeld say, you know, like, Oh, we should put all black people in cages,
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{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:43.680
    | text      = you know, the joke is that you and I will go, well, clearly he doesn't mean that.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:48.800
    | text      = And for the record, he has not said, no, he does not. And he has not said, no,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:52.720
    | text      = I'm giving you an example. I'm not saying that he specifically said that, but, but like in,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:11:57.600
    | text      = in any number, you know, in Anna Merlin's book in Republic of lies, whenever she's going to these,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:02.479
    | text      = these groups of people, these youths with their, with their coats, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:08.960
    | text      = any number of things, you know, the far right youths there is like that element of like,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:13.520
    | text      = ha ha ha, we'll rape somebody. And the joke is that they mean it. The joke is that they're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:19.279
    | text      = going to say this to her face and she's going to watch them say it. That's the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:24.960
    | text      = that's what makes them laugh. And that's kind of why it's horrific to compare them to you.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:30.000
    | text      = Hmm. There's also right there. Well, there's also, isn't there also an element of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:35.840
    | text      = a, this is our politics now, right? That we can't you on MSNBC at 10 PM Eastern time is Lawrence
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:45.119
    | text      = O'Donnell who grew up in, in, you know, is, is a formative at all experiences. We're working for
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:51.119
    | text      = Moynihan working, you know, in the Senate, working, working on Capitol Hill, learning how policy is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:12:56.319
    | text      = crafted, learning how laws are made and, you know, and he'll book senators as guests, he'll book
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:01.600
    | text      = Andrew Weissman, he'll book, you know, legal figures as guests. And that's the show up against
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:06.000
    | text      = Greg Gutfeld's insult fest. Right. And the fact that on Fox, well, right, but, but the, well,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:13.279
    | text      = it's a different audience, right? Lawrence rates. Well, but, but what does it say about the Fox
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:17.760
    | text      = brand and the Fox base that, that it's a comedy show they've decided is what works and not a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:24.960
    | text      = serious conversation about policy. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I suppose you think
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:31.600
    | text      = they're all just too far gone that it doesn't matter. No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely. Absolutely
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:36.079
    | text      = not. No, I, I don't think, I don't think that there's much difference. I suppose like, okay.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:45.119
    | text      = Uh, I, I understand, uh, uh, how it seems like, ah, disinformation 2016 was kind of a thing, but
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:13:53.600
    | text      = you know, you go back and you read some of the political shit that they wrote in the 1800
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:00.159
    | text      = elections, you know, go back and read about how Thomas Jefferson fucked a slave in the newspaper
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:07.600
    | text      = and they thought they were lying. Like it is, it is that type of thing, you know, where I,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:16.079
    | text      = I wonder if this is just, we keep seeing America be America with newer shit.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:24.640
    | text      = Uh, okay. All right. I'm trying to think what the counter, I'm trying to think what the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:28.720
    | text      = counter argument to that is. America's going to America. What are you going to do?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:34.479
    | text      = Well, I I'd like to say that, I mean, I grew, I was born in 1985, so I kind of remember the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:40.880
    | text      = nineties. We maybe, maybe, you know, we, we had a political environment that was not nearly as
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:48.399
    | text      = toxic and polarizing. Can we, can we say that? Is that true? I think that's true. I think I,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:14:53.279
    | text      = I think that's another thing. That's another thing for me. We say that. And then if you go back and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:00.319
    | text      = you watch a nineties movie, you're going to go, Oh, the, our word was fun to say back then.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:05.920
    | text      = Oh boy. They just tossed that about like nothing, you know? Yeah. I recently rewatched the hangover
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:12.079
    | text      = and even more recent movie. And I was surprised by some of the jokes. Yeah. But that's, but that's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:17.680
    | text      = different than can neighbors disagree about politics and not fear of fistfight. Definitely.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:24.560
    | text      = Is that, you know, that's, that's where Trump has taken us is this fear. And it's what's led,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:29.119
    | text      = I think, to the dissatisfaction and the depression of the electorate that I was talking about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:32.319
    | text      = earlier. People just are tuned out and checked out. They don't want to deal with it. They don't
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:35.439
    | text      = want to think about it because they don't want to get into that argument with their neighbors.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:38.880
    | text      = They don't, they don't want to have that dispute. That's that to me feels like a kind of a,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:45.520
    | text      = like the world that Fox and Trump created or, or nurtured. Hmm. Yeah. And Alex Jones.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:15:54.479
    | text      = Yeah. You know, I think, I think it is a good question. Something of a chicken and egg,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:01.520
    | text      = how often these things coincide with a group of nonwhite people getting slightly more power.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:09.680
    | text      = Right. You know, is it, is it Trump's America or are LGBTQ people getting slightly more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:15.199
    | text      = representation than they were back then? You know it's because now it's trans people. It's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:21.680
    | text      = not gay people. 20 years ago, it was gay people who should we be allowing them to be in public,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:28.079
    | text      = you know, 20 years before that it was anybody who's ever done drugs. Anybody with AIDS should
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:34.239
    | text      = be killed, should be dead. You know, like these are things that were, that were there that we
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:39.600
    | text      = pretend didn't happen. Like Reagan laughed at people dying of AIDS. That's pretty fucked up
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:47.760
    | text      = in the discourse, right? A little too young, a little too young for that. My favorite analogy
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:16:53.920
    | text      = on the point about whites and power is Robert P Jones, head of a PRI, this Institute that does
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:01.520
    | text      = a lot of surveys on this topic. And, and he said, America, picture America as a dining room table
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:07.920
    | text      = where it used to be that white Christians controlled who sat at the table and where they
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:13.279
    | text      = got to sit right. Like the head of the family. And now in an increasingly multicultural country,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:19.439
    | text      = there's no single demographic group controlling the table. Everybody is invited to sit wherever
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:24.399
    | text      = they want. And that's, what's deeply threatening and deeply unsettling to the core Fox viewer,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:30.079
    | text      = like to the, to the typical 70 year old white male Fox Christian conservative viewer. That idea that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:36.079
    | text      = anybody can pull up a chair is the entire story. All right. So if that idea is what makes,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:44.079
    | text      = was what motivates the Fox news program, how is that not institutionalized racism?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:17:53.520
    | text      = It is our job to keep everybody away from our table. Well, I think they would say we are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:00.479
    | text      = defending what made America great. So that's, so that's, that's another good point. I don't,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:06.000
    | text      = but I don't want to like pretend to be the Fox pun and I'm not good at that. No, no, no. I'm,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:10.000
    | text      = I'm, I'm, I'm interested. I'm interested in how it is that this is allowed to fly.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:16.239
    | text      = You know what I mean? Like, just like with, you mean free speech? No, no, no, no. I mean,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:21.439
    | text      = with the conversations with Fox news employees, you know, like that idea of you have just
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:27.359
    | text      = explicitly explained racism. That's what it is. White people should be the only people at the
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:32.239
    | text      = table. That's racism. There's no other way to describe that. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:36.720
    | text      = It's not exactly what I said, but okay. Let's go with it. Sure. All right. And if that is what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:46.960
    | text      = motivates their viewers, that is what they are doing. That is what they are. So if that is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:18:56.000
    | text      = something that you know, that we can talk about that is demonstrably provable, right? How is it
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:02.079
    | text      = that they are still allowed to say, you know, like, whoa, no, we're defending what makes America
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:06.880
    | text      = great again, without all of you going, no, fuck you. Fox is racist from now until the end of time.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:13.119
    | text      = You know what I mean? Why does every TV journalist said on TV right now, as we know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:20.000
    | text      = Fox news is a threat to the United States of America. These racist Fox, do you know what I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:25.119
    | text      = mean? Okay. We can, we can go down your, your theoretical hole for a minute because even if
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:30.640
    | text      = that happened, which would never happen, sure. What would the, what would the outcome of that be?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:35.199
    | text      = Let's find out. I think it would never happen, but I think the answer is even more disillusionment,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:41.600
    | text      = even more polarization, even more taking sides. Nobody's opinion change. Nobody's nobody,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:46.319
    | text      = nobody persuaded. Right. Persuasion is no longer possible. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:53.520
    | text      = I don't want, I don't like to believe that's true. I don't like to believe that's true. I would,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:19:58.239
    | text      = I would like to believe that there are men. I actually think this, I,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:03.680
    | text      = what I do, let me, let me rephrase that. Let me rephrase that. I, I you're right. That's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:08.560
    | text      = that's unspecific persuasion is absolutely possible. Given the challenges that we face
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:15.039
    | text      = is persuasion, realistically a possible way to solve these problems. That's a better question.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:21.760
    | text      = I think it is. I think there's there, there, there have to be, and there are areas of common ground
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:30.640
    | text      = that can be found and the media can help to do that. Or the media can make the situation a whole
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:36.640
    | text      = lot worse. And, you know, I think when we, when we look at an hour of Sean Hannity's show that,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:41.920
    | text      = that is making the situation worse. Like there is, he is not looking for common ground. He is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:46.640
    | text      = not trying to find, you know, areas where we can make progress. He is so in division.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:53.039
    | text      = But I think there's a lot of media that helps to show people what they have in common. That's,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:20:59.279
    | text      = that's like, that's the area that I'm more interested in is what do I have in common
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:03.119
    | text      = with people that are perceived to be my opponent? Maybe not all the way to Alex Jones direction,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:08.960
    | text      = but, but that's the difference, right? It's like, it's good faith actors versus bad faith actors.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:13.680
    | text      = What you're getting at a lot with Fox is there's an assumption and I'm not disagreeing with it,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:17.520
    | text      = but there's an assumption in your comments that they are bad faith actors, right? That they
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:21.840
    | text      = know that they are lying. They know they are doing damage. Yes. And I'm not claiming that's not
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:27.600
    | text      = entirely false or whatever, but like there are also people at Fox. I know some of these sources
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:32.720
    | text      = at Fox who are truly a genuinely pro-Trump who believe his policies are the right ones who
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:38.720
    | text      = believe X, Y, and Z, who think Fox is doing the right thing, who believe Fox is the fight harder
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:44.319
    | text      = for Trump's America. Like who like, and those are believers, believers. And I would argue that's a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:51.840
    | text      = good faith actor because at least I can meet him where he is. I agree with you. Yeah. The problem
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:21:59.039
    | text      = I think you cannot have a debate with a believer. What are you talking about? We can have it as I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:03.760
    | text      = would get discussion. Yes. You can have a discussion. Yes. That is true. We're coming up
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:08.560
    | text      = against the bad faith actors. That is the issue. It's like the bad faith actors who are, they're
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:14.159
    | text      = just nihilists, right? They just want to watch the world burn. They'll say anything, do anything,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:17.760
    | text      = whatever. That's, that's where I have more scorn. Hmm. I mean, then I'd like, I have this problem
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:27.039
    | text      = with that argument every time, because it's always applicable. That kind of like, Oh, you know,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:33.039
    | text      = not every, not all bad apples argument. Right. My, my question then just always comes back to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:39.840
    | text      = then like, why don't the rest of you fucking descend upon them? Like Ravens on somebody who
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:45.039
    | text      = talks shit like that should be your job. Okay. So fine. We all know that there are good faith
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:50.720
    | text      = actors. Why aren't all of you dog piling on top of Jesse waters? And I mean that physically,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:22:56.880
    | text      = I mean, I want, I want you out there. I want Lawrence O'Donnell out there. I want Rachel Maddow.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:03.039
    | text      = I want them landing on top of these people. Do you know what I mean? Like, is it not your
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:08.479
    | text      = responsibility to police your own? So I, I think the idea that Rachel Maddow would view Jesse
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:16.800
    | text      = waters as one of her own is, is, is hilarious. Um, I do very similarly, but, but she would,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:24.960
    | text      = she would, she, she, she, she would laugh at you and say, I, she would say she is a scholar and
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:31.119
    | text      = author, a journalist and a broadcaster. And he is a paid monkey. Like he's a performer. He is a,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:38.399
    | text      = he is, he reads other people's script. Like she, for example, she writes her copy of her scripts.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:43.439
    | text      = He, he reads someone else's I'm just, I'm just, you know, I'm just telling you that yes, they are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:47.520
    | text      = on, they are on channels close to each other on the cable dial. That is basically the only thing
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:52.000
    | text      = they have in common. Um, the, I think you're getting, you're, you're, you're, you're,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:23:56.960
    | text      = you're getting to something I think interesting about the, the media kind of media accountability
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:02.159
    | text      = and holding people accountable and, um, how seriously I take this stuff. And I think that's
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:06.800
    | text      = been a problem. I think it's been a problem over the years that the, the national news media will
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:12.000
    | text      = focus intently on what Marjorie Taylor green is saying. For example, a freshmen Congresswoman
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:16.319
    | text      = was relative, a little power, but not on what Sean Hannity saying, who is, I would argue more
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:21.920
    | text      = powerful, more influential. Like this is something that I started to realize in my ears at CNN,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:27.039
    | text      = when I would get emails from lawmakers, text messages from lawmakers, trying to get on my
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:32.319
    | text      = television, the television show that I hosted, I try not to say my show because it's your show.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:37.199
    | text      = And I started to realize, I started to realize like there's a power dynamic here, right? That
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:44.239
    | text      = they recognize that I'm the one with the pulpit every week. And I was on for only an hour and all
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:51.039
    | text      = that, but like, yeah, there is something really warped where Sean Hannity has more influence in
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:24:56.560
    | text      = the average GOP lawmaker. And so, but, but he's not covered that way. It's not, it doesn't get
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:00.960
    | text      = new that kind of news coverage. So I would say there should be more news coverage of what these
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:06.960
    | text      = opinion people are saying of what Jesse waters is claiming of the conspiracy theories they are
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:11.279
    | text      = promoting. There needs to be more fact checking and coverage of it. You're, you're coming at it
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:15.359
    | text      = from like a, like, take them out. I'm just coming at it from a let's take it seriously.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:20.159
    | text      = Well, I mean, that's, that's kind of the air we go. That's the last question that I have for you
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:25.520
    | text      = and kind of the place that I want to end it is those three obviously where we began because I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:30.319
    | text      = a lit guy. There are three C's, you know, that civil criminal and canceling kind of thing. And
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:37.600
    | text      = I think of the Fox news verdict, I think of Alex and I think of Tucker and I think of all of these
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:42.720
    | text      = people. And I think civilly has anybody been held accountable. Alex is spending $90,000 a month.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:52.319
    | text      = Now will true accountability come hopefully, but as it stands, there's no accountability.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:25:58.000
    | text      = If you can still spend 90 grand a month, that's just, that's my rule. That's my rule in life
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:02.479
    | text      = until, until you spend at least as little money as me per month, right. Then you have not been
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:09.039
    | text      = held accountable. And what's the latest with him? How, how are the Sandy Hook families trying to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:14.399
    | text      = call the money back? Well, we're the most recent two settlement disputes have been around 85
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:20.079
    | text      = million and 55 million. So all again, that 1.5 billion that's not accountability. And the same
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:27.039
    | text      = is true for the Fox news settlement. You know, like I understand that they are going to pay that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:31.600
    | text      = money, but Fox news also has an insurance company that's going to came out of insurance and they
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:37.520
    | text      = have this, that's going to pay this. And really they have a profit margin of like $1 billion a
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:42.880
    | text      = year. So it's not like they lose money. It's that they make less money this year. You know what I'm
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:47.920
    | text      = saying? And then they'll spread that out over time. They'll deduct that on their taxes. Frankly,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:52.800
    | text      = this judgment will wind up saving them money in the long run. I don't know. I don't know about
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:26:57.680
    | text      = that. I know, I know, but, but you understand my point as far as accountability is concerned.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:02.479
    | text      = Yes, this is not accountability, but, but well, the, but these are the structures
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:06.479
    | text      = that we have in place. These are the options that we have. And to me, it does feel the courtroom is
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:12.079
    | text      = the, has been the most productive, you know, in terms of format forum for accountability.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:18.479
    | text      = Right. So then we've got civil, then we go to canceling and that's ostensibly the media's job.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:23.760
    | text      = You know, that is where the media gets together. We all dog pile on some asshole to tweet something
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:31.199
    | text      = before they got on a plane one time. But the media doesn't get together. I mean, but that's the,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:36.000
    | text      = this is it. There is the, what's the ball gets rolling. The ball gets rolling. You know what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:40.319
    | text      = I'm saying? Sure. Yeah, sure. There's yes. But I, I just, I, I pushed back cause I don't want to
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:46.720
    | text      = like give Alex Jones fodder for conspiracy theories. Obviously, obviously that's why,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:52.159
    | text      = again, that's why you talk to a clown is because people don't take me too seriously.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:27:56.560
    | text      = There was once like some random blogger who wrote like Brian Stelter talked about the death of
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:00.960
    | text      = democracy and quoted the same book on the same day as an MSNBC host who gave them the book.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:07.039
    | text      = I'll follow that one. I was like, I was like the library gave me the book. Like, well,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:11.199
    | text      = what do you think? Like you think we get together for these meetings to,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:14.399
    | text      = to plan which books we're going to cite on the air? Like there's just, it's happening now with
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:18.560
    | text      = Taylor Swift, Vivek Ramaswamy, and these people out there with these crazy conspiracy theories
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:23.119
    | text      = that Taylor Swift is a psy-op that she's planted by the CIA to influence 2024 election. Like what
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:29.119
    | text      = these people have too much time on their hands. If William said it to Shannon Sharpe, I believe it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:34.319
    | text      = That's just where I don't know how to help people like not see ghosts. Right. Well,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:43.439
    | text      = and, but that's the next price. This is how I felt with the Gitmo thing. Civil, canceling,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:48.560
    | text      = and then criminal. It is impossible to hold these people accountable criminally,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:28:52.960
    | text      = even when they commit a crime like Ron DeSantis did. So please, if we're talking about these three
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:00.239
    | text      = levels of accountability, I feel like your book has definitively proven there's no way to hold
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:05.439
    | text      = powerful people accountable. I don't think that's the takeaway at all. I
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:10.239
    | text      = distanced myself from your conclusions. I think the Trump trials are going to be really interesting.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:16.640
    | text      = I'm interested in those as to criminal trials. I'll tell you, I put my money where my mouth is.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:22.079
    | text      = I bet 500 bucks on Nikki Haley, because I think that ultimately Trump will be taken off of enough
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:27.840
    | text      = ballots to not be allowed to run. That's my bet. That's where I put my money on it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:32.319
    | text      = That's where you put me. Okay. So I, so you're saying the system's working then?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:37.279
    | text      = Yes, that's what I'm saying. The regime is working.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:42.079
    | text      = That's what that means. I'll take it.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:46.159
    | text      = I subscribed to the Harvey Milk slogan. You got to give them hope. You got to give them hope.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:51.119
    | text      = So I look around and I say, uh, the dominion settlement was a lot of money and yes,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:29:56.079
    | text      = Fox can afford it, but it was painful for them. And I look around and I say,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:00.720
    | text      = Tucker being canceled suggests that maybe kooky conspiracy theories are not quite as
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:06.239
    | text      = welcome at Fox as they were the week before he was on the, like, you know, like a little bit,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:10.239
    | text      = a little bit of hope, a little bit of hope here. Totally. Those, those are like, I understand that
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:15.840
    | text      = I'm, I'm an asshole. So it comes off as though I invalidate kind of what are very, very valid
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:20.479
    | text      = things that you, you know, that's, that's true. That's very true. And that's awesome.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:24.640
    | text      = And it's something that we should celebrate. You know, I'm just a person who's always going to be
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:28.239
    | text      = like cool, but why didn't you break his knees? You know, that's, that's where I live. Right.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:33.199
    | text      = Uh, so listen, your, your utopia sounds incredible and I hope you can get there someday. Hey,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:40.479
    | text      = if everybody has one eye, then I've done my job correctly and gotten revenge. Uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:46.319
    | text      = that's a great place to end it. Brian, thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:51.600
    | text      = This has been a delight. Uh, your book network of lies. Could you please, uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:30:56.479
    | text      = advertise it up again for the, uh, video viewers. Thank you for having me on this was, uh,
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:31:02.560
    | text      = this was a challenge in the best way possible. Why does everybody keep saying that about me?
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:31:10.079
    | text      = Well, thank you so much. And you have a great day. Thank you. You too.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:31:14.000
    | text      = Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.
}}

{{TranscriptBlock
    | name      = Unknown Speaker
    | timestamp = 01:31:16.000
    | text      = Well, Alex, I'm a person in color. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.
}}

[[Category:Transcripts]]